NationStates Jolt Archive

I have always loved the paintings of Pieter Breughel, and one question that occasionally comes into mind in idle moments is: do several of the painitings like Hunters in the snow and the Massacre of the innocents show one village from different angles or are they just fantasy landscapes?

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Pieter_Brueghel_the_Elder

Is there a way to map out the positions of the buildings and the hills and rivers back in each painting into a 3d model so that they could be compared to one another?

Maybe I to much time on my hands for idle thought, it will be even worse when I retire.

are you asking if both paintings use the same real life village for its setting?

I don't quite get what you're talking about.

Having looked at the two mentioned images, I don't see a multi-angle view so much as some simple errors or deliberate manipulations of perspective. But they appear to be otherwise realistic, single viewpoint renderings of real places, as opposed to the obviously fantastical paintings.

are you asking if both paintings use the same real life village for its setting?
Oh, that's a question I didn't think of. It's possible. Bosch did. I'm going to look at the images again.

EDIT after examining the images again: There is a church tower in both paintings that appears to be the same building. It is in the center, up the lane, in Massacre of the Innocents and in the middle background, also roughly center, in Hunters. I think this is the same village, viewed from a hilltop at the edge of town in Hunters and viewed from the lane on which the church stands in Massacre. From opposite sides of the church.

I do believe there are programs that will render a 2D image in 3D, but I think you would need more detailed images of the buildings to do that. You would likely do better to research the artist's biography and works to see if it is known whether he always painted the same town and if so, which one. Then you might be able to get real photos of the place if its historic buildings still survive. That could be a start to getting a 3D rendering of the artist's objects in the artist's style. If that's what you're looking for.

are you asking if both paintings use the same real life village for its setting?

Yes, there are a couple of others that appear to as well.

Yes, there are a couple of others that appear to as well.
it would make sense but artists do sometimes re-arrange reality to make a better composition.

it would make sense but artists do sometimes re-arrange reality to make a better composition.

After reading this I find myself wondering how would a Dalí painting look if projected in 3D.

it would make sense but artists do sometimes re-arrange reality to make a better composition.

Exactly, though I am pretty good at manipulating 3d things in my head - the paintings are too complicated.

Exactly, though I am pretty good at manipulating 3d things in my head - the paintings are too complicated.
Compare Massacre to Hunters. Focus on the church tower.

Look at Hunters. Note the ponds near the church tower in Hunters. Note the suggested line of the lane passing between the ponds and in amongst the buildings by the church tower.

Now look at Massacre of the Innocents. Focus on the church tower. Then on the line of the lane running from the foreground to the background, where the tower is. Note colorations near the bottom of the buildings. It is possible there is a hint of water in there.

I believe these are definitely the same village. It is viewed as a whole from a distance in Hunters. Just one part of it is viewed from the church tower lane in Massacre. I do not believe the artist is rearranging the buildings. He likely sketched these from life, standing in those real vantage points.

Exactly, though I am pretty good at manipulating 3d things in my head - the paintings are too complicated.
it would be a fun retirement project to make a scale model of a village based off his paintings. i dont think it would matter if it were totally correct as long as it didnt blatantly violate any of the paintings you choose to model from.

Compare Massacre to Hunters. Focus on the church tower.

Look at Hunters. Note the ponds near the church tower in Hunters. Note the suggested line of the lane passing between the ponds and in amongst the buildings by the church tower.

Now look at Massacre of the Innocents. Focus on the church tower. Then on the line of the lane running from the foreground to the background, where the tower is. Note colorations near the bottom of the buildings. It is possible there is a hint of water in there.

I believe these are definitely the same village. It is viewed as a whole from a distance in Hunters. Just one part of it is viewed from the church tower lane in Massacre. I do not believe the artist is rearranging the buildings. He likely sketched these from life, standing in those real vantage points.

I think it is the same church in Winter landscape with bird trap, from yet another angle

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pieter_Bruegel_d._%C3%84._107.jpg

I think it is the same church in Winter landscape with bird trap, from yet another angle

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Pieter_Bruegel_d._%C3%84._107.jpg
I agree. In fact, starting with these three paintings, I think you could possibly start to 3D map one section of the village, roughly, in your head.

Begin at the vantage point of Hunters and looking at the ponds and church with the lane passing between the ponds. Then go to Bird Trap -- it brings you down to the ponds with the lane passing through. Then go to Massacre of the Innocents -- it brings you to the other side of the row of buildings on the right of Bird Trap, onto the lane that was passing in the background of Bird Trap (EDIT: over the bridge, apparently, if I'm right). If you examine that row of buildings, perhaps you can figure out if they are the same buildings, i.e. a single row of buildings viewed from two sides. Then you could get an idea of what those buildings might have looked like if you could walk around them.

I think Bird Trap also shows us more of the church building itself. It is showing the church from the back. That building with the tall arched windows and suggestion of buttress-like features is the main body of the church (I don't know the names of the parts of a church). You can see how it is attached to the tower if you look closely.

That might be a better clue to getting oriented as to the angle-views of the paintings.

it would be a fun retirement project to make a scale model of a village based off his paintings. i dont think it would matter if it were totally correct as long as it didnt blatantly violate any of the paintings you choose to model from.

I think I might have a go with Blender, though me using 3d graphics software usually ends with large amounts of swearing.

I think I might have a go with Blender, though me using 3d graphics software usually ends with large amounts of swearing.

It takes a lot of practice, googling online tutorials, and if you aren't being paid, self motivation. Online tutorials help loads though. They can teach you shortcuts on how to work things out without coming out with a horribly complicated mess that will mock your sad attempts at cleaning up the vertices.