NationStates Jolt Archive

I know this story is a bit old but, why is it when I read this:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/30/embryos.ethics/index.html

I thought of this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apu





Explain and discuss. Or not. Spam is acceptable. -_-

I love the word octuplets, and octuple. Otherwise it may have been kinda stupid to put that many embryos in.

there is something more to this story than we have been told so far.

what woman who has 6 kids wants more?

what woman who has 6 kids and lives with her parents in a modest home wants more?

what woman who has 6 kids and lives with her parents in a modest home has that kind of money?

what woman who has 6 kids and lives with her parents in a modest home who has that kind of money spends it on more kids instead of a home of her own?

what doctor implants 8 (maybe more) embryos into any woman?

there is something more to this story than we have been told so far.

what woman who has 6 kids wants more?

http://www.duggarfamily.com/

-_-

http://images.ronsbrain.com/Rachel_Interrogation_Droid.jpg

http://www.duggarfamily.com/

-_-
thats not a good answer to my questions.

they are a married couple with good income and a huge house already.

thats not a good answer to my questions.

they are a married couple with good income and a huge house already.

:P

The woman in question, however, is going to be about as "rich" as they are, however... Discovery Channel/TLC/Network TV features are soon to follow. :tongue:

:P

The woman in question, however, is going to be about as "rich" as they are, however... Discovery Channel/TLC/Network TV features are soon to follow. :tongue:
those gigs dont usually pay enough to support a family of 15 in comfort.

those gigs dont usually pay enough to support a family of 15 in comfort.

Well, its a horrifying thought, but what if she only intended to support a family of 1?

I've never understood the moral flexibility allowed by those of some faiths. God Himself decreed that the woman be sterile. So science, a tool which many of certain faiths believe is devil-made, comes to the rescue.

Whatever happened to "thy will be done?" Buncha flexible folks in some religious quarters.

Well, its a horrifying thought, but what if she only intended to support a family of 1?
then she should have gotten her tubes tied.

I've never understood the moral flexibility allowed by those of some faiths. God Himself decreed that the woman be sterile. So science, a tool which many of certain faiths believe is devil-made, comes to the rescue.

Whatever happened to "thy will be done?" Buncha flexible folks in some religious quarters.
is she religious?

is she religious?

Amen.

is she religious?

No idea, and don't care. My post wasn't specific to the woman in the OP but to the concept of fertility science as it pertains to those who are so anti-science...until it can give them a "miracle baby". Or eight.

Well, politics and religon do seem to have more to do with this woman's "choice"---didn't the republicans just remove any funding for birth control from the Obama budget? I wonder whether they are the ones who also funded this woman's ability to pay for a fertility clinic instead? I wonder if they are going to be paying for the support and maintenance of this woman and her now 14 children who live with the grandparents as there is no second income/man around? Don't you think this is kinda nuts policy-wise?

Well, politics and religon do seem to have more to do with this woman's "choice"---didn't the republicans just remove any funding for birth control from the Obama budget? I wonder whether they are the ones who also funded this woman's ability to pay for a fertility clinic instead? I wonder if they are going to be paying for the support and maintenance of this woman and her now 14 children who live with the grandparents as there is no second income/man around? Don't you think this is kinda nuts policy-wise?
the contraception was removed from the stimulus bill.

the govt doesnt pay for in vitro fertilization.

isnt there a limit on increasing welfare payments for additional children? (supposing that welfare is part of her income).

and yes it seems to me to be very crazy. the chances of an 8-baby pregnancy killing you is pretty high. her quest to have one more kid could have left 6 children motherless.

the chances of an 8-baby pregnancy killing you is pretty high. her quest to have one more kid could have left 6 children motherless.

Not only that, chances are extremely high that at least a few of them will die. There was an even higher chance that they would be born so early that they would die because of undeveloped lungs, among other things.

Well, unless she was part of a grand scientific experiment and got the in-vitro for free, she must be loaded, as it is not a cheap procedure even for two working people. I doubt she is loaded if she is living with her parents, unless she owns the house and they are her au pairs. Don't know whether, in the last 8 years, there have been limits on welfare for additional children, as the policy has been anti-abortion/birth control for quite awhile and granting welfare would seem to be part of the scheme to promote births.

Unless this woman won the lottery or something, I feel very sorry for the 14 kids.

Ugh.

It's stories like these that give bioethicists hives.

Apparently, the grandfather is now returning to IRAQ to "raise money" to support the daughter and 14 kids---am I missing something here? As reported in the New York Post--online edition:

"The California woman who gave birth to octuplets filed for bankruptcy nearly two years ago and was forced to move in with her parents because of the skiddish economy -- and the grandfather of the newborns now plans to go to his native Iraq to earn money for his enlarged family, relatives said.

Is Calif. Woman Scheming for Reality Show?

The woman, whose identity has been kept under wraps by the Los Angeles-area hospital where the kids were born on Monday, already has six children, who range in age from seven to two.

The grandfather of the newborns apparently plans to travel to his native Iraq to earn money for the growing family, CBS News reported.

"We have a huge house -- not here," said the man, who would only identify himself as Ed as he walked into his home near LA.

He then warned reporters camped outside the home that they are "never going to know where it is."

So far there has been no mention of who the father of the children is.

At birth, the infants ranged in weight between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces.

Little was known about the woman until a family friend told CBS News on Thursday that the mother is "fairly young" and lives with her parents and six other children.

Making matter worse, family members said the woman had embryos implanted in her last year, and after finding out she was pregnant with multiple babies was given the option by doctors of selectively reducing the number of embryos.

Dr. Harold Henry said the woman was already pregnant when she came to Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center and she was counseled about the risks of her pregnancy and on the option of aborting some of the fetuses.

Doctors had been expecting only seven babies, but an eighth was born in the cesarean delivery. The six boys and two girls are only the second octuplets ever to be born alive in this country.

"Please know, in our own time, we will share additional details about this miraculous experience," the family said in a statement released by the hospital.

"The babies continue to grow strong everyday and make good progress. My family and I are ecstatic about all of their arrivals. Needless to say the eighth was a surprise to us all, but a blessing as well."

Dr. Mandhir Gupta said seven of the babies were breathing without assistance. One was still receiving oxygen through a tube.

Seven of the infants were being tube-fed donated breast milk. One of the boys was expected to begin feedings as early as this weekend. Doctors said all the babies would continue to receive an intravenous nutritional combination. They are expected to remain in the hospital for at least another month."

Apparently, the grandfather is now returning to IRAQ to "raise money" to support the daughter and 14 kids---am I missing something here? As reported in the New York Post--online edition:


thanks for the update.

there is something very OFF about this story. i doubt its going to turn out to be a heartwarming bit of americana when it all comes out.

Jesus Tap Dancing Christ! Is she trying to start her own sport team?! :eek:

I've never understood the moral flexibility allowed by those of some faiths. God Himself decreed that the woman be sterile. So science, a tool which many of certain faiths believe is devil-made, comes to the rescue.

Whatever happened to "thy will be done?" Buncha flexible folks in some religious quarters.
This. ^

This story gets weirder and sadder by the minute.

Octuplets' Mom "Obsessed" With Having Kids, Her Mom Says All 14 Of ...Jan 31, 2009 ... Her mother says all 14 of her daughter's children resulted from in-vitro fertilization, and her daughter isn't married.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/31/earlyshow/health/main4766068.shtml - 52 minutes ago - Similar pages -

Having looked at both of GOBAMAWIN's articles, either:

1) The mother has a mental problem, and whatever doctor or doctors have been doing the IVF procedures with her may be violating medical ethics in dealing with a patient who is not a good candidate for them. This woman sounds like a maternity version of those people who are addicted to getting cosmetic surgery. There comes a time when a doctor just has to say no and refer the patient to a psychiatrist/psychologist.

OR

2) Daddy and daughter are trying to build their own army or something. Because the mother's father seems rather weirdly okay with all this, and with keeping it all very secret. More so than her mother, perhaps.

This story gets weirder and sadder by the minute.

Octuplets' Mom "Obsessed" With Having Kids, Her Mom Says All 14 Of ...Jan 31, 2009 ... Her mother says all 14 of her daughter's children resulted from in-vitro fertilization, and her daughter isn't married.
www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/01/31/earlyshow/health/main4766068.shtml - 52 minutes ago - Similar pages -
did it mention that all of the other 6 are under 8 years old?

You know, you just might have something there with the daddy/daughter thing--the article says all of the kids are from the same father. Perhaps daddy is donating the sperm for in-vitro and, that way, he cannot be charged with incest? It would also explain the mother's sudden need to talk to the press while daddy stays mute and yells at the press while he puts kids on the bus.

Yes, both articles indicate the other 6 children are between the ages of 2 and 7. Twins in the group of 6 too. L

It appears she also wants $2 million from Oprah now, so I am guessing her mother will start clamming up quickly.

Octuplets’ mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star - 1 hour ago
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week - media mogul Oprah Winfrey, ...Times Online

It appears she also wants $2 million from Oprah now, so I am guessing her mother will start clamming up quickly.

Octuplets’ mother wants Oprah to turn her into a $2m TV star - 1 hour ago
Although still confined to an LA hospital bed, she intends to talk to two influential television hosts this week - media mogul Oprah Winfrey, ...Times Online
why would oprah pay this nut to be on her show?

You know, you just might have something there with the daddy/daughter thing--the article says all of the kids are from the same father. Perhaps daddy is donating the sperm for in-vitro and, that way, he cannot be charged with incest? It would also explain the mother's sudden need to talk to the press while daddy stays mute and yells at the press while he puts kids on the bus.
I'm not saying the daddy is the baby-daddy. I'm just saying the dynamic is strange and off-putting.

why would oprah pay this nut to be on her show?
Honestly, I don't know, except that we have heard from her mother and father, but not from her or her MDs, and I guess she is a medical/biological curiosity. I bet she gets 10 million if all her kids are on the show too.

I'm not saying the daddy is the baby-daddy. I'm just saying the dynamic is strange and off-putting.
Strange and Offputting is a very nice way of what I would call "weird." I still feel very sorry for all those innocent kids who, evidently, are going to be dependent on their grandfather's salary from Iraq or on whatever their mother can get from Oprah?.

why would oprah pay this nut to be on her show?

For the same reason shows like Jerry Springer is popular.

For the same reason shows like Jerry Springer is popular.
Yes, it has all the makings of a "Jerry Springer" or "Maury" show--except she has the same father for all her kids, which I guess makes it "Oprah", but if the father of the children who provided the sperm ends up being her father and the kids' grandfather, then I guess we are back to the "Springer" and "Maury" shows--I don't think they pay or pay as much as "Oprah."

Yes, it has all the makings of a "Jerry Springer" or "Maury" show--except she has the same father for all her kids, which I guess makes it "Oprah", but if the father of the children who provided the sperm ends up being her father and the kids' grandfather, then I guess we are back to the "Springer" and "Maury" shows--I don't think they pay or pay as much as "Oprah."

Wait...her father provided the sperm for her kids?

Wait...her father provided the sperm for her kids?
No--see prior posts--no one knows who the father of the kids is. The mother/grandmother stated the same father donated the sperm for all 14 kids, and her daughter did not want to get rid of frozen unused embryos and was "obsessed" with having kids.

As the mother/grandmother gabbed all this to the press, the father/grandfather was videotaped yelling at the press telling them to go away. Meantime, the daughter/mother of 14 was calling Oprah and seeking $2 million, while the father/grandfather told the press he was returning to Iraq to find work to support the kids. By the way, they already declared bankruptcy once and lost a home.

Beecause the whole thing is so weird, I responded to a prior post surmising that perhaps the father/grandfather of 14 was the sperm donor for the 14 kids/hatched embryos, which might explain why the daughter/mother of 14 was so attached and "obsessed" with the frozen embryos and having kids.

Kind of a joke, but because the whole thing is so weird, I would not be surprised.

-snip

Ahh, I started to say "They're going to have a bunch of retarded babies then." :p

Ahh, I started to say "They're going to have a bunch of retarded babies then." :p
Well, considering the status of the mother and grandparents, for the sake of the 14 kids, in an effort to give them half a chance, I hope that the man who provided sperm had unrelated DNA. . . .

Well, considering the status of the mother and grandparents, for the sake of the 14 kids, in an effort to give them half a chance, I hope that the man who provided sperm had unrelated DNA. . . .

Totally relevant! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE)

Totally relevant! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uzae_SqbmDE)
I do try. . . .

The more I think of this story, the more my inner cynic (who is identical to my outer cynic) wonders how much of it the media have just got wrong and how much of it is a hoax. All this stuff about 14 kids, all under 8 years old, all by IVF from the same unknown sperm donor. Wtf? It would make more sense if it came to light that all those kids had been stolen from various hospitals.

The more I think of this story, the more my inner cynic (who is identical to my outer cynic) wonders how much of it the media have just got wrong and how much of it is a hoax. All this stuff about 14 kids, all under 8 years old, all by IVF from the same unknown sperm donor. Wtf? It would make more sense if it came to light that all those kids had been stolen from various hospitals.
Yes, let's see, they were stolen by the alleged grandfather so they could be transported to Iraq and he could hire them out there to help support the family. . . .

Yes, let's see, they were stolen by the alleged grandfather so they could be transported to Iraq and he could hire them out there to help support the family. . . .
Sure, why not? Smuggle the stolen babies out to Iraq, and then let rich white Americans "privately" adopt Iraqi "orphans" for huge sums of money in order to make themselves feel better about not adopting black or latino orphans here in the US. But now that they've been outed, I guess Oprah is their fall-back plan for making a score off all those kids.

Sure, why not? Smuggle the stolen babies out to Iraq, and then let rich white Americans "privately" adopt Iraqi "orphans" for huge sums of money in order to make themselves feel better about not adopting black or latino orphans here in the US. But now that they've been outed, I guess Oprah is their fall-back plan for making a score off all those kids.
I think the media did a MUCH better job than you and I are doing--don't you? :)

I think the media did a MUCH better job than you and I are doing--don't you? :)
Maybe, but that would be because I'm trying to make the story make sense, rather than just let it roll. :D

I wouldn't be too hasty theorizing about possible incest. It seems reasonable enough to me that you'd use the same donor multiple times, simply because you'd want the kids to look similar. Not that you'd need to, really. I look nothing like my parents, but no one ever said anything, except "you have the same eyes!" ever once in a while... people find patterns where they don't exist all the time. People are stupid when it comes to that.