NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.silicon.com/publicsector/0,3800010403,39391135,00.htm

The first UK ID cards have already been issued - but no UK police officers or border guards have any way of reading the data stored on them.

Currently no police stations, border entry points or job centres have readers for the card's biometric chip, the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) revealed in response to an FoI (Freedom of Information) request by silicon.com about the £4.7bn identity cards scheme.

The news comes in spite of the first ID cards being issued to foreign nationals in November last year, with the IPS expecting to issue 50,000 ID cards by April this year.

The cards themselves carry biographical data, as well as facial and fingerprint scans. While some details about the holder as well as their photo is printed on the face of the card, the cardholder's fingerprints can only be accessed by reading the chip.

With no readers in place, police and immigration officers are currently still relying on traditional methods of checking ID cardholders' identity, running a fresh set of prints against existing identity databases.

Identity minister Meg Hillier told silicon.com last week that the chip is a "vital part" of the ID card scheme because the "fingerprint coded into the chip … links you to the card".

The broken nature of that link has already prompted criticism by the government's political rivals. Shadow home secretary Chris Grayling said: "Once again ministers have shown that the ID card project is absolutely farcical. What is the point of spending billions of pounds on cards that can't be read in the UK?"

Cambridge University security expert Richard Clayton told silicon.com: "If this capability is not there then the biometrics are, in short, a waste of time."

(this article continues to two pages)

Here's a card. It allows us to know exactly who you are, where you come from, and everything about you. Here's the problem - we can't read it yet, but you just hold onto it now, y'hear?

Pointless. Wouldn't be important that *someone* could read it before you started rolling it out? Maybe not every police station in England, but at least airport security, customs, that sort of thing?

...

UK government IT scheme doesn't work, what a surprise.

Of course you have to wonder how this data is stored. RFID chips? If so, then we have this (http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/02/video-hacker-war-drives-san-francisco-cloning-rfid-passports/) to worry about.

Looking as useful and cost-effective as they ever were...

Pointless. Wouldn't be important that *someone* could read it before you started rolling it out? Maybe not every police station in England, but at least airport security, customs, that sort of thing?

Or, alternatively, the mechanisms are all in place, and up and running, but they don't want to admit to it, right yet.

ID Cards = Epic Fail

I hope someone has enough sense to be embarrassed by this. :tongue:

Or, alternatively, the mechanisms are all in place, and up and running, but they don't want to admit to it, right yet.

A valid possibility.

I hope someone has enough sense to be embarrassed by this. :tongue:

In the UK?

The enitre concept is pretty pointless.

In the UK?

Good point.

I hope someone has enough sense to be embarrassed by this. :tongue:

It's a government agency.

The enitre concept is pretty pointless.

Unless you want to track people.

Unless you want to track people.

...erxcept they have no way of tracking people. Sure, they could announce "ATTENTION ALL RFID RECIPIENTS: You are encouraged to dress up as and act like D. P Gumby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbys)!", but few would actually do that.

...erxcept they have no way of tracking people. Sure, they could announce "ATTENTION ALL RFID RECIPIENTS: You are encouraged to dress up as and act like D. P Gumby (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gumbys)!", but few would actually do that.

If these cards do have Radio Frequency IDentification chips in them, then yes, they would be able to tell the person's position. I don't know from how far away, but it is a start.

We have ID cards in HK and I love them, no cues at the airport, I simply place my finger on a scanner, it serves as a one-stop, slip-in-the-wallet ID for everything and I far prefer it to a passport.

If these cards do have Radio Frequency IDentification chips in them, then yes, they would be able to tell the person's position. I don't know from how far away, but it is a start.

About 5 to 15 metres, assuming there are no Faraday cages or similar. It can be wiped out rather simply by microwaving the card, or neutralised by lining your wallet with steel mesh. As a final method, a very carefully punched hole should do it - I doubt there's any sort of redundancy on the chips in these things.

Edit: My range numbers were out.

um in a totally unrelated question would a Faraday cage protect against emp?

um in a totally unrelated question would a Faraday cage protect against emp?

Well, define EMP. But broadly speaking, a well designed and appropriately constructed Faraday cage or similar shielding will help cancel the potential effects of an EMP.

Looks like the US Government has some competition in the field of pointlessness. The UK will have to work harder to beat America's Bridge to Nowhere and countless studies into whether aircraft noise affects horses. The results of that last one came to an unquestionable, irrefuteable conclusion of "maybe".

Well, define EMP. But broadly speaking, a well designed and appropriately constructed Faraday cage or similar shielding will help cancel the potential effects of an EMP.
Some sort of electromagnetic pulse potentially nuke fueled. (obviously wouldn't protect against RAD that sorta thing but I was wondering if electronic devices inside a faraday cage would survive that sort of assault)

Some sort of electromagnetic pulse potentially nuke fueled. (obviously wouldn't protect against RAD that sorta thing but I was wondering if electronic devices inside a faraday cage would survive that sort of assault)

Yes, if your faraday cage is appropriately constructed and the devices are appropriately 'hardened', you can mitigate most of the effects.

It has always been obvious this is just a way for the IT industry to fleece the hell out of the British government.

Too bad about that whole civil rights thing.

So the pointless waste of money turns out to be....well...a pointless waste of money. I think this is my favourite bit:

"We have always said that we would roll out the scheme incrementally. The card will not be as useful as it could be until we have got the volumes out there,"

So they're not going to even start producing readers properly until there's already a huge backlog of work resulting in the non existence of all of the supposed "benefits" of the system.

or possibly;

"The manufacturers of the machines have also got to decide whether it is worth their while to produce them,"

Hmm, well both the conservatives and liberal democrats have said that they will cancel the scheme and all attached contracts if they win the next election. As either a conservative victory or a hung parliament looks pretty likely exactly what incentive will companies have to produce readers which will have no purpose by the time they've been built.

So correct me if I'm wrong here but what you are saying is that it is a waste of time for these cards because nobody has yet installed the equipment needed to read the data on them?

That does not mean that the equipment does not exist, but that nobody as of yet has installed it. Meh I don't see the problem.

Now of course don't get me started on the concept of ID cards, but really, what the OP says, well it's just the old story of waiting for people to start using existing technology innit!

Like the first person that went out and purcahesed a CD walkman whilst everybody else was using tape.

Like the first person that went out and purcahesed a CD walkman whilst everybody else was using tape.

Nah, it's more like buying a bunch of CDs before you have a cd player.

So correct me if I'm wrong here but what you are saying is that it is a waste of time for these cards because nobody has yet installed the equipment needed to read the data on them?

That does not mean that the equipment does not exist, but that nobody as of yet has installed it. Meh I don't see the problem.

Now of course don't get me started on the concept of ID cards, but really, what the OP says, well it's just the old story of waiting for people to start using existing technology innit!

Like the first person that went out and purcahesed a CD walkman whilst everybody else was using tape.

It's more like issuing airplane tickets before the specific aircraft was even built. It's like being issued the car key before the car even makes it to the dealership. Kinda pointless at the moment.

It's more like issuing airplane tickets before the specific aircraft was even built. It's like being issued the car key before the car even makes it to the dealership. Kinda pointless at the moment.

No not at all. Did you read my post at all?

The equipment to read these cards exist, nobody has yet had it installed.