NationStates Jolt Archive

I just had a thought while thinking about broken engagement and broken marriages that end in divorce. Do engagements and marriages, the rings, the ceremony, the whole thing really mean anything anymore? I mean 50% of marriages today end in divorces, and I can't imagine how many engagements get broken off. I dunno, usually when you get engaged or married, you're saying that you want to spend the rest of your life with that person, through better or worse. Now I can understand if one party is an abusive, neglectful asshole or bitch, or whatever, but at the same time it just seems like engagements and marriages are not taken as seriously as they used to be.

Thoughts.

Also, fair warning, if we have another thread derailed because Neo wants to arrange another threesome or anyone else, it will be reported as SPAM. It was cute once or twice, but now it's just old.

Also, fair warning, if we have another thread derailed because Neo wants to arrange another threesome or anyone else, it will be reported as SPAM. It was cute once or twice, but now it's just old.

Then I will refrain from posting because I will inevitably resort to somethign humorous and take the whole thread of topic. Have a nice day all.

But what if I ask for threesomes or something?

Nah but seriously, problem is, in my opinion, people are becoming less and less satisfied with remaining with a single person for an extended period of time. Perhaps its evolution to a degree? Or maybe we've always been this way, but until now it hasn't been accepted. I really do not know, but whatever the reason, it seems that we're more and more becoming a society which values monogomy for a period of time, and then shifting to another mate.

People are putting less thought into who they marry these days, I think, I mean probably not, but that's my opinion that's not really based in evidence. There's not as much security for men now, you know, they can't just treat their wives shitty and lean on years of tradition to make sure that dinner is on the table when they get home. Go feminism!

I can't say I was around back in the day, whenever it was nor do I have statistics to prove my opinion, but all the people I see getting married and then divorced within 2 years around me are getting married for some fucked up reasons.

Do engagements and marriages, the rings, the ceremony, the whole thing really mean anything anymore?


One would think that they mean only what the parties involved wish them to mean. I'm unsure why I, or anyone else for that matter, should view our engagements/marriages in a way you wish us to.

Are divorces more common now? Yes, certainly, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

It doesn't mean anything any more because they gave it to teh gheyz

It doesn't mean anything any more because they gave it to teh gheyz

Nah, it's been broke since they gave it to the blacks.

Nah, it's been broke since they gave it to the blacks.

No it was alright with the blacks its when we started letting the dirty black men marry our pure white women.

One would think that they mean only what the parties involved wish them to mean. I'm unsure why I, or anyone else for that matter, should view our engagements/marriages in a way you wish us to.

Are divorces more common now? Yes, certainly, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Hmm that is true, but you do have to take in social conditioning and what society thinks engagements and marriages should mean.

Nah, it's been broke since they gave it to the blacks.

Like they needed it, they have the whole broom jumping thing, they should've been happy with that! :p

No it was alright with the blacks its when we started letting the dirty black men marry our pure white women.

I think the problem was vice versa. It's all the black woman's fault, you know they think they have rights and such? Like if her white man abuses her she'll just leave him.

Hmm that is true, but you do have to take in social conditioning and what society thinks engagements and marriages should mean.

Why should I care what other people think marriages mean when it comes to my own?

Why should I care what other people think marriages mean when it comes to my own?

I was talking in general, and because people are idiots and they're sheep. They want to be accepted by at least their friends.

I think the problem was vice versa. It's all the black woman's fault, you know they think they have rights and such? Like if her white man abuses her she'll just leave him.

And this is how the divorce rate rose, letting people leave their marriages.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/think_of_the_children.jpg

I was talking in general, and because people are idiots and they're sheep. They want to be accepted by at least their friends.

your argument runs counter to your thesis.

your argument runs counter to your thesis.

Yea it does that.

And this is how the divorce rate rose, letting people leave their marriages.


This pretty much sums up the answer, I think. The quality of marriage hasn't gotten worse, it's just that now people can leave marriages that aren't good for one reason or another.

70% of first marriages succeed. It is only after the precedent of divorce has been established as a viable option that the divorce rate skyrockets.

I have noticed in the people around me that the "for better or worse" actually tends to mean "for better, or I'm leaving".' I don't agree with abuse, or other such terrible conduct, and I do think that there are some valid reasons for divorce, however there is no commitment in marriage anymroe. It seems like a big fight or two is all it takes for people to realize that commitment, and sticking together mutually just isn't for them.

Part of this, I would blame on a society that pushes self-indulgence, if spouses can't make us happy 100% of the time, then we need to trim the fat, and replace them with something else that will make us happy.

Part of it is the idea that divorce as an institution is ok, and that means people don't need to try to get along, or stay together, because its no big deal at all, which I feel misrepresents what marriage is in general.

I love my wife, do we fight? Yep, do we forgive, and get past it? Yep. I can think of no problem bigger than the two of us, and both of us are committed, and both of us compromise, and both of us are extremely happy. I can be a real jerk sometimes, and she is right there, committed to me, and to us and to forgiving me, and the reverse is true on her bad days, when she is a jerk, they happen, we're both people, our moods sometimes get the best of us.

What I find ironic, and discomforting is that I've known people who are in an unmarried relationship for several years, get married, and then divorce shortly thereafter. Which I find indicitive of a committment-phobic culture that I can't imagine being good for society, marriage shouldn't be thought of as 'restricting' or being 'tied-down' but as an expression, and committment of a relationship.

Thats my two cents, I figure if two (or more? -when the US finally legalizes marriage-) people aren't willing to make a real committment, then why get married? So many couples move in, or act in ways that used to only be marital, why don't they stay that way? Marriage should be for the committed, and I would discourage marriage in general as a trade-off to high divorce rates (plus divorces are big messes).

People think they can change each other when they get married. Thats probably the kye problem from the start.

I just had a thought while thinking about broken engagement and broken marriages that end in divorce. Do engagements and marriages, the rings, the ceremony, the whole thing really mean anything anymore? I mean 50% of marriages today end in divorces, and I can't imagine how many engagements get broken off. I dunno, usually when you get engaged or married, you're saying that you want to spend the rest of your life with that person, through better or worse. Now I can understand if one party is an abusive, neglectful asshole or bitch, or whatever, but at the same time it just seems like engagements and marriages are not taken as seriously as they used to be.

Thoughts.

Also, fair warning, if we have another thread derailed because Neo wants to arrange another threesome or anyone else, it will be reported as SPAM. It was cute once or twice, but now it's just old.

People promise a lot of things that they can't see through.
Also, there's still quite some pressure on a great part of the population to get married eventually.

But people make mistakes.
Before, mistakes like that would ruin their lives. Now, they get a chance to correct those mistakes.

What I find ironic, and discomforting is that I've known people who are in an unmarried relationship for several years, get married, and then divorce shortly thereafter. Which I find indicitive of a committment-phobic culture that I can't imagine being good for society, marriage shouldn't be thought of as 'restricting' or being 'tied-down' but as an expression, and committment of a relationship.


My mom once put it this way:

A relationship is like being in a warm, cozy room, with a fire going, while there's a storm and ice outside. The telly is good, there are books, everything you could ever need is right there. You're happy, you are comfortable, you could stay there forever.

And marriage is sombody locking the door to that room with you inside and hiding away the key.

People can get claustrophobic about that, and I don't blame them.

Alright, since I've had both a broken engagement and a successful marriage (not with the same person!), I think I have a little bit of insight here.

The broken engagement was for the wrong reasons. I was living in the USA at the time (relevant - see later), young (early 20s), I'd just left university, and most of my friends were getting engaged to the person they'd been dating when they left university. That just seemed to be the thing you did - leave university and get engaged. So it's what I did too. In retrospect, we were far too different to make a long-term relationship last - our politics were almost polar opposites - and it wasn't helped by our living on opposite sides of the Atlantic for most of the period we were engaged, but we did it because everyone else was doing it too. We were lemmings - but I never really felt comfortable.


More than 10 years later, at that point living in Australia (after several years back in my native UK), I met my now-wife. We're not identical, but we vote for the same political parties, have compatible belief systems, enjoy many similar interests (food and booze - yay), and both think the other's dead sexy. We knew each other for nearly 2 years before getting engaged, and by then knew we were right for each other. We did things at our own pace, and always felt comfortable with each other.


Oddly enough, at one point all of my American friends were married, and none of my British or Australian friends were married. My American friends started getting divorced at about the same time that my British and Australian friends started getting married. I'm not sure whether that says anything profound about the United States compared to the UK and Australia, or whether it means the graduate students and academics I socialise with these days are a completely demographic from the friends I had/have in the USA. Or maybe both.

People get divorced more now than in decades past because a) they live longer, b) women are more able to provide for themselves, and c) many jurisdictions have adopted no-fault divorce laws.

Cultural changes factor in as well, but those are the big 3.

I've been dating the same person for the last 7 years, and we're not married or engaged. My relationship is thus viewed as "less than" the relationships of married people.

In the time my partner and I have been together, two of my friends have been married and later divorced.

I've been engaged twice. The first engagement almost ended in marriage, I'm glad I decided to stop that. The second engagement is still floating around. My main problem is that I am absolutely terrified of marriage.

The very thought of that makes me shake with terror because I saw how much my mother suffered when she was married to my father. I just don't want to go through that. I know my mother's experience doesn't necessary mean I will have the same problem, but I saw her go through so much.

Perhaps in time I would say "frick it!" and do take the plunge, but so far I have utterly refused to say yes to any marriage proposals. I don't think that for one to be happy, one needs to be married.

Para beber leche no hay que comprar la vaca. -or so my grandmother says.

I've been engaged twice. The first engagement almost ended in marriage, I'm glad I decided to stop that. The second engagement is still floating around. My main problem is that I am absolutely terrified of marriage.

Define "floating around".

Define "floating around".

Floating around means that it's jack squat. Nothing happened nor will happen. Finito, finis, ended, over, acabó.

The ring lays on a drawer, laughing at me.

Define "floating around".

She got shipwrecked five month ago with nothing more than a inflatable duck and a solar-powered laptop. Tragic story.

She got shipwrecked five month ago with nothing more than a inflatable duck and a solar-powered laptop. Tragic story.

And true.:(

She got shipwrecked five month ago with nothing more than a inflatable duck and a solar-powered laptop. Tragic story.

I want an inflatable duck and a solar powered laptop...

I just had a thought while thinking about broken engagement and broken marriages that end in divorce. Do engagements and marriages, the rings, the ceremony, the whole thing really mean anything anymore? I mean 50% of marriages today end in divorces, and I can't imagine how many engagements get broken off. I dunno, usually when you get engaged or married, you're saying that you want to spend the rest of your life with that person, through better or worse. Now I can understand if one party is an abusive, neglectful asshole or bitch, or whatever, but at the same time it just seems like engagements and marriages are not taken as seriously as they used to be.

Thoughts.

Also, fair warning, if we have another thread derailed because Neo wants to arrange another threesome or anyone else, it will be reported as SPAM. It was cute once or twice, but now it's just old.


Yes of course they do. People change, all people change, it is possible to fall out of love certianly but that does not dismiss the fact that once you where in love.

If the giving of a ring, or the taking of vows are meaningless then you would expect them not to happen.

I want an inflatable duck and a solar powered laptop...

Well I have the first one... but no solar powered laptop.

As for marriage, well I've considered it but I haven't gone down that road yet. I am in a happy committed realtionship, I wouldn't want to ruin it by popping the question... I think I'm more inclined to live in sin for 20 or 30 years and pop the question after some ridiculous fight as a way of defusing the situation.

I want an inflatable duck and a solar powered laptop...

You're a big boy. Ducks aren't for you!

You're a big boy. Ducks aren't for you!

Awww....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2367/2274650802_cb60f6bd92.jpg?v=0

Awww....

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2367/2274650802_cb60f6bd92.jpg?v=0

That made me laugh.:D

I believe that many people run into marriages without thinking hard enough on the concept. I don't think marriage today is (For most people) what it was 50 years ago. I don't know that it has any more to do with feminism than it has to do with just a societal acceptance of divorce. People also use engagement as a way to "patch" things up commonly. I think the same thing happens with children sometimes...

People used to think divorce was the worst thing that could happen to them. It was believed to be embarrassing and unsightly. I can't stand the thought of divorcing someone, and it is the reason I am probably not engaged already. I want to make sure the person I marry is going to be me for the rest of their life, or at least mine...

I'm open to the concept of perhaps getting married someday but its not something that I feel I actually need in my life. Besides, I can't even get a good date these days.

I just had a thought while thinking about broken engagement and broken marriages that end in divorce. Do engagements and marriages, the rings, the ceremony, the whole thing really mean anything anymore? I mean 50% of marriages today end in divorces, and I can't imagine how many engagements get broken off. I dunno, usually when you get engaged or married, you're saying that you want to spend the rest of your life with that person, through better or worse. Now I can understand if one party is an abusive, neglectful asshole or bitch, or whatever, but at the same time it just seems like engagements and marriages are not taken as seriously as they used to be.

Thoughts.

Also, fair warning, if we have another thread derailed because Neo wants to arrange another threesome or anyone else, it will be reported as SPAM. It was cute once or twice, but now it's just old.

Does that mean if it's someone other than Neo, it's ok?

Seriously, though, I've been married. I took it very seriously. I also took it seriously when he started being verbally abusive and neglecting important things like clothes and medical care for me and the kids.

I was being a traditional stay-at-home mom - home cooked meals every night, even to the point of home-made bread at least once a week. I figured he'd take his responsibilities as seriously as I did.

I have to say that, starting with my generation (the '60s generation), the idea of marriage as permanent was pretty much shot. People from that point on are just not grown up enough, in general, to support it.

I can't say that it's on it's way out, though. There are enough people who think it's a good thing, at least temporarily.

I don't believe in it, though. Getting out of a bad relationship is hard enough without attaching legalities to it.

I believe that many people run into marriages without thinking hard enough on the concept. I don't think marriage today is (For most people) what it was 50 years ago. I don't know that it has any more to do with feminism than it has to do with just a societal acceptance of divorce. People also use engagement as a way to "patch" things up commonly. I think the same thing happens with children sometimes...

People used to think divorce was the worst thing that could happen to them. It was believed to be embarrassing and unsightly. I can't stand the thought of divorcing someone, and it is the reason I am probably not engaged already. I want to make sure the person I marry is going to be me for the rest of their life, or at least mine...

I think marriages today are viewed much more serious than they were 50 years ago.
A girl unmarried by the age of 25 was regarded as an old spinster, the notion that only marriage and children can make a woman happy put immense pressure on them to get married, as did the facts that sex before marriage was 1) risky and 2) total taboo, and the fact that it was near impossible to leave home without being married.
So with these factors having been largely removed, there is far less pressure on girls to get married and to get married fast.

Does that mean if it's someone other than Neo, it's ok?

Seriously, though, I've been married. I took it very seriously. I also took it seriously when he started being verbally abusive and neglecting important things like clothes and medical care for me and the kids.

I was being a traditional stay-at-home mom - home cooked meals every night, even to the point of home-made bread at least once a week. I figured he'd take his responsibilities as seriously as I did.

I have to say that, starting with my generation (the '60s generation), the idea of marriage as permanent was pretty much shot. People from that point on are just not grown up enough, in general, to support it.

I can't say that it's on it's way out, though. There are enough people who think it's a good thing, at least temporarily.

I don't believe in it, though. Getting out of a bad relationship is hard enough without attaching legalities to it.

I'm sorry about your bad experiances, but you know walking away is just as easy with or without marriage.

I've been dating the same person for the last 7 years, and we're not married or engaged. My relationship is thus viewed as "less than" the relationships of married people.

In the time my partner and I have been together, two of my friends have been married and later divorced.It's because they played bad wedding music, isn't it?

I'm sorry about your bad experiances, but you know walking away is just as easy with or without marriage.

Not really. Walking away from a bad relationship only takes some will power. Walking away from a marriage takes some will power and a lawyer.

I like being married. I doubt that this is a brilliant contribution to the conversation. I think marriage is great but you have to take it seriously in the sense that it is not to be entered into or withdrawn from willy-nilly. Boy, I like the word "willy-nilly".

My advice is do couple therapy before you get married and incorporate your dicussions in a prenuptual agreement. I had a lot of fun working on my prenup.

Although marriage should be taken seriously, my best advice is never to have a serious relationship. Keep things fun and pleasant. Be sure to marry someone who accepts you for who you are. I do not reccommend hiding anything from your betrothed. It is better to realize that it won't work out than that it isnt.

Every bottle has its lid go and find yours and get married.

Every bottle has its lid go and find yours and get married.

I have to marry a lid? I don't think we have much in common...

I have to marry a lid? I don't think we have much in common...

If you are a lid you could certainly marry a bottle.

I just had a thought while thinking about broken engagement and broken marriages that end in divorce. Do engagements and marriages, the rings, the ceremony, the whole thing really mean anything anymore? I mean 50% of marriages today end in divorces, and I can't imagine how many engagements get broken off. I dunno, usually when you get engaged or married, you're saying that you want to spend the rest of your life with that person, through better or worse. Now I can understand if one party is an abusive, neglectful asshole or bitch, or whatever, but at the same time it just seems like engagements and marriages are not taken as seriously as they used to be.

Thoughts.

I think the major reason is that most marriages today are based in love.

Now, I pity the marriage without love, but love's a shaky thing to base anything on. Rather than people coming together to discuss things as they should (even before dating or courting in my opinion), they tend to say "I love you and you love me. Let's get married."

All these things need to be answered first, and 9 out of 10 people I know don't:
Would we be unequally yoked in religion? in politics?
Do our future plans get along? Do I want to be a professor in Europe and you a tour guide in Jamaica?
Will the person be a good husband or wife? Not merely can we get along, but are we going to fulfill our respective responsibilities?
Will the person be a good parent? Are our parenting philosophies in agreement?
Is the person financially responsible? Are our spending habits and expectations compatible?
Are our lifestyles and expectations about lifestyles compatible?

I think people ask these questions, but they never really answer them. Instead they look to love, which really doesn't stay blind for long.

If you are a lid you could certainly marry a bottle.

What would *that* ceremony be like? "You may now cover the bride..."

Not really. Walking away from a bad relationship only takes some will power. Walking away from a marriage takes some will power and a lawyer.

Heh not at all. I was being pedantic with my use of the phrase 'walk away'.

It only takes legs to do that.:D

If you are a lid you could certainly marry a bottle.

Have you asked Bottle's opinion on this? :p

Have you asked Bottle's opinion on this? :p

I think she would agree.

I think she would agree.

To marry me? I doubt it. There are few insane women left in this world, and she is not one of them. Someday however, I will find my misogynistic masochistic multiple-personality infused paranoid schizophrenic soulmate, and then all will be fine.

Until she kills me because I was sleeping with one of her other personalities.