NationStates Jolt Archive

That's precisely what I told my grandparents this morning. "There's no longer an excuse to not go back home..."

In a law approved by José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero's government on December 10, 2008, the Spanish government will begin reparations to those who had to flee Spain during Franco's dictatorship (1935-1975) and thier families (be them sons/daughters or grandchildren).

http://www.mpr.es/NR/rdonlyres/F96AF77D-AC1D-4C06-90D4-FCA456FD13D6/77134/ProyectoleyguerracivilaprobadoporCM.pdf

One of the things Franco did to those who left Spain during the Civil War was to strip them of their nationality, of their identity. This law gives them that back. This law returns to them their heriatge, not only to them, but their descendents. I happen to think this is a great law, and it will heal and bring closure to a lot of Spanish families still in exile.

I just don't know why my grandparents won't see that. So, NSG, what do you think about this law or about similar laws as this one?

It could end up a problem like Germany's repatriation laws.

It could end up a problem like Germany's repatriation laws.

Possibly, but not very likely.
The equivalent to the German law would be Spain offering the whole of Middle- and South America Spanish citizenship ...

I can't see anything wrong with the law, but I don't really know how many ex-pats we're talking about. And I believe that considering the time that has passed, a lot will have found roots elsewhere by now.

Possibly, but not very likely.
The equivalent to the German law would be Spain offering the whole of Middle- and South America Spanish citizenship ...

First one needs to prove one has Spanish blood and second, one must be either Catalonian or Gallego and prove their granparents fled Spain due to Franco's persecution. The only thing one can do is apply for a Spanish passport and, in some adverse cases, the government will also compensate monetarily-wise.

I can't see anything wrong with the law, but I don't really know how many ex-pats we're talking about. And I believe that considering the time that has passed, a lot will have found roots elsewhere by now.

The law is mainly aimed at bringing back the Catalonian and Gallego descendents back to Spain. To give them back their heritage, in some way. That's why one must prove one has Spanish blood, not more than 2 generations old.

so when you talked to your grandparents about this this morning, what did they say?

so when you talked to your grandparents about this this morning, what did they say?

I recieved the evil eye. I don't think they want to go back. Wait, no, let me rephrase that. They do not want to go back.

I recieved the evil eye. I don't think they want to go back. Wait, no, let me rephrase that. They do not want to go back.

so they still have an excuse...

at least the government is extending a peace offering tho.

Possibly, but not very likely.
The equivalent to the German law would be Spain offering the whole of Middle- and South America Spanish citizenship ...

I can't see anything wrong with the law, but I don't really know how many ex-pats we're talking about. And I believe that considering the time that has passed, a lot will have found roots elsewhere by now.

I was so excited when I heard about the German right of return! But my family left too early I guess (1929, I think). :(

I recieved the evil eye. I don't think they want to go back. Wait, no, let me rephrase that. They do not want to go back.
if they dont want to go back, let them be. if they dont want to go back because they dont feel that they will be welcome in spain anymore but you know that they would love to go back, bring it up again after a few days.

so they still have an excuse...

at least the government is extending a peace offering tho.

Yes, in as much as I want to think this is the true chance to bring them home, I had my hopes dashed. I was with the Spanish consul and with some representatives to the US Department of State about it. They both say the same thing: yes, the passports will be given as well as the reparations, if it applies, but if my grandparents don't want to go back top Spain, neither the US nor the Spanish governments can do a thing.:(

ask them to visit you in spain? they cant not go to your wedding! that may change their mind. if not, let them be.

if they dont want to go back, let them be. if they dont want to go back because they dont feel that they will be welcome in spain anymore but you know that they would love to go back, bring it up again after a few days.

We may have to do that. It's very understabdable. They've been away since 1949. Spain has changed a lot since then. Although a great part of the family is still in Spain, my grandparents have grown roots in the Americas. But thewy have been ailing as of late and it's getting increasingly difficult to hop on a plane and travel to check on them.

ask them to visit you in spain? they cant not go to your wedding! that may change their mind. if not, let them be.

They won't even do that. The country holds too many painful memories. I think we just need to drop the matter.

Yes, in as much as I want to think this is the true chance to bring them home, I had my hopes dashed. I was with the Spanish consul and with some representatives to the US Department of State about it. They both say the same thing: yes, the passports will be given as well as the reparations, if it applies, but if my grandparents don't want to go back top Spain, neither the US nor the Spanish governments can do a thing.:(

they may have bad memories there. you need to help them create/remember good memories.

try asking them how they met. ;)

they may have bad memories there. you need to help them create/remember good memories.

try asking them how they met. ;)

Heh! That may help. But I'll drop it for the time being.

they may have bad memories there. you need to help them create/remember good memories.

try asking them how they met. ;)

Unless they met during their harrowing flight from Franco's persecution... :/

Unless they met during their harrowing flight from Franco's persecution... :/

Nah, they met a year before Franco's coup d'etat.

That's precisely what I told my grandparents this morning. "There's no longer an excuse to not go back home..."

In a law approved by José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero's government on December 10, 2008, the Spanish government will begin reparations to those who had to flee Spain during Franco's dictatorship (1935-1975) and thier families (be them sons/daughters or grandchildren).

http://www.mpr.es/NR/rdonlyres/F96AF77D-AC1D-4C06-90D4-FCA456FD13D6/77134/ProyectoleyguerracivilaprobadoporCM.pdf

One of the things Franco did to those who left Spain during the Civil War was to strip them of their nationality, of their identity. This law gives them that back. This law returns to them their heriatge, not only to them, but their descendents. I happen to think this is a great law, and it will heal and bring closure to a lot of Spanish families still in exile.

I just don't know why my grandparents won't see that. So, NSG, what do you think about this law or about similar laws as this one?
Maybe they feel like, "You took it away? FUCK YOU, we don't WANT it back!" *spits*
But Puerto Rico's a nice place too -- maybe they just feel that they're too old to uproot themselves again when they're living in a beautiful place.

Maybe they feel like, "You took it away? FUCK YOU, we don't WANT it back!" *spits*
But Puerto Rico's a nice place too -- maybe they just feel that they're too old to uproot themselves again when they're living in a beautiful place.

Yes, that's precisely it. They grew roots in PR, my uncle married a Puertorrican, I have cousing living here, getting married here (next week). And yes, Puerto Rico opened it's arms to them when they most needed it. They are home here, not in Spain. I am sad, I would like to think they're closer, but maybe I need to forget about what I want and cave in to what they need and are used to.

...have you thought about tricking them? >_>

this just sounds like a clever plot to fill all those empty homes that have been built in Spain isn't it!

...have you thought about tricking them? >_>

I can't. But I have thought about it.

I can't. But I have thought about it.

Sure you can. start of with a "hey, for my B-day, why not have the family come over and spend the weekend with me here."

then...

"Why not have a family christmas here in spain next year!"

"hey, I'm going for a week vacation... can one of you watch my apartment while I'm gone?"

etc... :p

Sure you can. start of with a "hey, for my B-day, why not have the family come over and spend the weekend with me here."

then...

"Why not have a family christmas here in spain next year!"

"hey, I'm going for a week vacation... can one of you watch my apartment while I'm gone?"

etc... :p

LOL! I could do that, but then I would feel like crap. Besides that, my grandparents are what we call "zorros viellus" (old foxes). They will see my ruse in an instant and get pissy. :tongue:

I think the subject will need to be approached at a latter time. I'll be with them for a year so. I guess there's plenty of time.

LOL! I could do that, but then I would feel like crap. Besides that, my grandparents are what we call "zorros viellus" (old foxes). They will see my ruse in an instant and get pissy. :tongue:

I have a tranquilizer gun you can borrow :wink:

If they want to stay there, let them be. Its clear no matter what spain does they dont want to go back.

So you'll be in PR for a year?
:) Enjoy.

That's precisely what I told my grandparents this morning. "There's no longer an excuse to not go back home..."

In a law approved by José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero's government on December 10, 2008, the Spanish government will begin reparations to those who had to flee Spain during Franco's dictatorship (1935-1975) and thier families (be them sons/daughters or grandchildren).

http://www.mpr.es/NR/rdonlyres/F96AF77D-AC1D-4C06-90D4-FCA456FD13D6/77134/ProyectoleyguerracivilaprobadoporCM.pdf

One of the things Franco did to those who left Spain during the Civil War was to strip them of their nationality, of their identity. This law gives them that back. This law returns to them their heriatge, not only to them, but their descendents. I happen to think this is a great law, and it will heal and bring closure to a lot of Spanish families still in exile.

I just don't know why my grandparents won't see that. So, NSG, what do you think about this law or about similar laws as this one?

Hi Nanatsu no Tsuki. I think it includes any spaniard descendants as well. According to the Spanish consultate in Cuba at least 100,000 Cubans have requested spaniard citizenship. The Spanish government estimates 150,000 Cubans will emigrate to España La Madre Patria or become Spanish citizens over these next two years based on this law. According to Spanish government census records their are a total of about 92,583 Cubans of Spaniard birth or descent in España.

Sometimes I wish Cuba would have remained the ever faithful island. We would have gone through the Franco dictatorship and been a loyal Spanish democratic province today all other factors of history beign neutral.

You should ask them at least to pay a visit to Franco's grave for a good spitting...

Or do so yourself. I thought of starting a grassroot "spit-on-graves-of-dictators-and-proppers-up-day" thread but figured it might be iffy, so... *Shrugs*

Hi Nanatsu no Tsuki. I think it includes any spaniard descendants as well. According to the Spanish consultate in Cuba at least 100,000 Cubans have requested spaniard citizenship. The Spanish government estimates 150,000 Cubans will emigrate to España La Madre Patria or become Spanish citizens over these next two years based on this law. According to Spanish government census records their are a total of about 92,583 Cubans of Spaniard birth or descent in España.

Sometimes I wish Cuba would have remained the ever faithful island. We would have gone through the Franco dictatorship and been a loyal Spanish democratic province today all other factors of history beign neutral.

Sí. Es el plan de la Memoria Histórica. Lo que el gobierno quiere es devolverle a los decendientes de familias españolas (hijos y nietos) que fueron desplazadas por la dictadura franquista su identidad española y su herencia. Estas fueron las primeras cosas, aparte de la dignidad, que se le quitó a los españoles que dejaron la Península por culpa de la dictadura.

Pero el proyecto de ley sólo aplica por un período determinado de tiempo y el matriculante tiene que probar, sin razón de dudas, que es hijo/a o niet/a de españoles (primera o segunda generación) que sufrieron a causa de Franco. No aplica a todos los decendientes. Tampoco se quiere de que ahora, toda persona que haya tenido antepasados españoles pretenda, se le otorgue pasaporte español o se le indemnize. El plazo de aplicación es de 6 meses a un año, específicamnete cubriendo a el desplazamiento tanto de catalanes cómo de vascos y gallegos, aunque aplica a otras denominaciones.

Lo del caso de Cuba es otra cosa. Que no dudo hay muchos decendientes directos, y va a haber mucho cubano que podrá tener derecho a este pasaporte y a este proyecto de ley, pero tampoco es que España va a abrirle las puertas a toda la hermana Isla. Sólo se aceptarán los memorandos que prueben la persona o personas peticionarias son hijos o nietos de españoles en el exilio (primera y segunda generación), particularmente aquellos que dejan el país entre 1935-1940.

El caso de mis abuelos es más bien que sientan que España, apesar de que les vé partir en el 1949, sigue añorándoles. A mi madre y a mi nos gustaría tenerlos en casa, cerca de la familia. Claro, que ellos quieran, sin lugar a dudas, regresar a su natal Catalunya o su casa de Asturias, ya, vamos, es otra cosa.

The leftist intellectuals who fled from Franco contributed mightily to the intellectual life of Latin American universities, including in Mexico. I think some would be sad to see their children, friends, and family members head back over to Spain, as they are now so integral to the fabric of these nations.

The leftist intellectuals who fled from Franco contributed mightily to the intellectual life of Latin American universities, including in Mexico. I think some would be sad to see their children, friends, and family members head back over to Spain, as they are now so integral to the fabric of these nations.

But they are also important to the future of Spain. They were integral of its past. I don't think, though, that entire generations will go back to Spain. These are families, that in many ways, have already grown roots in thier adoptive countries. That's what has happened to my grandparents. Puerto Rico became home a long time ago to them.

I was so excited when I heard about the German right of return! But my family left too early I guess (1929, I think). :(

Are you kidding? There's people whose families left some 400 years ago that still can ge German citizenship if they want to...

It's one of the most stupid laws ever.

Are you kidding? There's people whose families left some 400 years ago that still can ge German citizenship if they want to...

It's one of the most stupid laws ever.

Indeed, which is not the case with this law passed by Zapatero's government. The people who have the right to "Memoria historica" are the children and grandchildren of Spaniards who had to leave Spain between 1935-1949, due to persecution by Franco's people. No one else.