NationStates Jolt Archive

I quite enjoy watching FOX on Sundays, partly I enjoy seeing different points of view since there's little I can learn if I only listen to those I agree with, seeing different points of view allow me to refine my own.

It also helps me talk to people with a different point of view on things since I can better understand the background of where they're coming from.

I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong, well not everything, I'm occasionally mistaken, just that we seem to be coming from different places.

So, just before Huckabee, I have Glenn Beck and he mentioned, once again, his 9 principles...

The Nine Principles

1. America is good.

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me

What thinks NSG, I have issues with 2, 4, 7 outright, others I'd need to expand in order to qualify, overall it seems to show a lack of awareness for the reality of life in America, not that I'm American so perhaps my point of view is moot.

Link to Glenn Beck site outlining these (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/21018/)

I quite enjoy watching FOX on Sundays, partly I enjoy seeing different points of view since there's little I can learn if I only listen to those I agree with, seeing different points of view allow me to refine my own.

It also helps me talk to people with a different point of view on things since I can better understand the background of where they're coming from.

I'm not saying I'm right and they're wrong, well not everything, I'm occasionally mistaken, just that we seem to be coming from different places.

So, just before Huckabee, I have Glenn Beck and he mentioned, once again, his 9 principles...



What thinks NSG, I have issues with 2, 4, 7 outright, others I'd need to expand in order to qualify, overall it seems to show a lack of awareness for the reality of life in America, not that I'm American so perhaps my point of view is moot.

Link to Glenn Beck site outlining these (http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/21018/)His eyes are following me! Make them stop!
Make him doink his mommy for the kingship, and having to spike his eyes! Please!

Oh yeah, interesting that you bring him up after Colbert had at him ... so gracefully ... this very week, in his "Probing Look at Glenn Beck".
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=6911

The OP ... answer:

The Nine Principles

1. America is good. That's relative. There's a lot of good in it.

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life. Utter fucking bullshit.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday. Nope.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government. Yep.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it. Sometimes. Laws change and are altered to serve state interests over private interests.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. Fair assessment, but i'm not convinced of any of it further than my willingness to engage in it.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable. Not a bad sentiment but most certainly not an idea protected by even my constitution.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. I've probably already posted about this.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me. Again an appreciable sentiment, but not realistic, even if i fight to keep a perspective favourable to it.

That sums it up, generally.

Today was fun, the Iranian satellite rocket is a 'message' of 'hope', at least that's what the rocket and satellite are called, or something - Safir/Omad

Ah, but it's not a message of hope in terms of reaching for the stars, it's a specific message of hope that Iran is hastening the coming of the Mahdi, whereby he needs to destroy Israel and America (little and great Satan) in order to set the scene for the coming of the aforesaid Mahdi.

Anyway, sidetrack, the question is whether these 9 principles are the blueprint for America, I note you put family first, just your family or anyone's family, what if another family wants to wipe out your family as the spawn of the devil, and we all know you have twins cloned from me so, not a bad thought, government intervention?

Looks like #7 will be compromised the next time he pays income tax or sales tax. It must be hard having a principle it is impossible not to compromise on a daily basis.

Today was fun, the Iranian satellite rocket is a 'message' of 'hope', at least that's what the rocket and satellite are called, or something - Safir/Omad

Ah, but it's not a message of hope in terms of reaching for the stars, it's a specific message of hope that Iran is hastening the coming of the Mahdi, whereby he needs to destroy Israel and America (little and great Satan) in order to set the scene for the coming of the aforesaid Mahdi.

Anyway, sidetrack, the question is whether these 9 principles are the blueprint for America, I note you put family first, just your family or anyone's family, what if another family wants to wipe out your family as the spawn of the devil, and we all know you have twins cloned from me so, not a bad thought, government intervention?Well, i'll sum up that i'm already wary of other peoples' delusions, be they entire philosophies and political structures or mere barely-audible musings in the din of the subway. Perhaps they are the spawn of the devil, but if they really knew anything about that philosophy, they'd know it wasn't up to them to do anything about it anyway.
:)

I take major issue with number 5. 'The Law' and 'Justice' are in no way guaranteed to be synonymous. If one breaks a law which is unjust, one should not be punished for it. Nobody should be above justice, certainly, but the belief that all laws are inherently just is completely incorrect. When the law banned blacks from marrying whites, it was not just. Breaking that law did not deserve prison time, but rather the changing of the law.

I take major issue with number 5. 'The Law' and 'Justice' are in no way guaranteed to be synonymous. If one breaks a law which is unjust, one should not be punished for it. Nobody should be above justice, certainly, but the belief that all laws are inherently just is completely incorrect. When the law banned blacks from marrying whites, it was not just. Breaking that law did not deserve prison time, but rather the changing of the law.

That's a very fair point, I'd taken it as equality before the law but your point is entirely valid and correct, in my opinion.

I'll just go point by point.

The Nine Principles (Of Glenn Beck)

1. America is good. Totally oblivious to American imperialism, interventionism, and economic exploitation. I'll apologize for my totally oblivious fellow citizens

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life. Most Americans claim this but it is really the All-Mighty Dollar. They want the best for themselves and their families, but often in excess

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday. For Right wingers on Fox News....lol

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government. Then please stop complaining about gay marriage and abortion. Can other families be sacred and be the ultimate authority too?

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it. Statistics of racial profiling, corrupt law enforcement, recently the shooting of an penned down Oscar Grant in California. Really? Justice is blind?

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. To them this only applies to Americans having these rights

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable. Yea ok lets see you share it then. If we went by this model people would be starving in the streets now despite Christian claims of the Right

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. WHERE WAS THIS SENTIMENT WHEN GEORGE BUSH WAS PRESIDENT?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!? WHERE WAS THIS?!?!?!?!?!?!?...sorry just had to point out

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me. Well I guess our Congress continually selling us out to lobbyists and big business have shown this is not put into practice.


Overall screw you Glenn Beck you pretentious bastard.

I like those nine principles, although they run a second best to the original Ten.

Oh yeah, interesting that you bring him up after Colbert had at him ... so gracefully ... this very week, in his "Probing Look at Glenn Beck".

This may surprise a lot of people, but Colbert isn't actually anything like a real journalist. He's an unfunny comedian who owes his entire career to the people he spends it making fun of.

I like those nine principles, although they run a second best to the original Ten.

Fair enough, I should add an amusing poll, I guarantee the poll, 'amusing' not so much.

I do think it shows a certain amount of maturity in that you're willing to seek out and listen to other points of view, and rationally consider them.

The Nine Principles

1. America is good.

America, both as a continent and as short for "the United States of America" is not the kind of entity that can have the property "good" assigned to it.
And if we're talking about moral "goodness", that is up to individuals, and their own interpretation of it. No group of people can be solely "good" or "bad" in that respect, at best they can consider themselves "righteous".

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

Too Many Capitals.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

But hey, I've been totally honest yesterday, so how can I...

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

I ain't got no spouse, and never will, so again: irrelevant.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

Should be, but hey, welcome to the real world.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

You have no rights, you just exist because your existence is not being ended by something or someone. This does not mean that there's anything wrong with pursuing liberty and happiness. By all means, do!

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

Oh yes they can. What's more: oh yes they do.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

According to some it is. But hey, something like 90-some% of the world's population is not US American, so don't sweat it!

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me.

Yeah right. Dream on.

So.. about 4...
If the good man wishes to sexually molest his children, he should be allowed because the family is more important than the government ?

I actually agree with 3, though the guy is a friggin hypcrite for declaring it. 2 I disagree with, and the rest is broadly acceptable, though a bit simplistic.

I like those nine principles, although they run a second best to the original Ten.



This may surprise a lot of people, but Colbert isn't actually anything like a real journalist. He's an unfunny comedian who owes his entire career to the people he spends it making fun of.
duh

his glenn beck bit was hilarious and insightful though

This may surprise a lot of people, but Colbert isn't actually anything like a real journalist. He's an unfunny comedian who owes his entire career to the people he spends it making fun of.

Nothing like a real journalist, sure you are right on. Unfunny? Really? What?

Nothing like a real journalist, sure you are right on. Unfunny? Really? What?

With the admitted caveat that few things are as subjective as humor, I say that he's unfunny. Much like Jon Stewart, he's a little too smugly self-aware that he's Being Funny to actually be funny. If he just wore a sign that said 'Hey Everybody, Look At How Satirical I'm Being! Aren't I Hip And Ironic!' it'd be more subtle.

1. America is good.

"America is good" =/= "America is infallible" nor does "America is good" = "The rest of the world is bad".

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.

Good for you. Now, prove that your vision of God is correct, and then explain why your beliefs should be mine.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.

Nice sentiment. Get that off a fortune cookie?

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.

And if parents reneg on their responsibilty?

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.

Except, apparently, Republican administrations. Eh, Beck? Long live the plutocracy.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

Well, as there is not equal opportunity, I suppose there wouldn't be equal results.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

Are there no prisons? Are there no workhouses? I find the "I'd give to charity, if the government didn't take my money" arguement to be hypocritical and just a little nauseating.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.

It is, however, apparently un-American to disagree with Beck and his ilk.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me

"Unless it's an administration I agree with, in which case, I'll blindly follow them and denounce anyone who doesn't."

The Nine Principles

1. America is good. Depends on what is meant by 'America' and what is meant by 'good.' Do the American people and government happen to be outwardly better than some other places? Yes, but it's not good, and is rapidly deteriorating.

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life. Absolutely agree.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday. Absolutely agree.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government. Eh, ish. The family authorities (mothers and fathers) are the authority in some situations (like education) and the government is others (protecting its citizens), but God is the ultimate over both. They are two separate institutions (the Church being a third) with separate roles, separate powers and separate responsibilities that both should be working under the authority of God and to His glory.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it. Absolutely agree.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results. Ish. Speaking in a divine, cosmic sense, life, liberty and pursuit of happiness are privileges granted by God in His forbearance, not rights. The only natural right we have is to be receive the consequence of our actions, which because all our actions are sinful, is death. God has been merciful and not given us that immediately, and so we are divinely granted with several privileges, which no lesser powers, including governments, may take away, so we may (almost erroneously) call them political rights. These are rights to exercise, not promises to secure. And even when we do exercise them, we are not guaranteed to be blessed with the same results as our neighbor.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable. God has been merciful to us and has lavished on us and we must do the same to others. But my responsibility to give does not give you the right to take. Jesus said to give the caesar what belongs to caesar, not to give to caesar what belongs to you and not for caesar to take what belongs to you and give to your neighbor.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion. I agree, but why does it matter whether it's 'American' or not? Doesn't it matter more whether it's moral or not? And even if you disagree, you are still to submit to the powers over you, so long as such submission does not require that you disobey God.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me Disagree. The government and the individual are both to work for God. The government is over the individual. The individual answers to the self, the family, the government and the Church all of which in turn answer to God. Some forms of government may give you varying degrees of power to determine how things in the government flow, so there is a sense in which the government may answer to you, but the ultimate authority is God.

1. America is good.
America exists. It is neither good nor bad.

2. I believe in God and He is the Center of my Life.
Good for you. I don't.

3. I must always try to be a more honest person than I was yesterday.
Meh. Lies are sometimes necessary, if they don't make you feel bad about telling them.

4. The family is sacred. My spouse and I are the ultimate authority, not the government.
No. The government's authority is higher than the family's. But it lies in different areas; the government cannot tell a family how to raise a child, and a family cannot tell the government how to run a nation.

5. If you break the law you pay the penalty. Justice is blind and no one is above it.
Untrue. Those with sufficient power and influence are above the law. "Justice" is only relevant if you believe in some divine or extrahumanistic form thereof.

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.
You have a right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness if you have earned those rights. Those who (such as violent criminals) have displayed a willingness to infringe on those rights are undeserving of them.

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.
The government has authority over your income. If it chooses to take away portions of that income for its own purposes, including charitable purposes, there is nothing you can do to stop it. It is not the place of the individual to decide what the government does, and individuals should accept the services they receive in exchange for the portions of their income taken for government use.

8. It is not un-American for me to disagree with authority or to share my personal opinion.
Correct. It would be un-American if you were Canadian, however, or British, or South African, as all of those are un-American nations.

9. The government works for me. I do not answer to them, they answer to me
Incorrect. The government works for all of the citizens of the nation it rules. If individual needs must be set aside or sacrificed for the benefit of the rest of the nation, so be it.

I'm not sure whether these are intended to describe the way things are, or the way things should be. Seems like the latter to me as they don't reflect the way things really work. I don't really agree with his views in that case, but I tend to disagree with just about everyone I know to some degree, so meh.

I agree with numbers 5-9, if you replace the 'me' in number 9 to 'Us' (meaning the voting populace of the USA)

Edit: and I mean those are how things should be, not the way things are. I realize bribery and fame can get out of #5, and the government CAN force me to be charitiable (as it does to everyone who pays taxes), and that the government rarely answers for what it's done (until the next administration).