NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/28/AR2009022800170.html

Of significant importance to me:
In higher education, legislators restored most of the proposed cuts to public colleges and universities with federal stimulus money while warning school officials to not raise tuition more than five percent in the fall.

How are your state legislatures doing in the wake of the recession and state budgets everywhere having to be cut?

Is English, and therefore not affected.

EDIT: While not by this specifically, obviously we have a recession as well.

Hundreds of people from my district are losing their jobs, class sizes are going up, science, computer and P.E. teachers are being cut, librarians and counselors are getting their already short hours cut, money we were promised last year for school supplies has been frozen, and the teachers who still have jobs are taking a pay cut.

I heard from a friend of mine that a middle school up by where I go to university had actually run out of paper for the rest of the school year, and the school itself has no money so they can't buy any more. Teachers are having to buy their own paper to print out tests and worksheets and the like!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/28/AR2009022800170.html

Of significant importance to me:


How are your state legislatures doing in the wake of the recession and state budgets everywhere having to be cut?
We already tax people that can't do math, i.e.
Georgia has seen fit to _encourage_ business...It is called the "Jobs, Opportunity and Business Success Act of 2009" (HB 481 and HB 482).

The bills contain tax credits for businesses that hire unemployed people, elimination of the State Inventory Tax on all Georgia businesses, elimination of the Sales Tax Deposit, and a gradual elimination of the Corporate Income Tax.

Unlike the Federal government, we know from where the recovery must come...

Georgia has seen fit to _encourage_ business...It is called the "Jobs, Opportunity and Business Success Act of 2009" (HB 481 and HB 482).

The bills contain tax credits for businesses that hire unemployed people, elimination of the State Inventory Tax on all Georgia businesses, elimination of the Sales Tax Deposit, and a gradual elimination of the Corporate Income Tax.

Unlike the Federal government, we know from where the recovery must come...

Aren't most new hirings unemployed people:confused:

-snip-

Unlike the Federal government, we know from where the recovery must come...

Because that totally worked for the last eight years, right? :rolleyes:

Big business is the problem, not the solution. Tax credits will only make them save money, not spend it - especially during an economy like this. It'd be idiotic to spend money now.

I heard from a friend of mine that a middle school up by where I go to university had actually run out of paper for the rest of the school year, and the school itself has no money so they can't buy any more. Teachers are having to buy their own paper to print out tests and worksheets and the like!

My school already worked out the packets of paper we can use per day for the rest of the year, just so that doesn't happen. We've all cut back a lot. The annoying thing is that the school newsletters and other such crap are printed on the same paper, so we do run out sometimes. Also, all different colors of paper used to be available at most schools--now if you want anything other than white you have to supply it. We don't even get staples. :/

We already tax people that can't do math, i.e.
Georgia has seen fit to _encourage_ business...It is called the "Jobs, Opportunity and Business Success Act of 2009" (HB 481 and HB 482).

The bills contain tax credits for businesses that hire unemployed people, elimination of the State Inventory Tax on all Georgia businesses, elimination of the Sales Tax Deposit, and a gradual elimination of the Corporate Income Tax.

Unlike the Federal government, we know from where the recovery must come...

I hope it works too, because one less state in a mess would be nice and besides, if it doesn't the rest of us have to drag Georgia back out of the bottomless pit. So I hope it works.... against all logic.

Hundreds of people from my district are losing their jobs, class sizes are going up, science, computer and P.E. teachers are being cut, librarians and counselors are getting their already short hours cut, money we were promised last year for school supplies has been frozen, and the teachers who still have jobs are taking a pay cut.

Because the first thing we need to do to solve the problem is make sure our children have an even worse education.

I approve.

I hope it works too, because one less state in a mess would be nice and besides, if it doesn't the rest of us have to drag Georgia back out of the bottomless pit. So I hope it works.... against all logic.
Well, Michigan has proven that raising taxes doesn't do much good...

But think about that case for a bit. What happens when taxes are raised on a business? I can think of a couple that just jump out.
First, business has higher costs to cover. Either raise prices or cut costs. Cutting costs is pretty easily done with a layoff. That's in addition to any layoffs that reduced demand might have required.

No economic stimulation there.

Now, we see the numbers of unemployed rise. Do they pay income taxes? I'm not sure that unemployment is taxable, but they're certainly not paying at the same rate as when they were employed by private industry.

Not much economic stimulus there, either.

If the company is big enough to have offshore profits, those profits will stay offshore. Why re-invest them in the US, if they're only going to be taxed at 35%? So offshore profits stay offshore. What's more, new business won't relocate to an area with higher taxes. What incentive do they have for that?

No economic stimulus from this.

All, in all, it looks like a bad idea to continue with high taxes on businesses. Didn't Ireland learn something to that effect back in the late '80s? Aren't they sitting in pretty good shape right now?

Because that totally worked for the last eight years, right? :rolleyes:

Big business is the problem, not the solution. Tax credits will only make them save money, not spend it - especially during an economy like this. It'd be idiotic to spend money now.
You aren't used to thinking things through very far, are you? What incentive does a business have to keep prices high? None, if they can undercut their competition. With reduced tax burdens, they can do just that.

There's another name for those reduced prices... Economic stimulus.

Well, Michigan has proven that raising taxes doesn't do much good...

But think about that case for a bit. What happens when taxes are raised on a business? I can think of a couple that just jump out.
First, business has higher costs to cover. Either raise prices or cut costs. Cutting costs is pretty easily done with a layoff. That's in addition to any layoffs that reduced demand might have required.

No economic stimulation there.

Now, we see the numbers of unemployed rise. Do they pay income taxes? I'm not sure that unemployment is taxable, but they're certainly not paying at the same rate as when they were employed by private industry.

Not much economic stimulus there, either.

If the company is big enough to have offshore profits, those profits will stay offshore. Why re-invest them in the US, if they're only going to be taxed at 35%? So offshore profits stay offshore. What's more, new business won't relocate to an area with higher taxes. What incentive do they have for that?

No economic stimulus from this.

All, in all, it looks like a bad idea to continue with high taxes on businesses. Didn't Ireland learn something to that effect back in the late '80s? Aren't they sitting in pretty good shape right now?

At the other end of that argument, who spends the largest portion of their incomes on goods and services? The lower and middle classes. Lowering business taxes will not put more money in the hands of those most likely to spend it and if they aren't buying, businesses aren't selling. Without sales, not only do they need fewer employees, but they have to cut costs which also leads to layoffs.

It's possible that like so many things in life, the solution is a happy medium. However, considering the likelihood of businesses roiling with heavy debts and poor credit holding on to any increased revenue due to lower taxes rather than reinvesting it for possibly years, it seems to me that the place to start is to increase profits by increasing consumption. Then, as demand for goods begins to create revenue, a tax cut can magnify the recovery effect and lead to the revenue necessary to increase production to meet increased demand. It's like a domino effect. I read this somewhere, I can't remember where but the writer made it clear that the ideologies of Democrats and Republicans would do far more good in tandem than either would ever accomplish alone.

I heard we just got tax cuts proposed around here that would total to $15 a week for the average income earner. It might sound small but thats pretty noticeable over time.

At the other end of that argument, who spends the largest portion of their incomes on goods and services? The lower and middle classes. Lowering business taxes will not put more money in the hands of those most likely to spend it and if they aren't buying, businesses aren't selling. Without sales, not only do they need fewer employees, but they have to cut costs which also leads to layoffs.

It's possible that like so many things in life, the solution is a happy medium. However, considering the likelihood of businesses roiling with heavy debts and poor credit holding on to any increased revenue due to lower taxes rather than reinvesting it for possibly years, it seems to me that the place to start is to increase profits by increasing consumption. Then, as demand for goods begins to create revenue, a tax cut can magnify the recovery effect and lead to the revenue necessary to increase production to meet increased demand. It's like a domino effect. I read this somewhere, I can't remember where but the writer made it clear that the ideologies of Democrats and Republicans would do far more good in tandem than either would ever accomplish alone.
I agree completely with the idea that consumer confidence needs to be boosted. What will it take to make someone go out and buy a car, house, or even just a new refrigerator? I think it needs to be more than a one time payment of a few hundred dollars.

Wouldn't price cuts across the board do more to stimulate consumption and consumer confidence than a tax refund/credit/reduction that only amounts to a thousand dollars, or so? Last year's stimulus check about $1200 at the max? Most used it to pay down debt.

And I also agree that some compromises in the Congress would probably help consumer confidence grow. I wouldn't mind seeing a Congress that was more interested in governing that it was in being re-elected, either. Now there's a pipe dream.

I agree completely with the idea that consumer confidence needs to be boosted. What will it take to make someone go out and buy a car, house, or even just a new refrigerator? I think it needs to be more than a one time payment of a few hundred dollars.

Wouldn't price cuts across the board do more to stimulate consumption and consumer confidence than a tax refund/credit/reduction that only amounts to a thousand dollars, or so? Last year's stimulus check about $1200 at the max? Most used it to pay down debt.

And I also agree that some compromises in the Congress would probably help consumer confidence grow. I wouldn't mind seeing a Congress that was more interested in governing that it was in being re-elected, either. Now there's a pipe dream.

Well, I think Barack Obama is conducive to the idea and intelligent enough to be adaptive. For some reason, I don't think much of the Congress on either side of the aisle are as.... flexible.