NationStates Jolt Archive

:eek:

So let me get this straight.

General Motors received 13.4 billion from the government (taxes) to help the company. They promised to repay it before anything else.
They are not repaying. The government hired lawyers to get the money back (using more tax money). Chance of recovery=0.

Now General Motors wants another 16.6 billion, and for that support they will slash 47,000 jobs...:confused:

Anyone else feel like we're being duped?
Anyone else feel like giving the administrators at GM a good swift boot in the seat of the pants?



Maybe we should have given GM to Delorean when we had the chance.

link?

They said that on MSNBC earlier today....I felt the same way...

It seems a little retarded for a Company to promise success through laying off 47000 people...

Even if it does give them success I dont want them to have it if it means mass layoffs...

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200902172128DOWJONESDJONLINE000787_FORTUNE5.htm

It's pretty simple, nationalise General Motors, sack management and put in place a half-competent board. Then, take a fraction of the next multi-billion dollar "bail out" and directly employ people across the country. Heck, you could produce fleets of low-cost green cars whilst emlpoying blue collar workers in skilled labour

GM is made of so much fail....

It's pretty simple, nationalise General Motors, sack management and put in place a half-competent board. Then, take a fraction of the next multi-billion dollar "bail out" and directly employ people across the country. Heck, you could produce fleets of low-cost green cars whilst emlpoying blue collar workers in skilled labour

Isnt that what Germany did with Volkswagen?

Makes me regret giving my money to GM

It's pretty simple, nationalise General Motors, sack management and put in place a half-competent board. Then, take a fraction of the next multi-billion dollar "bail out" and directly employ people across the country. Heck, you could produce fleets of low-cost green cars whilst emlpoying blue collar workers in skilled labour

Thats only if you want to waste even more money.

Thats only if you want to waste even more money.

In for a pence, in for a pound.

Isnt that what Germany did with Volkswagen?

Not really

Makes me regret giving my money to GM

you will regret it more when they go belly up and you cant get parts and service.

Thats only if you want to waste even more money.

You're willing to sink billions into mortgages that are guaranteed to fail, but reducing unemployment (therefore increasing economic confidence, and momentum, as well as retail spending and property growth) and directly reducing the cost of living and carbon emissions is a bridge too far?

Here are the links i have...

Request for money and layoffs.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090217/ap_on_bi_ge/gm_bailout

No link for the lawyer issue. It was in my newspaper in an editorial by Andrew M. Grossman entitled "End loan handouts to Chrysler, GM."

What the fuck, GM? What the fuck?

Maybe if we had given them to Delorean we couldve gone back to 1995 and fix this shit, lol...

Maybe if we had given them to Delorean we couldve gone back to 1995 and fix this shit, lol...

then they would ahve went belly up after they get caught smuggling cocaine.

though on a side note apparently DMC is about to re open operations in Texas. if GMC goes belly up GMC might be able to gobble some of the market share.

Oh come on now. You whiners don't realize what it takes to run a company. Having to have money managers to keep track of your options and bonus. The costs to ride in your gulf jets. The cost of clothing and the mansions!

Liberal whiners all of you!

Oh come on now. You whiners don't realize what it takes to run a company. Having to have money managers to keep track of your options and bonus. The costs to ride in your gulf jets. The cost of clothing and the mansions!

Liberal whiners all of you!

don't forget personal sushi chef.

don't forget personal sushi chef.

Forgot that. I also forgot the white coated waiters like in the executive lunch room at one of my previous companies!

What did they spend it all on -- chewing gum?

I think this is a strong hint why GM is, I believe, the weakest of the Big Three. (And if they weren't, they are now.) Prop up their zombie corpse only long enough to find alternative employment for most of their workers, then let them go. Survival of the fittest, after all -- and those bozos are not fit to be fry cook trainees.

and those bozos are not fit to be fry cook trainees.Don't insult the fry cook profession, lady.

You're willing to sink billions into mortgages that are guaranteed to fail, but reducing unemployment (therefore increasing economic confidence, and momentum, as well as retail spending and property growth) and directly reducing the cost of living and carbon emissions is a bridge too far?

That's the definition of stimulus don'tyaknow? Who cares about simple little things like unemployment when the CEO of PNC can't afford another 50 million dollar mansion?

Don't insult the fry cook profession, lady.
Hey, I said they weren't fit for that fine and honorable trade. :)

Don't insult the fry cook profession, lady.

She's insulting the Corporate Executive profession.

You're willing to sink billions into mortgages that are guaranteed to fail, but reducing unemployment (therefore increasing economic confidence, and momentum, as well as retail spending and property growth) and directly reducing the cost of living and carbon emissions is a bridge too far?

Nationalizing Gm is not actually a bad idea at this point. They would probably slowly turn into the next British Leyland.

She's insulting the Corporate Executive profession.I comprehend this, very well.

Hey, I said they weren't fit for that fine and honorable trade. :)What I was saying was that suggesting that they could even attempt to be fry cooks, or even comparing them to a fry cook in some shape, form, or fashion, is an insult to the profession. ;)

I comprehend this, very well.

What I was saying was that suggesting that they could even attempt to be fry cooks, or even comparing them to a fry cook in some shape, form, or fashion, is an insult to the profession. ;)
Bah, you're right. My apologies to the fry cooks of the world. They fry delicious foods. Very, very good. The jackasses at GM fry money and other people's futures. Not good, not at all.

it's in their best interest to declare bankruptcy. It kills the current shareholders, but allows them to shutter the failing aspects, and consolidate the stronger aspects into a new corporation without the franchise issues and the bill collectors bashing down the door.

Nationalizing Gm is not actually a bad idea at this point. They would probably slowly turn into the next British Leyland.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a1/1974.triumph.gt6.coupe.arp.jpg/800px-1974.triumph.gt6.coupe.arp.jpg

IMG...I actually like that car.

Bah, you're right. My apologies to the fry cooks of the world. They fry delicious foods. Very, very good. The jackasses at GM fry money and other people's futures. Not good, not at all.Perhaps we should fry them?

...I actually like that car.

Perhaps we should fry them?

Nah they don't taste good. Too much fat.....

Nah they don't taste good. Too much fat.....Oh, very well, we can roast them over an open fire, then.

...I actually like that car.

Perhaps we should fry them?

Oh, very well, we can roast them over an open fire, then.
If only these were the Middle Ages. We could have done both.

If only these were the Middle Ages. We could have done both.We could have feasted for days. *sigh*

If only these were the Middle Ages. We could have done both.

To the same one!

To the same one!
Twice-cooked jackass. :D

Okay, this gruesomeness is expressing too much of the depth of my disgust with them. I'm going to bed.

If only these were the Middle Ages. We could have done both.

Peshah. Grab them when they go skiing at Vail and take them out into the back woods.

You can have a barbecue and be gone before the police act.

Especially these days with all the budget cuts.

Peshah. Grab them when they go skiing at Vail and take them out into the back woods.

You can have a barbecue and be gone before the police act.

Especially these days with all the budget cuts.We could do it in Time Square, and I doubt anyone would lift a finger to help them.

It's pretty simple, nationalise General Motors, sack management and put in place a half-competent board. Then, take a fraction of the next multi-billion dollar "bail out" and directly employ people across the country. Heck, you could produce fleets of low-cost green cars whilst emlpoying blue collar workers in skilled labour

This.

Even if you don't think it would work, or it falls the wrong side of your personal spectrum, they should do this just to save jobs, and kick the nuts of the corpse-rapists currently asleep at the wheel.

American car manufacturers have seen their day. They were too stupid to get ahead of, or even follow, car trends so they lost. Put their workers to work on public works projects and throw the execs onto the streets.

Twice-cooked jackass. :D

Okay, this gruesomeness is expressing too much of the depth of my disgust with them. I'm going to bed.

Take me with you, I'm tired of sleeping on my own.

What did they spend it all on -- chewing gum?

I think this is a strong hint why GM is, I believe, the weakest of the Big Three. (And if they weren't, they are now.) Prop up their zombie corpse only long enough to find alternative employment for most of their workers, then let them go. Survival of the fittest, after all -- and those bozos are not fit to be fry cook trainees.

that's what Id prefer. Delorean is trying to crop back up in Texas. It might be a few years of less American cars on the road. But then smaller companies will raise up and fill the void, with better management and a more flexible labor force. (more competitive wages, and wont threaten to shut down the plant when they want to mechanize.)

The incompetence of General Motors - and Chrysler, let's not forget that they're also begging fewl billion dollars more from the government - is...inexplicable. Consider eg. Saab: Taken over by GM in the 90s, practically killed off as a brand and then most likely released back as an independent, instantly bankrupt company in 2010 (bankrupt without the intevention of Swedish government [EU?], that is...Which probably ain't gonna happen)


However, the real problem with US gobernment denying extra cash from the companies would be the hunders of thousands or so unemployed Americans more in short time.

That amount of unemployed people would unstabilize the economy more and would/could ultimately threaten the internal stability of the nation: Having several hundred thousand, half-a-million, armed and disgruntled suddenly unemployed people around doesn't really sound like a good alternative in terms of national security or the security of the common people.

So, in order to save money the US government probably has no choice but to finance the companies, be it through nationalising or eg. free loans, through the mess.

Though, it would certainly be more interesting if the money stopped flowing....That is, more interesting in the same way as a car wreck is more interesting than traffic jam :D

Let GM die. It has repeatedly failed to heed any warnings or adequately plan ahead. Its vehicles don't have any relevance. It's a lurching dinosaur that's on its last legs. Its death might even serve as a salutory lesson for Ford & Chrysler.

http://www.dofasco.ca/bins/index.asp

I think they should do what Dofasco Inc did and make every employee a part owner of the company in exchange for huge wage concessions. Then the employees would benefit in the long run. They would have a vested interest in making the company work and profitable again. They could get rid of a lot of the deadwood. I think the Government should be a part owner maybe a major stockholder for a period of 20 years or something.

Let GM die. It has repeatedly failed to heed any warnings or adequately plan ahead. Its vehicles don't have any relevance. It's a lurching dinosaur that's on its last legs. Its death might even serve as a salutory lesson for Ford & Chrysler.

Or, you know, kill them off. But either way the executives are punished and that's what's important.

I'm still waiting for an excuse from the auto industry why my '94 Civic can get 40 mpg on the freeway and yet modern-day cars that are of similar size and engine power get less than that. And I'm also waiting for a reason from the government why I don't get any tax credit even though that's better gas mileage than most hybrid SUVs.

As for GM, they're like a person who cuts of their foot and is honestly confused as to why they're on crutches. There's a complete brain-hurting lack of any ability to learn. Technically they figured out that people want cars with better gas mileage, but even still I'm not gonna pay for a Saturn Astra or Chevy Aveo when I can get a Honda Fit and still have cargo space. I don't like flying so I drive on all my long vacations and I'm into all sorts of outdoor activities so the cargo space is a big deal for me.

scrapping the ev-1 pretty much answers the thread question, i should think.

:eek:

So let me get this straight.

General Motors received 13.4 billion from the government (taxes) to help the company. They promised to repay it before anything else.
They are not repaying. The government hired lawyers to get the money back (using more tax money). Chance of recovery=0.

Now General Motors wants another 16.6 billion, and for that support they will slash 47,000 jobs...:confused:

Anyone else feel like we're being duped?
Anyone else feel like giving the administrators at GM a good swift boot in the seat of the pants?



Maybe we should have given GM to Delorean when we had the chance.

Yes.

Or, you know, kill them off. But either way the executives are punished and that's what's important.

It would also act as a case study to unions. Don't demand too much, or else the entity may go belly-up in forty years thanks to increased labour costs.

The government hired lawyers to get the money back (using more tax money). Chance of recovery=0.


For the sake of accuracy, i do not believe this part has happened. I have never heard that the government has asked for their money back less then two months after they lent it. It doesnt even make sence.

It would also act as a case study to unions. Don't demand too much, or else the entity may go belly-up in forty years thanks to increased labour costs.

I suppose you'll insist that making expensive gas guzzlers with limited market appeal had nothing to do with GM's flop?

I suppose you'll insist that making expensive gas guzzlers with limited market appeal had nothing to do with GM's flop?

Making expensive gas guzzlers WAS GMs business, and they successfully sold hundreds of millions of them. The problem was their inability to quickly change with the swinging demands of the market. We had cheap gas for decades, we had expensive gas for about a year and a half.

Making expensive gas guzzlers WAS GMs business, and they successfully sold hundreds of millions of them. The problem was their inability to quickly change with the swinging demands of the market. We had cheap gas for decades, we had expensive gas for about a year and a half.

I was referring to the recent years. And since GM was betting on a one trick pony, it's no surprise that it's fallen flat when times changed. And their idea of begging for more bail money while closing down factories and starting mass layoffs is greed speaking at best.

It was a mistake to bail GM out in the first place.

Look at it this way. No investor in their right mind would invest money in GM. So why should we?

Between short-sighted idiot management, retarded vehicle design, and an overly-entitled union, the company is just NOT viable.

If you paid off all their debt, fired their entire management, shot their design staff, and ripped up the union contracts for good, you would essentially be starting over.

Starting over is called "bankruptcy". We already have a system for that, and it won't cost the taxpayers nearly as much as if we keep shoveling money into a useless corpse.