NationStates Jolt Archive

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)

raised catholic. one confession away from being a member in good standing.

i stopped because its not true and im not interested in metaphors.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?1) My family is 90% Southern Baptist Christian.
3) Praying to a magic sky fairy and hoping that it will fix my problems is a waste of my time.

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)

How could I not have been exposed to Christianity?

1. I was born into it. My family attended church infrequently.
2. Not a Christian.
3. I am no longer Christian because Christianity doesn't feel right. It doesn't call to me.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

My family are strongly Christian, been to many different Christian churches and other activities, not a Christian myself however.


3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?


I stopped believing in it, but I don't think I ever truly did.

Born and raised southern baptist.

Grew up and developed a bullshit sense.

Became a Satanist.

Grew up and developed a bullshit sense.

Became a Satanist.

Apparently your bullshit sense never fully developed, it seems.

My dad was supposedly raised by strict Christians, but his parents were both dead by the time he was 16, so naturally I never met them. I have a feeling he might be a closet Christian, but he's never pushed any mumbo-jumbo on me. I've learned a lot about Christianity in the classroom at various times throughout gradeschool, high school, college, and so on.

1. Raised sorta-Catholic.
3. Went to Catholic school. :p

(Or, more seriously, simply grew up and thought about things a lot and realized I simply couldn't believe many key tenets of the religion.)

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

Was born into a Catholic family, had my baptism, first communion and confirmation in the Church.

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?

This one does not apply to me.

3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

Because I couldn't swallow that it was the one true religion, and anyone who wasn't a Christian was going to Hell. I also didn't like the fan club.

Born and raised Christian.

After college encountered "Christians" fighting evolution in favor of creationism, trying to get bible classes into the public schools and the ten commandments displayed in public buildings.

Was utterly appalled at the dishonesty of these groups especially the creationist/Intelligent Design folks. That led me to examine Christianity more closely and that examination ultimately forced me to reject it as total nonsense.

I still celebrate Christmas as a cultural, traditional thing even though I look upon the nativity story as a myth.

Parents aren't religious though they were raised so, I went to Sunday School, never really thought about this God or Jesus fellow, I didn't really give a damn about it.

Now I know religion is a terrible cancer upon the human psyche.

Apparently your bullshit sense never fully developed, it seems.

Fully developed, thank you. I harbor no illusions, including none about Satanism.

Fully developed, thank you. I harbor no illusions, including none about Satanism.

I am curious about why you chose Satanism, I want to hear your tale! :D

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

I was born into a religious family and went to church every Sunday (and often other days) for around six years.

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?

Does not apply.

3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I don't tend to like things or people who call me an abomination that should not exist, much less that I should punished for eternity because I found love.

After that, it was all a matter of realizing how easily good intentions can be twisted into sickening acts.

Raised in Christian household. Simply stopped believing.

I harbor no illusions, including none about Satanism.

Yet you became a Satanist.

Now I know religion is a terrible cancer upon the human psyche.

I don't think I'd go that far. It certainly opens the door to all kinds of sloppy or irrational thinking, but I must admit that I've known religious types who were obliviously happy with their faith, while simultaneously working in chemistry and animal science, etc. successfully. Mild religion and reason seem to co-exist well enough.

I am curious about why you chose Satanism, I want to hear your tale! :D

That is a long and sordid tale indeed. I have recognized myself as a Satanist since 1986, and been a member of the CoS since 1998. You might say that xmas 1985 destroyed the last vestiges of xtianity I might have harbored.

Why did I chose Satanism? It's focus on selfism over (self proclaimed) selflessness and a reaction to the hypocrisy I saw (and see) in organized xtianity. There also was the shock value and rebellion involved (very appealing to a teenager), that eventually matured into my current self.

I could probably write a book on the subject.

Yet you became a Satanist.

No, I recognized that I was a Satanist.

Christianity is a beautiful religion and is responsible for many great things; unfortunately, I cannot muster-up the faith to believe in it.

No, I recognized that I was a Satanist.

And now we come full circle.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

1) Born into
2) Nope
3) ..Ohh lots of reasons. Mostly scientific; some philosophic and personal.

And now we come full circle.

Satanism does not really "believe" in Satan.

Satanism does not really "believe" in Satan.

Modern Satanists, no, I'm aware of that.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
Wasn't exactly born into it. My mother is Christian, and we were raised with some of the moral teachings of Christianity, but she never connected those ideas (Treat others with respect, don't steal, don't lie) with the religion. When I was young I did go to a Catholic pre-school that did put emphasis on Christ, but in a non-denominational kind of way and I did visit a Mormon Sunday school from time to time when I would stay overnight with a friend. But, honestly, I never really did any serious church going until I was in junior high and I started to look at different religious beliefs and how I felt about them. That led me to actually attending church, joining one, and becoming an Elder.

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
In the beginning... Er, let me re-phrase that. When I started looking at religious beliefs, Christianity 'felt' right. Like I said, my mother did raise my sister and I with the morals, if not the actual dogma, to it fit like a key into a lock that this religion would match my sense of right and wrong. As I went along with it and had some long conversations with my pastor(s), both of whom are highly intelligent and encouraged questioning everything, I started to change my opinion from just believing to following. Currently I consider myself a follower of Christ because I think that His message rings rather true. Treat each other with love, do good works for the poor, do not fight, etc. The message is to be humble and charitable and I feel those are good goals. As for the divinity aspect of it... After this long I feel that there is a God, but I cannot prove it and I never will. It is a belief and should be treated as such, not holy writ. The same with the divinity of Jesus, I believe so, but again there is no proof and there never will be. Since it's my opinion, there is little to be gained with trying to convince others when the argument boils down to "I feel it is so". Living the life Jesus taught, however, is another story and one I think I should attempt to do with all my heart. So why am I Christian now? Because treating others as you would like to be treated is sound, logical, and makes good sense. And the world WOULD be a better place if everyone tried to do that, regardless of who or what said to do it.

Modern Satanists, no, I'm aware of that.

The founder of modern Satanism (it was founded a few decades ago) never did; Satanism generally just means have sex and revenge while condemning religion.

And now we come full circle.

And thus we are done here. Thank you for the amusement.

The founder of modern Satanism (it was founded a few decades ago) never did; Satanism generally just means have sex and revenge while condemning religion.

And a lame ass philosophy, under the pretence as if it's the only atheistic philosophy. But that's just one of many criticisms of modern Satanism.

My family is jewish, but borderline jewish. Aside from weddings and funerals, the only time one of my close relatives visited the synagogue this century was mom, after 9/11.

Why did I abandon judaism? Because I feel all human religions are false (and have gone into length about it in this topic (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=579060)).

And a lame ass philosophy, under the pretence as if it's the only atheistic philosophy. But that's just one of many criticisms of modern Satanism.

It is an epicurean philosophy with lots of ceremony and humor attached.

And now we come full circle.

He is saying that he realized his tastes and philosophy coincided with that of Satanism, not that he read the "scriptures" and converted.

And a lame ass philosophy, under the pretence as if it's the only atheistic philosophy. But that's just one of many criticisms of modern Satanism.

It is an epicurean philosophy with lots of ceremony and humor attached.

Yep. See the quote above.:D

It is an epicurean philosophy with lots of ceremony and humor attached.

And this should change my opinion of it, why?

He is saying that he realized his tastes and philosophy coincided with that of Satanism, not that he read the "scriptures" and converted.

I don't remember saying otherwise.

Grew up and developed a bullshit sense.

Became a Satanist.
Apparently it was a homing sense ...
(Yeah, someone already jumped on you about that, but his wasn't as funny).

I don't remember saying otherwise.

You are comparing the following of Satanism to the following of religion/mythology, which a mistake--even if your opinions do not agree with Satanism.

Apparently it was a homing sense ...
(Yeah, someone already jumped on you about that, but his wasn't as funny).

Actually Hydes was funny. Now you are providing me with amusement as well. I call this a good night on NSG.;)

Yep. See the quote above.:D

That comes with NSG.

You are comparing the following of Satanism to the following of religion/mythology, which a mistake--even if your opinions do not agree with Satanism.

Where? I think you misinterpreted one of my posts. Anyway, I was only having a bit of fun, I never intended to get all srs bizness about it.

That comes with NSG.

Hey, If I am being bashed, at least they are leaving those poor xtians alone.

Moving right along, I was born and raised Presbyterian. I've sort of fallen out of religion since turning 14, but it wasn't any sort of planned or revelationary process.
These days, I'm a maltheist. There is a god, but it is an inexplicable, implacable, and generally (from our perspective) unpleasant thing. Whether that is humanity's fault for being sinful and disobedient, or god is just an asshole is a question I'm not equipped to answer.

Where? I think you misinterpreted one of my posts. Anyway, I was only having a bit of fun, I never intended to get all srs bizness about it.

But you persisted with your attack:

Yet you became a Satanist.

You then went-on to call Satanism a "lame-ass philosophy".

Hey, If I am being bashed, at least they are leaving those poor xtians alone.

Just wait for a few to show-up on this thread....

But you persisted with your attack:


I'm allowed to persist for as long as I find it amusing. Also, some of Jim's posts were begging those responses, or even better ones (like Fiddlebottoms).

But you persisted with your attack:



You then went-on to call Satanism a "lame-ass philosophy".

Thank you for the defense, but I think my laughing at Hydes renders it unnecessary.

Actually Hydes was funny. Now you are providing me with amusement as well. I call this a good night on NSG.;)
Funny or not, I am funnier. At least, that's what my mom says.
*wipes his nose on his sleeve, adjusts his glasses, and generally nerds it up for Big Jim's amusement*
Unfortunately, I don't have any clothing based on fantasy/scifi/Japanese motifs, so I can't properly complete the illusion.

I'm allowed to persist for as long as I find it amusing. Also, some of Jim's posts were begging those responses, or even better ones (like Fiddlebottoms).

NOW I am offended. I have been indirectly accused of stealth-trolling.:mad:

:tongue:

Funny or not, I am funnier. At least, that's what my mom says.
*wipes his nose on his sleeve, adjusts his glasses, and generally nerds it up for Big Jim's amusement*
Unfortunately, I don't have any clothing based on fantasy/scifi/Japanese motifs, so I can't properly complete the illusion.

Points for the attempt anyway.

Unfortunately, I don't have any clothing based on fantasy/scifi/Japanese motifs, so I can't properly complete the illusion.But you can have a guitar playing in the background to an appropriate game. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSR2xvrq5Bs)

NOW I am offended. I have been indirectly accused of stealth-trolling.:mad:

:tongue:

Isn't that what Satanism is all about, without the stealth part? :p

Arianism, or "The Arian Heresy" as it became, was the only christological explanation which I thought even a vaguely logical mind should accept.

The Immaculate Conception was among many other myths surrounding the man which had been ascribed to various characters in mystery cults and so forth during the period of Hellenistic syncretism and Hasmonean rule.

To postulate that, with the profusion of identical and similar myths spreading like wildfire at the time, this EXACT man was the ONE who it was really true about...not Siddartha Gautama, not Moses, not Muhammad, not Laozi, not Kongzi, not...Amaterasu, Shiva and Ganesh, so forth, or Odin, Mercury, is laughable. Coming from secondary, tertiary, and severely revised sources with notable, apocryphal omissions.

Any "ism" regarding cosmology other than agnosticism is sheer arrogance.
Theism is a bizarre phenomenon. Its constriction of the world's ability to have a good time is a historic shame.
Monotheism in particular.

Eastern religions are no less full of bs, animism and what not, but much more appealing and inclusive. They're not mutually exclusive, a Buddhist monk for example is unlikely to come waving a sutra at you for your immoral ways than a Christian or Islamic fundamentalist. The philosophical aspects of the Dao De Jing and the Zhuangzi are much humbler and more thoughtful than the grandiloquent, absolutely certain, patrimonial silliness of western religions.

For example, of the Tao, or way of the universe, Laozi says, "The Way that can be named is not the Eternal Way." That's basically saying if someone tells you they've got the ways of the universe all figured out, ignore them. I like that. It's not this "And then God said, "Let there be Light!", as if we could know that.

Isn't that what Satanism is all about, without the stealth part? :p


Not really. The only reason you know I am a Satanist is that I am open about. Most Satanist are not, due to the high proportion of assholes in the world ready to attack them.

And before someone brings it up: I am open about Satanism IRL as well, much to my families chagrin.

1: Born and raised as a mainstream Protestant
2: I cannot see any reason to abandon it. If pushed I might mention that there exists a slight communitarian/anarcho-syndicalist current when my faith is reflected in politics combined with a heavier Pharisaic current in terms of personal ethics.

1) Knew several Christians, both Catholic and several kinds of Protestants. Sort of attended a United Congregationalist church until I was about, oh...six. Then I said I wasn't really into it, and the whole family quit going. Go figure. Were they doing it just for me?

2) N/A

3) Sort of N/A, too. Though I did go to that church for a brief while, it wasn't like I ever developed any sense of what it was about -- or even an interest. I never believed in their stories. And I quit way too young for it to have much influence on me. After that, there was zero religious instruction or practice in my family of any kind. I guess they weren't into it much, either. I'm an animist now, but that has nothing at all to do with my exposure to Christianity. Christianity is pretty much a non-event in my life.

1) Knew several Christians, both Catholic and several kinds of Protestants. Sort of attended a United Congregationalist church until I was about, oh...six. Then I said I wan't really into it, and the whole family quit going. Go figure. Were they doing it just for me?I sometimes wish some of my family would stop going. Listening to "God this, God that" my entire life has gotten to be a little boring, and annoying.
...Just a little. And I gotcha on a spelling mistake. Finally.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

Born into a family that was Sikh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhism), never stepped into a church in my life.

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?

Not Applicable.

3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

Not Applicable.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

1. Raised with no particular beliefs, went to Roman Catholic Services while in Boot Camp. No particular reason other than an excuse to bet out of the barracks.
2. Doesn't apply.
3. Doesn't apply.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
I was subjected to mandatory lessons of catholic religion by the statal school till age 8. Then, luckily, the law changed and I was given the choice to opt out from religion lessons, which I happily did - I didn't like having a teacher nominated directly by the archbishop and whose task was to indoctrinate us kids into catholicism.

I've never been a christian and I don't want to be one. I think that no religion can ever be proven true (or false), and I guess that there is(are) no god(gods). Not being a christian follows logically.

I recognise the importance of Christianity in the history and in the developement of Western society, though, so I like to keep informed about it - actually I know about Christianity and catholic dogmas more than the average Catholic follower. Homo sum: nihil humani a me alienum puto.

Wasn't raised a Christian.

Explored it.

Decided magical thinking wasn't my thing, thank you.

Went back to my original agnosticism.

1. Both of my parents are atheists/agnostics and raised me without religion. My primary exposure to Christianity was through my cousins, who were raised Southern Baptist and liked to tell me all the reasons I was going to Hell, and through the movie "Jesus Christ Superstar", which led me to believe that Jesus was pretty, Judas was totally misunderstood, and it would be a cool idea to be crucified on my front lawn (my parents said no--"I think it would upset the neighbors").

2. I am not a Christian.

3. I was never a Christian, although I used to be fascinated by the pomp and ceremony of Catholic Mass. I suppose, since I was baptized (to appease my father's side of the family), I could have been considered Christian as an infant--but as soon as I could think about the question myself I ceased to be one.

Me, in regard to Christianity, depends a lot on the Christian in question.

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)

1) Born into being a Catholic, grew up in Catholic family and went to Catholic school.
3) Because I realised I liked being a Catholic mostly for the people who I knew who were Catholic. My family, the nuns who taught us, the youth group I was working with.
It was only when I left that circle of friends that I realised that church teachings and the teachings of Christianity had precious little to do with what they taught me and what I consider to be true.
I had a long hard look at the bible and was frankly shocked.
So I became agnostic.
Then, the more I looked at the world, the more I found out about it and the more I started to inform myself, the more convinced I became that there is in fact no such thing as a god.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
Born into it, raised catholic in a very catholic country, so up until secondary school I was, to my mind, required to at least act catholic. First confession and communion and confirmation were like projects we prepared for in school, most of the time we'd start the day with a prayer, with one teacher we said a decade of the rosary every day, with everyone in the class taking turns to lead us in a Hail Mary.
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
I'm not
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?
The more I seriously thought about God, the more I realised that if I had no reason to believe he existed other than my parents and teachers and priests telling me he does. I had never seen God, never "felt his presence", never seen something impossible that could only have been God. I grew to believe less and less, and never felt like I was really losing anything. Nothing significant changed about my life when I stopped believing.

How could I not have been exposed to Christianity?
Aren't you from the moon or something?
Born and raised southern baptist.

Grew up and developed a bullshit sense.

Became a Satanist.
*waves crucifix around*
The power of christ compels you! The power of christ compels you!
1. Raised with no particular beliefs, went to Roman Catholic Services while in Boot Camp. No particular reason other than an excuse to bet out of the barracks.
2. Doesn't apply.
3. Doesn't apply.

Wait, what? How can you be not and Christian and not not a Christian?

Wait, what? How can you be not and Christian and not not a Christian?

He's a post-modern Christian... he is faithful ironically. ;)

He's a post-modern Christian... he is faithful ironically. ;)

In it just for the hot nuns and schoolgirls, gotcha.

In it just for the hot nuns and schoolgirls, gotcha.

Who wouldn't be? One thing I always found unfair about Catholic clergy was that the nuns were cute, but the priests and monks were invariably old or gay... mostly both. :(

Was born into a Catholic family, had my baptism, first communion and confirmation in the Church.
This one does not apply to me.
Because I couldn't swallow that it was the one true religion, and anyone who wasn't a Christian was going to Hell. I also didn't like the fan club.

See this is what confuses me. You say you were raised Catholic etc and so was I, now we are both of a similar age, yet the priests and Bishops that I was always told us that regardless of your religion provided that you weren't for example going to be a serial killer or some other sort of abomination then you wouldn't be going to hell simply because you weren't a Catholic. Maybe just different areas have different beliefs. And what about the fan club? You don't like Catholics?

I was subjected to mandatory lessons of catholic religion by the statal school till age 8. Then, luckily, the law changed and I was given the choice to opt out from religion lessons, which I happily did - I didn't like having a teacher nominated directly by the archbishop and whose task was to indoctrinate us kids into catholicism.

Wait, the law allows 8 year olds to pick and choose? Do the parents have a say at all?

My parents are nominally Christian (they were brought up as CoE, and I suppose would write that on the census), but I've never known them to go to Church aside from christenings, weddings, and funerals.

They had no problem when from a young age I made it clear that I thought it was a load of bull. You see, we were taught about the Greek myths in Year 3/4, presenting them as a bit silly and not even possibly true, so when they started mentioning Christian religion more and more in Years 5/6 I just laughed and ridiculed it, realising that it was no more likely than the stuff we'd been taught before. I got in trouble a few times like when they tried to make us do a project on the saints I refused and when they gave us a Bible I tossed it straight out the window. Ironically, I was the narrator at the nativity we put on at the Church, but in that case my desire to take centre stage and command the attention of an audience won over my (anti) religious views.

Thinking back, I was a bit of a shit as a kid. Now, I'm willing to be tolerant of other people's views, even though I'm personally still an atheist. I'm surprised the school put up with me, probably because I was one of only about three kids who were marked out in the class early on as being Grammar school material, and they didn't want to worsen the school's statistics by getting rid of me.

My mother is Catholic. I went from Catholic to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to christian. I am my own unique breed of christian in that I worship Christ and not christianity.

My mother is Catholic. I went from Catholic to agnostic to atheist to agnostic to christian. I am my own unique breed of christian in that I worship Christ and not christianity.

Meh, I have exactly the same story. (I don't think it's all that uncommon)

1) Catholic, went to church until I was a teenager.
2) N/A.
3) Found it hard to believe, didn't agree with some of the principles.

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)

1) I was born and raised Catholic. I went to mass, almost every day, until the age of 18. After I graduated high school, I basically lost contact with Catholicism and only went back to it for college purposes.

2) Not currently a Christian.

3) To be honest I don't know why I quit. Perhaps my fervor was lost or I thought that it was an inconvenience after I became an uni student. I don't know. Did I became disenchanted or something? I have never sat down to ponder it.

1) I was born and raised Catholic. I went to mass, almost every day, until the age of 18. After I graduated high school, I basically lost contact with Catholicism and only went back to it for college purposes.

2) Not currently a Christian.

3) To be honest I don't know why I quit. Perhaps my fervor was lost or I thought that it was an inconvenience after I became an uni student. I don't know. Did I became disenchanted or something? I have never sat down to ponder it.

Congratulations! I think you are one of a very small minority on NSG who have been here for a while but haven't been made to think about their faith, existent or non-existent.

Personally, I have to admit that it were some Christians on NSG itself that converted me to outright atheism. :)

The founder of modern Satanism (it was founded a few decades ago) never did; Satanism generally just means have sex and revenge while condemning religion.

Heh certianly for the teens that feel attracted to it.

I know many Satanist, I have read their 'bible' and know about teh satanic rules ect...

Personaly I describe it as ego wanking. I remember when I first joined this little club, I had a fair old go at Big Jim, trying to goad him into a showing a little anger.

Rightfuly he ignored me, and so I can count one decent Satanist of my aquantance.

As for the rest of them, well perhaps like Jim I could write a book about that.:D

Wait, the law allows 8 year olds to pick and choose? Do the parents have a say at all?

The law gave that choice to my parents. They asked me and I said "drop it, it's just a waste of time". They respected my choice.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

Born out of wedlock. Not baptized. Not gone through confirmation. Will not marry in a church.
So the only christian aspect I have to deal with is my death,
which would still fall unto my next of kin to do with my remains as per my request.
It still has to go through the church though, grrr.


2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?

N/A


3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

N/A

Congratulations! I think you are one of a very small minority on NSG who have been here for a while but haven't been made to think about their faith, existent or non-existent.

I guess that's because I made peace with it a long time ago. There's no need to think about it.

Personally, I have to admit that it were some Christians on NSG itself that converted me to outright atheism. :)

I know. Some of the over-zeleous religious people here can truly make one wish to never have heard of Christianity, in any of its denominations.:tongue:

I am not a Christian because Christianity, and Christians, are stupid.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
Very muted nominal-Christian

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
I am a Christian because, despite what many hold, the historical evidence, if you take the time to examine it properly, is way beyond compelling. I couldn't not be a Christian, because, knowing the historical evidence as I do, it would have been intellectually dishonest. Now, after seven years in the army, I'm at Theological College in Sydney, Australia.


3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?
I stopped because I was lazy. I felt no connection, and just lapsed. It wasn't until my early twenties that I came to my historical-evidence based conclusion, and moved forward from there.



If anyone is curious, I'm happy to answer questions, privately or on this forum.

Peace.

Lyras

I am a Christian because, despite what many hold, the historical evidence, if you take the time to examine it properly, is way beyond compelling. I couldn't not be a Christian, because, knowing the historical evidence as I do, it would have been intellectually dishonest. Now, after seven years in the army, I'm at Theological College in Sydney, Australia.


Hah, what? What evidence are you looking at?

I went to a catholic school for 9 years, but never really was religious and only went to church when the school made us. About 8th grade or so, I simply just went atheist.

I haven't had real life contact with Christianity that I recall.

The law gave that choice to my parents. They asked me and I said "drop it, it's just a waste of time". They respected my choice.

Yes ok that's what I thought it might be, rather than the law giving you the choice.

2) I am a Christian because, despite what many hold, the historical evidence, if you take the time to examine it properly, is way beyond compelling. I couldn't not be a Christian, because, knowing the historical evidence as I do, it would have been intellectually dishonest. ...What?

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?
I was quite tempted to ramble on here for a bit, but in summary, raised in a very unusual Christian upbringing, rejected the face-value faith after seeing its effect on people and acknowledging the incompatibility with the God that Christians talk about and the problem of suffering (particularly the imbalanced nature of suffering in the modern world). Furthermore, I believe that the predominant Christian attitude of trying to cover up suffering with divine promises, selective material charity and finger-pointing is unhelpful in solving that problem.

However, I have experienced what I believe to be what Christians call "Divine Experience", which is why I have some sympathy for those who've been through it. I think the Christian interpretation of that experience is philosophically flawed (at the minute, I believe the Tao to be the more appropriate interpretation), and that the Christian institution is based on a political convenience rather than a genuine interest in uncovering and understanding that experience, but I can understand why those who have had it in a particular cultural environment fall into that institution.

I sometimes wish some of my family would stop going. Listening to "God this, God that" my entire life has gotten to be a little boring, and annoying.
...Just a little.
"White"]And I gotcha on a spelling mistake. Finally. [/COLOR]
Fixed. I inserted an "s" that I carved out of your liver while you were sleeping. The grogginess should pass shortly. Don't pick at the stitches, I didn't put much effort into them.

I am not a Christian because Christianity, and Christians, are stupid.
That is completely uncalled for.


2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
I am a Christian because, despite what many hold, the historical evidence, if you take the time to examine it properly, is way beyond compelling. I couldn't not be a Christian, because, knowing the historical evidence as I do, it would have been intellectually dishonest. Now, after seven years in the army, I'm at Theological College in Sydney, Australia.

Actually, so is this. Both you and Mindset forgot to say the magic words "in my opinion" which would stop your remarks from being insults to other people. In your case, you are essentially saying that everyone who is not a Christian is being intellectually dishonest. That's a lot of people to call liars, you know. Were you aware of that in your statement? Do you want to amend it, or try to defend it? I remind you that the OP did not specifically set this thread up as a battle ground for "whose religion is true?", so some people might not take well to someone starting yet another pointless and circular argument based on insulting and unprovable claims. I know I wouldn't.

Fixed. I inserted an "s" that I carved out of your liver while you were sleeping. The grogginess should pass shortly. Don't pick at the stitches, I didn't put much effort into them.


That is completely uncalled for.


Actually, so is this. Both you and Mindset forgot to say the magic words "in my opinion" which would stop your remarks from being insults to other people. In your case, you are essentially saying that everyone who is not a Christian is being intellectually dishonest. That's a lot of people to call liars, you know. Were you aware of that in your statement? Do you want to amend it, or try to defend it? I remind you that the OP did not specifically set this thread up as a battle ground for "whose religion is true?", so some people might not take well to someone starting yet another pointless and circular argument based on insulting and unprovable claims. I know I wouldn't.

I think religion is stupid. I'm not calling anyone individually stupid, but because I think religion - and therefore Christianity - is stupid, then I also think Christians are stupid ipso facto. The fact that it is my opinion was expressed through the use of "I". Don't be so sensitive.

Actually, so is this. Both you and Mindset forgot to say the magic words "in my opinion" which would stop your remarks from being insults to other people. In your case, you are essentially saying that everyone who is not a Christian is being intellectually dishonest. That's a lot of people to call liars, you know. Were you aware of that in your statement? Do you want to amend it, or try to defend it? I remind you that the OP did not specifically set this thread up as a battle ground for "whose religion is true?", so some people might not take well to someone starting yet another pointless and circular argument based on insulting and unprovable claims. I know I wouldn't.
Not necessarily, he said "knowing the historical evidence as I do," it would be intellectually dishonest. So we might be intellectually dishonest, or we might just be complete ignoramuses. And I'm cool with that.

Not necessarily, he said "knowing the historical evidence as I do," it would be intellectually dishonest. So we might be intellectually dishonest, or we might just be complete ignoramuses. And I'm cool with that.

see, it goes even further. "Knowing the evidence as I do". At least it leaves open the door for him being the ignoramus who can't interpret history properly.

And, frankly, it's a refreshing level of candor.

see, it goes even further. "Knowing the evidence as I do". At least it leaves open the door for him being the ignoramus who can't interpret history properly.

And, frankly, it's a refreshing level of candor.
it does make one wonder about his education....

see, it goes even further. "Knowing the evidence as I do". At least it leaves open the door for him being the ignoramus who can't interpret history properly.

And, frankly, it's a refreshing level of candor.
Hurrah for deconstructionism.

I think religion is stupid. I'm not calling anyone individually stupid, but because I think religion - and therefore Christianity - is stupid, then I also think Christians are stupid ipso facto. The fact that it is my opinion was expressed through the use of "I". Don't be so sensitive.
I'm not sensitive. I'm tired. Specifically, I'm tired of people throwing down gauntlets and challenges and then claiming they never meant to do any such thing. Anyone who wrote that sentence and then claims they never meant it to be insulting to Christians is someone who needs an editor to review their writing before publication.

Not necessarily, he said "knowing the historical evidence as I do," it would be intellectually dishonest. So we might be intellectually dishonest, or we might just be complete ignoramuses. And I'm cool with that.

see, it goes even further. "Knowing the evidence as I do". At least it leaves open the door for him being the ignoramus who can't interpret history properly.

And, frankly, it's a refreshing level of candor.
There we go -- the sniping party begins. Lyras did his job well.

There we go -- the sniping party begins.

Have we met?

I'm not sensitive. I'm tired. Specifically, I'm tired of people throwing down gauntlets and challenges and then claiming they never meant to do any such thing. Anyone who wrote that sentence and then claims they never meant it to be insulting to Christians is someone who needs an editor to review their writing before publication.

Expressing an opinion that's contrary to someone elses is automatically insulting them now? So much for not being sensitive. I wasn't challenging anyone. I wasn't even addressing anyone in particular, I was merely voicing my opinion of Christianity - in a thread that asks my opinion in regards to Christianity.

There we go -- the sniping party begins. Lyras did his job well.

the way it was written...i checked back to see if it was a new poster who had a good chance of being a puppet.

why should this thread be immune from a little......fishing if not trawling?

I was baptised and brought up a catholic, attending church on sundays and holy days, was confirmed at age 13ish and attended catholic schools until i went to work at 16. My parents are still practicing catholics.

Even from an early age, I had problems reconciling what I was being taught with what my experience and common sense told me. It just didn't add up. None of the religious people around me were ever able to answer my questions - not that they particularly tried being very much of the brimstone and damnation variety. I grew up feeling guilty for everything, assured that I was destined to burn in hell and everyday accumulating more black marks on my soul - reading books? the devil makes work for idle hands, that's another millenia in hell. singing the Lord's my Shepherd? proddy hymn! another millenia added on. So paradoxically, I had a lot of fear of god but no actual belief.

When I was 18 and could stop attending church, I confronted the fear and dared god to strike me down for not going to church and saying out loud that I didn't believe in him. Of course he didn't make an appearance and I started down the long road to recovery. I'm 40 now and still plagued with guilt for every fucking thing I do or don't, but have never found any reason to believe in the supernatural sadist or any other version of divine being.

Despite genuinely trying to understand and learn about religion, I have no real idea how or why other people can and do believe in a higher being. Honestly not trying to be offensive here, but to me the FSM is every bit as (im)plausible as any other god.

Expressing an opinion that's contrary to someone elses is automatically insulting them now? So much for not being sensitive. I wasn't challenging anyone. I wasn't even addressing anyone in particular, I was merely voicing my opinion of Christianity - in a thread that asks my opinion in regards to Christianity.
That's not what I said. Do what you want. You don't have to apologize for your opinion of Christians, and I am not going to apologize for my opinion that you were being rude and belligerent without provocation. If they just have to live with you saying that they are stupid, you can just live with me saying that your manners are shit.

the way it was written...i checked back to see if it was a new poster who had a good chance of being a puppet.

why should this thread be immune from a little......fishing if not trawling?
It doesn't have to be. I was just enjoying the chance to just get some background information about posters that could grant insight into their positions on religious topics in general. Once the sniping starts, that will end.

Also, I don't mind a debate -- or even an argument -- breaking out. I'm just annoyed by the two particular opening salvos that were fired -- Lyras' backhanded indirect insult, and Mindset's flinging poo and then pretending he didn't. I guess I'm just not in the mood right now for that kind of pussyfooting.

I was baptised Catholic for my Granny's sake. Neither of my parents cared for religion and it was never an issue. They never spoke about it around me; no mention ever. In fact, everything I learned about religion I learned through life.

I was able through that to come to my own conclusions. I'm an Atheist and I don't believe in any of it. I despise all forms of religion, because to me it appears to be backward in many ways. It's restrictive and too authoritarian for my tastes. Almost everything that a person could derive enjoyment from is a sin.

There are some things that are just plain wrong, such as those which do harm to others; i.e.: theft, murder, assault. I know it's wrong; it's just a feeling I get. I wouldn't want to be subject to that, and in turn, could never subject another human to that.

As an Atheist, I don't believe in morality; it's subjective to me. As such, I consider myself amoral.

I go to church at Christmas and sometimes Easter, but that's more of a community thing than a Christian thing.

and Mindset's flinging poo and

It's an interesting tactic is it not? "You're ugly, you face is ugly, you scare children and women away. Members of polite society flee from you in horror. You must be the offspring of your mother and a wildabeast. I couldn't even put a paper bag over your face to have sex with you, since the paper bag would refuse. But I'm not insulting you, I'm just disagreeing with your belief that you're not a hideous, disgusting troll"

It's an interesting tactic is it not? "You're ugly, you face is ugly, you scare children and women away. Members of polite society flee from you in horror. You must be the offspring of your mother and a wildabeast. I couldn't even put a paper bag over your face to have sex with you, since the paper bag would refuse. But I'm not insulting you, I'm just disagreeing with your belief that you're not a hideous, disgusting troll"

Bahaha. This made me laugh. However, if you actually read what I said, it goes more like this:

"I am not a troll because I think trollishness is ugly. By simple logical extension, this also means that I think trolls are ugly, because all trolls are trollish."

There was no use of "you" in my choice of words. I was not addressing anyone in particular, so please don't misrepresent me.

Bahaha. This made me laugh. However, if you actually read what I said, it goes more like this:

"I am not a troll because I think trollishness is ugly. By simple logical extension, this also means that I think trolls are ugly, because all trolls are trollish."

There was no use of "you" in my choice of words. I was not addressing anyone in particular, so please don't misrepresent me.

Well, sure not a person a group of people. It's much more tolerant and stuff that way.

It's an interesting tactic is it not? "You're ugly, you face is ugly, you scare children and women away. Members of polite society flee from you in horror. You must be the offspring of your mother and a wildabeast. I couldn't even put a paper bag over your face to have sex with you, since the paper bag would refuse. But I'm not insulting you, I'm just disagreeing with your belief that you're not a hideous, disgusting troll"
Good summation. :D

Bahaha. This made me laugh. However, if you actually read what I said, it goes more like this:

"I am not a troll because I think trollishness is ugly. By simple logical extension, this also means that I think trolls are ugly, because all trolls are trollish."
In other words, Neo Art's summation was spot on.

There was no use of "you" in my choice of words. I was not addressing anyone in particular, so please don't misrepresent me.
And the classic closing dodge -- the claim that you weren't talking about anyone in particular, as if insulting an entire group isn't really an insult because it somehow isn't applicable to the members of that group.

This "willing to wound and yet afraid to strike" indirect attack is a classic tactic, and you clearly have mastered it. But if you're going to do a thing, don't waste time getting all huffy when someone else calls it for what it is. If it's how you like to do things, then own it.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

I am a Catholic by marriage. I was born into a protestant household. My Mother and Father are at times religious

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?

I am Christian because to date I have no better system. I believe that it normally leads to very good places. I feel that it will in general lead to the betterment of society.

3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I sort fell away during my teenage years and them came back to it. Hard to say why I fell away but I think the important thing is I returned.

Well, sure not a person a group of people. It's much more tolerant and stuff that way.

I can't imagine why you'd think I'm tolerant. I'm intolerant of religion, I think it's stupid.

Good summation. :D


In other words, Neo Art's summation was spot on.


And the classic closing dodge -- the claim that you weren't talking about anyone in particular, as if insulting an entire group isn't really an insult because it somehow isn't applicable to the members of that group.

This "willing to wound and yet afraid to strike" indirect attack is a classic tactic, and you clearly have mastered it. But if you're going to do a thing, don't waste time getting all huffy when someone else calls it for what it is. If it's how you like to do things, then own it.

No, Neo Art's characterisation is flawed in that it portrays me as attacking an individual, which I'm not. I'm attacking Christianity, and by extention, Christians. My point is that my criticism is not directed at an individual, but at a group.

I can't imagine why you'd think I'm tolerant. I'm intolerant of religion, I think it's stupid.



No, Neo Art's characterisation is flawed in that it portrays me as attacking an individual, which I'm not. I'm attacking Christianity, and by extention, Christians. My point is that my criticism is not directed at an individual, but at a group.

i think that you have forgotten what you said:

I am not a Christian because Christianity, and Christians, are stupid.

insulting a group is insulting each member of that group.

I am Christian because to date I have no better system. I believe that it normally leads to very good places. I feel that it will in general lead to the betterment of society.



I'm sorry, I don't mean to pick on you or anything, but how long do you think that will take?
Only, it's been around for roughly 2 millenia, and hasn't really bettered society all that much when you look at it.

i think that you have forgotten what you said:



insulting a group is insulting each member of that group.

Indirectly. I am not flaming any individual.

1) I was raised in a protestant household, and, for a while, took it pretty seriously.
2) Does not apply
3) Short version of the story (keeping it short both because I should be taking notes for my class, and because I'm sure that my life is not all that interesting to anybody else.): In my freshman year of college, I was driven into a major period of introspection after the death of my roommate. It was then I realized that I had not really believed Christian myths for several years. I looked into other religions, and did not see evidence for those either, so I finally admitted to myself that I was an atheist.

Indirectly. I am not flaming any individual.
and that makes it better because?

and that makes it better because?

Because then I can express my views within the rules of this forum.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to pick on you or anything, but how long do you think that will take?
Only, it's been around for roughly 2 millenia, and hasn't really bettered society all that much when you look at it.

I like your style as well. I have no problem defending my views. I would say to some degree it is happening now.

As soon as we can move past the Us vs. Them thing and start living what he preached we will be better off.

As soon as we can put people ahead of money.

As soon as we can see the good in people instead of just the bad

As soon as we can love our neighbor as ourselves

As soon as we can work together instead of forcing each other apart

When we can view the whole as more important than the individual

I am so ready. Let's start soon!

When we can

Because then I can express my views within the rules of this forum.
ahhhhh

i thought that was what you meant.

so nothing that muravyets wrote made you think?

ahhhhh

i thought that was what you meant.

so nothing that muravyets wrote made you think?

Think about what?

I like your style as well. I have no problem defending my views. I would say to some degree it is happening now.

As soon as we can move past the Us vs. Them thing and start living what he preached we will be better off.

As soon as we can put people ahead of money.

As soon as we can see the good in people instead of just the bad

As soon as we can love our neighbor as ourselves

As soon as we can work together instead of forcing each other apart

When we can view the whole as more important than the individual

I am so ready. Let's start soon!

When we can

Don't get me wrong there now, but not only have some Christians been preaching that for centuries without anything much happening, the same things have been said even before that by Greek philosophers, Roman politicians and a certain Egyptian pharao. It's not particular Christian, and Christianity hasn't done much to help those ideas along, either, as far as I can see.

Think about what?
think about tarring an extremely large group of people with one brush?

or even think about why you posted flaimbait in a nice thread about the changes in people's religious views.

is skating the edge of what a mod might punish you for the only issue?

I like your style as well. I have no problem defending my views. I would say to some degree it is happening now.

As soon as we can move past the Us vs. Them thing and start living what he preached we will be better off.

And how exactly has religion helped with this? I mean with all the religious wars and persecution. If there has been a pretext to separate people into Us vs Them thru time is has been religion.


As soon as we can put people ahead of money.

OK... I'm not going to start with the fortunes of religious leaders or the Catholic Church...or Scientology.


As soon as we can see the good in people instead of just the bad


Yes religion has helped a lot to stop condemning people for having different beliefs, sexual preferences belonging to different races or just being women.:p


As soon as we can love our neighbor as ourselves

As soon as we can work together instead of forcing each other apart


Yes...nothing like religion to stop discrimination...what was the name of the proposal? 8...9...I forgot.


When we can view the whole as more important than the individual

Now you are going commie. :mad:


I am so ready. Let's start soon!

When we can

I'm ready too. Yes... I'm sure religion has helped Christians and Muslims to come together!!!

Don't get me wrong there now, but not only have some Christians been preaching that for centuries without anything much happening, the same things have been said even before that by Greek philosophers, Roman politicians and a certain Egyptian pharao. It's not particular Christian, and Christianity hasn't done much to help those ideas along, either, as far as I can see.

Yes, we have. The unity exists deep down. We all want to feel safe at the end of the day. We all want to live our lives in peace.

We are moving in the right direction although I would like to see it move faster as well. Only within the last few centuries did we start to pull down some of the barriers that separate us. Peace works and it is good for everyone in the long run. Sadly it has not come to all places on this earth. Humans have other interests.

It could be Idealistic, it could be Utopian, but it is a fundamental belief that things will get better if we put forward a little effort. Everytime we put forward a little effort it is usually rewarded by more "good things". I think it is possible to achieve very close to a Heaven/ Nirvana/ Paradise on earth. Another reason why I believe. Soon I hope!

Yes, we have. The unity exists deep down. We all want to feel safe at the end of the day. We all want to live our lives in peace.

We are moving in the right direction although I would like to see it move faster as well. Only within the last few centuries did we start to pull down some of the barriers that separate us. Peace works and it is good for everyone in the long run. Sadly it has not come to all places on this earth. Humans have other interests.

It could be Idealistic, it could be Utopian, but it is a fundamental belief that things will get better if we put forward a little effort. Everytime we put forward a little effort it is usually rewarded by more "good things". I think it is possible to achieve very close to a Heaven/ Nirvana/ Paradise on earth. Another reason why I believe. Soon I hope!

Well, as a European I have to say that peace only came to this part of the world once religion and pseudo-religion was pushed back into what's now more or less insignificance.
And progress in the way of teaching people fair and equal again was for the most part spearheaded by humanists, and at times fiercely fought against by religious groups.

I think if we are to achieve peace in any way, we need to assign less significance to religion rather than more.

think about tarring an extremely large group of people with one brush?

or even think about why you posted flaimbait in a nice thread about the changes in people's religious views.

is skating the edge of what a mod might punish you for the only issue?

Not really. I don't care.

Meh, I have exactly the same story. (I don't think it's all that uncommon)

Yes, but was your story punctuated by numerous divings into mud and a plethora of groin kicks? I think not. ;)

There we go -- the sniping party begins. Lyras did his job well.
I just enjoy words, and playing with them. It is hardly mean-spirited.

And how exactly has religion helped with this? I mean with all the religious wars and persecution. If there has been a pretext to separate people into Us vs Them thru time is has been religion.

Sadly because we let it do so. Religion is the belief in something better.



OK... I'm not going to start with the fortunes of religious leaders or the Catholic Church...or Scientology.

I agree build your treasure in Heaven / Nirvana / Paradise. I would agree give it away to the people that need it. Put it to work making this place a better place.




Yes religion has helped a lot to stop condemning people for having different beliefs, sexual preferences belonging to different races or just being women.:p

To them I would say let him or her who is without sin cast the first stone. One sin is no different from another.



Yes...nothing like religion to stop discrimination...what was the name of the proposal? 8...9...I forgot.

Sadly we look at what divides us instead of what unites. One sin is no different from another. God is the only judge.


Now you are going commie. :mad:

No nothing like that. I like freedom. I just hope we will freely decide to offer.




I'm ready too. Yes... I'm sure religion has helped Christians and Muslims to come together!!!

Soon hopefully. We have no reason to fight. Either side. None. Humans have got it wrong. We need to stop.

Well, as a European I have to say that peace only came to this part of the world once religion and pseudo-religion was pushed back into what's now more or less insignificance.
And progress in the way of teaching people fair and equal again was for the most part spearheaded by humanists, and at times fiercely fought against by religious groups.

I think if we are to achieve peace in any way, we need to assign less significance to religion rather than more.

To some degree you are correct. You could also say because Europe increasingly came under the Christian umbrella such divisions were no longer needed. Humanists play a role. Scientists play role. Preachers play a role. Politicians play a role. The list goes on and on. We all play a role.

Sadly because we let it do so. Religion is the belief in something better......

Yes TB... we all know what religions preach. But what worries me is what religions cause. Their real effects compared against their claims.

It isn't nice. Religions have yet to help to bring people together instead of dividing them. You can preach all you want about the words of the holy men... but then you have catholic vs protestant in Ireland, Shiite vs Sunni all over the Muslim world, Hiduism vs Islam, Jews vs Islam...etc...etc....etc...

You say we got it wrong. I think maybe they got it right, the message was wrong, confusing and contradictory.

Yes TB... we all know what religions preach. But what worries me is what religions cause. Their real effects compared against their claims.

It isn't nice. Religions have yet to help to bring people together instead of dividing them. You can preach all you want about the words of the holy men... but then you have catholic vs protestant in Ireland, Shiite vs Sunni all over the Muslim world, Hiduism vs Islam, Jews vs Islam...etc...etc....etc...

You say we got it wrong. I think maybe they got it right, the message was wrong, confusing and contradictory.


You are correct we need Intellectual Evolution maybe to get there you need faith in something better, maybe not, maybe you just do it because it the right thing to do. Some say you need God to get there. I believe that. Whatever it takes to get you to "that place" where you begin to break down barriers.

1) Born into a loosely religious family, considered myself Christian until I was 11 or so.
2) I'm not.
3) Because I actually read a Bible and realised how much bullshit's in there.

Yes TB... we all know what religions preach. But what worries me is what religions cause. Their real effects compared against their claims.

It isn't nice. Religions have yet to help to bring people together instead of dividing them. You can preach all you want about the words of the holy men... but then you have catholic vs protestant in Ireland, Shiite vs Sunni all over the Muslim world, Hiduism vs Islam, Jews vs Islam...etc...etc....etc...

You say we got it wrong. I think maybe they got it right, the message was wrong, confusing and contradictory.

Meh I think that you have blowed it out of preportion. Of course religoin has aided manind as well as harmed. Everything that us humans come up with has that power.

You might as well say that you are waiting for Banks to help people, it amounts to the same argument.

People will find many ways to divide into Us and Them, not the least of methoeds being patriotism huh!:D

You are correct we need Intellectual Evolution maybe to get there you need faith in something better, maybe not, maybe you just do it because it the right thing to do. Some say you need God to get there. I believe that. Whatever it takes to get you to "that place" where you begin to break down barriers.

And the first barrier we should break is the though that a God is needed to get there. Because, you see, if you make the belief of a God a requirement for this "better place"-salvation thing, you are already discriminating a lot of people.

Meh I think that you have blowed it out of preportion. Of course religoin has aided manind as well as harmed. Everything that us humans come up with has that power.

You might as well say that you are waiting for Banks to help people, it amounts to the same argument.

People will find many ways to divide into Us and Them, not the least of methoeds being patriotism huh!:D

mmmm... can you be more specific on how religion has helped mankind?

Patriotism hasn't help to bring people together, neither has religion. That's my point. I didn't said religion was the only thing that brought people apart.

And the first barrier we should break is the though that a God is needed to get there. Because, you see, if you make the belief of a God a requirement for this "better place"-salvation thing, you are already discriminating a lot of people.

Some say without his blessing it will never happen but I think if we were getting closer to perfect, he may be inclined to show us more. To give more proof, to give more concrete examples. This would relieve doubt. He could show us once and for which is his "right way". If we solve all those problems we will be in good shape. Some say that was Jesus aim. If you act more like him maybe things will open up.

mmmm... can you be more specific on how religion has helped mankind?

Patriotism hasn't help to bring people together, neither has religion. That's my point. I didn't said religion was the only thing that brought people apart.

I think it is true to say that membership of a reigious community stretches accross the globe. I know that I can travel anywhere in the world and find like minded people, and get a free curry just be visiting a gurdwara.:D

There are many Christain charities around the globe, and yes of course they may well have their own agenda's in giveing aid, but I do wonder what parts of the third world would be like with Christain Aid?

Religion, specificly the big three, have shaped the world we now live in, who can really say for ill or for good?

Islam gave us maths and Christainity Science *shrug* not bad huh.

Some say without his blessing it will never happen but I think if we were getting closer to perfect, he may be inclined to show us more. To give more proof, to give more concrete examples. This would relieve doubt. He could show us once and for which is his "right way". If we solve all those problems we will be in good shape. Some say that was Jesus aim. If you act more like him maybe things will open up.

People say many things TB. Still if you believe salvation can go only thru Jesus you are leaving lots of people out. You are not helping to bring people together...unless by bringing people together you mean converting them.

Islam gave us maths and Christainity Science *shrug* not bad huh.

Bullshit. That was the ancient Greeks.

I think it is true to say that membership of a reigious community stretches accross the globe. I know that I can travel anywhere in the world and find like minded people, and get a free curry just be visiting a gurdwara.:D

Cool I love curry.

Also you can travel anywhere in the world and I promise you, you will find people who don't share your religion.


There are many Christain charities around the globe, and yes of course they may well have their own agenda's in giveing aid, but I do wonder what parts of the third world would be like with Christain Aid?


There are many secular charities too. And they do it with out government tax exemptions.


Religion, specificly the big three, have shaped the world we now live in, who can really say for ill or for good?

Yes they have...and they have done quite a lame job I must say.


Islam gave us maths and Christainity Science *shrug* not bad huh.

Arabs gave us algebra, not Islam. Christian Science? oh please. Religion has been a force opposing science, not promoting it.

Not really. I don't care.
You care enough to get defensive about it.

Also, nobody accused you of flaming as per forum rules. You were criticized for being rude to other people without provocation. If you want to defend your rudeness on the grounds that there's no forum rule against being rude, then fine, be rude. But don't expect others not to call your rudeness for what it is. You get to express your opinions, and we get to express our opinions and observations, too.

I stand by my criticism of your initial post as being an unprovoked insult that is out of keeping with the general tone of the thread.

I just enjoy words, and playing with them. It is hardly mean-spirited.
Fair enough, and it's not like what you said wasn't true or fully deserved by the other poster. As far as I'm concerned, both he and Mindset did essentially the same thing in indirectly lobbing insults at people who think differently from them. His remark was more subtle, so it gets more subtle responses, such as yours and NA's. Mindset's was more blunt, so it gets more blunt response, such as mine.

Bullshit. That was the ancient Greeks.

Meh! Okay then Islam and Christianty made them better!:D

Meh! Okay then Islam and Christianty made them better!:D

Arabs made Maths better with Algebra, but it's not like that's got anything to do with Islam. Christianity held back science, and still does where it can. Same with Islam.

People say many things TB. Still if you believe salvation can go only thru Jesus you are leaving lots of people out. You are not helping to bring people together...unless by bringing people together you mean converting them.

I sometimes wonder if you even have to "convert" them if they are acting more Christ-like. In any event Jesus is that judge not us. So let him do his job and we should do ours which is to live a "good" life. If you can get to the same place by Mohammed then do so and let Mohammed decide etc. In no case should humans decide.

Meh! Okay then Islam and Christianty made them better!:D
Really? I wonder what Galileo would say about that, if he could say anything?

Meh! Okay then Islam and Christianty made them better!:D

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." (San agustin)

Some say without his blessing it will never happen but I think if we were getting closer to perfect, he may be inclined to show us more. To give more proof, to give more concrete examples. This would relieve doubt. He could show us once and for which is his "right way". If we solve all those problems we will be in good shape. Some say that was Jesus aim. If you act more like him maybe things will open up.
I hope you don't mind me joining in here, but I don't think God (what I understand to be the reality of the Christian God, anyway) really needs our knowledge of his existence. I think that if we needed proof or examples of God's existence then we'd probably not be acting on the right motives. There is no point acting in the interests of our fellow man if the only reason we're doing it is to gain credibility with divine favour.

If God has a fundamental "right way", then it should be implicit within "doing the right thing". And doing the right thing shouldn't necessarily require God's direct instruction when it is implicit within creation. To me, the fact that the world needs improving is made clear enough in the injustices we perceive around us, and I think if there is a God, he would feel that our acting to end that injustice for its own sake would be just what he was hoping for.

I sometime wonder if you even have to "convert" them if they are acting more Christ-like. In any event Jesus is that judge not us. So let him do his job and we should do ours which is to live a "good" life. If you can get to the same place by Mohammed then do so and let Mohammed decide etc. In no case should humans decide.

So humans need some kind of divine force (Jesus or Mohammed or Sedna) to get there...but they cannot get alone?

You realize you are setting people apart (separating them between those who can get to that "place" and those who cant) not bringing them together?

Cool I love curry.

Also you can travel anywhere in the world and I promise you, you will find people who don't share your religion.

Indeed you can, and I guess in that case religoin helps to bring the unrelgious together also, damn me thats a win win that is!:D


There are many secular charities too. And they do it with out government tax exemptions.

Indeed(but wait are not all chariteis tax exempt?), but that does not dispute my claim, nor change my answer to you re: the specific question that you asked me. So I'll consider that one answered then.


Yes they have...and they have done quite a lame job I must say.

Wait! Are you saying that the world we live in is lame, and that it is ALL the fault of religion?



Arabs gave us algebra, not Islam. Christian Science? oh please. Religion has been a force opposing science, not promoting it.


So Algebra is not maths, ooooookay! So you don't know that science owes a favour to Christianity who used it to originaly understand how Gods world worked then?

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." (San agustin)
I find there is a serious -- very serious -- danger in people romanticizing religious history. Regardless of the spiritual aspirations of religious leaders or thinkers, the history is still the history, and it is clear from the histories of both Christianity and Islam that striving for temporal power in the form of political control, wealth and social status has affected a huge amount of the development of both religions. In my opinion, all that influence has been bad -- bad for the religions and bad for the people sharing the world with them. Remarks like what you quoted are, in my very firm opinion, completely secular statements that are all about power struggles, and not about religious experience.

Really? I wonder what Galileo would say about that, if he could say anything?

Perhaps we should hold a seance!:D

"The good Christian should beware of mathematicians, and all those who make empty prophecies. The danger already exists that the mathematicians have made a covenant with the devil to darken the spirit and to confine man in the bonds of Hell." (San agustin)

Sorry, which prooves which point?

Indeed you can, and I guess in that case religoin helps to bring the unrelgious together also, damn me thats a win win that is!:D


And separate them from each other. Is it painful obvious? Google Shiite-Sunni split and tell me how religion has brought them together into a win-win situation.


Indeed(but wait are not all chariteis tax exempt?), but that does not dispute my claim, nor change my answer to you re: the specific question that you asked me. So I'll consider that one answered then.

No, you haven't. Religion isn't a requirement for charity. So don't put it on your list of good things religion has done for the world.



Wait! Are you saying that the world we live in is lame, and that it is ALL the fault of religion?

No, I'm saying the world could be better. And religions have made it worse. But they are not the only ones to blame.





So Algebra is not maths, ooooookay! So you don't know that science owes a favour to Christianity who used it to originaly understand how Gods world worked then?

:rolleyes: Now you are just being silly. Algebra is maths. Arabs invented algebra, NOT mathematics as a whole. Science doesn't owes nothing to religion. Religion has opposed science from the very beginning. I don't want to start with the long long list from Galileo and Giordano Bruno to stem cell research.

Sorry, which prooves which point?

Just a quote of one of the fathers of the church to illustrate in a funny way how religion has opposed science. :p

Perhaps we should hold a seance!:D
Well, science rejects the supernatural, so I would hope that Galileo's ghost would not respond to any seance contacts anyway, on the grounds that they are impossible. ;)

Santiago, really though we could have this too and fro all night,and fun as it is, the reality is that lots of things are both divisve and bonding.

Religoin, patriotism, musical tastes, lots of things. Ultimatly then it is humanity that is to blame. If you want to blame religion as whole for all of the worlds ills, then you'll also have to blame plenty of other things.

That is really the point I'm rying to make to you.

Sorry, which prooves which point?

My point, about how Christianity held back scientists.

Just a quote of one of the fathers of the church to illustrate in a funny way how religion has opposed science. :p

Well it was a quote about maths, but I'll let you off that. Actulay what I said about the early Christian church using science in an attempt to understand the workings of Gods world is true, and yes of course I'll not deny that later they decided that scince was anti faith, but still, people huh!:D

Santiago, really though we could have this too and fro all night,and fun as it is, the reality is that lots of things are both divisve and bonding.

Religoin, patriotism, musical tastes, lots of things. Ultimatly then it is humanity that is to blame. If you want to blame religion as whole for all of the worlds ills, then you'll also have to blame plenty of other things.

That is really the point I'm rying to make to you.

I'm more than willing to blame them all. Religion included and in the top of the list, followed closely by patriotism.

Religion an patriotism are divisive forces in the world.

Music tastes?!?! Has anyone been killed for liking reggeatton (even when they do deserve it)?

Call me when the crusade against hip hop music starts. I'm joining.

Well, science rejects the supernatural, so I would hope that Galileo's ghost would not respond to any seance contacts anyway, on the grounds that they are impossible. ;)

Heh you say that I would say that science does not yet understand that which we trun 'supernatural'

Heh you say that I would say that science does not yet understand that which we trun 'supernatural'
Actually what I would say is (A) you are overworking the joke, and (B) "trun"?

I'm more than willing to blame them all. Religion included and in the top of the list, followed closely by patriotism.

Religion an patriotism are divisive forces in the world.

Music tastes?!?! Has anyone been killed for liking reggeatton (even when they do deserve it)?

Then that is your choice, but you realise that makes you guilty of being divisive on the grounds of differing philosophies? Myself I really don't care if a man is religous or not, if he is decent he can be my freind, and if he is not, then he cannot. And yes I realise that is my choice and that I am being divisive on the grounds of morality.:D

As to music, man do you not know about the mods vs rockers in Brighton in the 60's, have you never seen the film qudrophenia?

Actually what I would say is (A) you are overworking the joke, and (B) "trun"?


Well as an ex pagan, I was actualy being seriouse about the supernatureal, and trun is a misspelling of the word term.

Arabs made Maths better with Algebra, but it's not like that's got anything to do with Islam. Christianity held back science, and still does where it can. Same with Islam.
The anti-intellectualism of Islam is a rather recent phenomenon (~ 200 years), curiously enough. It seems as though the tendency towards encouraging blind fundamentalism arose largely in response to a combination of western colonial expansion and the birth of large industry.

And let's not forget that Descartes, while being devoutly religious (if philosophically naive), did more or less form the starting point of Geometry, without which the physical sciences would be floundering.

Though I agree that, in general, religion has stunted free thinking, it has contained some historical contribution to modern science. Unfortunately, of course, it has also contributed to the arrogance of many scientists, and the fact that Scientistic Fundamentalism a-la Richard Dawkins has become increasingly common in our academic establishments can be largely blamed on the aggressive attitudes of evangelical Christianity.

Then that is your choice, but you realise that makes you guilty of being divisive on the grounds of differing philosophies?

I'm being divisive on the grounds of pointing that religions divide the world?

Myself I really don't care if a man is religous or not, if he is decent he can be my freind, and if he is not, then he cannot. And yes I realise that is my choice and that I am being divisive on the grounds of morality.:D

good for you Peepelonia. Unfortunately not all religious people, not even the majority are like you.



As to music, man do you not know about the mods vs rockers in Brighton in the 60's, have you never seen the film qudrophenia?

Somehow I doubt we can compare it to the crusades. Or the european wars of religion or the Shiite-Sunni conflict.

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)

I was raised Catholic, although never very devout. I no longer am because I found Taoism to be a more peaceful philosophy.

The anti-intellectualism of Islam is a rather recent phenomenon (~ 200 years), curiously enough. It seems as though the tendency towards encouraging blind fundamentalism arose largely in response to a combination of western colonial expansion and the birth of large industry.

And let's not forget that Descartes, while being devoutly religious (if philosophically naive), did more or less form the starting point of Geometry, without which the physical sciences would be floundering.

Though I agree that, in general, religion has stunted free thinking, it has contained some historical contribution to modern science. Unfortunately, of course, it has also contributed to the arrogance of many scientists, and the fact that Scientistic Fundamentalism a-la Richard Dawkins has become increasingly common in our academic establishments can be largely blamed on the aggressive attitudes of evangelical Christianity.

Religion engulfed every part of life for a long long time. Only recently there has existence something as living outside of religion. Christianity appropriated all intellectual research in europe for all the middle ages. They took control of it, they promoted only while it held together with their dogma when it didn't...well there goes Galileo.


Scientific Fundamentalism?

Fundamentalists: believe 2+2 =5 because It Is Written. Somewhere. They have a lot of trouble on their tax returns.

"Moderate" believers: live their lives on the basis that 2+2=4. but go regularly to church to be told that 2+2 once made 5, or will one day make 5, or in a very real and spiritual sense should make 5.

"Moderate" Scientist: know that 2+2 =4 but think it impolite to say so too loudly as people who think 2+2=5 might be offended.

Fundamentalist Scientist: "Oh for pity's sake. HERE. Two pebbles. Two more pebbles. FOUR pebbles. What is WRONG with you people?"

:p

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

1) Many aboriginal people in Canada tend to be extremely Catholic, because the Catholic church (starting with the Jesuits) really made an effort to effect conversion, and also ran many of the Residential schools that many of our people were forced to attend. Therefore, my background with the religion has been in trying desperately to avoid that crazy level of Catholic fervour...my mother hated the church and didn't expose us to it, thankfully.
2) Not.
3) Never was.

I hope you don't mind me joining in here, but I don't think God (what I understand to be the reality of the Christian God, anyway) really needs our knowledge of his existence. I think that if we needed proof or examples of God's existence then we'd probably not be acting on the right motives. There is no point acting in the interests of our fellow man if the only reason we're doing it is to gain credibility with divine favour.

Your motives for doing "good" are your own. What works for you might not work for someone else. I may need a reason to get out of bed. You may not.


If God has a fundamental "right way", then it should be implicit within "doing the right thing". And doing the right thing shouldn't necessarily require God's direct instruction when it is implicit within creation. To me, the fact that the world needs improving is made clear enough in the injustices we perceive around us, and I think if there is a God, he would feel that our acting to end that injustice for its own sake would be just what he was hoping for.

Well said and how he has conducted things. Figure it out for yourself. You will know when you get it right.

Sorry, which prooves which point?

Mathematics can be neither Good nor Evil. It attributing something to it that does not apply. The application of that may be used for Evil or Good purposes. By itself it is neither. Mathematics has no morality what so ever. It teaches possibly the only fundamental truth of the universe. 1=1. Just about anywhere in the universe. I can't stand it when Christians do this. For what it worth I apologize.

Religion engulfed every part of life for a long long time. Only recently there has existence something as living outside of religion. Christianity appropriated all intellectual research in europe for all the middle ages. They took control of it, they promoted only while it held together with their dogma when it didn't...well there goes Galileo.
'course. The Western World was totally under the thumb of the Church (or churches) for most of its existence. But even within that oppressive religious totalitarianism, science, philosophy and mathematics were able to grow, albeit a tremendously stunted growth. So while it may have exerted tendencies towards repression of intellectual development, it didn't completely eliminate them.

Not that I'm standing up for them; just noting that it wasn't as complete a repression as we commonly think.

Scientific Fundamentalism?
-Totally unfair Snip-
I did lawl, but what I meant was the sort of idea that "only that which can be described by Science exists". There is a growing tendency among Scientists to assert that Science is the all-encompassing doctrine, and that things like fiction and mysticism are inherently dangerous. Or, to continue the metaphor,

"2+2=4. We will shun anything you might have to say if you so much as breathe the possibility that 2+2=5 could be true in any way whatsoever or use it as a literary device."

'course. The Western World was totally under the thumb of the Church (or churches) for most of its existence. But even within that oppressive religious totalitarianism, science, philosophy and mathematics were able to grow, albeit a tremendously stunted growth. So while it may have exerted tendencies towards repression of intellectual development, it didn't completely eliminate them.

Not that I'm standing up for them; just noting that it wasn't as complete a repression as we commonly think.

Not sure what part of my post lead you to believe that I argued that religion totally repressed science. :confused:


I did lawl, but what I meant was the sort of idea that "only that which can be described by Science exists". There is a growing tendency among Scientists to assert that Science is the all-encompassing doctrine, and that things like fiction and mysticism are inherently dangerous. Or, to continue the metaphor,

"2+2=4. We will shun anything you might have to say if you so much as breathe the possibility that 2+2=5 could be true in any way whatsoever or use it as a literary device."

It is a joke. There are no such thing as fundamentalist Scientist. No real scientist would say that his theories are immune to disproof.

Sceintist would tell you "2+2=4... 2+2=5 you say? Show me."

I was going to reply to the questions in the OP when I saw them this morning but I figured it'd be one of those threads that just dies a quick death. Since I was apparently wrong, and since at least one person further up the thread has said they'd use it to get some kind of handle on where certain people were coming from in future threads on religion, I'll say my piece. (I've never actually committed this stuff to text before now, so it might end up a bit bloggy... I'll try to be brief).

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
I was baptised into the Church of England in 1971. We almost immediately relocated back to Scotland and I grew up in a family that attended Church of Scotland services every Sunday, attending Sunday School (ages 5 to 12) and Bible Class (ages 13 to 15) every week until I was 15. My father was a Kirk Elder and a member of the Congregational Board until he died in early 2007, and actually took one of the groups at Bible Class. My mother ran the junior Sunday School for a while, and is still involved on some Church committees. In other words, I had a reasonably solid grounding in Christianity.

3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?
I don't think it would be accurate to say that I've ever actually been a Christian. Yes, I attended Church and the associated groups noted above, but I consider myself to have been a child during those times. I'm not sure that I ever actually believed, since I don't think I was mature enough to think it all through for myself and then, when I did, I found myself without any faith in what the churches teach. It's tempting to say that "I have put away childish things", but that might be a little too dismissive.

If we assume that I was, in fact, Christian, simply by dint of the fact that I attended Church, then I suppose that the first doubts that I can remember were prompted by the Bible that we used at Sunday School. The start of my time at Sunday School (1976) coincided with the introduction of a new translation of the Bible, the Good News Bible. I already had another one -- a rather nice KJV (very small, with a lovely, zippable, leather cover, wafer-thin but strangely tough pages and numerous colour plates scattered throughout) -- which I'd been given by my grandmother, and I noticed that, as time went on, some of the stuff we were being taught from the new text didn't quite marry up with what was in the old text.

The new version, from which we were read excerpts each weekend, was certainly much easier to follow, but it wasn't the same, which just didn't ring true for something that I'd already heard people describe as the "Word of God". Not long afterwards I started reading collections of stories from Greek and Roman mythology, and noticed that the exact details of each story occasionally varied depending on which book I was reading them from. From there, it was a very short intuitive leap to see that the different Bibles were the same sort of idea.

And that was the beginning. I've never Believed, as such, and I've gone through little phases of being militantly anti-religion or entirely apathetic about the whole thing ever since. I've made the effort to read the Bible through, cover-to-cover -- just in case it turned out that I'd missed something (which, as it happens, I had, but only things that confirmed to me that I had taken the right stance). I can see the value in living life in what many people would describe as a Christian way (i.e. just being nice to everyone else by default), but it's nothing that the Golden Rule doesn't cover, from where I look at things, and I confess that I frequently find myself quite stunned when I encounter Biblical literalists as I go about my life.

In short, then, I've thought about it (a lot), I've read the Bible itself, I've read countless exigeses of varying degrees of antiquity and I've listened to more people than I care to recall trying to spell it out for me, and my opinion at the end of it all is that the Bible and therefore, by extension, the Christian worldview, doesn't make sense.

There's more, but nobody really wants or needs to be subjected to it, so I'll just leave my answer as is. :)

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)
1. I was born into a Catholic background.
3. I quit because it is bollocks. Once you grow up and use your brain you outgrow certain ideologies.

1) Was born into a Catholic family and went to Catholic private school from K-8

2)Unofficially jumped ship and became something of an agnostic, then subsequently joined the LDS (Mormon) Church.

So I went from Christian to not really practicing Christian to Christian again.

The irony being, of course, there are some Christians who would tell you I've never been one and am not now. To them I say "Meh."

Religion engulfed every part of life for a long long time. Only recently there has existence something as living outside of religion. Christianity appropriated all intellectual research in europe for all the middle ages. They took control of it, they promoted only while it held together with their dogma when it didn't...well there goes Galileo.


Scientific Fundamentalism?

Fundamentalists: believe 2+2 =5 because It Is Written. Somewhere. They have a lot of trouble on their tax returns.

"Moderate" believers: live their lives on the basis that 2+2=4. but go regularly to church to be told that 2+2 once made 5, or will one day make 5, or in a very real and spiritual sense should make 5.

"Moderate" Scientist: know that 2+2 =4 but think it impolite to say so too loudly as people who think 2+2=5 might be offended.

Fundamentalist Scientist: "Oh for pity's sake. HERE. Two pebbles. Two more pebbles. FOUR pebbles. What is WRONG with you people?"

:p

And Mormons say "2+2+1 = 5" and other Christians get mad at them for adding that extra 1.

(This was said in jest. Any resemblance it might have borne to an actual argument or criticism is purely coincidental.)

And Mormons say "2+2+1 = 5" and other Christians get mad at them for adding that extra 1.

(This was said in jest. Any resemblance it might have borne to an actual argument or criticism is purely coincidental.)

LOL!!!

you are asking for a pyre.:p

All my family are very BIG Roman Catholics (and I dont mean fat)!
I never really subscribed
The reason? I sense an order to existence that never had kids.

LOL!!!

you are asking for a pyre.:p

Yeah I know I couldn't resist. To quote Pete "Maverick" Mitchell:

"I had the shot, I saw no danger, so I took it!"
-Top Gun

I was raised in the Nazarene Church, I have been a spirit filled christian for many years and a member of the Methodist Church.

I was raised a Catholic, and that's what I say whenever anyone asks.

I was raised in the Nazarene Church, I have been a spirit filled christian for many years and a member of the Methodist Church.
I'm a spirit filled Atheist :D

(although perhaps not of the same spirits as you)

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)

1) I was raised into it, and unsuccesfully brought to church to teach me "morals". Not a Christian any longer
3)Because religion has usurped morals in the world, and the assumption that morals are only obtained through religion is ludicrous. Also is the belief in some "sky-tyrant" that'll torch you in Hell while claiming to love you. Furthermore, I find many Christians to be narrow-minded fools who only emulate what their church tells them, and are not capable of free thought nor intelligent discussion of their beliefs, which, as soon as intelligent debate is brought into disussion, the basis for them dissolves like sugar in water. Plus, I don't know if God/said diety worshiped is nice, and if he isn't, or is, cannot be ascertained by anything but books that may be entirely false, so I'm taking the chance that I'm going to be torched by some "loving" diety than submit to him.

It is a joke. There are no such thing as fundamentalist Scientist. No real scientist would say that his theories are immune to disproof.
They're not saying "my theories are immune to disproof". They're saying "the only valid system of truth is that of science". That's basically what Scientific realism is about, and what I've called Scientific fundamentalism (Reductionist Scientific Realism, by another name) is very much a progression from that.

And there are "real" scientists who propose it. Unless of course you want to assert that evolutionary biology isn't "real science", in which case I couldn't present you with any examples (but there are no doubt others that would count).

I'm a spirit filled Atheist :D

(although perhaps not of the same spirits as you)Amen brother!

They're not saying "my theories are immune to disproof". They're saying "the only valid system of truth is that of science". That's basically what Scientific realism is about, and what I've called Scientific fundamentalism (Reductionist Scientific Realism, by another name) is very much a progression from that.

And there are "real" scientists who propose it. Unless of course you want to assert that evolutionary biology isn't "real science", in which case I couldn't present you with any examples (but there are no doubt others that would count).

Scientific Realism is a bit more complicated than "the only valid system of truth is that of science". Plus science is a system that depends on evidence. So if you can provide the evidence scientist will change their mind, this is clearly not fundamentalism.

And Mormons say "2+2+1 = 5" and other Christians get mad at them for adding that extra 1.

You Mormons, throwing bits on to the original statement. :p

I'm a spirit filled Atheist :D

(although perhaps not of the same spirits as you)


I believe that you are correct in that assessment :rolleyes:

I believe that you are correct in that assessment :rolleyes:

You don't drink?

How can you see God?

And Mormons say "2+2+1 = 5" and other Christians get mad at them for adding that extra 1.

That's ok, we jews find all of you christians a bit daft for prattling on about that second "2" in the first place.

That's ok, we jews find all of you christians a bit daft for prattling on about that second "2" in the first place.

I can see why. It's you Jews that got all + signy about that second 2 in the first place.

Born Catholic
Raised Catholic
Believe more than ever
Go to mass weekly and receive the Eucharist

You don't drink?

How can you see God?


Usually people who acuse others of something are trying to hide the fact that they are really the ones indulging.

Usually people who acuse others of something are trying to hide the fact that they are really the ones indulging.

I don't particularly see him denying that fact...what's your point?

Usually people who acuse others of something are trying to hide the fact that they are really the ones indulging.

I really don't understand this post. :confused:

You are correct in your belief that I don't drink beverages that can make a person drunk. However I would appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to make fun of my God.

You are correct in your belief that I don't drink beverages that can make a person drunk. However I would appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to make fun of my God.

well, frankly, your god is kinda funny.

You are correct in your belief that I don't drink beverages that can make a person drunk. However I would appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to make fun of my God.

Why not drink?
Jesus drank wine. We drink it at every Sunday mass.

well, frankly, your god is kinda funny.


People who don't know what they are talking about should keep quite. :rolleyes:

People who don't know what they are talking about should keep quite. :rolleyes:

His god isn't funny...it is actually pretty SCARY!!!

http://www.evilbible.com/Evil%20Bible%20Quotes.htm

You are correct in your belief that I don't drink beverages that can make a person drunk. However I would appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to make fun of my God.

If I had the power of God I could stand a little teasing--still, if it bothers you, take comfort in the fact that virtually everyone on NationStates General is going to Hell--we even took a test once.

Why not drink?
Jesus drank wine. We drink it at every Sunday mass.


A glass of wine with your supper is good for your stomach, however most people don't stop at just one.

His god isn't funny...it is actually pretty SCARY!!!

http://www.evilbible.com/Evil%20Bible%20Quotes.htm

I'm sorry you feel that way.

Scientific Realism is a bit more complicated than "the only valid system of truth is that of science". Plus science is a system that depends on evidence. So if you can provide the evidence scientist will change their mind, this is clearly not fundamentalism.
It's a bit more complicated than that, but that is in essence what it's about. And in dealing with changing understandings, I'll note two things:

1) It is entirely consistent for a religious fundamentalist to accept a change to their beliefs issued by the authority behind their faith that is not necessarily a challenge to the fundamentals of their faith. For instance, the church saying "It turns out the cross Jesus was crucified on was an X shape" could be quite happily accepted and the imagery changed, even by fundamentalists, because although the crucifix is a big Christian image, it's not a fundamental part of their beliefs.

2) In a purely literal understanding of "fundamentalism", even a change in what you understand to be the fundamentals of your beliefs doesn't necessarily make you any less of a fundamentalist, as long as you maintain a sense of what those fundamentals are. As long as you maintain a sense that there is a solid and well-defined core to your belief system, you can be said to be fundamentalist, even when that core itself might change over time.

But I'm quibbling over semantics. My point is that there is an unhealthy attitude of saying that Science really does encompass the entire of truth, it is held by some current scientists, and we have religious institutions to thank for that.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I'm sorry you believe that nonsense. :p

People who don't know what they are talking about should keep quite. :rolleyes:

I'm so terribly scared......is your god going to come beat me up if I don't?

You are correct in your belief that I don't drink beverages that can make a person drunk. However I would appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to make fun of my God.

If that's what you're after, you came to the wrong place.

I'm so terribly scared......is your god going to come beat me up if I don't?

I do not believe you are going down an advisable road, Neo Art.

People who don't know what they are talking about should keep quite. :rolleyes:I've never read a more eloquent last post.

i've never read a more eloquent last post.

lol!!!

Thread win!

I do not believe you are going down an advisable road, Neo Art.

well, may lightning strike me down etcetera etcetera

You are correct in your belief that I don't drink beverages that can make a person drunk. However I would appreciate it if you wouldn't attempt to make fun of my God.

I think it's my job to make fun of god.

If the bible is to be believed then he's a bit of a bastard.

well, may lightning strike me down etcetera etcetera

If this ends-up where I think it is leading, a mod might become involved.

If this ends-up where I think it is leading, a mod might become involved.

I know mods are powerful but assuming god exists, I'm pretty sure he could take care of Neo Art even with their disapproval.

If this ends-up where I think it is leading, a mod might become involved.

for what purpose? I have insulted no person. I have instigated no argument. I have maligned no poster. I have merely expressed my particular views about a particular religion, namely, that I find it rather silly.

If one takes offense to that, I fear that I have no control over how he responds to it, but I make no attack upon a poster, I made a critique upon a belief.

I know mods are powerful but assuming god exists, I'm pretty sure he could take care of Neo Art even with their disapproval.

Assuming this argument involves them, God will be the last thing Neo Art worries about.

for what purpose? I have insulted no person. I have instigated no argument. I have maligned no poster. I have merely expressed my particular views about a particular religion, namely, that I find it rather silly.

If one takes offense to that, I fear that I have no control over how he responds to it, but I make no attack upon a poster, I made a critique upon a belief.

Even if you are speaking your mind, charging someone on such a personal topic in such a sarcastic manner is bound to have repercussions.

Assuming this argument involves them, God will be the last thing Neo Art worries about.

Even if you are speaking your mind, charging someone on such a personal topic in such a rude manner is bound to have repercussions.

and I again contend I have said nothing that violates any rules. I attacked no person. I stated that the biblical version of god is a rather silly concept. That is perfectly within the rules to do so. If you think my comments violated forum rules, report them. But as it stands, it's fairly well settled that attacks on ideas, arguments, and beliefs are perfectly acceptable.

Was I rude about it? Perhaps, but I'll note that there's no obligation on this forum for me to be nice

Assuming this argument involves them, God will be the last thing Neo Art worries about.
You'd have thought God was the last thing most people worried about...

You'd have thought God was the last thing most people worried about...

If you have class then the last thing you worry about is the wallpaper.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)

Well, this is kind of a straight forward one. My mother was Catholic and my father was Lutheran ((yeah, interesting combination, I know)). Neither were particularly devout, but I was baptized, went to church, and had my Confirmation, blah, blah, blah. But, collectively as a family, we much prefer our sleeping in on Sundays ;) .

2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?

This is the more complicated one, lol. The best way to go about this is to say I believe in God, Jesus as being divine, and the Holy Trinity, Heaven, Hell, etc, etc.... However, thus far, I've been unable to really "connect" with any real established religion, though Lutheran still remains the closest in what I believe. The problem for me was that there were all these people interpreting the bible, or other "words of God" for me. Who are they to do that? I believed, personally, that it was up to the individual to interpret the word of God as it came to him or her. Point-in-case: recently the pope introduced new mortal sins into Catholicism, such as spending too much time on the internet, not going green, road rage. My response was basically: "What the fuck is he smoking? (and where can I get some?)" The whole "endless guilt" also pissed me off at times. God's already acknowledged that we're just gonna suck at listening sometimes. He gets it, we get it. We'll work on fixing that. Moving on....

So, in the end, I guess I've always viewed faith and being a Christian as a personal journey, finding the best way to worship God. Me? Personally I just try to praise him by trying to help others at every turn I get and spreading the Word in this way. What about the bigger questions, such as homosexuality, other religions, etc...? Well, that's out of my range of knowledge. My mindset has always been to do what I feel is right and necessary on my end, and have faith that God knows what he's doing with the rest of the world.

If you have class then the last thing you worry about is the wallpaper.
I stand corrected.

I stand corrected.

I'm just glad someone got the reference.

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?


1. Born into a family with the mother being an evangelical and the father being an ex catholic
2. N/A
3. I read the Bible.

Even if you are speaking your mind, charging someone on such a personal topic in such a sarcastic manner is bound to have repercussions.

I wasnt aware we werent allowed to say mean things about religion on NSG anymore. Can someone foward me that memo?


If stuff like what Neo Art said gets mods involved, I either would have been perma-bannd by now, or more likely, would have quit NSG.

I was born into a Catholic family (as of now, Mom is lapsed and Dad's a Buddhist). I don't think I ever really understood Christianity beyond the basics. Now, since organized religion ("baa!") disgusts me, I remain firmly nondenominational. The crazies can keep their Jesus-hates-fags-this-I-know, etc. crap to themselves.
Wanna insult my god? Go ahead. I don't care. Burn a Bible (written entirely by humans). Desecrate a crucifix (it's a symbol). All you'll get is a raised eyebrow or two at the most. I'm even open to the idea that God may not even exist!

I can see why. It's you Jews that got all + signy about that second 2 in the first place.

Hee! Nicely done.

Religion engulfed every part of life for a long long time. Only recently there has existence something as living outside of religion. Christianity appropriated all intellectual research in europe for all the middle ages. They took control of it, they promoted only while it held together with their dogma when it didn't...well there goes Galileo.
Very convenient excuse, yes? History shows scientist after scientist (Or thinkers if you go back to the proto-sciences of the time) who were religious or worked in religious institutions (Gregor Mendel anyone? You know, father of modern genetics and Roman Catholic priest whose fellows in his abbey encouraged him to start working and study those pea plants) which disproves your assertion that religion has always held back science... and, uh, well, you see it's because they HAD to be religious. :rolleyes:

Talk about cherry picking your facts.

Very convenient excuse, yes? History shows scientist after scientist (Or thinkers if you go back to the proto-sciences of the time) who were religious or worked in religious institutions (Gregor Mendel anyone? You know, father of modern genetics and Roman Catholic priest whose fellows in his abbey encouraged him to start working and study those pea plants) which disproves your assertion that religion has always held back science... and, uh, well, you see it's because they HAD to be religious. :rolleyes:

Talk about cherry picking your facts.

Are you really going to deny that religion only accepts science when it happens to coincide with their religious dogma? I simply point to the theory of evolution and how "disputed" it is among the religious as my evidence.

If you ask me, I say that science and religion augment each other.

I am not a Christian because Christianity, and Christians, are stupid.

Warned for trolling. You might want to check the One Stop Rules Shop on acceptable debate.


http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=8784641&postcount=3
Trolling: Posts that are made with the aim of angering people. (like 'ALL JEWS ARE [insert vile comment here]' for example). While Trolls often make these posts strictly in an attempt to provoke negative comment, it is still trolling even if you actually hold those beliefs. Intent is difficult to prove over the internet, so mods will work under their best assumptions.

In this example, replace "ALL JEWS ARE____" with "ALL CHRISTIANS ARE STUPID."

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)
I was baptized, confirmed and attended Roman Catholic schools from nursery to 12th grade. Went to church until I was about 15 or 16 and, in my younger years, attended the latin masses (that was all there was then). I have not been a practicing catholic in the sense of attending and participating in church regularly since then.

I feel the church and most organized religions (Judaism, Baptist whatever) generally practice discrimination in excluding women from their hierarchical governance, policy making and church affairs (saying mass, sitting downstairs in temple with men), and are self perpetuating male bastions only.

In addition, I find their policies divisive, intrusive, improperly political and improperly injected into government, and I believe in the USA constitution which requires a separation of church and state.

To me, the church and other organized religions often create more haters and hate by pitting groups against one another in the name of god--kind of like the good old days of the crusades. Most of the time, they are trying to control womens' bodies, privacy and choices, but they do the same thing with gay men too and sometimes entire countries, and serve only to instill and perpetuate hatred against groups of people.

Finally, the authority exerted over the membership of most organized religions is tyrannical in nature in that they preach that if the tenets of the church/temple are not followed, one is damned to hell or suffer a similar fate. I don't believe that sends the appropriate message to anyone and it certainly does not encourage peace throughout the world.

Amen.

I was baptized, confirmed and attended Roman Catholic schools from nursery to 12th grade. Went to church until I was about 15 or 16 and, in my younger years, attended the latin masses (that was all there was then). I have not been a practicing catholic in the sense of attending and participating in church regularly since then.

I feel the church and most organized religions (Judaism, Baptist whatever) generally practice discrimination in excluding women from their hierarchical governance, policy making and church affairs (saying mass, sitting downstairs in temple with men), and are self perpetuating male bastions only.

In addition, I find their policies divisive, intrusive, improperly political and improperly injected into government, and I believe in the USA constitution which requires a separation of church and state.

To me, the church and other organized religions often create more haters and hate by pitting groups against one another in the name of god--kind of like the good old days of the crusades. Most of the time, they are trying to control womens' bodies, privacy and choices, but they do the same thing with gay men too and sometimes entire countries, and serve only to instill and perpetuate hatred against groups of people.

Finally, the authority exerted over the membership of most organized religions is tyrannical in nature in that they preach that if the tenets of the church/temple are not followed, one is damned to hell or suffer a similar fate. I don't believe that sends the appropriate message to anyone and it certainly does not encourage peace throughout the world.

Amen.

Damn fine post. Here's a cookie, enjoy!

Well as an ex pagan, I was actualy being seriouse about the supernatureal,
Yeah, I figured you were being serious, but I was joking.

and trun is a misspelling of the word term.
Oh, I thought it was some kind of UK or west coast slang that I wasn't familiar with.

and I again contend I have said nothing that violates any rules. I attacked no person. I stated that the biblical version of god is a rather silly concept. That is perfectly within the rules to do so. If you think my comments violated forum rules, report them. But as it stands, it's fairly well settled that attacks on ideas, arguments, and beliefs are perfectly acceptable.

Was I rude about it? Perhaps, but I'll note that there's no obligation on this forum for me to be nice
Hm...before going out to dinner I yelled at Mindset for making the exact same defense of his rudeness. Am I going to have to scold my friend, too, to be consistent? Of course, your rudeness was slightly less rude than his, but still. As much of a stick-in-the-mud as Kormantor might be -- abstaining from alcohol so the rest of us don't have to? -- he did make it clear that he would prefer his religion not to be mocked. I think that's a fool's wish on NSG, but I didn't really think that alone was begging for a counter-mock. Just saying. I don't really understand why religion has this effect on civility -- on both sides.

Hm...before going out to dinner I yelled at Mindset for making the exact same defense of his rudeness. Am I going to have to scold my friend, too, to be consistent? Of course, your rudeness was slightly less rude than his, but still. As much of a stick-in-the-mud as Kormantor might be -- abstaining from alcohol so the rest of us don't have to? -- he did make it clear that he would prefer his religion not to be mocked. I think that's a fool's wish on NSG, but I didn't really think that alone was begging for a counter-mock. Just saying. I don't really understand why religion has this effect on civility -- on both sides.

To be fair, The Mindset flat out said Christians were stupid. Neo never did. I also think requesting your religion not to be mocked is foolish. Ill stop mocking it when it stops demanding I make sacrifices to it in my day to day life. Id prefer not to have their morals forced on me, but I dont get that wish.

*recoils from Mur's beatings, because they wont be the good kind*

I was baptized, confirmed and attended Roman Catholic schools from nursery to 12th grade. Went to church until I was about 15 or 16 and, in my younger years, attended the latin masses (that was all there was then). I have not been a practicing catholic in the sense of attending and participating in church regularly since then.

I feel the church and most organized religions (Judaism, Baptist whatever) generally practice discrimination in excluding women from their hierarchical governance, policy making and church affairs (saying mass, sitting downstairs in temple with men), and are self perpetuating male bastions only.

In addition, I find their policies divisive, intrusive, improperly political and improperly injected into government, and I believe in the USA constitution which requires a separation of church and state.

To me, the church and other organized religions often create more haters and hate by pitting groups against one another in the name of god--kind of like the good old days of the crusades. Most of the time, they are trying to control womens' bodies, privacy and choices, but they do the same thing with gay men too and sometimes entire countries, and serve only to instill and perpetuate hatred against groups of people.

Finally, the authority exerted over the membership of most organized religions is tyrannical in nature in that they preach that if the tenets of the church/temple are not followed, one is damned to hell or suffer a similar fate. I don't believe that sends the appropriate message to anyone and it certainly does not encourage peace throughout the world.

Amen.
Good points, nicely expressed. I also find that most of my issues with religion are with organized religion, meaning the hierarchical organization of religions and their power structures. When religion is personal, it is seldom a problem, I think. But when it gets involved in society and social rules, Katie bar the door. The power of god(s) is absolute, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

To be fair, The Mindset flat out said Christians were stupid. Neo never did. I also think requesting your religion not to be mocked is foolish. Ill stop mocking it when it stops demanding I make sacrifices to it in my day to day life. Id prefer not to have their morals forced on me, but I dont get that wish.

*recoils from Mur's beatings, because they wont be the good kind*
Well, actually, no beatings tonight. Sorry. ;) Your point is well taken.

I'll retract that criticism and beg Neo Art's pardon -- this time.

But I'm watching him. ;) I don't know why but I just have this desire to see one NSG religion thread not devolve into a big hostile circle-bitch. Maybe that's as foolish as asking one's religion not to be mocked, but there it is.

I have a temp gig tomorrow, so you kids will have the whole day without me to drag this down to the gutter. :D

I don't know why but I just have this desire to see one NSG religion thread not devolve into a big hostile circle-bitch. Maybe that's as foolish as asking one's religion not to be mocked, but there it is.

It'd be nice, it really would.

Well, actually, no beatings tonight. Sorry. ;) Your point is well taken.

Fuck.

I'll retract that criticism and beg Neo Art's pardon -- this time.

Great, Ive contributed to the growth of his ego.;)


But I'm watching him. ;) I don't know why but I just have this desire to see one NSG religion thread not devolve into a big hostile circle-bitch. Maybe that's as foolish as asking one's religion not to be mocked, but there it is.


This is a fair request, and I will admit that I personally could go a long way towards making that happening b toning it down.

Tell you what, the next religion thread, Ill be nice. Well, I at least wont fire the first shots (like I usually do).

I have a temp gig tomorrow, so you kids will have the whole day without me to drag this down to the gutter. :D

Good luck.:D

1. Born to a strict YEC mother, when to a YEC church for quite some time.
2. Currently a Christian, because I like the thought of an all-loving, all-caring God, who would give up anything for us.

Fuck.
Sorry, maybe next time. :tongue:


Great, Ive contributed to the growth of his ego.;)
See what you've done? That might earn you that beating after all. :D


This is a fair request, and I will admit that I personally could go a long way towards making that happening b toning it down.

Tell you what, the next religion thread, Ill be nice. Well, I at least wont fire the first shots (like I usually do).
Well, I don't want to kill your fun, but it's much appreciated.


Good luck.:D
edit: Bah! You fixed your spelling and ruined the best typo of the thread. :tongue:

Well, I don't want to kill your fun, but it's much appreciated.


Ill be nice. Just for you. You can quote me on that.

To be serious for a moment. I dont "enjoy" ripping on Christianity (thats a lie, I enjoy some light ribbing). Its just, some people's mentality about it makes me really angry, and Im moody (go figure :p) and have a pretty weak hold on my temper if Ive had a bad day, so I pick fights.


edit: Bah! You fixed your spelling and ruined the best typo of the thread. :tongue:

Muwhaha.

It'd be nice, it really would.I think it can be done. Not that the chances are high, or anything.

1. Born to a strict YEC mother, when to a YEC church for quite some time

What does YEC mean?

Ill be nice. Just for you. You can quote me on that.

To be serious for a moment. I dont "enjoy" ripping on Christianity (thats a lie, I enjoy some light ribbing). Its just, some people's mentality about it makes me really angry, and Im moody and have a pretty weak hold on my temper if Ive had a bad day, so I pick fights.

But Ill hold back. Everyone witnessing this can quote me on that :p



Muwhaha.
I will quote you on it. You'll come to regret those words. :D

What does YEC mean?'Young Earth Creationist' I believe.

What does YEC mean?'Young Earth Creationist' I believe.LA is right. (Whoa, that sounded a little freaky when I read that. o_0)

1. Born to a strict YEC mother, when to a YEC church for quite some time.
2. Currently a Christian, because I like the thought of an all-loving, all-caring God, who would give up anything for us.

One thing I've always wondered, because I hear this sort of reasoning a lot, perhaps somebody could clear it up for me...

I often hear people claim to be Christian (or whatever religion, but, given that I live where I do, most often Christian) because they like the idea of God. But that doesn't make sense to me... I mean, I really like the idea of having no debt, but that won't make my student loans go away. I really like the idea of peace, but that won't cause an end to all wars. There's plenty of things that I would like to be the case that aren't. So why does simply liking the idea convince you in the case of religion? I mean, it's not as if one can decide what to believe. (at least, I can't...)

What does YEC mean?

As noted by others, YEC = Young Earth Creationist.

They believe that the date of creation, as calculated by Bishop Ussher in the 17th century, is pretty close. The esteemed bishop, through careful study of the Hebrew Scriptures, determined that creation took place on the night preceeding October 23rd, 4004 BCE.

Exactly how he determined it was night when the sun didn't exist yet they're a little fuzzy on.

In any event, a YEC is convinced that the earth and the universe are less than 10,000 years old.

In other words, they ignore, in favor of the bible, all the physical evidence which points to an age of the universe in the 16 billion year range and of the earth in the 4 billion year range.

So, I have always wondered about people who have come in contact with Christianity. ITT, I have a few questions for NSG about their experience. I assume that most people here have, at some point, been exposed to Christianity, whether being raised in a Christian home, having been one or is now one. So here are my questions:

1) What is your background with the religion? (born into, gone to church, currently a christian, etc)
2) If you are now a Christian, why are you?
3) If you are not a Christian, but were previously one, why did you quit being one?

I think that covers the basics. Just interested in seeing what everyone says. :)
I was raised Christian, but I always had doubts about it. I found myself wondering why if this "god" was so powerful he couldn't just give the various physical signs I'd ask for when praying (ie. "if you can hear me, make this colour appear on the wall") and I noticed when confirmation classes gave out booklets, one of the things the booklet said was "whenever you find yourself with doubts like 'what if other religions are right' remember that these are only doubts the DEVIL fills your mind with"; demonizing doubt with blatant scare-tactics.

And these suspicions gradually became stronger, like in grade 8 social studies when they were listing and comparing the major religions of the world. I'd also learned about issues wherein the religious influence tended to promote the side I'd strongly disagree with, such as on abortion, for example. I hadn't particularily liked religion, and I was inclined to reject it. I think I did, though I'm not completely sure, and even if I did, I probably didn't communicate that much. Later still, I'd later end up in circumstances (ie. type 1 diabetes) for which the religious influence would be even less appealing to me. (ie. opposition to ESCR)

On top of that, with the variety of perspectives the Internet provided, I eventually found out about major scientists, like Richard Dawkins and Carl Sagan, who were opposed to religion, and I knew by then that this wasn't just my own perspective; my own doubts converged with their arguments and I felt like I was being confirmed as a non-Christian.