NationStates Jolt Archive

What should good manners be based on? Should they be derived from social status or on practicality?

So for example a poor working man is walking down a street carrying a large sack of coal looks up to find himself on a collision course with the seventy year-old filthy rich Duchess of Balamory. Should he step aside to allow the Duchess to pass or should she get out of his way?

My view is that they should both make some effort to get out of each others path, but in this case it is easier for old woman to get out out of the person carrying the heavy load. If he hadn't been carrying the heavy load it would be easier for him to get out the way. What do you think - maybe there are other approaches like 'might is right'?

good manners are about respect which is why as a child you got scolded for not respecting elders and such O_o

the woman should be in the kitchen making children.

The peasant should get out of the way.

The old lady should get out of the way. When he returns without the heavy load, he should move out of her way. And he should say "thank you". And fart rainbows. And there will be world peace.

..And fart rainbows. And there will be world peace.

Not sure about that, but they do make life more pleasant for everyone.

The peasant should get out of the way.

and rise up to crush the oppressive bourgeoisie and their sacks *sets fire to the Duchesses orphanage*

edit: kay I can read now

This will all end in tears as they will both try to move aside, and thrice consecutively try to shift to the SAME side, and by the time they have it sorted out there's coal all over everyone. An automobile pilot will be distracted by the lady's surprised yelp, lose himself int he turn, crash the car onto its side and skid into the sidewalk, killing everyone involved.

The only real solution is for the duchess to instead take her walk fifteen minutes later than usual.

Manners are contrived social constructs invented by petty, squabbling monkeys to prevent other petty, squabling monkeys from expressing their monkey nature.

I prefer to embrace my genus. Fuck manners.

She should get out of the way because the woman with the highest social status is still lower than the man with the lowest social status. Which set of genitals one has matters.

Manners are contrived social constructs invented by petty, squabbling monkeys to prevent other petty, squabling monkeys from expressing their monkey nature.

I prefer to embrace my genus. Fuck manners.

Well, I prefer not having poo flung at me, thank you very much.

What should good manners be based on? Should they be derived from social status or on practicality?
Practicality, not that the two never intertwine.

Manners are contrived social constructs invented by petty, squabbling monkeys to prevent other petty, squabling monkeys from expressing their monkey nature.

I prefer to embrace my genus. Fuck manners.

Manners are the oil that keeps the machine of society running. Those who dismiss manners throw sand into a contraption that works dodgely under the best of circumstances.

Manners are the oil that keeps the machine of society running. Those who dismiss manners throw sand into a contraption that works dodgely under the best of circumstances.

Who am I to deny my nature? Who are you to force me to conform to YOUR nature?

the woman should be in the kitchen making children.

so that's how it's done. All this time I thought it had something to do with sex.

everyone should get the fuck out of my way.

everyone should get the fuck out of my way.

...or what?

Manners are to keep you from doing something that might offend someone else. In the case outlined.....I don't know that it's a manners issue.

Manners are contrived social constructs invented by petty, squabbling monkeys to prevent other petty, squabling monkeys from expressing their monkey nature.

I prefer to embrace my genus. Fuck manners.

yes yes, you're such a rebel. You're the biggest cowboy on the internet.

good manners are about respect which is why as a child you got scolded for not respecting elders and such O_o

the woman should be in the kitchen making children.
lol that is so nasty!

yes yes, you're such a rebel. You're the biggest cowboy on the internet.

His E-penis is huuuuuuuge.

His E-penis is huuuuuuuge.

and I bet he drives a really expensive car.

He's a lot like Rachmaninov

...or what?

i'll go green and eat people, or something

His E-penis is huuuuuuuge.

Magnificently so! :D

If I only have one pie left, I'm always courteous enough to offer it to my guest. :)

Manners are contrived social constructs invented by petty, squabbling monkeys to prevent other petty, squabling monkeys from expressing their monkey nature.

I prefer to embrace my genus. Fuck manners.
Violent societies are also the ones most concerned with respect and manners. See the American Southeast or any organized crime structure.
It is only when people start getting along and quit capping motherfuckers, or however your lingo words it, that people start feeling confident enough to be rude to each other.
everyone should get the fuck out of my way.
Try telling that to the ground next time you fall out of a tree, or you could try shouting, "GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY FACE, GRAVITY!" That generally works for me.

Violent societies are also the ones most concerned with respect and manners. See the American Southeast or any organized crime structure.
It is only when people start getting along and quit capping motherfuckers, or however your lingo words it, that people start feeling confident enough to be rude to each other.

A heavily armed society is a polite society, to a point. A violent society is just violent.

Politeness often succeeds where rudeness doesn't. Just look at successful salespeople and beggars:
"You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar".

My prize to the most consistently polite poster goes to:

Slowly opens envelope........


Gauntled Fist

Even when I teased him , last October, he didn't bite back. As a result I've always tried to be considerate to him in return. ..... Such a nice boy, Oy!

I don't think manners in themselves will change much.
Honesty delivered properly will be more effective than any please or thank you, that's not to say manners in some occasions aren't important, i mean in some cases it makes sense e.g. queueing. According to one article i read more Britons died on the Titanic than Americans because they politely waited for their turn to get into the boats.
But manners can be used quite aggresively if you really want them to be, e.g. sword duel or pistol duel. They are i think an extension of social norms to prevent any fights becoming life threatening, they won't stop violence but they at least instil some kind of sense that killing other people is a very bad idea if you want to be liked by other people.

Honesty however can be cherished far more, and in some cases brute honesty will save lives or at least save alot of time. I think it has to be remembered that you can be honest and put it in a polite way, e.g. say you hate someone's guts because they said you're a fatty/thinny/middly you might be better off talking to them quietly that you are pissed off with them, but if they are nice to you in future or at least stop calling you names you'l refrain from kicking them in the nuts.

Okay so i admit some of my reasoning is not watertight, but i think some of you get the rough gist of what i'm saying. Manners works and is very useful, however should the situation call for it maybe it's better to be more honest about things.
...okay well i think i made sense for once....at least to me i did i have no idea if anyone else thinks i'm making sense or just projecting my own fears or or something like that....
feelin fine.

good manners are about respect which is why as a child you got scolded for not respecting elders and such O_o

the woman should be in the kitchen making children.

Mm, roast children.*rubs stomach*

However, most manners seem to be an extension of class warfare at work. Manners should really exist at all, for useless things like elbows on the table, or plain hypocritical ones like keeping the door open for women (I do it for both sexes, FYI). I've never seen the reason for disliking burping, and when I asked a friend was chastised with "It's etiquette." Pretty useless justification.

Belching is, apparently, considered polite at the end of a Mongolian feast. It tells your hosts that you have eaten your fill and have enjoyed it.
So you make a good point - cultural relativity is an issue in ettiquette.
I suppose that good manners can be summed up as acknowledging others.
By the way, the English expression, "That's the ticket" derived from etti-quette.

It is interesting that we are much more aware now of what is considered good etiquette in different cultures, though we are now much more likely to meet people with different ideas about politeness. This in itself makes things more difficult, do you follow you own cultures codes or do you use theirs when you meet, much potential for hilarity and insult.

I go with manners all the way. When people are forced to live together there tends to be more courtesy than when people have their own space. People are more aware of other people, and more courteous in places such as London, Tokyo etc. rather than in the provinces, simply because a large number of people cramped together would soon descend into anarchy if they didn't, no choice but to develop a strong etiquette in order to get along. In less stressed environments, and in some cultures etiquette is less important than it was.

As for levels of courtesy based on rank or practicality, it exists on both levels, as there is etiquette within classes (often different within each) and also between different classes (different etiquette again). It's worked well for thousands of years, why change it?

[QUOTE=Abdju;14450978]I go with manners all the way. When people are forced to live together there tends to be more courtesy than when people have their own space. People are more aware of other people, and more courteous in places such as London, Tokyo etc. rather than in the provinces, simply because a large number of people cramped together would soon descend into anarchy if they didn't, no choice but to develop a strong etiquette in order to get along. In less stressed environments, and in some cultures etiquette is less important than it was.

QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but 'couteous' and 'London' can never be mentioned in the same sentence. Try getting a suitcase and small child across London and you will know that I'm telling the truth;)

She should get out of the way because the woman with the highest social status is still lower than the man with the lowest social status. Which set of genitals one has matters.
so, going on that basis Hermaphrodites are at the top of the manners ladder. Am I correct? Their extra bits give them an added point, pushing them to the fore.

normally the Chap should really get out into the road , One thinks that the chap should turn to the side and allow Her Grace to pass

I'm sorry, but 'couteous' and 'London' can never be mentioned in the same sentence. Try getting a suitcase and small child across London and you will know that I'm telling the truth;)

I'm not saying it's as good as it could be, but I'm comparing main cities generally to provinces generally. Whenever I go to see my in-laws the atitudes there (Worcestershire) are much worse than in London. It's the same in most countries.

normally the Chap should really get out into the road , One thinks that the chap should turn to the side and allow Her Grace to pass

Bloody good, that's a sporting way to view this quandary!

(I always wanted to use that phrase..)

I think that the woman on the carriage should move out of the way because its easier for her.

I've always viewed manners on a more or less give and take basis. Say I'm at the mall and I hold the door open for the person behind me, I expect the person behind me to at least keep the next door open (should there be one) so I can get through unhindered and 90% of the time I get the same favor in return. If something is more convenient for one person to do they should do it just out of consideration for others. If someone spills something and I am closer to a towel I will get it for them, if someone has a plate and I am standing near a chair I will pull it out for them... and I expect or at least hope for the same courtesy to be returned to me. I embrace that philosophy for almost everything.

Anyone else notice the disturbing tendency where people that are always decrying others for rudeness are quite often more rude than that themselves?

Who am I to deny my nature?Your own boss? Besides, it has nothing to do with denial. Perhaps you have some rare mutation, but in general manners of some sort or other are an innate part of the nature of most creature, because incurring the damage of needless conflict is detrimental to one's survival and reproduction.

Who are you to force me to conform to YOUR nature?How peculiar that you think that that is what at issue here. It has nothing to do with one person forcing another person to do anything, but it is simply a convention to avoid conflict. If you want to be an ass and get punched in the face by people that have little tolerance for ill manners, you're entirely free to do so. I doubt anyone here has any problem with it. But don't expect any concessions or niceties if you can't be bothered to reciprocate.
It's fine either way. It's not about force, it's about choice and consequences.

What should good manners be based on? Should they be derived from social status or on practicality?

They should be based on avoiding ass-whupings.

They should be based on avoiding ass-whupings.

So.. practicality?

So.. practicality?

Nyess. In your example above the Duchess of Balamory should try not to piss off the guy carrying the heavy load, unless of course the Duchess has mad kung-fu skills and a temper that goes bang at the slightest inkling of disrespect.