NationStates Jolt Archive

Hello fellow generalites, I've got a question for all of you lot although its particularly aimed at British/English members. Does anyone else hate the classification of a language option as "English" when they really mean "American English"?
An example of this would be the "English" language version of wikipedia where almost every other page is dotted with American language annoyances like missing out the letter 'U' and other alterations which cause my eyes to start bleeding. Another example would of course be when selecting a language when playing a game or watching a DVD, and seeing the American flag next to the word English.
I have no problem with the emergence of regional dialects like that of the United States, and I'm certainly not proposing an instition similar to the Académie française merely some kind of clear denotation between proper/english English and American english. Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.
I realise that you might assume that I'm some kind of mad nationalist from the above comments, but I'm actually just interested to know if there are some people who share this somewhat idiosyncratic pet hatred of mine.

Hello fellow generalites, I've got a question for all of you lot although its particularly aimed at British/English members. Does anyone else hate the classification of a language option as "English" when they really mean "American English"?
An example of this would be the "English" language version of wikipedia where almost every other page is dotted with American language annoyances like missing out the letter 'U' and other alterations which cause my eyes to start bleeding. Another example would of course be when selecting a language when playing a game or watching a DVD, and seeing the American flag next to the word English.
I have no problem with the emergence of regional dialects like that of the United States, and I'm certainly not proposing an instition similar to the Académie française merely some kind of clear denotation between proper/english English and American english. Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.
I realise that you might assume that I'm some kind of mad nationalist from the above comments, but I'm actually just interested to know if there are some people who share this somewhat idiosyncratic pet hatred of mine.I can easily see this ending badly.
I'll just go with myself as an example ... i speak "honky".

Color.
Color.
Color.
Color.
Color.
Color.

:D

Hello fellow generalites, I've got a question for all of you lot although its particularly aimed at British/English members. Does anyone else hate the classification of a language option as "English" when they really mean "American English"?
An example of this would be the "English" language version of wikipedia where almost every other page is dotted with American language annoyances like missing out the letter 'U' and other alterations which cause my eyes to start bleeding. Another example would of course be when selecting a language when playing a game or watching a DVD, and seeing the American flag next to the word English.
I have no problem with the emergence of regional dialects like that of the United States, and I'm certainly not proposing an instition similar to the Académie française merely some kind of clear denotation between proper/english English and American english. Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.
I realise that you might assume that I'm some kind of mad nationalist from the above comments, but I'm actually just interested to know if there are some people who share this somewhat idiosyncratic pet hatred of mine.

Britain and the United States- two nations divided by a single language.

The US is the single largest English-speaking country on Earth and easily the most influential in terms of its impact on global culture. For better or for worse, the way we speak is going to have massive influence on the way English is spoken around the world so it makes sense that ours is the predominant conception for the language.

The US is the single largest English-speaking country on Earth and easily the most influential in terms of its impact on global culture. For better or for worse, the way we speak is going to have massive influence on the way English is spoken around the world so it makes sense that ours is the predominant conception for the language.

Just as England was, say, up to the end of WWII?

The US is the single largest English-speaking country on Earth and easily the most influential in terms of its impact on global culture. For better or for worse, the way we speak is going to have massive influence on the way English is spoken around the world so it makes sense that ours is the predominant conception for the language.Pedant. :p

Australian English is the correct version.

I have no problem with the emergence of regional dialects like that of the United States, and I'm certainly not proposing an instition similar to the Académie française merely some kind of clear denotation between proper/english English and American english. Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.
What do you mean by 'original variant'?

British English is, obviously, not the same English that Chaucer spoke, and not the same English as spoken by the 17th and 18th century British immigrants to what would become the United States.

English is a evolving language and, perhaps more so than some other languages, derived from a large base of sources. British English claims no more a legitimate hold on being the 'original variant' than US English or Aussie English does.

The last word, I think, must go to Eddie Izzard:

"You say 'tomayto', we say 'tomahto'. You say 'erbs', and we say 'herbs'.

'Cos it's go a fucking 'h' in it."

Shhhh, the UK speaks British not English. >_>

How do you like that the USA stole the language. Just kidding. It doesn't bother me at all, so long as I can understand.

pedant. :p

Straughn! Why must you always strike at my moments of greatness?

What do you mean by 'original variant'?

British English claims no more a legitimate hold on being the 'original variant' than US English or Aussie English does.



I've got to disagree with you there, English English is both older than both those variants and most importantly originates in England. England quite simply gave its name to English, as its language, and I think it could be quite easily said that the variant spoken by the English people is the one that can most accurately be called the original.

(Straughn was right :p)

The English that was spoken hundreds of years ago is called "old english". Then there is "British English" and "American English". I dont see how you can call yourselves the originators of the language. You are no more the originators than we are. Our ancestors just moved.... We didn't just hear you guys speaking it and decide, hmmm... lets speak it too but we'll just change it around a little bit...

Straughn! Why must you always strike at my moments of greatness?Because ... it is precisely that/those which magnifies my lack of greatness, and i strike out from a cold, dark, hollow place.
You know, my location.
<======================

I've got to disagree with you there, English English is both older than both those variants and most importantly originates in England. England quite simply gave its name to English, as its language, and I think it could be quite easily said that the variant spoken by the English people is the one that can most accurately be called the original
That's simply false.

British English is obviously not "the original" English; it's wildly different to Middle English, and even more changed from Old English and the Brythonic spoken by the pre-Norman Britons.

Because ... it is precisely that/those which magnifies my lack of greatness, and i strike out from a cold, dark, hollow place.
You know, my location.
<======================

You're lucky I'm enjoying an ice-cold Guinness right now...

You're lucky I'm enjoying an ice-cold Guinness right now...Hey, knock back the usual 7 ounces more, and i'll be over in a jiffy with my special ziploc bag of scented lotion.

Hey, knock back the usual 7 ounces more, and i'll be over in a jiffy with my special ziploc bag of scented lotion.

I could go for a sensual massage right now. Just a couple of bros, drinking Guinness and giving each other massages...

I always find it annoying when I read a wikipedia articles full of superfluous u's.

I always find it annoying when I read a wikipedia articles full of superfluous u's.
It's made up for all the bloody z's you lot throw about with such vigour.

I've got to disagree with you there, English English is both older than both those variants and most importantly originates in England. England quite simply gave its name to English, as its language, and I think it could be quite easily said that the variant spoken by the English people is the one that can most accurately be called the original.

(Straughn was right :p)

This is not how I was taught in linguistics at uni. Generally, long established centres of a language evolve rapidly; colonised centres tend to remain static. We were told that Americans speak an older form of English than do the residents of Great Britain.

I could go for a sensual massage right now. Just a couple of bros, drinking Guinness and giving each other massages...
Sure. Since i'm apprenticing a new (and controversial) technique, i'll happily waive the usual fee. I don't even think i need cab fare this time. :)

It's made up for all the bloody z's you lot throw about with such vigor.

Fixed your spelling. ;)

I think it's silly, a couple of different words aren't going to change the meaning much, and if people somehow fail to catch on on the differences, they're dumb.

The US is the single largest English-speaking country on Earth and easily the most influential in terms of its impact on global culture. For better or for worse, the way we speak is going to have massive influence on the way English is spoken around the world so it makes sense that ours is the predominant conception for the language.

Is this actually certain? It probably is, but I wouldn't be hugely surprised to find that say 25% of Indians speak English.

(Straughn was right :p)Whoa. Thank you.
Kinda makes me feel bad about taking advantage of Vetalia in front of everyone like that.
I guess i'll have to back to my shameful ways with less lighting than this.

This is not how I was taught in linguistics at uni. Generally, long established centres of a language evolve rapidly; colonised centres tend to remain static. We were told that Americans speak an older form of English than do the residents of Great Britain.

Surely Webster's reforms throw a spanner in that idea.

Only I speak the correct English, anybody who speaks a form of English different to me is speaking a petty pidgin.

This is not how I was taught in linguistics at uni. Generally, long established centres of a language evolve rapidly; colonised centres tend to remain static. We were told that Americans speak an older form of English than do the residents of Great Britain.

you are correct.
American English is closer to Shakespearean English than British english.
2 things changed British English.
1. the vowel shift.
2. a shift of the language when this wee German lad was invited to become king. (it is the queen/king's English after all)


To the OP most of those who bother to denote British English also denote American English. The flag on dvds is normally based off the studio's location and i find it helpful in determining the dialect. My Monty Python DVD has the union jack in the language selection.

I completely agree that more distinction needs to be made between British English and American English! I would almost like them to be considered a different language altogether. Sometimes it bothers me when I see a British flag next to the English option, I haven't seen an American flag there very often. And it bothers me when I see all of those useless "u"s in there. I understand Spanish (at least a certain dialect of it) better than I understand some British people. I do insist that some of their spellings are inferior and were changed for no good reason, but I can see how they would be as annoyed (if not more) that they get mixed up with us (I didn't like it when I was confused with a British person once.)

Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.The original version? Hah, you're funny.

Is this actually certain? It probably is, but I wouldn't be hugely surprised to find that say 25% of Indians speak English.

~10% of Indians speak English.

~10% of Indians speak English.

last estimate I saw was about 8%. though in all fairness its hard to distinguish between indians English and the creole/pidgin of Indian

Good God, its the same language. In Canada we use both sometimes even in the same sentance. I fail to see how it confuses and annoys you.

I've got to disagree with you there, English English is both older than both those variants and most importantly originates in England. England quite simply gave its name to English, as its language, and I think it could be quite easily said that the variant spoken by the English people is the one that can most accurately be called the original.


You're entirely wrong, sorry. American English is actually slightly closer to Elizabethan English (when the split between the two dialects began) than British English is. If being "the original" is your standard, American English it is.

That said, I actually find people on both sides whining about differences in dialect rather ridiculous. I have no more difficulty understanding the word "colour" than the word "color" or vice versa, and I highly suspect you don't, either. The whole thing seems to be some sort of weird "my dialect's metaphorical penis is bigger than your dialect's metaphorical penis" contest, and it's just silly.

~10% of Indians speak English.

Source?

If you're going off the wiki article then that stat was taken from nearly 20 years ago. It'd be unusual I admit to find that someone other than the USA was top, but I wouldn't be surprised to see India haven't closed/are closing the gap at a fair rate.

Good God, its the same language. In Canada we use both sometimes even in the same sentance. I fail to see how it confuses and annoys you.

As for you Canadians make up your mind, British English or American English.

You're entirely wrong, sorry. American English is actually slightly closer to Elizabethan English (when the split between the two dialects began) than British English is. If being "the original" is your standard, American English it is.


In accent perhaps. But in spelling terms most American spellings come from Webster rather than being older surely.

Source?

If you're going off the wiki article then that stat was taken from nearly 20 years ago.

Good point, a new survey would probably be in order.
It'd be unusual I admit to find that someone other than the USA was top, but I wouldn't be surprised to see India haven't closed/are closing the gap at a fair rate.


Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there are more English users in the USA than there are in all the rest of the world combined.

Personally I tout the advantages of the pure form of English spoken by Tupac Shakur and the Notorious BIG.

Source?

If you're going off the wiki article then that stat was taken from nearly 20 years ago. It'd be unusual I admit to find that someone other than the USA was top, but I wouldn't be surprised to see India haven't closed/are closing the gap at a fair rate.

you know Indian has been trying to phase out English(or at least when the hindus have power), as they view it as

the Indian Census in 2000 list it as 10.66%. (including English as 2nd and 3rd know language speakers.)
and I am fairly certain that includes a fair bit what would be viewed as pidgin/creole.
http://tesol-india.ac.in/EnglishTeachingIndustry/en/india-worlds-second-largest-english-speaking-country

this article explains the difficulty in classifying India in relations to an English speaker. though they still consider Indian 2nd.

All english dialects are going to conglomerate into a single language anyways, so don't worry. It's still going to be based on "American English" more than anything. Most technical work that's communicated internationally is this way already.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there are more English users in the USA than there are in all the rest of the world combined.

Personally I tout the advantages of the pure form of English spoken by Tupac Shakur and the Notorious BIG.

To be an English user all you need to be able to do is read basic English.
in which case Indian and china would each have 350 million of those. larger then the US populations.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if there are more English users in the USA than there are in all the rest of the world combined.


As just a first language maybe. If your talking all English speakers then not even close.

To be an English user all you need to be able to do is read basic English.
in which case Indian and china would each have 350 million of those. larger then the US populations.

Hmm, I see...

All english dialects are going to conglomerate into a single language anyways, so don't worry. It's still going to be based on "American English" more than anything. Most technical work that's communicated internationally is this way already.

That's a shame. Damn the internet and mass communication technologies.

the Indian Census in 2000 list it as 10.66%. (including English as 2nd and 3rd know language speakers.)
and I am fairly certain that includes a fair bit what would be viewed as pidgin/creole.
http://tesol-india.ac.in/EnglishTeachingIndustry/en/india-worlds-second-largest-english-speaking-country


Erm, read your own link. It doesn't say what you say it does.

Hmm, I see...

speakers of English in Indian is between 90 mil and like 120 mil.

In accent perhaps. But in spelling terms most American spellings come from Webster rather than being older surely.

I think it's actually about even on spellings.

One also has to remember that, before people started writing dictionaries, there was no such thing as standardized spelling. Both "color" and "colour" date back well before the dialects split; Webster merely picked the one he liked best (which happened to be different than the one Sam Johnson liked best) and declared it "correct." :p

I think your real problem would be that the majority of those things are made in America....

You want a British Flag by something, Make it....

That said, I actually find people on both sides whining about differences in dialect rather ridiculous. I have no more difficulty understanding the word "colour" than the word "color" or vice versa, and I highly suspect you don't, either. The whole thing seems to be some sort of weird "my dialect's metaphorical penis is bigger than your dialect's metaphorical penis" contest, and it's just silly.

Agreed. I have about equal difficulty understanding the spoken English of people from parts of Scotland, Mississippi and Newfoundland.

Mississippi

And I thought I talk good :(


:p lmao

that's it Obama Versus Brown no holds bared. The winner's country gets the right to declare what the official English is.

that's it Obama Versus Brown no holds bared. The winner's country gets the right to declare what the official English is.

You havent seen what Obama looks like under the suit have you?


...Lets just say, im Feelin pretty Confident....

And I thought I talk good :(


:p lmao

Whoops! No offense. Louisiana is worse!

Whoops! No offense. Louisiana is worse!

I blame the French for that.

Whoops! No offense. Louisiana is worse!Is this eventually going to work its way around to Alabama?

Whoops! No offense. Louisiana is worse!

They are pretty bad, The worst though is definitely North Florida, the Redneck hold out area, lol...Above Tampa Bay, and east of Pensacola...

They make us look Civilized, lol...

there ARE some significant differences in meaning. for instance amerenglish siding = britenglish loop. amerenglish chips = britenglish crisps. britenglish chips = amerenglish frys. the latter might not sound too important, but mistaking a railroad siding for a balloon track or a helix might.

when i have a blank to fill in, rather then a checkbox, i frequently write in "amerenglish", though i have usually no great difficulty with both.

there ARE some significant differences in meaning. for instance amerenglish siding = britenglish loop. amerenglish chips = britenglish crisps. britenglish chips = amerenglish frys. the latter might not sound too important, but mistaking a railroad siding for a balloon track or a helix might.

when i have a blank to fill in, rather then a checkbox, i frequently write in "amerenglish", though i have usually no great difficulty with both.

What the hell is a railroad siding?

Is this eventually going to work its way around to Alabama?

...

I'm just going to go over there now...

*slinks off to corner to be alone with her superior West Coast English*

...

I'm just going to go over there now...

*slinks off to corner to be alone with her superior West Coast English*Have you ever heard someone say something that just makes you go "What?"
That happens every five seconds in Alabama, mostly because nobody understands each other. I'm not even sure we speak English. More like some kind of improvised...something, but I'm not sure you can call it English. :D

...

I'm just going to go over there now...

*slinks off to corner to be alone with her superior West Coast English*

don't make me like gag you with a spoon.

that's it Obama Versus Brown no holds bared. The winner's country gets the right to declare what the official English is.

Hmm, interesting idea. Brown's got the weight advantage, but Obama's probably in better shape. Brown's blind in one eye, so it's an advantage to Obama, but if he puts a patch over it he gains a level in badass. Brown's rugby background vs Obama's basketball (I think?) background just leans it to Brown imho.

I can't say I had actually noticed that any wikipedia articles used US spelling. When I write them I use English spelling, though I may well change US spelling to English if I am editing one. But to be honest I don't mind either way as long as the spelling is correct as either English or US English.

In other words I dislike poor spelling and grammar rather than which set of language rules people use.

I can't say I had actually noticed that any wikipedia articles used US spelling. When I write them I use English spelling, though I may well change US spelling to English if I am editing one. But to be honest I don't mind either way as long as the spelling is correct as either English or US English.

In other words I dislike poor spelling and grammar rather than which set of language rules people use.

Nigerian English spelling is more interesting i think.

Nigerian English spelling is more interesting i think.

Maybe that is just the spammers.

Hey, don't complain about the difference until you've tried speak/hearing redneck. That should be a whole new choice on DVDs.

-snip-

The American flag next to 'English' is irritating, but apart from that it doesn't bother me too much. Language evolves, and given the fact that we have been two separate countries for so long it's amazing how similar the two versions still are.

The only time American spelling irritates me is when English people use it in their work. They have no reason to use the wrong version.

there ARE some significant differences in meaning. for instance amerenglish siding = britenglish loop. amerenglish chips = britenglish crisps. britenglish chips = amerenglish frys. the latter might not sound too important, but mistaking a railroad siding for a balloon track or a helix might.

when i have a blank to fill in, rather then a checkbox, i frequently write in "amerenglish", though i have usually no great difficulty with both.

I think the worst part is that they smoke homosexuals in Britain and call them names.

This is not how I was taught in linguistics at uni. Generally, long established centres of a language evolve rapidly; colonised centres tend to remain static. We were told that Americans speak an older form of English than do the residents of Great Britain.

Broadly true, I am led to believe. Of course, one can simply use that to say that American English hasn't kept up with the times, and should be abandoned in favour of the more modern British English :P

Surely Webster's reforms throw a spanner in that idea.

Nope, afraid not. Webster was primarily dealing with spelling, not word choice and things like that.

In accent perhaps. But in spelling terms most American spellings come from Webster rather than being older surely.

No, it's not accent. American English tends to use somewhat more archaic forms than British English, in terms of word choice and sentence structure.

As far as the actual topic goes, I'm going to steal a quote about the whole issue: "I prefer the 'u' in honour as it seems to be missing these days." I don't really give a damn, but use British spellings myself.

Hello fellow generalites, I've got a question for all of you lot although its particularly aimed at British/English members. Does anyone else hate the classification of a language option as "English" when they really mean "American English"?
An example of this would be the "English" language version of wikipedia where almost every other page is dotted with American language annoyances like missing out the letter 'U' and other alterations which cause my eyes to start bleeding. Another example would of course be when selecting a language when playing a game or watching a DVD, and seeing the American flag next to the word English.
I have no problem with the emergence of regional dialects like that of the United States, and I'm certainly not proposing an instition similar to the Académie française merely some kind of clear denotation between proper/english English and American english. Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.
I realise that you might assume that I'm some kind of mad nationalist from the above comments, but I'm actually just interested to know if there are some people who share this somewhat idiosyncratic pet hatred of mine.

no, but the bolded bit annoys me.

this kind of thing is ok though http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/9530/americanenglish20flagir8.jpg

I don't really mind. I do feel superior when talking to Americans though.

I don't really mind. I do feel superior when talking to Americans though.

I'm fairly sure you feel superior when talking to anybody.

I'm fairly sure you feel superior when talking to anybody.

That's true.

I say there is a HUGE destination between say cockney and gerodie and mackem and Lancastrian and Yorkshire and that's just scratching the surface.

England has many dialects incase people did not know there is not only the BBC accent whatever it is thats shown on TV now a days, so really in response to the poll question "Is lack of dialect distinction in English, annoying?" I would have to say NO because there are many dialects each sounding different, yes there are similarities but so are there in many things.
On one hand one can say the same thing about american, most people tend to think of american in either "Texan" "Stereotypical high-school girl" or "New York" and don't really consider regional and state dialects and so would say the the "lack of dialect distinction" is annoying.

As for your American spelling, I have to say that pisses me off too. The one that gets me is Aluminum which is actually aluminium and color which is colour and of course soccer which is supposed to be football.

Ok, I'll stop my rant now O_o

I'm not bothered too much about spelling, as long as it's understandable.

It's phrases like 'I wrote him' and others with missing articles that annoy me. Is this a form of archaic grammar, or just laziness?

Agreed. I have about equal difficulty understanding the spoken English of people from parts of Scotland, Mississippi and Newfoundland.
Whit?

Y'on lugs nae workin, but?

Really depends. I'm an inveterate, incorrigable snob for an accent, and, if only due to a traditional education, have an inherent rectitude of spelling and grammar.

The only accents that really get my goat are Scouse, Mancunian, Yorkshire, Geordie, Cockney, Estuary, Welsh, West Country and Brummie/Black Country.

Really depends. I'm an inveterate, incorrigable snob for an accent, and, if only due to a traditional education, have an inherent rectitude of spelling and grammar.

The only accents that really get my goat are Scouse, Mancunian, Yorkshire, Geordie, Cockney, Estuary, Welsh, West Country and Brummie/Black Country.

So, that only leaves the Home counties, South coast, Irish and Scottish? :p

So, that only leaves the Home counties, South coast, Irish and Scottish? :p

Royal Pronunciation, and such Celtic accents as are "romantic", preferably.:tongue:

Really depends. I'm an inveterate, incorrigable snob for an accent, and, if only due to a traditional education, have an inherent rectitude of spelling and grammar.
Not to burst your bubble, or raise any doubts about your rectitude as regards your use of the language, but...

...that's not how incorrigible is spelled :p

...that's not how incorrigible is spelled
There goes tbc's Royal Society membership...

There goes tbc's Royal Society membership...
Indeed.

Perhaps I should have cut him some slack... that terrible, terrible beating that his beloved cricket team took yesterday may have knocked him for six, as it were.;)

The US is the single largest English-speaking country on Earth and easily the most influential in terms of its impact on global culture. For better or for worse, the way we speak is going to have massive influence on the way English is spoken around the world so it makes sense that ours is the predominant conception for the language.
I disagree. I think English will break down into regional dialects that will be difficult to understand from peoples outside that area. In Asia, you'd be hard-pressed to understand 1/2 of what people say when they speak in English as it'll be littered with idioms, phrases, words and corruptions from their own language.

The US is the single largest English-speaking country on Earth and easily the most influential in terms of its impact on global culture. For better or for worse, the way we speak is going to have massive influence on the way English is spoken around the world so it makes sense that ours is the predominant conception for the language.

Seems to me that the colony outnumbers the colonizer with regard to more than just English. Think of how many more Spanish speaking people there are outside of Spain than in it. The various dialects of Spanish are at least as numerous as those of English.

I've got to disagree with you there, English English is both older than both those variants and most importantly originates in England. England quite simply gave its name to English, as its language, and I think it could be quite easily said that the variant spoken by the English people is the one that can most accurately be called the original.


The colonies also represent a kind of linguistic snapshot of the language as it was spoken at that time. You've been shown to be incorrect on your point by more than one poster, but this snapshot effect might be part of the reason why.

You're entirely wrong, sorry. American English is actually slightly closer to Elizabethan English (when the split between the two dialects began) than British English is. If being "the original" is your standard, American English it is.

That said, I actually find people on both sides whining about differences in dialect rather ridiculous. I have no more difficulty understanding the word "colour" than the word "color" or vice versa, and I highly suspect you don't, either. The whole thing seems to be some sort of weird "my dialect's metaphorical penis is bigger than your dialect's metaphorical penis" contest, and it's just silly.

Once again, you've crystallized my thoughts eloquently. Some people just like to bitch.

I like the differences of spelling. It's simple indication of where the writing came from. It doesn't bother me at all. If someone wants to get into it with me on this topic, all I have to do is point out that all the "u" and "s" foolishness both the British and US folks complain about is just a result of the Norman French influence from 1066 and on. It was a result of conquest.

Also, I'm not entirely sure why anyone would be so anal about single letters in that way. After all, were the British pronouncing those words so affected correctly, they'd sound different. "Colour", if the U is to actually mean something, could be pronounced "kuh-LOOR" -- but it isn't. So what's the problem?

Forget color-colour. The real issue is Z.

What do you mean by 'original variant'?

British English is, obviously, not the same English that Chaucer spoke, and not the same English as spoken by the 17th and 18th century British immigrants to what would become the United States.

English is a evolving language and, perhaps more so than some other languages, derived from a large base of sources. British English claims no more a legitimate hold on being the 'original variant' than US English or Aussie English does.

The last word, I think, must go to Eddie Izzard:

"You say 'tomayto', we say 'tomahto'. You say 'erbs', and we say 'herbs'.

'Cos it's go a fucking 'h' in it."
Careful now. There har those who hadd their haitches where no haitch heggsists in heither variant, hand they hain't from the hew hess of hay.

Good God, its the same language. In Canada we use both sometimes even in the same sentance. I fail to see how it confuses and annoys you.
Some people actively seek out things at which to take offense.

This is one of them.

You're entirely wrong, sorry. American English is actually slightly closer to Elizabethan English (when the split between the two dialects began) than British English is. If being "the original" is your standard, American English it is.

That said, I actually find people on both sides whining about differences in dialect rather ridiculous. I have no more difficulty understanding the word "colour" than the word "color" or vice versa, and I highly suspect you don't, either. The whole thing seems to be some sort of weird "my dialect's metaphorical penis is bigger than your dialect's metaphorical penis" contest, and it's just silly.
I think I'm in (platonic) love. ;)

Platonic, really? How disappointing, I think you two would make a cute couple. :p

Carterway doesn't like to share, and neither do I. :)

its nay English It's Bloody Scottish! Scotland haha lets face it though english is spoken in many different ways. we are just going to have to live with that. aslong as the words sound the same im not bothered about the spelling but american english annoys me why can't it just becalled English?...

just because we were in an imense amount of debt after WWII Ment That America Became the super power of the world. I find it saddening that it couldn't be left how it was. but thats just the patroit inside of me speaking speaking like :P

but anyways Scotland is Gonna take over the world one day :D

Careful now. There har those who hadd their haitches where no haitch heggsists in heither variant, hand they hain't from the hew hess of hay.
Hay his fohr horses.



Perhaps I should have cut him some slack... that terrible, terrible beating that his beloved cricket team took yesterday may have knocked him for six, as it were.
You're a cruel, cruel man.



...but anyways Scotland is Gonna take over the world one day :D
*imagines Salmond as World Leader*

*runs screaming*

Don't you love it when people with no linguistic background like to make attacks against another linguistic group that is extremely similar to their own and claim superiority?

I don't really see a problem with it. After all, the US has English as one of the main languages because it was an English colony for quite a while. Besides, everyone knows there's a distinction. Americans have a particular way of speaking it, so do the British.

It's the same with Spanish. There's the brand spoken in Spain, with a character all its own, and then you have the many variations of it spoken in Latin America. If anything, these variants have enriched, to some extent, the original language.

Oh my.

Go read some sociolinguistics and historical linguistics before you start trying to argue about languages and genetic relationships and dialects and accents and everything else.

The bottom line is this: no one agrees in the details, but everyone who has thought about it seems to agree that the term "language" (as used in "the English language") is more of a cultural and political idea than an actual distinction.

Others have pointed out incorrect statements made by others, but this caught my eye:


As for your American spelling, I have to say that pisses me off too. The one that gets me is Aluminum which is actually aluminium and color which is colour and of course soccer which is supposed to be football.

Ok, I'll stop my rant now O_o

Aluminum/Aluminium: Both are equally acceptable, but if you want to apply the "originality" standard from earlier in the thread, then aluminum slightly predates aluminium.

Soccer/Football: Soccer is actually just more specific. Football, more technically, does not refer to one game, but a family of games. However, people often use the word to refer to just one game, be it soccer or gridiron or any other variant (much like with Solitaire or Poker). And, by the way, the name doesn't come from the fact that you use your feet, but from the fact that it's played on foot. (Whereas the sports of nobles were more often on horseback.) The word "soccer," by the way, is derived from "Association" football.

I mean, seriously folks, if you want to compare your language variants' penises, that's fine, but at least try to have some clue of basic facts.

Wrong, I'd shoot anyone who used "aluminium" (and was American). I'd do the world a favour.

You're entirely wrong, sorry. American English is actually slightly closer to Elizabethan English (when the split between the two dialects began) than British English is. If being "the original" is your standard, American English it is.

That said, I actually find people on both sides whining about differences in dialect rather ridiculous. I have no more difficulty understanding the word "colour" than the word "color" or vice versa, and I highly suspect you don't, either. The whole thing seems to be some sort of weird "my dialect's metaphorical penis is bigger than your dialect's metaphorical penis" contest, and it's just silly.

Where does this factoid come from? I've heard it many times before. I do, however, wonder which particular American English dialect it references and which particular British English dialect it references. I don't suppose many a Brit would be able to understand someone speaking in a true Broad Yorkshire accent, let alone anyone from else where in the world.

Aluminum/Aluminium: Both are equally acceptable, but if you want to apply the "originality" standard from earlier in the thread, then aluminum slightly predates aluminium.Heh. My Scottish Chemistry teacher once told me that Aluminum was one of the original names thought up by the chemist who was trying to isolate the metal. Only some ponce in an arts journal objected, saying the -um ending wasn't sufficiently classical and suggested the -ium ending. The -ium ending was used in the US until the beginning of the 20th century when a spelling error in an advertisement missed out the 'i'. And so began the end of a century of the metal being known as aluminium in America. Funny old world.

Heh. My Scottish Chemistry teacher once told me that Aluminum was one of the original names thought up by the chemist who was trying to isolate the metal. Only some ponce in an arts journal objected, saying the -um ending wasn't sufficiently classical and suggested the -ium ending. The -ium ending was used in the US until the beginning of the 20th century when a spelling error in an advertisement missed out the 'i'. And so began the end of a century of the metal being known as aluminium in America. Funny old world.

Sir Humhprey Davy (clever bloke, invented and discovered lots of stuff).

Originally called it Alumium, then tried to switch to Aluminum. General Scientific community said you need an -ium ending and made it aluminium. The story about the advertising "error" is fairly true though.

Sir Humhprey Davy (clever bloke, invented and discovered lots of stuff).

Originally called it Alumium, then tried to switch to Aluminum. General Scientific community said you need an -ium ending and made it aluminium. The story about the advertising "error" is fairly true though.

I always thought it was a shame that alumium wasn't also widely used somewhere. Then our word battles could be threesomes. :D

Color.
Color.
Color.
Color.
Color.
Color.

:D

On one of my college papers there was a big red circle around the word "colour." I asked my professor why it was marked as it was a proper English spelling of the word. His reply was a very curt, "Mr. C, you are NOT in England." :(

I have a real issue with the americans spelling of Aluminium...which they wrongly spell Aluminum...and the worst of them all

Center...instead of centre...it looks fooking horrible :mad:

Hello fellow generalites, I've got a question for all of you lot although its particularly aimed at British/English members. Does anyone else hate the classification of a language option as "English" when they really mean "American English"?
An example of this would be the "English" language version of wikipedia where almost every other page is dotted with American language annoyances like missing out the letter 'U' and other alterations which cause my eyes to start bleeding. Another example would of course be when selecting a language when playing a game or watching a DVD, and seeing the American flag next to the word English.
I have no problem with the emergence of regional dialects like that of the United States, and I'm certainly not proposing an instition similar to the Académie française merely some kind of clear denotation between proper/english English and American english. Also the way I find English as spoken in England referred to as "British English" annoys me to no end, as the originators of the language I fail to see why our original variant should have some kind of adjective to describe it.
I realise that you might assume that I'm some kind of mad nationalist from the above comments, but I'm actually just interested to know if there are some people who share this somewhat idiosyncratic pet hatred of mine.

If you don't like the annoyance of dealing with the differences then the Brits ought not of changed it.

Sir Humhprey Davy (clever bloke, invented and discovered lots of stuff).

Originally called it Alumium, then tried to switch to Aluminum. General Scientific community said you need an -ium ending and made it aluminium. The story about the advertising "error" is fairly true though.

So...iron (ferrum), copper (cuprum), tin (stannum), silver (argentum), gold (aurum), lead (plumbum), as well as boron, astatine, bismuth, carbon, hydrogen, and the noble gases (save for helium), and a few others must have been all wrong, then? Even if that story is true, its logic is suspect.

However, it's probable that the "General Scientific" community (the laughable caps on that weirdness aside), perhaps didn't foresee aluminum's great value. Seems to me that the -um ending equates it with copper, lead, tin, silver and gold -- all very valuable and useful elements, just like aluminum became in the 20th century.

Whit?

Y'on lugs nae workin, but?

Ah, yes. About that...

*hits Chumbly over the head with a handbag with a brick in it before she can figure out what he's saying*

In Asia, you'd be hard-pressed to understand 1/2 of what people say when they speak in English as it'll be littered with idioms, phrases, words and corruptions from their own language.

One of my best friends is from Singapore, and once after talking to her sister on the phone someone asked her what language she'd been speaking. She was quite confused, because speaking English oreddy wat. :P

I have a real issue with the americans spelling of Aluminium...which they wrongly spell Aluminum...and the worst of them all

Center...instead of centre...it looks fooking horrible :mad:

Does it rhyme with "sentry" in England?

So...iron (ferrum), copper (cuprum), tin (stannum), silver (argentum), gold (aurum), lead (plumbum), as well as boron, astatine, bismuth, carbon, hydrogen, and the noble gases (save for helium), and a few others must have been all wrong, then? Even if that story is true, its logic is suspect.

It is true, suspect logic and all. At the time the fashion for elements discovered at the time was more for -ium endings. Most of the ones you mention were discovered at different times (I believe the -um ones you mentioned were named by the Romans).


However, it's probable that the "General Scientific" community (the laughable caps on that weirdness aside), perhaps didn't foresee aluminum's great value. Seems to me that the -um ending equates it with copper, lead, tin, silver and gold -- all very valuable and useful elements, just like aluminum became in the 20th century.
Like I said, I don't think there was any logic in it beyond many people preferred the sound of -ium for elements discovered at the time. General Scientific community is an overstatement naturally, but even science has its fashions.

General Scientific community is an overstatement naturally, but even science has its fashions.

Indeed. Remember the time a certain early 20th century theoretical physicist showed up to the annual Nobel Prize Also-Rans soiree with that ridiculous blue lab coat, when the invitation expressly stated that the theme of the night was "Twilight in Tweed"? Even the entomologists were having a crack at him by the end of the night.

It is true, suspect logic and all. At the time the fashion for elements discovered at the time was more for -ium endings. Most of the ones you mention were discovered at different times (I believe the -um ones you mentioned were named by the Romans).


Like I said, I don't think there was any logic in it beyond many people preferred the sound of -ium for elements discovered at the time. General Scientific community is an overstatement naturally, but even science has its fashions.

So, the Romans weren't good enough for the General Scientific community, eh? I see a solution -- TO THE TIME MACHINE!

Meh! Whats the big deal?

You actualy hate, and lets think about that word 'hate' for while, you actulay hate it that in some places on the World Wide Web, that English is spelt the American way?

Shit mate there are tons more hatefull things in the world. Perhaps, just perhaps these web pages you talk about are American in origin?

Meh! Whats the big deal?

You actualy hate, and lets think about that word 'hate' for while, you actulay hate it that in some places on the World Wide Web, that English is spelt the American way?

Shit mate there are tons more hatefull things in the world. Perhaps, just perhaps these web pages you talk about are American in origin?

Exactly. All that matters is that English speakers can understand each other, be them writing in British or American English. At least that's how I see it.

Meh! Whats the big deal?

You actualy hate, and lets think about that word 'hate' for while, you actulay hate it that in some places on the World Wide Web, that English is spelt the American way?

Shit mate there are tons more hatefull things in the world. Perhaps, just perhaps these web pages you talk about are American in origin?

http://ramblingrhodes.mu.nu/archives/internet-serious-business-cat.jpg