NationStates Jolt Archive

... Saint Barabara (http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=166) comes from the pagan tradition? (much like Saint Brigid of Kildare)

I'm looking in saint dictionaries and iconography ones, even Wiki, and I can't seem to get the information straight. According to the Catholic and Orthodox traditions, Saint Barbara lived either on the 3rd or 4th. centuries and was a martyr for the faith. But some religious historians allege that she is merely a legend. That she didn't really existed (and I'm sure many saints' lives are on the same boat). Does anyone here know?

During the early days of Christianity, so much was merged with other religions and pagan beliefs, it's enough to make anyone's head hurt. I doubt you'll find out for sure.

... Saint Barabara (http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=166) comes from the pagan tradition?

Saint Barabara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabara)? Is that an Aleutian church? :p

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Barbara

Saint Barbara, known in the Eastern Orthodox Church as the Great Martyr Barbara (3rd century - December 4, 306), was a Christian saint and martyr. Although there is no reference to her in the authentic early Christian writings, nor in the original recension of Saint Jerome's martyrology, veneration of her was common from the seventh century. Because of doubts about the historicity of her legend,[1] she was removed from the official Catholic calendar in 1969. However, she continues to be a popular saint in modern times, perhaps best known as the patron saint of artillerymen, military engineers, miners and others who work with explosives because of her legend's association with lightning. Many of the thirteen miracles in a 15th-century French version turn on the security that her devotees would not die without making confession and receiving extreme unction.[2]

She has great story on how she became a saint. It doesn't appear that she is based on a pagan story although her Dad was a pagan.

Saint Barabara (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barabara)? Is that an Aleutian church? :p

Typo. Sowwy.:tongue:

Why does the United States Field Artillery have a patron saint?

Why does the United States Field Artillery have a patron saint?

Because for centuries, Saint Barbara, since her father was struck and killed by lightning when he tried to kill her, has been considered the patron saint of artillery garrisons.

I prefer St Michael, patron saint of paratroopers

I prefer St Michael, patron saint of paratroopers

But this isn't about St. Michael.

I love how Nanatsu mentioned in her OP that she has checked sources, including Wiki, but explains she wants better depth of information...

and somebody posts a wiki link, and quotes from it as if they're helping.

I love how Nanatsu mentioned in her OP that she has checked sources, including Wiki, but explains she wants better depth of information...

and somebody posts a wiki link, and quotes from it as if they're helping.

People don't ever read the OP, only the first sentence. You would know this if you became familiar with your own works.

People don't ever read the OP, only the first sentence. You would know this if you became familiar with your own works.

Damn people...it wasn't even that long, her OP was concise, got to the point, showed she'd done her homework.

And somebody else still has to go "Gee! I'll post a wiki-link! I'm helping!"

Nanatsu is a sweet lass, and wouldn't want me to be so grumpy about it. I'll stop.

(mutters)

Hey, I stopped reading at the second word, and immediately jumped on the oppurtunity to mercilessly finish her off about the sowwyful typo! :p

Typo. Sowwy.:tongue:
Maybe it was just in Euskera dialecto?

Maybe it was just in Euskera dialecto?

Don't say that in Euzkadi, you'll get the ETA after you. :eek: :tongue:

Don't say that in Euzkadi, you'll get the ETA after you. :eek: :tongue:

Euskal Herriá. Euskadi is the gentilicium. If you're to use the original name of a Spanish province, do it with propriety.

Euskal Herriá. Euskadi is the gentilicium. If you're to use the original name of a Spanish province, do it with propriety.

You should marry Javier Bardem, and wander the Earth talking to people, so that Spanish Tourism will thrive.

Maybe it was just in Euskera dialecto?

Zeure ezjakintasun eta beste hots ezin sinetsizko.:rolleyes:

You should marry Javier Bardem, and wander the Earth talking to people, so that Spanish Tourism will thrive.

No marriage, please. The rest of what you suggest I do like.:wink:

No marriage, please. The rest of what you suggest I do like.:wink:

You know, Jhahannam attempted to join the French Foreign Legion because he heard you were getting married.

So, right now, he's either homeless and begging for food in Aubagne, or he's in Djibouti with a jammed FAMAS rifle, dodging Kalashnikov fire from a dozen African 8 year olds who have outflanked him by virtue of numbers and superior strategic intellect.

You know, Jhahannam attempted to join the French Foreign Legion because he heard you were getting married.

So, right now, he's either homeless and begging for food in Aubagne, or he's in Djibouti with a jammed FAMAS rifle, dodging Kalashnikov fire from a dozen African 8 year olds who have outflanked him by virtue of numbers and superior strategic intellect.

If you see him, tell him he heard wrong. Marriage scares me sh*tless!

You know, Jhahannam attempted to join the French Foreign Legion because he heard you were getting married.

So, right now, he's either homeless and begging for food in Aubagne, or he's in Djibouti with a jammed FAMAS rifle, dodging Kalashnikov fire from a dozen African 8 year olds who have outflanked him by virtue of numbers and superior strategic intellect.

I like the name Djibouti. It's fun to say.

I like the name Djibouti. It's fun to say.

Ains, les míos güellos. Les xavales quien falar do Djibouti e io queru falar de Santa Bárbara.:(

If you see him, tell him he heard wrong. Marriage scares me sh*tless!

I'm afraid to tell him that his reason for leaving his old life was due to a miscommunication.

Somehow, it won't sweeten the taste of the half-eaten crepe with rotten blueberries that he's eating out of a dumpster in an alley in southern France, or if he's in the Legion, it won't clear the FTE 5.56 brass casing out of his weapon in time to stop a squad of African pre-adolescents from playing Fat American Machete Jenga.

I'm afraid to tell him that his reason for leaving his old life was due to a miscommunication.

Somehow, it won't sweeten the taste of the half-eaten crepe with rotten blueberries that he's eating out of a dumpster in an alley in southern France, or if he's in the Legion, it won't clear the FTE 5.56 brass casing out of his weapon in time to stop a squad of African pre-adolescents from playing Fat American Machete Jenga.

Contále, compadre, muy baixu, qui io le queru cantar unes canciús d'amor n'es orellas perqui él y'el mi niñu mimadu. Contále qui le diré estes cosines con cariñu, pa' qui regrese al mío llau. Contále qui le falu n'Asturianu, la mia llingüa. Le cundirá munxu.:wink:

Ains, les míos güellos. Les xavales quien falar do Djibouti e io queru falar de Santa Bárbara.:(Why do you keep bringing up the British economy?

Ains, les míos güellos. Les xavales quien falar do Djibouti e io queru falar de Santa Bárbara.:(

I don't know what this means, but the suppression of her cultus by the Church may indicate that even those theologians with a vested interest in preserving her as an authentic Saint may have found that:

"While there were undoubtedly beautiful converts named Barbara, this saint is legend, and her cultus developed when pious fiction was mistaken for history."
-Saints.sqpn.com

Her role as a "born into a pagan family but through intellectual development embracing Christianity" would be consistent with a figure of pagan origins preceding revision that renders the idea of conversion as a natural process of the enlightened.

I'll ask around tomorrow, though.

I don't know what this means, but the suppression of her cultus by the Church may indicate that even those theologians with a vested interest in preserving her as an authentic Saint may have found that:

"While there were undoubtedly beautiful converts named Barbara, this saint is legend, and her cultus developed when pious fiction was mistaken for history."
-Saints.sqpn.com

Her role as a "born into a pagan family but through intellectual development embracing Christianity" would be consistent with a figure of pagan origins preceding revision that renders the idea of conversion as a natural process of the enlightened.

I'll ask around tomorrow, though.

I'll translate for you one of these days.

Thanks for your take on the OP.

Why do you keep bringing up the British economy?

Zeure ezjakintasun eta beste hots ezin sinetsizko.

Ains, les míos güellos. Les xavales quien falar do Djibouti e io queru falar de Santa Bárbara.:(
Let's see if my Spanish has improved:
Oy, my guerillas. The cavalry wants to fail in Djibouti, and I want to fail in Santa Barbara, California.

Let's see if my Spanish has improved:
Oy, my guerillas. The cavalry wants to fail in Djibouti, and I want to fail in Santa Barbara, California.

Your Spanish is basically non-existent. Besides that, my post wasn't in Spanish, but my native dialect, Asturian. Try again.

Asturian is merely a dialect of Spanish. Didn't we spend forever establishing that?

Yes yes, I know you're saying "those (horses' asses, or whatever) want to talk about Djibouti when I'm wanting to talk about St. Barbara".

Asturian is merely a dialect of Spanish. Didn't we spend forever establishing that?

Yes yes, I know you're saying "those (horses' asses, or whatever) want to talk about Djibouti when I'm wanting to talk about St. Barbara".

We already lost enought time establishing a concept it's obvious that it's completely different in our native tongues.

You did fail, again, to understand what I posted in Asturian. Try one more time, because "güellos" isn't guerrillas and "xavales" isn't horses' asses.

You did fail, again, to understand what I posted in Asturian.
That's because I don't know it. I'm just screwing with you, and the fact that you think I am making a serious effort at translation is amusing.
Try one more time, because "güellos" isn't guerrillas
I didn't think it was. If it's important for you to let me know what the word does mean, I'm sure you will.
and "xavales" isn't horses' asses.
No, but I gather from the context that it is something uncomplimentary.

That's because I don't know it. I'm just screwing with you, and the fact that you think I am making a serious effort at translation is amusing.

I'm not presuming to know what's behind your words.

I didn't think it was. If it's important for you to let me know what the word does mean, I'm sure you will.

It's not important that you know.

No, but I gather from the context that it is something uncomplimentary.

Wrong, it's not uncomplimentary at all. "Xavales" means "guys".

During the early days of Christianity, so much was merged with other religions and pagan beliefs, it's enough to make anyone's head hurt. I doubt you'll find out for sure.

Hardly. Such "pagan" elements as entered Christian doctrine did so no earlier than 325 AD, and, frankly, Paul did a rather good job of ossifying dostrine prior to that.

Hardly. Such "pagan" elements as entered Christian doctrine did so no earlier than 325 AD, and, frankly, Paul did a rather good job of ossifying dostrine prior to that.

The main problem with St. Barbara's story is that the Catholics cannot, same as the Orthodox, agree on wether the saint lived, if she did, on the 3rd. or 4th. centuries.

The references I keep getting of Barbara state that "her legend" is widely known in Catholicism.

The main problem with St. Barbara's story is that the Catholics cannot, same as the Orthodox, agree on wether the saint lived, if she did, on the 3rd. or 4th. centuries.

The references I keep getting of Barbara state that "her legend" is widely known in Catholicism.

Why did the Catholics "suppress her cultus", and evidently somehow alter status in the gathering of Saints?

She sounded kind of cool to me...

Why did the Catholics "suppress her cultus", and evidently somehow alter status in the gathering of Saints?

She sounded kind of cool to me...

She does sounds cool. BUt I guess the suppression has to do with the Church not being able to establish wether she existed or not. Besides that, Santería uses her to hide Changó, one of this religion's deities.

She does sounds cool. BUt I guess the suppression has to do with the Church not being able to establish wether she existed or not. Besides that, Santería uses her to hide Changó, one of this religion's deities.

That makes sense.

But, one question...

Why do you keep bring up Matthew the Apostle and Saint George?

That makes sense.

But, one question...

Why do you keep bring up Matthew the Apostle and Saint George?

Because it keeps you coming back for more.:wink:

Because it keeps you coming back for more.:wink:

Like the waves must plead their love to the shore at every tide, like the orchids bloom perennial, like our very flesh is called back to the earth,

...we must all return in love to Nanatsu no Tsuki.

Like the waves must plead their love to the shore at every tide, like the orchids bloom perennial, like our very flesh is called back to the earth,

...we must all return in love to Nanatsu no Tsuki.

I swear I could reach the peeks of pleasure and sing to the angels just by reading those words time and time again.

I swear I could reach the peeks of pleasure and sing to the angels just by reading those words time and time again.

I've actually written quite a bit of poetry on the subject of the Goddess of the Seven Moons.

You can see it here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom)

I've actually written quite a bit of poetry on the subject of the Goddess of the Seven Moons.

You can see it here. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_Kingdom)

If your very existence didn't complete mine, I would've sent my minions to assassinate thee a long time ago.:fluffle:

If your very existence didn't complete mine, I would've sent my minions to assassinate thee a long time ago.:fluffle:

My Empress Nanatsu no Tsuki need send no retainer to assure my end. She needs only command it, by the merest gesture, and I will gladly take my own life.

That, or you can just take credit for my impending suicide and claim it was your minions.

My Empress Nanatsu no Tsuki need send no retainer to assure my end. She needs only command it, by the merest gesture, and I will gladly take my own life.

That, or you can just take credit for my impending suicide and claim it was your minions.

And live in a world, suspended in time, enshrined in eternity without having the certainty you continue on, somewhere? That despite us being apart, you persevere through time? I cannot conceive a world without my beloved Ghost of Ayn Rand. I would rather fade away from memory than not posses you.