NationStates Jolt Archive

Regarding Cuba and USA… Fidel Castro has been in power for years, and everyone in Cuba seems to be waiting for him to die. I am smart enough to understand that his little brother Raul Castro is not really in power; his older brother is still pulling the strings. My question is what would happen if after he does die Cuba continues being a communist country? Would United States still keep the embargo in place or accept Cuba as a communist country the way they have accepted China? For those of you that don’t know, Cuba is an island with 11 million people, maybe two or three times bigger than Puerto Rico, that is all. The armed forces are a joke compared to the rest of the world military when it comes to technology. The economical situation has put Cuba worst than the way Russia was. The embargo USA put in place made it so that most countries can’t do commerce with Cuba. Yet this tiny island has been called the greatest threat to United States on several occasions. Is Cuba really a great threat, greater oh let’s say than China? Does it really look good to put an embargo in place for such a country, Cuba, and not do the same with other countries that are really a threat like China? So my biggest question is, what do you guys think? Fidel Castro has a lot of faults, in a lot of things, but if the embargo was not in place would Cuba be in the situation it is today socially, economically? It was not this bad when it had Russia support, but even that is gone. Fidel Castro will not change his view, and things will continue this way until he dies, and USA will not like him ever, and keep Cuba blockaded because of him, but what about when he does die?

I hate politics, which is why I would always call myself an Independent anywhere I am, if I had to call myself something. There hasn’t been a government I can trust, but I come from Cuba; I guess that is the reason why.

The whole thing begun because of the missiles that Russia decided to park in Cuba. What about the communist nations that have nuclear weapons right now? I don’t see anyone putting embargo in place for them. I was unlucky enough to live during both periods in Cuba, before the Soviet Union and after and it wasn’t that bad before Russia turned. The reason I keep mentioning it is because the embargo is really hurting the people more than Castro. The man is about to die for crying out loud, and he lived a full life at that. In my opinion without an embargo in place Cuba would be prospering, not declining in morals and economically. It hurts me to see my people like this, all because two parties, Castro and the USA. The question stands, would it be right once he dies to continue the embargo?

In the end, Castro won. He never really got hurt, and the people of Cuba lost. The United States will probably call it a victory. Let me say it again, I hate politics! The day I stop seeing “Made in China” in everything pretty much in my house, that’s the day I will agree with the Embargo.

Raul is already in charge.

The only reason there's still an embargo is because Florida has been a swing state for a long time and apparently a lot of Cuban-American voters are swayed by the candidate that agrees to punish their relatives the most. Makes perfect sense.

Of course, you could realistically just go through another country to get to Cuba...these days, does anybody think the EU nations or China or any other of the major economies are going to be pushed around by the US on the matter? They've now got the economic and financial power to tell our government to fuck off when it comes to matters like this.

Technically he is, but I believe that once Fidel is confirmed dead.

I could have sworn they had a change over of power.

I could have sworn they had a change over of power.

I believe the Americans call it damage control. How many times Castro looked physically weak on world news? How many times he trip and fell? The thing is the man might be physically weak but his ideas are still dangerous.

Since every country except for the US can invest in and trade with Cuba, and many do, how would lifting the embargo really change things for Cubans? This isn't an argument in favor of the embargo, obviously, but I'm not convinced that conditions in Cuba would improve. If it's a question of remittances (a la Mexico,) Aren't Cubans allowed to send money to their relatives currently?

Since every country except for the US can invest in and trade with Cuba, and many do, how would lifting the embargo really change things for Cubans? This isn't an argument in favor of the embargo, obviously, but I'm not convinced that conditions in Cuba would improve. If it's a question of remittances (a la Mexico,) Aren't Cubans allowed to send money to their relatives currently?


Now tell me who would like to trade with an insignificant island that has little to offer under the following conditions to name a few?

(The 1963 U.S. embargo was reinforced in October 1992 by the Cuban Democracy Act (the "Torricelli Law") and in 1996 by the Cuban Liberty and Democracy Solidarity Act (known as the Helms-Burton Act) which penalises foreign companies that do business in Cuba by preventing them from doing business in the US. The justification provided for these restrictions was that these companies were trafficking in stolen U.S. properties, and should, thus, be excluded from the United States.

The European Union resents the Helms Burton Act because it felt that the US was dictating how other nations ought to conduct their trade and challenged it on that basis. The EU eventually dropped its challenge in favor of negotiating a solution.[6]

After the shootings of the Brothers to the rescue planes in 1996, a bi-partisan coalition in the United States Congress approved the Helms-Burton Act. The Title III of this law also states that any non-U.S. company that "knowingly trafficks in property in Cuba confiscated without compensation from a U.S. person" can be subjected to litigation and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may also be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This restriction also applies to maritime shipping, as ships docking at Cuban ports are not allowed to dock at U.S. ports for six months. It's important to note that this title includes waiver authority, so that the President might suspend its application. This waiver must be renewed every six months and it has traditionally been. It was renewed for the last time July 17, 2006,[7] therefore the suspension of this provision will remain effective for, at least, another six months following that date.)

Do you honestly think that USA sanctions don't have an effect? My point remains... I would like to see them try to do this to let's say China. Now, I don't care at all about Castro, but what about once he dies?

Meh, People care about Cuba?


I dont care what they do, but I wouldnt mind them opening the way for Cuban Cigars again..

Meh, People care about Cuba?


I dont care what they do, but I wouldnt mind them opening the way for Cuban Cigars again..

I care, since I am originally from there, and probably wouldn't be here if it wasn't for what is going on over there. Everyone loves their original land/country/culture.

I say the US just takes over the island already its not like Russia is going to do much and the money to be made from running Cuba into the ground will keep the E.U and China silent on the matter

I say the US just takes over the island already its not like Russia is going to do much and the money to be made from running Cuba into the ground will keep the E.U and China silent on the matter

Seriously, someone should slap McKinley for not jumpin on that...

I say the US just takes over the island already its not like Russia is going to do much and the money to be made from running Cuba into the ground will keep the E.U and China silent on the matter

They could have ended everything with one shot to the heart, so long ago. Kill Castro, but who wants to make a martyr right? The only way to prevent that is to make the people do it right? Good luck with that… Half the people in Cuba might like Castro and the half that doesn’t like him for sure is too busy surviving the economical crisis. Actually the both halves are busy surviving, but one half blames Castro, the other blames USA. I say they are both guilty. United States for not treating Cuba like China and Castro for being to dam stuborn and power hungry.

They could have ended everything with one shot to the heart, so long ago. Kill Castro, but who wants to make a martyr right?

Didnt we try to do that in the Bay of Pigs fiasco?

Didnt we try to do that in the Bay of Pigs fiasco?

CIA made a number of hilariously stupid attempts to kill him.

CIA made a number of hilariously stupid attempts to kill him.

Yeah, thats what I thought, lol...

I often wonder why we let those guys do shit anyway...They seem to always fuck it up...

Didnt we try to do that in the Bay of Pigs fiasco?

I don't know what happen there, but I do tell you this; Castro had made a speech during that time placing the whole country on red alert and informing the people that an invasion was impending. Hard to take somebody by surprise when they already know they are coming.

CIA made a number of hilariously stupid attempts to kill him.

Is hard to believe this happen, I have heard about this but it is really hard to believe this, besides didn't the third time was the charm? Don't practice makes perfect? :)

The only reason there's still an embargo is because Florida has been a swing state for a long time and apparently a lot of Cuban-American voters are swayed by the candidate that agrees to punish their relatives the most. Makes perfect sense.

Of course, you could realistically just go through another country to get to Cuba...these days, does anybody think the EU nations or China or any other of the major economies are going to be pushed around by the US on the matter? They've now got the economic and financial power to tell our government to fuck off when it comes to matters like this.

Unfortunately that is very true. Every time that there is talk about loosening the trade restrictions with Cuba, the Cuban community in FL goes into overdrive. The biggest problem is the original Cuban exiles that are the power holdovers still in their community. They are still demanding that we maintain this stupid embargo until Fidel leaves.

Too bad that they do not go ahead and lift the embargo, and let free trade take care of the problem.

Trade embargoes do nothing diplomatically. We should trade with Cuba, and democratize them that way. A way that actually works.

Keep in mind that the person responsible for the embargo generally gets hits LAST.

If (for example) a country only has ten computers, El Presidente will have three of them, his family will have three more, his top flunkies will have another three, and the last one was destroyed by an angry citizen who would rather have it totaled than have the crooks in charge take it.

I feel sorry for the angry citizen, as by now they're likely doing geneva-worthy things to him (such as tying him down and forcing him to watch Manos: the Hands of Fate) :(

Is hard to believe this happen, I have heard about this but it is really hard to believe this, besides didn't the third time was the charm? Don't practice makes perfect? :)

It's notoriously hard to kill national leaders sometimes. Especially dictators. Take a look at Adolf Hitler for example. Some +40 attempts to kill him IIRC, both by Germans and Allies. All failed obviously. And in the end, he had the last laugh by killing himself instead.

I believe the Americans call it damage control. How many times Castro looked physically weak on world news? How many times he trip and fell? The thing is the man might be physically weak but his ideas are still dangerous.

My friend, the Cuban dictatorship government that calls itself for life and forever. Trades with Canada, the EU, Brazil and many nations in the world. Buys agricultural products from the USA on a cash basis. Receives Cuban American family remittances. Recieves over 2,000,000 tourists a year mostly Canadians and Europeans.

The embargo failed because after the Soviet Union European empire fell apart the dictatorship traded with Canada the EU and others. Recieved European tourists. Made the USA dollar legal in so called dollar stores provided by Cuban Americans through family remittances to thier families in Cuba. So they could buy many products in these so called dollar stores in a currency they do not earn.

All this constructive engagement has also failed and the Cuban dictatorship will continue to be a dictatorship under Fidel or Raul because they are real dictators.

I am about the only native born Cuban now American citizen on this forum. While their seems to be a few others they mostly keep a low profile. Welcome to Nation States Jolt Co Uk Forums.

Trade embargoes do nothing diplomatically. We should trade with Cuba, and democratize them that way. A way that actually works.

But it will work. The day Castro clutches his chest and falls over dead; our government will declare victory!

But you are right. Embargoes only change the shipping routes.....

Trade embargoes do nothing diplomatically. We should trade with Cuba, and democratize them that way. A way that actually works.

While I agree the embargo has failed because of no international support from those democratic nations like Canada, the EU and others that should have supported it. Constructive engagement has also failed Since the Cuban dictatorship trades with Canada, the EU and others. Buys agricultural products from the USA on a cash basis. Receives Cuba American family remittances, care packages. Recieves over 2 million tourists per year mostly Canadians and Europeans.

And does not wish to democratize itself because it is a real dictatorship that will not change no matter how much constructive engagement it receives from the international community of nations.

I don't care about the politics.
Cuba seized assets of American corporations.
they want to trade with us they need to repay those losses + interest.

i think america's boycotting of cuba, was and is, infantile, as was isenhour's iron curtain and the resulting 'cold war'.

we (u.s.) should be buying sugar from cuba so they could use the exchange to make major upgrades to their rail network, and not hinder people from coming and going between both places (or any places for that matter, as long as they're civilians and not bearing weapons of mass destruction on or about their persons).

there shouldn't even be a guantanimo and america needs to appologise for it ever having been there.

and no i don't think fidel is immortal, and i don't favor procustianism over makiavellianism. i simply absolutely don't favor either one.

batista was, unambiguously a tyrannt though, and castro, warts and all, something of an improvement. though there are certainly things, the whole wearing military fatigues for the rest of his life, i mean what's up with that?

but i also think, well, pretty much believe we can count on, never getting a realistic and impartial picture of anywhere by way of corporate media.

when economic interests run the state, corporate media IS state media. and a again, this is a mater of my NOT favoring either of them.

While I agree the embargo has failed because of no international support from those democratic nations like Canada, the EU and others that should have supported it.

No no. I'm not speaking out of my opinion. This is a fact: trade embargoes do not work. Ever.

Cuba's really nice this time of year. My folks will be heading down to visit friends in a few weeks.

Just trade with them, USA. You know you want to.

And does not wish to democratize itself because it is a real dictatorship that will not change no matter how much constructive engagement it receives from the international community of nations.

And what, exactly, are we supposed to do about it? Force them to accept US style democracy? I've had quite enough of that, thank you.

The only reason there's still an embargo is because Florida has been a swing state for a long time and apparently a lot of Cuban-American voters are swayed by the candidate that agrees to punish their relatives the most. Makes perfect sense...

Actually, a mjority of Cuban Americans in Florida support ending (http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4B273S20081203?virtualBrandChannel=10112) the embargo.

Since every country except for the US can invest in and trade with Cuba, and many do, how would lifting the embargo really change things for Cubans? This isn't an argument in favor of the embargo, obviously, but I'm not convinced that conditions in Cuba would improve. If it's a question of remittances (a la Mexico,) Aren't Cubans allowed to send money to their relatives currently?

Obama has promised to increase the amount of remittances allowed to the same levels they were before Bush Jr.

The embargo makes it illegal for any corporation that does business with Cuba to also do business in the USA. So, the corporations have to choose between a tiny market like Cuba and a huge market like the USA.

...
Is hard to believe this happen, I have heard about this but it is really hard to believe this, besides didn't the third time was the charm? Don't practice makes perfect? :)

638 (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2006/aug/03/cuba.duncancampbell2). That's the number of attempts according to one source.

I don't care about the politics.
Cuba seized assets of American corporations.
they want to trade with us they need to repay those losses + interest.

They offered to. The US ambassador at the time refused the offer.

I think Vetalia was being sarcastic, Gift of god ;)

Now tell me who would like to trade with an insignificant island that has little to offer under the following conditions to name a few?....

Yeah, I'm familiar with Helms-Burton. I've never heard of it being enforced. Both Clinton and Bush signed waivers. (Also, if you copy text from Wikipedia you should cite or link.)

Cuba has a lot to offer. It's got a highly educated population, lots of ports, a great location, great climate, and some sort of enormous metal reserve -- cobalt? coltan? something like that. Plus oil (probably.) Great place to build an assembly plant or run a mine or grow sugarcane. Cuba theoretically has a lot more to offer than, say, Singapore. I agree that cutting off US markets has some detrimental effect on the Cuban economy but Cuba's antiquated policies of controlling its economy and stifling foreign investment have a lot more to do with the lousiness of Cuba's GDP.

I still think the embargo should be lifted, I just don't think it would make much of a difference to the Cuban economy. You'd see an increase in remittances, maybe, and definitely in tourism, but I don't think that extra cash would filter down to ordinary Cubans.

I don't care about the politics.
Cuba seized assets of American corporations.
they want to trade with us they need to repay those losses + interest.
that ship has sailed.

no assets will be returned.

and those cuban exiles who live on the dream that they will have their estates and other assets returned to them will die unrequited.