NationStates Jolt Archive


Etiquette is Important. Especially in the UK

Galloism
06-02-2009, 21:16
So what do you do if you get hit with a snowball? The BBC answers:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7874587.stm

With swathes of Britain covered in snow this week innocent folk have found themselves the unwitting targets of snowball attacks launched by grinning children. But how to react, asks Brendan O'Neill?

Snowball fights are breaking out everywhere. Some children, who have never seen so many inches of snowfall before, are enjoying the age-old, mischievous pastime of pelting one another with hand-rolled balls of slush for the first time.

Adults are joining in, too. The London bus drivers who found themselves with idle hands on Monday indulged in some snow fighting instead, while David Cameron got in on the act - hurling snowballs at his education spokesman Michael Gove.

But not everyone is happy with the storm of snow-throwing. Where in the past - as epitomised in those nostalgia-tinged tomes The Dangerous Book for Boys and The Daring Book for Girls - snow fighting seemed to be accepted as a normal part of life in a week-long winter wonderland, today there seems to be confusion, even green shoots of anger, over certain kinds of snowy activity.

The Daily Mirror reports that snowball fights have sparked an "avalanche" of 999 calls. Around one in seven of the calls made to police control rooms at the height of the snowy weather were about snowballs hitting people, private property or moving vehicles. On Monday, Cambridgeshire police received 121 about youths chucking snow.

"It shows how times have changed," said an officer.

When police in Hertfordshire warned children that throwing snowballs in an "irresponsible way" could face arrest or a fine, they were branded "winter killjoys". Yet one man certainly struggled to see the funny side after his van was pelted by a snow-wielding gang of children near Alexandra Palace in London. He pulled out a Stanley knife to frighten his woolly-gloved assailants away.

So what is the proper snowballing etiquette? Is it acceptable for children to lob snowballs at adults, including perfect strangers? And should the chucking of a snowball ever become a police matter?

Night of misrule

Simon Fanshawe, writer, broadcaster and author of The Done Thing: Negotiating the Minefield of Modern Manners, says those complaining to authority about being hit by a snowball are missing the point.

Snowstorms, he says, turn society's "normal structure of authority" on its head, allowing kids to mock and embarrass adults in a way that they would never normally do.

"Manners are all about context. They are not about set rules that must always be followed. Etiquette changes depending on where you are and who you are with."

And the wonderful thing about heavy snow, says Fanshawe, is that it creates a "situation like Twelfth Night". "Twelfth Night is all about the 'night of misrule', where the servants become the masters and the masters become the servants. When snow covers Britain, something similar happens: children who would normally avoid even speaking to adults suddenly feel it is okay to throw projectiles at us.

"Snow temporarily undermines the normal structure of authority, which means it is perfectly acceptable for children to throw snowballs at strangers."

If a child were to throw something like a shoe or pencil case at a passing man or woman on a normal, non-snowy Monday morning, that would be bad manners, says Fanshawe, since it would "disrupt normal activity". But when it snows heavily, "normal activity" is disrupted anyway, and the "rules change".

What is it about snow that alters the "structures of authority"?

Lob one back?

"Well, for a start, public space becomes extremely malleable", says Fanshawe. "The distinction between road and pavement becomes less clear. Trees look less like trees and more like decorations. And school is out. Some adults don't go to work. Normality is turned on its head - and children can sense that."

Fanshawe was hit by a snowball while out jogging this week. He responded by throwing one back.

Kate McNab, a criminal solicitor in Abingdon, Oxfordshire, says that snowball-throwing could, strictly speaking, count as a form of common assault, which is when someone causes someone else to "fear or apprehend" that unlawful violence will be used against them.

"Common assault can be carried out intentionally or recklessly, which could also be the definition of hitting someone with a snowball", she says.

However, most snowball-throwing is not malicious in intent - "the intent is to have fun", says McNab - and therefore it is unlikely that many people will make a serious legal complaint.

"The real problem arises when snow is thrown at fast-moving cars. That can be dangerous."

Judi James, a leading expert in body language and social behaviour, agrees that snowballing is a fun, rule-thwarting activity - but she says it also exposes adults' underlying uncertainty today about what is an acceptable way to relate to children.

Where's the dignity?

"Children have always thrown snowballs at adults. In the past they tried to knock off gentlemen's top hats with snowballs.

"And back then, there was that wonderful adult response of shaking your fist at a child while also smiling - a response that expressed both adult authority and a recognition that children will be children. It wasn't a menacing response."

Today, however, adults feel they are caught in a Catch 22, says James.

"We sometimes don't know how to respond to something like a snowball. Some adults feel it demeans their dignity and compromises their status. All their pent-up anger, all the times their boss has had a go at them, can be unwittingly released when they are hit on the head by a snowball. But if you respond too pompously, you're likely to be hit by 20 more.

"And in our era of the nanny state, if you decide to join in the fun and throw a snowball back at the children, and it happens to contain a stone or too much ice, will you get into trouble?"

The new tortured debate about snow fighting shows how "adult authority and responses have changed" in recent years, says James.

Stuart Waiton of the Scottish youth charity Generation says the important thing for adults is - no pun intended - to keep their cool. "Kids can smell weakness, uncertainty, and other behaviour that is not 'adult-like'.

"And any adult who gets involved in a snowball fight must be aware that this means he is now entering their world - and you will therefore no longer be in control."

Fun fun. How about you NSG, are you confused and bewildered about etiquette when snow falls on your lands?
Mad hatters in jeans
06-02-2009, 21:18
throw one back, shirley?
Conserative Morality
06-02-2009, 21:20
I love snowball fights, it saddens me that so many people are getting into a tizzy about this. It's just a ball of wet, white powder! I could understand if it was filled with a rock, but just a plain snowball? It seems like a huge overreaction to go to the police. Or pull out a knife.
New Wallonochia
06-02-2009, 21:25
Fun fun. How about you NSG, are you confused and bewildered about etiquette when snow falls on your lands?

I'd be in rough shape if I were.
Forsakia
06-02-2009, 21:25
Just don't be bothered by it. With one major exception re:moving vehicles. That is dangerous, one snowball lands on the windshield and blocks the drivers view then bad things can happen very fast.
Mad hatters in jeans
06-02-2009, 21:29
Just don't be bothered by it. With one major exception re:moving vehicles. That is dangerous, one snowball lands on the windshield and blocks the drivers view then bad things can happen very fast.

yah but if you 'accidently' run over the person who threw the snowball you can say it was their fault you couldn't see, you get lotsa monies and you take a trip to tokyo on your new earnings. and you never have to worry about snow again....(j/K)
Pure Metal
06-02-2009, 21:44
i don't think its "nanny state", just uptight, aggressive people who like to complain, call the police, and sue. same deal with the schools being shut this week - they shut out of fear of being sued by angry parents, not out of some pointless nanny-state health & safety guff.

if people stopped threatening to sue other people over trivial shit, most of this crap wouldn't be a problem imo
Call to power
06-02-2009, 21:45
I tend to be the one throwing snowballs (I got pummeled by old ladies yesterday though:() mostly because snow is for fun which is why its made of water

the guy with the Stanley knife is a prick...as indicated by him thinking a Stanley knife is a weapon

David Cameron got in on the act - hurling snowballs at his education spokesman Michael Gove.

:D...damn populist
Pope Lando II
06-02-2009, 21:48
This is why God invented guns. Problem solved.
Dylsexic Untied
06-02-2009, 21:49
Okay, coming from an area where 3 feet (1 meter) of snow just means you have to shovel your way to the school bus, what the hell?
Call to power
06-02-2009, 21:59
This is why God invented guns. Problem solved.

snow bullets?

Okay, coming from an area where 3 feet (1 meter) of snow just means you have to shovel your way to the school bus, what the hell?

its an unofficial national holiday...everyone Englishman just knows not to turn up at work
Kamsaki-Myu
06-02-2009, 23:31
What do you do when someone throws a snowball at you? Catch it and throw that very same snowball back at them. If there are two, then use the first to hit the second out of the air. Then walk on while they're working out what the heck just happened.
Dylsexic Untied
06-02-2009, 23:37
What do you do when someone throws a snowball at you? Catch it and throw that very same snowball back at them. If there are two, then use the first to hit the second out of the air. Then walk on while they're working out what the heck just happened.

Or make your own and hit them before they have the chance.
That's why I always carry two when there's snow.
Boihaemum
06-02-2009, 23:43
I grew up in the desert and now mostly live in a Mediterranean climate, so I would be very confused if a lot of snow suddenly fell.
Brittanican Adenia
06-02-2009, 23:44
It's less the snowballs and more the barrage of abuse that comes with them, I find to be the problem. It's less childish fun, more intimidation nowadays.
Kamsaki-Myu
06-02-2009, 23:52
Or make your own and hit them before they have the chance.
That's why I always carry two when there's snow.
Yeah, but if you use theirs, you get to leave under a veil of general awe, rather than being forced to retreat.
Chandelier
06-02-2009, 23:55
Fun fun. How about you NSG, are you confused and bewildered about etiquette when snow falls on your lands?

Not something I have to deal with... :p
Brittanican Adenia
06-02-2009, 23:59
Not something I have to deal with... :p

Ruddy floridians. ;)

(It's Barronia. Long time no see!)
L-rouge
07-02-2009, 00:01
There's no snow, so not a problem.
Yootopia
07-02-2009, 00:36
So what do you do if you get hit with a snowball?
Obviously throw one back in a flirty manner if an attractive girl, regular for not-so-attractive women and men I don't know, and fill with gravel for friends :)
Chandelier
07-02-2009, 00:55
Ruddy floridians. ;)

(It's Barronia. Long time no see!)

Haha, yeah... although it does snow in the northern parts sometimes... but it's very rare further south in Florida. Like, in 1977 Tampa got less than an inch of snow.

(Oh, hi! Yeah, it has been a long time!)
Extreme Ironing
07-02-2009, 00:55
It strikes me that the whole country seems momentarily confused when it snows. How will we get to work/school? What will the children do if school's closed? Can I act like a child now? Of course, I just take the liberty of cancelling any engagement I have and spend the day having fun.
Galloism
07-02-2009, 00:56
Haha, yeah... although it does snow in the northern parts sometimes... but it's very rare further south in Florida. Like, in 1977 Tampa got less than an inch of snow.

(Oh, hi! Yeah, it has been a long time!)

Hello again Chandler. Remember me? Muahahaha.
Chandelier
07-02-2009, 00:57
Hello again Chandler. Remember me? Muahahaha.

Yes... uh, why the evil laughter? <.<
Brittanican Adenia
07-02-2009, 00:58
Haha, yeah... although it does snow in the northern parts sometimes... but it's very rare further south in Florida. Like, in 1977 Tampa got less than an inch of snow.

(Oh, hi! Yeah, it has been a long time!)

Heh. We've had a foot in less than a week. I've had two days off work! Woo! Mind you, I prefer the UK this way. Colder, but it hides the shoddy horrible buildings ;)
Galloism
07-02-2009, 00:59
Yes... uh, why the evil laughter? <.<

I don't know. I'm in an odd mood.

Besides, I don't know how to put the Darth Vader breathing effect into text.


Ever since I moved to Orlando, I've really missed snow. :(
Chandelier
07-02-2009, 01:02
Heh. We've had a foot in less than a week. I've had two days off work! Woo! Mind you, I prefer the UK this way. Colder, but it hides the shoddy horrible buildings ;)

We get days off for...hurricanes and tropical storms. But playing in those is not generally advisable. :p

I don't know. I'm in an odd mood.

Besides, I don't know how to put the Darth Vader breathing effect into text.


Ever since I moved to Orlando, I've really missed snow. :(

Oh, okay...

Ah. I didn't know you were in Orlando.
Galloism
07-02-2009, 01:04
Oh, okay...

Ah. I didn't know you were in Orlando.

Yeah, we get weather in the 20s and 30s but no snow, which is like getting an STD but no sex.
Brittanican Adenia
07-02-2009, 01:05
We get days off for...hurricanes and tropical storms. But playing in those is not generally advisable. :p

No sense of risk, my sweet, no sense of risk ;)

So where've you been?
United Dependencies
07-02-2009, 01:13
It's times like these that I go from hating my school system to loving them. In NC we get snow once a year if were lucky. And even if we get half an inch our school systems freak out and cancel school. Then all the people from the north are like "wtf? just not even a foot." And nobody here seems to know how to drive when it is snowing. They go on thinking they can go the same speed they always do. Oh and one last thing whevener it snows even if it only snows for like 2 hours everyone rushes to the store to buy 3 weeks worth of milk eggs and bread.

(we are so unacustomed to snow here in the old north state:rolleyes:)
Chandelier
07-02-2009, 01:13
No sense of risk, my sweet, no sense of risk ;)

So where've you been?

In school. You have a TG. :D

Yeah, we get weather in the 20s and 30s but no snow, which is like getting an STD but no sex.

We've had that kind of weather lately, too. I really don't like having to walk to my 8 AM class now, not that that would ever be something to look forward to...
Galloism
07-02-2009, 01:15
We've had that kind of weather lately, too. I really don't like having to walk to my 8 AM class now, not that that would ever be something to look forward to...

You should get a Harley and park it in the lobby.
Dylsexic Untied
07-02-2009, 01:17
God (http://www.gardenrant.com/my_weblog/images/2008/11/04/blizzardthruwaysign.jpg) I (http://www.geog.missouri.edu/images/digest/buffalo_snow.JPG) miss (http://onlineathens.com/images/123001/buffalo_snow.jpg) the (http://www.forgottenbuffalo.com/images/250_Buffalo_Snow_1977_4.jpg) snow (http://graphics2.snopes.com/photos/natural/graphics/buffalo2.jpg).
United Dependencies
07-02-2009, 01:26
wow all those pics. That is a real goddamn snow. Not like the light dusting we get here.