NationStates Jolt Archive

Some people say that Sweden is the most successful society in the world. Others say that Swedes are the most benevolent people in the world. Whats your opinion of Sweden and swedish people?

In my opinion, Sweden has a good pre-school system and a good emphasis on children. Apart from that however I that they are a bunch of lazy greedy arrogent amoral welfare-loving bums not even worthy of respect.

S'alright.

Never lived there, so I couldn't say much about their mentality.
Their social system seems one of the best in the world, though, from what I hear.
Kudos, Swedes!

...not even worthy of respect.

It's a sad state of affairs that a bunch of lazy greedy arrogant amoral welfare-loving bums are considered among the best countries, they deserve great respect for pulling that one off.

What does it say about the rest of us, we must be really crap.

Swedes claim that thier country is egalitarian but in reality nothing could be further from the truth. For example, the Swedish government had an open borders policy for all the new EU countries since 2004. Such a policy of cheap labour migration depresses wages in order to improve profits for corporations, while ordinary working folks get undercut and put out of work. Doesn't sound very socialist or egalitarian, does it?

Sweden claims to be a democracy but the truth is thier politicians are puppets controlled by the big corporations. This explains why corporate taxes are low in Sweden while ordinary working people foot most of the tax bill.

Apparently they can't handle immigrants for peanuts.

Nice meatballs.

Oh... when Fass finds this thread...

Sweden claims to be a democracy but the truth is thier politicians are puppets controlled by the big corporations. This explains why corporate taxes are low in Sweden while ordinary working people foot most of the tax bill.

You could throw a pin at a globe and, no matter where it hit, that would pretty much describe things.

Oh... when Fass finds this thread...

My thoughts exactly. :p

Never lived there, so I couldn't say much about their mentality.
Their social system seems one of the best in the world, though, from what I hear.
Kudos, Swedes!

With social security in Sweden you get 80% of your former wage for a year if you lose your job. This is stupid because if I had a job that payed well with most other jobs paying less than 80% of the job then I would earn less money buy working and more money by living off welfare.

With social security in Sweden you get 80% of your former wage for a year if you lose your job.

The bastards!

Oh... when Fass finds this thread...

This ^

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Defend abstinence and family values!

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Defend abstinence and family values!

Not very subtle are you

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

THe bastards!

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Screw that, I'm going to Sweden!

Defend abstinence and family values!

Whatever dude, I'm off to Sweden...

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Defend abstinence and family values!
Ok, you're GOT to be a puppet and I'd swear you're going after Fass deliberately.

But just in case you aren't, you ARE aware that more than a million Swedes immigrated to the US in the early 1900's and settled in various areas, particularly Minnesota, right?

Well I know that they have some good universities and some nice looking women (http://images.shoutwire.com/pic_full/Swedish%20Girls22919559-f899-42a7-a051-298f3dcfe77f.jpg).

Anyone here actually been there? No, then STFU.

With social security in Sweden you get 80% of your former wage for a year if you lose your job. This is stupid because if I had a job that payed well with most other jobs paying less than 80% of the job then I would earn less money buy working and more money by living off welfare.

I find it very fair. You have paid in more during your time in your previous job, you get out more for the time it takes you to find another job on a similar level. That way, a job and unemployment for 4 months doesn't immediately result in you losing your house due to missed mortgage payments.

Swedes claim that thier country is egalitarian but in reality nothing could be further from the truth.
Well that's just silly.

There's plenty of things that could be farther from the truth.
For example, the Swedish government had an open borders policy for all the new EU countries since 2004. Such a policy of cheap labour migration depresses wages in order to improve profits for corporations, while ordinary working folks get undercut and put out of work.
How are the new migrants with jobs not "ordinary working folks"? That's all economic migration is -_-
Doesn't sound very socialist or egalitarian, does it?
No, but then you've missed out basically everything else about the country, like their good education, universal healthcare system, alright benefits etc. etc. that actually make it a social market economy.
Sweden claims to be a democracy but the truth is thier politicians are puppets controlled by the big corporations.
Uhu... and can you tell me of a state in which big business doesn't have a massive role in how the rest of the country is run?
This explains why corporate taxes are low in Sweden while ordinary working people foot most of the tax bill.
I'd love to see some figures backing this up.

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Defend abstinence and family values!
I see, you're a troll.

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Defend abstinence and family values!

I can only repeat, kudos to those Swedes.

Well, Sweden is quite possibly the second best society in the world.

They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, in that nothing bad there is so bad that it reaches international news.

They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, in that nothing bad there is so bad that it reaches international news.

In all fairness, pretty much the same can be said about Ireland.

They seem to be doing pretty well for themselves, in that nothing bad there is so bad that it reaches international news.

Maybe that's because they're the most boring society in the world.

Maybe that's because they're the most boring society in the world.

Not if this is to be believed :


In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

Not if this is to be believed :

That's because they're so bored; there's nothing else to do!

That's because they're so bored; there's nothing else to do!

Sounds good to me.

In all fairness, pretty much the same can be said about Ireland.

This is true.....

Taking all bets as to whose puppet this is.

As for the Swedes nice people a few good looking women certainly some nice scenery up in the top end where I will one day be going in the summer and looking around. But I don't know if I would like to live there.

Swedes claim that thier country is egalitarian but in reality nothing could be further from the truth. For example, the Swedish government had an open borders policy for all the new EU countries since 2004. Such a policy of cheap labour migration depresses wages in order to improve profits for corporations, while ordinary working folks get undercut and put out of work. Doesn't sound very socialist or egalitarian, does it?

Sweden claims to be a democracy but the truth is thier politicians are puppets controlled by the big corporations. This explains why corporate taxes are low in Sweden while ordinary working people foot most of the tax bill.

Well since I'm not a big fan of socialism, but I do believe that whats best for corporations is best for everyone, I gotta say that I don't really care too much.

You've yet to suggest a reason why Sweden is a rubbish country that can't be said for every other country in the world. And many of your negatives seem fine to me.

Huzzah Sweden!
*secretly prefers Finland*

OP, did you start this thread just to troll Sweden? :(

Well, Sweden is quite possibly the second best society in the world.
g3n13 what is the best society, if sweden is 2nd best?

Some people say that Sweden is the most successful society in the world. Others say that Swedes are the most benevolent people in the world. Whats your opinion of Sweden and swedish people?

In my opinion, Sweden has a good pre-school system and a good emphasis on children. Apart from that however I that they are a bunch of lazy greedy arrogent amoral welfare-loving bums not even worthy of respect.
damn socialist assholes, living off the state. a whole country of them. i bet they just sit around all day using drugs and watching pornography, laughing all the way to the bank to go collect their next welfare (free money for lazy poor people) handout

OP, did you start this thread just to troll Sweden? :(

Seems that way.

It's a sad state of affairs that a bunch of lazy greedy arrogant amoral welfare-loving bums are considered among the best countries, they deserve great respect for pulling that one off.

What does it say about the rest of us, we must be really crap.
Or, alternatively, that understanding of "best" is perhaps not quite as straightforward as we think it is.

Or, alternatively, that understanding of "best" is perhaps not quite as straightforward as we think it is.

I think his concept of "best", is a socialist haven.

I think his concept of "best", is a socialist haven.

Socialist in the sense of Stalinist, rather in the current Swedish socialist.

Actually, some of what DO's spouting seems to be more economically right wing, but the political compass in his/her sig is quite significantly economically left...

Some people say that Sweden is the most successful society in the world. Others say that Swedes are the most benevolent people in the world. Whats your opinion of Sweden and swedish people?

In my opinion, Sweden has a good pre-school system and a good emphasis on children. Apart from that however I that they are a bunch of lazy greedy arrogent amoral welfare-loving bums not even worthy of respect.

There is no "most successful" society in the world. If aliens attacked, US would be the "most successful" because it has the most powerful army. China could be "most successful" in an epidemic because it has the highest population hence more people would suvive. And then there are per capita index'es. Like HDI:

1. Iceland 0.968 (▬)
2. Norway 0.968 (▬)
3. Canada 0.967 (▲ 1)
4. Australia 0.965 (▼ 1)
5. Ireland 0.960 (▬)
6. Netherlands 0.958 (▲ 3)
7. Sweden 0.958 (▼ 1)
8. Japan 0.956 (▬)
9. Luxembourg 0.956 (▲ 9)
10. Switzerland 0.955 (▼ 3)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Then democracy index:

1 Sweden 9.88 Full democracy
2 Norway 9.68 Full democracy
3 Iceland 9.65 Full democracy
4 Netherlands 9.53 Full democracy
5 Denmark 9.52 Full democracy
6 Finland 9.25 Full democracy
7 New Zealand 9.19 Full democracy
8 Switzerland 9.15 Full democracy
9 Luxembourg 9.10 Full democracy
10 Australia 9.09 Full democracy
11 Canada 9.07 Full democracy
12 Ireland 9.01 Full democracy
13 Germany 8.82 Full democracy
14 Austria 8.49 Full democracy
15 Spain 8.45 Full democracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Education index:

1 Australia ▬ 0.993
2 Denmark ▬ 0.993
3 Finland ▬ 0.993
4 New Zealand ▬ 0.993
5 Canada ▬ 0.991
6 Norway ▼ 0.989
7 South Korea ▲ 0.988
8 Ireland ▼ 0.985
9 Netherlands ▼ 0.985
10 Greece ▲ 0.980
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index

Programme for International Student Assessment
Mthematics Science Reading
1. Taiwan Finland South Korea
2. Finland Hong Kong Finland
3. Hong Kong Canada Hong Kong
4. South Korea Taiwan Canada
5. Netherlands Estonia New Zealand
6. Switzerland Japan Ireland
7. Canada New Zealand Australia
8. Macau Australia Liechtenstein
9. Liechtenstein Netherlands Poland
10. Japan Liechtenstein Sweden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA_(student_assessment)

Gender gap: (What an embarrassment for Canada)

Top 20 Countries[5]

1. Norway 82.39%
2. Finland 81.95%
3. Sweden 81.39%
4. Iceland 79.99%
5. New Zealand 78.59%
6. Philippines 75.68%
7. Denmark 75.38%
8. Ireland 75.18%
9. Netherlands 73.99%
10. Latvia 73.97%



11. Germany 73.94%
12. Sri_Lanka 73.71%
13. United Kingdom 73.66%
14. Switzerland 73.60%
15. France 73.41%
16. Lesotho 73.20%
17. Spain 72.81%
18. Mozambique 72.66%
19. Trinidad and Tobago 72.45%
20. Moldova 72.44%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report

Finally,

Satisfaction with Life Index
1 Denmark 273.4
2 Switzerland 273.33
3 Austria 260
4 Iceland 260
5 The Bahamas 256.67
6 Finland 256.67
7 Sweden 256.67
8 Bhutan 253.33
9 Brunei 253.33
10 Canada 253.33
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index

So, Sweden is not the most successful society in the world.

Socialist in the sense of Stalinist, rather in the current Swedish socialist.

Actually, some of what DO's spouting seems to be more economically right wing, but the political compass in his/her sig is quite significantly economically left...

*nod* I didn't note that before. Perhaps he/she's left-wing Radical or full on communist? *shrug* Not that I mind, of course. Everyone has their own opinion! I'm pretty damn conservative myself, hence why I'm rather against communism and do not believe that a socialist society is the "best" one. But perhaps he does.

7. Sweden 0.958 (▼ 1)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_Development_Index

Then democracy index:
1 Sweden 9.88 Full democracy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

Education index: Not in Top 10!

Fie shame Sweden...

Programme for International Student Assessment
Mthematics Science Reading
10. [for reading] Sweden
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA_(student_assessment)

Gender gap: (What an embarrassment for Canada)

Top 20 Countries[5]
3 Sweden 81.39%
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Gender_Gap_Report

Finally,

Satisfaction with Life Index
7 Sweden 256.67
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satisfaction_with_Life_Index

So, Sweden is not the most successful society in the world.

It features pretty high in every list except one, where it's probably 11th or something.

You forgot the most important index:

Five most expensive places to buy a Big Mac (as of July 2008)[4]

1. Norway - USD 7.88
2. Sweden - USD 6.37
3. Switzerland - USD 6.36
4. Iceland - USD 5.97
5. Denmark - USD 5.95

Five most affordable (as of July 2008)[4]

1. Malaysia - USD 1.70
2. Hong Kong - USD 1.71
3. China - USD 1.83
4. Thailand - USD 1.86
5. Sri Lanka - USD 1.95

Ten fastest earned[3]

1. Tokyo, Japan - 10 minutes
2. Los Angeles, United States - 11 minutes
3. Chicago, Illinois United States - 12 minutes
4. Miami, Florida United States - 12 minutes
5. New York City, New York United States - 13 minutes
6. Auckland, New Zealand - 14 minutes
7. Sydney, Australia - 14 minutes
8. Toronto, Canada - 14 minutes
9. Zürich, Switzerland - 15 minutes
10. Dublin, Ireland - 15 minutes

Ten slowest earned[3]

1. Bogotá, Colombia - 97 minutes
2. Nairobi, Kenya - 91 minutes
3. Jakarta, Indonesia - 86 minutes
4. Lima, Peru - 86 minutes
5. Caracas, Venezuela - 85 minutes
6. Mexico City, Mexico - 82 minutes
7. Manila, Philippines - 81 minutes
8. Mumbai, India - 70 minutes
9. Sofia, Bulgaria - 69 minutes
10. Bucharest, Romania - 69 minutes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Mac_Index

Fie shame Sweden...



It features pretty high in every list except one, where it's probably 11th or something.

They suck at Mathematics and Science too, just good at reading.

best place for this cartoon:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_E-FH55qi6WI/R5fASzSbuxI/AAAAAAAAAP4/seJXrMo-tEw/s400/striphandler.gif

You forgot the most important index:

Five most expensive places to buy a Big Mac (as of July 2008)[4]

1. Norway - USD 7.88


Oh please a big mac for $8.

They suck at Mathematics and Science too, just good at reading.

So I went to check, the ONE list you cited without Sweden in the top 10 was the Education Index, where they in fact, contrary to my prediction of 11th, came 16th.

16th!

16th

They do okay

So I went to check, the ONE list you cited without Sweden in the top 10 was the Education Index, where they in fact, contrary to my prediction of 11th, came 16th.

16th!

16th

They do okay

Nah, this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA_(student_assessment)

not the UN education index.

Nah, this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PISA_(student_assessment)

not the UN education index.

No, yes, I mean....

They feature in the top 10 for each link you provided except the UN education index.

Sure they come in 10th for reading on the PISA but they're still in the top 10 out of all countries while also being in the top 10 for every other link you provided except for one, the UN Education Index, where if you actually look at it they come 16th.

Not bad, I'd like to see you find a country that consistently scores as across all these indexes.

Of course, these indexes are compiled by Swedes, boring, unfashionable Volvo driving accountants that they all are, there might be some bias.

No, yes, I mean....

They feature in the top 10 for each link you provided except the UN education index.

Sure they come in 10th for reading on the PISA but they're still in the top 10 out of all countries while also being in the top 10 for every other link you provided except for one, the UN Education Index, where if you actually look at it they come 16th.

Not bad, I'd like to see you find a country that consistently scores as across all these indexes.

Of course, these indexes are compiled by Swedes, boring, unfashionable Volvo driving accountants that they all are, there might be some bias.

Dude, PISA looks at 3 different categories. In Mathematics, Sweden is not in top 20. In Science, Sweden is not in top 20. Only in reading its #10. Get it?

Oh please a big mac for $8.

Actually it does. But we have high wages here.

And WTF? 80 % taxes, are you lot mental? For a normal person you get roughly 30-35 % taxes.

Sweden is a brilliant country. My neighbour country, so I've been there many times.

Some people say that Sweden is the most successful society in the world. Others say that Swedes are the most benevolent people in the world. Whats your opinion of Sweden and swedish people?

I've lived in Sweden for the past five years. I'm an American.

My opinion contains both positive and negative observations.

Positive:
- Since I am an atheist, I love the secular atmosphere of Sweden
- I like the low crime rate that exists in most places

Negative:
- Jante's Law attitudes are commonplace (see Wikipedia)
- Parents tend to push charitable aide for their children off onto the State


What makes a society a success depends on one's standards for success. Sweden is the darling nation of the Left, because of certain outcomes that the Left values. (I think the Left often forgets that Sweden had an economically liberal past that may help account for its current high standard of living.)

Oh please a big mac for $8.

What, you want an $8 Big Mac?

Actually it does. But we have high wages here.

And WTF? 80 % taxes, are you lot mental? For a normal person you get roughly 30-35 % taxes.

Sweden is a brilliant country. My neighbour country, so I've been there many times.

Who has 80% taxes?

Dude, PISA looks at 3 different categories. In Mathematics, Sweden is not in top 20. In Science, Sweden is not in top 20. Only in reading its #10. Get it?

...

Negative:
- Jante's Law attitudes are commonplace (see Wikipedia)

You clearly have not been brought up in Scandinavia. That's the way it goes, and it's not negative.

- Parents tend to push charitable aide for their children off onto the State

That's why we pay so high taxes.

Who has 80% taxes?

Someone posted that. Seems it was deleted.

...

So your statement "They feature in the top 10 for each link you provided except the UN education index." was incorrect.

Some people say that Sweden is the most successful society in the world. Others say that Swedes are the most benevolent people in the world. Whats your opinion of Sweden and swedish people?

I've lived in Sweden for the past five years. I'm an American.

My opinion contains both positive and negative observations. Here are just a few.

Positive:
- Since I am an atheist, I love the secular atmosphere of Sweden
- I like the low crime rate that exists in most places
- The standard of living for the average Swede is "comfortable"

Negative:
- Jante's Law attitudes are commonplace (see Wikipedia)
- Parents tend to push charitable aid for their children off onto the State
- Taxes are very high, and it is difficult to save money
- High employment (especially for immigrants) even before the Crash


What makes a society a success depends on one's standards for success. Sweden is the darling of the Left, because of certain outcomes that the Left values. (And I think the Left often forgets that Sweden had an economically liberal past that may help account for its current high standard of living. The credit might not go to the State.)

However, if one consider issues that are off of the Left's radar, Sweden may not seem like such a utopia. By libertarian standards, Sweden's reliance on the coercion of the State to solve all their problems makes it a natural rights failure. The ends don't justify the means! Also, any society that has significant Jante's Law attitudes is a cultural failure, according to my personal standards.

Sweden, IMO, is a mixed bag.

Sweden, IMO, is a mixed bag.

Then go back to US.

So your statement "They feature in the top 10 for each link you provided except the UN education index." was incorrect.

No?

You clearly have not been brought up in Scandinavia. That's the way it goes, and it's not negative.

Jante's Law attitudes are aweful. I hope you are not defending them!

- Taxes are very high, and it is difficult to save money
- High employment (especially for immigrants) even before the Crash

Sweden, IMO, is a mixed bag.

High employment is bad? I don't think so.

If you don't want to pay high taxes, you shouldn't live anywhere in Scandinavia.

Seems you would be better off somewhere.

Then go back to US.

Why should I? Is it illegal to have negative opinions of Sweden while living in Sweden? Is this your free society? My country right or wrong! :)

So I have some negative views of Sweden. So what? I was ASKED for my opinion, and I gave it.

High employment is bad? I don't think so.

If you don't want to pay high taxes, you shouldn't live anywhere in Scandinavia.

Seems you would be better off somewhere.

Like on a desert island.

High employment is bad? I don't think so.

If you don't want to pay high taxes, you shouldn't live anywhere in Scandinavia.

Seems you would be better off somewhere.

Don't be such a baby. And I meant to write high unemployment.

Jante's Law attitudes are aweful. I hope you are not defending them!

You just don't understand it, not having been brought up here.

Don't come to our part of the world, and try to change things. We like it.

Jante Law attitudes are awful.
Lies and foreign propaganda. Showing off and thinking you're great is what the nouveaux-riche types do, and it's incredibly tiresome.

You just don't understand it, not having been brought up here.

I understand them well enough, and they are aweful.

Don't come to our part of the world, and try to change things. We like it.

I see that you must be about six years old, by the maturity level of your posts. Go play with your toys.

Lies and foreign propaganda. Showing off and thinking you're great is what the nouveaux-riche types do, and it's incredibly tiresome.

Not as tiresome and soul-crushing as Jante's Law.

Not as tiresome and soul-crushing as Jante's Law.
Not really, no.

I see that you must be about six years old, by the maturity level of your posts. Go play with your toys.

That statement was mature in your mind? Oh my.

Not going around thinking you are better than everyone else is good? Clearly, you don't understand how we think here. A holier-thou attitude may be good for America, but not here.

Anyway, the maturity level of this topic is not exactly a credit to Sweden. You'd all be more effective in making Sweden look good by shutting up. But since you won't, this ends my participation here.

I understand them well enough, and they are aweful.



I see that you must be about six years old, by the maturity level of your posts. Go play with your toys.

Hes right tho. If you are moving to some place else but dont like some of its fundamental aspects, get the fuck out.

Jante's Law prolly has a huge influence in why Nordic countries are the most egalitarian in the world.

Bad food. Otherwise okay, I suppose.

Not bad, I'd like to see you find a country that consistently scores as across all these indexes.
I give you two: Oz and NZ:

PISA:
Maths
New Zealand: 11
Australia: 13
Sweden: >20

Reading
New Zealand: 7
Australia: 8
Sweden: >20

Science
New Zealand: 5
Australia: 7
Sweden: 10

Education Index
Australia: 1
New Zealand: 4
Sweden: 16

Fastest earned Big Mac
New Zealand: 6
Australia: 7
Sweden: >10

Satisfaction with life index
Sweden: 7
New Zealand: 18
Australia: 26

Human Development Index
Australia: 4
Sweden: 7
New Zealand: 20

Democracy Index
Sweden: 1
New Zealand: 7
Australia: 10

Gender Gap
Sweden: 3
New Zealand: 5
Australia: 21


More importantly:
Climate
Winter average temp
New Territories: 5C to 20C
Western Australia: 9C to 16C
New Zealand: 3C to 14C
Sweden: -7C to 2C

Summer average temp
New Territories: 21C to 36C
Western Australia: 18C to 30C
Sweden: 20C to 25C
New Zealand: 16C to 25C

number of days below freezing level
New Territories: none
Western Australia: maybe a couple if we're really unlucky
New Zealand: a few North Island, more than a few South Island.
Sweden: up to 1/2 the damn year right up north!

g3n13 what is the best society, if sweden is 2nd best?

Prince Edward Island, clearly.

Sweden, like all Scandinavian countries, does certainly have a lot to admire about them. In fact, the only thing I can think of that I dislike about them is some of the pop acts they've inflicted on us, but being American that's really the pot calling the kettle black.

I give you two: Oz and NZ:

PISA:
Maths
New Zealand: 11
Australia: 13
Sweden: >20

Reading
New Zealand: 7
Australia: 8
Sweden: >20

Science
New Zealand: 5
Australia: 7
Sweden: 10

Education Index
Australia: 1
New Zealand: 4
Sweden: 16

Fastest earned Big Mac
New Zealand: 6
Australia: 7
Sweden: >10

Satisfaction with life index
Sweden: 7
New Zealand: 18
Australia: 26

Human Development Index yep
Australia: 4
Sweden: 7
New Zealand: 20

Democracy Index yep
Sweden: 1
New Zealand: 7
Australia: 10

Gender Gap yep
Sweden: 3
New Zealand: 5
Australia: 21


More importantly:
Climate
Winter average temp
New Territories: 5C to 20C
Western Australia: 9C to 16C
New Zealand: 3C to 14C
Sweden: -7C to 2C

Summer average temp
New Territories: 21C to 36C
Western Australia: 18C to 30C
Sweden: 20C to 25C
New Zealand: 16C to 25C

number of days below freezing level
New Territories: none
Western Australia: maybe a couple if we're really unlucky
New Zealand: a few North Island, more than a few South Island.
Sweden: up to 1/2 the damn year right up north!

Hell, Canada is doing very well too, (#3 in HDI, well ahead of Sweden) in most rankings except gender equality.

*snip*

I'm torn between checking the figures, which seems a real drag, and humbly accepting without,

I choose to ignore :)

Hell, Canada is doing very well too, (#3 in HDI, well ahead of Sweden) in most rankings except gender equality.
We kick your butt when it comes to climate, cricket and oval-ball games.

Speaking of oval ball:
Number of World Cup Rugby Wins
Australia: 2
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

Number of World Cup Rugby League Wins
Australia: 9
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

not shaping up well for Sweden or Canada there!

And I'm not even going to bother saying anything about the state of their cricketing prowess...

We kick your butt when it comes to climate, cricket and oval-ball games.

Speaking of oval ball:
Number of World Cup Rugby Wins
Australia: 2
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

Number of World Cup Rugby League Wins
Australia: 9
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

not shaping up well for Sweden or Canada there!

And I'm not even going to bother saying anything about the state of their cricketing prowess...

Your points are both eloquent and effective,

*emigrates to Australia instead - NZ is all cold and gloomy and stuff, and they pronounce all vowels as 'i', as in tint when they mean tent...and etc.,*

We kick your butt when it comes to climate, cricket and oval-ball games.

Speaking of oval ball:
Number of World Cup Rugby Wins
Australia: 2
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

Number of World Cup Rugby League Wins
Australia: 9
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

not shaping up well for Sweden or Canada there!

And I'm not even going to bother saying anything about the state of their cricketing prowess...

Well at least Canada has a cricket team.

We kick your butt when it comes to climate, cricket and oval-ball games.

Speaking of oval ball:
Number of World Cup Rugby Wins
Australia: 2
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

Number of World Cup Rugby League Wins
Australia: 9
New Zealand: 1
Canada: 0
Sweden: 0

not shaping up well for Sweden or Canada there!

And I'm not even going to bother saying anything about the state of their cricketing prowess...

International Ice Hockey Federation Ranking:

Rank Team Points Change
1 Canada 3410 +1
2 Russia 3400 +3
3 Sweden*** 3400 -2
4 Finland 3385 -1
5 Czech Republic 3265 -1
6 United States 3105 +1
7 Switzerland 3020 +1
8 Slovakia 2955 -2
9 Belarus 2845 -
10 Germany 2740 +1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIHF_World_Ranking


HAAAAA

Sweden sounds like a nice place to visit. But I wouldn't want to live there a social system like that would drive me nuts.

Not as tiresome and soul-crushing as Jante's Law.

I just read them. For the most part, I agree fully with them.

Apparently they can't handle immigrants for peanuts.

Yeah, if it was so successful, it wouldnt have a lot of nationalistic anti-immigrant, islamophobic bigots.


Sweden is like every other Western country. It has its good and its bad.

I just read them. For the most part, I agree fully with them.

People do, in general, have far too much self esteem. So I have no problem with the general thrust of these ideas.

Taken too far though, it can lead to a depressing level of provincial ignorance, because the wider community can hide behind these sort of attitudes in order to maintain a smug air of superiority.

Apparently living in Denmark is a bit like this for foreigners. I wouldn't know personally because I refuse to live in a place with food like that. Disgusting.

Education index:

1 Australia ▬ 0.993
2 Denmark ▬ 0.993
3 Finland ▬ 0.993
4 New Zealand ▬ 0.993
5 Canada ▬ 0.991
6 Norway ▼ 0.989
7 South Korea ▲ 0.988
8 Ireland ▼ 0.985
9 Netherlands ▼ 0.985
10 Greece ▲ 0.980
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_Index


:eek:

I lived in Ireland for 5 years, and I found the education system to be absolute pants.

Juked stats?:confused:

Some people say that Sweden is the most successful society in the world. Others say that Swedes are the most benevolent people in the world.

Those people, apart from being figments, clearly have no idea what they're talking about.

Really stupid thread, by the by.

Sweden was the ONLY country in the EU to welcome migrants from all of the new accession countries. In addition to this they now want companies to be able to hire anybody from any country. Also there is no minimum wage.

This cheap labour migration is a plan to make the corporations rich while working folks are denied any hope of having any sort of a decent standard of living. This will create a third world country of corporate princes and the impoverished.

Underneath the veneer of generous welfare and high taxes is a different Sweden entirely. That is the real Sweden. The good Sweden we all thought we knew was just a false disguise. Thank you Sweden, for showing your true colours to the rest of the world.

Swedes = Evil Corporatists. Period.

Sweden was the ONLY country in the EU to welcome migrants from all of the new accession countries. In addition to this they now want companies to be able to hire anybody from any country. Also there is no minimum wage.

This cheap labour migration is a plan to make the corporations rich while working folks are denied any hope of having any sort of a decent standard of living. This will create a third world country of corporate princes and the impoverished.

Underneath the veneer of generous welfare and high taxes is a different Sweden entirely. That is the real Sweden. The good Sweden we all thought we knew was just a false disguise. Thank you Sweden, for showing your true colours to the rest of the world.

Swedes = Evil Corporatists. Period.
Mmm. Thin veneer of anti-capitalism, delicious centre of racism.

By libertarian standards, Sweden's reliance on the coercion of the State to solve all their problems makes it a natural rights failure. The ends don't justify the means!
This is what got to me, more so than the rest of what he was jumped on for. He would rather have his political theories implemented, even if they don't actually work, than get problems solved, but by a theory he doesn't like?
Really stupid thread, by the by.
Indeed. Epic fail from the start!

Greater than some, worse than others.
Depending on your definition of course.

I have to say though that I do not like the big brother mentality that has sprung up in most of the West.

And yes...obvious...trolling..failed..etc

- Jante's Law attitudes are commonplace (see Wikipedia)

I don't understand the article since many of the ten rules could be used to explain the negative aspects of many culture including the US's ( held conservatives and libertarians at least as much as liberals) though in a more individualistic fashion.

- Parents tend to push charitable aid for their children off onto the State

In an age where children are expensive and parents recoup very little of the costs of children this makes sense. Also, the low child poverty rates is something to admire

- Taxes are very high, and it is difficult to save money

Sweden has a higher savings rate than the US. It would seem easier to save there when compared to the US.


What makes a society a success depends on one's standards for success. Sweden is the darling of the Left, because of certain outcomes that the Left values. (And I think the Left often forgets that Sweden had an economically liberal past that may help account for its current high standard of living. The credit might not go to the State.)

A lot of the credit goes to the high level of social investment by the state and child friendly policies that increase the female labor participation rates.

However, if one consider issues that are off of the Left's radar, Sweden may not seem like such a utopia. By libertarian standards, Sweden's reliance on the coercion of the State to solve all their problems makes it a natural rights failure. The ends don't justify the means!

Who cares about libertarian standards?

Jante's Law seems ok to me, but I could see how it could produce a society of suspicion and ignorance.

That being said, anything to deflate unneccessary and unwarranted arrogance.

In Sweden they have the lowest average age of losing virginity and the most pornography and prostitutes.

I hope that we never get any of those dirty precocious Swedes immigrating to America and ruining our morals.

Defend abstinence and family values!

hahahah
well its not like americans are better..

sweden has those high rates simply bcoz the laws allow them to ..

if thge laws are lightened up in america ...why ?? the rates of immorality and sexual porn will be much higher tHAN ALL OF FEROPU PUT TOGETHER ..

WHY EVEN NOw ...AMERICANS PRODUCE the most pronographic materisal worildwide ....and guees what the rules are already supposedly strict ..

imagine if there are no laws ...porn in america will double or tripl ...

hahaha

Sweden-The least cared about society?

New Zealand, Australia and the Nordic countries all rate consistently high. Nordic countries have Jante Law, and NZ and Australia has the tall poppy equivelant. Correlation, but is it causation?

hahahah
well its not like americans are better..

sweden has those high rates simply bcoz the laws allow them to ..

if thge laws are lightened up in america ...why ?? the rates of immorality and sexual porn will be much higher tHAN ALL OF FEROPU PUT TOGETHER ..

WHY EVEN NOw ...AMERICANS PRODUCE the most pronographic materisal worildwide ....and guees what the rules are already supposedly strict ..

imagine if there are no laws ...porn in america will double or tripl ...

hahaha

lolwut, in English please?

You could throw a pin at a globe and, no matter where it hit, that would pretty much describe things.

What if it hit Rand McNally?

IMO, Sweden reached its peak under Gustavus Adolphus (and yes, I've read 1632) and it's been all downhill ever since. And claiming "neutrality" in WWII did nothing to halt the slide.

IMO, Sweden reached its peak under Gustavus Adolphus (and yes, I've read 1632) and it's been all downhill ever since. And claiming "neutrality" in WWII did nothing to halt the slide.

NM has spoken.

/thread.

Wait Sweden has no minimum wage? Is this true?

If so, I would say there is a fucked problem with Sweden, and makes me wonder why people label it a socialist country.

Wait Sweden has no minimum wage? Is this true?

If so, I would say there is a fucked problem with Sweden, and makes me wonder why people label it a socialist country.

There is no minimum wage that is required by legislation. Instead, minimum wage standards in different sectors are normally set by collective bargaining. Most labour contracts were re-negotiated during 2004, and call for wage increases of around seven percent over a three-year period.

Sounds like they have decent labour laws, and don't need a minimum wage. Also, the hospitals and welfare make them socialist, not some government mandated wage.

Sounds like they have decent labour laws, and don't need a minimum wage. Also, the hospitals and welfare make them socialist, not some government mandated wage.

Well that will work well when it is a worker's market but when the companies have a bit more bargaining power they will be able to drive wages down. Very much the free market paradise.

Of course they're successful. People forget that not only does Sweden have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world but the companies that pay the taxes also get considerably more for them. A neat, efficient tax system and government means you can do a whole hell of a lot more with your money than you could under, say, the US system.

As a matter of fact, US corporations pay some of the highest tax rates in the world and the vast majority of them get absolutely nothing in return other than a bunch of mediocre, wasteful garbage, not to mention the pleasure of having to shoulder health and retirement costs which are then passed on to workers in the form of layoffs, wage freezes, and overall shitty benefits. Overall, America has a very bad tax system that does nothing but hurt our economy.

Well that will work well when it is a worker's market but when the companies have a bit more bargaining power they will be able to drive wages down. Very much the free market paradise.

And that's when Unions come into play. But yeah, they're generally socialist, with some free market crap added to the mixture.

And that's when Unions come into play. But yeah, they're generally socialist, with some free market crap added to the mixture.

Yes but how strong are unions there? Unions aren't always a good thing anyway.

Free market crap?

Of course they're successful. People forget that not only does Sweden have one of the lowest corporate tax rates in the world but the companies that pay the taxes also get considerably more for them. A neat, efficient tax system and government means you can do a whole hell of a lot more with your money than you could under, say, the US system.

As a matter of fact, US corporations pay some of the highest tax rates in the world and the vast majority of them get absolutely nothing in return other than a bunch of mediocre, wasteful garbage, not to mention the pleasure of having to shoulder health and retirement costs which are then passed on to workers in the form of layoffs, wage freezes, and overall shitty benefits. Overall, America has a very bad tax system that does nothing but hurt our economy.

I think that a big reason that Sweden has such an efficient tax system is because of its large welfare state. They have more to lose from inefficiencies and the public is willing to accept relatively low tax rates on capital and relatively high tax rates on labor when they get something out of it. Or in other words Bush's attempt to end the "double taxation" of capital gains seemed like blatant class warfare but when a social democratic party does something similar it seems like a pragmatic worry about capital flight.



Yes but how strong are unions there? Unions aren't always a good thing anyway.

The unions are very strong over there. I believe over 80% of the labor force belong to a union. With widespread collective bargaining they don't need a minimum wage. I find it amusing when people point out that countries like sweden and denmark don't have minimum wages when they have generous welfare states and strong unions/