NationStates Jolt Archive

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?

The reason I brought this up is because I started watching Sweeney Todd last night, and I had no idea it was a musical. I absolutely hate musicals, so I turned it off. My best friend said it's worth watching though.

Maybe I'll watch it.

Oh yeah, what's your favorite or least favorite musical?

I really hate when characters break out into song. It throws off the story. It's a weak cop out for stories that would otherwise be short and sweet. I mean, do you really have to spend ten minutes singing about how you can't find your keys?!

If it counts, The Wickerman is a damn good musical.

I'm indifferent to them really. It always seems very unnatural and a bit silly when characters burst into song, so initially it throws me a bit. But if its good, I'll probably end up enjoying it.

I hate musicals. I've no real idea how I came to dislike them so much, but I do. I mean, it's not as if I don't like music (I do), and I love movies. I also like the occasional stage play, but if the cast starts singing it just ruins it all for me. I can't even stand the song'n'dance sections in things like The Simpsons, to the point where I'll mute the TV if it all starts up.

Their appeal is a mystery to me, really. I've been told that I "have no soul" or "need to lighten up and just go with it" (usually by my wife, who loves musicals), but I just can't enjoy them. I find them excruciatingly cringe-worthy, to the point that I actually start to feel embarrassed for those taking part (which is ridiculous, I know), so I just avoid them altogether... different tastes, and all that.



(Edit: it's just occurred to me that I'm actually quite fond of a whole slew of concept albums which are, let's face it, just the same sort of idea... a story set to music. I don't think I'd have any real problem with going to see a live performance of any of them, so I guess that might make me a bit of a hypocrite)

I usually hate musicals. However, my three secret shames are Chicago, the Producers and the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Because, who doesn't like a transexual transvanian vampire/alien?

Their appeal is a mystery to me, really. I've been told that I "have no soul" or "need to lighten up and just go with it" (usually by my wife, who loves musicals), but I just can't enjoy them. I find them excruciatingly cringe-worthy, to the point that I actually start to feel embarrassed for those taking part (which is ridiculous, I know), so I just avoid them altogether... different tastes, and all that.

This brings up another question, are females more inclined to enjoy musicals? From my life experiences, it seems this way. With the exception of Kryozerkia of course:p

I love musicals, and the actual Sweeney Todd (the stage show, not the mediocre movie) is one of the most amazing things ever. I really don't understand how people can object to them on the grounds that people breaking into song isn't terribly realistic. Do you people also flip out at sci-fi and fantasy, cartoons, or in fact any work in the arts other than documentaries?

(Also, honestly, "hating musicals" indiscriminately is pretty much like "hating music" indiscriminately. How do you feel the same hatred for "Sweeney Todd" that you do for "State Fair"? It's like deciding that you hate opera on the basis that you didn't enjoy hip-hop.)

I went to one yesterday (Ciske de Rat- very Dutch ;) And also a real-life musical; not a movie with lots of singing).

When it is a cartoon, I quite enjoy movie-musicals. Especially things like Nightmare before Christmas and Corpse Bride. Even though it is another Burton product I did not really like the singing in Todd though. Perhaps it is the real life actor movie aspect.

However, I vastly prefer musicals on a stage. With actors you can shake hands with afterwards.

This brings up another question, are females more inclined to enjoy musicals? From my life experiences, it seems this way. With the exception of Kryozerkia of course:p

As an actual musician, no, this has not been my experience.

This brings up another question, are females more inclined to enjoy musicals? From my life experiences, it seems this way. With the exception of Kryozerkia of course:p

I love musicals, as does my husband, as do many of his male friends. It is a certain personality quirk I've found. Not everyone can appreciate musicals.

I went to one yesterday (Ciske de Rat- very Dutch ;) And also a real-life musical; not a movie with lots of singing).

When it is a cartoon, I quite enjoy movie-musicals. Especially things like Nightmare before Christmas and Corpse Bride. Even though it is another Burton product I did not really like the singing in Todd though. Perhaps it is the real life actor movie aspect.


I think it's more that Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter are shitty singers. Fabulous actors, but so not vocally up to what those roles demanded.

I rather like musicals. "Once More, With Feeling" was easily one of my favorite episodes of Buffy, I have a Dr. Horrible costume in my closet, and I have plans to attend the next DragonCon with a group of people as almost the entire cast of Repo! The Genetic Opera (I ended up with Repo Man/Nathan, though I can't sing nearly as well as Anthony Head.) I could go on and list more, but the point is, I think that a well-done musical is just awesome.

Can´t stand them usually.

But if they are right for the context of the story,
i.e. in a world where it is appropriate,
nay obligatory for everybody to start singing out of the blue,
then I´m OK with them.

I think it's more that Johnny Depp and Helena Bonham-Carter are shitty singers. Fabulous actors, but so not vocally up to what those roles demanded.

That indeed certainly did not help...

For those interested, a scene from Ciske. Good luck translating the Dutch :p
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvEjCzYve9c

One word of warning: the first sentences are expletives :p
Oh, the kid and the adult are the same person at different stages of their lifes. Their stories were interwoven beautifully on stage.

I'm not really a fan, but there have been great musicals. Mine will always be "The King and I".

Funny you should ask. I generally don't like musicals at all, but the other day I somehow watched Phantom of the Opera the 2004 movie, because I had nothing else to do and I thought it was not bad. It's based on the musical and of course I had never seen it. I don't think I'd like to get into musicals overall though, some people already think I'm gay.

Fiddler on the Roof is objectively the greatest ever.

I don't think I'd like to get into musicals overall though, some people already think I'm gay.
Wasn't someone just mentioning that her husband and his friends enjoy musicals? Further, I'm a straight guy and I enjoy musicals as well.

I've seen both Rent and Avenue Q on Broadway, and I enjoy several others already mentioned in this thread, like PotO and Rocky Horror.

Funny you should ask. I generally don't like musicals at all, but the other day I somehow watched Phantom of the Opera the 2004 movie, because I had nothing else to do and I thought it was not bad. It's based on the musical and of course I had never seen it. I don't think I'd like to get into musicals overall though, some people already think I'm gay.
The movie is naught but a cheap imitation. I had the good fortune to see it performed at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, and it brought a tear to my eye, and some present to sobs. Truly a thing of beauty.

Wasn't someone just mentioning that her husband and his friends enjoy musicals? Further, I'm a straight guy and I enjoy musicals as well.

I've seen both Rent and Avenue Q on Broadway, and I enjoy several others already mentioned in this thread, like PotO and Rocky Horror.

This. And anyway, so what if people think you're gay? Only a bigot would think that matters anyway.

The movie is naught but a cheap imitation. I had the good fortune to see it performed at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, and it brought a tear to my eye, and some present to sobs. Truly a thing of beauty.

Same basic story though, from what I hear, plot-wise at least, that's all I really meant. I'm sure the real thing is much different, I've never had a chance to see any musicals live, not "real" ones anyways.

This. And anyway, so what if people think you're gay? Only a bigot would think that matters anyway.

I don't, it was a joke, mostly. But still, it can be annoying if people think you're gay and you aren't. *Not that there's anything wrong with that!

I don't, it was a joke, mostly. But still, it can be annoying if people think you're gay and you aren't. *Not that there's anything wrong with that!

True that. It can also cause embarrassing situations. Thinking a girl returns your interest and then discovering she in fact believed you to be gay - and that that was the reason she was far more open to you than towards other guys for instance ;)

True that. It can also cause embarrassing situations. Thinking a girl returns your interest and then discovering she in fact believed you to be gay - and that that was the reason she was far more open to you than towards other guys for instance ;)

I'm gay, I swear! That sex was entirely platonic!

I'm gay, I swear! That sex was entirely platonic!

Awww, if only ;)

I like musicals. Especially Phantom of the Opera.

I saw Repo! The Genetic Opera recently and I really liked it. There's something about singing about repossessing people's organs that appeals to me, I don't know...:D

The movie is naught but a cheap imitation. I had the good fortune to see it performed at the Fox Theater in Atlanta, and it brought a tear to my eye, and some present to sobs. Truly a thing of beauty.

When I saw it live for the first time I couldn't breathe for a good ten minutes afterward. Amazing.

I liked Sweeney Todd, also does The Blues Brothers count as a Musical?

I like Les Miserables, personally. It's not the same as the book, but I thought it had a better flow, to be honest.

It depends on my mood, some really annoy me like joseph and the amazing technicolor dreamcoat, but others, usually those whose songs show some real emotion in the character are awesome like Phantom of the Opera, The King and I, My Fair Lady, CATS, Carousel, Les Miserables, etc.

I like some musicals. Mainly comedic operas, dark musicals, and a few modern comedies.
I really can't stand that mid-20th century rock/kitsch stuff, though. It is all irremediable shit.

My absolute favorite musical is "The Rocky Horror Picture Show."

True that. It can also cause embarrassing situations. Thinking a girl returns your interest and then discovering she in fact believed you to be gay - and that that was the reason she was far more open to you than towards other guys for instance ;)

I've never been in that situation. I don't transmit that gay vibe nor one of interest in being the lapdog of predictable girl talk. It's more like when some people see a guy either without a gf for a long time or chasing after them all the time, then it means gay.

But anyways, back to the topic. I think I know why I don't like musicals in general. It's thanks to all the crappy Disney cartoon films, all peppy and artificial. Maybe it's the same with others who were introduced to musicals this way.

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?

The reason I brought this up is because I started watching Sweeney Todd last night, and I had no idea it was a musical. I absolutely hate musicals, so I turned it off. My best friend said it's worth watching though.

Maybe I'll watch it.

Oh yeah, what's your favorite or least favorite musical?

I dislike a lot of them, cause I find movie and stage musical numbers and dance routines overblown and honestly kinda fail. This does, unfortunately, rule out the entire genre of Bollywood movies (which people think I'll like, cause I'm Indian)

Do you love em?

Love them. Can't get enough of them.

I'm not really a fan, but there have been great musicals. Mine will always be "The King and I".Little Shop of Horrors.

I like musicals. It's been quite a while since I saw one I didn't like. If done right, the music itself can heighten the emotional impact or make things more fun.

Two of my all time favorites are Rent and Wicked.

Musicals are like other movies. I like them or not depending on... well, whether I like them or not.

I did like Sweeney Todd, Chicago, Moulin Rouge, The King and I, Repo! The Genetic Opera, Phantom of the Opera... and Dr Horrible and Once More, With Feeling.

Musicals are unrealistic, and as such I do not like them. In RL people don't sing throughout conflicts they go through and they aren't all happy and shiny people either. They don't jump around and act giddy in the face of danger, strife, tragedy, or other things.

Musicals are unrealistic, and as such I do not like them.

Do you hate sci-fi and fantasy as well?

In RL people don't sing throughout conflicts they go through and they aren't all happy and shiny people either. They don't jump around and act giddy in the face of danger, strife, tragedy, or other things.

Are you under the impression that all musicals are happy?

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?

The reason I brought this up is because I started watching Sweeney Todd last night, and I had no idea it was a musical. I absolutely hate musicals, so I turned it off. My best friend said it's worth watching though.

Maybe I'll watch it.

Oh yeah, what's your favorite or least favorite musical?

Sweeny Todd is a great musical.

So are Les Miserables and The Wizard of Oz. For me like with anything else it really depends on the content of the musical; in honesty I don't like most musicals because their content is crap.

I have been in several musicals I liked, such as a production of West Side Story. Anyone else done stage acting?

Musicals are unrealistic, and as such I do not like them. In RL people don't sing throughout conflicts...

You don't watch many movies, do you.

Can't watch action movies, can't watch sci-fi, can't watch horror, can't watch animations, can't watch musicals...

What do you watch? History Channel? (Not that all of that is entirely 'realistic').

Musicals are unrealistic, and as such I do not like them. In RL people don't sing throughout conflicts they go through and they aren't all happy and shiny people either. They don't jump around and act giddy in the face of danger, strife, tragedy, or other things.

Realism be damned! Music can take a scene and amplify whatever emotion you're feeling.

Take Dr. Horrible for instance:

Look at these people
Amazing how sheeple
Show up for the slaughter.

No one condemning you
Lined up like lemmings you
Led to the Water

That song never fails to be both awesome and chilling...

...Until Hammer ruins it, of course.

WAAAAAAAAAAY!

I dislike a lot of them, cause I find movie and stage musical numbers and dance routines overblown and honestly kinda fail. This does, unfortunately, rule out the entire genre of Bollywood movies (which people think I'll like, cause I'm Indian)

You're telling me you didn't think Asoka was awesome?

Are you under the impression that all musicals are happy?

Well, gosh, Dem, what could be happier than people being murdered and cannibalized by a guy who's still bitter about his wife's brutal rape? Or a rather nice little schmuck turning into a serial killer with the help of a plant that eventually eats his girlfriend? Or a convict spending his whole life being pursued by the police for horribly trivial crimes? Or a crazed, deformed genius who stalks, kidnaps, and murders opera employees? Or a bunch of unemployed artists struggling with AIDS and drug addiction? Or a poor Jewish family watching their traditions crumble around them as they are evicted from their village? Or a couple of stone-cold bitches who kill their men and game the system to get away with it with the help of a sleazeball lawyer? HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!

(And that's just sticking with ones I specifically remember seeing mentioned in this thread...) :p

Well, gosh, Dem, what could be happier than people being murdered and cannibalized by a guy who's still bitter about his wife's brutal rape? Or a rather nice little schmuck turning into a serial killer with the help of a plant that eventually eats his girlfriend? Or a convict spending his whole life being pursued by the police for horribly trivial crimes? Or a crazed, deformed genius who stalks, kidnaps, and murders opera employees? Or a bunch of unemployed artists struggling with AIDS and drug addiction? Or a poor Jewish family watching their traditions crumble around them as they are evicted from their village? Or a couple of stone-cold bitches who kill their men and game the system to get away with it with the help of a sleazeball lawyer? HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!

(And that's just sticking with ones I specifically remember seeing mentioned in this thread...) :p

Or a young woman's lover accidently kills her brother in self defence and a war breaks out in the streets.

People assume that they are happy because there is music.

Avenue Q
Batboy
Urinetown
Spamalot
Cabaret
Flora, the Red Menace
The Robber Bridegroom
Little Mary Sunshine
The Fantasticks
The 1940s Radio Hour
City of Angels
Assassins
A Little Night Music
Sweeney Todd
Little Shop of Horrors

Well, gosh, Dem, what could be happier than people being murdered and cannibalized by a guy who's still bitter about his wife's brutal rape? Or a rather nice little schmuck turning into a serial killer with the help of a plant that eventually eats his girlfriend? Or a convict spending his whole life being pursued by the police for horribly trivial crimes? Or a crazed, deformed genius who stalks, kidnaps, and murders opera employees? Or a bunch of unemployed artists struggling with AIDS and drug addiction? Or a poor Jewish family watching their traditions crumble around them as they are evicted from their village? Or a couple of stone-cold bitches who kill their men and game the system to get away with it with the help of a sleazeball lawyer? HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY!

(And that's just sticking with ones I specifically remember seeing mentioned in this thread...) :p

Is it sad that I knew all but one of those from the description, despite not having seen some of them?

People assume that they are happy because there is music.

These people have clearly not heard some of the gut-wrenching moments in Rent (not to mention other musicals, but this one can make me cry just listening to the soundtrack). Anyone who could hear Collins at Angel's funeral
or Mimi singing "Goodbye Love" and think its happy has no soul.

Is it sad that I knew all but one of those from the description, despite not having seen some of them?



These people have clearly not heard some of the gut-wrenching moments in Rent (not to mention other musicals, but this one can make me cry just listening to the soundtrack). Anyone who could hear Collins at Angel's funeral
or Mimi singing "Goodbye Love" and think its happy has no soul.

It seems that I'm soulless, then. Rent is so mawkish that it's difficult to like. I can appreciate the enthusiasm and energy, but the overall effect is that the show tries way too hard and trips over itself trying to get you to empathize. "Oh look, it's a romantic number, but it's really about heroin." Yawn.

Musicals are unrealistic, and as such I do not like them. In RL people don't sing throughout conflicts they go through and they aren't all happy and shiny people either. They don't jump around and act giddy in the face of danger, strife, tragedy, or other things.

*facepalm*

Psst! There are no "spider-men" in RL, either. Also, just about every romantic comedy is beyond unrealistic, if that's your definition. So tell me, what's the point of escapism if you refuse to escape?

Little Shop of Horrors.

Agreed. Especially the ending.

Is it sad that I knew all but one of those from the description, despite not having seen some of them?

Is it sad that I could write similar synopses for a hundred or so more shows? :p


These people have clearly not heard some of the gut-wrenching moments in Rent (not to mention other musicals, but this one can make me cry just listening to the soundtrack). Anyone who could hear Collins at Angel's funeral
or Mimi singing "Goodbye Love" and think its happy has no soul.

Indeed. I can only assume these people think all musicals are "The Sound of Music." (And even it had Nazis!)

It seems that I'm soulless, then. Rent is so mawkish that it's difficult to like. I can appreciate the enthusiasm and energy, but the overall effect is that the show tries way too hard and trips over itself trying to get you to empathize. "Oh look, it's a romantic number, but it's really about heroin." Yawn.

I think that's one of the things that depends a lot on the production. Rent definitely nudges at the overblown, so it's a fine line for a director to walk to keep it juuuuuuuuuuuust this side of "too much." I've seen it live twice, and one staging pulled it off, but the other one just didn't.

Also, Rent is kinda one of those generational things. People like me who were teenagers when it came out often can't help loving it a bit in spite of its flaws. :p

Agreed. Especially the ending.

"Suddenly Seymour" was my Evil Ex and I's song.

I'm really hoping I'll be able to love it again someday, because I swear I was born to play Audrey.

"Suddenly Seymour" was my Evil Ex and I's song.

I'm really hoping I'll be able to love it again someday, because I swear I was born to play Audrey.

Thats ok, I was born to play random victim X.

"Suddenly Seymour" was my Evil Ex and I's song.

I'm really hoping I'll be able to love it again someday, because I swear I was born to play Audrey.

I was the Voice of Audrey II. The director allowed me to go for an effete British accent for speaking, and as Levi Stubbs as my narrow white ass could get when singing. The effect on the audience was well worth the effort.

There's nothing like not having to do makeup or costume for a show and still have a major role. I have a face for voice-overs.

I think that's one of the things that depends a lot on the production. Rent definitely nudges at the overblown, so it's a fine line for a director to walk to keep it juuuuuuuuuuuust this side of "too much." I've seen it live twice, and one staging pulled it off, but the other one just didn't.

Also, Rent is kinda one of those generational things. People like me who were teenagers when it came out often can't help loving it a bit in spite of its flaws. :p

Fair enough, but I wasn't much older. 25 or so. It just never caught me as being much more than self-indulgent. The soundtrack without the film is especially off-putting to me.

Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street

I would say Blues Brothers but its not a damn musical.

You're telling me you didn't think Asoka was awesome?

I dunno, I probably shouldn't talk about them. I haven't watched very many, but those I have seen I never liked the song and dance. Asoka sounds worth looking into, I guess, so I'll get back to you on that.

It seems that I'm soulless, then. Rent is so mawkish that it's difficult to like. I can appreciate the enthusiasm and energy, but the overall effect is that the show tries way too hard and trips over itself trying to get you to empathize. "Oh look, it's a romantic number, but it's really about heroin." Yawn.

I didn't say "anyone who doesn't like the show". I said anyone who thinks those portions of the show are happy.

Silly.

I rather like musicals. "Once More, With Feeling" was easily one of my favorite episodes of Buffy

So true. It was one of the best TV episodes in any show of all time. I also adore Grease. Something about it just appeals to me.

One other musical I can't get enough of (and it is a secret shame of mine) is Mary Poppins. I just love that nanny.

I didn't say "anyone who doesn't like the show". I said anyone who thinks those portions of the show are happy.

Silly.

I'm happy 'cause it means we don't have to hear from at least one cast member anymore. :eek::D

I did miss your qualifier, though. Apologies.

Realism be damned! Music can take a scene and amplify whatever emotion you're feeling.

Take Dr. Horrible for instance:

Look at these people
Amazing how sheeple
Show up for the slaughter.

No one condemning you
Lined up like lemmings you
Led to the Water

That song never fails to be both awesome and chilling...

...Until Hammer ruins it, of course.

WAAAAAAAAAAY!

You want chilling?


Now the nightmare's real
Now Dr. Horrible is here
To make you quake with fear
To make the whole world kneel
And I won't feel
A thing.
:(

That I am the only one who mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof" is conclusive proof that I am the only one here with any taste.

That I am the only one who mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof" is conclusive proof that I am the only one here who loves, and possibly is, a Jew.

Fixed. :p

To life, to life, l'chaim!

I was the Voice of Audrey II. The director allowed me to go for an effete British accent for speaking, and as Levi Stubbs as my narrow white ass could get when singing. The effect on the audience was well worth the effort.

There's nothing like not having to do makeup or costume for a show and still have a major role. I have a face for voice-overs.

Hehe, yeah, Audrey II is a fabulous role. :)

I am the only one who mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof"

Lies! :tongue:

Incidentally, a list of SOME of the Broadway musicals Poli could actually do as one-woman shows because she knows them that well:

Sweeney Todd
Into the Woods
Evita
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Fiddler on the Roof
The Music Man
Man of La Mancha
Rent
Little Shop of Horrors
Les Miserables
Phantom of the Opera (absurdly high E and all!)
Pippin
Beauty and the Beast
West Side Story
Chicago
Ragtime

You all don't even WANT to see the list of ones I know well enough to sing most of the songs. :p

I actually really dont like Musicals...they are nine times outta ten, boring as hell...

But, I definitely Recommend Sweeny Todd, that movie ruled, lol...

There's just nothing more creepy than a guy singin while he slits your throat....

Almost as bad as that scene in Reservoir Dogs....

Lies! :tongue:

Incidentally, a list of SOME of the Broadway musicals Poli could actually do as one-woman shows because she knows them that well:

Sweeney Todd
Into the Woods
Evita
Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
Fiddler on the Roof
The Music Man
Man of La Mancha
Rent
Little Shop of Horrors
Les Miserables
Phantom of the Opera (absurdly high E and all!)
Pippin
Beauty and the Beast
West Side Story
Chicago
Ragtime

You all don't even WANT to see the list of ones I know well enough to sing most of the songs. :p

Then why don't you do a musical production or two? Do you have a community theater?

Me I've been in a few productions:
West Side Story as an extra vocalist
Hot L Baltimore, I was 16 and hence to young to actually be a part of the cast but I worked crew.
Wizard of Oz I was the Tin Man.
Working: Brother Trucker

But, I definitely Recommend Sweeny Todd, that movie ruled, lol...


The stage show is approximately 47 billion skillion times better. Promise.

(Or, heck, just the original cast soundtrack. Len Cariou + Angela Lansbury = perfection. They both won Tony awards for a reason.)

Then why don't you do a musical production or two? Do you have a community theater?

Me I've been in a few productions:
West Side Story as an extra vocalist
Hot L Baltimore, I was 16 and hence to young to actually be a part of the cast but I worked crew.
Wizard of Oz I was the Tin Man.
Working: Brother Trucker

Heh, I've done a great many; I was in more local theatre productions as a kid/teenager than I could even list. (To give you an idea, I have played three different Cratchett children in different productions of "A Christmas Carol." Four, if you count "Tiny Tina" in a parody version.) At the moment, the whole "looking for a job and trying to afford to move" thing kind of puts a cramp in spending that sort of time on things that don't pay me. :p

Heh, I've done a great many; I was in more local theatre productions as a kid/teenager than I could even list. (To give you an idea, I have played three different Cratchett children in different productions of "A Christmas Carol." Four, if you count "Tiny Tina" in a parody version.) At the moment, the whole "looking for a job and trying to afford to move" thing kind of puts a cramp in spending that sort of time on things that don't pay me. :p

I know the feeling :). You had just left me with the impression that though you love musical theater you never tried it yourself.

That I am the only one who mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof" is conclusive proof that I am the only one here with any taste.
Heh. I should have mentioned it in my first post, to be sure. I actually played the Constable in a severely substandard ensemble performance way back in junior high, which was particularly funny because I was the only Jew in the cast.

I know this has little to do with the OP but I always wanted to try my hand at doing a Shakespear character... not any of that hammy overexagerated and fluffily BS you see so many people use when acting it out, but acting like the way I'm speaking is totally normal, and keep a realistic tone of voice.

I know the feeling :). You had just left me with the impression that though you love musical theater you never tried it yourself.

Hahahaha oh very very very much no. I've done lots, though admittedly I've love to do more. (I still do daydream occasionally about ending up on Broadway, although I know quite well it'll never happen. I may have the pipes for it, but not the looks or the connections.)

That I am the only one who mentioned "Fiddler on the Roof" is conclusive proof that I am the only one here with any taste.

Ah ... no.

I repeat my earlier nomination, which blows "Fiddler on the Roof" out of the water completely - The Rocky Horror Picture Show. *Does the Time Warp.*

I may have the pipes for it, but not the looks or the connections.)

I'll beleive you don;t have the connections, but looks? Please!

I know this has little to do with the OP but I always wanted to try my hand at doing a Shakespear character... not any of that hammy overexagerated and fluffily BS you see so many people use when acting it out, but acting like the way I'm speaking is totally normal, and keep a realistic tone of voice.

You don't actually see much overacting in professional productions; I've always wondered why Shakespearean acting is always stereotyped that way on TV. Counting movies, I've seen something like 8 different productions of Hamlet now, and not a single Hamlet opened his famous soliloquy by going, "To beeeeeeeeeeeee.....or NOT to beeeee!" the way it's always always said when people quote it. I don't know why pop culture has decided it works that way, but it's probably the same reason it even more inexplicably decided that absolutely all opera is Wagner's Ring cycle and that, apparently, all musicals are The Sound of Music.

Anyway, I've done some Shakespeare, too, and loved it, but it always makes me want to tie back my hair and put on a codpiece so I could get one of the GOOD roles. :p

I'll beleive you don;t have the connections, but looks? Please!

Heh, I'm not saying I'm ugly, just that I don't look starlet-perfect enough to get my foot in the door without any help.

You don't actually see much overacting in professional productions; I've always wondered why Shakespearean acting is always stereotyped that way on TV. Counting movies, I've seen something like 8 different productions of Hamlet now, and not a single Hamlet opened his famous soliloquy by going, "To beeeeeeeeeeeee.....or NOT to beeeee!" the way it's always always said when people quote it. I don't know why pop culture has decided it works that way, but it's probably the same reason it even more inexplicably decided that absolutely all opera is Wagner's Ring cycle and that, apparently, all musicals are The Sound of Music.

Anyway, I've done some Shakespeare, too, and loved it, but it always makes me want to tie back my hair and put on a codpiece so I could get one of the GOOD roles. :p

I see it, but not to the extent that is shown on TV, its a more subtle overdramatization, or maybe I just think I can do better? I havn't gotten to do shakespeare in anything other than High School English :(.

If all musicals were The Sound of Music they would have been shunned long ago :p. Its my experience that the people who don't like a lot of musicals are the kind of people most people don't like associating with.

Heh, I'm not saying I'm ugly, just that I don't look starlet-perfect enough to get my foot in the door without any help.

Pfffttt... all those gorgeous starlets are ugly people with 8 tons of makeup on. (ok, some of them aren't).

I actually can't make an honest judgement call though since I have never seen you, or a picture of you, ever. I was just going by general consencess and trying to give you an ego boost.

Ah ... no.

I repeat my earlier nomination, which blows "Fiddler on the Roof" out of the water completely - The Rocky Horror Picture Show. *Does the Time Warp.*

The greatest thing about RHPS is going to the live shows and watching cute chicks run around in their underwear.

That's how I met two of my exes.

Still, the story isn't anywhere near as compelling as Fiddler on the Roof.

Fiddler is one of the finest musicals ever put to film - unfortunately, I have never seen it performed on the stage.

I HAVE seen The King and I, and while the man playing the King was not quite to Yul Brynner's standing as an artist, he was, at least, authentically asian.

I ADORE musicals. They require both fine acting and fine singing; and, often, fine dancing as well.

Which is why my personal favourite remains Singing in the Rain.

I loathe them. I hate the way they'll be just talking away normally, or doing something & all of a sudden they start singing about it. It's totally unnescessary and annoying.

mostly annoying and pointless, though there are some good ones... like Little Shop of Horrors, and Wizard of Oz was good too

Damn, I should have posted a poll. It seems as though NSG is pretty much divided down the middle. This is a rarity.

I did finish watching Sweeney Todd, and it was alright. I just like the fact that everyone dies; tis a pretty fitting ending. Still doesn't change my outlook on musicals though.

You don't actually see much overacting in professional productions; I've always wondered why Shakespearean acting is always stereotyped that way on TV. Counting movies, I've seen something like 8 different productions of Hamlet now, and not a single Hamlet opened his famous soliloquy by going, "To beeeeeeeeeeeee.....or NOT to beeeee!" the way it's always always said when people quote it. I don't know why pop culture has decided it works that way,
Because it is more fun to do it that way.
"Is this a DAGGER?! which I see before me? The handle toward my! ... hand???" And you've got to remember to say, "Come, let me clutch thee," in the absolute sleaziest way possible.
It also helps to stand with your feet as wide as possible and your chest jutting forward, as if there were a charging rhinoceros leashed to each of your nipples.
On the serious side of Shakespeare, Patrick Stewart was a great MacBeth. Nothing like discussing murder while devouring a sandwich.
Anyway, I've done some Shakespeare, too, and loved it, but it always makes me want to tie back my hair and put on a codpiece so I could get one of the GOOD roles. :p
I was never that impressed with Viola.

Hair
Jesus Christ Superstar
Fiddler
Don Giovonni
Madame Buttefly
Mikado
(Might as well toss some classics in the pot too. :wink:)

Like 'em less on screen.

Grease
Heavy Metal
The Wall
Tommy

Anyone else done stage acting?

A bit, although I've more experience with impro. (Impro musicals are either brilliant or AWFUL!)

I think the reason that people are calling musicals unrealistic, but still enjoying sci-fi, is that musicals are more of an "emotional unrealism." Spontaneously bursting into song and expecting random people to join in is sort of narcissistic and unbelievable, from the point of view of what people are like. It implies a fabricated element to the players' personality.

*facepalm*

Psst! There are no "spider-men" in RL, either. Also, just about every romantic comedy is beyond unrealistic, if that's your definition. So tell me, what's the point of escapism if you refuse to escape?

To me its about suspension of belief. I can say to myself, well lets just pretend that a radioactive spider bite can give you powers and go from there. Its much much more difficult to say to yourself lets pretend that everybody breaks out into a retarded song every 5 min is perfectly ok.


Musicals make me have my period, and im a guy.

*Except for Rocky Horror and no one ever accused that movie of actually being good anyway.

Because it is more fun to do it that way.
"Is this a DAGGER?! which I see before me? The handle toward my! ... hand???" And you've got to remember to say, "Come, let me clutch thee," in the absolute sleaziest way possible.
It also helps to stand with your feet as wide as possible and your chest jutting forward, as if there were a charging rhinoceros leashed to each of your nipples.

Hehe.

I was never that impressed with Viola.

Heh, not quite what I meant. (And yeah, Viola is "meh" at best. If we're going for crossdressing ladies, I'd rather have Rosalind.)

I think the reason that people are calling musicals unrealistic, but still enjoying sci-fi, is that musicals are more of an "emotional unrealism." Spontaneously bursting into song and expecting random people to join in is sort of narcissistic and unbelievable, from the point of view of what people are like. It implies a fabricated element to the players' personality.

And singing a song about the Troubles in Ireland made them less realistic?

Confusing the message with the medium is nonsensical

I think the reason that people are calling musicals unrealistic, but still enjoying sci-fi, is that musicals are more of an "emotional unrealism." Spontaneously bursting into song and expecting random people to join in is sort of narcissistic and unbelievable, from the point of view of what people are like. It implies a fabricated element to the players' personality.

A few points:

1. I have, on a great many occasions, spontaneously burst into song and expected people to join in. Oftentimes they do so. For that matter, I have, on many many many occasions, spontaneously burst into song expressing my emotions and not really cared if anyone was listening or joining in. Apparently, I am not a person?

2. I have seen 0 non-self-parodying musicals in which a character appears to "expect random people to join in."

3. Very few people speak in blank verse in real life. Therefore, Shakespeare sucks and is "unrealistic." Right?

I gotta go with the can't stand it crowd. You can't sling a rock here without hitting a Broadway, or Off Broadway or Off-Off Broadway theater. Yuck.

Even worse if it a movie. It something to do with the kind of singing I think. Alright everyone think Oklahoma. Yuck. Gives me shivers. Yuck.

How about West Side Story. Cool guys in leather jackets that dance and fight and dance.

With my friends I say I am going to a play.


They all go oh man I am sorry what did you do?

I say nothing the wife wants to go.

They say are you going to bring ear plugs.

Maybe.

Plays on the other hand some can be quite good, just don't sing. Anything to do with Disney is better in cartoon form.

Cats ehhh, what can I say. Stage stuff was kind of cool


Phantom of the Opera. Good story bad really crappy by singing.

A few points:

1. I have, on a great many occasions, spontaneously burst into song and expected people to join in. Oftentimes they do so. For that matter, I have, on many many many occasions, spontaneously burst into song expressing my emotions and not really cared if anyone was listening or joining in. Apparently, I am not a person?

Are you female or a gay male? If so there is your explanation. If not, i recommend therapy :P

2. I have seen 0 non-self-parodying musicals in which a character appears to "expect random people to join in."

How about the Sound of Music? Noone shuts up in that musical the whole time.

3. Very few people speak in blank verse in real life. Therefore, Shakespeare sucks and is "unrealistic." Right?

Lets face it, Shakespeare movies arnt breaking box office records anywhere that im aware of.

Lets face it, Shakespeare movies arnt breaking box office records anywhere that im aware of.

All the more evidence of The Bard's worth. ;)

Are you female or a gay male? If so there is your explanation. If not, i recommend therapy :P

I happen to be female. Many of the people who sing with me are straight males. Presumably said males have big enough penises that they don't worry about them magically falling off if they do things that don't receive the Internet Macho Man Seal of Approval.


How about the Sound of Music? Noone shuts up in that musical the whole time.

First, that's not true. Unlike many musicals, it has a lot of plain dialogue. Second, that doesn't address my point that at no point does a character "expect random people" to join in. Unless you're thinking it's terribly unrealistic for adults to teach children a song and then sing it with the children? Third, but not least, I really love how you used as an example the specific musical I used earlier as an example of what foolish and ignorant people seem to think all musicals are like.


Lets face it, Shakespeare movies arnt breaking box office records anywhere that im aware of.

Yes, and "Beverley Hills Chihuahua" did quite well at the box office. Clearly, the box office is a fabulous judge of realism and quality.

Yes, and "Beverley Hills Chihuahua" did quite well at the box office. Clearly, the box office is a fabulous judge of realism and quality.
In other words:
All the more evidence of The Bard's worth. ;)

:tongue:

A few points:

1. I have, on a great many occasions, spontaneously burst into song and expected people to join in. Oftentimes they do so. For that matter, I have, on many many many occasions, spontaneously burst into song expressing my emotions and not really cared if anyone was listening or joining in. Apparently, I am not a person?
??????
I have never met anyone who did this. Unless you count singing along with the radio or something, but that is very odd.
Yes, and "Beverley Hills Chihuahua" did quite well at the box office. Clearly, the box office is a fabulous judge of realism and quality.
That is a great American classic. It had dogs that talked, what more can you demand from a film?

??????
I have never met anyone who did this. Unless you count singing along with the radio or something, but that is very odd.


My little brother does that sometimes too.

My little brother does that sometimes too.

I've done it before, too. Maybe there's something about a dreary data-processing pool (I was a datamonkey at the time) that lends itself well to escapism, but one more than one occassion I led a spontaneous office rendition of the "Prince Ali" song from Aladdin, or something like it.

??????
I have never met anyone who did this. Unless you count singing along with the radio or something, but that is very odd.

I don't think I've ever denied being somewhat odd. Just the same, I'm pretty sure I'm a person.

(I also suspect you haven't hung out much with choral singers. I have found it is very hard to go anywhere with choral singers and NOT end up performing something in harmony.)

Oh yeah, what's your favorite or least favorite musical?

Favorite?

Phantom of the Opera
Cats
Les Meserable
Into the Woods
Grease
Grease II
Rocky Horror Picture Show
all the Disney ones.
Tommy

least favorite?

those I haven't seen yet.

I also suspect you haven't hung out much with choral singers. I have found it is very hard to go anywhere with choral singers and NOT end up performing something in harmony.
A good friend of mine is a musical theater performer, and also frequently breaks out into song. I haven't hung out with her when she's with all her theater friends, but I imagine it's probably very similar.

Hell, it doesn't have to be theater people-- often, if it's just somebody you've seen the movie/performance with, it'll work. I saw Repo! with one of my coworkers, and I can just walk into the office and begin with "Remember who you are!" or "Zydrate comes in a little glass vial!" and we'll go from there.

How could I forget

AVENUE Q!

How could I forget

AVENUE Q!
Everyone's a little bit racist today
So everyone's a little bit racist, okay
Ethinic jokes might be uncouth
But you laugh because they're based on truth
Don't take them as personal attacks
Everyone enjoys them - so relax!

:D

To me its about suspension of belief. I can say to myself, well lets just pretend that a radioactive spider bite can give you powers and go from there. Its much much more difficult to say to yourself lets pretend that everybody breaks out into a retarded song every 5 min is perfectly ok.

Fine.

Musical theater hails from a combination of ancestors, including vaudeville and opera, both of which were around before most science, let alone science fiction. Opera dates from oratorio (think Handel's Messiah) and is effectively a musical with dialogue/narration (recitatives) and expressions of emotion (arias). Seeing as how only theater as a pure entertainment medium has been around longer, I'll consider your opinion as peculiar to you, and discard it into the rubbish bin.

Musicals make me have my period, and im a guy.

Might wanna have that looked at. You could be some kind of crypto-hermaphrodite.

*Except for Rocky Horror and no one ever accused that movie of actually being good anyway.

Ah, so breaking into song is okay if it's about transvestites, yet you have the temerity to type this:

Are you female or a gay male? If so there is your explanation. If not, i recommend therapy :P

Psychiatrist, heal thyself.

How about the Sound of Music? Noone shuts up in that musical the whole time.

Gee, I wonder why.

Lets face it, Shakespeare movies arnt breaking box office records anywhere that im aware of.

Well, if "breaking box office records" is your standard for "film worth watching", you're beyond hope. None of the following broke any records, but all did very well at the box office and overall:

10 Things I Hate About You (The Taming of the Shrew - 1999)
Hamlet (1990, Zeferelli)
William Shakespeare's Romeo + Juliet (1996)
My Own Private Idaho (Henry IV - 1992)
Much Ado About Nothing (Brannagh - 1993)
Forbidden Planet (The Tempest - 1956)
The Lion King (Hamlet & Richard III - 1994)
West Side Story (Romeo and Juliet; Bernstein, Sondheim; *gasp* a musical - 1961)
Hamlet (Brannagh - 1996)
Ran (King Lear; Kurosawa - 1985)
Henry V (Brannagh - 1989)

In short, your opinion has the weight of the electricity it took to both think it up and send it across wires.

Fine.

Musical theater hails from a combination of ancestors, including vaudeville and opera, both of which were around before most science, let alone science fiction. Opera dates from oratorio (think Handel's Messiah) and is effectively a musical with dialogue/narration (recitatives) and expressions of emotion (arias). Seeing as how only theater as a pure entertainment medium has been around longer, I'll consider your opinion as peculiar to you, and discard it into the rubbish bin.

The fact that somethings been around for a long time doesnt autpomatically qualify it as superior. Sailing vessels have been in existence for many thousands of years, and still exist to some extent today. Yet does anyone claim that sailing is the best form of transportation and the proof is that its been here for 4000 years? Sure there are still sailboats today but its been turned into a quaint relic from a bygone era for hobbyists. Same with Opera. What % of a persons income is spent on Operas and Musicals, then compare that to say video games, TV, internet, radio, Ipods and Hollywood. Ill bet more consumer money is spent on 50 year old board games then is on musicals.

The fact is that 200 years ago there wasnt much to do, you could read the one book your family owned by candle, or go shit in a hole or go to a play. Musicals and Opera have been relegated to the on sale bin in the back. They simply arnt an important part of society like they used to be. We actually have better choices now. The money we spend on other entertainment choices prove it.

Why do you think we dont have Operas and Musicals on prime time network TV all the time? Do you possibly think its because noone would watch them? Nah couldnt be that obvious. It must be an evil plot by uncultured TV executives instead.


Ah, so breaking into song is okay if it's about transvestites, yet you have the temerity to type this:

RHPS is good because its bad, thats kinda the whole point. Nobody throws toast and toilet paper around the theater when The Godfather is playing. So if your suggesting all musicals are good in the same way RHPS is i might be slightly more inclined to agree with you. Swooosh.

The fact that somethings been around for a long time doesnt autpomatically qualify it as superior. Sailing vessels have been in existence for many thousands of years, and still exist to some extent today. Yet does anyone claim that sailing is the best form of transportation and the proof is that its been here for 4000 years? Sure there are still sailboats today but its been turned into a quaint relic from a bygone era for hobbyists. Same with Opera. What % of a persons income is spent on Operas and Musicals, then compare that to say video games, TV, internet, radio, Ipods and Hollywood. Ill bet more consumer money is spent on 50 year old board games then is on musicals.

The fact is that 200 years ago there wasnt much to do, you could read the one book your family owned by candle, or go shit in a hole or go to a play. Musicals and Opera have been relegated to the on sale bin in the back. They simply arnt an important part of society like they used to be. We actually have better choices now. The money we spend on other entertainment choices prove it.

Why do you think we dont have Operas and Musicals on prime time network TV all the time? Do you possibly think its because noone would watch them? Nah couldnt be that obvious. It must be an evil plot by uncultured TV executives instead.


So, just to be clear, your argument is "Just because it's been around in some form for pretty much the entire history of humanity it's not good - instead, just because it's common and/or expensive it's good!" Seriously?

Here's a really crazy idea - there's not a lot of musicals, operas, or plays on TV because (and this is really crazy and out there, I know) they're not designed for television. Strangely enough, you also very rarely see Lost or Desperate Housewives performed in live theatres! Go figure! :rolleyes:

So, just to be clear, your argument is "Just because it's been around in some form for pretty much the entire history of humanity it's not good - instead, just because it's common and/or expensive it's good!" Seriously?

My argument is its a form of entertainment that is past its time and no longer enjoyed by a majority of people. And what people choose to spend their entertainment money on proves it, with cold hard facts.

Here's a really crazy idea - there's not a lot of musicals, operas, or plays on TV because (and this is really crazy and out there, I know) they're not designed for television. Strangely enough, you also very rarely see Lost or Desperate Housewives performed in live theatres! Go figure! :rolleyes:

Give me one reason besides noone would watch it, that a play, musical or opera couldnt be televised? Im pretty sure i saw The Sound of Music and Oklahoma both on a VCR tape in music class in school. How did that ever get on there?

Why would you want to take LOST, a wildly successful show thats played on a medium people actually care about and watch and put it in a medium that most people have no interest in?

My argument is its a form of entertainment that is past its time and no longer enjoyed by a majority of people. And what people choose to spend their entertainment money on proves it, with cold hard facts.

Except, you know, it still totally doesn't, because live theatre, television, video games, etc. have vastly different business models.

I'd also like to see an actual poll that says that "the majority of people" dislike live theatre. Because, see, every time I've visited New York, the thing every single person I've traveled with really wants to do is go see a Broadway show. It's almost as if Broadway has a reputation for being a thing people enjoy or something!

Give me one reason besides noone would watch it, that a play, musical or opera couldnt be televised? Im pretty sure i saw The Sound of Music and Oklahoma both on a VCR tape in music class in school. How did that ever get on there?

Presumably because they were ADAPTED into movies? Or did you think the actual stage production of The Sound of Music involved a chunk of Austrian hillside for Julie Andrews to spin around on?

And if you want to argue that adaptations of musicals into movies are unsuccessful nowadays, well, I'm sure the producers of "Chicago" will enjoy laughing at you.

My argument is its a form of entertainment that is past its time and no longer enjoyed by a majority of people. And what people choose to spend their entertainment money on proves it, with cold hard facts.

So the fuck what? So what if it's a somewhat niche market? Why does this concern you? Why does this bother you?



Give me one reason besides noone would watch it, that a play, musical or opera couldnt be televised?

BBC and PBS broadcast plays, musicals, and operas all the time. More to point, Operas are designed, phoenetically, to be heard in acoustically designed halls for that purpose. It doesn't sound as good coming from the speakers in your tv.

Why would you want to take LOST, a wildly successful show thats played on a medium people actually care about and watch and put it in a medium that most people have no interest in?

Because it can make money? The existence of Broadway proves that it's still a viable economic model.

And if you want to argue that adaptations of musicals into movies are unsuccessful nowadays, well, I'm sure the producers of "Chicago" will enjoy laughing at you.

Moulin Rouge?

Moulin Rouge?

Yeah, people HATED that. Total flop, that movie. Don't you remember the crowds outside the movie theaters shrieking, "This is so unrealistic! People don't SING in real life!" ;)

No! You're wrong! The masses don't like musicals. I declare this by fiat. Further, popularity is the end-all be-all sign of quality. This proves, for example, that reality TV is quality entertainment.

No! You're wrong! The masses don't like musicals. I declare this by fiat. Further, popularity is the end-all be-all sign of quality. This proves, for example, that reality TV is quality entertainment.

I cannot argue with this impeccable logic. ;)

Wow two plays converted into movies in the past 20 years that made a profit out of the tens of thousands of plays in existence. Color me not impressed. Hollywood movies accomplish that in a weekend.

Yeah, people HATED that. Total flop, that movie. Don't you remember the crowds outside the movie theaters shrieking, "This is so unrealistic! People don't SING in real life!" ;)

Don't you know? We live in Pylea! Music does not exist.

But seriously. It's unrealistic, and so it's bad. That's why movies don't have any background music, because real life does not have a soundtrack. And that's why most movie characters are average-looking people, just like in real life. And most of the time is just mind-numbing tedium, waiting for the plot to advance-- after all, in real life, important things aren't always happening to you-- sometimes you're just chilling out and relaxing.

Oh, wait...

Wow two plays converted into movies in the past 20 years that made a profit out of the tens of thousands of plays in existence. Color me not impressed. Hollywood movies accomplish that in a weekend.

I seem to remember you, in another thread, going on about how great Macs are in comparison to Windows PCs.

But, if the only criterion for quality is popularity, then Macs must totally suck, right? After all, the vast majority of people have Windows!

Intestinal Fluids exhibits a trait that, unfortunately, is all too common among those whose interests are generally narrowly focused in natural sciences and technical fields.

Namely, he has no appreciation of the "human element."

A good liberal arts education would fix this.

This is why a liberal arts education is inherently superior.

Intestinal Fluids exhibits a trait that, unfortunately, is all too common among those whose interests are generally narrowly focused in natural sciences and technical fields.

Namely, he has no appreciation of the "human element."

A good liberal arts education would fix this.

This is why a liberal arts education is inherently superior.

Sorry to pop your balloon, i have a BA in Political Science.

Don't you know? We live in Pylea! Music does not exist.

But seriously. It's unrealistic, and so it's bad. That's why movies don't have any background music, because real life does not have a soundtrack. And that's why most movie characters are average-looking people, just like in real life. And most of the time is just mind-numbing tedium, waiting for the plot to advance-- after all, in real life, important things aren't always happening to you-- sometimes you're just chilling out and relaxing.

Oh, wait...

Exactly! This reminds me of my favorite episode of "Boston Legal," entitled "Denny Crane Sits At His Desk And Works On a Legal Brief for Several Hours." And, of course, there's the classic "Grey's Anatomy" episode "Meredith Is On Call But No New Patients Come In So She Just Sits In The On-Call Room And Plays Solitaire On Her Cell Phone All Night." Realism is the best ever!

Wow two plays converted into movies in the past 20 years that made a profit out of the tens of thousands of plays in existence. Color me not impressed. Hollywood movies accomplish that in a weekend.

his is a list of feature films based on stage plays or musicals.

[edit] #

* 1776 (1972) (musical)
* 24th Day, The
* 8 Women (2002)

[edit] A

* After the Fox (1966)
* Agnes of God (1985)
* Alfie (1966) (comedy)
* Alfie (2004) (comedy)
* American Buffalo (1996)
* Angels in America (2003) (TV) (drama)
* Annie (1982) (musical)
* Annie: A Royal Adventure! (1995) (TV) (musical)
* Annie (1999) (TV) (musical)
* Annie Get Your Gun (1950)
* Annie Get Your Gun (1956) (TV) (musical)
* Annie Get Your Gun (1967) (TV) (musical)
* Arsenic and Old Lace (1944)

[edit] B

* Barefoot in the Park (1967)
* The Big Kahuna (1999)
* Biloxi Blues (1988) (comedy)
* The Boys in the Band (1970)
* Brigadoon (1954) (musical)
* Brigadoon (1966) (TV)
* Brighton Beach Memoirs (1986)
* Broadway Bound (1992) (TV)
* Bug (2007) (horror)
* Bye Bye Birdie (1963)
* Bye Bye Birdie (1995) (TV)

[edit] C

* Cabin in the Sky (1943)
* Cabaret (1972)
* Cactus Flower
* Camelot
* Carousel (1956)
* Carousel (1967) (TV)
* Carousel (2008)
* Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (1958)
* Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (1976) (TV)
* Cat on a Hot Tin Roof (1985) (TV)
* Chapter Two (1979)
* Chicago (1927)
* Chicago (2002) (musical)
* The Children's Hour (1961)
* A Chorus Line (1985)
* A Clockwork Orange(1971)
* Closer (2004)
* Come Back to the Five and Dime, Jimmy Dean, Jimmy Dean (1982)
* Come Blow Your Horn (1963)
* The Country Girl (1954)
* The Crucible (1996)

[edit] D

* Damn Yankees (1958)
* Dancer in the Dark (2000)
* Death and the Maiden
* Deathtrap (1982)
* Dial M for Murder (1954)
* Don't Drink the Water (1969)
* Don't Drink the Water (1994) (TV)
* Dreamgirls (2006) (musical)

[edit] E

* Evita (1996) (musical)

[edit] F

* The Fantasticks (2000)
* A Few Good Men (1992)
* Fiddler on the Roof (1971) (musical)
* Finian's Rainbow (1968)
* Flower Drum Song (1961) (musical)

[edit] G

* Gaslight (1940)
* Gaslight (1944)
* Gigi (1958)
* The Gin Game
* Glengarry Glen Ross
* Godspell (1973)
* The Goodbye Girl (1977)
* Grease (1978) (musical)
* Guys and Dolls (1955) (musical)
* Gypsy (1962)
* Gypsy (1993) (TV)

[edit] H

* Hair (1955) (musical)
* Hairspray (2007) (musical)
* Harvey (1950)
* Hedwig and the Angry Inch (2001) (musical)
* Hello, Dolly! (1969) (musical)
* His Girl Friday (1940)
* The Homecoming (1973)
* The House of Yes (1997)
* How to Marry a Millionaire (1953)
* Hurlyburly (1998)

Gazon

[edit] I

* An Ideal Husband (1999)
* The Importance of Being Earnest
* Indiscreet (1958)
* I Ought to Be in Pictures (1982)

[edit] J

* Jake's Women (1996) (TV)
* The Jazz Singer (1927)
* Jesus Christ Superstar
* Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat

[edit] K

* The King and I (1956) (musical)
* The King and I (1999) (musical)
* Kiss Me, Kate (1953)

[edit] L

* The Laramie Project (2002)
* Last of the Red Hot Lovers (1972)
* Laughter on the 23rd Floor (2001) (TV)
* The Little Foxes (1941)
* Little Shop of Horrors (1986) (musical)
* London Suite (1996) (TV)
* Long Day's Journey Into Night (1962)
* Lost in Yonkers (1993)
* Love! Valour! Compassion! (1997)

[edit] M

* Mame (1974)
* Mamma Mia! (2008) (musical)
* Man of La Mancha (1972)
* The Music Man (1962)
* The Music Man (2003) (TV) (musical)
* My Fair Lady (1964) (musical)

[edit] N

* Nell (1994)
* Noises Off... (1992)
* New Faces (1954)

[edit] O

* The Odd Couple (1968)
* Oklahoma! (1955) (musical)
* Oliver! (1968) (musical)
* On Golden Pond (1981)
* On the Town (1949)
* Once Upon a Mattress (1964) (TV)
* Once Upon a Mattress (1972) (TV)
* Once Upon a Mattress (2005) (TV)
* Only When I Laugh (1981)
* Our Town (1940)

[edit] P

* Paint Your Wagon (1969) (musical)
* Pal Joey (1957)
* The Pirate Movie (1982) (musical)
* The Pirates of Penzance (1983)
* Play It Again, Sam (1972)
* Plaza Suite (1971)
* Pokrovsky Gates (1982)
* Prelude to a Kiss (1992)
* The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie
* The Phantom of the Opera (1962)
* The Phantom of the Opera (2004) (musical)
* The Prisoner of Second Avenue (1975)
* The Producers (2005) (musical)
* Proof (2005)

[edit] R

* Red Roses and Petrol (2008)
* Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical (2005) (musical)
* The Rocky Horror Picture Show (1975) (musical)
* Rope (1948)
* Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead (1990)
* Roxie Hart (1942)
* Relative Values (2000)
* Rent (2005) (musical)
* Revizor (1934)

[edit] S

* Seventh Heaven (1927, 1937)
* The Shape of Things (2003)
* Show Boat (1936)
* Show Boat (1951)
* Shirley Valentine (1990)
* Six Degrees of Separation
* Sleuth (1972)
* Sleuth (2007)
* Sonny Boys (1995) (TV)
* The Sound of Music (1965) (musical)
* South Pacific (1958) (musical)
* Stalag 17 (1953)
* Star Spangled Girl (1971)
* Steel Magnolias (1987)
* Streamers (1983)
* A Streetcar Named Desire (1951)
* Strictly Ballroom (1993)
* SubUrbia (1996)
* Suddenly, Last Summer (1959)
* The Sunshine Boys (1975)
* The Sunshine Boys (1995) (TV)
* Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (2007) (musical)

[edit] T

* Tape (2001)
* These Three (1936)
* They Might Be Giants (1971)

[edit] U

* Uncommon Women and Others (1978) (TV)
* The Unknown Purple (1923)
* Up the Junction (1963)
* Urbania (2000)

[edit] V

* Va savoir (2001)
* The Valiant (1929)
* Vanya on 42nd Street (1994)
* Victor/Victoria (1995) (musical)
* Visas and Virtue (Academy Award winning short)
* The Visit (1964)
* Voice of the City (1929)

[edit] W

* Wait Until Dark (1967)
* Water Drops on Burning Rocks (2000)
* Waterloo Bridge (1931)
* Waterloo Bridge (1940)
* The Way to the Stars (1945)
* We're Not Dressing (1934)
* West Side Story (1961) (musical)
* Who Was That Lady? (1960)
* Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966)
* The Winslow Boy (1948)
* The Winslow Boy (1999)
* Without You I'm Nothing (1990)
* The Wiz (1978) (musical)
* A Woman of No Importance (Upcoming)
* The Woodsman (2004)

[edit] Y

* You Can't Take It with You (1938)

[edit] Z

* Zoot Suit (1981)

Exactly! This reminds me of my favorite episode of "Boston Legal," entitled "Denny Crane Sits At His Desk And Works On a Legal Brief for Several Hours." And, of course, there's the classic "Grey's Anatomy" episode "Meredith Is On Call But No New Patients Come In So She Just Sits In The On-Call Room And Plays Solitaire On Her Cell Phone All Night." Realism is the best ever!

Wow were those shows that you just mentioned, the ones we all relate to and understand your references to, some kind of Musical or Opera? Oh wait...

his is a list of feature films based on stage plays or musicals.
<snip>



LOL thank you for proving my point nicely. Probably 80% of that list was longer then 20 years ago, in many cases FAR longer. And id be willing to bet you most people havnt even heard of a vast majority of that list.

his is a list of feature films based on stage plays or musicals.
<snip>


Exactly. Two. No more than two.


What, you're not a gully dwarf now?


Wow were those shows that you just mentioned, the ones we all relate to and understand your references to, some kind of Musical or Opera? Oh wait...

Um.

...

Way to completely miss the point.

Wow were those shows that you just mentioned, the ones we all relate to and understand your references to, some kind of Musical or Opera? Oh wait...

I'm sorry, were you under the impression that liking live theatre and liking television were somehow mutually exclusive positions, or was this comment just completely and utterly pointless?

I'm sorry, were you under the impression that liking live theatre and liking television were somehow mutually exclusive positions, or was this comment just completely and utterly pointless?

I think he was under the impression that you were under the impression that those were musicals.

I'm not quite sure, though...

LOL thank you for proving my point nicely. Probably 80% of that list was longer then 20 years ago, in many cases FAR longer. And id be willing to bet you most people havnt even heard of a vast majority of that list.

I'm also willing to bet that a fair degree of cinema was created more than 20 years ago.

What's your point?

I'm also willing to bet that a fair degree of cinema was created more than 20 years ago.

What's your point?

My point is that Operas and Musicals are a form of medium that are losing popularity because frankly it isnt that good particularly when there are now better things to choose to do with your time, unlike your musicals and your audience from 1946.

Just for you, I did a count. 198 movies on the list, here's what remains when you expunge everything before 1989:

* 24th Day, The
* 8 Women (2002)
* Alfie (2004) (comedy)
* American Buffalo (1996)
* Angels in America (2003) (TV) (drama)
* Annie: A Royal Adventure! (1995) (TV) (musical)
* Annie (1999) (TV) (musical)
* The Big Kahuna (1999)
* Biloxi Blues (1988) (comedy)
* Broadway Bound (1992) (TV)
* Bug (2007) (horror)
* Bye Bye Birdie (1995) (TV)
* Cactus Flower
* Camelot
* Carousel (2008)
* Chicago (2002) (musical)
* Closer (2004)
* The Crucible (1996)
* Dancer in the Dark (2000)
* Don't Drink the Water (1994) (TV)
* Dreamgirls (2006) (musical)
* Evita (1996) (musical)
* The Fantasticks (2000)
* A Few Good Men (1992)
* The Gin Game
* Gypsy (1993) (TV)
* Hairspray (2007) (musical)
* Hedwig and the Angry Inch (2001) (musical)
* The House of Yes (1997)
* How to Marry a Millionaire (1953)
* Hurlyburly (1998)
* An Ideal Husband (1999)
* The Importance of Being Earnest
* Indiscreet (1958)
* I Ought to Be in Pictures (1982)
* Jake's Women (1996) (TV)
* The Jazz Singer (1927)
* Jesus Christ Superstar
* Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat
* The King and I (1956) (musical)
* The King and I (1999) (musical)
* Kiss Me, Kate (1953)
* The Laramie Project (2002)
* Laughter on the 23rd Floor (2001) (TV)
* London Suite (1996) (TV)
* Lost in Yonkers (1993)
* Love! Valour! Compassion! (1997)
* Mamma Mia! (2008) (musical)
* Nell (1994)
* Noises Off... (1992)
* Once Upon a Mattress (2005) (TV)
* Prelude to a Kiss (1992)
* The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie
* The Phantom of the Opera (2004) (musical)
* The Producers (2005) (musical)
* Proof (2005)
* Red Roses and Petrol (2008)
* Reefer Madness: The Movie Musical (2005) (musical)
* Rosencrantz & Guildenstern Are Dead (1990)
* Relative Values (2000)
* Rent (2005) (musical)
* The Shape of Things (2003)
* Shirley Valentine (1990)
* Six Degrees of Separation
* Sleuth (2007)
* Steel Magnolias (1987)
* Strictly Ballroom (1993)
* SubUrbia (1996)
* The Sunshine Boys (1995) (TV)
* Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street (2007) (musical)
* Tape (2001)
* Urbania (2000)
* Va savoir (2001)
* Vanya on 42nd Street (1994)
* Victor/Victoria (1995) (musical)
* Visas and Virtue (Academy Award winning short)
* Water Drops on Burning Rocks (2000)
* The Winslow Boy (1999)
* Without You I'm Nothing (1990)
* A Woman of No Importance (Upcoming)
* The Woodsman (2004)


That's 80 movies. 40%. And this is expunging some majorly known ones, because they didn't meet your arbitrary cut of point like Rockey Horror Picture Show, Little Shop of Horrors, West Side Story, Streetcar Named Desire, and fucking Grease.

My point is that Operas and Musicals are a form of medium that are losing popularity because frankly it isnt that good particularly when there are now better things to choose to do with your time, unlike your musicals and your audience from 1946.

As listed, 40% of the movies made from musicals have been made in the last 20 years. Do you think more than 20% of american cinema has been produced in the last 20 years?

My point is that Operas and Musicals are a form of medium that are losing popularity because frankly it isnt that good particularly when there are now better things to choose to do with your time, unlike your musicals and your audience from 1946.

So, you also think that Windows is the greatest operating system ever, right?

As listed, 40% of the movies made from musicals have been made in the last 20 years. Do you think more than 20% of american cinema has been produced in the last 20 years?

Id hazard a guess that FAR more movies are made today then 30 or 40 years ago. 40 years ago we didnt have gigaplexes with 30 different movies running at any given time. You had a theater with one two or three screens if you were lucky.

Id hazard a guess that FAR more movies are made today then 30 or 40 years ago. 40 years ago we didnt have gigaplexes with 30 different movies running at any given time. You had a theater with one two or three screens if you were lucky.

and you would base this on...what numbers, exactly? True, sure, there are more "mega theaters" now. But at the same time, for a good...half of cinema's history, it had no competition with television.

So, you also think that Windows is the greatest operating system ever, right?

I think your in the wrong thread.

I think your in the wrong thread.

No, it's entirely relevant, and here's why:

If you believe popularity is how one determines quality, then you must believe that Windows is the best OS. But I have seen you, in another thread, say that this is not the case. And so, I can demonstrate that you don't really believe that popularity is a good measure of quality, and your argument is bunk.

No, it's entirely relevant, and here's why:

If you believe popularity is how one determines quality, then you must believe that Windows is the best OS. But I have seen you, in another thread, say that this is not the case. And so, I can demonstrate that you don't really believe that popularity is a good measure of quality, and your argument is bunk.

Yup, definitely wrong thread.

Yup, defiantly wrong thread.

Exactly. Stop defying the thread.

Yup, defiantly wrong thread.

*sigh*

You don't get it, do you?

If the argument "it's popular, so it's good" applies to film, then why should it not apply to software? Beliefs and opinions do not exist in isolation. I'm merely demonstrating that you do not, in fact, think that the argument you are using is valid.

No, it's entirely relevant, and here's why:

If you believe popularity is how one determines quality, then you must believe that Windows is the best OS. But I have seen you, in another thread, say that this is not the case. And so, I can demonstrate that you don't really believe that popularity is a good measure of quality, and your argument is bunk.

What you're saying only makes sense if you have an expectation of consistency and coherency of definitions and standards of reasoning from somebody.

By denying people the right to utterly contradict their own voiced principles, you're defying the thread, apparently.

My point is that Operas and Musicals are a form of medium that are losing popularity because frankly it isnt that good particularly when there are now better things to choose to do with your time, unlike your musicals and your audience from 1946.

See, you keep making these assertions, but you don't back them up at all.

To the best of my knowledge, the popularity of opera has not changed much in the last, oh, century or so. If it had suddenly dropped off in the last 20 years, something tells me that I, as a classical singer, might have heard someone besides you suggest such a thing.

As for musicals, again, if no one likes them anymore, exactly why is Broadway still one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world? And exactly why did one of the "stagiest" movie adaptations of a musical ever made win the Oscar for Best Picture and rake in a LOT of money all of, what, five years ago? It's almost as if people LIKED it or something!

I would really like to know what live theatre you have seen, since you are apparently familiar enough with all forms of live theatre to assert that it is universally "not that good."

I also love the idea of "better things to do with your time," given that your previous examples thereof were "watch TV" and "play video games." Now, don't get me wrong, I like TV and video games as much as the next girl, but the idea that these are brilliantly worthwhile pursuits which are vastly superior to going to the theatre is just hilarious.

And last but not least, again, since when does popularity actually correlate to quality? There have probably been more copies of The Da Vinci Code sold in the last few years than copies of Moby-Dick; are you honestly going to argue that this means The Da Vinci Code is a better novel?

I love musicals. My favorite is Sweeney Todd -- but not Burton's mangled film adaptation. I'm a huge fan of Sondheim's original.

See, you keep making these assertions, but you don't back them up at all.

To the best of my knowledge, the popularity of opera has not changed much in the last, oh, century or so. If it had suddenly dropped off in the last 20 years, something tells me that I, as a classical singer, might have heard someone besides you suggest such a thing.

You act as if being in a field makes one more qualified to know things about it. Clearly, you don't understand the infinite wisdom of IF.


<snip>

And last but not least, again, since when does popularity actually correlate to quality? There have probably been more copies of The Da Vinci Code sold in the last few years than copies of Moby-Dick; are you honestly going to argue that this means The Da Vinci Code is a better novel?

Now you get it. And if a Moby-Dick movie is released and suddenly the book sells a lot more copies, it will retroactively increase the literary merit of the book. Obviously.

*sigh*

You don't get it, do you?

If the argument "it's popular, so it's good" applies to film, then why should it not apply to software? Beliefs and opinions do not exist in isolation. I'm merely demonstrating that you do not, in fact, think that the argument you are using is valid.

This is ridiculous and i dont want to get into it but the reason more people use Windows compared to Mac is myriad, including peoples inherent unwillingness to learn new relatively complicated systems, the high cost of switching over, the fact that PCs focused on business whereas Mac originally focused on a graphics machine for a smaller artsy market and PC therefore got a larger market share faster and i could go on and on and on for pages. However i think society has plays and operas pretty much figured out already and for the most part the market has spoken.

This is ridiculous and i dont want to get into it but the reason more people use Windows compared to Mac is myriad, including peoples inherent unwillingness to learn new relatively complicated systems, the high cost of switching over, the fact that PCs focused on business whereas Mac originally focused on a graphics machine for a smaller artsy market and PC therefore got a larger market share faster and i could go on and on and on for pages. However i think society has plays and operas pretty much figured out already and for the most part the market has spoken.

As opposed to all the things you listed by OS's, which apparently have nothing to do with markets and how they behave...

This is ridiculous and i dont want to get into it but the reason more people use Windows compared to Mac is myriad, including peoples inherent unwillingness to learn new relatively complicated systems, the high cost of switching over, the fact that PCs focused on business whereas Mac originally focused on a graphics machine for a smaller artsy market and PC therefore got a larger market share faster and i could go on and on and on for pages. However i think society has plays and operas pretty much figured out already and for the most part the market has spoken.

Ah, yes. For the thing you like, it must be because of factors other than quality, but for the thing you don't like, it must be because it sucks. I understand now. Thanks for the enlightenment, o wise master.

This is ridiculous and i dont want to get into it but the reason more people use Windows compared to Mac is myriad, including peoples inherent unwillingness to learn new relatively complicated systems, the high cost of switching over, the fact that PCs focused on business whereas Mac originally focused on a graphics machine for a smaller artsy market and PC therefore got a larger market share faster and i could go on and on and on for pages. However i think society has plays and operas pretty much figured out already and for the most part the market has spoken.

I think this calls for.....this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXLyczUMoE)

This is ridiculous and i dont want to get into it but the reason more people use Windows compared to Mac is myriad, including peoples inherent unwillingness to learn new relatively complicated systems, the high cost of switching over, the fact that PCs focused on business whereas Mac originally focused on a graphics machine for a smaller artsy market and PC therefore got a larger market share faster and i could go on and on and on for pages. However i think society has plays and operas pretty much figured out already and for the most part the market has spoken.

Wait, wait, wait.

You actually explicitly point out that Apple deliberately focused on a "smaller, artsy market," and explain that this is why PCs are more ubiquitous. And this doesn't remind you of anything we might be talking about here?

Wait, wait, wait.

You actually explicitly point out that Apple deliberately focused on a "smaller, artsy market," and explain that this is why PCs are more ubiquitous. And this doesn't remind you of anything we might be talking about here?

shhh, facts shmacts. You can use facts to prove anything even remotely true.

Wait, wait, wait.

You actually explicitly point out that Apple deliberately focused on a "smaller, artsy market," and explain that this is why PCs are more ubiquitous. And this doesn't remind you of anything we might be talking about here?

Pffft, as if film, theater, and music have anything to do with art. :rolleyes:

I think this calls for.....this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDXLyczUMoE)

I tried to watch it but the first 30 seconds was piano and ugly colored candles and still black and white pictures so you lost me. Sounds like a made for motion picture movie to me.

South Pacific

A bunch of sailors while on shore leave or sometime still on the ship tap dance and sing.

The whole time you are just praying for the Red October to sail along side blast these guys.

Sailor do not act like that. They drink a lot, fight a lot, and chase women while on shore leave but no tap dancing.

Beside if there is one thing we learned from the Navy there absolutely no tap dancing on a ship. You would confined to quarters or thrown in the brig.



Chicago

Gangsters and lawyers dancing and singing. We all know how well Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, and John Gotti danced. It was that dancing and singing that allow them to stay ahead of the cops.

Wait, wait, wait.

You actually explicitly point out that Apple deliberately focused on a "smaller, artsy market," and explain that this is why PCs are more ubiquitous. And this doesn't remind you of anything we might be talking about here?

Um no, the popularity of Macs in Hollywood and among the graphic design set has little to do with how much Opera sucks.

South Pacific

A bunch of sailors while on shore leave or sometime still on the ship tap dance and sing.

The whole time you are just praying for the Red October to sail along side blast these guys.

Sailor do not act like that. They drink a lot, fight a lot, and chase women while on shore leave but no tap dancing.

Beside if there is one thing we learned from the Navy there absolutely no tap dancing on a ship. You would confined to quarters or thrown in the brig.



Chicago

Gangsters and lawyers dancing and singing. We all know how well Al Capone, Lucky Luciano, and John Gotti danced. It was that dancing and singing that allow them to stay ahead of the cops.

....you apparently haven't even actually seen either of the musicals you're attempting (rather pathetically) to mock. Honestly, if you're going to try to make a point about how stupid a show is, it would behoove you at least to have some vague idea what the show is about.

Um no, the popularity of Macs in Hollywood and among the graphic design set has little to do with how much Opera sucks.

That whooshing sound you hear is the point flying directly over your head.

That whooshing sound you hear is the point flying directly over your head.

Well since im so dumb please explain your point because i dont see how one has to do with the other and I didnt even want to discuss Macs in the first place until i was browbeaten into it.

Well since im so dumb please explain your point because i dont see how one has to do with the other and I didnt even want to discuss Macs in the first place until i was browbeaten into it.

Hint: Macs are not the only products aimed at "smaller, artsy markets."

Hint: Macs are not the only products aimed at "smaller, artsy markets."

Ahh i see where your coming from now, oddly enough this approach by Apple was a marketing failure allowing PC to gain almost 20x the market share that Apple to this day is still trying to dig out of. Go figure.

....you apparently haven't even actually seen either of the musicals you're attempting (rather pathetically) to mock. Honestly, if you're going to try to make a point about how stupid a show is, it would behoove you at least to have some vague idea what the show is about.


I saw enough from the commercials. Pass. At least 20 years out of date.

Clockwork Orange was musical? You wouldn't think the ultra-violence would translate well.

Hint: Macs are not the only products aimed at "smaller, artsy markets."

I suspect in the 1930s 1940s and 1950s musicals wernt considered smaller artsy markets. (Think Wizard of Oz) If this is indeed true, what happened between then and now?

West Side Story

Set in Manhattan's West Side/Hell's Kitchen in the mid-1950s, the musical explores the rivalry between two teenage gangs of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds.


I haven't seen anyone snapping their fingers unless it was for a cab. Leather jackets every now an then and no one breaks into song, unless you count Rap.

I was in a musical a few years ago. A production of Jesus Christ, Superstar. (ok, technically that's a rock opera, but still...)

A few points:

1. I have, on a great many occasions, spontaneously burst into song and expected people to join in. Oftentimes they do so. For that matter, I have, on many many many occasions, spontaneously burst into song expressing my emotions and not really cared if anyone was listening or joining in. Apparently, I am not a person?

Guilty! It became like a sport to me when i was in college...

West Side Story

Set in Manhattan's West Side/Hell's Kitchen in the mid-1950s, the musical explores the rivalry between two teenage gangs of different ethnic and cultural backgrounds.


I haven't seen anyone snapping their fingers unless it was for a cab. Leather jackets every now an then and no one breaks into song, unless you count Rap.

But you didn't live in the 1950's.

I suspect in the 1930s 1940s and 1950s musicals wernt considered smaller artsy markets. (Think Wizard of Oz) If this is indeed true, what happened between then and now?

IF, let's say that somebody makes a new movie based on The Count of Monte Cristo, and it suddenly sells a lot more copies as people try to read it before the film is released. The book is suddenly more popular-- so does the release of the movie retroactively go back in time to make the book better-written?
If not, how do you account for the increase in popularity? After all, you claim that popularity is the single best (or even only!) way to measure quality.
And if popularity is a good measure of quality, how do you explain Reality TV?

I suspect in the 1930s 1940s and 1950s musicals wernt considered smaller artsy markets. (Think Wizard of Oz) If this is indeed true, what happened between then and now?

Tv replaced theatre and cinema.

IF, let's say that somebody makes a new movie based on The Count of Monte Cristo, and it suddenly sells a lot more copies as people try to read it before the film is released. The book is suddenly more popular-- so does the release of the movie retroactively go back in time to make the book better-written?
If not, how do you account for the increase in popularity? After all, you claim that popularity is the single best (or even only!) way to measure quality.
And if popularity is a good measure of quality, how do you explain Reality TV?

Hell, I have a more direct example:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/35/Red_vineyards.jpg

And if popularity is a good measure of quality, how do you explain Reality TV?

Wow... put a fork in that argument, its done.

And if popularity is a good measure of quality, how do you explain Reality TV?

There is nothing wrong with Reality TV, i enjoy Survivor and i think Celebrity Rehab is a very tragic, sad and compelling program. How is that really any different from The Gong Show or The Newlywed Game, Price is Right or anything else similar from 30 years ago? Ive been watching reality TV for 35 years. I call it Football and Baseball and the News.

All of the above are/were popular.

There is nothing wrong with Reality TV, i enjoy Survivor and i think Celebrity Rehab is a very tragic, sad and compelling program. How is that really any different from The Gong Show or The Newlywed Game, Price is Right or anything else similar from 30 years ago? Ive been watching reality TV since i was 5 years old. I call it Football and Baseball and the News.

All of the above are popular.

why don't you take a gander at the painting I posted above, and you can tell me if it's a good painting or not. The man who painted it, despite creating nearly 1000 paintings in his life, only sold one. That one.

Does the fact that he only sold one painting make him a bad painter?

why don't you take a gander at the painting I posted above, and you can tell me if it's a good painting or not. The man who painted it, despite creating nearly 1000 paintings in his life, only sold one. That one.

Does the fact that he only sold one painting make him a bad painter?

We have those people today as well, we call them one hit wonders.

Does the fact that he only sold one painting make him a bad painter?

And to tie this into the other thread:
Should his descendants (or at least those of his brother) have some sort of intellectual property ? ;)
Although the most direct descendant was killed by a muslim terrorist a few years ago.

We have those people today as well, we call them one hit wonders.

I suggest you look this painting up. The artist is not considered a "one hit wonder", but one of the best in history. That recognition however did not come during his lifetime.

We have those people today as well, we call them one hit wonders.

That painting is entitled The Red Vineyards. It is, as I said, the only painting that the artist ever sold in his lifetime. That artist was named Vincent Van Gogh. He is considered to be one of the greatest painters in the modern era, and founder of the expressionist school.

That painting is entitled The Red Harvest. It is, as I said, the only painting that the artist ever sold in his lifetime. The artist being Vincent Van Gogh, who is considered to be one of the greatest painters in the modern era, and founder of the expressionist school.

Tastes change over time, if it wasnt considered good at the time then it simply wasnt good for the time. If your going to argue that its good for todays time thats a different point. What if 70 years from now reality TV is worshipped. Will that make Big Brother any easier for you to watch tomorrow?

Tastes change over time, if it wasnt considered good at the time then it simply wasnt good for the time. If your going to argue that its good for todays time thats a different point. What if 70 years from now reality TV is worshipped. Will that make Big Brother any easier for you to watch tomorrow?

holy crap, does that mean things like tastes, and judgements like "good" are...subjective?

It's rare someone concedes their own argument so utterly. But I thank you for doing so. It took guts.

But you didn't live in the 1950's.

That what is, of course, I should have known. I have always suspected Baby Boomers were a little weird.:p

holy crap, does that mean things like tastes, and judgements like "good" are...subjective?

It's rare someone concedes their own argument so utterly. But I thank you for doing so. It took guts.

What did i do other then say i think Opera and Musicals suck and that they are slowly losing cultural significance and impact. How you interpret this point as a concession of my argument is beyond me. Im sure Opera was wonderful back in the day when your other entertainment option was to shit in a hole. That day is slowly passing.

What did i do other then say i think Opera and Musicals suck and that they are slowly losing cultural significance and impact. How you interpret this point as a concession of my argument is beyond me.

actually you tried to do considerably more than that. You tried to argue that economic viability is a standard to measure objective quality. You also got your ass handed back to you on that subject.

It's only now that you try to retreat to this argument. But don't worry, I'll take it as an implicit concession of your ludicrus point, and spare you the embarassment of having to say "I was wrong"

It's alright though, well all know it anyway.

What did i do other then say i think Opera and Musicals suck and that they are slowly losing cultural significance and impact. How you interpret this point as a concession of my argument is beyond me. Im sure Opera was wonderful back in the day when your other option was to shit in a hole. That day is slowly passing.

You're arguing that musicals are objectively bad because people don't like them. By conceding quality is entirely in the eye of the beholder, you are defeating your argument.

You're arguing that musicals are objectively bad because people don't like them. By conceding quality is entirely in the eye of the beholder, you are defeating your argument.

Ok let me revise my position. Musicals and operas are the most awesome things ever invented by humanity. Better then sliced bread. Despite this, a strange mystery that no human can explain, fewer and fewer people like it and despite its incredible wonderfulness is slowly lapsing into irrelevance. Better?

Ok let me revise my position. Musicals and operas are the most awesome things ever invented by humanity. Better then sliced bread. Despite this, a strange mystery that no human can explain, fewer and fewer people like it and despite its incredible wonderfulness is slowly lapsing into irrelevance. Better?

isn't it amazing how snarky and defensive people can get once they've been shown up?

isn't it amazing how snarky and defensive people can get once they've been shown up?

No i think i delivered my point as intended.

No i think i delivered my point as intended.

you might think that, but you didn't. The point you ACTUALLY delivered is actually one that's far less flattering. It's less of a "I'm so smart, I proved my argument!" point that you think it is "I don't know how to make an argument, so I'm going to flail around like a child!" point.

Ok let me revise my position. Musicals and operas are the most awesome things ever invented by humanity. Better then sliced bread. Despite this, a strange mystery that no human can explain, fewer and fewer people like it and despite its incredible wonderfulness is slowly lapsing into irrelevance. Better?

Ah yes. The only options available are that musicals are objectively horrible or that they are the single greatest thing ever. There is no middle ground.

And, because popularity is the correct measure of quality (I feel no need to back up this assertion; I simply declare it by fiat), and nobody likes musicals (all the successful musicals are just exceptions, and nobody actually likes them anyway!), musicals are therefore horrible and people who watch them are stupid.

:rolleyes:

Ah yes. The only options available are that musicals are objectively horrible or that they are the single greatest thing ever. There is no middle ground.

And, because popularity is the correct measure of quality (I feel no need to back up this assertion; I simply declare it by fiat), and nobody likes musicals (all the successful musicals are just exceptions, and nobody actually likes them anyway!), musicals are therefore horrible and people who watch them are stupid.

:rolleyes:

it's amazing to see the contortions isn't it? Success is a measure of quality, except when it's not, but it doesn't count then, and nobody likes it, except for those that do, and they don't matter! It's almost like somebody didn't actually expect to make an argument, and just decided to be a dick, and got called on it.

Almost exactly like that actually.

I'm glad I got out of here before it got snarky.

it's amazing to see the contortions isn't it? Success is a measure of quality, except when it's not, but it doesn't count then, and nobody likes it, except for those that do, and they don't matter! It's almost like somebody didn't actually expect to make an argument, and just decided to be a dick, and got called on it.

Almost exactly like that actually.

Since when did my expression of my personal opinion give you licence to personally insult me? Is this what they taught you in Law School? "But your Honor, hes a Dick!" /whine

Since when did my expression of my personal opinion give you licence to personally insult me? Is this what they taught you in Law School? "But your Honor, hes a Dick!"
From what I can tell, it's mostly because you expressing your personal opinion was insulting everyone else expressing their personal opinion.

From what I can tell, it's mostly because you expressing your personal opinion was insulting everyone else expressing their personal opinion.

Cite where i did this please. I dont recall insulting anyone.

The fact that somethings been around for a long time doesnt autpomatically qualify it as superior. Sailing vessels have been in existence for many thousands of years, and still exist to some extent today. Yet does anyone claim that sailing is the best form of transportation and the proof is that its been here for 4000 years? Sure there are still sailboats today but its been turned into a quaint relic from a bygone era for hobbyists. Same with Opera. What % of a persons income is spent on Operas and Musicals, then compare that to say video games, TV, internet, radio, Ipods and Hollywood. Ill bet more consumer money is spent on 50 year old board games then is on musicals.

Okay, remember this, because you've just compared art/entertainment to SAILING SHIPS. That's not just apples to oranges, that's apples to alligators.

The fact is that 200 years ago there wasnt much to do, you could read the one book your family owned by candle, or go shit in a hole or go to a play. Musicals and Opera have been relegated to the on sale bin in the back. They simply arnt an important part of society like they used to be. We actually have better choices now. The money we spend on other entertainment choices prove it.

This is why politicians and political science are in such bad shape. Ignorance of history.

Why do you think we dont have Operas and Musicals on prime time network TV all the time? Do you possibly think its because noone would watch them? Nah couldnt be that obvious. It must be an evil plot by uncultured TV executives instead.

We don't? Then why have many shows done "musical" episodes? Buffy, Scrubs -- hell David Kelley's shows from Ally McBeal to Boston Legal are practically musical revues with TV shows on the side.

RHPS is good because its bad, thats kinda the whole point. Nobody throws toast and toilet paper around the theater when The Godfather is playing. So if your suggesting all musicals are good in the same way RHPS is i might be slightly more inclined to agree with you. Swooosh.

Yeah, I've already covered that you need to go get checked out by an endocrinologist for your menstruation problem.

My point is that Operas and Musicals are a form of medium that are losing popularity because frankly it isnt that good particularly when there are now better things to choose to do with your time, unlike your musicals and your audience from 1946.

Losing popularity? Recent movie releases: Moulin Rouge, Chicago, Phantom, Rent, Hairspray, Sweeney Todd, hell, even Forgetting Sarah Marshall had a major plot point that revolved around a puppet musical. Why are you being so deliberately obtuse? Did an actress or singer break your heart or something?

Also, you seem to think that the Golden Age of musicals as movies was a time when there were more musicals than any other kind of picture. You are beyond wrong. The ratio has shrunk because NEWS FLASH, musicals, even movie musicals, are FAR more expensive to make, and in case you haven't noticed, this "blockbuster" phenomenon you keep citing means that studios take less risks.

Why else would there be a "High School Musical 3"? Three! And yet, it's not very popular.

This is ridiculous and i dont want to get into it but the reason more people use Windows compared to Mac is myriad, including peoples inherent unwillingness to learn new relatively complicated systems, the high cost of switching over, the fact that PCs focused on business whereas Mac originally focused on a graphics machine for a smaller artsy market and PC therefore got a larger market share faster and i could go on and on and on for pages. However i think society has plays and operas pretty much figured out already and for the most part the market has spoken.

Tough shit.

YOU brought up the completely asinine comparison between opera and transportation despite the fact that those two things are completely incomparable when it comes to their use or presence in the world.

Well since im so dumb please explain your point because i dont see how one has to do with the other and I didnt even want to discuss Macs in the first place until i was browbeaten into it.

Your words.

You weren't browbeaten into anything. If YOU get to make a completely irrelevant comparison, OTHERS get to make ones that aren't quite as fucked. You don't get to dodge the mine you laid yourself just because you forgot you laid it.

What did i do other then say i think Opera and Musicals suck and that they are slowly losing cultural significance and impact. How you interpret this point as a concession of my argument is beyond me. Im sure Opera was wonderful back in the day when your other entertainment option was to shit in a hole. That day is slowly passing.

Except that they're not, as has been consistently shown in this thread.

You're arguing that musicals are objectively bad because Intestinal Fluids don't like them. By conceding quality is entirely in the eye of the beholder, you are defeating your argument.

Fixed for accuracy. He's yet to show that "people" don't like them. Or even what that actually means.

Ok let me revise my position. Musicals and operas are the most awesome things ever invented by humanity. Better then sliced bread. Despite this, a strange mystery that no human can explain, fewer and fewer people like it and despite its incredible wonderfulness is slowly lapsing into irrelevance. Better?

Are you blind? Why the audiences for Broadway? Why are there package vacations designed just to go there and see shows? Why the fuck was "Mamma Mia!" a huge hit (I'm no fan of that one, but still)?

You bet your snide-and-regal-pronouncement-slinging ass it's "better". It's a pity you had to admit it out of sarcasm rather than just admitting you're wrong because you're trying to make what YOU think the opinion of some mythical EVERYONE.

I don't give a shit if YOU don't like something. I learned a long time ago to stay out of baseball threads because I don't like baseball. If you hate musicals so much, just admit that instead of trying to institute your opinion as some kind of popular groundswell. That's a tactic of schoolchildren.

Since when did my expression of my personal opinion give you licence to personally insult me? Is this what they taught you in Law School? "But your Honor, hes a Dick!" /whine

In Law school they taught him how to debate against intelligent people making decent points. It's tough to apply those lessons here.

it's amazing to see the contortions isn't it? Success is a measure of quality, except when it's not, but it doesn't count then, and nobody likes it, except for those that do, and they don't matter! It's almost like somebody didn't actually expect to make an argument, and just decided to be a dick, and got called on it.

Almost exactly like that actually.

This. ^

In Law school they taught him how to debate against intelligent people making decent points. It's tough to apply those lessons here.

You clearly have spent very little time in court. Lmao

Since when did my expression of my personal opinion give you licence to personally insult me? Is this what they taught you in Law School? "But your Honor, hes a Dick!" /whine

It's funny how people expect me to apply what I do for a job to them, here, for free. Tell ya what, you want my "I'm a lawyer" argument? That's cool. My time is billed out at $300 an hour. I'll wait for your check.

It's also equally amusing how the comparison is always the same. Would you argue like that in front of a judge? Well, no, of course not. However, if opposing counsel had laid their argument out the way you had, I really wouldn't have to.

Fixed for accuracy. He's yet to show that "people" don't like them. Or even what that actually means.


Oh, I was merely summarizing his argument. I wasn't claiming that his premises were correct. I know that musicals are quite well liked; after all, Broadway is still wildly successful.

The thing that IF doesn't understand is that the popularity of any given genre is somewhat cyclical--just like any fashion. Musicals might relatively "out of fashion" right now, if you compare it to certain other points in the past, but they're gaining popularity at the moment, I think. I mean, the film versions of Sweeney Todd and Phantom of the Opera did quite well, and, as you pointed out, many shows have done musical episodes-- episodes that frequently turn out to be quite popular. It's rare I meet a Buffy fan, for example, that doesn't love "Once More, With Feeling." And Dr. Horrible was very well-received, to the point where when the third Act was released, fans managed to crash the servers within minutes.

It's funny how people expect me to apply what I do for a job to them, here, for free. Tell ya what, you want my "I'm a lawyer" argument? That's cool. My time is billed out at $300 an hour. I'll wait for your check.

No i expect you to be a reasonable non insulting person for free in the same way i expect any other person on this forum to be the same. Or do lawyers insist on charging for not insulting someone?

No i expect you to be a reasonable non insulting person for free in the same way i expect any other person on this forum to be the same.

I treat those with exactly the level of respect they've earned. When you have earned my politeness, you'll receive it.

[QUOTE=Neo Art;14498164]I treat those with exactly the level of respect they've earned. When you have earned my politeness, you'll receive it.

Wow how incredibly egocentric of you, so by that logic i could say insulting terrible things about you and to you all day long until Ive unilaterally decided you have or havnt jumped thru enough hoops to suit me to make me stop? Cool.

Wow how incredibly egocentric of you,

Yes, it is.

so by that logic i could say insulting terrible things about you and to you all day long until Ive unilaterally decided you have or havnt jumped thru enough hoops to suit me to make me stop? Cool.

You could do whatever suits your fancy. Fortunately, I've reached the point in my life where I stopped caring about what people I don't know and have no influence over my life think or say about me. I think I was around age 9 when that happened.

Fortunately, I've reached the point in my life where I stopped caring about what people I don't know and have no influence over my life think or say about me. I think I was around age 9 when that happened.

Yet you managed to get your panties in a wad about someone elses opinion about Opera and Musicals. Way to go tough guy. Mom would be proud.

Yet you managed to get your panties in a wad about someone elses opinion about Opera and Musicals. Way to go tough guy. Mom would be proud.

This is a debate forum, it's a place for debate. If you post your opinion, it's going to get argued with and discussed. If you can't handle that, I suggest a debate board is probably not the best place for you.

However, if you are under the impression that I think about you, or what you had to say, when I'm not on here, I fear you're sadly mistaken. I contend that between the two of us, it's you who has far too great an ego.

I promise you, short of the service this forum provided in giving me some entertainment and distraction, I really don't care about who you are, what you have to say, or what your particular feelings are. In short, though it may hurt you to tell you this, I don't think about you when you're not around.

Oh yeah, what's your favorite or least favorite musical?
Fave : I dunno, Carmen I guess.
Least Fave : Rocky Horror Picture Show, which is rubbish -_-

[QUOTE=Neo Art;14498258]This is a debate forum, it's a place for debate. If you post your opinion, it's going to get argued with and discussed.

I agree with you 100%. Could you show me in the debate book the proper times to call your opponent a dick? I seem to be missing that page.

Least Fave : Rocky Horror Picture Show, which is rubbish -_-

But thats what makes it so good ;)

RHPS is Mystery Science Theater 3000 with an entire audience of people making wise assed comments instead of 2 robots and a guy.

But thats what makes it so good ;)
Hiter was rubbish? Does that make him good? Yes, I just compared the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Rightly so.

I saw enough from the commercials. Pass. At least 20 years out of date.

....do you get how colossally silly this sounds when the movie in question got rave reviews, made a boatload of money, and won the freaking Oscar for Best Picture (along with five other Oscars, if I recall correctly)? But all those people who actually saw the movie are wrong, and you are right, on the basis of a vaguely-remembered commercial?

I mean, honestly, people, how hard is it to understand the difference between, "It did not look like a movie I personally would enjoy" and "It was a bad movie that no one would enjoy"?

Hiter was rubbish? Does that make him good? Yes, I just compared the Rocky Horror Picture Show. Rightly so.

Are you familiar with the concept of something being so bad its good? Have you ever watched MST3000? I recommend it if you havnt, it might give you a better understanding of what im talking about.

Are you familiar with the concept of something being so bad its good? Have you ever watched MST3000? I recommend it if you havnt, it might give you a better understanding of what im talking about.
MST3k is just genius though :tongue: (well Joel's eps are, not a fan of Mike)

....do you get how colossally silly this sounds when the movie in question got rave reviews, made a boatload of money, and won the freaking Oscar for Best Picture (along with five other Oscars, if I recall correctly)? But all those people who actually saw the movie are wrong, and you are right, on the basis of a vaguely-remembered commercial?

I mean, honestly, people, how hard is it to understand the difference between, "It did not look like a movie I personally would enjoy" and "It was a bad movie that no one would enjoy"?

Only slightly less painful than drilling screws into one own hand.

Only slightly less painful than drilling screws into one own hand.

yet...nobody is actually making you watch it, are they?

Ahh i see where your coming from now, oddly enough this approach by Apple was a marketing failure allowing PC to gain almost 20x the market share that Apple to this day is still trying to dig out of. Go figure.

....except, you know, it's not really a "marketing failure" unless your goal is "corner the market." For most business endeavors, the actual goal is "make a lot of money." Apple does fine there. That said, it becomes even sillier to suggest that the goal of any form of entertainment is to corner the entertainment market. Television producers make no effort to stop people from seeing movies. Moviemakers do not fight to keep people from buying books. Publishers have never attempted to dissuade anyone from listening to the radio. All of these groups are well aware that pretty much everyone consumes multiple forms of entertainment, and that they are not in remotely direct competition with each other. That's why it's absurd to suggest that Broadway shows - which still make a lot of money - are somehow failures because people watch TV more. Well, duh, say the Broadway show producers, there are only so many seats in our theatres. How on earth could it be otherwise?

I've done it before, too. Maybe there's something about a dreary data-processing pool (I was a datamonkey at the time) that lends itself well to escapism, but one more than one occassion I led a spontaneous office rendition of the "Prince Ali" song from Aladdin, or something like it.

We were in a theme park... a boring theme park. We got rained out of the one attraction left that might have been interesting. He started singing. No one sang along with him.

Only slightly less painful than drilling screws into one own hand.

The movie which you never saw was painful to you?

Does this argument actually make sense in your head?

The movie which you never saw was painful to you?

Does this argument actually make sense in your head?

based on the other arguments made on different subjects...I'm guessing no, no they do not.

The movie which you never saw was painful to you?

Does this argument actually make sense in your head?


I guess it is all a matter of taste. Also anything with Abba music is right out! Some people watch traffic accidents, listen to police scanners, watch cops mostly to see if anyone you know got busted.

I guess it is all a matter of taste.

Wow, who would have figured...

Same thing would happen if I said football was the king of all sports.

I guess it is all a matter of taste.

Um, yes. This has been my point and several other people's point for the last several pages. Hence why it is absurd to allege that all musicals are inherently bad and "out-of-date," rather than to say, "I do not think I would enjoy musicals much, personally."

Also anything with Abba music is right out!

...okay? I assume you're referring to Mamma Mia. You do know that's only one musical, right? And that it bears pretty much no resemblance to any of the other musicals you've mentioned how much you hated without ever having seen?

Some people watch traffic accidents, listen to police scanners, watch cops mostly to see if anyone you know got busted.

Also, some people like bouncing on pogo sticks.

I have no idea why we're listing things some people do.

Um, yes. This has been my point and several other people's point for the last several pages. Hence why it is absurd to allege that all musicals are inherently bad and "out-of-date," rather than to say, "I do not think I would enjoy musicals much, personally."



...okay? I assume you're referring to Mamma Mia. You do know that's only one musical, right? And that it bears pretty much no resemblance to any of the other musicals you've mentioned how much you hated without ever having seen?



Also, some people like bouncing on pogo sticks.

I have no idea why we're listing things some people do.

Oh, based on this.

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?


Music doesn't do a real good job of delivering a story in my opinion. Music can show a feeling sort of but when you apply that to sailors tap dancing or leather clad gang members snapping their finger something is lost. I think the problem may be "show tunes".

Same thing would happen if I said football was the king of all sports.

Yes. You would get crosschecked, tackled, have a pitch thrown at you, been knocked over by a bowling ball, trampled by race cars, and slam dunked through a garbage can, I'd guess.

Oh, based on this.

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?


Music doesn't do a real good job of delivering a story in my opinion. Music can show a feeling sort of but when you apply that to sailors tap dancing or leather clad gang members snapping their finger something is lost. I think the problem may be "show tunes".

The sailors tap-dancing and gangs snapping fingers are the types of things I have problems with in musicals. I have nothing against duets between lovers, battle-rally type tunes, or even quiet, corny monologues done in a sad faraway song voice, but the more dance-oriented stuff, I guess, when applied to thugs and soldiers, seems at best ridiculous and at worst mocking. I can't take it seriously at that point.

With that said, I think music, with or without song is one of the BEST ways to tell a story. Ever since people drummed across the jungle to tell the evening news, it's been a part of human kind. So I suppose I can say that I don't mind musicals, just the spontaneous dance aspect of certain musicals.

I agree with you 100%. Could you show me in the debate book the proper times to call your opponent a dick? I seem to be missing that page.

He didn't. YOU used the quote "but your honor, he's a dick" -- so you basically called yourself a dick. Which is at least mildly funny, in context.

But thats what makes it so good ;)

RHPS is Mystery Science Theater 3000 with an entire audience of people making wise assed comments instead of 2 robots and a guy.

No, that's RHPS with a live audience. I agree that that combination can be entertaining, though mostly it's crap with people present laughing at a host of inside jokes and throwing things. Kinda like the Algonquin Round Table if they were monkeys. At least the three times I went to see it "live" at The Neptune in Seattle, that's what it was.

Watch the film without a crowd. It's horrid. It doesn't know whether it's camp or serious.

....do you get how colossally silly this sounds when the movie in question got rave reviews, made a boatload of money, and won the freaking Oscar for Best Picture (along with five other Oscars, if I recall correctly)? But all those people who actually saw the movie are wrong, and you are right, on the basis of a vaguely-remembered commercial?

I mean, honestly, people, how hard is it to understand the difference between, "It did not look like a movie I personally would enjoy" and "It was a bad movie that no one would enjoy"?

Bullseye, as usual.

He didn't. Using the quote "but your honor, he's a dick" is not calling you a dick.

Fix your quote, I take no responsibility for that :p

Are you familiar with the concept of something being so bad its good? Have you ever watched MST3000? I recommend it if you havnt, it might give you a better understanding of what im talking about.

That's not an example of "so bad it's good". It's "this is bad, so we write and invent clever and hilarious commentary to mock how bad it is". How can you not see that distinction?

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised that you can't -- you thought that RHPS automatically included the live crowds doing their own spoofs. You see, we're talking about the films themselves, not deliberate and/or campy mockeries of them.

Fix your quote, I take no responsibility for that :p

Whoa, my bad. IF said that, not NA. Will fix.

Same thing would happen if I said football was the king of all sports.

But not because you're wrong or right, because that's not possible to determine. The same thing would happen because you would have made a sweeping declaration based solely on your personal opinion. Frankly, that deserves to be smacked down. Hence, IF's getting the business end of one in this thread.

Oh, based on this.

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?


Music doesn't do a real good job of delivering a story in my opinion. Music can show a feeling sort of but when you apply that to sailors tap dancing or leather clad gang members snapping their finger something is lost. I think the problem may be "show tunes".

And that's the end of that argument. Everything after that is irrelevant or at least wildly personal.

"Music can show a feeling sort of", I swear, I've not heard much that was funnier than that.

The dancing in musicals is meant to represent that which would not show well (fighting), that which would be inappropriate for wide audiences (sex), and as a stand in for action of all sorts. It's a physical, terpsichoreal metaphor.

The dancing in musicals is meant to represent that which would not show well (fighting), that which would be inappropriate for wide audiences (sex), and as a stand in for action of all sorts. It's a physical, terpsichoreal metaphor.

As anyone that is a Buffy fan knows.

He didn't. YOU used the quote "but your honor, he's a dick" -- so you basically called yourself a dick. Which is at least mildly funny, in context.

Post #190 in reference to post #189. You think i just pulled that out of the air for no reason? And he certainly didnt deny it. I accept your apology.



No, that's RHPS with a live audience. I agree that that combination can be entertaining, though mostly it's crap with people present laughing at a host of inside jokes and throwing things. Kinda like the Algonquin Round Table if they were monkeys. At least the three times I went to see it "live" at The Neptune in Seattle, that's what it was.

Watch the film without a crowd. It's horrid. It doesn't know whether it's camp or serious.

I think with that description of RHPS that you just gave, its funny that you went, and then went back again, and went back a third time. How many more times would you have gone if it was even more horrid? Maybe its just me but i dont tend to go to things i think are "mostly... crap" again and again and again.

"We're On a Mission from God."

You want chilling?


Now the nightmare's real
Now Dr. Horrible is here
To make you quake with fear
To make the whole world kneel
And I won't feel
A thing.
:(

No, no. That's merely depressing. The beginning of the song is more disturbing simply because of it's dissonance. See, the lyrics at the beginning are triumphant and victorious:

Here lies everything,
The world I wanted at my feet.
My victory's complete,
so hail to the King.

So your world's benign
So you think justice has a voice
And we all have a choice
But now your world is mine.

But they're set to the wrong tune. Neil Patrick Harris sings it as a funeral dirge instead.

Aw, hell. The whole thing's littered with that kind of stuff.

No, no. That's merely depressing. The beginning of the song is more disturbing simply because of it's dissonance. See, the lyrics at the beginning are triumphant and victorious:

Here lies everything,
The world I wanted at my feet.
My victory's complete,
so hail to the King.

So your world's benign
So you think justice has a voice
And we all have a choice
But now your world is mine.

But they're set to the wrong tune. Neil Patrick Harris sings it as a funeral dirge instead.

Aw, hell. The whole thing's littered with that kind of stuff.

Well, the bit I quoted is mainly about the last line-- the last two words-- in contrast to the rest. Yeah, he's this badass super villain and all, got into the ELE, but ultimately he's doomed to live out all his life as a lonely sad man. The death of Penny is the death of his last hope for redemption. And that's one of the most disturbing things in the world to me to me--an absence of hope. And he has to bury that, and act like this great supervillain-- but every day, all he'll ever think about is Penny.

Well, the bit I quoted is mainly about the last line-- the last two words-- in contrast to the rest. Yeah, he's this badass super villain and all, got into the ELE, but ultimately he's doomed to live out all his life as a lonely sad man. The death of Penny is the death of his last hope for redemption. And that's one of the most disturbing things in the world to me to me--an absence of hope. And he has to bury that, and act like this great supervillain-- but every day, all he'll ever think about is Penny.

I felt like there were two personas, the Dr. Horrible persona that was the supervillain, and the Billy one that was the weak-willed nice guy. I'd say the reason that Dr. Horrible was so ineffectual was because Billy was holding him back from being too dangerous. At the end of Act II, Dr. Horrible gains some ground and is actually competent, but Billy still holds enough influence to keep from killing someone--Hammer, of all people!

It's that one traumatic event though that effectively "kills" Billy. Horrible takes full control and becomes a real supervillain with nothing to hold him back anymore. Essentially Dr. Horrible gains it all and Billy loses it all,

Suck.

"We're On a Mission from God."

Way better movie.

Who is that woman?

Singing is okay in movie if you do not sing your lines.

Post #190 in reference to post #189. You think i just pulled that out of the air for no reason? And he certainly didnt deny it. I accept your apology.

You're referring to this:

it's amazing to see the contortions isn't it? Success is a measure of quality, except when it's not, but it doesn't count then, and nobody likes it, except for those that do, and they don't matter! It's almost like somebody didn't actually expect to make an argument, and just decided to be a dick, and got called on it.

Almost exactly like that actually.

I didn't apologize to you because you don't deserve one. If you truly thought Neo Art crossed the line, you would have reported him. You didn't. You are acting like a dick, and you did get called on it. Pointing out your behavior isn't the same as calling you a name.

That being said:

I think with that description of RHPS that you just gave, its funny that you went, and then went back again, and went back a third time. How many more times would you have gone if it was even more horrid? Maybe its just me but i dont tend to go to things i think are "mostly... crap" again and again and again.

Gee, no assumptions in that post. :rolleyes:

The only thing that keeps me from calling you something that would earn me a ban, and something you certainly deserve after that piece of shit post, is my intact record of never receiving one.

If you must know, I was 21 years old, and my best friend was in the "live show" and really wanted me to go, so I went. I met someone who, like me, was there to support friends. I went back two more times to meet her there and see other friends in the "show". After the third weekend, we left our friends to their passion and we discovered ours.

I've been to many very bad shows because friends were in them, or in some cases, because friends were directing them. It's a kind of occupational hazard sometimes when you teach in the arts.

Lets face it, Shakespeare movies arnt breaking box office records anywhere that im aware of.

I...you broke my mind. It doesn't work anymore. Because you broke it. With stupid.

I saw enough from the commercials. Pass. At least 20 years out of date.

Yeah, it's clear that you really don't know anything about the movies. Those were obviously some shitty commercials.

I'm glad I got out of here before it got snarky.

I'm sad I came late. This was a totally one-sided beatdown of epic proportions.

Suck.
Pigface / Trent Reznor?

This thread went to suck with all the fighting...

I felt like there were two personas, the Dr. Horrible persona that was the supervillain, and the Billy one that was the weak-willed nice guy. I'd say the reason that Dr. Horrible was so ineffectual was because Billy was holding him back from being too dangerous. At the end of Act II, Dr. Horrible gains some ground and is actually competent, but Billy still holds enough influence to keep from killing someone--Hammer, of all people!

It's that one traumatic event though that effectively "kills" Billy. Horrible takes full control and becomes a real supervillain with nothing to hold him back anymore. Essentially Dr. Horrible gains it all and Billy loses it all,

Interestingly enough, I think that this dual nature might be why Dr. Horrible's machines often don't work too well-- deep down, Billy really doesn't want to hurt anybody, so he introduces slight flaws into the design. This is his redeeming feature, the essential reason that he's still better than Captain Hammer, who has no real concern for the safety of others.
That is, until the end. And the gloves he dons are black-- like Captain Hammer's-- symbolizing that he has become just like him in that regard.

So what is NSG's take on musicals? Do you love em? Hate em? Don't really care? How do you feel about music delivering a story?

The reason I brought this up is because I started watching Sweeney Todd last night, and I had no idea it was a musical. I absolutely hate musicals, so I turned it off. My best friend said it's worth watching though.

Maybe I'll watch it.

Oh yeah, what's your favorite or least favorite musical?


They're okay, some aren't bad. I rather enjoyed Roger Waters' The Wall (movie), and the relatively recent Phantom of the Opera was pretty good as well.

Pigface / Trent Reznor?

As the only person here who is likely to understand, I hereby award you this kudos I just found. Scrape off the cheese.

As the only person here who is likely to understand, I hereby award you this kudos I just found. Scrape off the cheese.

Hey now, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who like NIN...

EDIT: and I mean likes well enough to know some of the trivia/history behind certain songs and such.

Hey now, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who like NIN...

EDIT: and I mean likes well enough to know some of the trivia/history behind certain songs and such.

By 'plenty'... I suspect you may mean 'three'.

:D

Interestingly enough, I think that this dual nature might be why Dr. Horrible's machines often don't work too well-- deep down, Billy really doesn't want to hurt anybody, so he introduces slight flaws into the design. This is his redeeming feature, the essential reason that he's still better than Captain Hammer, who has no real concern for the safety of others.
That is, until the end. And the gloves he dons are black-- like Captain Hammer's-- symbolizing that he has become just like him in that regard.

I'm pretty much in agreement on this.

The real question being "Will Joss Whedon ever write a musical with a happy ending?"

OK, maybe not the real question. But more interesting than people going on about how forms of art they don't like are objectively not good.