NationStates Jolt Archive

It would be better if the entire world would speak one single language.

Think about the advantages:

* No translations needed (which are costing money, time and resources) anymore.
* Writers, documentary makers, movie directors, newspapers etc., will have a bigger forum
* It would improve education around the world. Some (small) countries use a language which is used by 'few'. They will have an enhanced entrance to all kind of knowledge and their specific knowledge will be easier accessible to the world.
* You can pick-up chicks easier around the globe.
* Learning several languages is time consuming. Time is limited, we could use it for learning stuff which really matters.
* Currently English is dominating all kind of cultures and in the same time 'small' languages are discriminated.
* If we have one single language, we will be able to communicate better with each other. It could solve or minimize all kind of nasty problems like war or the integration of foreigners, etc...



Don't start moaning about Esperanto, which is European oriented and not fit for the entire world (by instance, it's using 'r' and 'l' which is hard to use for Chinese and Japanese people).

So what do you think?

If it isn't English I am fucked

Its called English.

EDIT: Damn, beaten to it!

Sure, but what language? English or Mandarin seem like the two most logical choices.

English is the only fitting one.

Preferably US English.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD! ;)
that is a very good idea, and there almost is one anyway, English. It's used by airtraffic control all over the world i think.

Then again it might ruin national identity in some countries and no doubt the Ruskies might not like the language invasion.
So in principle it's right, but in practice i think you'd need alot of people to back you up on that one.

No. English isn't a good choice.

I think we should analyze several main languages and look for phonetic similarities.
Based on that, we could create a new language.

Learning a language can be fixed in one year.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD! ;)
that is a very good idea, and there almost is one anyway, English. It's used by airtraffic control all over the world i think.

Then again it might ruin national identity in some countries and no doubt the Ruskies might not like the language invasion.
So in principle it's right, but in practice i think you'd need alot of people to back you up on that one.

Not a real issue, the EU and USA can unite to form one Ultra Power (UEAS) and use their hundred dozen million soldiers to roll over those commie bastards.

Everyone should learn sign language.

Not a real issue, the EU and USA can unite to form one Ultra Power (UEAS) and use their hundred dozen million soldiers to roll over those commie bastards.
damn straight
Everyone should learn sign language.

I would agree with you, however i think there are as many different variations of sign language as spoken language.
I would point to even the difference between Australian sign language and English, when i was presenting a talk about marsupials in biology class many years ago, i decided for a joke to put on an Australian accent, it would have worked but because the person who helped another girl in our class with sign langauge had to ask me to stop because she couldn't sign the different speech.

I think that if everyone understood each other better, we'd probably kill each other a lot more often.

I would agree with you, however i think there are as many different variations of sign language as spoken language.

Alright, everyone should learn English sign language then.

Eh, English is the de facto global language, already. I do think there is something to studying multiple languages, though, that goes a long in teaching certain study habits and skills.

Alright, everyone should learn English sign language then.

fair enough, it would be useful for me.
I wonder what's more useful, sign language or lip reading?

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

I think that if everyone understood each other better, we'd probably kill each other a lot more often.

^^ This.

Also, think about the amount of existing languages that we would lose in the process.... I don't fancy the thought.
I do like the idea of everybody being able to communicate in a common language, but that language ought not to be everybody's first language.

It would be better if the entire world would speak one single language.

Think about the advantages:

* No translations needed anymore.
* Writers, documentary makers, movie directors, newspapers etc., will have a bigger forum
* It would improve education around the world.
* You can pick-up chicks easier around the globe.

Don't start moaning about Esperanto, which is European oriented and not fit for the entire world (by instance, it's using 'r' and 'l' which is hard to use for Chinese and Japanese people).

So what do you think?

Bad idea. The diveristy of the many languages is what makes our world so interesting.

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

Its not about native speakers though... its about total speakers. You should also note that A. There are about 12 Chinese Languages, and B. The USA has no official language but nearly the entire population speaks English.. that's about 350 million people that are not on that list.

I think most people already speak "money".

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

yes, but look at how many speak english at least semi fluently. Chinese may be the #1 language spoken natively, but English is known by more people than any other language.

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

I suspect if we put a million monkeys on a million typewriters, they'd come up with a quicker solution than NSG, which is merely a couple hundred monkeys, it's basic math.

I think most people already speak "money".

True, but most have massive problems with the grammar.

Bad idea. The diveristy of the many languages is what makes our world so interesting.


Maybe we should use diverse cars in each country just for the sake of interest.

IMHO, I think the disadvantages of a one-language-for-all do not weight out the clear advantages.

It would be an enormous jump for humankind.

True, but most have massive problems with the grammar.

Yeah seriously! Whats a quid?

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

English, of course, isn't the most widely spoken native language, but it is definitely the most widely spoken language as secondary or native. Hell, in China alone there are nearly as many English speakers as there are US citizens.

Yeah seriously! Whats a quid?

Beginner's stuff... have you ever tried to understand APR?

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

Which is why we don't use a list of native speakers, but a list of total speakers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_languages_by_total_number_of_speakers

Mode Average Estimation:
Chinese (all dialects) - 1.036 billion
English - 618 million
Hindi - 487 million
Spanish - 376 million

Now the question becomes whether to count all Chinese dialects as a single language or not.

As for constructing a new language, that's been tried before. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperanto) Whether or not it's Eurocentric is irrelevant. It did not catch on.

Beginner's stuff... have you ever tried to understand APR?

You always here these English blokes saying I dropped a few quid on this or that...

Now the question becomes whether to count all Chinese dialects as a single language or not.

That could present a problem if the Chinese have a strong sense of nationality and they consider each of their dialects as important and not part of a single form of the Chinese language, which they're not since Mandarin couldn't be any more different from Cantonese.

Several problems. One:The language we speak also shapes the way we think. Remember Newstalk from 1984? Having only one language would hinder the development of ideas and stifle creativity. Two: Languages evolve. Regional slang would cause the meta-language to degenerate into several languages based on locality and culture anyway, and then you'd be back to square one.

You always here these English blokes saying I dropped a few quid on this or that...

I believe it's short for squid. The English conduct all their monetary transactions in a complex seafood barter system.

* It would improve education around the world.
How? By studying less? Faaaaiillll...

Don't start moaning about Esperanto, which is European oriented and not fit for the entire world (by instance, it's using 'r' and 'l' which is hard to use for Chinese and Japanese people).
I know many Chinese here in Milan who learned to pronounce "r" and "l" correctly.



Anyway, more language = more cultural diversity = more ideas. One language = BORING.

How? By studying less? Faaaaiillll...


I know many Chinese here in Milan who learned to pronounce "r" and "l" correctly.



Anyway, more language = more cultural diversity = more ideas. One language = BORING.

Ragazza, come sempre, sono d'accordo con lei al 100%.:D

I believe it's short for squid. The English conduct all their monetary transactions in a complex seafood barter system.

That's why switching to metric currency really screwed with our heads.

"I'll have a ha'penny of clams please in exchange for this doubloon of shrimp"

"Throw in a farthing of eel?"

"Fair enough"

Wasn't complex at all.

I believe it's short for squid. The English conduct all their monetary transactions in a complex seafood barter system.

Oh I get it, so a pound is 1 pound of fish. A (s)quid is probably worth 10 or 20 pounds?

Even if we did all move to one language, it would start to diverge again into new ones immediately anyway.

Ragazza, come sempre, sono d'accordo con lei al 100%.:D

Peccato che io sia un ragazzo. Grazie, comunque!

That's why switching to metric currency really screwed with our heads.

"I'll have a ha'penny of clams please in exchange for this doubloon of shrimp"

"Throw in a farthing of eel?"

"Fair enough"

Wasn't complex at all.

my car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I like it!

Maybe we could all convert to Maxese, the elaborate language of nonsense spoken by people in the Sims, as well as the races of Spore.

"Trans fablamma flobnort, guh ninji horbsikwab."

my car gets 40 rods to the hogshead and that's the way I like it!

Goddamn Americans, cousins separated by a common tongue.

Peccato che io sia un ragazzo. Grazie, comunque!

Voi siete? Oh mio, mi scuso per l'errore di sesso.:eek2:

Mode Average Estimation:
Chinese (all dialects) - 1.036 billion
English - 618 million
Hindi - 487 million
Spanish - 376 million


What about the different dialects of english? I support either RP or piratic, arr! p)

*resurrects Latin* Zombie language FTW!

What about the different dialects of english? I support either RP or piratic, arr! p)

Same happens with Spanish and Italian.

*resurrects Latin* Zombie language FTW!

No no no no no

You don't know what you're doing.

Too...many...conjugations...

(Megaloria has entered university flashback mode)

What about the different dialects of english? I support either RP or piratic, arr! p)

Well shiver me timbers... thar she be off to the larboard side.

No no no no no

You don't know what you're doing.

Too...many...conjugations...

(Megaloria has entered university flashback mode)

You English speakers are so lazy.

No no no no no

You don't know what you're doing.

Too...many...conjugations...

(Megaloria has entered university flashback mode)

Would you prefer Ancient Greek?

*resurrects Latin* Zombie language FTW!

You would make my grandfather the happiest person alive... he seriously thought the EU was going to adapt it as official language, seeing as they couldn't reach an agreement between English and French.

But then, he also believed that the US nearly adopted Ancient Greek as its official language at one point... he's quite mad, you know?

Voi siete? Oh mio, mi scuso per l'errore di sesso.:eek2:

ehm...

The courtesy form "lei" (better capitalized: "Lei") was perfect, it is used both for men and women. (example: "Signor Berlusconi, Lei è un buffone!").
The courtesy form "voi" is currently discarded, because fascism enforced the use of "voi" instead of "Lei", as "Lei" was deemed too "aristocratic and decadent".
In the first sentence, the nominal predicate should be completed, and a "davvero" : "Davvero voi siete un ragazzo?" or with a pronoun in the nominal predicate "Davvero lo siete?". With the "Lei": "Davvero Lei è un ragazzo?" "Davvero Lei lo è?"
And the "Oh mio" should be completed: "Oh mio Dio, mi scuso..."

Kudos, keep up the good job, your italian is almost perfect!

Zolang het maar Nederlands is vind ik het best, en laat ik er dan ook maar meteen mee beginnen.

You would make my grandfather the happiest person alive... he seriously thought the EU was going to adapt it as official language, seeing as they couldn't reach an agreement between English and French.

But then, he also believed that the US nearly adopted Ancient Greek as its official language at one point... he's quite mad, you know?

Quis latine loquitur?

Bad idea thats already been tried several times. (Esparanto is only one example of an IAL.)

No. English isn't a good choice.

I think we should analyze several main languages and look for phonetic similarities.
Based on that, we could create a new language.

Learning a language can be fixed in one year.

The problem goes beyond phonology. Grammar needs to be addressed as well, and it's not nearly as easy to establish a common ground there. To start with do we go with inflecting, agglutinating, or isolating? Subject, object, and verb ordering is another problem.

Putting together an IAL that's widely acceptable is very difficult, as can be seen by how many there are... (Esparanto, Ido, and Interlingua are the top three - how common are those?)

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Those figures are problematic for several reasons. First, that's not the number of speakers but of primary language speakers. Second, the numbers are an estimate and not entierly accurate. Thirdly, the geographgic distribution of languages are important.

What are the world's most widely spoken languages?

This question is a very interesting one that has a rather complicated answer. Estimates of how many people speak a language are quite general and can vary considerably. For example, English estimates vary from 275 to 450 million, Spanish from 150 to over 300 million, Hindi from 150 to 350 million, and Russian from 150 to 180 million.

To further complicate matters, the definition of “speaker” can be vague. Some surveys of languages give information on native speakers only. Others count both native speakers and secondary speakers (those who use the language regularly or primarily even though it is not their native language).

Lastly, it is important to consider not only the population (number) of language speakers, but also the geographic distribution of these languages. Some languages have relatively large populations of native speakers but are used almost exclusively in a few countries. On the other hand, other languages have relatively small populations of native speakers but are used in many different countries as an official or national language.

After weighing six factors (number of primary speakers, number of secondary speakers, number and population of countries where used, number of major fields using the language internationally, economic power of countries using the languages, and socio-literary prestige), Weber compiled the following list of the world's ten most influential languages:
(number of points given in parentheses)

1. English (37)
2. French (23)
3. Spanish (20)
4. Russian (16)
5. Arabic (14)
6. Chinese (13)
7. German (12)
8. Japanese (10)
9. Portuguese (10)
10. Hindi/Urdu (9)


http://www2.ignatius.edu/faculty/turner/worldlang.htm

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

The term for what you want is "international auxiliary language". :)


Bad idea. The diveristy of the many languages is what makes our world so interesting.

This is indeed one of the big reasons why it's a bad idea.

Its not about native speakers though... its about total speakers. You should also note that A. There are about 12 Chinese Languages, and B. The USA has no official language but nearly the entire population speaks English.. that's about 350 million people that are not on that list.

The estimates of the total number of English speakers vary from 400 million to 1,500 million.

Quis latine loquitur?

He doesn't really, that's the joke about this all. Didn't stop him from getting into shouting arguments about it, and on one occasion tip over the dinner table. Shame about that roast chicken, really.

...
* You can pick-up chicks easier around the globe.
...


But they won't have those cute foreign accents :(

IMHO - People who only speak one language are borderline retarded. Forcing yourself to learn another language forces you to learn about another culture and another way of thinking.

ehm...

The courtesy form "lei" (better capitalized: "Lei") was perfect, it is used both for men and women. (example: "Signor Berlusconi, Lei è un buffone!").
The courtesy form "voi" is currently discarded, because fascism enforced the use of "voi" instead of "Lei", as "Lei" was deemed too "aristocratic and decadent".
In the first sentence, the nominal predicate should be completed, and a "davvero" : "Davvero voi siete un ragazzo?" or with a pronoun in the nominal predicate "Davvero lo siete?". With the "Lei": "Davvero Lei è un ragazzo?" "Davvero Lei lo è?"
And the "Oh mio" should be completed: "Oh mio Dio, mi scuso..."

Kudos, keep up the good job, your italian is almost perfect!

I'll keep tackling it. Thanks for the pointers.

You English speakers are so lazy.

Indeed.

:::Insert the "trilingual, bilingual, American" joke here:::

Let me add that multilingualism has been shown to have serious cognetive benifits.

*resurrects Latin* Zombie language FTW!

BTW latin isn't quite dead. Romansh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romansh_language) is a dialect of Latin.

Let us all use QUENYA!

BTW latin isn't quite dead. Romansh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romansh_language) is a dialect of Latin.

Romansh (better: rumantsch), now replaced by the lingua gritschuna for official use, is NOT a dialect of Latin. It is a neolatin (romance) language, just like french, italian, milanese, català, romanian, venetian, castellano, portuguese, occitan...

Everyone should learn Brainish (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QtQGsBAabyI) (skip to about 2:30 in for the relevant section)

You always here these English blokes saying I dropped a few quid on this or that...
means they dropped a few pounds (currency) on this or that, losing their money basically.

Indeed.

:::Insert the "trilingual, bilingual, American" joke here:::

Let me add that multilingualism has been shown to have serious cognetive benifits.

uhuh sure it does. the same way playing scrabble helps with solving murder mysteries yeah? no don't be daft.

Indeed.

:::Insert the "trilingual, bilingual, American" joke here:::

Let me add that multilingualism has been shown to have serious cognetive benifits.

It does. The more languages one knows, the easiest it is to acquire the knowledge of a new langauge. For me it's so easy to understand French, Italian and Portuguese now that I have strated to follow, not to full capacity, Romanian (which is a Romance language). And learning English has helped me get a better understanding of Germanic languages (although I do not speak German or any other Germanic based language). This has also given me excellent tools to learn Japanese.

OK, no Latin. How about Klingon? It's a synthetic language of sorts [/bad idea] :D

OK, no Latin. How about Klingon? It's a synthetic language of sorts [/bad idea] :D

Or Loxian, a language invented by Enya's producer?

It does. The more languages one knows, the easiest it is to acquire the knowledge of a new langauge. For me it's so easy to understand French, Italian and Portuguese now that I have strated to follow, not to full capacity, Romanian (which is a Romance language). And learning English has helped me get a better understanding of Germanic languages (although I do not speak German or any other Germanic based language). This has also given me excellent tools to learn Japanese.

I only speak English currently. I found it difficult in high school to learn other languages; I think partially because the other languages are more literal with less stupid little sneaky rules; it my sound weird, but when you are used to something complex simpler things can pose a challenge.

Lol this is a great thread

IMHO - People who only speak one language are borderline retarded. Forcing yourself to learn another language forces you to learn about another culture and another way of thinking.

I find that offensive. My parents and grandparents spoke only English because that's all they needed to speak, and they were not 'retarded'

I myself speak a bit of French and German but have never really had to use them. Most of the places I have visited cater for the English speaking tourist (and I include Americans, Aussies, New Zealanders and Canadians)

Maybe you're 'borderline retarded' for living in a country where you need to speak 2 languages;)

I only speak English currently. I found it difficult in high school to learn other languages; I think partially because the other languages are more literal with less stupid little sneaky rules; it my sound weird, but when you are used to something complex simpler things can pose a challenge.

As with everything, some people have a knack for learning different languages and some people have difficulties with it.

I offer a compromise...how about the universal language being English, in a hilariously bad and inexplicably put-on Dutch accent, as pioneered by Steve McClaren, former England football manager? (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZnoP4sUV90&feature=related)

I find that offensive. My parents and grandparents spoke only English because that's all they needed to speak, and they were not 'retarded'

I myself speak a bit of French and German but have never really had to use them. Most of the places I have visited cater for the English speaking tourist (and I include Americans, Aussies, New Zealanders and Canadians)

Maybe you're 'borderline retarded' for living in a country where you need to speak 2 languages;)

You do know you're preaching righteousness and are doing the same thing you're raising a flag to, right?

This last part of your post was uncalled and offensive too.

You English speakers are so lazy.

And you non-English get all antsy when you see letters like "ough" piled up together. I'll take ridiculous spelling over obsessive temporal conjugation anyday. French is bad enough for that, and I'm already fluent.

I only speak English currently. I found it difficult in high school to learn other languages; I think partially because the other languages are more literal with less stupid little sneaky rules; it my sound weird, but when you are used to something complex simpler things can pose a challenge.

That might well have to do with the way languages are taught at school.
Some people can learn vocab by heart, and learn grammar like mathematical formula. Those will learn languages easily at school.

Others learn languages more intuitively, by hearing an expression in a situation and being able to remember the entire expression without being aware of the direct translation of the words, or the grammatical rules underlying it. Those will have problems with languages at school.

I know because I belong to the second category. I started actually UNDERSTANDING English when I went to England aged 14. After that, I read voraciously anything English I could get my hands on. That's how I learned.

There are no languages that are simpler or more complex than others.

I offer a compromise...how about the universal language being English, in a hilariously bad and inexplicably put-on Dutch accent, as pioneered by Steve McClaren, former England football manager? (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZnoP4sUV90&feature=related)

LOL! That is a fab Idea, also like the Dutch policemen sketch in The Fast Show.

And you non-English get all antsy when you see letters like "ough" piled up together. I'll take ridiculous spelling over obsessive temporal conjugation anyday. French is bad enough for that, and I'm already fluent.

And I'll take obssessive temporal conjugation anyday. That very obssessiveness is what makes my own language rich. I don't find that a problem at all because that way one learns to speak a different language CORRECTLY. I also prize that.

I offer a compromise...how about the universal language being English, in a hilariously bad and inexplicably put-on Dutch accent, as pioneered by Steve McClaren, former England football manager? (http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZnoP4sUV90&feature=related)

I'll go for that.

You do know you're preaching righteousness and are doing the same thing you're raising a flag to, right?

This last part of your post was uncalled and offensive too.

I added the little smiley to so people wouldn't think I was being serious.:$

I'll go for that.

I'll sign to that, as long as we Canadians can keep our "eh".

No. English isn't a good choice.
What's wrong with it?

English is already de-facto world language. Unless you want to sow the fields, or, worse, mop the floors all your life, you have to know it.


I think we should analyze several main languages and look for phonetic similarities.
Based on that, we could create a new language.
Learning a language can be fixed in one year.
Tried, failed.

And even if people can learn to somewhat understand each other in a year, it will take a century for this Newspeak to become an actual language with its phrases, shortcuts, idioms, metaphors, structures, slang. Until then, it will be no more of a human language than Python with symbols replaced by words.

That might well have to do with the way languages are taught at school.
Some people can learn vocab by heart, and learn grammar like mathematical formula. Those will learn languages easily at school.

Others learn languages more intuitively, by hearing an expression in a situation and being able to remember the entire expression without being aware of the direct translation of the words, or the grammatical rules underlying it. Those will have problems with languages at school.

I know because I belong to the second category. I started actually UNDERSTANDING English when I went to England aged 14. After that, I read voraciously anything English I could get my hands on. That's how I learned.

There are no languages that are simpler or more complex than others.

Well, my spanish and french teachers were boring; and they were old and ugly so thy couldn't even get my attention. Boring, old, ugly, and boring, does not hold my attention for long, not when I can count the bumps on each individual ceiling tile.

Well, my spanish and french teachers were boring; and they were old and ugly so thy couldn't even get my attention with that combination.

It's all about your own disposition to learn, B-tan. My English tutors weren't precisely good-looking material.:tongue:

It's all about your own disposition to learn, B-tan. My English tutors weren't precisely good-looking material.:tongue:

Exactly.
And I once had a drop-dead-gorgeous Latin teacher.. I had a massive crush, but that didn't make me learn Latin any better, because that still didn't make any sense.

It's all about your own disposition to learn, B-tan. My English tutors weren't precisely good-looking material.:tongue:

It was the BORING that caused the most problems. Being ugly just meant they couldn't keep my attention anyway. I was 15 for chrissakes.

It was the BORING that caused the most problems. Being ugly just meant they couldn't keep my attention anyway. I was 15 for chrissakes.

Have you thought about picking those languages up now that you're a grown-up?

uhuh sure it does. the same way playing scrabble helps with solving murder mysteries yeah? no don't be daft.

Some benifits of multilingualism:

The advantages that multilinguals exhibit over monolinguals are not restricted to linguistic knowledge only, but extend outside the area of language (Cook 1999, 2002b), and the substantial long-lived cognitive, social, personal, academic, and professional benefits of enrichment bilingual contexts have been well documented (Thomas & Collier 1998). Children and older persons learning foreign languages have been demonstrated to:

1. have a keener awareness (Galambos & Goldin-Meadow 1990; Ewert 2006, forthc.) and sharper perception of language (enhanced metalingual abilities, e.g. detection of anomalous sentences; Bialystok 2001). Foreign language learning “enhances children’s understanding of how language itself works and their ability to manipulate language in the service of thinking and problem solving” (Cummins 1981);

2. be better at judging how many words there are in a sentence (whatever the practical utility of this skill);

3. be more capable of separating meaning from form (Ben Zeev 1977; Bialystok 1986);

4. learn more rapidly in their L1, e.g. to read (Yelland et al. 1993), with a high positive correlation between FL study and improved reading scores (for children of both average and below average intelligence, Garfinkel & Tabor 1991), as well as improved performance in other basic L1 skills, regardless of race, gender, or academic level (Dumas 1999);

5. be more efficient communicators in the L1;

6. be consistently better able to deal with distractions, which may help offset age-related declines in mental dexterity (Bialystok et al. 2004); their greater control needed to perform well on the experimental Simon task being accounted for either by the ability to hold two languages in the mind concurrently without allowing words and grammar slip from one into the other, or by superior working memories for information storage and processing;

7. develop a markedly better language proficiency in, sensitivity to, and understanding of their mother tongue (e.g. Johnson et al. 1963). For instance, graduating high school seniors with two or more years of FL study significantly outperformed non-FL students on achievement tests in their L1 (Bastian 1980; cf. also e.g. Van de Craen et al.’s (2006) account of children in multilingual schools in Walloon vs. their monolingual peers, and Nespor (1971) for an increase in expressive L1 oral productivity);

8. develop a greater vocabulary size over age (cf. Kosmidis 2006), including their L1 (Johnson et al. 1963), consistently scoring higher in measures of L1 English vocabulary, particularly when the language studied has Latinate roots (Masciantonio 1977), contrary to the fear that bilingual children may be ‘late talkers’;

9. have a better ear for listening and sharper memories (Ratte 1968; Lapkin et al. 1990);

10. be better language learners in institutionalized learning contexts because of more developed language-learning capacities owing to the more complex linguistic knowledge and higher language awareness (Wolff 2006); thus, FL ‘best practice’ reinforces the L1 English language content of the general classroom (Curtain & Dahlberg 2004);

11. have increased ability to apply more reading strategies effectively due to their greater experience in language learning and reading in two—or more—different languages (Nayak et al. 1990), with TL proficiency linearly correlated with reading strategy use (Hong & Leavell 2006), also in their native language (Garfinkel & Tabor 1991; Horstmann 1980; Johnson et al. 1963);

12. develop not only better verbal, but also spatial abilities (Diaz 1983);

13. parcel up and categorize meanings in different ways, e.g. colors (1) (Athanasopoulos 2001; Japanese has different verbs for putting on garments, hat, and other pieces of attire and two lexemes denoting ‘water’ depending on whether the speaker is female or male (although the young generation attempt to shun this gender-exclusive differentiation), Chinese has a separate word for going to the cinema, theatre, or doctor, while Swahili an assortment of greetings depending on the gender, age, and status of the person encountered);

14. display generally greater cognitive flexibility, better problem solving and higher-order thinking skills (Hakuta 1986); they have better ‘measures of conceptual development’, ‘creativity’ and ‘analogical reasoning’ (Diaz 1985), divergent thinking and figural creativity (Landry 1973b; cf. also e.g. 1968, 1972, 1973a, 1974). “Bilinguals or multilinguals are more used to switching thought patterns and have more flexible minds” (UNESCO 1995:179). FL learners consistently outperform their peers in core subject areas on standardized tests (Masciantonio 1977; Rafferty 1986; Andrade et al. 1989; Armstrong & Rogers 1997; Saunders 1998). For instance, multilingual children in Brussels secondary schools outperform their monoglot schoolmates in problem-solving and fraction exercises (Van de Craen et al. 2006; cf. also Rafferty (1986) for higher math scores of language students and Armstrong & Rogers (1997) (2) for similar results in math and language arts; Campbell’s (1962) longitudinal study contrasting performance in all school subjects of FLES (FL in elementary school, 20 minutes per day) and non-FLES students, all selected to have IQ of 120 or above, suggesting that FLES has a positive effect; consistent improved performance on both verbal and nonverbal intelligence tests in Peal & Lambert (1962), Bruck et al. (1974), Hakuta (1986) and Weatherford (1986), on Performance IQ, Picture Arrangement Object Assembly in Samuels & Griffore (1979), and on Iowa Test of Basic Skills in Lipton et al. (1985)).

A monolingual has in a sense a single other to model: all the people whom he or she encounters use the same world-view and the same language. A person who speaks multiple languages has at least dual others – a stereoscopic vision of the world from two or more perspectives. As we know from many studies of young children, this indeed has an effect on their cognitive development, enabling them to be more flexible in their thinking, learn reading more easily. The point is not so much that 2+2=4 as 2+2=5; it is not just the addition of a different world perspective to the person’s scope as the realisation that many perspectives are possible. Monolinguals therefore are not only restricted to a single world-view, but they also have more idea that other world-views are possible. Indeed this has always been seen as one of the main educational advantages of language teaching. (Cook 2001a)

15. early FL study results in substantial and long-lived benefits to the developing brain: “[t]he learning experiences of a child determine which [neural] connections are developed and which no longer function” (Dr. Michael Phelps, Chairman of the Department of Molecular and Medical Pharmacology, UCLA School of Medicine, quoted in NNELL 1996);

16. expand their personal horizons and—being simultaneously insiders and outsiders—see their own culture from a new perspective not available to monoglots, enabling the comparison, contrast, and understanding of cultural concepts;

17. be better problem-solvers gaining multiple perspectives on the issue (Kennedy 1994);

18. have improved critical thinking abilities;

19. possess extra skills in language use, e.g. engage in transfer, borrowing, insertional, alternational, inter- and intra-sentential code switching (3) (Grosjean 1989), mixing, and translation—patterns that are usual and natural rather than exceptional (as is in the case of monoglots), and analyzed as psycholinguistically motivated hybrid utterances serving different interactional, linguistic, pragmatic, cognitive and strategic functions (Majer 2006);

20. which may prove invaluable as, in some cases, the insertion of a foreign term may mean lower risk than e.g. omitting that term altogether for lack of a relevant translational equivalent in the person’s lexicon (Pym 2006);

21. reverse underachievement and close the achievement gap if they had been struggling in other subjects, as such learners make the greatest proportional gains, since “extended foreign language study gives students of average intelligence a kind of enrichment they may not be getting from other studies or experiences” (Garfinkel & Tabor 1991). For instance, a significant correlation was demonstrated between improved reading scores of language learners of average intelligence (the improvement for children of above average intelligence was statistically insignificant); FLL helps alter the trajectory for these students (op. cit.; see also Andrade et al. (1989) for indications that achievement for children participating in the FL magnet program far exceeds national norms in reading and math);

22. thus, when pupils not accustomed to achievement in school excel in this area, it results in their developing a significantly higher self-concept and self-esteem (Masciantonio 1977; Andrade et al. 1989; Saunders 1998);

23. better understand and appreciate people of other countries, thereby lessening racism, xenophobia, and intolerance (Carpenter & Torney 1974), as the learning of a new language usually brings with it a revelation of a new culture. FL study offers unique insight into other cultures and promotes intercultural competence – especially as “[t]he positive impact of cultural information is significantly enhanced when that information is experienced through foreign language” (Curtain & Dahlberg 2004), which is becoming increasingly sought after in the age of global interdependence and increasingly multicultural and multi-ethnic societies. Harvard Business Review (quoted by Schwarzer 2006) reveals that banks not only tolerate, but also celebrate and capitalize on diversity, which helps them make much more money annually; (4)

24. learn further languages more quickly and efficiently than their hitherto monolingual peers (Cummins 1981);

25. to say nothing of the social and employment advantages of being bilingual – offering the student the ability to communicate with people s/he would otherwise not have the chance to interact with, and increasing job opportunities in many careers.

Thus, just like Latin once used to be taught as an academic exercise, mental gymnastics with the aim of cognitive training, it has been demonstrated that people who know more than one language usually think more flexibly than monolinguals. Also many celebrated bilingual writers—such as John Milton, Vladimir Nabokov, Samuel Barclay Beckett, or Iosif Brodsky—attest that knowing a second language enhances the use of the first.

http://www.biculturalfamily.org/benefitsofmultilingualism.html


What's wrong with it?

English is already de-facto world language. Unless you want to sow the fields, or, worse, mop the floors all your life, you have to know it.

Indeed it is.

In all seriousness (I am capable of seriousness, honest!) I never found languages very interesting at school. I found that all the other subjects except PE were just more useful for me (though in the case of PE I have other reasons for hating that which might bias me). For everything else I felt I was really expanding the total sum of my knowledge of the world - whether it be of the past, how things work, or what other people's religious beliefs are etc.

Yet in languages I could never shake the feeling I was just learning to express the same thoughts and ideas that I could articulate reasonably in English, but in a less well-developed and less understandable way (as in school you're hardly going to reach the level of the native speaker). And to me, that always seemed slightly...pointless in comparison to everything else I was learning. Being a teacher's pet, of course, I studied equally hard for my GCSE Spanish as in every other subject. Nevertheless, with apologies to language fans, and aware I sound like your stereotypical island mentality Brit, I'm afraid I don't (and probably never will) understand the appeal of learning languages.

In all honesty, with all the translation software and professional transltors around, I doubt its worth creating a new universal language. Costs probably outweigh the benefits. But I've highlighted my biases against learning other languages, so take that with a pinch of salt should you wish.

Have you thought about picking those languages up now that you're a grown-up?

You mean big kid? Grown ups are boring...

I have but I can't afford to right now.

It would be better if the entire world would speak one single language.

Think about the advantages:

* No translations needed anymore.So you not only want everyone to speak a common language, but also to abolish all the existing ones?
How boring.

* Writers, documentary makers, movie directors, newspapers etc., will have a bigger forumThere may be a bigger forum, but there will be room for less artists, I think. The top media-producers just take up more space, leaving even less for the others.

* It would improve education around the world.How?

* You can pick-up chicks easier around the globe.Hmm.. I thought chicks liked guys that could speak multiple languages. Not to mention that if you can make the effort to speak their language, when it isn't your own, you can score bonus points.

So what do you think?English works fine, imo.

You mean big kid? Grown ups are boring...

I have but I can't afford to right now.

Ok, big kid it is. :D

Try online. I know there are some online courses in different languages that are cost-free.

GET OUT OF MY HEAD! ;)
that is a very good idea, and there almost is one anyway, English. It's used by airtraffic control all over the world i think.

Then again it might ruin national identity in some countries and no doubt the Ruskies might not like the language invasion.
So in principle it's right, but in practice i think you'd need alot of people to back you up on that one.
The idea of "national" (instead of individual) identity sounds questionable to begin with already? Common ancestry? We have common ancestry with microbes. Common culture? Shouldn't "culture" be an individual thing people choose for themselves to begin with? And the more common reference as "nation" would be referring to countries, aka regions of land bounded by arguably arbitrary (aside from the meaning we've created) lines; but why should people's identities revolve around the country they happen to live in?

Ok, big kid it is. :D

Try online. I know there are some online courses in different languages that are cost-free.

Do you teach any of them :)

Maybe you're 'borderline retarded' for living in a country where you need to speak 2 languages;)

What about countries that are bilingual, like Finland?

Do you teach any of them :)

You want me to teach you Spanish? I am not qualified to teach any other language though.

Several problems. One:The language we speak also shapes the way we think. Remember Newstalk from 1984? Having only one language would hinder the development of ideas and stifle creativity. Two: Languages evolve. Regional slang would cause the meta-language to degenerate into several languages based on locality and culture anyway, and then you'd be back to square one.

I believe the name is newspeak.

Nevertheless, with apologies to language fans, and aware I sound like your stereotypical island mentality Brit, I'm afraid I don't (and probably never will) understand the appeal of learning languages.I started learning English by watching cartoons on TV. It was the only channel with decent cartoons on it, so I suppose that was the appeal to learning it for me at that time. Of course my brain sorted that all out automatically, no effort required :p
Somewhere I have to agree to you though; I like being able to speak multiple languages (even aside from the list of mental benefits it apparently give), but learning a language doesn't much appeal to me. If only there was a way to skip from A to B; or going back to my youth and solve it by watching more cartoons.

You want me to teach you Spanish? I am not qualified to teach any other language though.

I was partially kidding but, if we could ever find a convenient time to do it I would happily take you up on the offer.

I was partially kidding but, if we could ever find a convenient time to do it I would happily take you up on the offer.

It's up to you. I don't mind at all. But yes, we would need to find a schedule that fits us both to do it.

I hate to be "that guy with the religeous stuff" but I believe God originally made everyone speak different laguages at Babylon so we wouldn't band together and unleash evil. Wouldn't making a common language usher in the apocolypse?

a universal SECONDARY language, would accomplish what positive would be gained by universal linguistic understanding, without having to throw away, everything that is preserved by indigenous languages.

this is the path baha'u'llah and abdu'l baha advocated.

esperanto, while engineered to be more or less readily learnable has proven, i think, inadequate, by being excessively eurocentric.

amerenglish has become a kind of almost universal secondary language do to america's century of dominance, much as, though to a greater degree, then had french previously.
mostly, i think, besides the fiate accompli of economic dominance, its facility for deceptiveness.

none the less these trade pigeons tend to come and go.
yes i endorse constructing a totally logical secondary language. one making no compromise of its internal logic to emotional bias toward any existing language nor segment of the planet.

at the same time locally, reviving, reinvigorating, even, where necessary, resurrecting, INDIGENOUS languages.

But think of the disadvantages! People will start building a tower up to heaven and trying to usurp the deity, and then He'll have to curse us all.

EDIT: Damn! Beaten to it!

But think of the disadvantages! People will start building a tower up to heaven and trying to usurp the deity, and then He'll have to curse us all.

EDIT: Damn! Beaten to it!

By roughly 6,000 years.

I just had to speak as the voice for all the religous people out there.

I just had to speak as the voice for all the religous people out there.

No, you didn't... :mad:

Ok fine I just felt like saying that.

What's wrong with it?
English is already de-facto world language. Unless you want to sow the fields, or, worse, mop the floors all your life, you have to know it.


No. Outside english-speaking countries, one can become a lawyer, an historian, a politician, a journalist, a philosopher, an artist without knowing a single word of english.


Tried, failed.

You should try the REAL total immersion. Move to a place where almost no-one speak a word of english. Stay there for six months and get a job. You'll learn.

What about countries that are bilingual, like Finland?

Or Ireland and Switzerland (4 languages).
Also, regions, like Catalunya, Brittany (Breizhe, right?), South Tyrol (italian german and ladin)...

No. Outside english-speaking countries, one can become a lawyer, an historian, a politician, a journalist, a philosopher, an artist without knowing a single word of english.
But if you go into any kind of business that involves international trade, you will have to learn English. When Brazilians negotiate with Kuwaitis about bartering timber for oil, they don't speak Portuguese or Arabic.

You should try the REAL total immersion. Move to a place where almost no-one speak a word of english. Stay there for six months and get a job. You'll learn.
Some people will learn. Some just don't have the knack. It helps if you were exposed to multiple languages while young.

What about all those people who hate the west. They would never want to learn english or any western laguage for that matter.

I hate to be "that guy with the religeous stuff" but I believe God originally made everyone speak different laguages at Babylon so we wouldn't band together and unleash evil. Wouldn't making a common language usher in the apocolypse?

global warming IS the apocolypse, and capitolsim ushered it in. (although marxism didn't help (avoid it) any eather.)

But if you go into any kind of business that involves international trade, you will have to learn English. When Brazilians negotiate with Kuwaitis about bartering timber for oil, they don't speak Portuguese or Arabic.

Agreed... but international trade doesn't cover ALL high-income jobs.

Some people will learn. Some just don't have the knack. It helps if you were exposed to multiple languages while young.
A good teacher also helps. Anyway, I've noticed that most people who have english as mother-language find difficult to learn other languages. I blame it on how the english language is taught. Too small emphasis on syntax formalism.

English should be used.

I hate to be "that guy with the religeous stuff" but I believe God originally made everyone speak different laguages at Babylon so we wouldn't band together and unleash evil. Wouldn't making a common language usher in the apocolypse?
Babel, not Babylon. Two different things.
What about all those people who hate the west. They would never want to learn english or any western laguage for that matter.

A sizable chunk of 'em speak English.

Have you heard? Its called English.

Yes. Latin or ancient Greek.

Don't be daft. Some things are better expressed in their native language. German literature is best read in German, English in English, French in French. There can be no single language to cover the breadth of human expression. It's simply not possible without creative disaster - expression would become perpetually neutral and grey.

Let us all use QUENYA!
Pfft, no, the black speech.
What's wrong with it?
Isn't it really difficult for non-native speakers to learn?

English is already de-facto world language. Unless you want to sow the fields, or, worse, mop the floors all your life, you have to know it.
Except not at all. For every job in America which doesn't involve speaking to someone in another country there's about ~100-130 jobs just like it in other countries, more than likely speaking a different language.



And even if people can learn to somewhat understand each other in a year, it will take a century for this Newspeak to become an actual language with its phrases, shortcuts, idioms, metaphors, structures, slang. Until then, it will be no more of a human language than Python with symbols replaced by words.
Quite. Without some international inquisition to force people to speak the original form of this new language it'll be impossible to keep people from bastardising it with their own native language and neologisms. Assuming you can get them all to learn it and start speaking it at all.
Or Ireland and Switzerland (4 languages).
Also, regions, like Catalunya, Brittany (Breizhe, right?), South Tyrol (italian german and ladin)...

Ireland isn't really bi-lingual though. Everyone(pretty much) is taught Irish, but only a tiny fraction of the population speaks it.

Only if its not English. Just to make all the rednecks in the states who are all pro-english as the officia language go BOOOOM.

English will merge with Spanish and Mandarin to become a new world wide international language. That will happen naturally in about 200 years.

English will merge with Spanish and Mandarin to become a new world wide international language. That will happen naturally in about 200 years.

English and Spanish are too different from each other and from Mandarin as to make that assumption of yours a bit far-fetched.

English and Spanish are too different from each other and from Mandarin as to make that assumption of yours a bit far-fetched.

Indeed. A more reasonable assumption, if any such assumptions are "reasonable", is the groth of "panglish"; if memory serves, it would be an amalgam of "English" English and the adaptions made to it by other cultures.

Some benifits of multilingualism:


http://www.biculturalfamily.org/benefitsofmultilingualism.html




Indeed it is.

I appreciate you taking the time to dig that out but it's full of holes in it's logic. I hope you don't mind if i criticise it?

2. be better at judging how many words there are in a sentence (whatever the practical utility of this skill);
And how is this useful?
3. be more capable of separating meaning from form (Ben Zeev 1977; Bialystok 1986);
How?
4. learn more rapidly in their L1, e.g. to read (Yelland et al. 1993), with a high positive correlation between FL study and improved reading scores (for children of both average and below average intelligence, Garfinkel & Tabor 1991), as well as improved performance in other basic L1 skills, regardless of race, gender, or academic level (Dumas 1999);
Correlation not causation, and I’m very sceptical about regardless of academic level, that's nonsense.
5. be more efficient communicators in the L1;
How?
6. be consistently better able to deal with distractions, which may help offset age-related declines in mental dexterity (Bialystok et al. 2004); their greater control needed to perform well on the experimental Simon task being accounted for either by the ability to hold two languages in the mind concurrently without allowing words and grammar slip from one into the other, or by superior working memories for information storage and processing;
better able to deal with distractions? what?#
7. develop a markedly better language proficiency in, sensitivity to, and understanding of their mother tongue (e.g. Johnson et al. 1963). For instance, graduating high school seniors with two or more years of FL study significantly outperformed non-FL students on achievement tests in their L1 (Bastian 1980; cf. also e.g. Van de Craen et al.’s (2006) account of children in multilingual schools in Walloon vs. their monolingual peers, and Nespor (1971) for an increase in expressive L1 oral productivity);
What’s FL study?
And what does "increase in expressive L1 oral productivity mean?
8. develop a greater vocabulary size over age (cf. Kosmidis 2006), including their L1 (Johnson et al. 1963), consistently scoring higher in measures of L1 English vocabulary, particularly when the language studied has Latinate roots (Masciantonio 1977), contrary to the fear that bilingual children may be ‘late talkers’;
Fair enough this one makes sense.
9. have a better ear for listening and sharper memories (Ratte 1968; Lapkin et al. 1990);
ahhh but is it caused by learning the new language or maybe people with better memories already have a better ear for listening? That’s a fallacy post hoc ergo proper hoc.
10. be better language learners in institutionalized learning contexts because of more developed language-learning capacities owing to the more complex linguistic knowledge and higher language awareness (Wolff 2006); thus, FL ‘best practice’ reinforces the L1 English language content of the general classroom (Curtain & Dahlberg 2004);
Makes sense, institutions are notorious for being far too complex.
11. have increased ability to apply more reading strategies effectively due to their greater experience in language learning and reading in two—or more—different languages (Nayak et al. 1990), with TL proficiency linearly correlated with reading strategy use (Hong & Leavell 2006), also in their native language (Garfinkel & Tabor 1991; Horstmann 1980; Johnson et al. 1963);
again post hoc ergo proper hoc fallacy.
Not necessarily due to greater experience, maybe because the kid's been taught better. And notice 'correlation'.
12. develop not only better verbal, but also spatial abilities (Diaz 1983);
This is nonsense.
13. parcel up and categorize meanings in different ways, e.g. colors (1) (Athanasopoulos 2001; Japanese has different verbs for putting on garments, hat, and other pieces of attire and two lexemes denoting ‘water’ depending on whether the speaker is female or male (although the young generation attempt to shun this gender-exclusive differentiation), Chinese has a separate word for going to the cinema, theatre, or doctor, while Swahili an assortment of greetings depending on the gender, age, and status of the person encountered);
Interesting I’ll admit this one is useful.

14. display generally greater cognitive flexibility, better problem solving and higher-order thinking skills (Hakuta 1986); they have better ‘measures of conceptual development’, ‘creativity’ and ‘analogical reasoning’ (Diaz 1985), divergent thinking and figural creativity (Landry 1973b; cf. also e.g. 1968, 1972, 1973a, 1974). “Bilinguals or multilinguals are more used to switching thought patterns and have more flexible minds” (UNESCO 1995:179). FL learners consistently outperform their peers in core subject areas on standardized tests (Masciantonio 1977; Rafferty 1986; Andrade et al. 1989; Armstrong & Rogers 1997; Saunders 1998). For instance, multilingual children in Brussels secondary schools outperform their monoglot schoolmates in problem-solving and fraction exercises (Van de Craen et al. 2006; cf. also Rafferty (1986) for higher math scores of language students and Armstrong & Rogers (1997) (2) for similar results in math and language arts; Campbell’s (1962) longitudinal study contrasting performance in all school subjects of FLES (FL in elementary school, 20 minutes per day) and non-FLES students, all selected to have IQ of 120 or above, suggesting that FLES has a positive effect; consistent improved performance on both verbal and nonverbal intelligence tests in Peal & Lambert (1962), Bruck et al. (1974), Hakuta (1986) and Weatherford (1986), on Performance IQ, Picture Arrangement Object Assembly in Samuels & Griffore (1979), and on Iowa Test of Basic Skills in Lipton et al. (1985)). Nope they're correlating smart kids being smart because of learning the new language, maybe they would have been smart anyway? (Post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy)
Depends how you quantify creativity...
Ha IQ tests are only a rough guide to intelligence and only useful in detailed analysis as opposed to a cross spread analysis.
Well of course they're going to get better at verbal and nonverbal intelligence tests, I bet these kids have had them before and probably from wealthy backgrounds.

A monolingual has in a sense a single other to model: all the people whom he or she encounters use the same world-view and the same language. A person who speaks multiple languages has at least dual others – a stereoscopic vision of the world from two or more perspectives. As we know from many studies of young children, this indeed has an effect on their cognitive development, enabling them to be more flexible in their thinking, learn reading more easily. The point is not so much that 2+2=4 as 2+2=5; it is not just the addition of a different world perspective to the person’s scope as the realisation that many perspectives are possible. Monolinguals therefore are not only restricted to a single world-view, but they also have more idea that other world-views are possible. Indeed this has always been seen as one of the main educational advantages of language teaching. (Cook 2001a) no rubbish, everyone has different views on the world you can't just ascribe it to language.
Again post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, what if maybe learning the new language isn't necessary to adding a larger view of the world, what if all the kids have to do is just study other countries in themselves?

15. early FL study results in substantial and long-lived benefits to the developing brain: “[t]he learning experiences of a child determine which [neural] connections are developed and which no longer function” (Dr. Michael Phelps, Chairman of the Department of Molecular and Medical Pharmacology, UCLA School of Medicine, quoted in NNELL 1996);
Interesting, but the reasoning is clouded and not clear.
16. expand their personal horizons and—being simultaneously insiders and outsiders—see their own culture from a new perspective not available to monoglots, enabling the comparison, contrast, and understanding of cultural concepts;
Yeah and how does this help cognitive ability?
17. be better problem-solvers gaining multiple perspectives on the issue (Kennedy 1994);
Again what if maybe the person had a privileged upbringing, they would find it easier by default to learn a new language and therefore make it look like the language helps.
18. have improved critical thinking abilities;
How?
19. possess extra skills in language use, e.g. engage in transfer, borrowing, insertional, alternational, inter- and intra-sentential code switching (3) (Grosjean 1989), mixing, and translation—patterns that are usual and natural rather than exceptional (as is in the case of monoglots), and analyzed as psycholinguistically motivated hybrid utterances serving different interactional, linguistic, pragmatic, cognitive and strategic functions (Majer 2006);
Okay so learning a new language helps add language skills, yep can't deny that. But how does it help cognitive ability? how can you measure cognitive ability?
20. which may prove invaluable as, in some cases, the insertion of a foreign term may mean lower risk than e.g. omitting that term altogether for lack of a relevant translational equivalent in the person’s lexicon (Pym 2006);
Okay this makes sense, but doesn't relate directly to cognitive ability. Maybe better awareness of foreign concepts.
21. reverse underachievement and close the achievement gap if they had been struggling in other subjects, as such learners make the greatest proportional gains, since “extended foreign language study gives students of average intelligence a kind of enrichment they may not be getting from other studies or experiences” (Garfinkel & Tabor 1991). For instance, a significant correlation was demonstrated between improved reading scores of language learners of average intelligence (the improvement for children of above average intelligence was statistically insignificant); FLL helps alter the trajectory for these students (op. cit.; see also Andrade et al. (1989) for indications that achievement for children participating in the FL magnet program far exceeds national norms in reading and math);
how did they measure intelligence?
Again there could be other factors these researchers are ignoring.
22. thus, when pupils not accustomed to achievement in school excel in this area, it results in their developing a significantly higher self-concept and self-esteem (Masciantonio 1977; Andrade et al. 1989; Saunders 1998);
And what happens if the person can't learn the language and feels guilty and 'stupid' for not being able to learn it?
Too much focus on the kids who achieve an extra language.

23. better understand and appreciate people of other countries, thereby lessening racism, xenophobia, and intolerance (Carpenter & Torney 1974), as the learning of a new language usually brings with it a revelation of a new culture. FL study offers unique insight into other cultures and promotes intercultural competence – especially as “[t]he positive impact of cultural information is significantly enhanced when that information is experienced through foreign language” (Curtain & Dahlberg 2004), which is becoming increasingly sought after in the age of global interdependence and increasingly multicultural and multi-ethnic societies. Harvard Business Review (quoted by Schwarzer 2006) reveals that banks not only tolerate, but also celebrate and capitalize on diversity, which helps them make much more money annually; (4)
This is a brilliant point, but again it doesn't link to cognitive ability.
24. learn further languages more quickly and efficiently than their hitherto monolingual peers (Cummins 1981);
Why?
25. to say nothing of the social and employment advantages of being bilingual – offering the student the ability to communicate with people s/he would otherwise not have the chance to interact with, and increasing job opportunities in many careers.
Ah but the best way to learn a new language is to go and live in the country it is spoken, so new abilities will inevitably follow.
I like this point, but again it could be ascribed to increased wealth of person’s family and being middle/upper class.
Thus, just like Latin once used to be taught as an academic exercise, mental gymnastics with the aim of cognitive training, it has been demonstrated that people who know more than one language usually think more flexibly than monolinguals. Also many celebrated bilingual writers—such as John Milton, Vladimir Nabokov, Samuel Barclay Beckett, or Iosif Brodsky—attest that knowing a second language enhances the use of the first.
Who? (appeals to authority fallacy)
Some interesting points, but a very large number of them repeat what other points have made, and many of them can't account for increased intelligence due to the language or because of the opportunities being offered. not to mention the difference between causation and correlation can be picked upon without mercy.

If we look at the native speakers, English isn't used the most.

1) Chinese (1.1 billion)
2) Hindi (360 million)
3) Spanish (340 million)
4) English (322 million)

Now, I don't care. My idea is about constructing an entire new language.

look at 2nd languages speakers. and English is at the top.
to be honest there is a common language in business, even the proud french and Chinese will switch to English if money is involved.

Indeed. A more reasonable assumption, if any such assumptions are "reasonable", is the groth of "panglish"; if memory serves, it would be an amalgam of "English" English and the adaptions made to it by other cultures.

Ugh, you're talking about that cursed Spanglish. I truly dislike those who speak this abomination. I hope, with all my strenght, that Spanglish ceases to exist.

Damn it, Latino people in the US!! Speak English or Spanish. Don't mix the two! It harms both languages and it's retarded.

Agreed... but international trade doesn't cover ALL high-income jobs.

Still that does nothing to unseat English as the current de facto lingua franca.

A good teacher also helps.

Indeed, as well as exposure to natural language (a problem in my classroom).

Anyway, I've noticed that most people who have english as mother-language find difficult to learn other languages. I blame it on how the english language is taught. Too small emphasis on syntax formalism.

As far as US foreign language education goes, it simply sucks. One thing I've noted whilst living abroad for many years is how many places require the study of at least one foreign tounge.

Isn't it really difficult for no-native speakers to learn?

Depends on one's primary language. English, as a Germanic language with heavy Romance language influances, is much easier for Europeans than it is for those with a Sinitic language as their L1, and vice versa.

Ugh, you're talking about that cursed Spanglish. I truly dislike those who speak this abomination. I hope, with all my strenght, that Spanglish ceases to exist.

Damn it, Latino people in the US!! Speak English or Spanish. Don't mix the two! It harms both languages and it's retarded.

I've never encountered Spanglish; Panglish was, I think, the result of introduction of subcontinental and Carribbean terminology and accents into "orthodox" English. As evidenced, for the latter, in GTA IV.

Spanglish does not entertaining though.:wink:

Ugh, you're talking about that cursed Spanglish. I truly dislike those who speak this abomination. I hope, with all my strenght, that Spanglish ceases to exist.

Damn it, Latino people in the US!! Speak English or Spanish. Don't mix the two! It harms both languages and it's retarded.

I love Spanglish, they can have a basic conversation with either English speakers or Spanish speakers and only need one set of vocabulary. Besides at the rate of adoption of Spanish words into our language the US will be a Spanglish nation soon enough.

I love Spanglish, they can have a basic conversation with either English speakers or Spanish speakers and only need one set of vocabulary. Besides at the rate of adoption of Spanish words into our language the US will be a Spanglish nation soon enough.

Something horrible, in my opinion as a native, Spanish speaker. Something like Spanglish doesn't do any good to either Spanish or English.

Something horrible, in my opinion as a native, Spanish speaker. Something like Spanglish doesn't do any good to either Spanish or English.

I suppose you hate Portuguese, too? Granted, it isn't exactly the same situation, but it is the product of two separate languages merging.

Something horrible, in my opinion as a native, Spanish speaker. Something like Spanglish doesn't do any good to either Spanish or English.

Helps assimilation.

I suppose you hate Portuguese, too? Granted, it isn't exactly the same situation, but it is the product of two separate languages merging.

No, I don't hate Portuguese. Portuguese is a language, established and with identity, recognized by all and inherent in both Portuguese and Brazilian cultured. So is Spanish.

In the case of Spanglish, that is an abomination. It's not even a recognized language. It's just a faulty lingo.

It would make my job easier. One language for all. A dream. Execution is the hard part.

How do we go about enforcing this new language? You could say by convention. What do we do if they refuse?

Who picks up the check?

I think dialects and slang would be easier to work out that complete lack of understanding. We would just have to agree on the slang. You could standardize everything but it would be an enormous effort. Some would say English already fits this bill.

With regard to spanglish or Frenglish. I think English can only get stronger. We steal all the good stuff anyway, you guys are just making it easier. We would also like the German vocabulary. If you guys are taking orders.

Ugh, you're talking about that cursed Spanglish. I truly dislike those who speak this abomination. I hope, with all my strenght, that Spanglish ceases to exist.

Damn it, Latino people in the US!! Speak English or Spanish. Don't mix the two! It harms both languages and it's retarded.
How? The only way I can think a language would be harmed would be by it coming closer to "extinction". How does Spanglish lessen the number of people who speak English or Spanish?
No, I don't hate Portuguese. Portuguese is a language, established and with identity, recognized by all and inherent in both Portuguese and Brazilian cultured. So is Spanish.

In the case of Spanglish, that is an abomination. It's not even a recognized language. It's just a faulty lingo.

Isn't every romance language just faulty Latin that was left alone long enough to become distinct from the other kinds of faulty latin?

How? The only way I can think a language would be harmed would be by it coming closer to "extinction". How does Spanglish lessen the number of people who speak English or Spanish?

It's harmful when the communication is defective because people are speaking a mixture of languages that do not resemble each other. I don't know if you've heard Spanglish before, but I have. If you haven't, let me just give you examples of the chaos that mixing English and Spanish in general.

La norsa- Spanglish for nurse. There's a proper way of referring to a nurse in proper Spanish. The proper name is 'enfermera'.

El rufo- Spanglish for roof. Come the heck on, there's also a term, a proper one, for this in Spanish: tejado.

La marqueta- Spanglish for market. Correct way: mercado.

La furnitura- Spanglish for furniture store. Correct: mueblería.

Wacha wacha- Chicano lingo for look!. Either say watch or say 'mira'. The former expression is just retarded.

Languages evolve Nanatsu or they die.

Latin mixed with other tongues and gave birth to all the romance languages.

Something similar would happen with english.

It'd put millions of language teachers, professors, interpretors, and others out of employment. It'd eliminate much culture. No one would submit to it, and, most importantly my french teacher wouldn't be needed and she's all I have.

It's harmful when the communication is defective because people are speaking a mixture of languages that do not resemble each other. I don't know if you've heard Spanglish before, but I have. If you haven't, let me just give you examples of the chaos that mixing English and Spanish in general.

La norsa- Spanglish for nurse. There's a proper way of referring to a nurse in proper Spanish. The proper name is 'enfermera'.

El rufo- Spanglish for roof. Come the heck on, there's also a term, a proper one, for this in Spanish: tejado.

La marqueta- Spanglish for market. Correct way: mercado.

La furnitura- Spanglish for furniture store. Correct: mueblería.

Wacha wacha- Chicano lingo for look!. Either say watch or say 'mira'. The former expression is just retarded.

While I agree with you that it sounds retarded, I fail to see how it harms Spanish...

Languages evolve Nanatsu or they die.

Eso lo entiendo perfectamente, Santiago I. El problema no estriba en la evolución constante de la lengua. El español del siglo XXI es completamente distinto al español que se hablaba 100 años o 150 años atrás. Lo mismo debe suceder con el italiano o el francés. El problema es que se altere una lengua con otra, cómo ocurre con el español y el inglés que hablan muchos hijos de hispanos viviendo en los Estados Unidos cuando las palabras y expresiones que alteran tienen contraparte correcto en estos dos idiomas. No tiene sentido.

It's harmful when the communication is defective because people are speaking a mixture of languages that do not resemble each other.
But how does that harm either language? Maybe it offends your nationalist pride that people are misusing Spanish, but that's your problem, not one for the Spanish and English languages.
I don't know if you've heard Spanglish before, but I have. If you haven't, let me just give you examples of the chaos that mixing English and Spanish in general.

La norsa- Spanglish for nurse. There's a proper way of referring to a nurse in proper Spanish. The proper name is 'enfermera'.

El rufo- Spanglish for roof. Come the heck on, there's also a term, a proper one, for this in Spanish: tejado.

La marqueta- Spanglish for market. Correct way: mercado.

La furnitura- Spanglish for furniture store. Correct: mueblería.

Wacha wacha- Chicano lingo for look!. Either say watch or say 'mira'. The former expression is just retarded.

Welcome to the real world. Round these parts we don't always stick to the letter of the grammatical rules of the languages we speak. Sometimes because we just don't know them, or out of habit. The result is that our languages change constantly, sometimes even borrowing vocabulary and grammar from other languages.

While I agree with you that it sounds retarded, I fail to see how it harms Spanish...

It prevents the proper learning of it.

It prevents the proper learning of it.

No, it doesn't. It might make it more difficult, but no more so than learning any language makes learning another one more difficult.

But how does that harm either language? Maybe it offends your nationalist pride that people are misusing Spanish, but that's your problem, not one for the Spanish and English languages.

I think you're missusing the term "nationalistic pride". The problem is not about that, at all.

No, it doesn't. It might make it more difficult, but no more so than learning any language makes learning another one more difficult.

Yes it does. People who try to learn Spanish and guide themselves by listening to the language erroneously spoken as it happens with Spanglish, do not learn to properly communicate in it.

I think you're missusing the term "nationalistic pride". The problem is not about that, at all.

Perhaps I'm mistaken about your motivations then, but I'm confident that it gets across what I meant. Since you were targeting Spanglish and not the abysmal nonsense that some fans of anime pass off as Japanese(or so I'm lead to believe), I figure it might have to do with that. But again, I could be wrong.
Yes it does. People who try to learn Spanish and guide themselves by listening to the language erroneously spoken as it happens with Spanglish, do not learn to properly communicate in it.
That they cannot get a teacher or proper example of the language to learn from and instead use Spanglish is their own fault, not that of the "language" itself.

That they cannot get a teacher or proper example of the language to learn from and instead use Spanglish is their own fault, not that of the "language" itself.

I don't know from where you get that I'm faulting the language. I've been talking, all the time, about those who faultily use Spanglish instead of the proper language in itself. (ie. English or Spanish)

Only if its not English. Just to make all the rednecks in the states who are all pro-english as the officia language go BOOOOM.

as for THEM. if they want everyone to speak the language of where they are when they first got there, THEY should be forced to speak and learn the ACTUAL indigenous languages, of each exact place where they actually are, the ones that were there for ten thousand years, before amerenglish was brought over from europe.

i do believe this would be an excellent way to rejuvenate, and or resurrect, as the case might be, those indigenous cultures, which we just might, all, to at least some degree, benefit from.

Quis latine loquitur?

latine? What form is that? Non loquor, sed scio latinam linguam, at least I should.

Ah, who am I kidding. I learnt Latin, but I when I stand in front of some Roman monument, I don't understand the text...

Eso lo entiendo perfectamente, Santiago I. El problema no estriba en la evolución constante de la lengua. El español del siglo XXI es completamente distinto al español que se hablaba 100 años o 150 años atrás. Lo mismo debe suceder con el italiano o el francés. El problema es que se altere una lengua con otra, cómo ocurre con el español y el inglés que hablan muchos hijos de hispanos viviendo en los Estados Unidos cuando las palabras y expresiones que alteran tienen contraparte correcto en estos dos idiomas. No tiene sentido.

Son las personas las que le dan sentido a las palabras. Las palabras no tienen sentido per se.

Son las personas las que le dan sentido a las palabras. Las palabras no tienen sentido per se.

Independientemente, sean las personas o no las que le den sentido a las palabras, al César lo que es del César. Es absurdo usar 'Spanglish', no sólo absurdo, es incorrecto y es penoso que ese sea, en muchas ocasiones, el contacto linguístico de muchos desendeintes de hispanos en los EEUU. No hay nada más lindo que la herencia.

Lernt doch einfach alle Deutsch!

Independientemente, sean las personas o no las que le den sentido a las palabras, al César lo que es del César. Es absurdo usar 'Spanglish', no sólo absurdo, es incorrecto y es penoso que ese sea, en muchas ocasiones, el contacto linguístico de muchos desendeintes de hispanos en los EEUU. No hay nada más lindo que la herencia.

Tengo la horrible sensacion que en doscientos años alguien va a estar discutiendo lo horrible que es que los niños no aprendan correcto espanglish. :p

I would go for this; but only if the proposed universal language is cumbric.

Tengo la horrible sensacion que en doscientos años alguien va a estar discutiendo lo horrible que es que los niños no aprendan correcto espanglish. :p

Hombre, me has dado escalofríos!:eek2:
No digas eso, ni de broma!!!

I appreciate you taking the time to dig that out but it's full of holes in it's logic. I hope you don't mind if i criticise it?

Yeah, why didn't you? (Tip: For instance, asking "how" is not criticism, Just because you only read a one-sentence summary instead of a study doesn't mean there were no explanations provided there. Neither shows "this is nonsense" any holes in its logic)

I dont think we should have one overall language, just nother form of globalization. Besides, nomatter how hard i try, i cant seem to learn another languiage (i did french for 3 years with little success). And it aint short for squid, i dont think so anyway lol, we aint THAT obsessed wit fish and chips.

No, I don't hate Portuguese. Portuguese is a language, established and with identity, recognized by all and inherent in both Portuguese and Brazilian cultured. So is Spanish.

In the case of Spanglish, that is an abomination. It's not even a recognized language. It's just a faulty lingo.

Eh, I just checked and discovered my knowledge of the history of Portuguese was completely and utterly incorrect, so my comment about hating that language was meaningless. =p

Anyway, as has been said, languages evolve and merge. Spanish is an "abomination of Latin" but it's just a hell of a lot older than Spanglish. If it's the differences between English and Spanish that you don't think allow the two to mesh, well, obviously they do as shown by the people who use it.

I don't think Spanglish is ever used in official way, anyway, but please correct me if I'm wrong. It actually reminds me a bit of the difference between formal Arabic and spoken. Formal Arabic is, well, formal and fairly static, the differences between the various dialects though can be quite large in terms of vocabulary from what I've seen.

Spanglish hasnt been used in official documents but there are several books (novels mainly) where it is used. And there are ENTIRE novels in Spanglish.

Eh, I just checked and discovered my knowledge of the history of Portuguese was completely and utterly incorrect, so my comment about hating that language was meaningless. =p

That happens, no harm done.

I don't think Spanglish is ever used in official way, anyway, but please correct me if I'm wrong. It actually reminds me a bit of the difference between formal Arabic and spoken. Formal Arabic is, well, formal and fairly static, the differences between the various dialects though can be quite large in terms of vocabulary from what I've seen.

Indeed, it isn't used in an official way. It's not, to the best of my knowledge, a language.

It actually reminds me a bit of the difference between formal Arabic and spoken. Formal Arabic is, well, formal and fairly static, the differences between the various dialects though can be quite large in terms of vocabulary from what I've seen.

Indeed, from what I understand Arabic as Spoken in Morocco (par example) is vastly different from Arabic as spoken in Egypt.

Indeed, from what I understand Arabic as Spoken in Morocco (par example) is vastly different from Arabic as spoken in Egypt.

That has to do with idioms a bit more than what Post Liminality is referring to. Demo, Supeingo neko must go now. See ya laters!!

I am sure you all know this.

http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt

You can get the gist of what someone is saying but you have to play with it a little.

Eso lo entiendo perfectamente, Santiago I. El problema no estriba en la evolución constante de la lengua. El español del siglo XXI es completamente distinto al español que se hablaba 100 años o 150 años atrás. Lo mismo debe suceder con el italiano o el francés. El problema es que se altere una lengua con otra, cómo ocurre con el español y el inglés que hablan muchos hijos de hispanos viviendo en los Estados Unidos cuando las palabras y expresiones que alteran tienen contraparte correcto en estos dos idiomas. No tiene sentido.

Pero Nanatsu, como explique palabras como 'computadora'? Eres de España, yo se que los españoles no les gusta, pero el resto de las países españoles la usan. Esta es una palabra ingles originalmente. Que factores distintos tiene palabras algas de otras? El tiempo? Mi punto es la evolución es continuamente y tus palabras (extranjero ahora), están el paso siguiente.

Usa el 'vosotros'. En serio? Por favor.

latine? What form is that? Non loquor, sed scio latinam linguam, at least I should.

Ah, who am I kidding. I learnt Latin, but I when I stand in front of some Roman monument, I don't understand the text...

Depends when it was written, and for that matter, where. I'm perpetually staggered that people criticise the French for attempting to preserve their language whilst venerating a classical heritage in which written Latin was placed in stasis at the turn of the first century, and unaltered for the following centuries.

Try learning medieval Latin and medieval Greek, as muggins here does, and forever wondering whether the conjugation is intended or accidental.

Actually, I'm sure "latina" doesn't go into "latine". Fairly sure anyway.

That has to do with idioms a bit more than what Post Liminality is referring to. Demo, Supeingo neko must go now. See ya laters!!

It is verging on not being understandable though, which is what people are talking about with languages evolving.


As a note my knowledge of this is second-hand as I do not speak Arabic. My brother, on the other hand does though and he currently lives in Morocco and did a portion of his schooling in Egypt.

I would say Interlingua, many other languages such as chinese are hard to learn, and it is so easy!

Indeed, it isn't used in an official way. It's not, to the best of my knowledge, a language.
No, it isn't. But neither is spoken Arabic, news casts are all in formal and the like (at least, that I've seen...I'm sure there are many that are spoken, probably the majority).
That has to do with idioms a bit more than what Post Liminality is referring to. Demo, Supeingo neko must go now. See ya laters!!

Erm...not necessarily. Words are pronounced different, even letters. Jeem, especially, is a letter that seems to get changed. Like I said, the formal, as I've been taught, is the same across the board, but spoken can be vastly different, even though a Moroccan and an Egyptian can speak to each other. But I don't speak the language natively, hell I don't even speak it non-natively, I took formal for four years and after a year not taking it I've forgotten the vast majority of what I learned. Perhaps an Arabic speaking poster will correct me if I'm completely off base here.

Anyway, I've noticed that most people who have english as mother-language find difficult to learn other languages. I blame it on how the english language is taught.
The main reason is that most English speakers have little or no exposure to other languages when they are young.

Perhaps an Arabic speaking poster will correct me if I'm completely off base here.

Wahal al-muq barhib ar wadi. Ilihib akuwarr al seich.

Wahal al-muq barhib ar wadi. Ilihib akuwarr al seich.

Ya, like I said, do not. remember. a single thing. =p

I could never translate from English transliterations, anyway, as we focused a lot more on writing and reading than dictated Arabic so I need the letters to figure out wtf is going on. Something about a town? I dunno.

I'm studying Russian, now, so a lot of my Arabic knowledge is simply being replaced, too, as silly as that may sound. =\

وَحَل ألمُك بَرحِب أر وَدِ

إلىحِب أكُوَرّ ألسِيخ


As near as I can figure it. I know I made one mistake but its hard to correct.

Oh and for the record I think he made it up. Its just fun to do transliteration exercises.

Ya, like I said, do not. remember. a single thing. =p

I could never translate from English transliterations, anyway, as we focused a lot more on writing and reading than dictated Arabic so I need the letters to figure out wtf is going on. Something about a town? I dunno.

I'm studying Russian, now, so a lot of my Arabic knowledge is simply being replaced, too, as silly as that may sound. =\

:-) Let's say it's Arabic until somebody proves otherwise :tongue:

كيف حالك؟ اسمي حقا طوبى. ألف بركة عليكم وعلى

كل ما تبذلونه من الأسر.


I put my own translation back into the translator and you get a very different answer. Makes me laugh every time!

Where did they get Tuba from?

Welcomes the resolution of the office dealing with Dr. R


Probably not even close to what you said.

صَبا هَل حِر. إسمي فِرجينيَّ كوبِر. ما إسمُكَ؟

كيف حالك؟ اسمي حقا طوبى. ألف بركة عليكم وعلى

كل ما تبذلونه من الأسر.


I put my own translation back into the translator and you get a very different answer. Makes me laugh every time!

Where did they get Tuba from?

Where...something? My name (?) something something blessings with y'all and with all no(maybe? I think I remember ما is a negation depending on tense) something in something.

Ya...I have no idea. Probably got one word right in that.

I love this kind of like speaking in code with decoder rings

Saba Is free. My name is Virginie Cooper. What is your name?

This is funny!

I can't even respond back as my nickname won't translate properly


For the record I am using


My name translates Truly Blessed

I put in "my name is Truly Blessed" and hit the go button translate. Switch to Arabic to English

اسمي تبارك حقا!


Not what I put in My name is truth of brick




http://www.stars21.com/translator/arabic_to_english.html

I spelled sabaa wrong... but it got most of it right. Probably because my Arabic is about on par with the translator's. :P

صَبا هَل حِر. إسمي فِرجينيَّ كوبِر. ما إسمُكَ؟

Oh, this one's easy, aside from the first sentence. My name is VirginiaCooper. What is your name?

And the last one a tried, the ما is a "that" I take it? Yea, that's four years of Arabic studies bringing you that right there. =p

I understand that the Idea of one worldwide langiage would be very useful, but diversity is what makes earth so great! After 1 language, what's next? 1 outfit? 1 basic food?

ما means "what" in this particular situation. I spelled صباح الخير wrong too. Sorry about that.

ما تِلفُنُكِ?


That last bit was to all the hot ladies out there, exclusively. In case you missed the gender of my verb.

I understand that the Idea of one worldwide langiage would be very useful, but diversity is what makes earth so great! After 1 language, what's next? 1 outfit? 1 basic food?

duh.

ما means "what" in this particular situation. I spelled صباح الخير wrong too. Sorry about that.

ما تِلفُنُكِ?


I meant the ما in Truly Blessed's sentence, I realize yours was the question form. This one is asking what is your something-or-other to a woman?

Haha, something-or-other? You make it sound so dirty!

I understand that the Idea of one worldwide langiage would be very useful, but diversity is what makes earth so great! After 1 language, what's next? 1 outfit? 1 basic food?

Advice; engage brain before posting.

Uniformity of dress, the western labels and forms of garment notwithstanding, is unlikely given the diversity of global conditions, whilst similar variations preclude uniformity of food, coca-cola and McDonalds the exception.

I hate to be "that guy with the religeous stuff" but I believe God originally made everyone speak different laguages at Babylon so we wouldn't band together and unleash evil. Wouldn't making a common language usher in the apocolypse?


No. Greek came first. Then Latin absorbed Greek qualities and became the world's language. Then it splintered and other languages took their own beginnings and fused them with some Latin (Spanish, French, any romance language). Now we've got the patches-and-rags monstrosity of English which has Japanese, Old English, Slavic Languages, Arabic, Asian Languages, French, German, Spanish, and a slew of its own original traits. It wasn't God. Shouldn't base your claims on made up fairytales. Do research please.

Haha, something-or-other? You make it sound so dirty!

Well, all I recognize from that conjugated word is the suffix, though looking again I realize that it might just be لفُنُ with the "she" prefix and the "her" suffix What "she"-something-"her"? Don't recognize لفُنُ at all. I should really be writing a paper but this is way more fun. =\

I say we use Newspeak! How does that sound?

I was asking for a telephone number. maa tel-funuki? And with four years you've got a huge headstart on me - this is my second semester.

http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4191/img0771eg8.jpg

I was asking for a telephone number. maa tel-funuki? And with four years you've got a huge headstart on me - this is my second semester.

Oh...yea, that makes sense. This is what happens when you learn grammar but ignore vocab, even were I to be up to par on my Arabic I'd probably be scratching my head at wtf "lafan" means. Word of advice, study the crap out of your vocab; more than any other language I've studied, Arabic requires some hardcore studying of vocab.

Yeah my prof really emphasizes that aspect of it. We're learning grammar and vocab at the same time right now anyways. There are a group of girls that know everything (and whom everyone hates) and then the rest of us mediocre students.

I posted a picture of some writing for more fun translation!

I must say it is a fun looking language to learn. Arabic that is. It will be useful in years to come.

Yeah my prof really emphasizes that aspect of it. We're learning grammar and vocab at the same time right now anyways. There are a group of girls that know everything (and whom everyone hates) and then the rest of us mediocre students.

I posted a picture of some writing for more fun translation!

It really can't be emphasized enough, though. Serious vocab study is so incredibly important in Arabic; I neglected it and the only reason I passed was because I attended every class and the professors felt that I "tried hard." Also, if your university is anything like mine (though I hope its Arabic department is better....much as I love Purdue's Arabic department and as awesome as the people who work in it are, it isn't exactly "academically rigorous") you'll get a ton of Arab students who come in for the easy A and know everything in terms of vocab (even if their grammar sucks) and make all the other students feel dumb. =p

I recommend making flashcards for each unit and just practicing as you walk around your campus if you're serious about learning the language.

My prof is also the head of the MEI in DC, so he's pretty legit.

My prof is also the head of the MEI in DC, so he's pretty legit.

Ah, nice. Yea, my teachers were all just students from Arab countries working on their PhD's, so they weren't really very concerned about how much the students actually learned. Not to say they weren't all really cool people, but good teachers they were not. =p

No. Greek came first. Then Latin absorbed Greek qualities and became the world's language. Then it splintered and other languages took their own beginnings and fused them with some Latin (Spanish, French, any romance language). Now we've got the patches-and-rags monstrosity of English which has Japanese, Old English, Slavic Languages, Arabic, Asian Languages, French, German, Spanish, and a slew of its own original traits. It wasn't God. Shouldn't base your claims on made up fairytales. Do research please.

Far be it from me to point out that half the Roman empire spoke, and wrote in, Greek, and that the Papacy only adopted Latin as their primary tongue in the eighth century with fall of exarchate.

Ah, nice. Yea, my teachers were all just students from Arab countries working on their PhD's, so they weren't really very concerned about how much the students actually learned. Not to say they weren't all really cool people, but good teachers they were not. =p

One of the reasons I went where I do is that only profs teach classes at my school. No TAs.

There's no huge research requirement for them either so the focus is on me. Specifically.

I must say it is a fun looking language to learn. Arabic that is. It will be useful in years to come.I tried for a little while, but my eyes just don't see the distinction among those squiggles and my ears just don't hear the distinction between some of the consonants.

Learning a language can be fixed in one year.
Wrong. It takes seven YEARS to become proficient in a language. Trying to teach 6 billion people of varying ages to acquire a new language will be a long-term project.

I hate to be "that guy with the religeous stuff" but I believe God originally made everyone speak different laguages at Babylon so we wouldn't band together and unleash evil. Wouldn't making a common language usher in the apocolypse?
...like having different languages hasn't made for misunderstandings, xenophobia, and murdering each other?

And you seriously believe that happened rather than is a way to explain why there are so many languages and cultures on Earth?

What about all those people who hate the west. They would never want to learn english or any western laguage for that matter.
Right. Because no Middle Easterners or Asians speak English.

Oh, wait...

And you seriously believe...?
I think you missed the ... tags on that post.

The frightening thing is that no, some people really ARE serious. That may or may not be the case here.

True, it's always hard to be sure.

No. English isn't a good choice.

I think we should analyze several main languages and look for phonetic similarities.
Based on that, we could create a new language.

Learning a language can be fixed in one year.

A: I believe this is what Esperanto (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esperantu) was intended for.
B: Why not US English; it borrows and assimilates many languages already?
C: If I have learned one thing it is that no one language/nation/people last forever unchanged.

Problem with a universal language - in addition to the logistics issues - is that it'll be increasingly difficult to maintain it. Languages change over time, and they don't change symmetrically across all regions.

See another problem is MTV and the like. The language only stay pure if you monitor it and enforce it. Case and point someone tell me what EMINEM is talking about? By the way he does not speak for English people. He may not even speak English.


"8 Mile"

[Eminem]
Sometimes I just feel like, quittin I still might
Why do I put up this fight, why do I still write
Sometimes it's hard enough just dealin with real life
Sometimes I wanna jump on stage and just kill mics
And show these people what my level of skill's like
But I'm still white, sometimes I just hate life
Somethin ain't right, hit the brake lights
Case of the stage fright, drawin a blank like
Da-duh-duh-da-da, it ain't my fault
Great then I falls, my insides crawl
and I clam up (wham) I just slam shut
I just can't do it, my whole manhood's
just been stripped, I have just been vicked
So I must then get off the bus then split
Man fuck this shit yo, I'm goin the fuck home
World on my shoulders as I run back to this 8 Mile Road

[Chorus]
I'm a man, I'ma make a new plan
Time for me to just stand up, and travel new land
Time for me to just take matters into my own hands
Once I'm over these tracks man I'ma never look back
(8 Mile Road) And I'm gone, I know right where I'm goin
Sorry momma I'm grown, I must travel alone
ain't gon' follow the footsteps I'm making my own
Only way that I know how to escape from this 8 Mile Road

[Eminem]
I'm walkin these train tracks, tryin to regain back
the spirit I had 'fore I go back to the same crap
To the same plant, and the same pants
Tryin to chase rap, gotta move ASAP
And get a new plan, momma's got a new man
Poor little baby sister, she don't understand
Sits in front of the TV, buries her nose in the pad
And just colors until the crayon gets dull in her hand
While she colors her big brother and mother and dad
Ain't no tellin what really goes on in her little head
Wish I could be the daddy that neither one of us had
But I keep runnin from somethin I never wanted so bad!
Sometimes I get upset, cause I ain't blew up yet
It's like I grew up, but I ain't grow me two nuts yet
Don't gotta rep my step, don't got enough pep
The pressure's too much man, I'm just tryin to do what's best
And I try, sit alone and I cry
Yo I won't tell no lie, not a moment goes by
That I don't pray to the sky, please I'm beggin you God
Please don't let me pigeon holed in no regular job
Yo I hope you can hear me homey wherever you are
Yo I'm tellin you dawg I'm bailin this trailer tomorrow
Tell my mother I love her, kiss baby sister goodbye
Say whenever you need me baby, I'm never too far
But yo I gotta get out there, the only way I know
And I'ma be back for you, the second that I blow
On everything I own, I'll make it on my own
Off to work I go, back to this 8 Mile Road

[Chorus]

[Eminem]
You gotta live it to feel it, you didn't you wouldn't get it
Or see what the big deal is, why it wasn't the skillest
To be walkin this borderline of Detroit city limits
It's different, it's a certain significance, a certificate
of authenticity, you'd never even see
But it's everything to me, it's my credibility
You never seen heard smelled or met a real MC
who's incredible upon the same pedestal as me
But yet I'm still unsigned, havin a rough time
Sit on the porch with all my friends and kick dumb rhymes
Go to work and serve MC's in the lunchline
But when it comes crunch time, where do my punchlines go
Who must I show, to bust my flow
Where must I go, who must I know
Or am I just another crab in the bucket
Cause I ain't havin no luck with this little Rabbit so fuck it
Maybe I need a new outlet, I'm startin to doubt shit
I'm feelin a little skeptical who I hang out with
I look like a bum, yo my clothes ain't about shit
At the Salvation Army tryin to salvage an outfit
And it's cold, tryin to travel this road
Plus I feel like I'm on stuck in this battlin mode
My defenses are so up, but one thing I don't want
is pity from no one, the city is no fun
There is no sun, and it's so dark
Sometimes I feel like I'm just bein pulled apart
From each one of my limbs, by each on of my friends
It's enough to just make me wanna jump out of my skin
Sometimes I feel like a robot, sometimes I just know not
what I'm doin I just blow, my head is a stove top
I just explode, the kettle gets so hot
Sometimes my mouth just overloads the ass that I don't got
But I've learned, it's time for me to U-turn
Yo it only takes one time for me to get burned
Ain't no fallin no next time I meet a new girl
I can no longer play stupid or be immature
I got every ingredient, all I need is the courage
Like I already got the beat, all I need is the words
Got the urge, suddenly it's a surge
Suddenly a new burst of energy is occured
Time to show these free world leaders the three and a third
I am no longer scared now, I'm free as a bird
Then I turn and cross over the median curb
Hit the 'burbs and all you see is a blur from 8 Mile Road

[Chorus]

Its not about native speakers though... its about total speakers. You should also note that A. There are about 12 Chinese Languages, and B. The USA has no official language but nearly the entire population speaks English.. that's about 350 million people that are not on that list.

Hindi had a ton of different dialects, too.

Problem with a universal language - in addition to the logistics issues - is that it'll be increasingly difficult to maintain it. Languages change over time, and they don't change symmetrically across all regions.

That could be mitigated by having two forms of the language. One being essentially static(and thus used for formal events and when the primary dialect of various parties differ) and another dynamic version for everyday use.

The international language should be English because thats what Jesus spoke.
SRSLY.

It would be better if the entire world would speak one single language.

Think about the advantages:

* No translations needed anymore.
* Writers, documentary makers, movie directors, newspapers etc., will have a bigger forum
* It would improve education around the world.
* You can pick-up chicks easier around the globe.

Don't start moaning about Esperanto, which is European oriented and not fit for the entire world (by instance, it's using 'r' and 'l' which is hard to use for Chinese and Japanese people).

So what do you think?

Fuck no, no sexy accents then. Or cool foreign languages.

*sigh*

No, because then my education would have been a waste of time. Half of my A-Levels were foreign languages. They'd still be useful for source material-y stuff from history, but that's about it.

...like having different languages hasn't made for misunderstandings, xenophobia, and murdering each other?

Sounds like something our old testament god would want.

B: Why not US English; it borrows and assimilates many languages already?
Too much "good", not enough "well", also a painful lack of "ly" on adverbs such as "really".

*sigh*

No, because then my education would have been a waste of time. Half of my A-Levels were foreign languages. They'd still be useful for source material-y stuff from history, but that's about it.

I'm a part time translator studying to be a linguist. How useless would I be?

Fuck no, no sexy accents then.

Since every speaker of a single language, such as English, has the same accent?

I'm a part time translator studying to be a linguist. How useless would I be?
Outstandingly.

Since every speaker of a single language, such as English, has the same accent?

They would lose some of their native sounds, like french r.

Outstandingly.

As if I'm not already. Life is good. :p

They would lose some of their native sounds, like french r.
Pourquoi, man?
As if I'm not already. Life is good. :p
What other language is it that you speak?

How bout this idea. One official language that everyone can learn, but all the contries keep their own language.

How bout this idea. One official language that everyone can learn, but all the contries keep their own language.
Right so what are you changing here?

English is the language of everything important already.

Right so what are you changing here?

English is the language of everything important already.

Shhh. The French might get offended.

Pourquoi, man?


Cause they wont need it. Eg: most Quebec'ers.

How bout this idea. One official language that everyone can learn, but all the contries keep their own language.

I think its gonna be like that in future, more or less. Prolly 2 de facto official languages. English and Chinese.

Cause they wont need it. Eg: most Quebec'ers.
The Québecois would keep their accents just to piss off the former Anglophones.

The Québecois would keep their accents just to piss off the former Anglophones.

Nope. I've been to Quebec and have a good Quebecker (:D) buddy. His english is unaccented actually (ie: n. american)

Nope. I've been to Quebec and have a good Quebecker (:D) buddy. His english is unaccented actually (ie: n. american)
That's to'lly tragic eh.

Dont we already Call this English? lol

See another problem is MTV and the like. The language only stay pure if you monitor it and enforce it. Case and point someone tell me what EMINEM is talking about? By the way he does not speak for English people. He may not even speak English.


Meh? You ain't complaining about him using "ain't" or "gon", are you? What would you not understand in that text?

Eway allway ouldshay eakspay igpay atinlay.

See another problem is MTV and the like. The language only stay pure if you monitor it and enforce it. Case and point someone tell me what EMINEM is talking about? By the way he does not speak for English people. He may not even speak English.

There is nothing at all in that song that is difficult to understand. Most of it is standard U.S. English. Now, I can see where you have trouble understanding songs written in urban dialects, especially when they use very localized vocabulary, like this:

Tell the cops don't read into it
Them days of slangin' yay be finished
Them days have been done ended
So far gone them days that I'm offended

...

And I ain't playin' fair wit' my eye on the enemy
Huggin' the block just me and my mini-me
Did and lived it, grinded here
Cops fillin' wit' my projects find it yeah

...

I play the field like Vick, endzone to endzone
Serve that ish like snowcones in the hood
Entrenched in the gutter, I was lost in the good
'Cuz I make the gat stutta like a ol' G should

To understand all of the lyrics above, you have to understand both the grammar and structure of "most" black urban dialects, and the particular vocabulary used in the Bay Area ("yay", "fillin' (fillying), "ish", etc.). However, that is not "MTV" English--in fact, it's mostly under-represented on MTV. It's the way real people of a certain dialect speak.

That's to'lly tragic eh.

I think everyone should try to write a short post that illustrates their accent (like saying "to'lly"). Just for my entertainment.

California had a ballot proposition to make English the only official language:

WHEREAS, like, this Spanish is gettin wayway out a hand, and, you know, Chinese, I mean gag me, wherefore be it resolved, like, English is the only totally awesome language, and them others aint gonna cut it in our crib no more.

How? By studying less? Faaaaiillll...

Do I really have to explain this? By instance, it would certainly improve education because the access to study material would be wider.



I know many Chinese here in Milan who learned to pronounce "r" and "l" correctly.


Never take yourself as the standard.


Anyway, more language = more cultural diversity = more ideas. One language = BORING.

You can have your diversity with one language as well. It's not boring. Currently, we waste years to learn several languages. Time that could be spend to stuff that really matters.

Never take yourself as the standard.

:confused: I'm not Chinese. I'm stating that, given a decent teacher, or a full-immersion in a foreign language, most difficulties about learning FL can be overcome.

You can have your diversity with one language as well. It's not boring. Currently, we waste years to learn several languages. Time that could be spend to stuff that really matters.
No, I don't think that I wasted time learning several languages. It enriched my culture, and my comprehension of foreign people. And this really matters in a multicultural world.

I hate to be "that guy with the religeous stuff" but I believe God originally made everyone speak different laguages at Babylon so we wouldn't band together and unleash evil. Wouldn't making a common language usher in the apocolypse?

*roflmao

I'm almost tempted to sig that.

:confused: I'm not Chinese. I'm stating that, given a decent teacher, or a full-immersion in a foreign language, most difficulties about learning FL can be overcome.

I understand. But what I wanted to explain was: YOU know Chinese people who don't have a problem with 'r' and 'l'. But believe me, there are many Chinese people who really have a problem with those characters.


No, I don't think that I wasted time learning several languages. It enriched my culture, and my comprehension of foreign people. And this really matters in a multicultural world.

In our world it isn't a waste. I'm glad I can express myself in three languages. But it took a long time to learn and it is still going on.

Many people in the north of France only speak French. If I can't speak French then I can't communicate with them. I'm even silent about indians in the jungle. :)

Yes. Latin or ancient Greek.

*lol Have you ever met my grandfather? I think you'd really like each other...

English and Spanish are too different from each other and from Mandarin as to make that assumption of yours a bit far-fetched.

You'd think that about English and Hindi or English and French as well, yet they have merged in the past.
Languages are immensely adaptable.

I understand. But what I wanted to explain was: YOU know Chinese people who don't have a problem with 'r' and 'l'. But believe me, there are many Chinese people who really have a problem with those characters.

Ok; not impossible to overcome that, though.
I agree that one can have a bad time in Dnd if he keeps mixing "rich" with "lich", anyway. ;)


In our world it isn't a waste. I'm glad I can express myself in three languages. But it took a long time to learn and it is still going on.
Many people in the north of France only speak French. If I can't speak French then I can't communicate with them. I'm even silent about indians in the jungle. :)
Ok... but that's their problem if they know ONE language only! Let's say I'm going to, dunno, Tunisia. I don't understand a single word of Arabic, but at least I can try with at least other three languages that aren't Italian. If they don't understand, well, I guess that we'll find someone able to translate.

Lernt doch einfach alle Deutsch!

Denglish FTW! :D

Isn't humanity redundant enough?

How about Hebrew or one of the other oldest languages?
Actually just put an end to American English, colour keeps highlighting a spelling mistake.

My real opinion is to leave it alone, all of it. There are nuances within languages that would simply be lost as they are beyond simple translations.

Killing a peoples language would be destroying a huge part of culture. It would be the equivalent of all towns and villages looking alike. The same old shopping malls along with the destruction of the individual.

A terrible idea

Ok; not impossible to overcome that, though.
I agree that one can have a bad time in Dnd if he keeps mixing "rich" with "lich", anyway. ;)


Ok... but that's their problem if they know ONE language only! Let's say I'm going to, dunno, Tunisia. I don't understand a single word of Arabic, but at least I can try with at least other three languages that aren't Italian. If they don't understand, well, I guess that we'll find someone able to translate.

They also speak French in Tunesia. And if you can't communicate with them, you need a translator. Which isn't always possible, expensive and time consuming. That's partly the whole point of the one-language-for-all.

How about Hebrew or one of the other oldest languages?
Actually just put an end to American English, colour keeps highlighting a spelling mistake.

My real opinion is to leave it alone, all of it. There are nuances within languages that would simply be lost as they are beyond simple translations.

Killing a peoples language would be destroying a huge part of culture. It would be the equivalent of all towns and villages looking alike. The same old shopping malls along with the destruction of the individual.

A terrible idea

The English are cultural spoken different as the Americans or Australians. Their own culture isn't blocked by their shared language.

It seems that everyone is protecting his or her own corner and only look at the disadvantages. There are some clear advantages as well, no ? :)

How about Hebrew or one of the other oldest languages?
Actually just put an end to American English, colour keeps highlighting a spelling mistake.

My real opinion is to leave it alone, all of it. There are nuances within languages that would simply be lost as they are beyond simple translations.

Killing a peoples language would be destroying a huge part of culture. It would be the equivalent of all towns and villages looking alike. The same old shopping malls along with the destruction of the individual.

A terrible idea

Why would anyone particularly want to go with an old language?
And why do some people think it's a good idea to try and resurrect dead ones? I live in Ireland, I can tell you that even trying to revive a dying language is prohibitively expensive and frustratingly pointless. Why even bother with one that's dead already?

I don't like the idea of introducing the same first language for everyone, but I do see the benefits of giving everyone a common second language. However, I would want it to be as easy and cheap as possibly, which is why from what I can see the most sensible choice would indeed be one of the many forms of English. I don't really mind if it's American, British, Irish, Indian, Caribbean, Australian or any other form or even a pidgin or creole. It's possible to understand each other in any of those, with a bit of patience.

Pero Nanatsu, como explique palabras como 'computadora'?

Para ese anglicismo hay, de hecho, una palabra correcta en español: ordenador.

Eres de España, yo se que los españoles no les gusta, pero el resto de las países españoles la usan.

La palabra 'computadora' es aceptable ya que fue incluída en el registro de la Real Academia de la Lengua Española. Pero no es el término correcto.

Esta es una palabra ingles originalmente. Que factores distintos tiene palabras algas de otras? El tiempo? Mi punto es la evolución es continuamente y tus palabras (extranjero ahora), están el paso siguiente.

Esto no es sólo un punto sobre evolución. Es también un punto sobre uso, y en este caso, uso propio.

Usa el 'vosotros'. En serio? Por favor.

Disculpa, pero los únicos que utilizan el 'vosotros' somos los españoles. Si crees que no hay adapataciones de esa palabra en Latino América, estás equivocado. Escucha a un argentino hablando, y ésto te lo puede confirmar cualquier persona que conozca gente de Argentina, y verás que ellos también utilizan una variante de 'vosotros' (usted) que es 'vos' (tú/ti).

It seems that everyone is protecting his or her own corner and only look at the disadvantages. There are some clear advantages as well, no ? :)

And these are?

And these are?

Well, in Pidgin languages there is a chance of enabling you to stretch the capacity of your expression beyond the boundaries of what the two original languages would have allowed you to.

Well, in Pidgin languages there is a chance of enabling you to stretch the capacity of your expression beyond the boundaries of what the two original languages would have allowed you to.

But this would require a massive, costly re-educating campaing. And how would one erradicate regional dialects? Would the rest of the languages remain untouched?

But this would require a massive, costly re-educating campaing. And how would one erradicate regional dialects? Would the rest of the languages remain untouched?

I'm not planning on erradicating anything. I'm repeating again, I do not think it's a good idea to force people to one common first language. I do however believe that a common second language would be beneficial.
However, I don't fool myself to believe that everybody will be speaking the exact same language. English is a prime example case here : It's spoken all over the planet, but in many many different variations. Sometimes just accents, sometimes creole or pidgin dialects. In all cases where it is second official language, it has been heavily coloured by the first language of the country of community. And if anything, this has made the language itself much richer.