NationStates Jolt Archive

In effect, they were willing to pay a 22% tax on their starting salary to have a male boss[....]

In fact, they were willing to sacrifice quite a bit to have a thin team-mate. They would trade 11 IQ points—about 50% of the range of IQs available—for a colleague who was suitably slender[....]

As they waited, the black “student” stepped out of the room to retrieve a mobile phone, gently bumping the knee of the white “student” on the way out. Then, one of three things happened: either the incident passed without comment; or the white “student” remarked “Typical, I hate it when black people do that”; or he sniped “Clumsy ******” [the article uses the actual slur].

[...]a majority of those imagining the encounter predicted that they would not pick the racist student as their partner. However, those who were actually present in the room showed no tendency to shun the white student, even when he had been rude about the black one....


http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12926026

How sad. Are there any recommendations for what should be done to root this out?

Want to quote that for those like me too lazy (or cuz we got dail-up) to click the link?

Shoot all the "behavioural scientists" whose job it is to state the obvious, and then do something constructive like education.

Want to quote that for those like me too lazy (or cuz we got dail-up) to click the link?
Just the important parts, okay?

... Respondents said they'd pay $100 not to associate on line with anyone using dialup and $250 not associate with anyone that couldn't use a spelling checker.

this is great news for slender white males like me! :)

this is great news for slender white males like me! :)

Who think slavery can be for "the greater good"?

Who think slavery can be for "the greater good"?

...

yeah fuck lets send dem Africans back to the plantations yeeehaw! *plays banjo*

oh wait you mean that hyperbole that you made...oh right I see

oh wait you mean that hyperbole that you made...oh right I see

I was merely quoting you.

http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=14416857&postcount=4

Just the important parts, okay?

... Respondents said they'd pay $100 not to associate on line with anyone using dialup and $250 not associate with anyone that couldn't use a spelling checker.


The "cuz" was part of the joke... -.-


And perhaps they didn't say anything about the "rude" white student because they didn't want to stand our or cause a conflict? You know the bystander effect during a bullying?

By the way, does that mean I going to be rich? :o

Their study does not support their conclusion on the racism front.

One of the commenters of the article said it succinctly:

The Science article trial is testing one's tolerance[sic] for working with racists, rather than whether one is a racist. Really it's a test of one's political correctness.

They had a white guy make a racist comment and then ask, basically, if you could work with him. That's not asking if you're racist - that's asking if you tolerate racism in other people.

In addition, a sample size of 60 people (in their 20s who are all college students) is too small for any real sampling.

I have 2 ideas:

1) greater integration at an earlier age

2) stop using one's race as an excuse, yes, discrimination happens, but I'm sure everyone knows somebody who will "pull the race card" every time they don't get their way. No, not everyone does it, but the small minority who do create the stereotype for the majority who do not.

Shoot all the "behavioural scientists" whose job it is to state the obvious, and then do something constructive like education.
Who gets to say what is "obvious" and what is not? People used to think it was "obvious" that time was the same for all observers, until it was realized that time is different for observers moving at different speeds. Intuition is inherently flawed; we need to scientifically test things in order to truly know whether they are the case or not.

Who gets to say what is "obvious" and what is not? People used to think it was "obvious" that time was the same for all observers, until it was realized that time is different for observers moving at different speeds. Intuition is inherently flawed; we need to scientifically test things in order to truly know whether they are the case or not.

You're comparing Einstein's relativity to the idea that racism is still alive?

I have one idea: Kill *all* people. No people, no discrimination :D

Easy, huh?

Prejudice is still alive and kicking in America.

In other news, water is wet.

In other news, water is wet.

In other news, Poliwanacraca uses a sarcastic-hyperbole-pseudo-metaphor.

You're comparing Einstein's relativity to the idea that racism is still alive?

Yes. You see, blackness is a color. Color results from observing light waves. If you approach a black person fast enough, they are no longer black, and are thus less likely to have bad credit and chase white women.

Similarly, though, if you are receding very quickly from an Asian, they become less yellow, and suddenly lose the ability to do math and engineering.


EDIT: I can't wait to see how many people try to prove how brilliant they are by pointing out the 15 reasons this doesn't work.

You see, blackness is a color. Color results from observing light waves. If you approach a black person fast enough, they are no longer black, and are thus less likely to have bad credit and chase white women.

Sigged.

Sigged.

Be ready for about a thousand people to PM you, trying to be very helpful by explaining that blackness is the absence of color, and then trying to explain why the doppler effect color shifting of emitters and observers relative to each other does not effect one's appetite for white women.

Be ready for about a thousand people to PM you, trying to be very helpful by explaining that blackness is the absence of color, and then trying to explain why the doppler effect color shifting of emitters and observers relative to each other does not effect one's appetite for white women.

I like you. :p

I like you. :p

You just have a wide palate for humor, which probably comes from either broad early exposure to various comedic milieu, or because you live in America's wang.

You just have a wide palate for humor, which probably comes from either broad early exposure to various comedic milieu, or because you live in America's wang.

I do live in America's wang.

I do live in America's wang.

I know, its in your "Location" field.

I think Miami had a great lesson to teach us all about racism.

Crockett and Tubbs, black and white, ebony and ivory, living together in perfect harmony, driving high end sports cars and wearing pastel suits with t-shirts, busting coke dealers and boning hot guest stars.

That's the real solution to race issues in america.

Every black man should be issued a Ferrari, a semi-auto pistol, a badge, and a poorly-shaven white man in a baby blue suit with a pink t-shirt.

Yes, America. We can.

You're comparing Einstein's relativity to the idea that racism is still alive?
In the sense that Einstein's relativity is an example of how intuition gives us a distorted perception of reality, and sometimes we need science in order to truly know whether it's accurate or not...

In the sense that Einstein's relativity is an example of how intuition gives us a distorted perception of reality, and sometimes we need science in order to truly know whether it's accurate or not...

Does anyone really need science to tell them that racism still exists?

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12926026

How sad. Are there any recommendations for what should be done to root this out?

Oh boo hoo. It's a fact of life and it's not going to change... It's not like it's government endorsed anymore.

I don't know, maybe because I'm a Jew and have actually faced prejudice several times (mostly from African Americans, actually), I can cope with it better than guilty high horse liberals.

But who knows? Maybe I'm actually crying on the inside from all those nasty comments they made about my nose.

Does anyone really need science to tell them that racism still exists?
Well, they'd probably need it to estimate where and how much of it. o.o

Oh boo hoo. It's a fact of life and it's not going to change... It's not like it's government endorsed anymore.

I don't know, maybe because I'm a Jew and have actually faced prejudice several times (mostly from African Americans, actually), I can cope with it better than guilty high horse liberals.

But who knows? Maybe I'm actually crying on the inside from all those nasty comments they made about my nose.

Arguement One: Its ok because its not organized!

Arguement Two: Because it happened in the past, that makes it ok now!

Arguement One: Its ok because its not organized!

Arguement Two: Because it happened in the past, that makes it ok now!

Never said it was OK, I just said it's a fact of life... Some things you can't change, like the hearts and minds of other individuals.

Besides, people who do that sort of stuff will say something to the wrong guy and end up with a black eye, a broken nose, and a busted lip...

Also, please don't presume to lecture me until you've been called a, "Rich, stinking, big-nosed, Jewish pig." (Among other things) and you have family who are still tattooed like cattle from the Holocaust.

I think saying racism is a fact of life is like saying that religion explains everything. It encourages us to do nothing to the contrary.

I think saying racism is a fact of life is like saying that religion explains everything. It encourages us to do nothing to the contrary.

Funny that you say that... I happen to be religious.

If you can't do anything, why try? It makes no sense when you could be doing things that can be done.

Never said it was OK, I just said it's a fact of life... Some things you can't change, like the hearts and minds of other individuals.

Which is why everyone in the South still hates black people, right?

Besides, people who do that sort of stuff will say something to the wrong guy and end up with a black eye, a broken nose, and a busted lip...

And that wrong guy ends up in court. Awesome!


Also, please don't presume to lecture me until you've been called a, "Rich, stinking, big-nosed, Jewish pig." (Among other things) and you have family who are still tattooed like cattle from the Holocaust.

You presume Im not black, jewish, etc.

Funny that you say that... I happen to be religious.

If you can't do anything, why try? It makes no sense when you could be doing things that can be done.

Who are you to say nothing can be done?

Which is why everyone in the South still hates black people, right?


That's total horse-hockey... I've lived in Alabama for about 6 years and I have yet to see anything reminicent of the '60's... Let me ask you a question, have you ever BEEN to the South?

Everytime I've had my ethnicity thrown in my face I was in the north... Especially when I lived in Chicago.

Who are you to say nothing can be done?

Good luck changing people's minds. Hats off to you if you can do it.

Good luck changing people's minds. Hats off to you if you can do it.

Time does the job for me. So when I say all I have to do is sit back and wait... I'm not exaggerating.

Time does the job for me. So when I say all I have to do is sit back and wait... I'm not exaggerating.

To be honest as a child I was always told that racism was the most evil thing ever and it was horrible and one should never ever ever judge another person based on the colour of their skin. Only now, as a young adult do I watch talk shows and such where people talk about racism they have suffered or the racist ideas they hold. If racism had been presented to me in this manner as a child I might have developed some prejudices of my own. So ... in sum I think that telling children racism is wrong is an excellent way to stop racism.

Check out The State of Black America (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showpost.php?p=12633540&postcount=1). African-Americans (and other minorities) are still greatly disadvantaged in our society and white males are disproportionately privileged.

And racism is still very active in the marketplace. Check out these studies:
Race at work (http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf) (pdf)
Discrimination in Low-Wage Labor Markets: Evidence from an Experimental Audit Study in New York City (http://paa2005.princeton.edu/download.aspx?submissionId=50874) (pdf)
Discrimination against racial/ethnic minorities in access to employment in the United States: Empirical findings from situation testing (http://www.ilo.org/public/english/protection/migrant/papers/usempir/)
Culture, Information, and Screening Discrimination (http://ideas.repec.org/a/ucp/jpolec/v104y1996i3p542-71.html)
The Use of Field Experiments for Studies of Employment Discrimination: Contributions, Critiques, and Directions for the Future (http://ann.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/609/1/104) (pdf)

I particularly draw your attention to Race at work (http://www.princeton.edu/~pager/race_at_work.pdf) (pdf) which is easy to read and profound in its implications.

Among the findings are that "blacks are only slightly more than half as likely to receive consideration by employers relative to equally qualified white applicants." (p.3)

And, a "white applicant with a felony conviction appears to do just as well, if not better, than his black counterpart with no criminal background. These results suggest that employers view minority applications as essentially equivalent to whites just out of prison." (p. 6)

That's total horse-hockey... I've lived in Alabama for about 6 years and I have yet to see anything reminicent of the '60's... Let me ask you a question, have you ever BEEN to the South?

Apperantly my sarcasm went way over your head.

Everytime I've had my ethnicity thrown in my face I was in the north... Especially when I lived in Chicago.

Ive never seen anti-semetism in my home state. So, if we wanna play anecdotal evidence...

I have 2 ideas:

1) greater integration at an earlier age

how ? try not to make it like forced busing which turned out to be a catastrophe.


2) stop using one's race as an excuse, yes, discrimination happens, but I'm sure everyone knows somebody who will "pull the race card" every time they don't get their way. No, not everyone does it, but the small minority who do create the stereotype for the majority who do not.

you'd be surprised lots of whites pull the race card when they don't get their way.

Oh boo hoo. It's a fact of life and it's not going to change...

Like murder?

It's not like it's government endorsed anymore.

I suppose in that sense it is different from murder.

I don't know, maybe because I'm a Jew and have actually faced prejudice several times (mostly from African Americans, actually), I can cope with it better than guilty high horse liberals.

It is an extreme social flaw.

But who knows? Maybe I'm actually crying on the inside from all those nasty comments they made about my nose.

Did you not read the post? This is not just about "comments", it is about discrimination in things like jobs. Do you never wonder why certain segments of the population are stuck in poverty?

Oh boo hoo. It's a fact of life and it's not going to change... It's not like it's government endorsed anymore.

I don't know, maybe because I'm a Jew and have actually faced prejudice several times (mostly from African Americans, actually), I can cope with it better than guilty high horse liberals.

But who knows? Maybe I'm actually crying on the inside from all those nasty comments they made about my nose.

I love the circularity of this argument.

"I can complain about prejudice from people who face prejudice therefore no one should complain about prejudice."

:p

2) stop using one's race as an excuse, yes, discrimination happens, but I'm sure everyone knows somebody who will "pull the race card" every time they don't get their way. No, not everyone does it, but the small minority who do create the stereotype for the majority who do not.

Or maybe people shouldn't just write-off complaints about racism with the stereotype of "playing the race card."

That's total horse-hockey... I've lived in Alabama for about 6 years and I have yet to see anything reminicent of the '60's... Let me ask you a question, have you ever BEEN to the South.That's not a question. That's a...statement, or something. It's like you've already decided if he has been to the South, or not.

Prejudice might be kicking about, but that's because we lynched it.

Racisim and Prejudices will always be a fact of life. If you're not a WASP, then be prepared for prejudices, especially in this country. You can change the rules, you can institute policies after policies. However, the people who have the money, will find a way around those rules. There's a reason they have a team of lawyers.

Like one poster said, you can't change what's in the heart and mind of some people. If a manager don't want to promote someone because of the color of his skin, what's between the legs, whether not he's in a wheelchair or not, etc. Trust me, he'll find a way to get around those rules.

Which just proves, we need to send the lawyers to the sun. :tongue:

Racisim and Prejudices will always be a fact of life. If you're not a WASP, then be prepared for prejudices, especially in this country. You can change the rules, you can institute policies after policies. However, the people who have the money, will find a way around those rules. There's a reason they have a team of lawyers.

Like one poster said, you can't change what's in the heart and mind of some people. If a manager don't want to promote someone because of the color of his skin, what's between the legs, whether not he's in a wheelchair or not, etc. Trust me, he'll find a way to get around those rules.

Perhaps. But that doesn't imply that polices and rules are useless at preventing discrimination.

Prejudice exists everywhere, not just in the US. I do not like that the OP insinuates only America has any kind of prejudice whether deliberate or accidental. I don't think I need to state why.

In other news, water is wet.

Maybe so... but you'll be surprised how many peole claim that water is in fact bone-dry nowadays, so really we shouldn't have to worry about the possibility of drowning.

Ok, maybe I stretched the analogy too far, but at lot of research into subconscious prejudices and cognitions is interesting because it shows that despite our best efforts and what we report, at lot of people still have subconscious prjudices that will affect how they behave. Yet, there seems to be more and more a tendency of claiming this is no longer the case, especially among young people (or indeed a variety of other social groups).

Furthermore, the more we know about how deep these prejudices are and how they are formed, the more we can do to deal with them. The current theory is that it relates predominantly to exposure to other cultures and unique examples of individuals that go against the particular stereotype, but that's not been entirely proven, so more research is needed.

Psychology research often comes up with results that are only 'obvious' once they've been proven by research, yet before that people would quite happily claim the opposite is 'common sense'.

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12926026

How sad. Are there any recommendations for what should be done to root this out?

It is indeed sad, but prejudice is something so entrenched in society, not only in America, that it will take years of rooting it out and a lot of education. Tolerance must be taught, and this can only be achieved if the family nucleus helps.

Never said it was OK, I just said it's a fact of life... Some things you can't change, like the hearts and minds of other individuals.

Besides, people who do that sort of stuff will say something to the wrong guy and end up with a black eye, a broken nose, and a busted lip...

Also, please don't presume to lecture me until you've been called a, "Rich, stinking, big-nosed, Jewish pig." (Among other things) and you have family who are still tattooed like cattle from the Holocaust.

1) Facts of life are there to be changed, and yes, they can be changed. It won't happen overnight, but it sure as hell won't happen at all if you just lean back and tell people to get used to it.

2) I've been called a "stupid, fat, Nazi-whore" for being from Germany, despite having been born 3 full generations after the end of WW II. So please do allow me to lecture you.

1) Facts of life are there to be changed, and yes, they can be changed. It won't happen overnight, but it sure as hell won't happen at all if you just lean back and tell people to get used to it.

2) I've been called a "stupid, fat, Nazi-whore" for being from Germany, despite having been born 3 full generations after the end of WW II. So please do allow me to lecture you.

Wait.... you went back in time and all you did was offer your body for money to Nazis? Did you at least do something cool with the money you made?

Wait.... you went back in time and all you did was offer your body for money to Nazis? Did you at least do something cool with the money you made?

Nah... I got devalued when they introduced the new currency. :(

And you know what they say about Hitler? It's true. ;)

1) Facts of life are there to be changed, and yes, they can be changed. It won't happen overnight, but it sure as hell won't happen at all if you just lean back and tell people to get used to it.

2) I've been called a "stupid, fat, Nazi-whore" for being from Germany, despite having been born 3 full generations after the end of WW II. So please do allow me to lecture you.

Its the Swastika gene. Even though you pretend to be innocent and liberal, secretly you remember with pride the days goose-stepping through Europe with your spikey helmet.
Its like the muslims and the baby eating.

Its the Swastika gene. Even though you pretend to be innocent and liberal, secretly you remember with pride the days goose-stepping through Europe with your spikey helmet.
Its like the muslims and the baby eating.

Hmm... where did that gene come from? A sudden mutation at the beginning of the 20th century that infiltrated nearly the entire population of central Europe within a few years?
I smell an American conspiracy!!! They infected us!!!

Its the Swastika gene. Even though you pretend to be innocent and liberal, secretly you remember with pride the days goose-stepping through Europe with your spikey helmet.
Its like the muslims and the baby eating.

Except they didn't have the pickelhaubens in WW2!

Its the Swastika gene. Even though you pretend to be innocent and liberal, secretly you remember with pride the days goose-stepping through Europe with your spikey helmet.
Its like the muslims and the baby eating.

http://ui09.gamespot.com/968/lolwut_2.jpg

prejudice exists for two reasons; because humans are idiots and some of them still think they can get something out of it.

leveling playing fields and breaking glass cealings are things that CAN be done.

idio-economic fanaticism IS prejudice too. as, of course are those of belief.

we've seen a major glass cealing broken, and it does my heart good to have seen that.
playing fields, yes of course, we've still got many to level.

And you know what they say about Hitler? It's true. ;)

So he was a Mormon....

So he was a Mormon....

They didn't call him DICtator for nothing.

They didn't call him DICtator for nothing.

Everyone knows that Hitler and Cheney are the same guy.

Old news...

Everyone knows that Hitler and Cheney are the same guy.

Old news...

Hmm, the age is about right...

Hmm, the age is about right...

Except it isn't.

He'd be 119 by now.

Except it isn't.

He'd be like 100 by now.

Have you looked at Cheney?

Have you looked at Cheney?

Cheny does not look like the 3rd oldest person to have ever lived. For one he can fire shotguns

Cheny does not look like the 3rd oldest person to have ever lived. For one he can fire shotguns

Well preserved.

As I recall, Hitler started a war too, and it involved lots of guns. Hmm, the plot thickens.

(Btw, he'd be almost 120)

Except it isn't.

He'd be 119 by now.

Are you serious? If you honestly thought that he meant it, you should be shot in the face and have to apologize.

this is great news for slender white males like me! :)

It is true though; I can only care so much about rectifying inequalities that directly benefit me.

Are you serious? If you honestly thought that he meant it, you should be shot in the face and have to apologize.

Seriously have you seen Cheney? He'd give Skeletor a run for his money. Makes Hitler look Cherubic by comparison.

Except they didn't have the pickelhaubens in WW2!

Right you, get yourself, your suitcase and your facts and fuck off out of it.


So he was a Mormon.... !

Yep. Special pants and all.

In other news, water is wet.

Damn, I was hoping, for some reason, no-one had gotten round to this in the first 5 pages.

But yeah. This.

Its the Swastika gene. Even though you pretend to be innocent and liberal, secretly you remember with pride the days goose-stepping through Europe with your spikey helmet.
Its like the muslims and the baby eating.

Racism is a gene that needs to be rooted-out!

http://www.economist.com/science/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12926026

How sad. Are there any recommendations for what should be done to root this out?

This would make more sense if there were age breakdowns.