NationStates Jolt Archive

And here we go:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1134323/Man-sentenced-30-lashes-flouting-smoking-ban-Saudi-Arabian-flight.html

A Sudanese man has been sentenced to 30 lashes for smoking on a domestic Saudi Arabian Airlines flight.

Wearing just a thin shirt, he will be flogged by a policeman wielding a slim reed who must hold a book under his arm to prevent him using too much force.

The strokes are not meant to leave permanent damage but to inflict painful welts that bleed and bruise.

The unnamed smoker refused repeated requests from cabin crew to stub out his cigarette on a flight to the Red Sea port of Jeddah from Qurayyat in northern Saudi Arabia.

He was arrested when the aircraft landed in Jeddah and promptly handed over to police.

The man apologised in court - and to prove his penitence presented evidence that he was attending a clinic to help him kick his heavy smoking habit.

But the judge was keen to make an example and gave a sentence designed to serve as a deterrent.

Smoking is banned in many public places in the conservative desert Kingdom but the law is often brazenly flouted.

Smoking was outlawed on domestic flights of Saudi’s national carrier SAA in 1987 and on overseas flights in 1999.

Last April a man caught smoking on a domestic Saudi flight was sentenced to 50 lashes. His cigarette triggered a smoke alarm that led to panic among passengers.

Under Saudi’s Sharia or Islamic law, flogging is common for a number morals offences ranging from adultery to being alone in the company of an unrelated person of the opposite sex.

But it can also be used at the discretion of judges as an alternative or addition to other punishments.

Sentences can range from dozens to thousands of lashes.

So, I hate smoking next to me as much as the next guy (assuming the next guy is a non-smoker), but this is ridiculous, and slightly hilarious.

Granted, the actual offense was not complying with the instructions of the flight crew, but still... at its core was that the person was smoking and refused to put it out.

Opinions?

He should have put out the stupid cigarette. I've much as I have wanted to d something similar to that to smokers, this is fucking ridiculous.

Wait....Saudis are Authoritarian!!!? :eek:

id take the lashes over A 2,200 dollar fine.

He should have put out the stupid cigarette. I've much as I have wanted to d something similar to that to smokers, this is fucking ridiculous.

It's more the lack of complying with the flight crew than the act of smoking that got him the lashes I think.

Wow, and I thought the Kuwaitis were harsh for fining you 50 KD for smoking in the airport...

I think it was more about not smoking on the plane than the Saudis not liking people smoking. One is not supposed to smoke on a plane.

Obligatory: The punishment should fit the crime, using violence to punish minor infractions is barbaric, etc etc etc.


Sometimes I really want to punch slow-walking people in the back of the head. When people can't master "stand right, walk left" on the escalators, I sometimes day-dream of pushing them. I do not act on these impulses, but I have them, and the part of my brain where these impulses live is also a part of the brain where whipping a rude jackass who refused to put out his smoke seems totally reasonable and fair.

Obligatory: The punishment should fit the crime, using violence to punish minor infractions is barbaric, etc etc etc.


Sometimes I really want to punch slow-walking people in the back of the head. When people can't master "stand right, walk left" on the escalators, I sometimes day-dream of pushing them. I do not act on these impulses, but I have them, and the part of my brain where these impulses live is also a part of the brain where whipping a rude jackass who refused to put out his smoke seems totally reasonable and fair.

Bottle talking about whipping people has me slightly turned on.


Oh. On topic. Who the fuck smokes on a plane?

I wonder which book they use?

Obligatory: The punishment should fit the crime, using violence to punish minor infractions is barbaric, etc etc etc.


Sometimes I really want to punch slow-walking people in the back of the head. When people can't master "stand right, walk left" on the escalators, I sometimes day-dream of pushing them. I do not act on these impulses, but I have them, and the part of my brain where these impulses live is also a part of the brain where whipping a rude jackass who refused to put out his smoke seems totally reasonable and fair.

Exactly this.

Question: Isn't smoking on a plane potentially dangerous?

Observation: It seems like he was punished more for refusing to comply with the flight crew than smoking per se. We may not flog a person in the United States for this kind of offense, but you can be sure that the air marshalls would definitely rough him up while apprehending him on the plane.

Question: Isn't smoking on a plane potentially dangerous?

Observation: It seems like he was punished more for refusing to comply with the flight crew than smoking per se. We may not flog a person in the United States for this kind of offense, but you can be sure that the air marshalls would definitely rough him up while apprehending him on the plane.

That, and I wonder if you would even be allowed to bring a lighter/matches on a plane.

Question: Isn't smoking on a plane potentially dangerous?

I reckon so. Having an easily dropped burning object in your mouth while hurtling through the sky thousands of feet in the air in a aluminium can at hundreds of miles an hour doesn't seem the safest thing in the world.


Observation: It seems like he was punished more for refusing to comply with the flight crew than smoking per se. We may not flog a person in the United States for this kind of offense, but you can be sure that the air marshalls would definitely rough him up while apprehending him on the plane.

There's a world of difference between an individual using excessive force and a beating handed out as punishment by a legal system.

who must hold a book under his arm to prevent him using too much force.

well you wouldn't want anyone thinking Saudi Arabia is uncivilized now

When people can't master "stand right, walk left" on the escalators, I sometimes day-dream of pushing them.

I too do this but as a more general stupid public not sticking to the left when walking (British) almost makes me want to start windmilling

Question: Isn't smoking on a plane potentially dangerous?

people used to do it all the time didn't they?

people used to do it all the time didn't they?

I have no idea. But we used to build houses with asbestos, so not knowing the danger seems like a possibility.

I have no idea. But we used to build houses with asbestos, so not knowing the danger seems like a possibility.

Well, I don't think there's any concern safety-wise (other than general risks like fires and that sort of thing). The primary concern is the fact that you've got smoke in a pressurized cabin that relies on recirculated air...aside from the fact that it'll probably wear out air filters pretty quickly, it also means the entire plane's going to smell and anybody working on the plane is going to be exposed to considerable second-hand smoke all the time.

The problem, as stated in the article, wasn't that he smoked a cigarette, but that "His cigarette triggered a smoke alarm that led to panic among passengers." The Saudis don't treat fucking around on airplanes like it's no big deal. Seems kinda sensible. Lashes however is just plain abuse. On the other hand it gets across the same message as jail time, more cost effectively!

Anyway so the people in a giddy, sadistic frenzy at the prospect of heaping unjust abuse on smokers apparently only read the titles of threads.

I wonder which book they use?

the Airline safety panphlet.

I have no idea. But we used to build houses with asbestos, so not knowing the danger seems like a possibility.

tbh I'm just getting this from police academy >.>

The Saudis don't treat fucking around on airplanes like it's no big deal.

he he

Well, I don't think there's any concern safety-wise (other than general risks like fires and that sort of thing). The primary concern is the fact that you've got smoke in a pressurized cabin that relies on recirculated air...aside from the fact that it'll probably wear out air filters pretty quickly, it also means the entire plane's going to smell and anybody working on the plane is going to be exposed to considerable second-hand smoke all the time.

Actually, they air comes from the compressor bleed air in one (or more) of the turbojets. As it's extremely warm at that stage, it then passes over a heat exchanger which is exposed to outside air, and then vented into the cabin.

There's a temperature setting in the cockpit that allows adjustment of the air temperature by rerouting some of that air past the heat exchanger.

There's also a cabin pressure relief valve that allows air to escape the cabin - this is controlled by the cabin altitude control cluster - also in the cockpit.

There's a world of difference between an individual using excessive force and a beating handed out as punishment by a legal system.
It's that the latter is honest and the former, when common, is hypocrisy.

On the other hand it gets across the same message as jail time, more cost effectively!
I'd much rather be lashed than subjected to the dehumanizing procedures of entry into the prison system, not to mention what happens inside it.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1134323/Man-sentenced-30-lashes-flouting-smoking-ban-Saudi-Arabian-flight.html

Can I have a better source than the anti-Muslim Daily Fail please?

Can I have a better source than the anti-Muslim Daily Fail please?

Sure. Go find it, and I'll edit it into the OP for you.

For the heck of it: They should have punished him worse for endangering the lives of everyone on board the plane.

He shouldn't suffer lashes. He should be fined or serve a short jail sentence, but lashes are, in my view, an unacceptable form of corporal punishment.

He shouldn't suffer lashes. He should be fined or serve a short jail sentence, but lashes are, in my view, an unacceptable form of corporal punishment.

So, in your view, what is an acceptable form of corporal punishment?

endangering the lives of everyone on board the plane.

How?

And here we go:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1134323/Man-sentenced-30-lashes-flouting-smoking-ban-Saudi-Arabian-flight.html



So, I hate smoking next to me as much as the next guy (assuming the next guy is a non-smoker), but this is ridiculous, and slightly hilarious.

Granted, the actual offense was not complying with the instructions of the flight crew, but still... at its core was that the person was smoking and refused to put it out.

Opinions?

well, yeah, it is way over the top. but the guy sounds like a prick, and maybe a £50 or £100 fine would be in order

we have a ban on smoking in public places in this country. and you haven't been able to smoke on planes for years... i'm surprised that you still can anywhere, tbh. not cos of any safety concerns, just cos its gross for non-smokers.

When people can't master "stand right, walk left" on the escalators, I sometimes day-dream of pushing them.

hehe, its the other way round here :P

How?

How was he endangering the people? Second hand smoke, and a risk of fire.

Second hand smoke

You fail.

So, in your view, what is an acceptable form of corporal punishment?

A smack on the wrist. Possibly a spanking. (Note: I'm talking about grown-ups here.)

A smack on the wrist. Possibly a spanking. (Note: I'm talking about grown-ups here.)

But then some people would commit crimes hoping for punishment...

You fail.

Your face fails.

:p

He wants to smoke? Why not give him an ironic punishment? Make him smoke a carton (you know, the economy size from Costco) without having anything to drink while confined to a tiny room, and he is not allowed any breaks between fags.

But then some people would commit crimes hoping for punishment...

We can offset that by offering free governmental spankings for those wishing it. I'm sure they all have some petty stuff to "atone" for.

You fail.

....because no one with respiratory issues ever rides on planes, and thus could not possibly be made ill by being forced to breathe recirculated smoke for a few hours!

Or, y'know, not.

Defend smoking, fine, but defending smoking in an enclosed environment with no ventilation, no outside air, and no way for others to remove themselves from your presence is absurd. The guy was being a colossal asshole, and while I don't support the particular method of punishment, he certainly deserves a hefty fine or something similar.

He wants to smoke? Why not give him an ironic punishment? Make him smoke a carton (you know, the economy size from Costco) without having anything to drink while confined to a tiny room, and he is not allowed any breaks between fags.

A tiny room... like a plane.

Question: Isn't smoking on a plane potentially dangerous?


No. It used to be legal, and, as far as I know, there has been no attributable impact from its prohibition on safety.

Defend smoking, fine, but defending smoking in an enclosed environment with no ventilation, no outside air, and no way for others to remove themselves from your presence is absurd. The guy was being a colossal asshole, and while I don't support the particular method of punishment, he certainly deserves a hefty fine or something similar.

He was being an asshole, and I actually think corporal punishment is not a bad thing.

However -

Airplanes have plenty of ventilation. The air conditioning system is driven by the compressor bleed air off of one (or more) of the turbojets. The air in the plane is replaced continuously.

I don't see any problem.

* Guy is breaking law
* Guy is told NOT to break the law, please stop.
* Guy refuses
* Guy is told again, NOT to break law
* Guy refuses
* Guy arrested
* Pleads guilty, found guilty.
* Punished in accordance with the law

He knew he was breaking the law, disobeying instruction of flight crew and smoking in an aircraft, a total no brainer and a reasonable case I don't think anyone really disagrees with. Anyone familiar with Saudi law would know the penalty was going to be harsh, and anyone who continues to break said law after having been warned off would suffer the consequences, so he has only himself to blame.

No sympathy. Maybe now he'll learn not to be a twat and ignore polite requests to comply with an obvious and not exactly unreasonable rule.

....because no one with respiratory issues ever rides on planes, and thus could not possibly be made ill by being forced to breathe recirculated smoke for a few hours!

Or, y'know, not.

Defend smoking, fine, but defending smoking in an enclosed environment with no ventilation, no outside air, and no way for others to remove themselves from your presence is absurd. The guy was being a colossal asshole, and while I don't support the particular method of punishment, he certainly deserves a hefty fine or something similar.

Youre flirting with a strawman. Ive never defended this guy. Ive said that him endangering people's lives might be a bit of a stretch, especially when Zilam seems to be under the impression that second hand smoke = reckless endangerment and/or attempted murder.

Youre flirting with a strawman.

I'm getting a vicarious thrill from the interplay. I will soon FORT SUMTER in my pants.

I'm getting a vicarious thrill from the interplay. I will soon FORT SUMTER in my pants.ct.'

Im so amussed I cant tell if Im being mocked or not.

Im so amussed I cant tell if Im being mocked or not.

I would never mock an agent of the Dark Lord or adopt a dismissive, mocking tone toward a perfectly legitimate view that Obama is the incarnation of evil and his election was the equivalent of starting the civil, race war in which good Christian white people must make their stand against the hordes of subhuman creatures, by killing them in great quantity.

Also I make it a rule to avoid overly long sentences.

I would never mock an agent of the Dark Lord or adopt a dismissive, mocking tone toward a perfectly legitimate view that Obama is the incarnation of evil and his election was the equivalent of starting the civil, race war in which good Christian white people must make their stand against the hordes of subhuman creatures, by killing them in great quantity.

Also I make it a rule to avoid overly long sentences.

You do know the Fort Sumter thing in my sig is meant to mock NM right?:p

Last April a man caught smoking on a domestic Saudi flight was sentenced to 50 lashes. His cigarette triggered a smoke alarm that led to panic among passengers.
50 lashes for smoking on a plane? He was lucky.

You do know the Fort Sumter thing in my sig is meant to mock NM right?:p

This is what makes you an agent of the Dark Lord. It's the Dark Mark!

This is what makes you an agent of the Dark Lord. It's the Dark Mark!

Ok, sorry, Im oblivious today. Understood;)

I think the punishment has more to do with the geographical region in which it's being applied than the crime itself.

Well, I don't think there's any concern safety-wise (other than general risks like fires and that sort of thing). The primary concern is the fact that you've got smoke in a pressurized cabin that relies on recirculated air...aside from the fact that it'll probably wear out air filters pretty quickly, it also means the entire plane's going to smell and anybody working on the plane is going to be exposed to considerable second-hand smoke all the time.

From what I remember, the seat covers in most airplanes burn easily, and make a lot of smoke, one of the primary causes of air crash deaths (for those who survive landing). Don't know if they've changed that though.

Wow, and I thought the Kuwaitis were harsh for fining you 50 KD for smoking in the airport...
Surely you can just tell them to fuck off on the grounds that they wouldn't even be a country if it wasn't for us?