NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.aol.com/article/mich-police-boy-8-spent-10-days-with/312198

ROMULUS, Mich. (Jan. 21) - An 8-year-old boy lived for more than a week with the body of his dead mother before telling a concerned shopkeeper his mom was "in a better place," police said. Gaynell Tipado, 41, apparently died Jan. 9 in their apartment in the Detroit suburb of Romulus, and the boy survived in part by eating dried rice, butter and flour, authorities said.
The family moved to Michigan from Louisiana after surviving Hurricane Katrina in 2005. Foul play was not suspected in Tipado's death, and an autopsy was pending.
Lee Saco told The Associated Press that the boy and his mother came into Romulus Liquor regularly for about a year and a half. But four times during the past week the boy uncharacteristically walked about a block to the store by himself — sometimes through Arctic cold and other times wearing pajama bottoms.
"I questioned him, 'Where is your mom?'" Saco said when the boy first came into the store by himself to buy milk, chips, candy and bread with cash. During the next two visits, he said the boy bought a number of items, including bread.
Saco, who co-owns the store with his brother Sam, said he was curious from the beginning but his concern heightened on Monday when the boy tried to buy $34.80 worth of grocery items — including nacho cheese dip, a package each of processed ham and turkey, hamburger buns, milk, doughnuts and candy — with his mother's credit card.
Saco then asked the boy if he could speak to his mother. "Is she alive?" Saco asked the boy.
"She's in a better place," the boy replied, who later told Saco he'd tried to revive his mother by pushing on her chest in an apparent attempt at CPR.
"I sat him down, gave him chocolate milk. Then I called Romulus PD," Saco said.

The amount of social detachment we sometimes have from our neighbors is outstanding. This child lived inside his home, with the body of his dead mother for a week or so and no one noticed. It's truly sad, but my main concern is not really the story, this just serves to ilustrate a purpose.

Let us debate on the following term, detachment.

NSG, what is detachment, to you? According to Wikipedia, detachement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Detachment) is:
Detachment is a state in which a person overcomes his or her attachment to desire for things, people or concepts of the world and thus attains a heightened perspective. Detachment as release from desire and consequently from suffering...

Is detachment a healthy practice? Is it necessary? And, finally, how would you relate it in terms of this news article?

As a naturally private individual, I do find a degree of detachment both necessary, and desirable. "Detachment", however, is not coterminous with the disregard for neighbours regular relocation has bred in the UK.

I dont think we can call what this kids neighbors did "detatchment".

Buddhist monks practice detatchment. This was "not giving a shit".

Eh, I don't "Neighbor". The less I see and hear of them the better.

Is detachment a healthy practice? Is it necessary? And, finally, how would you relate it in terms of this news article?

Yes it is for those who enjoy it, no not necessary.
In terms of the article... Well if i died I suppose i would not be found until 2 weeks after my rent check was due.

Buddhist monks practice detatchment. This was "not giving a shit".

Then discuss this from the perspective of 'not giving a shit'.

Eh, I don't "Neighbor". The less I see and hear of them the better.

^^ This

Detachment, for me, is the recognition that my desire to care about something is ultimately more trouble than it's worth, but not in a spiteful way.

There's nothing particularly wrong with it unless, like a lot of things, it starts to screwing up your ability to function properly in society.

^^ This

I tend to act the same way. But if I see an 8 year old going out constantly, all the time alone and I don't see his mom around, I may feel slightly concerned and call the police for them to check on him.

Then discuss this from the perspective of 'not giving a shit'.

I care about people. Its inherent in who I am. Be they my neighbor or some random person on the street I see having some kind of issue.

"sometimes through Arctic cold and other times wearing pajama bottoms"
When it wasn't Arctic cold, he didn't bother wearing pajama bottoms?

I care about people. Its inherent in who I am. Be they my neighbor or some random person on the street I see having some kind of issue.

Then, and it's not an afront, do you think detachment is an ill practice?

Then, and it's not an afront, do you think detachment is an ill practice?

Not at all. I think that everyone is different. Being private is fine.

I wont condem detatchment unless it moves into "not giving a shit about other people" territory.

I tend to act the same way. But if I see an 8 year old going out constantly, all the time alone and I don't see his mom around, I may feel slightly concerned and call the police for them to check on him.

Depends on where you live.

Not at all. I think that everyone is different. Being private is fine.

I truly think that's what happened in this case. I bet that the only reason the police got involved was because Saco, the shop owner, gave a damn and asked the child why was he alone all the time.

I wont condem detatchment unless it moves into "not giving a shit about other people" territory.

I agree with you, detachment is healthy to the extent of helping keep privacy and sanity, but it's not so healthy if it makes one into an individual who doesn't give a shit about others.

I tend to act the same way. But if I see an 8 year old going out constantly, all the time alone and I don't see his mom around, I may feel slightly concerned and call the police for them to check on him.

I tend to not get involved in people's lives unless I suspect abuse, neglect or they're too damn loud and I can't watch my porn in peace.

I tend to act the same way. But if I see an 8 year old going out constantly, all the time alone and I don't see his mom around, I may feel slightly concerned and call the police for them to check on him.

Really?

My neighbors never see me as I work ridiculous hours and my son always goes outside alone to go play with friends or by himself when he is home on the weekends. I feel no need to constantly supervise an 8 year old while he is playing.

The amount of social detachment we sometimes have from our neighbors is outstanding. This child lived inside his home, with the body of his dead mother for a week or so and no one noticed.
I mostly don't understand why didn't the child do anything about it, like call the hospital or the police, or ask someone to do it.

How come? He's 8, it's age enough to understand what happened and that something has to be done. Furthermore, acted quite mature for his age. He tried to do CPR, acknowledged that his mother has 'gone to a better place' and isn't just asleep, even bought bread and milk rather than just junk food.

I find it the most strange why didn't he inform anyone about the incident. Also, 10 days would probably make living there somewhat uncomfortable. That is what I find bizarre.




Is detachment a healthy practice? Is it necessary? And, finally, how would you relate it in terms of this news article?
Well, most people don't really communicate with their neighbors on a daily basis. On occasional basis, but without picking nose into each other's lives.

I wouldn't call it detachment. Detachment is a psychological concept, what we have here is simply a low level of social networking. [I mean real social networking, not what passes for it with computers.]

If a kid was walking down the street in the winter alone without proper clothing on I would call the police. Something is wrong with that situation.

I know my neighbors and they know my kids, if my kids were outside in their pajamas in the winter they would call the police.

If a kid was walking down the street in the winter alone without proper clothing on I would call the police. Something is wrong with that situation.

Exactly. Someone must've seen the child walking without proper clothing, in the middle of MI winter, which is bitterly cold. Why did no one else call the police or something? If they had, the child wouldn't have had to spend 10 days with the lifeless body of his mother on a room.

The psychological scars of this child, I hope not, will run deep.

I commend the kid for knowing how to take care of himself, even to the point of going to buy food.

Now, when I was eight years old I'm pretty sure I would've called the police ASAP if my mom was dead...

Now, when I was eight years old I'm pretty sure I would've called the police ASAP if my mom was dead...
Indeed. At least I wouldn't have tried to use her credit card.

Indeed. At least I wouldn't have tried to use her credit card.

Why? He obviously had no other income.

My impression is that he felt he didn't have to do anything, as he tried to save her and failed, and perhaps he was comforted by the body.

Now, when I was eight years old I'm pretty sure I would've called the police ASAP if my mom was dead...

Unless you were emotionally traumatized. I think at 8 I wouldn't have been emotionally able to handle my parent dying and I probably would have went through some sort of denial. People do weird things when faced with death.

My impression is that he felt he didn't have to do anything, as he tried to save her and failed, and perhaps he was comforted by the body.

And in addition he was probably taught not to talk with strangers. Being homeschooled and obviously not having close relationships with the neighbours may have meant there were no non-strangers around. No social net to take him in.

When finally sinks in what happened the boy will probably crash :(

I think alot depends on the boys upbringing and if he and his mother had any other connections for instance my godson is 8 and I know that if his mother died he would freak out and probably go to the neighbors apartment or down the road to his grandmas, even if he didnt immediately say anything to anyone directly about it he would not just stay there and not tell anyone, hey I need help but then again he and his parents have always been very social and it is a friendly neighborhood. It seems like these guys kept to themselves alot also I wonder since it was a liquor store they were frequently at if life at home wasn't what you would call "normal" for the boy, maybe he didnt know how to act around adults, maybe he was afraid...there is alot we dont know. We also don't really know from this article how developmentally stable the boy was or wasn't and maybe if they were poor he was often seen walking around without a coat, not saying that this is right but just thinking. I mean our neighbor kids run around out here on the street all the time, late into the night and often dont wear coats but their parents are seen to be on the porches of the apartments frequently enough that I don't know whether I would worry about them or not if I saw them walking around alone... kids get dirty and not all kids wear coats even when they are asked to even in cold weather. I think like the shop keeper I would be concerned but I would wait awhile and see what happened before getting into it because you dont want to step on anyones toes or create drama for someone who obviously already has a struggle like she did being a single mom.

My impression is that he felt he didn't have to do anything, as he tried to save her and failed, and perhaps he was comforted by the body.
That's what's creepy here. A 10 day old body isn't exactly comforting.

sounds to me like he just emotionally shut down, sometimes people do react that way, especially children, we don't know how she died yet either it might have been really traumatic for him.

-snip-

tl;dr doubleplus

I truly think that's what happened in this case. I bet that the only reason the police got involved was because Saco, the shop owner, gave a damn and asked the child why was he alone all the time.



I suspect part of the reason he went so long with out being noticed is the timing of the event. let it have happened when school was in session.

I suspect part of the reason he went so long with out being noticed is the timing of the event. let it have happened when school was in session.

The Alma Mater mentioned something about being homeschooled.

The Alma Mater mentioned something about being homeschooled.

Yep. From the article:

The boy was home-schooled, has no siblings and his father died several years ago, authorities said. The child is in foster care while police try to locate his other relatives, Romulus police Lt. John Leacher said.

The Alma Mater mentioned something about being homeschooled.

wow yet more reason against home schooling. that poor bugger likely doesn't have any friends to talk to about this I reckon.

Sad story, as was said its not a matter of detachment its a matter of not giving a shit.

I'm detached from my neighbors, my good neighbors moved in and the ones that I have now are nightmare neighbors from hell. I hate them, however if they suddenly stopped being nightmare neighbors I would do something to ensure they were still, you know, breathing.

A thing puzzles me. Didn't the boy attend to school? Didn't the teachers do anything when he missed classes for a week without any notice, like, dunno, phone, or call the police, or the social services?

I suspect part of the reason he went so long with out being noticed is the timing of the event. let it have happened when school was in session.

The child was homeschooled.

The child was homeschooled.

Homeschooling, wtf.:rolleyes:

Homeschooling, wtf.:rolleyes:

Da vero. *nod*

wow yet more reason against home schooling.

Don't homeschool because if you die your body might not be discovered for ten days? That's sort of an odd objection.

Don't homeschool because if you die your body might not be discovered for ten days? That's sort of an odd objection.

Indeed. Many homeschooled children turn out ok anyway. What happened to this child was an exception. I'm no expert though. This is actually a subject Smunkee has a better grasp on than me.

It is like Greyfriars Bobby but without the cute dog

Don't homeschool because if you die your body might not be discovered for ten days? That's sort of an odd objection.
Well, it points to the more general objection: that your kid will grow up nearly friendless, or in total isolation.

I wont condem detatchment unless it moves into "not giving a shit about other people" territory.

I lived on a quiet, residential dead end street for 10 years and i probably couldnt pick out a single neighbor on the whole street in a police lineup. I could care less what they do. There are maybe 20 or 30 people in the world that are actually important to me and i really care if they are healthy and alive other then that its pretty much <shrug>. I mean if 200 people die in a plane crash you might get a well thats a shame out of me, but 20 seconds later ill never think about it again.

Well, it points to the more general objection: that your kid will grow up nearly friendless, or in total isolation.

Is there any evidence for this objection to homeschooling?

As for the OP, I think that most people with kids try to be more neighbourly, even if it is just to get to know the parents of the other kids on the street.

Is there any evidence for this objection to homeschooling?

That's why I would like to get Smunkee here for this one. Her kids are homeschooled.

Well, it points to the more general objection: that your kid will grow up nearly friendless, or in total isolation.

Hardly. In many areas where homeschooling is supported, there are homeschooling associations created with the intent to pool resources in able to get homeschooled students out on field trips that might not work well individually, or would be too expensive. Many families that homeschool make a concerted effort to incorporate their children into their general social lives, rather than confining said children to 'social time is school time'. Homeschooling in the 21st century is no longer a mother keeping her children at home to help around the farm...we haz the interwebs even!

What this story does highlight is the potential isolation of ANY family, be they recently immigrated, poor, or in any other way 'at the fringes'. Even if the boy were in school, and the school was calling home to report absences, there is no chance that social services would be notified until some time had passed.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, the kid had been torn away from home and everybody he knew (by circumstances beyond the mother's control, to be sure) and the mother was not part of any network in the new place to which they had moved: homeschooling was a singularly bad choice under the circumstances.

I was homeschooled. No lack of social interaction beyond the usual for rural childhood. It did, however, lead be to be inclined toward libertarianism, so some here would say that I was crippled through my education :p

I was able to prepare basic meals for myself when I was 8, and could have taken care of myself for some time. I would have gone to one of the neighbors, though, if a parent was dead. That would only have been a 1/4 mile walk at the first house and far less at the other (we moved when I was that age). I also had a two-parent household, though, so my circumstances and psychology differed from the child in the OP.

That's nothing. In Bristol a bloke lived for 10 years with a dead body on his sofa.

I was homeschooled for a year in junior high and my best friend was homeschooled all her life she was no where near friendless or isolated in fact, in many states it is required by law that any and all extra curricular activities provided by the public schools that children would be attending were they not homeschooled ( and that parent's still pay taxes for) allow homeschooled children to participate. Therefore I was able to still participate in the drama program and my friend was on the soccer team, the drama team, the cheerleading squad and joined an art class. In addition to this her parents took her to a local youth group and she participated in all those activities. It is incorrect in my opinion to state that if one is home schooled one will necessarily be isolated and have no friends. I am sure that this does sometimes happen and that there are those oober fundy parents who over shelter their kids or whatever but I think more than anything it comes down to the parents doing the homeschooling. It is their responsibility to make sure that their children's education also incorporates socialization and physical activity.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, the kid had been torn away from home and everybody he knew (by circumstances beyond the mother's control, to be sure) and the mother was not part of any network in the new place to which they had moved: homeschooling was a singularly bad choice under the circumstances.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, school was not in session anyway, so I don't see how it would have changed anything.

IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, school was not in session anyway, so I don't see how it would have changed anything.

He would have known some people from the neighborhood. As it is, apparently he doesn't know a soul.

He would have known some people from the neighborhood. As it is, apparently he doesn't know a soul.

If you'll read back a page or so you'll see that most of the adults on this thread don't know their own neighbors.

Adults do know other people. This kid doesn't know ANYBODY.

That's nothing. In Bristol a bloke lived for 10 years with a dead body on his sofa.
Not exactly a good thing to boast about, though :p

Adults do know other people. This kid doesn't know ANYBODY.

That's sad for this kid. It's not typical though.

That's sad for this kid. It's not typical though.
I'm not saying it is. Just that, in this case, with the kid already uprooted, keeping him out of school also was a strange and poor decision on the mother's part.
The authorities are being tight-lipped: no word on how the mother died (she was only 41) except "no foul play suspected". It all sounds very odd, but I doubt we will learn much more. They did, at least, locate some cousins (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28774582/) in Louisiana to take in the boy.

"sometimes through Arctic cold and other times wearing pajama bottoms"
When it wasn't Arctic cold, he didn't bother wearing pajama bottoms?
No, it quite clearly means that when it was Arctic Cold, he went naked. This kid is just that hardcore. I'm pretty sure that, had he been left alone for another week or so, he would have skinned his mother to make a suit and several roasts.
Don't homeschool because if you die your body might not be discovered for ten days? That's sort of an odd objection.
It is so true, though.
That's nothing. In Bristol a bloke lived for 10 years with a dead body on his sofa.
That, folks, is some motherfucking detachment.