NationStates Jolt Archive

I'm not talking about a single sitting, I think most of us would be able to answer that question relatively easily. I'm talking about a sustained period of times, drinking again and again.

The reason I'm asking is because during the summer, we would often go out after work and have a few drinks. This became more and more frequent as time progressed, and by the end I would have had more than 200 beers over a period of less than 90 days, plus an assortment of other stuff. Now, I'm relatively confident that biologically I should be able to walk away without much damage and I never actually crossed the line from fun to tired/sick (I've learned how to drink some time ago, or at least that dimension of it).

But joking comments along the lines of "you're going to be an alcoholic" made me think. Is alcoholism just a matter of the reasons you're drinking for? Does one need to be unhappy, stressed or depressed for sustained drinking to be a problem? Or can one be a happy, hard-working and functioning alcoholic?

I for one decided that, purely in the interest of science of course, I'm going to see how easy I can take it for the next few weeks, along the lines of "just say no" when people invite me to have a drink. I don't think it will be a problem.

But yeah, how much regular drinking crosses the line?

don't they say 1.5 glasses of wine a day lowers chance of heart diseases?
assuming one glass of wine equals one of what your drinking.
It looks like you've barely gone over 2 glasses of wine per day.

Only when it starts to interfere with your other responsibilities and activities. I don't think it matters how much you drink, just whether or not it has a negative effect on the rest of your life. For some people, that might be 1 drink per day or 10...the quantity is not inherently relevant, it's the various effects it has on your life.

For some people, one drink is too much.

For others, there will never be enough.

to much FOR what? it takes quite a bit to wash a car for example.

"regular drinking" is itself "too much" for me, as emparing my judgment never gratifies anything, any more then excitement or trying to impress anyone, which don't either.

don't they say 1.5 glasses of wine a day lowers chance of heart diseases?
assuming one glass of wine equals one of what your drinking.
It looks like you've barely gone over 2 glasses of wine per day.
I think that's about other stuff in wine rather than the alcohol. 2 glasses of beer a day just gives you a gut. :wink:

Anyways, these beers were rarely with proper food and more social than your usual glass of wine with dinner. I don't actually think I crossed any lines, but I was wondering whether they exist and where they might be.

Only when it starts to interfere with your other responsibilities and activities. I don't think it matters how much you drink, just whether or not it has a negative effect on the rest of your life. For some people, that might be 1 drink per day or 10...the quantity is not inherently relevant, it's the various effects it has on your life.
So some hotshot trader who ends up going to the bar every night and downing serious amounts of alcohol is fine if the can be back to his successful self the next morning every day?

So some hotshot trader who ends up going to the bar every night and downing serious amounts of alcohol is fine if the can be back to his successful self the next morning every day?
The question to ask is, can he NOT down the alcohol everyday? If he misses it for a day, say due to working late or a social function, how does he handle it? Shrugging and saying, "Oh well," is probably a good sign. Getting very irritable about it is not.

if you have to ask . . .

I'm not talking about a single sitting, I think most of us would be able to answer that question relatively easily. I'm talking about a sustained period of times, drinking again and again.

The reason I'm asking is because during the summer, we would often go out after work and have a few drinks. This became more and more frequent as time progressed, and by the end I would have had more than 200 beers over a period of less than 90 days, plus an assortment of other stuff. Now, I'm relatively confident that biologically I should be able to walk away without much damage and I never actually crossed the line from fun to tired/sick (I've learned how to drink some time ago, or at least that dimension of it).

But joking comments along the lines of "you're going to be an alcoholic" made me think. Is alcoholism just a matter of the reasons you're drinking for? Does one need to be unhappy, stressed or depressed for sustained drinking to be a problem? Or can one be a happy, hard-working and functioning alcoholic?

I for one decided that, purely in the interest of science of course, I'm going to see how easy I can take it for the next few weeks, along the lines of "just say no" when people invite me to have a drink. I don't think it will be a problem.

But yeah, how much regular drinking crosses the line?
That's a tough question. But first off, how many people have drunk 200 beers in 90 days?

Then, what would happen if you decided against having alcohol at the social get-together but still participated otherwise? Would that change anything? Or would you consider the social event as some sort of excuse to drink more than you usually would?

I think it's good that you've posed the questions you did - especially to yourself. Self-reflection is always important. I know that there were some times during which not a single day went by without having alcohol in some form or another. Then there's times during which I didn't drink anything at all.

The transition from happy, hard-working and functioning alcohol drinker to unhappy, not-so hard-working alcoholic can be very subtle.

Reminds me of
"Hast Du Probleme mit Alkohol?"
"Nein, nur ohne!"

Anyway, as long as you don't overdo it - and your body will give you hints that you do or did - Hoch die Tassen!
don't they say 1.5 glasses of wine a day lowers chance of heart diseases?
assuming one glass of wine equals one of what your drinking.
It looks like you've barely gone over 2 glasses of wine per day.
Actually, it's 0.2l red wine for men, 0.1l for women (white wine doesn't have the antioxidants; you could also drink red grape juice for the same amount).
That's about one bottle of beer for a male, less for a female.

Any alcohol that you drink in addition to that rather small amount is not to your benefit and actually undoes any advantage that drinking alcohol might have to your health.

That's a tough question. But first off, how many people have drunk 200 beers in 90 days?
*thinks*

The equivalent of that in spirits, maybe.

How ever much avoid me passing out in front of you and Alex

I believe a rule of thumb is that if you can't go 3 weeks without any alcohol whatsoever, you're an alcoholic.
Mind you, people tend to take to alcohol differently. I used to drink quite a lot when I was younger, usually on the weekends. However, I never got into the habit of drinking by myself at home. Given my personality, I thought it might well pose a danger of becoming addictive that way.
As it was, I went out with friends to drink, or not to drink depending on the situation. Nothing wrong with that. But if you're worried, just make sure to go a few weeks without booze now and then, just to be on the safe side.

Only when it starts to interfere with your other responsibilities and activities. I don't think it matters how much you drink, just whether or not it has a negative effect on the rest of your life. For some people, that might be 1 drink per day or 10...the quantity is not inherently relevant, it's the various effects it has on your life.

Pretty much this.

If and when it worries you - stop. If you choose not to continue when it is just a choice, you could be saving yourself from a world of pain and misery in the future.

The worst that could happen from stopping is you miss the taste once in a while. And even then, an occasional drink won't hurt you the way it would an actual alcoholic.

But joking comments along the lines of "you're going to be an alcoholic" made me think. Is alcoholism just a matter of the reasons you're drinking for?
No, it's a medical matter of physical addiction. The reasons tell if one is a drunkard, a drinking working man, or a booze gourmet.


Does one need to be unhappy, stressed or depressed for sustained drinking to be a problem? Or can one be a happy, hard-working and functioning alcoholic?
Right now, I work the hardest ever since college, and yet I drink more than ever. More than in college, I had a side job then so had no time to drink.

The reason is that the hardest work is that I do at home, and well... kinda a waste of time not to have a drink in the meantime. I get not so far above the driving limit BAC (at home, not in the car!), but consistently. That doesn't harm my performance, on the contrary, actually quantifiably improves it.

I think if I keep up this pace I'll get a mild degree of alcoholism, if I haven't already, which I might. But if so, I am/will be a hard working alcoholic, rather than a non-alcoholic drunkard.

Also, on a sidenote, I never, ever play Nationstates sober. [Posting on NSG isn't playing, I mean posting in NS RP, II or offsite RP forums.] After a long period of non-drinking, I'm struggling to get back in the game, with slow success.


But yeah, how much regular drinking crosses the line?
For me, for you, for a 250lbs 50 year old man, for an 80lbs 21 year old girl?

I think it's a matter of how much your body can take. You *can* exist in a state of perpetual drunkenness but thats not very healthy. But if you know your limit you can drink every day, just don't let it impair your daily life. 200 beers over 90 days really isn't all that much - only 2.2° beers a day. Thats less than I drink, but I admit I'm getting a bit of a beer gut.

I believe a rule of thumb is that if you can't go 3 weeks without any alcohol whatsoever, you're an alcoholic.
IDK, it seems like a very arbitrary rule. Why not 3 months? Why not 3 days?

If you can go clean for a week, you can for a month or a year or the life - the acute withdrawal phase starts quickly and the whole withdrawal ends in under 3 weeks. As far as IANAD understand, if you don't have the acute phase, you don't have the withdrawal syndrome, it won't suddenly start in two weeks. The rest is just psychological.

I can go teetotaling for 3 weeks, actually went for 6 months last year, although not voluntarily (Navy policy).
But I don't see why do the 3 week abstinence on my own - I'd much rather have a drink now and then, than drink hard for 3 weeks, then go dry for 3 weeks, then hard again.


Actually, it's 0.2l red wine for men, [...]
Any alcohol that you drink in addition to that rather small amount is not to your benefit and actually undoes any advantage that drinking alcohol might have to your health.
I doubt that, any link? It would seem that the drinking would cause damage to other systems, but not undo the benefit, as long as the health isn't a 0-100 health bar.

I think that's about other stuff in wine rather than the alcohol. 2 glasses of beer a day just gives you a gut. :wink:

Nope...it's the actual alcohol (red wine has the additional benefit of antioxidants and such, but any alcohol will do)

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alcohol/SC00024

I doubt that,
Your choice to do so.
any link?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/nutrition/healthy_alcohol.shtml
It would seem that the drinking would cause damage to other systems, but not undo the benefit, as long as the health isn't a 0-100 health bar.
Yeah, well, what good is an improvement in the risk of getting a heart attack or a stroke when at the same time your liver, brain, stomach, esophagus and pretty much every tissue of your body has to deal with the negative effects of being poisened, namely an increased risk of contracting cancer? It's still one body...

Your choice to do so.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/health/healthy_living/nutrition/healthy_alcohol.shtml

Yeah, well, what good is an improvement in the risk of getting a heart attack or a stroke when at the same time your liver, brain, stomach, esophagus and pretty much every tissue of your body has to deal with the negative effects of being poisened, namely an increased risk of contracting cancer? It's still one body...

Strangely enough, the benefit/costs of alcohol form a perfect bell curve, peaking right around 2 drinks a day (that is, 1 drink reduces the risk of heart disease and stroke just as much as 3 drinks increase the risk of alcohol related disease)

IMO alcoholism is about your relationship with alcohol. If I have a cocktail because I like them or because I'm having fun .....completely different than if I have one to "make the world go away".

Yes you can be a functioning alcoholic.....you'll know because when you quit drinking you'll quit functioning so well.

IDK, it seems like a very arbitrary rule. Why not 3 months? Why not 3 days?

If you can go clean for a week, you can for a month or a year or the life - the acute withdrawal phase starts quickly and the whole withdrawal ends in under 3 weeks. As far as IANAD understand, if you don't have the acute phase, you don't have the withdrawal syndrome, it won't suddenly start in two weeks. The rest is just psychological.

"Just psychological"? People don't need to be physically addicted to something to have a problem. Laying off booze for a few days and not having DTs does not mean you're not an alcoholic.

To address the OP: If you're worried you might have a problem, you might. Then again, you might not. I thought I was an alcoholic once. Turned out I was just 19. But I have a long, long family history of alcoholism. My father is an "atypical" alcoholic, in a sense, because he's not what you picture when you think of drunks blacking out and crashing cars and stuff. He rarely drank (he's recovering) to intoxication: he just drank a little, all the time. He probably drank far less than you do. Yet, when confronted with the negative impact his drinking had on his work and relationships, he clung to alcohol to nigh the bitter end, seeking treatment only when my mom threatened to leave. So even though he drank a normal amount, he was both psychologically and physically addicted to alcohol (and still is).

But yeah, how much regular drinking crosses the line?

Never.