NationStates Jolt Archive

..will likely get deleted and prove my point.
Relevant line: Stop beating the dead horse of the Holocaust. I have ceased to care.

With that said and for those who made it past that, it just gets more offensive to the sensibilities yet if you ignore that (though I doubt anyone worth talking to this about will), I present a viable point. This (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090203/ap_on_re_eu/eu_germany_pope_holocaust_6) has encouraged me to post this, not that it is a conclusion I just came to. In short, the Pope (being a stupid dick), decided to un-excommunicate some even bigger dicks who more or less broke away from the Church years ago, one being a major Holocaust denier. Now everyone from the Jews to moderate Christians to the Germans are up in arms and Merkel is calling for a denunciation of the Holocaust denial. My response: What the fuck for? The Holocaust happened. It's over. The end. I am tired of people beating that dead horse, especially the Germans and pro-Zionist Jews.

Don't get me wrong here, the Holocaust was a horrible massacre of an innocent peoples. But give me a god damn break. The Holocaust did not just happen to Jews, it included hundreds of thousands, or more, of homosexuals, Roma gypsies, Freemasons, and the disabled. But does anyone bandy about that information? Do the homosexuals hang up the dead horse of the Holocaust in San Francisco and beat it when things don't go their way? No they don't or they wouldn't be a belittled portion of society. The Soviets carried out equally large, if not larger, genocides. Or the Rwanda genocide of the Tutsi? Not as many people but likely a larger percent of the population. But who says anything about those? Maybe history buffs and human rights activists. But say one thing the wrong way and everyone and their mom goes in front a camera and decries the improper respect given to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust. No one specifically says the Jews, but we all know that's who they are talking about realistically. And I am damn tired of it.

Speaking of which, you can't dare disagree with the actions of the hardliner, Zionist portions of Israel without people jumping down your throat about antisemitism. Why? The Holocaust. That dead horse has been hung in Jerusalem for a long time, along with the horse from the Arab-Israeli War. Would Israel be able to do what it does in the region (as run by the Zionist hardliners) without the dead horse of the Holocaust casting its shadow over the land? I propose not.

And Merkel, really. Germany is almost about to be pushed off the cliff of "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" with the shadow of the Holocaust behind it driving a governmental suppression of anything remotely related to Nazism only to serve as cover for the rise of Neo-Nazism. The Holocaust should be treated like a tragedy, but one that is a footnote in history like other tragedies. It shouldn't be forgotten, but it shouldn't be dragged out and beaten every time some one asininely assists it didn't happen/wasn't as horrible or some one defames the Jews.

People are welcome to offer their opinions, though I imagine moderation will be full of trolling and antisemitism and god knows what before too long.

Anti-semite.

But does anyone bandy about that information?

Yes actually, they do, a lot.


Do the homosexuals hang up the dead horse of the Holocaust in San Francisco and beat it when things don't go their way?

Do Jews?


No they don't or they wouldn't be a belittled portion of society. The Soviets carried out equally large, if not larger, genocides. Or the Rwanda genocide of the Tutsi? Not as many people but likely a larger percent of the population. But who says anything about those?

Quite a lot of people actually.


Speaking of which, you can't dare disagree with the actions of the hardliner, Zionist portions of Israel without people jumping down your throat about antisemitism. Why? The Holocaust.

See, that is an incredibly flippant, extremely simplified, gigantic generalisation.

Would Israel be able to do what it does in the region (as run by the Zionist hardliners) without the dead horse of the Holocaust casting its shadow over the land? I propose not.

You're wrong.


And Merkel, really. Germany is almost about to be pushed off the cliff of "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" with the shadow of the Holocaust behind it driving a governmental suppression of anything remotely related to Nazism only to serve as cover for the rise of Neo-Nazism. The Holocaust should be treated like a tragedy, but one that is a footnote in history like other tragedies. It shouldn't be forgotten, but it shouldn't be dragged out and beaten every time some one asininely assists it didn't happen/wasn't as horrible or some one defames the Jews.


The idea that the holocaust influences Israeli policy is bullshit, it's been shown to be bullshit countless times. The only people I ever see whine constantly about the holocaust in relation to Israeli policy in fact, are people who are against Israel, claiming they only get away with what they do because of the holocaust.

It has to depend on how you are associated with it. One of my great-uncles was involved with a liberation of a camp; maybe two. He really didn't say. You would have to see the transformation he went through when you could get him to talk about it. I remember him remarking "What I saw there justified the death of every German I killed."

The Germans have made their choice so you have to respect that since it's their country.

I doubt you will see a fourth Reich from their actions. However, I will leave comments to our resident Germans.....

You make a very good point. People don't treat most other massacres the same as the holocaust. It's very strange. And even within the holocaust, it's just like you said, no one mentions all the other groups who were killed for no other reason than the way they were born.

Edit: I should have said most people.

Yes actually, they do, a lot.
I question the use of the phrase "a lot." Rarely? Maybe. Often? Questionably. A lot? No.

Do Jews?
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/26/pope.holocaust.denial/index.html

Quite a lot of people actually.
Second verse same as the first. Well third at this point.



The idea that the holocaust influences Israeli policy is bullshit, it's been shown to be bullshit countless times. The only people I ever see whine constantly about the holocaust in relation to Israeli policy in fact, are people who are against Israel, claiming they only get away with what they do because of the holocaust.
It's also a point I never put forward. A shield is not a sword. Then in your next sentence confuse them. The Holocaust being used to stop any attacks on what Israel does != the Holocaust influencing Israeli policy. Now, Zionism, that influences Israeli policy.

The Holocaust being used to stop any attacks on what Israel does

So what anyway? It's not like people are not aware that some people do this, and when they do, they get called on it.


Now, Zionism, that influences Israeli policy.

And the holocaust is not the basis for Zionism.

So what anyway? It's not like people are not aware that some people do this, and when they do, they get called on it.
It's a spectre that is ever looming

And the holocaust is not the basis for Zionism.
Right, well when you stop pretending I am saying things that I am not, we can continue.

yeah, take that people, some random internet dude is tired of hearing about it! Please wait here while I try to get the energy together to give a damn.

I unignored that message from Neo Art hoping to at least get a half-assed response that amounts to "you're a dumbass" - at least half as good as Hydesland, but what do I see? Inane bullshit. I will just take that as "you are right but I don't like you and refuse to give you the satisfaction of a rebuttal."

I unignored that message from Neo Art hoping to at least get a half-assed response that amounts to "you're a dumbass" - at least half as good as Hydesland, but what do I see? Inane bullshit. I will just take that as "you are right but I disagree and refuse to give you the satisfaction of a rebuttal."

He just gets a kick out of acting like he's better than the rest of the human race, and accordingly, everyone at NSG. Keep him on ignore.

I unignored that message from Neo Art hoping to at least get a half-assed response that amounts to "you're a dumbass" - at least half as good as Hydesland, but what do I see? Inane bullshit. I will just take that as "you are right but I don't like you and refuse to give you the satisfaction of a rebuttal."

there's nothing to be "right" about. You didn't make a point. You didn't start a debate. You didn't raise a topic.

You just whined.

They have blogs for that. I suggest you find one, so everyone who cares about your personal opinion can read it. Once you find someone like that, that is.

He just gets a kick out of acting like he's better than the rest of the human race, and accordingly, everyone at NSG. Keep him on ignore.
EDIT: Never mind. But let's leave it at this: I don't take your agreeing with me on this subject as a notch in my belt.

I question the use of the phrase "a lot." Rarely? Maybe. Often? Questionably. A lot? No.


From your experience maybe, I don't think it's possible to debate who's experience is better. Also remember, the holocaust really was mainly about the Jews. The 'final solution' was a solution to what the Nazis call "the Jewish problem" or "the Jewish question". That's why Jews made up the vast majority of those killed in the holocaust. 'Jews' was what was fuelling the Nazi policies.


http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/26/pope.holocaust.denial/index.html


Jews are annoyed at a guy who denies their ancestors were killed in a holocaust. I really don't see that as beating a dead horse.

He just gets a kick out of acting like he's better than the rest of the human race, and accordingly, everyone at NSG. Keep him on ignore.

Why does it seem like the people who are so pissy at Neo Art because he acts better then them are the ones who constantly say ignorant and stupid shit and get corrected on it?

You make a very good point. People don't treat most other massacres the same as the holocaust. It's very strange. And even within the holocaust, it's just like you said, no one mentions all the other groups who were killed for no other reason than the way they were born.

Edit: I should have said most people.

Largely, the reason is because we in the west can identify with the Germans of the thirties and forties, we can identify with their culture, and we recognize the mechanisms of state and industrial techniques that they made use of to carry out such a genocide. For whatever reason, in the west we have a hard time identifying with black Africans running around with machetes and hacking up other black Africans in a weak-state country--perhaps because it seemed so chaotic and non-industrial. It seems almost crude, and we secretly say to ourselves "Pshah, we're white people, we could never do that!"

The Germans, though, were a white European industrial society with a very strong state went on a cold rampage, and used all of the elements chemical, industrial and medical technology, and no amount of effort can justify our saying that we could never do it--because people who look and act like us did.

Right, well when you stop pretending I am saying things that I am not, we can continue.

Then what does Zionism have to do with anything?

From your experience maybe, I don't think it's possible to debate who's experience is better. Also remember, the holocaust really was mainly about the Jews. The 'final solution' was a solution to what the Nazis call "the Jewish problem" or "the Jewish question". That's why Jews made up the vast majority of those killed in the holocaust. 'Jews' was what was fuelling the Nazi policies.
Mainly? Yes? Only? No.
Do I disagree with you either? No. Of course it was mainly about the Jews, but I disagree with the incessant harping on it because of that. Would the Holocaust be the event it is (not was because it has not passed into history like hundreds of other atrocities) if it was only homosexuals, disabled, gypsies and Poles?

Jews are annoyed at a guy who denies their ancestors were killed in a holocaust. I really don't see that as beating a dead horse.
I will admit I am lazy and don't care to look up some one being direct about it. So you can have it.

Then what does Zionism have to do with anything?
It was a side note and a different topic. But pro-Zionist hardliners have the Holocaust to hide their policies behind. It and the Arab-Israeli War.

Why does it seem like the people who are so pissy at Neo Art because he acts better then them are the ones who constantly say ignorant and stupid shit and get corrected on it?
I had assumed your first reply was a joke. I am beginning to to think otherwise and think my point has been proven within 1 post.

Mainly? Yes? Only? No.
Do I disagree with you either? No. Of course it was mainly about the Jews, but I disagree with the incessant harping on it because of that. Would the Holocaust be the event it is (not was because it has not passed into history like hundreds of other atrocities) if it was only homosexuals, disabled, gypsies and Poles?


It would be different, but I don't think it would be viewed as any less tragic.

Why does it seem like the people who are so pissy at Neo Art because he acts better then them are the ones who constantly say ignorant and stupid shit and get corrected on it?
I say ignorant and stupid crap?:confused:

Please, show me where. (No digging up posts before my switch of opinion on abortion,and nothing from the election please. We were all being idiots then. :tongue:)
Largely, the reason is because we in the west can identify with the Germans of the thirties and forties, we can identify with their culture, and we recognize the mechanisms of state and industrial techniques that they made use of to carry out such a genocide. For whatever reason, in the west we have a hard time identifying with black Africans running around with machetes and hacking up other black Africans in a weak-state country--perhaps because it seemed so chaotic and non-industrial. It seems almost crude, and we secretly say to ourselves "Pshah, we're white people, we could never do that!"

The Germans, though, were a white European industrial society with a very strong state went on a cold rampage, and used all of the elements chemical, industrial and medical technology, and no amount of effort can justify our saying that we could never do it--because people who look and act like us did.
You're saying that many of us are subconsciously racist?

I had assumed your first reply was a joke. I am beginning to to think otherwise and think my point has been proven within 1 post.

Quite the persecution complex eh? My first post was a joke.

I say ignorant and stupid crap?:confused:

Please, show me where. (No digging up posts before my switch of opinion on abortion,and nothing from the election please. We were all being idiots then. :tongue:)


See almost every post you have to say about liberatrianism and the private vs public sector.

It would be different, but I don't think it would be viewed as any less tragic.

Never did I say it wasn't tragic. In fact I specifically said it was as tragedy. But it wouldn't have even half as much attention. It would be a footnote in history, like every other tragedy. Even still have national/international remembrance days. But it wouldn't be something the first world cries foul on national tv over for a week any time some one is being a dick.


You're saying that many of us are subconsciously racist?
I am. Logical conclusions don't just lead to being tired of hearing about the spectre of the Holocaust.

..will likely get deleted and prove my point.

Is this your admission that maybe you're sorta trolling, and that if the moderators do something about it, it totally supports your point that the dead horse of the Holocaust is being used by NSG moderators to oppress and silence people?

Relevant line: Stop beating the dead horse of the Holocaust. I have ceased to care.

Unfortunately for you, Neo Art's summation of this relevant line is all too accurate.


Now everyone from the Jews to moderate Christians to the Germans are up in arms and Merkel is calling for a denunciation of the Holocaust denial. My response: What the fuck for? The Holocaust happened. It's over. The end. I am tired of people beating that dead horse, especially the Germans and pro-Zionist Jews.


Oh, so it's OK if I, as a non-Zionist Jew, can mention the Holocaust? Whew thanks.

The Holocaust happened, and it's over, but Holocaust denial is happening, and it's relevant to mention the Holocaust when speaking of Holocaust deniers.

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany. This isn't just "pro-Zionist Jews" just beating a dead horse pointlessly as you seem to suggest.

Don't get me wrong here, the Holocaust was a horrible massacre of an innocent peoples. But give me a god damn break. The Holocaust did not just happen to Jews, it included hundreds of thousands, or more, of homosexuals, Roma gypsies, Freemasons, and the disabled. But does anyone bandy about that information?

This is what's called a strawman.

Do the homosexuals hang up the dead horse of the Holocaust in San Francisco and beat it when things don't go their way?

Oh, so now your claim is that the pro-Zionist Jews are just selfish whiners manipulating people with the Holocaust. All of which is supposed to mean no one should care about the Holocaust, or at least its supposed to legitimize your own personal lack of care.

No they don't or they wouldn't be a belittled portion of society.

Erm, what?

The Soviets carried out equally large, if not larger, genocides. Or the Rwanda genocide of the Tutsi? Not as many people but likely a larger percent of the population. But who says anything about those?

Is the answer to this question supposed to be "nobody" so that your argument works? Unfortunately that isn't the case, so it doesn't.

But say one thing the wrong way and everyone and their mom goes in front a camera and decries the improper respect given to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust. No one specifically says the Jews, but we all know that's who they are talking about realistically. And I am damn tired of it.

Oh, right. No one specifically says the Jews, but they mean the Jews anyway (you know this due to telepathy), and this means the Jews are selfish. I'm very convinced!

Now here's this gem:

The Holocaust should be treated like a tragedy, but one that is a footnote in history like other tragedies. It shouldn't be forgotten, but it shouldn't be dragged out and beaten every time some one asininely assists it didn't happen/wasn't as horrible or some one defames the Jews.

Right, so people should be free to deny the Holocaust, but no one dare "beats the horse" by responding to it? Freedom of speech for Holocaust deniers, and anyone else just STFU cuz TPH is tired of it?

I want my time back.

See almost every post you have to say about liberatrianism and the private vs public sector.

I dropped that long before I changed my views on abortion. And what's so bad about having less government control?

Yeah, uh, no. I'm sorry that you're bored, TPH, but I don't think the whole world is going to stop talking about the Holocaust just to suit you. It's history. It's relatively recent history. It was a particularly striking example of a kind of atrocity that does not get enough attention in both education and politics. And there are crazy motherfuckers out there who try to deny it happened at all.

So, yeah, the Holocaust is on the topic list for a reason. It's going to stay there. If you don't like it, change the channel

You're saying that many of us are subconsciously racist?

I'd say ethnocentric rather than racist.

Is this your admission that maybe you're sorta trolling, and that if the moderators do something about it, it totally supports your point that the dead horse of the Holocaust is being used by NSG moderators to oppress and silence people?
Not quite. Not an incorrect summation in part but not what I meant. I am not meaning to troll, but will people knee-jerk it as trolling because of the subject matter and the opinion? Possibly. Could it get deleted for that? Perhaps

The Holocaust happened, and it's over, but Holocaust denial is happening, and it's relevant to mention the Holocaust when speaking of Holocaust deniers.
Lots of stupid people say lots of stupid shit. Should the entire world raise a cry when they do?

Maybe you aren't aware of this, but Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany.
I see you missed my final paragraph.

This is what's called a strawman.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
On what grounds?

Oh, so now your claim is that the pro-Zionist Jews are just selfish whiners manipulating people with the Holocaust. All of which is supposed to mean no one should care about the Holocaust, or at least its supposed to legitimize your own personal lack of care.
That is a straw man.

Erm, what?
You can only jump to exaggerated conclusions in relation to Jews? I would have figured you would have gotten that one.


Is the answer to this question supposed to be "nobody" so that your argument works? Unfortunately that isn't the case, so it doesn't.
No, the answer is "Maybe history buffs and human rights activists." You know, the next sentence.


Oh, right. No one specifically says the Jews, but they mean the Jews anyway (you know this due to telepathy), and this means the Jews are selfish. I'm very convinced!
I take it you spent lots of money building that bridge across the chasm of logic you needed to cross?

Right, so people should be free to deny the Holocaust,
Any why not? Lots of stupid people say stupid shit. No one stops them. It's not an incitement to riot or violence. There is nothing inherently about the statement that promotes violence, even against Jews. However, most likely people who present that position are antisemites who may or may not harbor a hatred for Jews and wish to harm them, but "The holocaust didn't happen" does not imply something should be done to/about Jews, and or homosexuals/the disabled/gypsies/et al.

but no one dare "beats the horse" by responding to it?
Responding to it by going on tv and demanding an apology from anyone related to the person?

Freedom of speech for Holocaust deniers, and anyone else just STFU cuz TPH is tired of it?
Where are the world wide news articles for people demanding recognition of their denial of the Holocaust.

I want my time back.
Too bad.

Yeah, uh, no. I'm sorry that you're bored, TPH, but I don't think the whole world is going to stop talking about the Holocaust just to suit you. It's history. It's relatively recent history. It was a particularly striking example of a kind of atrocity that does not get enough attention in both education and politics. And there are crazy motherfuckers out there who try to deny it happened at all.

So, yeah, the Holocaust is on the topic list for a reason. It's going to stay there. If you don't like it, change the channel
So? Crazy people think that the government is tapping into the fillings in their teeth to spy on them. And the Holocaust doesn't get enough attention in education or politics? I assume you mean on Mars. African genocides get even less attention in education, politics, or even news coverage. The Holocaust is a tragedy that happened in recent history, slightly newer than some genocides and far older than other genocides.

How many things could I declare didn't happen that would turn into such a fiery discussion of page/be locked as fast as the Holocaust.

Never did I say it wasn't tragic. In fact I specifically said it was as tragedy. But it wouldn't have even half as much attention. It would be a footnote in history, like every other tragedy. Even still have national/international remembrance days. But it wouldn't be something the first world cries foul on national tv over for a week any time some one is being a dick.


I really see absolutely no compelling reason to agree here. Are you talking about the same numbers that were killed in the holocaust? Or are you talking about simply the number of people killed minus the Jews?

I really see absolutely no compelling reason to agree here. Are you talking about the same numbers that were killed in the holocaust? Or are you talking about simply the number of people killed minus the Jews?
According to the individually cited Wikipedia table, the Jews were half the people killed in the Holocaust. 75% if we exclude the Soviet POWs, which wouldn't hurt.
Also, feel free to check that as I can't add.

According to the individually cited Wikipedia table, the Jews were half the people killed in the Holocaust. 75% if we exclude the Soviet POWs, which wouldn't hurt.
Also, feel free to check that as I can't add.

What I mean is, are you envisioning a scenario where a near equal number of people are killed, except this time none of them are Jews? In fact forget that anyway, if you aren't, that wouldn't change me not agreeing.

What I mean is, are you envisioning a scenario where a near equal number of people are killed, except this time none of them are Jews? In fact forget that anyway, if you aren't, that wouldn't change me not agreeing.
I wasn't, but I would posit that.

So? Crazy people think that the government is tapping into the fillings in their teeth to spy on them. And the Holocaust doesn't get enough attention in education or politics? I assume you mean on Mars. African genocides get even less attention in education, politics, or even news coverage. The Holocaust is a tragedy that happened in recent history, slightly newer than some genocides and far older than other genocides.

How many things could I declare didn't happen that would turn into such a fiery discussion of page/be locked as fast as the Holocaust.
In my history class we spent an 80 minute period on the genocide in Darfur, watched a forty minute video on the Rwandan genocide, a video on Soviet era starvation and the gulags plus the purges and another video of equal length on the pot Pol Massacre. We also discussed at length the Bosnian conflict. We watched a video of equal length on the holocaust, while we spend a much longer time studying the background of the holocaust other genocides got just as much or even more attention.
In terms of news coverage/media I find that I here much more about Sudan then the holocaust. The holocaust is rarely mentioned in news coverage I watch except as a reference, because everyone knows it.
Honestly, I don't find that the holocaust is discussed all that much and when it is denied the reason people get so uptight is more about the agenda of the denier. They always have some anti-Jew/pro-fascist agenda and I think the reaction is just as much about that as the factual error.

Not quite. Not an incorrect summation in part but not what I meant. I am not meaning to troll, but will people knee-jerk it as trolling because of the subject matter and the opinion? Possibly. Could it get deleted for that? Perhaps

You seemed to rather assume it was and that somehow it would prove your point. But if the NSG moderators were to delete the thread (unlikely, they would close it if anything) it would be for violation of site rules and not because the pro-Zionist Jews are doing anything.

Lots of stupid people say lots of stupid shit. Should the entire world raise a cry when they do?

Ideally, yes. I at least am not going to just shut up because my response to a stupid argument touches on the subject nature of said stupid argument, a subject which you personally don't like hearing about.

I see you missed my final paragraph.

Um, you mean this:

People are welcome to offer their opinions, though I imagine moderation will be full of trolling and antisemitism and god knows what before too long.

Yeah I read it the first time. But. How is that at all relevant to Holocaust denial being a crime in Germany?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
On what grounds?

Because no one is saying "the Holocaust only happened to Jews." No one here, not Merkel, no one. You are arguing against a point that no one made except in your own imagination.

That is a straw man.

on what grounds?

You can only jump to exaggerated conclusions in relation to Jews? I would have figured you would have gotten that one.

Um, your conclusion about homosexuals being a "belittled group" was your conclusion, not mine. It was based on your own stupid reasoning, not mine. What is there to "get?" What's the big mystery behind your amazing ability to make stupid arguments?

No, the answer is "Maybe history buffs and human rights activists." You know, the next sentence.

They're as good as nobody.

I take it you spent lots of money building that bridge across the chasm of logic you needed to cross?

Nope, reading your post costs me not a single penny.


Any why not? Lots of stupid people say stupid shit. No one stops them.

You are arguing that responding to said stupid shit (holocaust denial) is equivalent to "beating the dead horse" of the Holocaust. Now you're arguing that the Holocaust denial laws should be repealed.


Responding to it by going on tv and demanding an apology from anyone related to the person?

Since Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany, and the 'persons' in question are, you know, goverment representatives, it's relevant. You're talking about a persecution mentality that, frankly, you epitomize (with your ZOMG TEH MODS ARE GOING TO CENSOR ME! bit) more than anyone I can see.


Too bad.

Yes. True. Time wasted here cannot be gotten back. Well you've argued one thing successfully, at any rate.

Largely, the reason is because we in the west can identify with the Germans of the thirties and forties, we can identify with their culture, and we recognize the mechanisms of state and industrial techniques that they made use of to carry out such a genocide. For whatever reason, in the west we have a hard time identifying with black Africans running around with machetes and hacking up other black Africans in a weak-state country--perhaps because it seemed so chaotic and non-industrial. It seems almost crude, and we secretly say to ourselves "Pshah, we're white people, we could never do that!"

The Germans, though, were a white European industrial society with a very strong state went on a cold rampage, and used all of the elements chemical, industrial and medical technology, and no amount of effort can justify our saying that we could never do it--because people who look and act like us did.

This is the reason. Because we as a people cannot comprehend that a race that we perceived as civilised, cultured, admirable used the very tools that in our minds are the hallmarks of civilisation and progress to ruthlessly slaughter millions of people.

The gypsies and other victims don't get as much attention because the gypsies were and still are hated and reviled by all of Europe, because there weren't as many of them, and because they did not have the dispersion that Jews had. People are still trying to eradicate homosexuality from our society. Catholics were not sepcifically targeted. People still hate communism. Need I go on?

So? Crazy people think that the government is tapping into the fillings in their teeth to spy on them. And the Holocaust doesn't get enough attention in education or politics? I assume you mean on Mars. African genocides get even less attention in education, politics, or even news coverage. The Holocaust is a tragedy that happened in recent history, slightly newer than some genocides and far older than other genocides.

How many things could I declare didn't happen that would turn into such a fiery discussion of page/be locked as fast as the Holocaust.
You know what's funny about you? You've got your head so far up your pet issue of the day that you fail to read the words in the sentences you respond to. I specifically said that the Holocaust is a striking example of a kind of atrocity that does not get enough attention. Do you think you can read that this time and figure out that I was not saying the Holocaust itself doesn't get enough attention, but that the kind of atrocity -- i.e. genocide -- doesn't?

Oh, and fyi, your little corner of the world is not the only little corner there is. The Holocaust itself, apparently, is still barely mentioned in the school systems of former Soviet block countries and some parts of Asia as well. So yeah, there is still a reason to talk about it. Like I said.

But all that is beside the point of my post which was: Nobody cares what you're bored with, so learn to cope.

Ideally, yes. I at least am not going to just shut up because my response to a stupid argument touches on the subject nature of said stupid argument, a subject which you personally don't like hearing about.
I didn't say you should. I am saying it gets far too much coverage.

Yeah I read it the first time. But. How is that at all relevant to Holocaust denial being a crime in Germany?
That was a sentence. This is a paragraph
And Merkel, really. Germany is almost about to be pushed off the cliff of "those who forget history are doomed to repeat it" with the shadow of the Holocaust behind it driving a governmental suppression of anything remotely related to Nazism only to serve as cover for the rise of Neo-Nazism. The Holocaust should be treated like a tragedy, but one that is a footnote in history like other tragedies. It shouldn't be forgotten, but it shouldn't be dragged out and beaten every time some one asininely assists it didn't happen/wasn't as horrible or some one defames the Jews.
Which should save only to result in serving as a cover for the rise of Neo-Nazism.

Because no one is saying "the Holocaust only happened to Jews." No one here, not Merkel, no one. You are arguing against a point that no one made except in your own imagination.
Not directly, no.

on what grounds?
The definition of a strawman itself :rolleyes:


Um, your conclusion about homosexuals being a "belittled group" was your conclusion, not mine. It was based on your own stupid reasoning, not mine. What is there to "get?" What's the big mystery behind your amazing ability to make stupid arguments?
The implication was that if homosexuals had the shadow of the Holocaust behind them, they still wouldn't be taking crap.

They're as good as nobody.
Oh yes, I am the only person making asinine statements to put forward my position :rolleyes:


You are arguing that responding to said stupid shit (holocaust denial) is equivalent to "beating the dead horse" of the Holocaust. Now you're arguing that the Holocaust denial laws should be repealed.
No, I am saying the whole world jumping up all at once to condemn anyone related to the denier at the sneeze of Holocaust denial is beating a dead horse.
And why shouldn't they be repealed?

Since Holocaust denial is a crime in Germany, and the 'persons' in question are, you know, goverment representatives, it's relevant.
Lots of things are legal in the US but that doesn't give any politicians the right to go on tv and demand apologies for people in other country doing illegal things. How absurd would it be for Obama to go on tv and demand apologies for Janet Jackson going topless in Germany?

You're continued assertion that it shouldn't, in addition to you specifically made a point to say you are Jewish, really does nothing to disprove any assertion I have made, however ridiculous, that a number of Jews are hiding their actions behind the spectre of the Holocaust.

You know what's funny about you? You've got your head so far up your pet issue of the day that you fail to read the words in the sentences you respond to. I specifically said that the Holocaust is a striking example of a kind of atrocity that does not get enough attention. Do you think you can read that this time and figure out that I was not saying the Holocaust itself doesn't get enough attention, but that the kind of atrocity -- i.e. genocide -- doesn't?
Say what you mean.

The Holocaust itself, apparently, is still barely mentioned in the school systems of former Soviet block countries and some parts of Asia as well.
Lots of things are not taught in places with poor/dictatorial government approved text books and education.

Hey guys, I think we should all stop talking about the holocaust so much!

That's why I made a thread about it.

And keep talking about it...

Say what you mean.


Lots of things are not taught in places with poor/dictatorial government approved text books and education.
I did say what I mean. Twice.

I did say what I mean. Twice.

I got it the second time. I was talking about the first time.

Hey guys, I think we should all stop talking about the holocaust so much!

That's why I made a thread about it.

And keep talking about it...
Neo, get serious, will you? How the hell is he supposed to make the whole Holocaust issue revolve around him, if he stops spinning the Holocaust issue?

I got it the second time. I was talking about the first time.
I used nearly the exact same words. Maybe if you had read it the first time, you would have understood it the first time.

Hey guys, I think we should all stop talking about the holocaust so much!

That's why I made a thread about it.

And keep talking about it...

That reminds me, whenever you can, ask Nanatsu no Tsuki why she keeps bringing up the British economy.

(Some dude in another thread brought up the British economy to Nan, she responded, and he apparently forgot that he had brought up and said "Who said anything about the British economy?"...she was naturally perplexed, and we should keep it up.)

Lots of things are not taught in places with poor/dictatorial government approved text books and education.

And that's the model we should follow.

And while we're at it, let's all trim our hair in accordance with socialist lifestyle! (2 points for the reference).

And this has a negative impact on your personal life in what way, exactly?

It's funny how often people who "aren't biggots!!" rant about how they wish people would stop talking about the Holocaust/slavery/pick-your-poison because it "annoys" them. Because they think anonymous masses are "trying to make them feel guilty." Oh, how upsetting. Your parents died on a train to Poland, but that was, like, decades ago, stop bringing it up already! You're infringing on my right to ignore things I don't want to know about!

Where are the world wide news articles for people demanding recognition of their denial of the Holocaust.

The same vault where they keep the articles demanding recognition of the denial of gravity.

And this has a negative impact on your personal life in what way, exactly?

It's funny how often people who "aren't biggots!!" rant about how they wish people would stop talking about the Holocaust/slavery/pick-your-poison because it "annoys" them. Because they think anonymous masses are "trying to make them feel guilty." Oh, how upsetting. Your parents died on a train to Poland, but that was, like, decades ago, stop bringing it up already! You're infringing on my right to ignore things I don't want to know about!
I think you have done the best at twisting what I said into a warped, thinly veiled insult while simultaneously ignoring everything my said, and proving my point.

And don't get me started about the spectre of racism lurking behind the ridiculous "thug" culture in America as a shield for otherwise unacceptable actions.

And this has a negative impact on your personal life in what way, exactly?

It's funny how often people who "aren't biggots!!" rant about how they wish people would stop talking about the Holocaust/slavery/pick-your-poison because it "annoys" them. Because they think anonymous masses are "trying to make them feel guilty." Oh, how upsetting. Your parents died on a train to Poland, but that was, like, decades ago, stop bringing it up already! You're infringing on my right to ignore things I don't want to know about!

You've proved his point, y'know.

The holocaust is significant in the sense that it was a scientifically organized assault on the humanity of millions of people. Subsequent and previous genocides were not so well constructed or terribly carried out.

You've proved his point, y'know.
He doesn't have a point, other than that he doesn't like it when other people pooh-pooh his ridiculous complaints about what he's bored with.

You've proved his point, y'know.

His point was that he likes to whine about not liking to hear about the Holocaust. He did an adequate job of proving that himself.

The holocaust is significant in the sense that it was a scientifically organized assault on the humanity of millions of people. Subsequent and previous genocides were not so well constructed or terribly carried out.

So genocides are only globally important if they are scientifically organized? I'll be damned.

I think you have done the best at twisting what I said into a warped, thinly veiled insult while simultaneously ignoring everything my said, and proving my point.

And don't get me started about the spectre of racism lurking behind the ridiculous "thug" culture in America as a shield for otherwise unacceptable actions.

I'm sorry, it wasn't meant to be veiled at all.

...I have absolutely no idea what you're even attempting to get at in the second paragraph. Nor do I care.

The holocaust is significant in the sense that it was a scientifically organized assault on the humanity of millions of people. Subsequent and previous genocides were not so well constructed or terribly carried out.
This. ^^ There is a social psychological dynamic to the Holocaust that may have happened before, but never so clearly and observably, and never so well documented (by the Nazis themselves). While the type of atrocity that was committed in the Holocaust was nothing new or unique, the manner of it was, and it is a vital tool for understanding how this kind of thing can happen.

EDIT: And that is why we're not going to stop talking about it, no matter how loudly TPH complains.

So genocides are only globally important if they are scientifically organized? I'll be damned.

Here's a question: Instead of ranting about all the attention the Holocaust does get, why don't you expend your energy bringing more attention to other genocides? If that's really what bothers you so much.

He doesn't have a point, other than that he doesn't like it when other people pooh-pooh his ridiculous complaints about what he's bored with.

These inane dismissals and thinly veiled insults serve to prove the point that the Holocaust has been hyped to the point of absurdity with threat of losing its actual importance. "He said something bad about the Holocaust! He's an antisemitic." "He is disagreeing about the use of the Holocaust as a dead horse to back up global crap! He's just whining!"

Here's a question: Instead of ranting about all the attention the Holocaust does get, why don't you expend your energy bringing more attention to other genocides? If that's really what bothers you so much.
Because you present an excellent example of avoiding the issue.

And this has a negative impact on your personal life in what way, exactly?

So, Pantless was in Rawalpindi attending the Ninth Conference of the Pakistan Society for Biochemistry & Molecular Biology at Pir Mehr Ali Shah-Arid Agriculture University, and he met Scarlett Johansson, who was there filming her next feature, "Shazia", a film about honor killings directed by Sofia Coppola and co-starring Keanu Reeves as the American Born Cab Driver Living in Pakistan who defends Shazia from a gang rape, but then drives her to the hospital alone, so her father, an ultra-traditional rural tribal leader played by Brian Dennehy, kills her.

Pantless and Scarlett really hit it off, and they were making out in their hotel's Business Center (a small closet with a fax machine and half a pad of sticky notes). They were about to go find out how hard it is to get a condom in Pakistan when Scarlett mentioned that she needed to grab her laptop from the room, because she had left it running with a movie she got from NetFlix the morning before she had left New York.

Pantless said "What movie?" and she said "Schindler's List...can you believe I haven't seen it all the way through yet?"

So Pantless went back to the conference alone.

This. ^^ There is a social psychological dynamic to the Holocaust that may have happened before, but never so clearly and observably, and never so well documented (by the Nazis themselves). While the type of atrocity that was committed in the Holocaust was nothing new or unique, the manner of it was, and it is a vital tool for understanding how this kind of thing can happen.

EDIT: And that is why we're not going to stop talking about it, no matter how loudly TPH complains.
Again you manage to confuse "education" and "using the Holocaust to beat people over the head." Which is a running trend in this thread.

So, Pantless was in Rawalpindi attending the Ninth Conference of the Pakistan Society for Biochemistry & Molecular Biology at Pir Mehr Ali Shah-Arid Agriculture University, and he met Scarlett Johansson, who was there filming her next feature, "Shazia", a film about honor killings directed by Sofia Coppola and co-starring Keanu Reeves as the American Born Cab Driver Living in Pakistan who defends Shazia from a gang rape, but then drives her to the hospital alone, so her father, an ultra-traditional rural tribal leader played by Brian Dennehy, kills her.

Pantless and Scarlett really hit it off, and they were making out in their hotel's Business Center (a small closet with a fax machine and half a pad of sticky notes). They were about to go find out how hard it is to get a condom in Pakistan when Scarlett mentioned that she needed to grab her laptop from the room, because she had left it running with a movie she got from NetFlix the morning before she had left New York.

Pantless said "What movie?" and she said "Schindler's List...can you believe I haven't seen it all the way through yet?"

So Pantless went back to the conference alone.
I don't even know what to say to this.

These inane dismissals and thinly veiled insults serve to prove the point that the Holocaust has been hyped to the point of absurdity with threat of losing its actual importance. "He said something bad about the Holocaust! He's an antisemitic." "He is disagreeing about the use of the Holocaust as a dead horse to back up global crap! He's just whining!"

Dismissals of your arguments prove that the Holocaust is "overhyped"? My, that's some opinion you have of your own opinions!

Denying the Holocaust makes as much scientific sense as denying evolution exists. When one makes such an assertion in the face of overwhelming evidence, there is generally a reason behind it. If you have a better theory than racism, please present it.

Again you manage to confuse "education" and "using the Holocaust to beat people over the head." Which is a running trend in this thread.
No, I don't confuse "education" with "beating people over the head." I also don't confuse a real debate topic with you just making shit up. Nobody is getting beaten over the head with the Holocaust except Holocaust deniers, and they're liars, so who cares?

Because you present an excellent example of avoiding the issue.

I thought the issue was that the Holocaust got too much attention compared to other genocides/tragedies.

Dismissals of your arguments prove that the Holocaust is "overhyped"? My, that's some opinion you have of your own opinions!
Dismissals of my argument out of hand based on the topic of the arguments proves my argument, yes.

Denying the Holocaust makes as much scientific sense as denying evolution exists. When one makes such an assertion in the face of overwhelming evidence, there is generally a reason behind it. If you have a better theory than racism, please present it.
I agree. However it has nothing to do with anything I said or my original argument.

These inane dismissals and thinly veiled insults serve to prove the point that the Holocaust has been hyped to the point of absurdity with threat of losing its actual importance. "He said something bad about the Holocaust! He's an antisemitic." "He is disagreeing about the use of the Holocaust as a dead horse to back up global crap! He's just whining!"
You're funny. You know what our dismissals of you actually indicate? They indicate that we think you are full of crap. Not because of the Holocaust, but because of your own words.

So genocides are only globally important if they are scientifically organized? I'll be damned.
All genocides are organized according to a particular logic. The Holocaust is simply the most remarkable example (the culture and design of Nazi concentration camps, for instance, was unprecedented and has never been matched. Hopefully it never will be).
Have you done any serious research into what people went through? The psychological warfare that was inflicted upon the Nazi's victims was fucking intense, and most of the "survivors" never recovered.

So, Pantless was in Rawalpindi attending the Ninth Conference of the Pakistan Society for Biochemistry & Molecular Biology at Pir Mehr Ali Shah-Arid Agriculture University, and he met Scarlett Johansson, who was there filming her next feature, "Shazia", a film about honor killings directed by Sofia Coppola and co-starring Keanu Reeves as the American Born Cab Driver Living in Pakistan who defends Shazia from a gang rape, but then drives her to the hospital alone, so her father, an ultra-traditional rural tribal leader played by Brian Dennehy, kills her.

Pantless and Scarlett really hit it off, and they were making out in their hotel's Business Center (a small closet with a fax machine and half a pad of sticky notes). They were about to go find out how hard it is to get a condom in Pakistan when Scarlett mentioned that she needed to grab her laptop from the room, because she had left it running with a movie she got from NetFlix the morning before she had left New York.

Pantless said "What movie?" and she said "Schindler's List...can you believe I haven't seen it all the way through yet?"

So Pantless went back to the conference alone.
This explains everything.

I didn't say you should. I am saying it gets far too much coverage.

You mean like how people keep mentioning it and talking about it?

That was a sentence. This is a paragraph


Yes that was a sentence. I criticized the whole paragraph too, though.

Anyway, I'm not even sure what you mean by....

[quote]Which should save only to result in serving as a cover for the rise of Neo-Nazism.

But even you admit...


Not directly, no.

So no one is "directly" saying the Holocaust only affected Jews... but they're saying it anyway. Cuz you say so. Honestly, are you even being serious?

The definition of a strawman itself :rolleyes:

Well that's the definition of circular reasoning right there.

I meant in what way was what I said a strawman, and not essentially your point?

The implication was that if homosexuals had the shadow of the Holocaust behind them, they still wouldn't be taking crap.

You're still not making any sense here.

Oh yes, I am the only person making asinine statements to put forward my position :rolleyes:

I'm sure there are lots of people doing that in NSG, I do what I can to try and focus on one at a time since I'm still not omnipotent.

As far as your argument goes, 'history buffs and human rights activists' don't count. Hence, 'as good as nobody.' I mean unless you're complaining about history buffs and human rights activists mentioning the Holocaust too?

No, I am saying the whole world jumping up all at once to condemn anyone related to the denier at the sneeze of Holocaust denial is beating a dead horse.

And I'm saying that's not an accurate depiction of the case you cited. This wasn't "anyone related to the denier," and Holocaust denial is Holocaust denial, it's not "the sneeze of Holocaust denial." And the "whole world" ain't "jumping" either.

And why shouldn't they be repealed?

Maybe they should, but until they are they're there, and it's relevant and in fact, to be expected, to discuss the subject of politicians breaking the law or not. Hell, Obama got so much shit because of his association with Bill Ayers, and that wasn't even to do with the Holocaust.

Lots of things are legal in the US but that doesn't give any politicians the right to go on tv and demand apologies for people in other country doing illegal things. How absurd would it be for Obama to go on tv and demand apologies for Janet Jackson going topless in Germany?

That would be absurd. But that's not the case and this case is not so absurd as that.

You're continued assertion that it shouldn't, in addition to you specifically made a point to say you are Jewish, really does nothing to disprove any assertion I have made, however ridiculous, that a number of Jews are hiding their actions behind the spectre of the Holocaust.

I guess I mentioned that because it seems like you just wanted to rant about "pro Zionist Jews" and your frankly skewed perceptions of 'them' and how mention of the Holocaust (in response to Holocaust denial) is "beating a dead horse," and this all smells rather anti-semitic to me. I'm clued in by the lack of real reasoning and the abundance of angry opinion about, now, "a number of Jews."

And I know you're going to go, "SEE? I TOLD YOU SO!" but you know, if the shoe fits...

This explains everything.

It does. It really does.

There is one central fulcrum of this issue upon which we all agree.

People are constantly bringing up the Holocaust. Its taught in schools. Its discussed in film and literature. Its on the drivers license test for the state of Minnesota. Obama referenced it 11 times during his inauguration speech. It is the sole subject of discussion in the undergraduate marketing classes of every accredited university in the United States and Europe. Its major points are printed on the background on the flags of Canada, Belgium, and Japan. Its in the wedding vows administered by clergy of every major church, synagogue, mosque, and Scientology Advanced Tech Learning Center in the English speaking world. You can't escape it. Its a dead horse.

I mean, even on nationstates, somebody is making a thread about it...

All genocides are organized according to a particular logic. The Holocaust is simply the most remarkable example (the culture and design of Nazi concentration camps, for instance, was unprecedented and has never been matched. Hopefully it never will be).
Fair enough.

Have you done any serious research into what people went through? The psychological warfare that was inflicted upon the Nazi's victims was fucking intense, and most of the "survivors" never recovered.
Tea. China. What?

It does. It really does.

There is one central fulcrum of this issue upon which we all agree.

People are constantly bringing up the Holocaust. Its taught in schools. Its discussed in film and literature. Its on the drivers license test for the state of Minnesota. Obama referenced it 11 times during his inauguration speech. It is the sole subject of discussion in the undergraduate marketing classes of every accredited university in the United States and Europe. Its major points are printed on the background on the flags of Canada, Belgium, and Japan. Its in the wedding vows administered by clergy of every major church, synagogue, mosque, and Scientology Advanced Tech Learning Center in the English speaking world. You can't escape it. Its a dead horse.
And all of it just to keep TPH from banging Scarlett Johansen. Damn, we are BASTARDS!!!

I mean, even on nationstates, somebody is making a thread about it...
*looks at author of thread.* What a bastard. Why doesn't he want to see TPH get laid?

Fair enough.


Tea. China. What?

Fiddlebottoms was badly injured on December 4, 1988 in a motorcycle accident and suffered appreciable brain damage.

He thus seems to think that those aspects of an event that are of a distinctive character and historical magnitude so as to saliently illustrate horrific inhumanity might thus warrant proportionate attention.

Its called Larry's Syndrome.

And I know you're going to go, "SEE? I TOLD YOU SO!" but you know, if the shoe fits...

you know what I hate? those fucking jews. Those big nosed greedy motherfucking jews. And because of those god damned jews, I can't even say something like that without being accused of being anti-semetic.

I meant in what way was what I said a strawman, and not essentially your point?
"Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent's actual position has been refuted"
The definition of a strawman.

As far as your argument goes, 'history buffs and human rights activists' don't count.
Based on... your interpretation of my statement?


I guess I mentioned that because it seems like you just wanted to rant about "pro Zionist Jews" and your frankly skewed perceptions of 'them' and how mention of the Holocaust (in response to Holocaust denial) is "beating a dead horse," and this all smells rather anti-semitic to me. I'm clued in by the lack of real reasoning and the abundance of angry opinion about, now, "a number of Jews."

And I know you're going to go, "SEE? I TOLD YOU SO!" but you know, if the shoe fits...
Yes, I am, because I did. Question pro-zionist Judaism? Get labeled an antisemite. Question the hauling out of the Holocaust for the sole reason of harping on it or using it as a shield of actions? Antisemitism. That is the kind of thing I am talking about. Go around accusing people of antisemitism with the Holocaust as a shield for it.

And all of it just to keep TPH from banging Scarlett Johansen. Damn, we are BASTARDS!!!

*looks at author of thread.* What a bastard. Why doesn't he want to see TPH get laid?

See, you're referencing the thread. The thread is about the holocaust. Why can't you just leave it alone?

I mean, for Christ sake, "Lost" is back on and you want to talk about the Holocaust.

See, you're referencing the thread. The thread is about the holocaust. Why can't you just leave it alone?

I mean, for Christ sake, "Lost" is back on and you want to talk about the Holocaust.
It's a scab. I have to pick it.

you know what I hate? those fucking jews. Those big nosed greedy motherfucking jews. And because of those god damned jews, I can't even say something like that without being accused of being anti-semetic.

Hardy har, Neo Art, but you're frequently guilty of exactly what the OP is talking about.


You remember that time we were in Prague trying to work out that visa issue for that grad student friend of mine in the physics department, and while we were there, that old dude gave us directions to the knocking shop, and when he pointed, he had numbers tattooed on his arm, and I asked what the fuck, is it some kind of geriatric gang or something, and you said "No, dude, he was in the camps. The holocaust."

I mean shit, dude, leave the dead horse alone.

Now this is just rampant idiocy.

Now this is just rampant idiocy.

http://www.coedhumor.com/images/posters/600/TFN4VPYFV7VKEIUTV4LVQRC4K742S4AW.jpg

you know what I hate? those fucking jews. Those big nosed greedy motherfucking jews. And because of those god damned jews, I can't even say something like that without being accused of being anti-semetic.http://i39.tinypic.com/vryqno.jpg

:D

Now this is just rampant idiocy.

NOW it is?

Now this is just rampant idiocy.
And guess who started it? Seriously, your statements about Zionists and the anti-denial laws are similar to the garbage I've heard spewed from KKK members and Neo-Nazis. And yes, all of those other genocides, are talked about, and taught. The Holocaust is the only one where you can still visit the camps, and was well documented by the Nazis during and the Americans at the end of everything. It's used primarily as a benchmark. And I have spent a lot of time with many Jewish kids, I grew up with a large Jewish community, many of them with ties to Israel, and not a single person has ever blamed any current hardship, indecision, or anything on the holocaust. I understand your point. But your method of bringing it to the table is idiotic and invalid at best. And that doesn't mean I agree, I just have this amazing ability to actually understand what's being said to me. But what the pope did was stupid, and fucked up. Someone needed to call them out on it. And you're bitching because someone did?
And seriously, explain this whole, "4th Reich is coming because they adamantly won't deny the holocaust!" nonsense. I don't see the connection, and you could just label that as being racist against Germans. I'm not, but it could easily be done.

EDIT: and as far as the straw hat is concerned, you both are doing it, then playing the "I know you are but what am I" game.

Fair enough.


Tea. China. What?
Oh, wow, man. I'm like, so refuted now. It's just like, I don't know, man.

Okay, I have a hypothesis. Its thin. Its thinner than Lara Flynn Boyle in a 69 with Kate Moss. But hear me out...

The_pantless_hero....is Valentasia. I don't remember when or where, but I remember Valentasia comparing the quashing of Scientology in Germany to the Holocaust. He called it "The Thought Holocaust in Germany against Scientology" or something.

Pantless is using reverse psychology, knowing that bringing up the Holocaust to decry the Holocaust as a dead horse would obviously engender discussion of the holocaust...and thats exactly what he wants.

He wants the Holocaust to get MORE attention, so that he can associate it with Germany's examination of Scientology as a "thought holocaust."

Okay, I have a hypothesis. Its thin. Its thinner than Lara Flynn Boyle in a 69 with Kate Moss. But hear me out...

The_pantless_hero....is Valentasia. I don't remember when or where, but I remember Valentasia comparing the quashing of Scientology in Germany to the Holocaust. He called it "The Thought Holocaust in Germany against Scientology" or something.

Pantless is using reverse psychology, knowing that bringing up the Holocaust to decry the Holocaust as a dead horse would obviously engender discussion of the holocaust...and thats exactly what he wants.

He wants the Holocaust to get MORE attention, so that he can associate it with Germany's examination of Scientology as a "thought holocaust."

But... this would mean that Pantless, who is secretly Valentasia, is actually a scientologist.

Wonder if TPH = Tom Cruise?

But... this would mean that Pantless, who is secretly Valentasia, is actually a scientologist.

Wonder if TPH = Tom Cruise?

Valentasia says he left Scientology to form his own religion about the moon or something.

Tom Cruise always wanted to kill Hitler, ever since he was a child. That should make him likable now, apparently, I'm to understand, evidently, I'm told.

And guess who started it? Seriously, your statements about Zionists and the anti-denial laws are similar to the garbage I've heard spewed from KKK members and Neo-Nazis.
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/guilt-by-association.html

Zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is a legitimate political movement. The assertion that anyone who states that there do exist zionist hardliners is an antisemite is beyond absurd. It only serves to diminish the argument of the person who puts forth the assertion and just lends to my position that the whole thing has been hyped beyond absurdity to the point of diminishing it. But the people hiding behind the Holocaust get to point to Nazis and the KKK and no one is the wiser or thinks twice about the ridiculousness of it all.

And oh no, I am not vehemently opposing the ban of speech that doesn't inherently incite violence against anyone! "The Holocaust didn't happen/The Holocaust wasn't as bad as they say." That should be banned why? Because it is stupid? Of course it is, but alot of other things are stupid and arn't banned. In fact, alot of other things should be banned that arn't despite being stupid and practically suggesting violence. I am hardly the bastion of free speech support, but this doesn't make sense to me.

And I have spent a lot of time with many Jewish kids, I grew up with a large Jewish community, many of them with ties to Israel, and not a single person has ever blamed any current hardship, indecision, or anything on the holocaust. I understand your point. But your method of bringing it to the table is idiotic and invalid at best.
Had this paragraph been all you had said, you would have won. But instead, you had to go about and prove my point first.

And that doesn't mean I agree, I just have this amazing ability to actually understand what's being said to me. But what the pope did was stupid, and fucked up. Someone needed to call them out on it. And you're bitching because someone did?
I'm bitching because it was unneeded and because it was from the wrong direction. There was no need to call on the Pope to denounce the Holocaust because he "pardoned" a holocaust denier. It glosses over the fact that this Pope is toeing the edge of another schism in the Catholic church because of his radical views and actions, which have nothing to do with allowing a Holocaust denier to return.

And seriously, explain this whole, "4th Reich is coming because they adamantly won't deny the holocaust!" nonsense. I don't see the connection, and you could just label that as being racist against Germans.
The German ban against everything related to Nazism isn't serving them well was the point.

Zionism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism) is a legitimate political movement. The assertion that anyone who states that there do exist zionist hardliners is an antisemite is beyond absurd. It only serves to diminish the argument of the person who puts forth the assertion and just lends to my position that the whole thing has been hyped beyond absurdity to the point of diminishing it. But the people hiding behind the Holocaust get to point to Nazis and the KKK and no one is the wiser or thinks twice about the ridiculousness of it all.

This is the most powerful part of your argument. "The people hiding behind the Holocaust get to the to nazis and the KKK..."

That is so true. So powerful and true.

The "people hiding behind the holocaust" have set up death camps... they have invaded half a dozen countries...they burn crosses on people's lawns.

Absolutely. People hiding behind the holocaust have gotten to the point where they are like Nazis. Totally.







Totally.

I have no idea who you are nor do I care about your asinine gibberish.

Let me tell you how much I don't care about you or what you have to say!

You should familiarize yourself with the writings of eminent russian-american philosopher Ayn Rand.

Well I am glad I can help stroke your sense of self importance, Neo

Well I am glad I can help stroke your sense of self importance, Neo

why is nobody paying attention to me telling them I don't care what they say?!?!?!

The implication was that if homosexuals had the shadow of the Holocaust behind them, they still wouldn't be taking crap.

Uh, I don't know what planet you're living on, but we DO have the shadow of the Holocaust behind us, and we ARE still taking crap.
No, I am saying the whole world jumping up all at once to condemn anyone related to the denier at the sneeze of Holocaust denial is beating a dead horse.
No, the horse is not anywhere close to dead. "The past is not gone; it isn't even past" (Faulkner)
The factions who would like to repeat the Holocaust, and commit murders whenever they can get away with them, murders of Jews or homosexuals or gypsies or other subhumans, are still very active. Holocaust deniers are aiming to increase the respectability of such factions, and thus contribute to increasing the number of such murders. If you don't consider it your fight, then fine, just GO AWAY.

No, I am saying the whole world jumping up all at once to condemn anyone related to the denier at the sneeze of Holocaust denial is beating a dead horse.

Um... if there are people who deny the Holocaust, and there obviously are, how can condemning Holocaust denial be beating a dead horse?

Unless you're being literal and suggesting that the world always goes after their friends, relatives and associates, which is a bizarre notion to say the least.