NationStates Jolt Archive

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6886660

British, French Nuclear Subs Collide
British, French subs collide in Atlantic; Both say nuclear safety not compromised
By DAVID STRINGER
The Associated Press

LONDON

Nuclear-armed submarines from Britain and France collided deep under the Atlantic Ocean earlier this month, causing damage to both vessels but releasing no radioactivity, a British official said Monday.

The British government official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the issue. The incident was first reported by a British newspaper, the Sun.

The HMS Vanguard, Britain's first Trident class nuclear-armed submarine, and the French Le Triomphant submarine, which was also carrying nuclear missiles, both suffered minor damage.

The British official said the Vanguard's "deterrent capability remained unaffected and there was no compromise to nuclear safety." No members of the crew were injured.

The HMS Vanguard, which went into operation in 1994, is one of Britain's four nuclear-powered submarines. Each is capable of carrying up to 16 nuclear-armed Trident missiles.

France's Defense Ministry said in a brief statement Feb. 6 that the Le Triomphant had struck "a submerged object (probably a container)" during a return from a patrol, damaging the sonar dome on the front of the submarine.

The French ministry did not confirm the date of the collision, nor did it make any mention of a British submarine.

It said in the statement that no crew members were injured and confirmed that the nuclear security of the submarine was not compromised.

After the accident, the French submarine returned to its base on L'Ile Longue on France's western tip under its own power, escorted as usual by a frigate, the ministry said.

The incident sparked concern among nuclear activists, who have long warned that nuclear submarines pose risks of radioactive leaks into the world's waters.

"This is a nuclear nightmare of the highest order," said Kate Hudson, chair of Britain's Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament. "The collision of two submarines, both with nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons onboard, could have released vast amounts of radiation and scattered scores of nuclear warheads across the seabed."

She called on British Prime Minister Gordon Brown to end patrols, which she said have at least one British nuclear sub in the Atlantic at all times.

Stephane Lhomme, a spokesman for the French anti-nuclear group Sortir du Nucleaire, said its network of activists is on alert for any signs of radioactive leaks near French shores.

"This reminds us that we could have a new catastrophe with a nuclear submarine at any moment. It is a risk that exists during missions but also in port," he said. "These are mobile nuclear reactors."

Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.

Copyright © 2009 ABC News Internet Ventures

Well, that's one hell of an "oops".

Do we still need this arm of the nuclear triad? Are SSBNs an effective nuclear deterrent?

Do France and the United Kingdom still need their own nuclear weapons?

As an American I'm curious; all too often I hear that it was "America vs. the USSR" during the Cold War, with no credit given to Europe. -_-

Leave it to the Brits to run into something in the ocean

So a bunch of activists with nothing better to do are now going to wast more time by sitting around the french coast looking for something that isn't there.

not surprising since subs are designed to run silent.

Leave it to the Brits to run into something in the oceanHey, if we can manage to both run the USS Enterprise into a sandbar in the middle of the damned San Francisco Bay (with Captain Sulu aboard, no less) and sink a Japanese research vessel with the sail of the USS Greeneville (in the middle of the Pacific Ocean), I think that the Brits are entitled to a couple of fumbles. ;)

Great.

not surprising since subs are designed to run silent.

Well, I understand that, and it's a testament to the skill of those designers that these huge vessels can become black holes for noise, but I suppose I'm just wondering what kind of coordination there is between the Royal Navy and the French Navy (the US Navy as well, for that matter).

Do they have any clue where their allies are operating nuke boats?

Well, I understand that, and it's a testament to the skill of those designers that these huge vessels can become black holes for noise, but I suppose I'm just wondering what kind of coordination there is between the Royal Navy and the French Navy (the US Navy as well, for that matter).

Do they have any clue where their allies are operating nuke boats?

does get a tad disconcerning doesn't it?

Well, I understand that, and it's a testament to the skill of those designers that these huge vessels can become black holes for noise, but I suppose I'm just wondering what kind of coordination there is between the Royal Navy and the French Navy (the US Navy as well, for that matter).

Do they have any clue where their allies are operating nuke boats?

I am willing to bet no. After all if we shared the info with the allies it becomes that much easier to locate them via espionage.

Huh...obviously the British need to work on their ramming, the French boat's still functioning.

does get a tad disconcerning doesn't it?To be honest, the image of two anthromorphized submarines clutching hands to their broken noses brought a smile to my face, but yes, the notion that one day we're going to have to retrieve a couple dozen nuclear weapons from the seabed isn't exactly a good thought.

On the other hand, maybe that'd give the Glomar Explorer a chance to do something other than deep-sea drilling for once.

To be honest, the image of two anthromorphized submarines clutching hands to their broken noses brought a smile to my face, but yes, the notion that one day we're going to have to retrieve a couple dozen nuclear weapons from the seabed isn't exactly a good thought.

Who's this 'we'? If it goes down in international waters, salvage rights might apply.

Who's this 'we'? If it goes down in international waters, salvage rights might apply.

NSG of course. We could do with a couple of nukes.

Who's this 'we'? If it goes down in international waters, salvage rights might apply.By 'we', I meant NSG. Seems like we'd know what to do with 'em.

I'd give one to NERV, one to CM and another to Nanatsu. Between the three of 'em this could either be really good or really, really bad.

EDIT: Damn, beaten! :D

Who's this 'we'? If it goes down in international waters, salvage rights might apply.

I think you'll find that rules pertaining to salvaging in international waters do not apply to nuclear weapons :p

I like how the uber-patriotic newspaper, the one that permanently runs stories about 'Our Lads' on every page (apart from page 3 of course) is the first to report on a screw up the government did. Then again, they most likely said it was the French's fault.

NSG of course. We could do with a couple of nukes.
There is no more effective weapon of mass destruction than NSG.

Then again, they most likely said it was the French's fault.Ah, the eternal question: If two silent submarines collide underwater, do they make a sound? ;)

I think you'll find that rules pertaining to salvaging in international waters do not apply to nuclear weapons :p

Pooh. I can think of a few Soviet and American nuclear subs, some of their model types known to carry nuclear tipped torpedoes, that have gone down with no known salvage attempts made on them.

All you have to do is find the wreck. Besides, if it's a Soviet sub, who's going to claim property rights on it? The Soviet Union's gone.

NSG of course. We could do with a couple of nukes.

I always wanted to be a nuclear power. I wonder how much Aid i could get from the US for disarming.

I always wanted to be a nuclear power. I wonder how much Aid i could get from the US for disarming.

Enough to retire to a large island where all Generalities can live together in peace and harmony and the massive debates.

Enough to retire to a large island where all Generalities can live together in peace and harmony and the massive debates.

People we need to salvage some nukes and pick an island.

Ah, the eternal question: If two silent submarines collide underwater, do they make a sound? ;)

yes. GOOOOOOONNNNNNNNG

Pooh. I can think of a few Soviet and American nuclear subs, some of their model types known to carry nuclear tipped torpedoes, that have gone down with no known salvage attempts made on them.

All you have to do is find the wreck. Besides, if it's a Soviet sub, who's going to claim property rights on it? The Soviet Union's gone.Well, Project Jennifer during the Cold War winched up a decent-sized chunk of a USSR submarine, including a couple of its nuclear torpedoes.

A lot of these boats go down in incredibly deep water, and that necessitates some very heavy equipment to drag back up. The cover story to explain what the Glomar Explorer was doing in the Pacific Ocean was ridiculously intricate. It's difficult to drive such big toys over a sunken submarine without causing an international incident.

People we need to salvage some nukes and pick an island.Alternately, we could use the nukes to create our own Godzilla, then pick a country.

You guys are thinking too small. As long as you don't mind destroyed landmarks and bus-sized lizard footprints all over the pavement.

yes. GOOOOOOONNNNNNNNGI don't think they've created a Facepalm Image yet that can adequately express how bad that was. :D

People we need to salvage some nukes and pick an island.

Non Aligned States seems to know where a few of these subs are.

Lead away NAS

We could do with a couple of nukes.

*Emerges from shadows*

I'm listening.

GTFO of our way, Frenchies. Britannia rules the waves :D

GTFO of our way, Frenchies. Britannia rules the waves :DOkay, but the waves are only on the surface.

I think it's anybody's show down below. ^^

Leave it to the Brits to run into something in the ocean

yes they really have a act for it

Alternately, we could use the nukes to create our own Godzilla, then pick a country.


I pick Luxembourg. Godzilla could probably cross it in about 6 steps, which would add to the hilarity.

Do France and the United Kingdom still need their own nuclear weapons?
Of course: Neither set has ever really been for potential use against Russia (or China, or the USA or "rogue nations"), the British and French have been covertly threatening 'MAD' against each other... ;)

Of course: Neither set has ever really been for potential use against Russia (or China, or the USA or "rogue nations"), the British and French have been covertly threatening 'MAD' against each other... ;)

Oh come on. We all know the French would surrender if we so much as aimed a missile at them. Or a slightly angry duck, for that matter.

I pick Luxembourg. Godzilla could probably cross it in about 6 steps, which would add to the hilarity.I think going for Monaco would simplify things, given that Godzilla could just swim in from offshore and crush the entire government within about 12 seconds of making landfall.

Then again, France might be unhappy if he chucked a couple of yachts over the border.

Then again, France might be unhappy if he chucked a couple of yachts over the border.

What are they gonna do, throw cheese at him?

Non Aligned States seems to know where a few of these subs are.

Lead away NAS

can we staff the island with midgets ??
And make them shout the plane the plane every time a plane fly's by.

Okay, but the waves are only on the surface.

I think it's anybody's show down below. ^^

Actually, thats not quite right. Under the terms of the 1892 Seas Agreement, Britain owns the entirety of the world's oceans. Before engaging in sea travel, the captain of a ship must first pay a duty of ten shillings to Queen Victoria, or be sentenced to be blinded by being forced to look through a telescope at the sun, which never sets on the British Empire :p

It seems the Stupid has spread outside of the Interwebs.

What are they gonna do, throw cheese at him?Cowardly and spineless they may be, but I have no doubt that France is willing to repurpose the Large Hadron Collider to defeat a large, angry lizard.

After all, it can supposedly find the God particle. Defeating a giant iguana shouldn't be a problem for the eggheads at CERN.

Actually, thats not quite right. Under the terms of the 1892 Seas Agreement, Britain owns the entirety of the world's oceans. Before engaging in sea travel, the captain of a ship must first pay a duty of ten shillings to Queen Victoria, or be sentenced to be blinded by being forced to look through a telescope at the sun, which never sets on the British Empire :p

Hmmm.

Can I borrow your telescope?

Cowardly and spineless they may be, but I have no doubt that France is willing to repurpose the Large Hadron Collider to defeat a large, angry lizard.

They'll surrender long before then.

They'll surrender long before then.But I thought we just wanted Monaco.

...actually, this all stemmed from a planned invasion of Luxembourg. :confused:

How about we compromise and just go blow up Tokyo again?

How about we compromise and just go blow up Tokyo again?

You'd have thought they might be ready this time, but apparently not.

You'd have thought they might be ready this time, but apparently not.The Tokyo Police Cataclysm Division is having its budget shaved to ribbons by the economic downturn. -13% economic growth? They can't afford to fire their Satellite Lasers or deploy their Gundams!

This is Godzilla's moment to shine!

Non Aligned States seems to know where a few of these subs are.

Lead away NAS

You just want to get a jump ahead on me- I mean, I wouldn't know anything about where these wrecks are, nope, nope, nope.

You just want to get a jump ahead on me- I mean, I wouldn't know anything about where these wrecks are, nope, nope, nope.You put 'em on the bottom in the first place, I'd wager.

Ah, the eternal question: If two silent submarines collide underwater, do they make a sound? ;)

Yes, it goes KKBKKKRKBKKSKSKKSKHKSHKSKKKHKRPKRPKRH. I asked a dolphin.
*man walks past chuckling* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGGEfPSYN8M&feature=related)

Do France and the United Kingdom still need their own nuclear weapons?

As an American I'm curious; all too often I hear that it was "America vs. the USSR" during the Cold War, with no credit given to Europe. -_-

Yes, they do, as much as the USA or Russia needs them. And why them? Well, we certainly can't trust the EU with it.

This is obviously an intent for war. Ready the bayonets!

Britain and France are allies, are they not?

It seems likely to me that the two vessels were on manoeuvres together. Someone stuffed up (obviously).

The real question is why haven't the French Surrendered yet. We clearly saw through their high-tech hiding technology on their submarine so their tried and tested hiding tactics are useless.

http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/3250/654pxenglandexpectssignlb1.png

not that British and French seamen would ever have a history of intentionally scratching and denting each others vessels in the best of times oh no >_>

It seems likely to me that the two vessels were on manoeuvres together. Someone stuffed up (obviously).

don't be silly the Royal Navy is far more inclined towards the Dutch especially with Frances history with nuclear weapons *shudders*

Well, that's one hell of an "oops".

Do we still need this arm of the nuclear triad? Are SSBNs an effective nuclear deterrent?

Possibily the most effective part of the nuclear deterrent. It is very difficult to intercept the sub before it has launched; the SLBMs have shorter flight times, thus granting effective first-strike capability; and SSBNs are more likely to survive a nuclear first-strike on the mainland.


Do France and the United Kingdom still need their own nuclear weapons?

In a world without nuclear-armed countries, no they wouldn't.
In a world with nuclear weapons galore (even almost-third-world countries got nukes now - Pakistan!), I'd say they'll never be willing to let go of their deterrent (which is quite small if compared to the monster stacks of Russia and USA).


Btw, knowing the stubborness of both UK and French military, it's likely that it was a sort of "you yield!" "cedez le passage!" match between the commanders.

Well, we certainly can't trust the EU with it.

Be fair; you can't trust the EU with anything. I mean, the Euro is only the currency for countries that don't have enough fampus people to put on their notes. :tongue:

Yes, they do, as much as the USA or Russia needs them. And why them? Well, we certainly can't trust the EU with it.

And, as much as EUnionist as I am, I have to agree.

The EU cannot even agree on an unitary foreign policy most of the time. :( Let's NOT imagine what sort of a hell would break loose if there had to be an EU control over EU-countries' nukes. Very likely some nukes would get lost beneath a freak-wave of bureaucracy documents.

No way, the EU isnt' ready yet.

Be fair; you can't trust the EU with anything. I mean, the Euro is only the currency for countries that don't have enough fampus people to put on their notes. :tongue:

Be fair; you can trust the EU with making a lot of people annoyed ;)

Be fair; you can't trust the EU with anything. I mean, the Euro is only the currency for countries that don't have enough fampus people to put on their notes. :tongue:

Or maybe it's the currency for countries that have TOO many famous people. We cannot have a different banknote for each integer between 5 and 1'000'000 (and we still would be letting some people out, I fear). :)

Be fair; you can trust the EU with making a lot of people annoyed ;)
Of course. I never quite understood the mentality of getting a bunch of nations who hate each other and sticking them together.

Or maybe it's the currency for countries that have TOO many famous people. We cannot have a different banknote for each integer between 5 and 1'000'000 (and we still would be letting some people out, I fear). :)

Italy doesn't count. *covers with rug* I thought Italy still had the Lira? That said, I have been to Italy since 2000, I might be a teensy bit out of date. :D

Of course. I never quite understood the mentality of getting a bunch of nations who hate each other and sticking them together.
It's just that we would hate having ANOTHER war far more than we hate each other.



Italy doesn't count. *covers with rug* I thought Italy still had the Lira? That said, I have been to Italy since 2000, I might be a teensy bit out of date. :D
Still, I think that you can get newspapers where you live. Italy entered the Euro the very moment the Euro was released (that is, the same time Germany and France did).

Btw, EVEN without Italy, it's not like Greece, France, Germany, Austria, Spain etc wouldn't have enough famous people, don't you think so? Just think of painters and musicians.

they should of kept a closer eye out for nuclear wessels (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdSJFrhb-HM)

It's just that we would hate having ANOTHER war far more than we hate each other.

Still, I think that you can get newspapers where you live. Italy entered the Euro the very moment the Euro was released (that is, the same time Germany and France did).

Btw, EVEN without Italy, it's not like Greece, France, Germany, Austria, Spain etc wouldn't have enough famous people, don't you think so? Just think of painters and musicians.

It was only a joke :rolleyes: But you win anyway.

Huh...obviously the British need to work on their ramming, the French boat's still functioning.

hehehehehe.... though i am surprised we couldn't smell the garlic and cheese under the water... ;)

I'm sure this is gonna cause alot of dumb ass hippies to say " OMFG NUCLEAR POWER KILLS EVERYONE "

I'm sure this is gonna cause alot of dumb ass hippies to say " OMFG NUCLEAR POWER KILLS EVERYONE "

Read the article, people are already whining.

I'm sure this is gonna cause alot of dumb ass hippies to say " OMFG NUCLEAR POWER KILLS EVERYONE "

I like to know what you would do if your having a gentle paddle one day and out of nowhere pops a French nuclear submarine

think of the children!

Fucking French drivers -_-

You can't treat the Atlantic Ocean like the Avenue des Champs Elysées, chaps, it's just not cricket.

Fucking French drivers -_-

You can't treat the Atlantic Ocean like the Avenue des Champs Elysées, chaps, it's just not cricket.

i am sorry the rest of the world drives on the right side of the channel.

Britain and France are allies, are they not?

To paraphrase Sir Humphery Appleby.

Sure they are allies now but they have been fighting each other for the past 900 years.