NationStates Jolt Archive

I have recently watched some detective programmes from various countries:-
Wallander from Sweden
Inspector Montalbano from Italy

and enjoyed them rather a lot. Being English I suppose the best fictional detectives we have produced are Holmes and Inspector Morse (I hate Agatha Christie). Say what country you are from and who its best fictional detectives are.

Batman.

We don't have one. Nobody expects the gardaí to be able to solve crimes.

we don't have one. Nobody expects the gardaí to be able to solve crimes.

qft...

Max Romero is Spain's best fictional detective.

We don't have one. Nobody expects the gardaí to be able to solve crimes.

qft...

*Spots a gap in the market*

"Yes it is like Father Ted meets Raymond Chandler"

Angel :p

Batman.
Seconded.

"Yes it is like Father Ted meets Raymond Chandler"
I would pay to see that, but only if the Dougal-type character was the detective and Ted and Jack-type characters were the sidekicks.

Seconded.


I would pay to see that, but only if the Dougal-type character was the detective and Ted and Jack-type characters were the sidekicks.
Batman is hardly a detective. The criminals come to him.

I'd vote for Sam Spade. Nero Wolfe isn't a bad second, but I'd like to see him get out more.

Batman is hardly a detective.

Although it hasn't been played up too much in the films, the comic version of batman is often refered to as "the World's Greatest Detective" and is, quite literally, a genius.

Nero Wolfe isn't a bad second, but I'd like to see him get out more.

Nero Wolfe doesn't get out that's the whole point, Archie is the one who goes out.

But if you really want to see Nero Wolfe get out then read The Black Mountain.

Dudley Do-Right, I suppose.

Batman is hardly a detective. The criminals come to him.
That depends heavily on the writer/medium. Actually, by this point in time Batman has been just about anything you could imagine.

Jack Bauer.


Think he's not a detective? Think again.

Batman.

Win. :)

America's best detective is obviously Inspector Clouseau. Sheer Brilliance. :D

Or would that be French... a French part written by an American. Hm..

Jack Frost.

David Jason plays that part so so well.

But, Gene Hunt IS the best DCI on British TV, no doubt about it.

Although it hasn't been played up too much in the films, the comic version of batman is often refered to as "the World's Greatest Detective" and is, quite literally, a genius.

That depends heavily on the writer/medium. Actually, by this point in time Batman has been just about anything you could imagine.
I hadn't thought about the comic books for a long time. I guess my recollection of Batman has been polluted by Adam West and company.

Being English I suppose the best fictional detectives we have produced are Holmes and Inspector Morse (I hate Agatha Christie). Say what country you are from and who its best fictional detectives are.

Aw, how can't you like Poirot?

Anyway: Montalbano is very good (if you can get the books, by Andrea Camilleri, they're even better than the tv movies). Also the series Il maresciallo Rocca, with Gigi Proietti playing in the title role, is quite good, although not on par with Montalbano.

As for other european fictional detectives, I always liked Georges Simenon's Maigret, and also Derrick.

does Poirot count as English coz he was written by Agatha Christie or Belgian?

America's best detective is obviously Inspector Clouseau. Sheer Brilliance. :D

Or would that be French... a French part written by an American. Hm..

You know, that's an excellent question.

does Poirot count as English coz he was written by Agatha Christie or Belgian?

The important thing is that he counts as awesome.

http://www.beruehmte-detektive.de/detektei/marple.jpg

We don't have one. Nobody expects the gardaí to be able to solve crimes.

What about Artemis Fowl?

What about Artemis Fowl?

He causes crimes, not solves them.

http://www.seiberth.ch/cgi-bin/tum/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/derrick.jpg

:p

He causes crimes, not solves them.

I see you've only read the first book, then? ;)

John Kimble.

America's best detective is obviously Inspector Clouseau. Sheer Brilliance. :D

Or would that be French... a French part written by an American. Hm..

Played by an Englishman:p

Wow no one from England said Sherlock Holmes? I got to go With Magnum P.I. I still love that show.

I'm Belgian, so I can safely say: Hercule Poirot.

Wow no one from England said Sherlock Holmes? I got to go With Magnum P.I. I still love that show.

Other than me in the first post?

Although it hasn't been played up too much in the films, the comic version of batman is often refered to as "the World's Greatest Detective" and is, quite literally, a genius.

Not to mention that, iirc, he was generally played up as much more of a masked detective than a high flying superhero in the early days of the comic series.

United States.
Detective Meyer Landsman, hands-fucking-down. :D

United States.
Detective Meyer Landsman, hands-fucking-down. :D

hehe, Yiddish Detective.

I'm American, and I'd say Spenser, from the writings of Robert Parker.

But Australia has one of the most interesting fictional detectives of all - Arthur Upfield's Bony, aka Detective Inspector Napoleon Bonaparte, half-caste aboriginal tracker and crime solver for the Queensland Police.

Harry Dresden!

What about Monk?

What about Monk?

Adrian Monk has his moments, tis true.

What about Monk?

Tried the show. Found it tiring, actually; the only thing that makes him stand out is his OCD. Bit of a one-trick pony.

Emma Peel.

One of my favorite episodes of Monk involves an episode in which his paperboy is murdered. Believing that he may have been murdered to prevent him from delivering the paper to Monk, he turns to the newspaper for clues.

In the process, based on articles in the paper, proceeds to solve two other murders, one of them having happened in France.

One of my favorite episodes of Monk involves an episode in which his paperboy is murdered. Believing that he may have been murdered to prevent him from delivering the paper to Monk, he turns to the newspaper for clues.

In the process, based on articles in the paper, proceeds to solve two other murders, one of them having happened in France.

I remember that one; it was very cool. But most of the episodes I've seen haven't been up to that standard - if they were, I'd still be watching.

One of my favorite episodes of Monk involves an episode in which his paperboy is murdered. Believing that he may have been murdered to prevent him from delivering the paper to Monk, he turns to the newspaper for clues.

In the process, based on articles in the paper, proceeds to solve two other murders, one of them having happened in France.

I love Monk but his conflicting compulsions/phobias piss me off.....first he's afraid of germs, but he has the compulsion to touch everything? What?!

My brain is stuck on television today so I'm going with House, although I know that's the really wrong answer.

cadfael

I love Monk but his conflicting compulsions/phobias piss me off.....first he's afraid of germs, but he has the compulsion to touch everything? What?!


Well, this doesn't bother me, and I find it somewhat valid, for a particular reason. OCD by definition is not rational behavior. It's the difference between being afraid of germs and having a phobia of germs.

Someone who is afraid of germs might not want to touch anything. Someone who has a phobia of it has an irrational but uncontrollable mental response. However if he is compelled to "touch", then the compulsion to touch things may override his compulsion to be afraid of it.

yes, his compulsions are conflicting and inconsistant, but that's ok. Phobias and compulsions aren't rational.

Adrian Monk is good, yes.

Detective John McClane will get the job done too. In addition to creatively restructuring much of the city and slaughtering an army of conveniently-evil henchmen.

I love Monk but his conflicting compulsions/phobias piss me off.....first he's afraid of germs, but he has the compulsion to touch everything? What?!

My brain is stuck on television today so I'm going with House, although I know that's the really wrong answer.

Well House is based on Sherlock Homes, so he could be seen as a medical detective.

cadfael

Mm, but what country is he in? Iirc they never make it clear whether his monastery is in England or Wales, and given "Cadfael" is not his birth name, but the one he took upon entering Holy Orders, and that he previously was either a soldier or mercenary, so he could be from anywhere...

One of my favorite episodes of Monk involves an episode in which his paperboy is murdered. Believing that he may have been murdered to prevent him from delivering the paper to Monk, he turns to the newspaper for clues.

In the process, based on articles in the paper, proceeds to solve two other murders, one of them having happened in France.

I remember that one. It was indeed excellent.

I also think it's kinda funny that both Monk and House have already been mentioned, given that both of them were explicitly supposed to be modernized, slightly twisted versions of Sherlock Holmes. :)

Mm, but what country is he in? Iirc they never make it clear whether his monastery is in England or Wales, and given "Cadfael" is not his birth name, but the one he took upon entering Holy Orders, and that he previously was either a soldier or mercenary, so he could be from anywhere...

The abbey is in England, near the border of Wales. Cadfael himself is a Welshman. He was a crusader before becoming a monk, but there's no ambiguity about any of that. :)

Well, this doesn't bother me, and I find it somewhat valid, for a particular reason. OCD by definition is not rational behavior. It's the difference between being afraid of germs and having a phobia of germs.

Someone who is afraid of germs might not want to touch anything. Someone who has a phobia of it has an irrational but uncontrollable mental response. However if he is compelled to "touch", then the compulsion to touch things may override his compulsion to be afraid of it.

yes, his compulsions are conflicting and inconsistant, but that's ok. Phobias and compulsions aren't rational.

No, I know that. I have OCD myself and none of it is rational. I also have a non-OCD thing where any kind of logical dissonance annoys the shit out of me.

The abbey is in England, near the border of Wales. Cadfael himself is a Welshman. He was a crusader before becoming a monk, but there's no ambiguity about any of that. :)

Ah, there must be books I have not read.

I remember that one. It was indeed excellent.

I also think it's kinda funny that both Monk and House have already been mentioned, given that both of them were explicitly supposed to be modernized, slightly twisted versions of Sherlock Holmes. :)

I wouldn't say House is that much of a twist of Holmes, other than the obvious change in profession.

Both are drug addicts, both are misanthropes who rely on a small group of associates for aid in solving cases, etc.

I remember that one. It was indeed excellent.

I also think it's kinda funny that both Monk and House have already been mentioned, given that both of them were explicitly supposed to be modernized, slightly twisted versions of Sherlock Holmes. :)

Well Homes was addicted to Opium, and House is addicted to Vicodin.

I wouldn't say House is that much of a twist of Holmes, other than the obvious change in profession.

Both are drug addicts, both are misanthropes who rely on a small group of associates for aid in solving cases, etc.

Yea, but who is House's Watson, Wilson or Foreman?

I remember that one. It was indeed excellent.

I also think it's kinda funny that both Monk and House have already been mentioned, given that both of them were explicitly supposed to be modernized, slightly twisted versions of Sherlock Holmes. :)

Have you seen psych?

Well, this doesn't bother me, and I find it somewhat valid, for a particular reason. OCD by definition is not rational behavior. It's the difference between being afraid of germs and having a phobia of germs.

Someone who is afraid of germs might not want to touch anything. Someone who has a phobia of it has an irrational but uncontrollable mental response. However if he is compelled to "touch", then the compulsion to touch things may override his compulsion to be afraid of it.

yes, his compulsions are conflicting and inconsistant, but that's ok. Phobias and compulsions aren't rational.

Well, the one problem is that the show's writers periodically seem to give him entirely new phobias or compulsions out of the blue, which gets a bit annoying and unrealistic. That (along with still just liking Sharona much more than Natalie) is part of why I never seem to like the recent episodes as well as I did the first couple of seasons, where they hadn't yet gotten bored with his "normal" weirdnesses, so to speak. :p

Yea, but who is House's Watson, Wilson or Foreman?

Wilson. Foreman is the Police Detective.

I wouldn't say House is that much of a twist of Holmes, other than the obvious change in profession.

Both are drug addicts, both are misanthropes who rely on a small group of associates for aid in solving cases, etc.

No, it goes WAY beyond that:

1) House is House. Holmes is Holmes
1b) Holmes sounds like "Homes". House is...House, another word for "home"
2) Holme's best friend is Dr. Watson. House's best friend is Dr. Wilson
3) House keeps a book on his shelf given to him as a gift - A second edition of Conan Doyle

4) most damning of all:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/slashbabe/meme/221B.jpg

House is intended to be a DIRECT reference to Holmes

Well, the one problem is that the show's writers periodically seem to give him entirely new phobias or compulsions out of the blue, which gets a bit annoying and unrealistic. That (along with still just liking Sharona much more than Natalie) is part of why I never seem to like the recent episodes as well as I did the first couple of seasons, where they hadn't yet gotten bored with his "normal" weirdnesses, so to speak. :p

True, fair enough. If you watch older episodes, Monk seems more like a "true OCD" person, then the over the top gimmick he's become.

Detective John McClane will get the job done too. In addition to creatively restructuring much of the city and slaughtering an army of conveniently-evil henchmen.

"You killed a helicopter with a car!"
"I didn't have a gun"

Awesome.

Yea, but who is House's Watson, Wilson or Foreman?

Wilson. Duh. Even the name is a giveaway. Foreman et. al. are the Irregulars, obviously - they're the ones who run around collecting the info while House sits around doing drugs and playing classical music in his apartment at 221B. (It's not subtle, ya know? :p )

Well Homes was addicted to Opium, and House is addicted to Vicodin.

Even more direct then most realise. The primary ingredient of Vicodin is hydrocodone. Which is...an opiate.

Jurriaan 'Jurre' de Cock together with his companion Dick Vledder.

And I'm not making this up :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baantjer

Even more direct then most realise. The primary ingredient of Vicodin is oxycodone. Which is...an opiate.
Aye but Holmes was also into coke in a big way, plus smoking.

Anyway Holmes is a bit dull, seriously, Emma Peel ftw.

Even more direct then most realise. The primary ingredient of Vicodin is oxycodone. Which is...an opiate.

Hmm well I am a big fan of House, so maybe I should read some Sherlock Homes, I'm sure I'll like him too. :)

Even more direct then most realise. The primary ingredient of Vicodin is oxycodone. Which is...an opiate.

To be fair, an artificial Opiate. Hits the same receptors, but it's made in a lab.

Detective Olivia Benson.

Those legs make me want to confess...

http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/mariskahargitay/mariska_hargitay_3.jpg

Even more direct then most realise. The primary ingredient of Vicodin is hydrocodone. Which is...an opiate.

Heck, even more direct than that. As I recall, it's explicitly stated that Holmes indulges his cocaine/morphine habit specifically when he is bored, because he can't stand not having a case to occupy his mind. Watson gives him grief about it, too. It's pretty much exactly what House does. :p

http://www.seiberth.ch/cgi-bin/tum/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/derrick.jpg

:p

...This stuff was assigned for my German class in HS. XD

...I also share a name. :P

Anyway, Matlock.

Philip Marlowe

I also have a non-OCD thing where any kind of logical dissonance annoys the shit out of me.
http://generalitemafia.ipbfree.com/uploads/ipbfree.com/generalitemafia/emo-lolani.gif

I’m going on a TV rant today it seems. One thing that bothers me about detective/medical dramas is what I like to call the “why did I hire you again?” syndrome. In which the main character is, essentially, god amongst men, at doing what he does. He’s your Gregory House, your Shawn Spencer, your Adrian Monk. He is the best at what he does. And that’s what you hired him to do.

So shut up and let him do it. Constantly in these dramas you always get support characters who, for some odd reason, decide to not believe him because what he is saying sounds obscure or implausible. Look, I know it sounds bizarre that the guy really believes the astronaut orchestrated the murder from space. But you know what? He’s solved 100 murders before this one. Yes, I know it sounds strange that he wants to shove electrodes up the guy’s anus and make him sing “she’ll be coming ‘round the mountain.” But ya know what? He’s diagnosed diseases you’ve never HEARD of.

So yeah, it sounds bizarre, it sounds weird. It sounds like he’s off his rocker. But he’s WAAAAY better at doing his job than you are. Shut up and let him do it.

I’m going on a TV rant today it seems. One thing that bothers me about detective/medical dramas is what I like to call the “why did I hire you again?” syndrome. In which the main character is, essentially, god amongst men, at doing what he does. He’s your Gregory House, your Shawn Spencer, your Adrian Monk. He is the best at what he does. And that’s what you hired him to do.

So shut up and let him do it. Constantly in these dramas you always get support characters who, for some odd reason, decide to not believe him because what he is saying sounds obscure or implausible. Look, I know it sounds bizarre that the guy really believes the astronaut orchestrated the murder from space. But you know what? He’s solved 100 murders before this one. Yes, I know it sounds strange that he wants to shove electrodes up the guy’s anus and make him sing “she’ll be coming ‘round the mountain.” But ya know what? He’s diagnosed diseases you’ve never HEARD of.

So yeah, it sounds bizarre, it sounds weird. It sounds like he’s off his rocker. But he’s WAAAAY better at doing his job than you are. Shut up and let him do it.

To a point, I agree with you, but the "appeal to authority" fallacy can lie in any profession as well as logical discourse.

Yes, I know it sounds strange that he wants to shove electrodes up the guy’s anus and make him sing “she’ll be coming ‘round the mountain.” But ya know what? He’s diagnosed diseases you’ve never HEARD of.

In fairness, it is entirely plausible that House would do something like this just because it amuses him, and you can't exactly blame Cuddy and co. for having trouble telling when House is being useful and when House is just being an ass. ;)

In fairness, it is entirely plausible that House would do something like this just because it amuses him, and you can't exactly blame Cuddy and co. for having trouble telling when House is being useful and when House is just being an ass. ;)

No one could carry on like House and not get fired the same day.

I’m going on a TV rant today it seems. One thing that bothers me about detective/medical dramas is what I like to call the “why did I hire you again?” syndrome. In which the main character is, essentially, god amongst men, at doing what he does. He’s your Gregory House, your Shawn Spencer, your Adrian Monk. He is the best at what he does. And that’s what you hired him to do.

So shut up and let him do it. Constantly in these dramas you always get support characters who, for some odd reason, decide to not believe him because what he is saying sounds obscure or implausible. Look, I know it sounds bizarre that the guy really believes the astronaut orchestrated the murder from space. But you know what? He’s solved 100 murders before this one. Yes, I know it sounds strange that he wants to shove electrodes up the guy’s anus and make him sing “she’ll be coming ‘round the mountain.” But ya know what? He’s diagnosed diseases you’ve never HEARD of.

So yeah, it sounds bizarre, it sounds weird. It sounds like he’s off his rocker. But he’s WAAAAY better at doing his job than you are. Shut up and let him do it.

The writers do it as a cheap way to bring some conflict to the protagonists without introducing some other character.

It's somewhat justified in House though, since the average patient can't be expected to have even heard of him.

No one could carry on like House and not get fired the same day.

Which the show actually handles quite well, as they've repeatedly established that Cuddy is pretty much the only person in the universe willing to employ this asshole, and even she often doubts her own judgment in doing so.

The writers do it as a cheap way to bring some conflict to the protagonists without introducing some other character.

It's somewhat justified in House though, since the average patient can't be expected to have even heard of him.

I guess with House it works for the reasons you and Poli said, but I was watching an episode of Psych on my way to work this morning, with the same thing "oh, this is just too bizare for me to believe!"

Well, how about the last FIVE TIMES you said that, and it turned out he was right? Ever clue you in that he MIGHT be better at this than you are?

Which the show actually handles quite well, as they've repeatedly established that Cuddy is pretty much the only person in the universe willing to employ this asshole, and even she often doubts her own judgment in doing so.

pretty much, it is in fact outright stated in one episode, where, in talking with another doctor from another hospital, the other administrator flat out says they'd never hire him.

The ONLY way it works is because his close friends know he really is THAT good, and cover for him.

I guess with House it works for the reasons you and Poli said, but I was watching an episode of Psych on my way to work this morning, with the same thing "oh, this is just too bizare for me to believe!"

Well, how about the last FIVE TIMES you said that, and it turned out he was right? Ever clue you in that he MIGHT be better at this than you are?

Agent Scully pioneered it, really.

Agent Scully pioneered it, really.

Haha, true. I loved the X-Files, but there definitely were points when I kinda wanted to yell, "OF COURSE IT'S FUCKING ALIENS" at Scully. :tongue:

I’m going on a TV rant today it seems. One thing that bothers me about detective/medical dramas is what I like to call the “why did I hire you again?” syndrome. In which the main character is, essentially, god amongst men, at doing what he does. He’s your Gregory House, your Shawn Spencer, your Adrian Monk. He is the best at what he does. And that’s what you hired him to do.

So shut up and let him do it. Constantly in these dramas you always get support characters who, for some odd reason, decide to not believe him because what he is saying sounds obscure or implausible. Look, I know it sounds bizarre that the guy really believes the astronaut orchestrated the murder from space. But you know what? He’s solved 100 murders before this one. Yes, I know it sounds strange that he wants to shove electrodes up the guy’s anus and make him sing “she’ll be coming ‘round the mountain.” But ya know what? He’s diagnosed diseases you’ve never HEARD of.

So yeah, it sounds bizarre, it sounds weird. It sounds like he’s off his rocker. But he’s WAAAAY better at doing his job than you are. Shut up and let him do it.

I agree, and I'd like to make a House rant. What the hell is up with Foreman? Does he take pleasure in screwing himself over career wise? First he left House because he didn't want to become house. He got hired by another hospital, he took the "House" approach to solving a case, which caused him to disobey an order from his superiors, which got him fired. So he tries to get another job, but end up working for House again. Then he gets put on this drug trail, and when he finds out his girlfriend and House's fellow "Thirteen" was giving a placebo instead of the real drug, he falsify medical records on her behalf and gave her the real drug. He would've gotten away with it, except....he confessed to the people running the drug trail. He got kicked off of the drug trial and so did "Thirteen".

I swear, every time Foreman gets a chance to get away from House, he screws it up.

Well Homes was addicted to Opium, and House is addicted to Vicodin.

Holmes did not indulge in opiates. He was a cokehead.

http://www.bakerstreetdozen.com/coca.html

The writers do it as a cheap way to bring some conflict to the protagonists without introducing some other character.

It's somewhat justified in House though, since the average patient can't be expected to have even heard of him.

Eh, he's actually is the world's famous Diagnostician, so there's a strong chance that people have heard of him. That why he gets famous people coming to him from time to time.

Holmes did not indulge in opiates. He was a cokehead.

http://www.bakerstreetdozen.com/coca.html

I'm about 99% sure he took morphine, too, actually. Not straight opium, though.

I fear that for the Netherlands that would be police inspector de Cock - with Ceee Oooo Ceee Kay. And his assistant, Dick. Working in the red light district of Amsterdam.

And yes, this is an actual mainstream series of detectivenovels that was even televised as a reasonable popular series - not some obscure porn. See Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._C._Baantjer) ;)

I fear that for the Netherlands that would be detective de Cock - with Ceee Oooo Ceee Kay. And his assistant, Dick. Working in the red light district of Amsterdam.

And yes, this is an actual mainstream series of detectivenovels that was even televised as a reasonable popular series - not some obscure porn.

I giggled.

I giggled.

Also worthy to note is that the writer of the series is from Urk - which is in the Dutch "Bible Belt" of ultra-conservative Christians.

I'm about 99% sure he took morphine, too, actually. Not straight opium, though.

It is suggested or implied in one story, The Sign of Four. But otherwise it's just stimulants, usually coke, but he drinks two pots of coffee in one go in The Hound of the Baskervilles.

It makes sense. Holmes is all about observation. Opiates dull the senses. Cocaine stimulates them.

So is Dr Cuddy meant to be Mrs Hudson?

If I were from the US I might have chosen Nick Charles or Kinky Friedmann (though his fictional status is questionable).

Inspector Gadget, obviously.

Dominic Da Vinci, although he was a coroner rather than a detective.

I'm mildly surprised no-one's mentioned Rebus for Scotland.

So is Dr Cuddy meant to be Mrs Hudson?


If she's intended as a direct analogue for anyone, I'd say it would have to be the police. She's got the right "I kind of despise you, but goddammit, you can SOLVE these bloody things, so I'll keep having you help me" attitude. :p

If she's intended as a direct analogue for anyone, I'd say it would have to be the police. She's got the right "I kind of despise you, but goddammit, you can SOLVE these bloody things, so I'll keep having you help me" attitude. :p

Probably the best analogy that could be made is that of Inspector Lestrade

Probably the best analogy that could be made is that of Inspector Lestrade

Yuppers. They've got the right sort of mutual-respect-and-even-sort-of-affection-mixed-with-mutual-loathing thing going on. :)

Yuppers. They've got the right sort of mutual-respect-and-even-sort-of-affection-mixed-with-mutual-loathing thing going on. :)

well not only that, but the quality Holmes found most troublesome in Lestrad is his myopic and single mindedness. One issue that House always has with Cuddy is her dogmatic adherance to her role as administrator.

But perhaps we stretch the analogy too far. I'm fairly certain Holmes never had sex with Lestrad.

well not only that, but the quality Holmes found most troublesome in Lestrad is his myopic and single mindedness. One issue that House always has with Cuddy is her dogmatic adherance to her role as administrator.

But perhaps we stretch the analogy too far. I'm fairly certain Holmes never had sex with Lestrad.

Well now comon Art, you gotta have some variant from the Homes universe, otherwise might as well call it Homes M.D.

But perhaps we stretch the analogy too far. I'm fairly certain Holmes never had sex with Lestrad.

Rule 34. :p

But perhaps we stretch the analogy too far. I'm fairly certain Holmes never had sex with Lestrad.

This is the Internet.

One word: fanfic.

well not only that, but the quality Holmes found most troublesome in Lestrad is his myopic and single mindedness. One issue that House always has with Cuddy is her dogmatic adherance to her role as administrator.

But perhaps we stretch the analogy too far. I'm fairly certain Holmes never had sex with Lestrad.

He did often note that Lestrade's tits looked really great in that top, though.

This is the Internet.

One word: fanfic.

A quick google search reveals that not only does Holmes/Lestrade slashfic exist, Holmes/Lestrade/Watson threesome slashfic also exists.

Sometimes I cannot decide whether the right answer is "I love the internet" or "the internet is fucking scary." :tongue:

He did often note that Lestrade's tits looked really great in that top, though.

and Dr. House does comment on Cuddy's breast and ass every chance he gets.

A quick google search reveals that not only does Holmes/Lestrade slashfic exist, Holmes/Lestrade/Watson threesome slashfic also exists.

Sometimes I cannot decide whether the right answer is "I love the internet" or "the internet is fucking scary." :tongue:

Maybe you love the internet because it is fucking scary?

Encyclopedia Brown *nods*

*edit* THE HARDY BOYS!!! (Sorry, Wil. You asked for it :p)

I'm just glad no one mentioned Nancy Drew or The Hardy Boys yet....

Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys fanfic? Mos def.

Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys fanfic? Mos def.

Wait, Nancy Drew/Mos Def? I don't know how Ned will feel about that... :tongue:

Nancy Drew/Hardy Boys fanfic? Mos def.

It's not fan fic. (http://www.amazon.com/Nancy-Drew-Meets-Hardy-Boys/lm/335PXXYAOMY1D)

It's not fan fic. (http://www.amazon.com/Nancy-Drew-Meets-Hardy-Boys/lm/335PXXYAOMY1D)

Is Carolyn Keene not a fan? :tongue:

I’m going on a TV rant today it seems. One thing that bothers me about detective/medical dramas is what I like to call the “why did I hire you again?” syndrome. In which the main character is, essentially, god amongst men, at doing what he does. He’s your Gregory House, your Shawn Spencer, your Adrian Monk. He is the best at what he does. And that’s what you hired him to do.

So shut up and let him do it. Constantly in these dramas you always get support characters who, for some odd reason, decide to not believe him because what he is saying sounds obscure or implausible. Look, I know it sounds bizarre that the guy really believes the astronaut orchestrated the murder from space. But you know what? He’s solved 100 murders before this one. Yes, I know it sounds strange that he wants to shove electrodes up the guy’s anus and make him sing “she’ll be coming ‘round the mountain.” But ya know what? He’s diagnosed diseases you’ve never HEARD of.

So yeah, it sounds bizarre, it sounds weird. It sounds like he’s off his rocker. But he’s WAAAAY better at doing his job than you are. Shut up and let him do it.
Or the writers could handle it more realistically by letting the hero be wrong often enough to maintain the balance of power between them and their skeptics.
Sometimes people just sort of die in horrible ways. It is impossible to figure out why, and what they ate for lunch the day before really isn't relevant to the situation.

Or the writers could handle it more realistically by letting the hero be wrong often enough to maintain the balance of power between them and their skeptics.
Sometimes people just sort of die in horrible ways. It is impossible to figure out why, and what they ate for lunch the day before really isn't relevant to the situation.

Yea, but then House wouldn't be this Diagnostic genius. That's the whole premises of the show, is that House is this savant at Diagnosing things that no other doctors are able to figure out.

It's not fan fic. (http://www.amazon.com/Nancy-Drew-Meets-Hardy-Boys/lm/335PXXYAOMY1D)

Yea, but I doubt rule 34 applies to those books....

Yea, but then House wouldn't be this Diagnostic genius. That's the whole premises of the show, is that House is this savant at Diagnosing things that no other doctors are able to figure out.
Which makes him obnoxious and unrealistic (well, his personality and immunity to discipline help that), which is why I've never voluntarily watched House (keyword being, "voluntarily," unfortunately).
Even geniuses get stumped periodically, or are proven wrong.

Which makes him obnoxious and unrealistic (well, his personality and immunity to discipline help that), which is why I've never voluntarily watched House (keyword being, "voluntarily," unfortunately).
Even geniuses get stumped periodically, or are proven wrong.

So I guess them trying different theories and treatment before they hit the right one doesn't count?

You know, for a very formulated show, and House is that formulated, I always thought it was well written.

Which makes him obnoxious and unrealistic (well, his personality and immunity to discipline help that), which is why I've never voluntarily watched House (keyword being, "voluntarily," unfortunately).
Even geniuses get stumped periodically, or are proven wrong.

>>

Weeell, maybe once or twice.

Yea, but I doubt rule 34 applies to those books....

Rule 34 always applies.

Rule 34 always applies.

So we should expect Incest (since I'm guessing the Hardy Boys are brothers...) and threesomes?

Yea, but I doubt rule 34 applies to those books....

Rule 34 applies to everything. That is, in fact, the whole point of rule 34.


Results 1 - 10 of about 200,000 for "nancy drew" porn.

Results 1 - 10 of about 878 for "nancy drew porn".

Rule 34 applies to everything. That is, in fact, the whole point of rule 34.

Ok, you just looked up Nancy Drew porn...I dunno whether to laugh at that, or just feel sorry for you. :p

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the Goth Chick porn.

Ok, you just looked up Nancy Drew porn...I dunno whether to laugh at that, or just feel sorry for you. :p

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to the Goth Chick porn.

Just to be clear, you do know it's possible to google something and not follow the links, right?

(Although I must admit, I'd probably find Nancy Drew porn pretty damn hilarious.)

Just to be clear, you do know it's possible to google something and not follow the links, right?

(Although I must admit, I'd probably find Nancy Drew porn pretty damn hilarious.)

Yes I know...I was just ribbing you dear Poli. I am in a good mood today, so enjoy it before I return to my old self. :)

So we should expect Incest (since I'm guessing the Hardy Boys are brothers...) and threesomes?

Rule 34 ALWAYS applies.

Once you have seen smurf porn, you realize there is no level the internet has not sunk too.

I'm mildly surprised no-one's mentioned Rebus for Scotland.

If I'd seen this thread earlier I would have. Excellent on TV (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0X6rgGosd0), awesome in books.

Fatatatutti's best fictional detective is Travers LaRue - The Case of the Stolen Fence, etc. - doubly fictional because he comes from a fictional country.

You have missed the best one of all. Scooby Doo, where every crime could be solved by tearing a mask off of the bad guy.

You have missed the best one of all. Scooby Doo, where every crime could be solved by tearing a mask off of the bad guy.

Was the scooby gang ever arrested for that drug trafficking they did ?

No way. How could they be? The police can't do a thing without their help.

I fear that for the Netherlands that would be police inspector de Cock - with Ceee Oooo Ceee Kay. And his assistant, Dick. Working in the red light district of Amsterdam.

And yes, this is an actual mainstream series of detectivenovels that was even televised as a reasonable popular series - not some obscure porn. See Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._C._Baantjer) ;)

I already stated this a couple of posts earlier :P

I already stated this a couple of posts earlier :P

Be silent, Elmo ;p

Be silent, Elmo ;p

Sure, Fozzie.

Surprising how little mention their's been of Holmes, but he's the obvious choice I suppose. To easy.

Magnum had a better mustache and and better car than Holmes.

Magnum had a better mustache and and better car than Holmes.

Magnum. ... *Drools.*

Batman.

Psh, Inspector Gadget FTW!

This is one area where women are sadly under represented. I mean please Charlie's Angels we were not watching for the detective work, it was like one big hair commerical from start to finish. Cagney and Lacey, ehhh okay but not great. Murder she wrote, just horrible. About the only one I can think of that was halfway decent was Alias. She was suppose to be a spy but....

There are some detective novels that I've read where the detective don't really have that much of a flaw. I love the Dresden Files, but honestly Harry doesn't have any major flaws. At least with Homes, he was a coke head, with Monk, he had OCD and several phobias. I dunno, I guess I like my novels to be as realistic as possible.

How are we defining detective? Would Scarpetta count? She investigates stuff.....

How are we defining detective? Would Scarpetta count? She investigates stuff.....

Anything that is found in the Detective section of the book store.

The best Finnish fictional detective could be Kyösti Pöysti. He is actually the only one that I can think of at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvoAcEMC78M

BTW, I'm hoping those subs are fan made because they are really horrible.

How are we defining detective? Would Scarpetta count? She investigates stuff.....

I would say anyone who solves crimes/mysteries, when I started the thread I was thinking of police officers mainly but not exclusively.

He is Vengence...

He is the Night...

HE IS BATMAN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman)!!!

There is none greater *nods*...

Either Sherlock Holmes, or the wonderful Samuel Vimes.

The best Finnish fictional detective could be Kyösti Pöysti. He is actually the only one that I can think of at the moment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvoAcEMC78M

BTW, I'm hoping those subs are fan made because they are really horrible.

What about Palmu?!

Heck, even more direct than that. As I recall, it's explicitly stated that Holmes indulges his cocaine/morphine habit specifically when he is bored, because he can't stand not having a case to occupy his mind. Watson gives him grief about it, too. It's pretty much exactly what House does. :p

Indeed, it is stated as such in at least one story. I haven't read them recently enough to quote which one, however.

Holmes did not indulge in opiates. He was a cokehead.

http://www.bakerstreetdozen.com/coca.html

Holmes also took opiates, as I recall. There's a line about "Which is it today, the heroin or the cocaine?" Again, no reference offhand, I'm afraid.

I'm about 99% sure he took morphine, too, actually. Not straight opium, though.

If I recall correctly, he spends part of one case in an opium den, but I don't think it's ever explicitly stated that he takes opium while there.

Okay, I went and looked up references for a few bits. I cite Chapter 1 of "The Sign of Four", where we find the following short piece of dialogue.


"Which is it to-day," I asked, "morphine or cocaine?"

He raised his eyes languidly from the old black-letter volume which he had opened.

"It is cocaine," he said, "a seven-per-cent solution. Would you care to try it?"


(see here (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Sign_of_the_Four/Chapter_1))

My memory was not perfect, but morphine is an opiate, so the point stands. Holmes then goes on into an explanation about why he is taking the drug, primarily because of boredom, neatly backing up Poli's original statement I've quoted. As for the opium reference, Holmes is to be found in one in "The Man With the Twisted Lip". Again, whether he partakes of the drug is not made clear in the story.

Anything that is found in the Detective section of the book store.
House wouldn't be found there......but he's been accepted.
I would say anyone who solves crimes/mysteries, when I started the thread I was thinking of police officers mainly but not exclusively.
She's a forensic pathologist but she does solve crimes.....with minor help from secondary characters.

Gregor Eisenhorn!

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/2/2b/Gregor_Eisenhorn.jpg

I vote for SHAFT. and those of you Americans who didnt vote for shaft are a bunch of white honkys
Also Boss N*** is a close second even if it is a western setting
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amiUs_fLoio&feature=PlayList&p=B03C532EFAEE77C2&playnext=1&index=39

Off the top of my head:
Adrian Monk
Shawn Spencer
Allison DuBois
Fox Mulder
Dick Tracy
The Hardy Boys
Nancy Drew
Shaft
Johnny Quest
Scooby-Doo and the Gang
The Dude
Bart and Lisa Simpson

My personal favorite is Dale Cooper.

I have recently watched some detective programmes from various countries:-
Wallander from Sweden
Inspector Montalbano from Italy

and enjoyed them rather a lot. Being English I suppose the best fictional detectives we have produced are Holmes and Inspector Morse (I hate Agatha Christie). Say what country you are from and who its best fictional detectives are.

I rather have a soft spot for Monk, cause he's hilarious.

Koko and Yum Yum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cat_Who) :D

Either Sherlock Holmes, or the wonderful Samuel Vimes.

Detreius the Troll.

His method is simple...
"I know you did it."
"Tell me why you did it"
"You did it... didn't you..."

and effective. since everyone he questions ends up confessing...
"Yes! I DID IT, now tell me what it is I supposidily did?!!!"

Slightly off topic, but I just remember a Sherlock Holmes joke:
Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson went on a camping trip. After a good meal and a bottle of wine they lay down for the night, and went to sleep. Some hours later, Holmes awoke and nudged his faithful friend.

"Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see."

Watson replied, "I see millions and millions of stars."

"What does that tell you?"

Watson pondered for a minute. "Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Chronologically, I deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. Theologically, I can see that God is all powerful and that we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, I supect that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you?"

Holmes was silent for a minute, then spoke. "Watson, you dickhead. Some bastard has stolen our tent."

Slightly off topic, but I just remember a Sherlock Holmes joke:
Sherlock Holmes and Dr Watson went on a camping trip. After a good meal and a bottle of wine they lay down for the night, and went to sleep. Some hours later, Holmes awoke and nudged his faithful friend.

"Watson, look up at the sky and tell me what you see."

Watson replied, "I see millions and millions of stars."

"What does that tell you?"

Watson pondered for a minute. "Astronomically, it tells me that there are millions of galaxies and potentially billions of planets. Astrologically, I observe that Saturn is in Leo. Chronologically, I deduce that the time is approximately a quarter past three. Theologically, I can see that God is all powerful and that we are small and insignificant. Meteorologically, I supect that we will have a beautiful day tomorrow. What does it tell you?"

Holmes was silent for a minute, then spoke. "Watson, you dickhead. Some bastard has stolen our tent."

lol! funny.

Magnum had a better mustache and and better car than Holmes.

Well cars weren't invented in Holmes's day. I guess he could have had a horse-drawn carriage.;)

Fox Mulder

He's not the best really, but as an X-Files fan I can't believe I didn't even think of this one. I guess when you think "detective story" you don't normally think "aliens" though.

Koko and Yum Yum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cat_Who) :D

How could I have forgotten them??? I have at least a half-dozen of those books on my shelf now, all read twice, probably. *flinches under the unrelenting stare of the Siamese cats*

I still say Encyclopedia Brown, though! *runs from the angry balls of fur and fang*

either Columbo or Maxwell Smart.

In Japan

TV: Furuhata Ninzaburo
Literature: Kindaichi Kosuke
Comics: Konan

Definitely Columbo.

Runner up has to be Kojak.

*snip*

But Australia has one of the most interesting fictional detectives of all - Arthur Upfield's Bony, aka Detective Inspector Napoleon Bonaparte, half-caste aboriginal tracker and crime solver for the Queensland Police.

That's who I was going to nominate!

Koko and Yum Yum. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cat_Who) :D

Yay. And don't forget Qwill.

Just please don't include Rita Mae Brown's cat and corgi. Authors that write animals that can drive a Porsche irritate me. At least KoKo and Yum Yum act like cats.

How are we defining detective? Would Scarpetta count? She investigates stuff.....

Don't forget Temperance Brennan.

Which makes him obnoxious and unrealistic (well, his personality and immunity to discipline help that), which is why I've never voluntarily watched House (keyword being, "voluntarily," unfortunately).
Even geniuses get stumped periodically, or are proven wrong.They don't save every patient though. There was the one patient who died from a simple staph infection, because House and Co were off looking for an exotic cause and didn't notice the cut on her back.

No, it goes WAY beyond that:

1) House is House. Holmes is Holmes
1b) Holmes sounds like "Homes". House is...House, another word for "home"
2) Holme's best friend is Dr. Watson. House's best friend is Dr. Wilson
3) House keeps a book on his shelf given to him as a gift - A second edition of Conan Doyle

4) most damning of all:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y109/slashbabe/meme/221B.jpg

House is intended to be a DIRECT reference to Holmes

My phrasing was wrong. I meant that he wasn't that much of a twist of Holmes as much as Holmes with a different profession.

I'm appalled that it took eleven pages to see the Scooby Doo gang. I'm even MORE appalled that Tintin is nowhere to be found.

Which makes him obnoxious and unrealistic (well, his personality and immunity to discipline help that), which is why I've never voluntarily watched House (keyword being, "voluntarily," unfortunately).
Even geniuses get stumped periodically, or are proven wrong.

I'd say having patients die is a pretty conclusive way to have been proven wrong...and it has happened in more than one episode. Even one in which his treatment (radiation) is exactly what left the woman susceptible to a simple staph infection which killed her.

I'd say having patients die is a pretty conclusive way to have been proven wrong...and it has happened in more than one episode. Even one in which his treatment (radiation) is exactly what left the woman susceptible to a simple staph infection which killed her.

one of the most fucked up episodes. A fucking bra hook.

one of the most fucked up episodes. A fucking bra hook.

the damn things are evil.

the damn things are evil.

I agree, ban bras.

I agree, ban bras.

*sings*
Born free, as free as the wind blows
As free as the grass grows
Born free to follow your heart...

I'm appalled that it took eleven pages to see the Scooby Doo gang. I'm even MORE appalled that Tintin is nowhere to be found.

I would have listed Tintin, but I'm not French. I've also noticed no one has listed Jessica Fletcher, nor Lt. Frank Drebin.

Batman is not America's best fictional detective.

That would be Angel.

Let me demonstrate:
Batman:
Has a budget in the billions
Has the support of the Gotham City Police Commissioner
Uses advanced gadgets
Fights crime lords
Prevents the bad guys from taking over Gotham

Angel:
Has a shoestring budget
Has the support of one LAPD detective (and after Season Two, no longer even has that)
Uses battleaxes
Fights demons with lawyers
Prevents the bad guys from destroying the world

Batman is awesome, there's no denying it. But Angel beats him in the detective game.

Dominic Da Vinci, although he was a coroner rather than a detective.

Totally. One of the unexpected benefits of no sleep is my discovery of Da Vinci's Inquest on late night TV (2:30 AM Sundays, woo!)

Surprising how little mention their's been of Holmes, but he's the obvious choice I suppose. To easy.

*two drums and a cymbal fall off a cliff*

This is one area where women are sadly under represented. I mean please Charlie's Angels we were not watching for the detective work, it was like one big hair commerical from start to finish. Cagney and Lacey, ehhh okay but not great. Murder she wrote, just horrible. About the only one I can think of that was halfway decent was Alias. She was suppose to be a spy but....

V.I. Warshawski. No, NOT the movie, the movie was terrible. The books are really good. She kicks butt.

I think that Tintin is Belgian.
My List for what it is worth.
Ireland: Sister Fidelma by Peter Tremayne, a female Cadfael.
Sweden: Martin Beck by Sjöwall and Wahlöö, the best police procedurals imo.
Italy: Guido Brunetti by Donna Leon, though American she does live in Venice where the stories are set.
China: Judge Dee, based on original Chinese stories retold by Robert Van Gulik
England: Lord Peter Wimsey by Dorothy L Sayers for the traditionalists & Dalziel and Pascoe by Reginald Hill for the modern.
Scotland: John Rebus by Ian Rankin
U.S.A.: Nero Wolfe by Rex Stout for tradition and Mallory by Carol O'Connell for the Modern.
Planet Aurora: R. Daneel Olivaw by Isaac Asimov

constantine quishe, worlds greatest detective created by r.a.laferty, in sandaliotus where are you. though perhapse modled on a cross between hercule pearroh, and the pink panther, neither of which of course, represent the same country lafferty lived and i live, in.

there were also phillis gotlieb's big red cats, (representing their own other planet entirely)
asamov's r. daneel olivaw,

travis mcgee, of course.
our man flint, maybe.

well my focus is more skiffy then mystery.
there was that guy from the kyth interstellar detective agency in the telzey amberdon stories.

and a handful of other authors and their charicters who'se names evade me at the moment.

for the uk i'd have to say inspector morse, and that murder she wrote woman, can't even remember her name atm.

in general uk/euro 'cozies' have more 'class' then anything in the u.s.

now for cameroi, you know i don't think i've ever read anything about detective work there, although i almost tried to write one once. or started to. along about the time i unfortunately started loosing nearly all interest in attempting to create any sort of characterization, i don't even know what i did with my notes for that one.

Have to include James Bigglesworth, Biggles became a dectective in the post second world war novels

Just please don't include Rita Mae Brown's cat and corgi. Authors that write animals that can drive a Porsche irritate me. At least KoKo and Yum Yum act like cats.

well... that would be 'fictional'. ;)

but no, I prefer Koko and Yum Yum.

How could I have forgotten them??? I have at least a half-dozen of those books on my shelf now, all read twice, probably. *flinches under the unrelenting stare of the Siamese cats*

I still say Encyclopedia Brown, though! *runs from the angry balls of fur and fang*

great detective work for only $.25

hehehe... which is worse... being outsmarted by a kid, or beaten up by a girl. :D

great detective work for only $.25

hehehe... which is worse... being outsmarted by a kid, or beaten up by a girl. :D

I wouldn't know. Neither one has hapened to me. Can you describe it? :p

I wouldn't know. Neither one has hapened to me. Can you describe it? :p

hehehe... simple solution to both problems.

I just kept my F**king mouth shut.

Little edit to your list here:

Batman is not America's best fictional detective.

That would be Angel.

Let me demonstrate:
Batman:
Has a budget in the billions
Has the support of the Gotham City Police Commissioner
Uses advanced gadgets
Fights The Joker
Prevents the bad guys from taking over Gotham


That alone gives him huge badass points.:)

Also, I'm pretty sure the Dark Knight has saved the world, or at least more than just Gotham, if you take his full comic book career into account.

However, I'm not sure how much of his success is due to detective skills, and how much is due to his physical prowess/vast array of equipment.

As many British/English detectives have been mentioned, I'll vote for Scotland's best fictional detective: John Rebus.


I would pay to see that, but only if the Dougal-type character was the detective and Ted and Jack-type characters were the sidekicks.
You email Graham Linehan, I'll resurrect Dermot Morgan.


Batman is not America's best fictional detective.
Not Monk?


Have to include James Bigglesworth, Biggles became a dectective in the post second world war novels
Does he still fly about?


However, I'm not sure how much of his success is due to detective skills, and how much is due to his physical prowess/vast array of equipment.
As has been said by other folks, it depends on what writers are doing Bats' plots.

A relatively recent Batman comic which shows his sleuth side is Hush.

*snip*

Good point. I'm not sure if any of Angel's foes have been as twisted as the Joker - though Angelus himself is equally terrifying.

Oh G-d.

I just had a vision of Angelus allying with the Joker - or worse, turning him.

Good point. I'm not sure if any of Angel's foes have been as twisted as the Joker - though Angelus himself is equally terrifying.

Oh G-d.

I just had a vision of Angelus allying with the Joker - or worse, turning him.

Well I don't know much about Angel. I'm sure he's fought some impressive foes. However, saying that Batman merely fights crimelords is doing him a grave disservice in terms of badassery.

Though, how powerful and/or terrifying your foes are is not the best measure of a detective. Better to look at how clever those foes are at evading escape. The role of a detective is about more than simply beating up the bad guy. Its about catching a bad guy who's good at escaping capture.

Well I don't know much about Angel. I'm sure he's fought some impressive foes. However, saying that Batman merely fights crimelords is doing him a grave disservice in terms of badassery.

Though, how powerful and/or terrifying your foes are is not the best measure of a detective. Better to look at how clever those foes are at evading escape. The role of a detective is about more than simply beating up the bad guy. Its about catching a bad guy who's good at escaping capture.

By that standard, Angel wins. He fought lawyers.

obviously jolly old england's detective would be sherlock holmes. I vote the question for america.

Batman is not America's best fictional detective.

That would be Angel.

Let me demonstrate:
Batman:
Has a budget in the billions
Has the support of the Gotham City Police Commissioner
Uses advanced gadgets
Fights crime lords
Prevents the bad guys from taking over Gotham

Angel:
Has a shoestring budget
Has the support of one LAPD detective (and after Season Two, no longer even has that)
Uses battleaxes
Fights demons with lawyers
Prevents the bad guys from destroying the world

Batman is awesome, there's no denying it. But Angel beats him in the detective game.
Sorry, but budget, weapony and what they prevent doesn't define detective work.
By that standard, Angel wins. He fought lawyers. that's more of a territorial thing. blood suckers really hate it when other bloodsuckers poach on their hunting grounds. :D

Does he still fly about?




yes hes head of the Special Air Police