NationStates Jolt Archive

He is for massive bail-outs.

He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

He is against same-sex marriage.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

which makes you a....COMMUNIST!!!!! :eek:
http://nobo2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/n722020689_327766_4313.jpg

He is for massive bail-outs.

I support his economic plan.


He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

Source.

He is against same-sex marriage.

Because its political suicide to be for same sex marriage. The most liberal you can get is to be for civil unions. Which he is.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

Iraq: Bullshit. Youre either misinformed or lying.

Afghan: We need to be there because Bush neglected it and its going to hell now.


It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

:rolleyes:

don't bring any facts to discussions about the messiah. They don't like that here :p

Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.

Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.

This.

don't bring any facts to discussions about the messiah. They don't like that here :p
Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.

Im so glad we had the liberty of hearing both of your well argued, well reasoned, informed opinions.:rolleyes:

This thread is cute, with all it's inaccuracies and such. ^_^

Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.

Thereby making Rob Blagojevich one of the greatest Political Strategists to ever live.....Deny My Senate pick will you, TAKE THIS!!! lol...

I support his economic plan.
Enjoy your incredible inflation, pal!

Oh and the US loves Obama because, much like pineapple yoghurt, it's all very new and interesting and people want to try him once before going back to the apricot flavour yoghurt of the Republicans when his presidency turns out to be rather indifferent and leaves bits between your teeth.

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss.....

He is not Bush, I'd imagine.

He didn't lead us into a two front war.
He didn't continue giving tax cuts to the rich while spending like a drunken sailor.
He hasn't spent eight years marginalizing and alienating 49% of the nation's voting population.
He hasn't okayed torture as a means of getting (useless) information.
He hasn't pretended the economy was hunky-dory up until two or three months ago.
He hasn't given the fundamentalists more of a listen than any other group.
He hasn't tried to ram through a constitutional amendment to "protect marriage".

I'm sure he'll have fuckups of his own, but right now, it's clean slate time with no carryover of policy from a frankly terrible presidency.

Diplomatically it's far better off having Obama in charge of the US, foreign relations will greatly improve for one thing. Even if there are right wing things about him, he is far far far far faaaaaaaaaaar superior to Bush and McCain, which is what mattered in the election.

Because at surface level, he's the exact opposite of the guy that just got done wrecking us for 8 years.

We'll be fighting in the streets
With our children at our feet
And the morals that they worship will be gone
And the men who spurred us on
Sit in judgment of all wrong
They decide and the shotgun sings the song

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again

The change, it had to come
We knew it all along
We were liberated from the fold, that's all
And the world looks just the same
And history ain't changed
'Cause the banners, they are flown in the next war

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
No, no!

I'll move myself and my family aside
If we happen to be left half alive
I'll get all my papers and smile at the sky
Though I know that the hypnotized never lie
Do ya?

There's nothing in the streets
Looks any different to me
And the slogans are replaced, by-the-bye
And the parting on the left
Are now parting on the right
And the beards have all grown longer overnight

I'll tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a bow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
Then I'll get on my knees and pray
We don't get fooled again
Don't get fooled again
No, no!

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!

Meet the new boss
Same as the old boss

Did you ever see that movie 'They Live' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/) . Americans are mind controlled - the aliens are running the show - at this point there is no other logical explanation. That movie is so ahead of it's time.

Why does NSG love Obama?
It doesn't.

There are a number of very vocal posters who support Obama, but by no means does the entirity of NS:G 'love' Obama; as witnessed by this very thread.


Did you ever see that movie 'They Live' (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/)
"I came here to chew bubblegum and kick ass, and I'm all outta bubblegum."

Awesome movie.

Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.I am so pleased that you finally recognize the truth.


:rolleyes:

which makes you a....COMMUNIST!!!!! :eek:
http://nobo2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/n722020689_327766_4313.jpg

Why the Hell did they put flags on a burning buildings...and how come the flags on the buildings aren't burning? THis doesn't make any sense!

Because its political suicide to be for same sex marriage. The most liberal you can get is to be for civil unions. Which he is.

So when was the last time Separate but Equal actually worked?

Oh that's right, it never worked. Obama is phail in this regard.

Afghan: We need to be there because Bush neglected it and its going to hell now.

I actually supported the war in Afghanistan. It was a right and just war. Iraq was not.

It doesn't.

There are a number of very vocal posters who support Obama, but by no means does the entirity of NS:G 'love' Obama; as witnessed by this here thread.

There arent even that many posters who "love" Obama, just those of us who ideologically agree with a lot of his stances, and are tired of the same old tired smeers being launched over and over again by the same uninformed people.

Gets old.

He is for massive bail-outs.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing in this economy.

He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

The fuck?

He is against same-sex marriage.

no, and that is against him. He is for same sex civil unions though, which i support.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

He is in favor of expanding the war in Afghanistan to accomplish the goals there, and not using Iraq as a distraction from that goal. So am I.

He is for massive bail-outs.

He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

He is against same-sex marriage.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

Because, as anonymous posters on an internet forum, we have the benefit of not having to be realists. We don't have to compromise on our values to get stuff done because, frankly, everything said here is ultimately meaningless. Obama is not so lucky. He lives in the real world, not in the warm safe haven of an internet forum. He doesn't get to be as stubborn and uncompromising as he wants because he has to work with actual people in the actual real world in order to get things done. Defiantly pushing through personal political affliiations despite their general unpopularity would only ensure that he would not get anything done. He is forced to compromise on certain view points because of the other people on the other side of the aisle who don't agree with them and won't work with him unless he does compromise. So, to put it simply, Obama isn't a poster here on this forum, and therefore isn't held to the same standard.

I support his economic plan.

But if Bush did it...then what would you say?

Source.
"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," Obama said at the time. "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/27/AR2008122700962.html


Because its political suicide to be for same sex marriage. The most liberal you can get is to be for civil unions. Which he is.

Then do you think he is lying about his opinions (mind you, if he were I would not hold it against him)?

Iraq: Bullshit. Youre either misinformed or lying.

As far as I know, his initial plan was to leave Iraq the moment he gain office; but since there is a deadline now, he has decided to keep troops in there until the deadline ends, that way he can gain political credit for staying and leaving at the same time.

Afghan: We need to be there because Bush neglected it and its going to hell now.

What do you suppose we do? Just sit in there like we did in Vietnam? To keeping killing thousands to avenge American deaths?



:rolleyes:

It is true.

no, and that is against him. He is for same sex civil unions though, which i support.

So it's basically what Jon Stewart says, Obama is trying to show the gay community that he supports them, while showing the bigoted idiots that he doesn't really support them.

Fantastic. So same question to you, when did Separate but Equal actually worked?

He is not Bush, I'd imagine.

He didn't lead us into a two front war.
He didn't continue giving tax cuts to the rich while spending like a drunken sailor.
He hasn't spent eight years marginalizing and alienating 49% of the nation's voting population.
He hasn't okayed torture as a means of getting (useless) information.
He hasn't pretended the economy was hunky-dory up until two or three months ago.
He hasn't given the fundamentalists more of a listen than any other group.
He hasn't tried to ram through a constitutional amendment to "protect marriage".

I'm sure he'll have fuckups of his own, but right now, it's clean slate time with no carryover of policy from a frankly terrible presidency.
This. ^^

Plus, a lot of people think he is taking the right approach to the economic crisis. A poll I heard a day or two ago indicated that most Americans don't expect the economy to get magically fixed, but rather expect to be struggling with it for several years yet. I suspect that most Americans don't have much faith in the finanicial bailout packages, but don't see many better ideas to support. I do believe a lot of Americans are in favor of large scale infrastructure projects to generate new jobs over the next several years, and as long as Obama delivers on those promises, his economy plan will be supported.

But since he won't even start being president until tomorrow, I think the primary reason so many people are so high on him is because his coming in means that Bush is going out.

I'd be willing to predict that, as soon as he actually takes office, his approval/adoration levels are going to start sliding.

The fuck?


Hey now, we've never had totally insane accusations about "teh ebil moslem Obama" sourced before, let alone make any god damned sense, why do you expect it to start now.

I'd be willing to predict that, as soon as he actually takes office, his approval/adoration levels are going to start sliding.

I don't agree with this part. Right now, most of the popularity borders on worship.

It's not just popularity, or the way that people might like a popular political figure. This is more along the lines of an Eva Peron lovefest.

If he fails, he'll be popular right up until the last possible second, and then they'll turn on him as though he was the Devil himself - people will feel personally betrayed at a level they never knew was possible.

I don't. He's far too conservative for me.

I'd be willing to predict that, as soon as he actually takes office, his approval/adoration levels are going to start sliding.
Aye.

would anyone believe me if i said i was Obama?

which makes you a....COMMUNIST!!!!! :eek:
http://nobo2008.files.wordpress.com/2008/05/n722020689_327766_4313.jpgThat reminds me of this. :D
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/liberate-shit.jpg

I like Barack Obama because he's a very intelligent and charismatic man who surrounds himself with other academics and experts. He actually takes the time to know what he's talking about. He's willing to listen to experts even if those experts' opinions differ from his own. I like these qualities.

That being said, I didn't vote for him. He talks a mean game, but at the end of the day, he's a corporate puppet. Maybe different corporations than Bush or McCain, but different corporate masters are still corporate masters. Still, unlike Bush where I could actually see the puppet strings, they're much better hidden on Obama which allows me to hope I'm wrong. Maybe he really is what he says he is. It could happen. *keeps fingers crossed*

I don't. He's far too conservative for me.
Hear, hear.

would anyone believe me if i said i was Obama?

Seeing as you're not American, no.

Seeing as you're not American, no.

what if i'm lying?

So it's basically what Jon Stewart says, Obama is trying to show the gay community that he supports them, while showing the bigoted idiots that he doesn't really support them.

You know the thing about Jon Stewart? What I respect about him? That he's the first person to admit that he's not a political pundit, he's not an analyst, he's not a politician.

He's a comedian.

And taking your cues from someone whose job it is, is to make fun of things is probably not a good idea.

Fantastic. So same question to you, when did Separate but Equal actually worked?

Off the top of my head? Bathrooms.

On a more serious note, while I don't' support "separate but equal" I support it more than "not equal at all"

Off the top of my head? Bathrooms.
Never been to a women's bathroom with urinals.

Obama is liberal.
NSG is liberal.

But if Bush did it...then what would you say?
If we support his policies and then he went and actually carried out those policies, I would expect us to feel good about that. Wouldn't you expect that?

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," Obama said at the time. "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/27/AR2008122700962.html
That is not the same as saying that he said he would blow up whole neighborhoods. Your words were basically expressing your own opinion about Israel's actions and then "tarring Obama with that same brush." But that's not a valid argument. He did not say that he would blow up whole neighborhoods.

Also, Israel, gay marriage and few other issues are "hot buttons" in US politics in which only a fool or a very young and inexperienced person would expect a politician's public rhetoric to precisely match the applied policy. You SAY what will cause you the least trouble. You DO what will accomplish what needs to be accomplished.

This is why no US politician will ever stand in front of a camera and criticize Israel. That does not tell you anything at all about how they actually deal with Israel.

You're well known as a self-proclaimed realist. I'm surprised you didn't realise this.

Then do you think he is lying about his opinions (mind you, if he were I would not hold it against him)?
Yes, I believe he is, to the extent that I think his personal opinions are more liberal than his public rhetoric expresses.

As far as I know, his initial plan was to leave Iraq the moment he gain office; but since there is a deadline now, he has decided to keep troops in there until the deadline ends, that way he can gain political credit for staying and leaving at the same time.
And?

What do you suppose we do? Just sit in there like we did in Vietnam? To keeping killing thousands to avenge American deaths?
Are you suggesting that Obama has no strategy in place? And you would know that how? Or have reason to believe it why?

Seeing as you're not American, no.

In b4 some schmuck says "but neither is Obama.."

what if i'm lying?

Then you've lied exceptionally well, but it would explain your massive absence.

But if Bush did it...then what would you say?


Youre arguement is "I BET YOU WOULDNT AGREE WITH BUSH IF HE HAD A TOTALLY DIFFERENT ECONOMIC IDEOLOGY!"

You do realize how insane that arguement is, right?

And this:
"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," Obama said at the time. "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/27/AR2008122700962.html
is not this:
He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.



Then do you think he is lying about his opinions (mind you, if he were I would not hold it against him)?

Yes. Yes I do. I think he is toning down his opinion to get elected. And anyone who has a problem with that doesnt know how politics work.


As far as I know, his initial plan was to leave Iraq the moment he gain office; but since there is a deadline now, he has decided to keep troops in there until the deadline ends, that way he can gain political credit for staying and leaving at the same time.

See, we call that respecting the will of a sovereign goverment. Which isnt at all what you claimed earlier. See, we can remember what you type.


What do you suppose we do? Just sit in there like we did in Vietnam? To keeping killing thousands to avenge American deaths?

Or, we can finish what we started and set up a stable government and ensure the Taliban doesnt regain power.


It is true.


If you really believe the tripe youre posting, I cant help you.

Obama is liberal.

I wouldn't say he is.

Diplomatically it's far better off having Obama in charge of the US, foreign relations will greatly improve for one thing. Even if there are right wing things about him, he is far far far far faaaaaaaaaaar superior to Bush and McCain, which is what mattered in the election.

I certainly hope we can all agree with you on this point four years from now.

Never been to a women's bathroom with urinals.
Women don't need urinals. We can actually manage to get our piss inside a proper toilet. Neo Art's point stands. Like guys in bathrooms. :p

I wouldn't say he is.
He's a Liberal by US standards. Reagan probably would have called him one, anyway, and isn't that was really matters?

Never been to a women's bathroom with urinals.

That would be the separate part of 'separate but equal'.

I wouldn't say he is.

Then you'd be wrong. He was voted the most liberal Senator in Washington. Sen. Biden was the third most liberal.

Women don't need urinals. We can actually manage to get our piss inside a proper toilet. Neo Art's point stands. Like guys in bathrooms. :p
That's not what I call seperate but equal :tongue:

Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!

Then you'd be wrong. He was voted the most liberal Senator in Washington. Sen. Biden was the third most liberal.

Its funny that everyone a Republican ever runs against is always voed "most liberal senator in washington". They said the same thing about Kerry. And he wasnt liberal.
PALIN 2012!

Youre first post, and with that one closing comment, no one here with ny brain cells will take you seriously ever again. Well done.

He's a Liberal by US standards. Reagan probably would have called him one, anyway, and isn't that was really matters?

Thank you for clearing up that distincton.

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!

Lol, you're either a great satirist, or missed the point of my post totally.

Yeah he seems like the real deal. We shall see.

Then you'd be wrong. He was voted the most liberal Senator in Washington. Sen. Biden was the third most liberal.

Like Yootopia said, only by US standards, and I reckon he'll be American version of centre anyway.

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!
Awesome :D

I think he is more of a Centrist than a pure Liberal. A whatever work kind of guy.

Then you'd be wrong. He was voted the most liberal Senator in Washington. Sen. Biden was the third most liberal.
Someone voted tallest ever dwarf is not, compared to the rest of the world, tall.

Then you've lied exceptionally well, but it would explain your massive absence.

and i would be able to use NSG to rule the U.S. of A. it's simple really, all Obama has to do is even glance at NSG from time to time, i mean i glance at it from time to time, to get a rough feel for the lay views of him...maybe start a few threads testing how you guys feel about his views.
heh but of course i couldn't do that at the moment i'm a little busy.

Because he's a Democrat, and therefore allowed to hold these positions without being fired on. Also, he's black. If you complain about him you're racist and hate hope.

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!

There are critics and then there are critics who feel the need to point out that they aren't racist and not criticizing Barack Obama because he's black. Guess which ones I think are racist?

There are critics and then there are critics who feel the need to point out that they aren't racist and not criticizing Barack Obama because he's black. Guess which ones I think are racist?

The black ones?

There are critics and then there are critics who feel the need to point out that they aren't racist and not criticizing Barack Obama because he's black. Guess which ones I think are racist?
LG, please. This poster ought to live under a bridge, etc.

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!

Palin for prez thats a scary thought. See there's the problem with your two party system which you call 'democracy' you only have two unappealing options and your forced to choose.

But thats not all... once you do your obligated to support your choice and then *have only one of two opinions* on any number of issues. It's a prefect example of the dialectic game being used to control your little minds...

You have to remember, politicians are a separate species, they're a separate race of people (of the reptilian nature). They're all in somebodies pockets somewhat, they're all 'part of the establishment' in some way. What's good about Obama is that, he was the first politician for a while that was significantly more progressive than his predecessors but STILL had a chance at winning, even though being a politician he is still a populist and all that... If Obama was just a regular poster on NSG, nobody would take much notice of him, but since he is a politician, you shift all the scales to the right a bit to accommodate for his reptilian predisposition, and you see that America is much better off having that lizard man in charge rather than the other potential lizard men.

You know the thing about Jon Stewart? What I respect about him? That he's the first person to admit that he's not a political pundit, he's not an analyst, he's not a politician.

He's a comedian.

And taking your cues from someone whose job it is, is to make fun of things is probably not a good idea.

But in his comedy, he speaks the truth, and you can't deny that there's truth in what I quoted.



Off the top of my head? Bathrooms.

Women don't have Urinals.

On a more serious note, while I don't' support "separate but equal" I support it more than "not equal at all"

Me, I'm tired of the pussy footing around on the who gay marriage issues. I swear, wives of politicians must have the politician balls in their purse. They know what they should do, have to do, in order to best serve the public, and yet they won't do it because they're afraid of pissing off some bigoted rednecks who'll always find something to complain about.

They complain about the blacks, the gays, the Hispanics. Trust me, if they legislate gay marriage, the rednecks will be in a hissy fit, but soon they'll find something else to hate and it'll be fine.

If the churches don't want to marry Gays, that's fine, they don't have to. However, there are churches and other religious organizations who'd be more than happy to marry gays.

I swear, wives of politicians must have the politician balls in their purse. They know what they should do, have to do, in order to best serve the public, and yet they won't do it because they're afraid of pissing off some bigoted rednecks who'll always find something to complain about.

Wtf do their wives have to do with this?

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!
Ugh, no. Brainless beauty queens we don't need.

Wtf do their wives have to do with this?

Gotta keep the balls somewhere since they obviously aren't using them.

He is for massive bail-outs.

And this is bad because .....??

He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

Bogus. As your own attempt at "proof" shows.

He is against same-sex marriage.

Sort of. He opposed Prop. 8 in California and is for strong civil unions. It is unfortunate he won't publicly take the next step, but this places him in the better end of the U.S. spectrum on this issue.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

He is for withdrawing from Iraq in a orderly manner.

WTF is wrong with fighting Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan?

It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

1. No, it isn't true that someone with Obama's views on these issues would be "greatly disliked."

2. Obama's vision is not defined merely by a handful of wedge issues.

3. Obama lives in reality world, not the intertubes.

EDIT: A better question is why are there so many who clearly hate and fear Obama, when he hasn't even taken office yet?

The black ones?

Sometimes. You know what I wonder? Since Democrats tend to get the heavy majority of the african-american vote, I wonder if anybody ever took a look to see how many black republicans voted for McCain as compared to how many voted for Bush on 2004. I bet that would be an interesting comparison.

LG, please. This poster ought to live under a bridge, etc.

Sometimes I like to watch them twitch. :)

EDIT: A better question is why are there so many who clearly hate and fear Obama, when he hasn't even taken office yet?

Why are there so many who love him when he hasn't even taken office yet?

1. No, it isn't true that someone with Obama's views on these issues would be "greatly disliked."


But, generally people on NSG who are against gay marriages but for civil unions tend to be labelled as bigots and are not particularly respected. In debates, people usually respond to them with lots of vitriol.

I wonder if anybody ever took a look to see how many black republicans voted for McCain as compared to how many voted for Bush on 2004. I bet that would be an interesting comparison.

It'll be out there somewhere. It'd be fascinating to see.

Why are there so many who love him when he hasn't even taken office yet?

1. Because we know he will be a vast improvement over Bush.

2. Because in selecting his cabinet, etc., he has already shown good leadership.

3. We have hope.

1. Because we know he will be a vast improvement over Bush.
No, we don't. We hope that will be the case. These are shitty times we're in.

1. Because we know he will be a vast improvement over Bush.

McCain would've been an improvement on Bush.

3. We have hope.

So do I. I want him to be outstanding.

But, generally people on NSG who are against gay marriages but for civil unions tend to be labelled as bigots and are not particularly respected. In debates, people usually respond to them with lots of vitriol.

Again, thats because this is a series of tubes. You dont have to take the less extreme issue to get elected. On the internet, it doesnt matter what your stance is, it cant destroy your career. In reality it can. So you have to take the less extreme one.

1. Because we know he will be a vast improvement over Bush.

2. Because in selecting his cabinet, etc., he has already shown good leadership.

3. We have hope.

Here's Hope For Ya (http://www.foxbaltimore.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wbff_vid_1847.shtml)

Again, thats because this is a series of tubes. You dont have to take the less extreme issue to get elected. On the internet, it doesnt matter what your stance is, it cant destroy your career. In reality it can. So you have to take the less extreme one.

Agreed, which is essentially what I said in my post before that.

Here's Hope For Ya (http://www.foxbaltimore.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wbff_vid_1847.shtml)

Still parading that one link around thinking it proves that everyone who supports Obama is irrational, huh DK?

But, generally people on NSG who are against gay marriages but for civil unions tend to be labelled as bigots and are not particularly respected. In debates, people usually respond to them with lots of vitriol.

1. How many posters do you know that oppose Prop. 8, support fully equal civil unions, and support allowing states to decide to allow gay marriage (and otherwise fully support LGBT issues) have been labelled bigots in these forums? By my memory, not so many.

2. So your position is that because Obama is not as "pure" as some of us would like on one single issue, it is nonsensical to like him for 99% of his views?

Fantastic. So same question to you, when did Separate but Equal actually worked?

It doesn't. It does, however, work much, much better than "separate but completely unequal." In the real world, most people find it's better to compromise and get most of what one wants than to stand on principle and get nothing, especially when compromising in no way means you can't keep working toward the resolution you really want.

Still parading that one link around thinking it proves that everyone who supports Obama is irrational, huh DK?

I didn't say everyone.

When I said the other day that there are people who think like this, I was told "Bullshit, they don't exist. No one could be that fucking stupid."

Well, they do exist. And some of them are elected Democratic officials.

Got it?

It doesn't. It does, however, work much, much better than "separate but completely unequal." In the real world, most people find it's better to compromise and get most of what one wants than to stand on principle and get nothing, especially when compromising in no way means you can't keep working toward the resolution you really want.

I just believe that the gays and lesbians should have marriage. Civil Unions just sound like something politicians made up to keep the gay community quiet, and to appease the bigoted idiots.

PUSSY FOOTING AROUND DOESN'T WORK! >.<

Palin for prez thats a scary thought. See there's the problem with your two party system which you call 'democracy' you only have two unappealing options and your forced to choose.

But thats not all... once you do your obligated to support your choice and then *have only one of two opinions* on any number of issues. It's a prefect example of the dialectic game being used to control your little minds...

Ok ill admit palin isnt exactly president material. But find me a free party member with the same views as me and i will gladly support them. Ive found that my views are best displayed by the republican party; however, i do see the flaws in the system as well as in my party. The biggest flaw is the one that I am displaying when i wrote PALIN2012. I dont think Palin would run very well, but she suits me and my views a lot better than Obama does and therefore our system is implying the lesser of 2 evils and not a free choice to the "perfect" representative. But there is no such thing as True Democracy. There will always be corruption of power and abuse of the system and most of all choices that we do not want to make, but we do anyway. There is already talk of making Palin the top choice for the Republican party in 4 years and when that time comes i will support her in full. I would much rather see a more experienced politician, but if its Palin, then unless a free party can represent me better, i already know my vote.

I just believe that the gays and lesbians should have marriage. Civil Unions just sound like something politicians made up to keep the gay community quiet, and to appease the bigoted idiots.

PUSSY FOOTING AROUND DOESN'T WORK! >.<

Actually, it does. Nothing will happen if the guys who will give gays equal rights dont get elected.

1. How many posters do you know that oppose Prop. 8, support fully equal civil unions, and support allowing states to decide to allow gay marriage (and otherwise fully support LGBT issues) have been labelled bigots in these forums? By my memory, not so many.


I'm not referring specifically to prop 8 debates, but in debates in general, those for gay marriage tend to respond with much vitriol to people who support civil unions but not gay marriage, I think I remember them being called 'closet bigots' once.


2. So your position is that because Obama is not as "pure" as some of us would like on one single issue, it is nonsensical to like him for 99% of his views?

Eh?

I didn't say everyone.

When I said the other day that there are people who think like this, I was told "Bullshit, they don't exist. No one could be that fucking stupid."

Well, they do exist. And some of them are elected Democratic officials.

Got it?

Burning the fuck out that strawman with one state legislator's out of context misstatement.

Impressive. :rolleyes:

Burning the fuck out that strawman with one state legislator's out of context misstatement.

Impressive. :rolleyes:

I believe the word youre looking for is "predictable".

Ok ill admit palin isnt exactly president material. But find me a free party member with the same views as me and i will gladly support them. Ive found that my views are best displayed by the republican party; however, i do see the flaws in the system as well as in my party. The biggest flaw is the one that I am displaying when i wrote PALIN2012. I dont think Palin would run very well, but she suits me and my views a lot better than Obama does and therefore our system is implying the lesser of 2 evils and not a free choice to the "perfect" representative. But there is no such thing as True Democracy. There will always be corruption of power and abuse of the system and most of all choices that we do not want to make, but we do anyway. There is already talk of making Palin the top choice for the Republican party in 4 years and when that time comes i will support her in full. I would much rather see a more experienced politician, but if its Palin, then unless a free party can represent me better, i already know my vote.

That would be a good plan and all if Palin didn't scare the shit out of the centre.

There is already talk of making Palin the top choice for the Republican party in 4 years

Palin cost McCain the election, and she's a retarded bitch. I bet most decent Republicans won't want her running in 2012.

I'm not referring specifically to prop 8 debates, but in debates in general, those for gay marriage tend to respond with much vitriol to people who support civil unions but not gay marriage, I think I remember them being called 'closet bigots' once.


Depends entirely on the context of what they are saying and why they are saying it.

That said, I am deeply disappointed with Obama on this issue, but it is outweighed by his positive views on other issues.

Like the economy, the wars .... you know, the minor stuff. :wink:

That said, I am deeply disappointed with Obama on this issue, but it is outweighed by his positive views on other issues.


Agreed.

I think he is more of a Centrist than a pure Liberal. A whatever work kind of guy.

By European standards, Obama is pretty far right. Even by US standards, he's maybe centrist.

The sad thing is, to some, this is considered 'too far left' and a 'bad thing'.

How can finding middleground in which to be bi-partisan be bad?

Its the new fashion.
Like...i dont know, the financial crisis and the 2012 hysteria.

And this is bad because .....??

We cannot afford it.


Bogus. As your own attempt at "proof" shows.

No, he fully supports Israel's actions.



Sort of. He opposed Prop. 8 in California and is for strong civil unions. It is unfortunate he won't publicly take the next step, but this places him in the better end of the U.S. spectrum on this issue.

He is gutless; it is one thing to be against same-sex marriage for votes, but once one is elected and one keeps opposing it, one is lacking courage.



He is for withdrawing from Iraq in a orderly manner.

Peace with honor?

WTF is wrong with fighting Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan?

It is waste of money and life.



1. No, it isn't true that someone with Obama's views on these issues would be "greatly disliked."

Yes it is.

2. Obama's vision is not defined merely by a handful of wedge issues.

But his obtuseness is.

3. Obama lives in reality world, not the intertubes.

So?

EDIT: A better question is why are there so many who clearly hate and fear Obama, when he hasn't even taken office yet?

Why do so many love him?

EDIT: A better question is why are there so many who clearly hate and fear Obama, when he hasn't even taken office yet?

To be fair, we were afraid of Bush II before he took office, and look how much we underestimated how bad he would be...

But in his comedy, he speaks the truth, and you can't deny that there's truth in what I quoted.

I do not look for truth is comedy. I don't suggest you do either. But of all people here, I'm not surprised you do.


Women don't have Urinals.

So? Bathrooms are there to serve a purpose. Are you arguing that women's bathrooms do not serve their purpose as well as men's bathrooms?

Me, I'm tired of the pussy footing around on the who gay marriage issues. I swear, wives of politicians must have the politician balls in their purse. They know what they should do, have to do, in order to best serve the public, and yet they won't do it because they're afraid of pissing off some bigoted rednecks who'll always find something to complain about.

They complain about the blacks, the gays, the Hispanics. Trust me, if they legislate gay marriage, the rednecks will be in a hissy fit, but soon they'll find something else to hate and it'll be fine.

What a pointless little rant.

If the churches don't want to marry Gays, that's fine, they don't have to. However, there are churches and other religious organizations who'd be more than happy to marry gays.

Wait, are you under the impression that those churces currently can't perform gay weddings?

We cannot afford it.



No, he fully supports Israel's actions.





He is gutless; it is one thing to be against same-sex marriage for votes, but once one is elected and one keeps opposing it, one is lacking courage.





Peace with honor?



It is waste of money and life.





Yes it is.


But his obtuseness is.


So?



Why do so many love him?

If you plan on ignoring real evidence and arguements in favor of your inane one-liners, just admit it.

By European standards, Obama is pretty far right. Even by US standards, he's maybe centrist.


Eh, I wouldn't say far right. People greatly over-estimate how far left the centre in European politics is.

By European standards, Obama is pretty far right. Even by US standards, he's maybe centrist.

The sad thing is, to some, this is considered 'too far left' and a 'bad thing'.

How can finding middleground in which to be bi-partisan be bad?

Because he has to lie through his teeth to be bipartisan.

By European standards, Obama is pretty far right. Even by US standards, he's maybe centrist.

The sad thing is, to some, this is considered 'too far left' and a 'bad thing'.

How can finding middleground in which to be bi-partisan be bad?
Because the Messiah, GW, and his rock, John McCain, were crucified.

If you plan on ignoring real evidence and arguements in favor of your inane one-liners, just admit it.

"No, he fully supports Israel's actions."

What is wrong with this statement?

To be fair, we were afraid of Bush II before he took office, and look how much we underestimated how bad he would be...

Yep. My point is being misunderstood. I am not saying it is irrational to have an opinion about Obama at this point. To the contrary, there are as good as if not better reasons for having hope for his Administration that there are for fear and loathing.

Why is only the former being treated as irrational by the OP?

To be fair, we were afraid of Bush II before he took office, and look how much we underestimated how bad he would be...
Misunderestimated, remember.

Eh, I wouldn't say far right. People greatly over-estimate how far left the centre in European politics is.

As someone who has spent more than a quarter of a century within the European political globe, and a decade within the American political globe, I stand by it - US politics makes Tories blush for their 'liberal' underpinnings.

Why do so many love him?Because we feel like it. The American public is generally fickle. Did you expect something else?

"No, he fully supports Israel's actions."

What is wrong with this statement?

Well, not only does he not say that, but its you moving the goal posts. Remember what you claimed he said in your OP?
He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.


Now that thats been demonstrated to be a big steaming pile of bullshit, youve changed arguements it seems.

Because he has to lie through his teeth to be bipartisan.

No, he doesn't. He has to compromise to be bipartisan. I'm still failing to see how that is a bad thing.

As someone who has spent more than a quarter of a century within the European political globe, and a decade within the American political globe, I stand by it - US politics makes Tories blush for their 'liberal' underpinnings.

Well, I would consider far right in European terms to be something like Thatcher, and Obama is no Thatcher.

He is for massive bail-outs.

He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

He is against same-sex marriage.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

A couple of points.

1) You have to bear in mind that NSG is not American politics... and many of the posters here are not American.

2) Your 'blowing up neighbourhoods' bullshit is bullshit. But you knew that.

3) Obama has set his line in the sand somewhere on the side of civil unions rather than gay marriage. While this is regretable, it's not too unexpected - the Democratic party is not as leftwing as some would have you believe, and a full on 'gay marriage' line wouldn't be all that popular even within his own party.

4) This matters because Obama is a politician, whereas, most of us are commentators. We hold our politicians to different standards.

5) We are withdrawing from Iraq. Not as fast as some of us would like, but it's actually on target. The real proof will be when it is finished. At least the incoming regime is talking about it, rather than opposing it.

6) Withdrawing from Afghanistan isn't as important as withdrawing from Iraq. At least there was good reason to be there.

7) I have to say, I vastly prefer Obama over W. Bush. I'm not a Democrat, and I consider pretty much ALL American politics to be way too conservative. For me, Obama is a step in the right direction, whilst falling short of what I would LIKE to see. But, I'm a realist. I'll take a step in the right direction over a lurch in the wrong direction, any day.

Well, not only does he not say that, but its you moving the goal posts. Remember what you claimed he said in your OP?


Now that thats been demonstrated to be a big steaming pile of bullshit, youve changed arguements it seems.

Israel did exactly that: persons were firing rockets at them and Israel destroyed neighborhoods in retaliation; Obama clearly supported Israel's response, comparing the state to his family, claiming that "everything in my (Israel's) power" is justified to stop the rockets being fired.

Well, I would consider far right in European terms to be something like Thatcher, and Obama is no Thatcher.

Thatcher pushed for removal of regulation on business, and for restriction on Unions. Both of those factors are already basically the status quo in the US. She cut expenditure on social concerns... again, the status quo in the US. She opposed budget growth - not only the status quo, but an actual policy point of Obama's campaing. She argued for 'moral' politics, a nationalist direction, personal responsibility... all staples of both US parties, in real terms.

And that's the thing - Thatcher is rightwing, for the UK, and for Europe... and yet she's heading in the DIRECTION of the US centre...

Israel did exactly that: persons were firing rockets at them and Israel destroyed neighborhoods in retaliation; Obama clearly supported Israel's response, comparing the state to his family, claiming that "everything in my (Israel's) power" is justified to stop the rockets being fired.

If you really think thats whats being said, I cant help you, and we're done here. I grow weary of talking to brick walls who are convinced that Obama is "teh ebil". They cant really listen to reason.

If you really think thats whats being said, I cant help you, and we're done here. I grow weary of talking to brick walls who are convinced that Obama is "teh ebil". They cant really listen to reason.

Are you saying Obama does not support Israel's actions or that Israel's actions are not what I claimed they were?

Israel did exactly that: persons were firing rockets at them and Israel destroyed neighborhoods in retaliation; Obama clearly supported Israel's response, comparing the state to his family, claiming that "everything in my (Israel's) power" is justified to stop the rockets being fired..
I brought this up earlier, but I'll repeat it here because I'd really like to know:

As I said, Israel is one of the US's "hot buttons" where politicians must appear to take the politically required public stance in the media regardless of what actual policies are being pursued in closed door meetings with the involved parties. Therefore, it is not to be expected that a politician's public comments about such hot button issues really reflect what his/her policy on the issue is. This is why there is no US politician who will get in front of a camera and seriously criticize, much less condemn Israel's actions, but this in no way tell us anything about what is being done away from the cameras, in dealings with the Israelis themselves.

When I first said that I wondered why you, a self-proclaimed realist when it comes to politics and the machinations of power, failed to figure that out in regards to Obama's remarks about Israel.

And now I'm asking you point blank: Does your insistence on criticizing him for his Israel remarks mean that you are abandoning your stance as a realist who understands how power works and choosing, instead, to jump on the cockeyed idealist bandwagon?

NSG is very liberal?

I brought this up earlier, but I'll repeat it here because I'd really like to know:

As I said, Israel is one of the US's "hot buttons" where politicians must appear to take the politically required public stance in the media regardless of what actual policies are being pursued in closed door meetings with the involved parties. Therefore, it is not to be expected that a politician's public comments about such hot button issues really reflect what his/her policy on the issue is. This is why there is no US politician who will get in front of a camera and seriously criticize, much less condemn Israel's actions, but this in no way tell us anything about what is being done away from the cameras, in dealings with the Israelis themselves.

But he is already elected; why is he still pandering the masses?

When I first said that I wondered why you, a self-proclaimed realist when it comes to politics and the machinations of power, failed to figure that out in regards to Obama's remarks about Israel.

And now I'm asking you point blank: Does your insistence on criticizing him for his Israel remarks mean that you are abandoning your stance as a realist who understands how power works and choosing, instead, to jump onn the cockeyed idealist bandwagon?

If I were an idealist, I would support Obama. I support realists like Dick Nixon and Bill Clinton; and Carter was okay, despite the fact that he was sickeningly idealistic.

But he is already elected; why is he still pandering the masses?
He's not pandering to the masses. He's pandering to the Congress for political purposes and to the Israelis for diplomatic purposes, and he's keeping the media off his back by fobbing them off with the standard empty comments, which are less dangerous for a politician than no comment at all.

Why do I have to tell you this?

If I were an idealist, I would support Obama. I support realists like Dick Nixon
How much of a realist can a paranoid be, I wonder? *muses* Quite a lot, I suppose... *muses* ... provided he really is as unpopular as he thinks he is.

and Bill Clinton;
Yes, Bill Clinton is a realist, and you are not the only one who supported him.

and Carter was okay, despite the fact that he was sickeningly idealistic.
But if you would put Carter on your list of realists, in the same breath that you denounce him for being an idealist, I wonder if you really understand these terms.

Never been to a women's bathroom with urinals.
i have.

maybe you dont frequent as many women's rooms as i do.

Thatcher pushed for removal of regulation on business, and for restriction on Unions. Both of those factors are already basically the status quo in the US.

Not really, Reagenomics were certainly not the status quo prior to Reagan himself. The main reason that Thatcher and Reagan were both labelled right wing economically, is because of their Friedman influenced restatement of Fisher's classical approach to the economy ("Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon") which was kind of a backlash against the more Keynesian approach that was dominating at the time.

She opposed budget growth - not only the status quo, but an actual policy point of Obama's campaing.

That is neither left nor right wing, that is neutral.


She argued for 'moral' politics, a nationalist direction, personal responsibility... all staples of both US parties, in real terms.


Yes, but this rhetoric in itself is again neutral and can be twisted to mean a lot of things. It's how you put it into practice that counts. Regardless, I don't think that the status quo in government necessarily defines the actual centre. You talk about economic left and right, but Raegan was considered to be much more right wing than his predecessor, and yet was identical to Thatcher economically.

To be fair, we were afraid of Bush II before he took office, and look how much we underestimated how bad he would be...
i was not as afraid as i should have been.

i have.


Wait, what?

Women don't have Urinals.



yes they do :) http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/festivalvulture/2007/06/24/spotted_at_glastonbury_the_she.html

I'm surprised people are surprised! women's urinals have been around for a couple hundred years.

But he is already elected; why is he still pandering the masses?



If I were an idealist, I would support Obama. I support realists like Dick Nixon and Bill Clinton; and Carter was okay, despite the fact that he was sickeningly idealistic.

For a realist, I have to say, you sure ignore a lot of the facts.

He's not pandering to the masses. He's pandering to the Congress for political purposes and to the Israelis for diplomatic purposes, and he's keeping the media off his back by fobbing them off with the standard empty comments, which are less dangerous for a politician than no comment at all.

I think the media would support a statement against mass-bombing.



How much of a realist can a paranoid be, I wonder?

In politics?

*muses* Quite a lot, I suppose... *muses* ... provided he really is as unpopular as he thinks he is.

I am talking about actions: as far as national relations go, Nixon flunked. Then again, I would prefer someone who flunked on relations to someone who flunked on policy.


Yes, Bill Clinton is a realist, and you are not the only one who supported him.

And is markedly different from Obama.


But if you would put Carter on your list of realists, in the same breath that you denounce him for being an idealist, I wonder if you really understand these terms.

I was simply saying that Carter is impugned far more than he should be. He still did many dreadful and naïve things, but his accomplishments are not generally noted.

For a realist, I have to say, you sure ignore a lot of the facts.

Like?

And is markedly different from Obama.



How? Similar ideology, similar policies, and they are surrounding themselves with the same people.
Like?

See this whole thread. Everyone has demonstrated this to you. That you ignore it in favor of your "realism" is no fault of mine.

How? Similar ideology, similar policies, and they are surrounding themselves with the same people.

For one thing he spent less than Obama is planning to.

For one thing he spent less than Obama is planning to.

Their situations are exactly the same, so since they are not doing EXACTLY THE SAME THING, this of course means they are not the same at all!!!!!

Why do some people see everything in black-and-white, raw-emotion? Apparently if I criticize Bush I'm a "Bush Hater," now if I support Obama I "love Obama."

I think its cuz TPE views politicians and makes decisions based on knee-jerk emotional responses and cannot comprehend the fact that not everyone else does the same.

Are you saying Obama does not support Israel's actions or that Israel's actions are not what I claimed they were?

US President-elect Barack Obama, meanwhile, broke his silence about the conflict, telling reporters that "the loss of civilian life in Gaza and Israel is a source of deep concern for me".

However, he also reiterated his principle that only President George W Bush would speak for US foreign policy at this time.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7814054.stm

Obama is still not the President... We'll see.

It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

I do not consider Obama a visionary, on the contrary: I consider him a centrist.
I guess that people like Obama so much, here on NSG too, because after eight years of the suckiest US presidency as far as most living people can remember, well, whatever change is welcome and inspiring.

Why do some people see everything in black-and-white, raw-emotion? Apparently if I criticize Bush I'm a "Bush Hater," now if I support Obama I "love Obama."

I think its cuz TPE views politicians and makes decisions based on knee-jerk emotional responses and cannot comprehend the fact that not everyone else does the same.

Quiet. Because I find ideological common ground with Obama, this clearly means I want t swallow his man gravy.

Wait, what?
yeah

they arent as useful as their designers thought they would be.

I think the media would support a statement against mass-bombing.
I see, so your plan to carry this point is to ignore the entire history of US politics and replace it with some vague, off-hand thing that you think. Mm-hmm. Let me know how that works out for you.



And is markedly different from Obama.


How do you know?

Or is that another thing that you think -- and that you think we should agree with on the basis of nothing but the fact that you thought it recently?

I see, so your plan to carry this point is to ignore the entire history of US politics and replace it with some vague, off-hand thing that you think. Mm-hmm. Let me know how that works out for you.



How do you know?

Or is that another thing that you think -- and that you think we should agree with on the basis of nothing but the fact that you thought it recently?

He is a realist. Therefore everything he thinks is "real".

But what do I know? I want Obama to sodomize me while I drink the kool-aid, both literally and metaphorically.

Women don't need urinals. We can actually manage to get our piss inside a proper toilet. Neo Art's point stands. Like guys in bathrooms. :p

Nah, you just hate the thought of conserving water. All women as closet right-wingers who support lack of government intervention!:tongue:

whats not to love about obama?

i think he is going to do a good job as president.

my sister has already started tearing up when listening to his whistle-stop speeches. we cant wait to turn the page on george bush and get to the fixing of what has gone wrong.

Ugh, no. Brainless beauty queens we don't need.

I don't get this, I thought there was a reason she called herself a pitbull in lipstick, and that's because she resembles one.

He is a realist. Therefore everything he thinks is "real".

But what do I know? I want Obama to sodomize me while I drink the kool-aid, both literally and metaphorically.
I know, here we are, we crazy liberals, getting our freak on for the new pres but totally ignoring the reality of what PE thinks might be the case. One hardly knows what to make of that. ;)

He is a realist. Therefore everything he thinks is "real".

You have yet to properly answer my question concerning Israel's actions and Obama's support of the actions; you just call me ignorant but never directly answer: do you think Obama is right to support Israel's attacks, or do you, like Muravyets, think that he does not feel morally right about supporting them, but does it anyway to gain popularity?

But what do I know? I want Obama to sodomize me while I drink the kool-aid, both literally and metaphorically.

Well, I suppose a true idealist would want a more delectable beverage than "Kool-Aid" to accompany his activities.

I know, here we are, we crazy liberals, getting our freak on for the new pres but totally ignoring the reality of what PE thinks might be the case. One hardly knows what to make of that. ;)

You argue so eloquently I am reminded of the libertarians who posted on the first page.

You have yet to properly answer my question concerning Israel's actions and Obama's support of the actions; you just call me ignorant but never directly answer: do you think Obama is right to support Israel's attacks, or do you, like Muravyets, think that he does not feel morally right about supporting them, but does it anyway to gain popularity?

I did not say he did it to gain popularity. I said he did it for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily.

Seriously, PE, this is Politics 101. If you can't wrap your brain around this, I'm never going to take you seriously as a scholar of Machiavelli ever again, not even to the extent I ever did.

EDIT: By the way, I also never said anything about how he feels morally in regard to Israel. What I said was that public statements along the lines of "Israel has a right to defend itself" are just default statements for the cameras and do not tell us what is really being done or going to be done in regard to Israel. Misrepresenting the entirety of my statements is not a good sign for you.

Look, I gave our Cowboy Pres a good 2 to 3 years before I decided he was stupidity incarnate...

The least I can do is give our Superhero Pres the same courtesy...

I think they wanted to paint her as tenacious and unwilling to let loose once she got into a situation. But she WAS a beauty queen.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4636745.ece
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Palin

Why do some people see everything in black-and-white, raw-emotion? Apparently if I criticize Bush I'm a "Bush Hater," now if I support Obama I "love Obama."

I think its cuz TPE views politicians and makes decisions based on knee-jerk emotional responses and cannot comprehend the fact that not everyone else does the same.

Perspective is for pussies.

Hate to break it to ya, but we have every right to hate him for his views. Just because He is black doesnt mean he get automatic love from everyone. I am personally a far right conservative and dislike a lot of things about obama. My political views are far from based on race. Anyone who calls me racist for this comment is cynical and obviously a bullheaded freak. PALIN 2012!

I can assume that you're retarded for thinking that Palin is qualified to run anything more important than the local Wal-Mart.

I can assume that you're retarded for thinking that Palin is qualified to run anything more important than the local Wal-Mart.

Your willing to let her run a Walmart :eek:

I shudder to think something like that would befall my Groceries...:eek2:

Not really, Reagenomics were certainly not the status quo prior to Reagan himself...

Which leaves me wondering which part of 'are' it is that confuses you.

I don't get this, I thought there was a reason she called herself a pitbull in lipstick, and that's because she resembles one.

I'd still hit it, though. With earplugs on.

Your willing to let her run a Walmart :eek:

I shudder to think something like that would befall my Groceries...:eek2:

Well, at that point I'd probably start shopping at the one across town, but yes I'd let her hire the old greeters and such.

I'd still hit it, though. With earplugs on.


If by hit it you mean give her/it a well deseverd spanking then yeah - I'd do that. I'll go get my paddle.

I did not say he did it to gain popularity. I said he did it for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily.

Seriously, PE, this is Politics 101. If you can't wrap your brain around this, I'm never going to take you seriously as a scholar of Machiavelli ever again, not even to the extent I ever did.

EDIT: By the way, I also never said anything about how he feels morally in regard to Israel. What I said was that public statements along the lines of "Israel has a right to defend itself" are just default statements for the cameras and do not tell us what is really being done or going to be done in regard to Israel. Misrepresenting the entirety of my statements is not a good sign for you.

So if Obama says things simply:

"for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily."

...Why would anyone feel optimistic about him? We do not even how how he feels or how he acts.

Which leaves me wondering which part of 'are' it is that confuses you.

Oh, I read the 'are' as 'were' for some reason. Regardless, I still see very little in common with Obama and Thatcher.

So if Obama says things simply:

"for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily."

...Why would anyone feel optimistic about him? We do not even how how he feels or how he acts.

Don't be nonsensical. Obama said he wants bipartisan movement - that's hardly new, surprising or secret. I'm wondering why you're trying to make out that it is?

Does that mean some compromise? Sure - which is a good thing... some compromise in the last 8 years would have been better for America.

That, on it's own, is a good reason for optimism.

Again - I can't work out what you think the problem is supposed to be.

their both men?

Oh, I read the 'are' as 'were' for some reason. Regardless, I still see very little in common with Obama and Thatcher.

I was talking about American politics as it is now.

You invoked Thatcher then, as a comparison.

Thatcher THEN, (our reference for rightwing by European standards) was somewhere close to centrist for American politics NOW. Which means a 'liberal' politician like Obama (according to the American model) is close to comparable with European rightwing. Centrist, at best... remember, you were citing Thatcher as an example of our Euro right extreme.

So if Obama says things simply:

"for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily."

...Why would anyone feel optimistic about him? We do not even how how he feels or how he acts.
youll find out starting tomorrow afternoon.

until then there is no reason not to feel good that we are at least wiping the dog shit that is the bush administration off the bottom of our shoes.

I was talking about American politics as it is now.

You invoked Thatcher then, as a comparison.

Thatcher THEN, (our reference for rightwing by European standards) was somewhere close to centrist for American politics NOW.

Now hold on, I don't think anybody considers the republicans 'centrist', not even the republicans themselves. They are both right wing in the US and in Europe.

Which means a 'liberal' politician like Obama (according to the American model) is close to comparable with European rightwing. Centrist, at best... remember, you were citing Thatcher as an example of our Euro right extreme.

I was citing her as 'quite far right', which you originally described Obama as. Extreme right wing is essentially fascism in European terms, like Mussolini and all that.

So if Obama says things simply:

"for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily."

...Why would anyone feel optimistic about him? We do not even how how he feels or how he acts.

Yeah, it's not like we haven't had 16 months or so of intense media scrutiny and political campaigning in which to learn about him. (Or like he had written any books about his views or anything.)

Oh, wait ...

Maybe we know more about how Obama feels and acts than we do about many people we know personally!! :eek:

EDIT: Obama is a politician. A very good one. Not a messiah or candidate for sainthood. Get over it already.

Don't be nonsensical. Obama said he wants bipartisan movement - that's hardly new, surprising or secret. I'm wondering why you're trying to make out that it is?

Does that mean some compromise? Sure - which is a good thing... some compromise in the last 8 years would have been better for America.

That, on it's own, is a good reason for optimism.

Again - I can't work out what you think the problem is supposed to be.

It is one thing to promote compromise; it is another to change your opinion to agree with the opposition.

Yeah, it's not like we haven't had 16 months or so of intense media scrutiny and political campaigning in which to learn about him. (Or like he had written any books about his views or anything.)

Oh, wait ...

Maybe we know more about how Obama feels and acts than we do about many people we know personally!! :eek:

Yes, and if what I know about him is true, it is not good.

EDIT: Obama is a politician. A very good one.

Alright, so he is incredible when it comes to getting votes.

Not a messiah or candidate for sainthood. Get over it already.

He is not any "great shakes" at all.

Yes, and if what I know about him is true, it is not good.


lol

Yeah, it's not like we haven't had 16 months or so of intense media scrutiny and political campaigning in which to learn about him. (Or like he had written any books about his views or anything.)

Oh, wait ...

Maybe we know more about how Obama feels and acts than we do about many people we know personally!! :eek:

EDIT: Obama is a politician. A very good one. Not a messiah or candidate for sainthood. Get over it already.

You're in for a big surprise. As soon as he gets the swearing in, the launch codes, and the One Ring, we will see his true colors.

He's going to nationalize the banks, recall the military to enforce his civil edicts, institute unilateral gun confiscation, and buy a cat, not a dog.

Yes, and if what I know about him is true, it is not good.



Alright, so he is incredible when it comes to getting votes.



He is not any "great shakes" at all.

*sigh*

Forgive me for liking a politician who happens to be a constitutional scholar and with whom I agree on the vast majority of issues -- including the economy, the wars, education policy, environmental policy, energy policy, etc....

Anyone that doesn't side with Hamas is clearly not fit to govern. :rolleyes:

Yes, and if what I know about him is true, it is not good.

For the sake of humanity, you must tell us.

What is the worst thing you know about him?

Yeah, it's not like we haven't had 16 months or so of intense media scrutiny and political campaigning in which to learn about him. (Or like he had written any books about his views or anything.)

Oh, wait ...

Maybe we know more about how Obama feels and acts than we do about many people we know personally!! :eek:

EDIT: Obama is a politician. A very good one. Not a messiah or candidate for sainthood. Get over it already.

And in 16 months what have you learned? Change bla bla bla Change bla bla Hope bla bla Change bla Hope. If you look a little deeper into it Obama is just as scary as any of the other Lizard-Men which your Anunaki overlords have picked out for you. IMHO he's scarier than bush because he'll unite all you crazy yanky nut-bars behind some common-purpose like lenin did during the communist revolution. ...but I dont want to be too vocal in my criticiznims of your new great leader. Their watching me you know...

It is one thing to promote compromise; it is another to change your opinion to agree with the opposition.

Who said anything about opinion? Obama has already modified his approach to several policies, but policy implies what you are willing or wanting to DO... not necessarily your belief. Don't mistake position for opinion. And don't mistake concessions for ideals.

It's politics. Sometimes, if you want something done, you have to modify your position on something else. That's not a poition of weakness.

Who said anything about opinion? Obama has already modified his approach to several policies, but policy implies what you are willing or wanting to DO... not necessarily your belief. Don't mistake position for opinion. And don't mistake concessions for ideals.

It's politics. Sometimes, if you want something done, you have to modify your position on something else. That's not a poition of weakness.

You'd think a "realist" that claims to admire Nixon would understand the idea of politics.

He's going to nationalize the banks, recall the military to enforce his civil edicts, institute unilateral gun confiscation, and buy a cat, not a dog.

Oh no I doubt that... That would be too good to be true :)

You'd think a "realist" that claims to admire Nixon would understand the idea of politics.

Speaking as an Objectivist, you are ignoring reality.

A leader is only good if he or she can instantly, utterly, and universally impose their personal opinion as policy on every issue.

Otherwise, we don't really know anything about them.

You'd think a "realist" that claims to admire Nixon would understand the idea of politics.

Maybe this is Bush's real legacy? A generation that sees anything less than strongarming as pandering?

Speaking as an Objectivist, you are ignoring reality.

A leader is only good if he or she can instantly, utterly, and universally impose their personal opinion as policy on every issue.


Stalin was a good leader?

So if Obama says things simply:

"for political purposes -- to prevent unnecessary conflict and obstruction with the Congress -- and for diplomatic purposes -- to make nice-noises towards the Israelis -- and to keep the media from pestering him unnecessarily."

...Why would anyone feel optimistic about him? We do not even how how he feels or how he acts.
What the fuck are you talking about?

Speaking as an Objectivist, you are ignoring reality.

A leader is only good if he or she can instantly, utterly, and universally impose their personal opinion as policy on every issue.

Otherwise, we don't really know anything about them.

BfC, is that you? ;)

He is for massive bail-outs.

He says he would blow-up whole neighborhoods if someone in them were firing rockets at him.

He is against same-sex marriage.

He is not withdrawing from Iraq or Afghanistan until he is forced to.

It seems to me that if a poster here held these opinions, then that poster would be greatly disliked, yet Obama is considered a "visionary"; why?

I do not know what NSG means.

Yes, because giving people money allows them to spend money allowing others to make money so the government gets money.

Because he's supporting the Israelis? Everyone does that because they're racist against Arabs and because we BAWWWWW about Hitler.

Personally yes, but he said it wouldn't reflect in his policy.

lol wut?

And people here are mostly super-liberal. I'd say none of them have the combination of intelligence, leadership, political savvy, and eloquence that Obama does.

Stalin was a good leader?

Stalin has not familiarized himself with my work, so no.

The point was, Obama is a politician who engages in politics, and thus we have no clear idea of who we've elected, apparently.

What the fuck are you talking about?

That it's ok that Obama doesn't have to say what he means becuase *it politics* and he's a democrat and he hasn't killed anyone *yet* and he's black - WTF are you racist?

BfC, is that you? ;)

No, I am the shade of the pre-eminent Russian American Philosopher, not some Boston fried chicken outfit.

You are all forgetting something about Obama. He's a complete wild card. We just don't know anything about this guy.

We need to find things out. Is he married? Is he a plumber, or something else? Does he know anything about government?

Aside from the fact that he's a Muslim from Kenya, what has really been established as true?

Let's at least get his credit score.

It is one thing to promote compromise; it is another to change your opinion to agree with the opposition.
Good thing he hasn't done that, then, eh?

Yes, and if what I know about him is true, it is not good.
I think your posts so far have shown pretty clearly that you don't know much about him at all.

Alright, so he is incredible when it comes to getting votes.
Except that. You do know that.

He is not any "great shakes" at all.
How do you know? You haven't seen him do anything yet, except get votes.

You'd think a "realist" that claims to admire Nixon would understand the idea of politics.
Yeah, one would think that, wouldn't one? Hm...what does this suggest...?

No, I am the shade of the pre-eminent Russian American Philosopher, not some Boston fried chicken outfit.

You are all forgetting something about Obama. He's a complete wild card. We just don't know anything about this guy.

We need to find things out. Is he married? Is he a plumber, or something else? Does he know anything about government?

Aside from the fact that he's a Muslim from Kenya, what has really been established as true?

Let's at least get his credit score.

Unfortunately, yes, he is married. There goes my plan to usher in real change by being the first male first lady.

I do not know what NSG means.



NSG = Nationstates General, i.e. this forum.

That it's ok that Obama doesn't have to say what he means becuase *it politics* and he's a democrat and he hasn't killed anyone *yet* and he's black - WTF are you racist?
Oh....I get it...

No, I am the shade of the pre-eminent Russian American Philosopher, not some Boston fried chicken outfit.

You are all forgetting something about Obama. He's a complete wild card. We just don't know anything about this guy.

We need to find things out. Is he married? Is he a plumber, or something else? Does he know anything about government?

Aside from the fact that he's a Muslim from Kenya, what has really been established as true?

Let's at least get his credit score.

I know this about Obama: The only credit card that he has in his wallet is for JC Penny. And he uses it everyday. I don't know what that does to one's credit score but it can't be good.

Unfortunately, yes, he is married. There goes my plan to usher in real change by being the first male first lady.

No, he was probably just said he was married to get votes. We don't know if he's REALLY married.

His kids look nothing like him or his wife. Seriously, think about it.

You can still be the first male first lady. It just won't happen for at least four years.

I know this about Obama: The only credit card that he has in his wallet is for JC Penny. And he uses it everyday. I don't know what that does to one's credit score but it can't be good.

Damn straight. I think its because the Quran forbids charging or paying interest.

I just wish Obama had attended debates, responded to questions, explained his platform with a website or something.

But he didn't.

Wonder why?

No, he was probably just said he was married to get votes. We don't know if he's REALLY married.

His kids look nothing like him or his wife. Seriously, think about it.

OMG: He doesnt look like his wife!!! Thats incredible!!!


You can still be the first male first lady. It just won't happen for at least four years.

Gonna be an interesting 4 years.

OMG: He doesnt look like his wife!!! Thats incredible!!!

Is she his wife? Have you seen a marriage certificate? Do you even know what a Kenyan marriage certificate looks like?

Damn straight. I think its because the Quran forbids charging or paying interest.


The bible also forbids usary.

19 " You shall not charge interest to your brother -- interest on money or food or anything that is lent out at interest.
20 "To a foreigner you may charge interest, but to your brother you shall not charge interest, that the LORD your God may bless you in all to which you set your hand in the land which you are entering to possess. (Deuteronomy 23:19,20)

Is she his wife? Have you seen a marriage certificate? Do you even know what a Kenyan marriage certificate looks like?

do you?

The bible also forbids usary.

Your quote says it forbids it only to brothers. He can charge The Man.

do you?

I'm not the one claiming Barack Obama is married.


See, this is my precise point. He's a mystery. Totally unknown. He could be Batman for all we know.

You remember Knightfall? Is that what you want in the White House?

Well Brothers here means any of your countrymen. So within a single country it should be outlawed.

Well Brothers here means any of your countrymen. So within a single country it should be outlawed.

Do foreigners shop at JC Penny?

Asians I guess...

Maybe if he pays it all off every month, it would be okay?

I didn't vote for him. I'm not allowed to - I'm Canadian. The media loves Obama which is reason enough not to but McCain was certainly no more of an attractive option.

I understand why people voted for him but I do not get why people *worship* him. It's sick and it's creepy.

I didn't vote for him. I'm not allowed to - I'm Canadian. The media loves Obama which is reason enough not to but McCain was certainly no more of an attractive option.

Jumping Jesus on a pogo-stick, leave that poor expired equine alone!!!

Jumping Jesus on a pogo-stick, leave that poor expired equine alone!!!

you mean pogo-cross

He could be Batman for all we know.

You remember Knightfall? Is that what you want in the White House?

Psh, we all know he's not Batman...Batman would never want a post as obvious as the Presidency.....He's much more of a Behind the Scenes kinda guy....


Obama is from Krypton, and enjoys the Spotlight...

http://www.artofobama.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/super-386x450.jpg

And therefore is obviously, Superman...

Obama is from Krypton, and enjoys the Spotlight...

http://www.artofobama.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/super-386x450.jpg

And therefore is obviously, Superman...

I see and thats why he doesnt look like his Wife.

I see and thats why he doesnt look like his Wife.

Like I said, his kids look like neither him nor his wife, thus proving its a sham marriage. They got those kids outside a Home Depot.

Like I said, his kids look like neither him nor his wife, thus proving its a sham marriage. They got those kids outside a Home Depot.

Would not the Nature of Sexual Reproduction necessitate that they obtain genes that may be descended from generations of people within their respective families....

What if they took after, say, Obama's mother's family? In which case, they would look like neither of them....

Would not the Nature of Sexual Reproduction necessitate that they obtain genes that may be descended from generations of people within their respective families....

What if they took after, say, Obama's mother's family? In which case, they would look like neither of them....

Jesus Christ people, Jesus Christ with a Dead Hooker in His Trunk, his kids look exactly like their parents.

One daughter looks painfully like her Dad and the other looks totally like her mom.

That's the joke. The joke is, they completely DO like them.

someone please kill me I'm afraid to do it myself

Jesus Christ people, Jesus Christ with a Dead Hooker in His Trunk, his kids look exactly like their parents.

One daughter looks painfully like her Dad and the other looks totally like her mom.

That's the joke. The joke is, they completely DO like them.

someone please kill me I'm afraid to do it myself


Poe's Law I guess....

Jesus Christ people, Jesus Christ with a Dead Hooker in His Trunk, his kids look exactly like their parents.

One daughter looks painfully like her Dad and the other looks totally like her mom.

That's the joke. The joke is, they completely DO like them.

someone please kill me I'm afraid to do it myself
I totally imagined Ayn Rand saying those words.

Visual aid:
http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p233/poliwanacraca/aynrandposter3.jpg

Jesus Christ people, Jesus Christ with a Dead Hooker in His Trunk, his kids look exactly like their parents.

One daughter looks painfully like her Dad and the other looks totally like her mom.

That's the joke. The joke is, they completely DO like them.

someone please kill me I'm afraid to do it myself

Ok. Will you come back as Hammurab II?

You have yet to properly answer my question concerning Israel's actions and Obama's support of the actions; you just call me ignorant but never directly answer:

I did answer. So have several other posters. He supports them defending themselves, but does not support their more aggressive actions involving blowing up civies.

The fact that you want to pretend we arent addressing your point and want to keep spouting your "realist" bullshit is not my issue. This is like almost every other debate you engage in. You ignore evidence in favor of your idea of "realism" which is really nothing but your own musings and half baked ideas that you try and play off as deep thought.

Once again, most of your original claims made in the OP are pure bullshit. If you cant see that, thats not my problem. I said it once and Ill say it again. Im done engaging in this debate with you and people like you. No amount of evidence will alay your fears about Obama bringing about the End Times. You wont be quiet until he institutes Sharia and recreates the economic system of the USSR, taking away all your guns in the process, and even then, Im sure youll still say he didnt even do that right.

or do you, like Muravyets, think that he does not feel morally right about supporting them, but does it anyway to gain popularity?

Mur didnt say that.

This.

You're not helping yourself out with the puppet theories, you know.

I don't love him. Satisfied? I voted for him as a distinct lesser of two evils, and I have a slight hope that he might not be as big a bastard as other Presidents. If that's love, the word has undergone a serious devaluation.

I don't love him. Satisfied? I voted for him as a distinct lesser of two evils, and I have a slight hope that he might not be as big a bastard as other Presidents. If that's love, the word has undergone a serious devaluation.

May I point you towards the Divorce and Domestic Violence rates? lol

This thread is cute, with all it's inaccuracies and such. ^_^
Yeah, you should visit more of these. :)

long distance psycoanalasys on the basis of public statements, is on a par with simular on the basis of works of fiction. the op reminds me of such analysis of hienline by people who think they knew him because the read one or two of his most popular published works.

the only thing not to love is that he's a politician. as the species goes, he's considerably more aesthetic then most.

(and isn't that about as much as we actually KNOW about ANYone in public office?)

I don't love him. Satisfied? I voted for him as a distinct lesser of two evils, and I have a slight hope that he might not be as big a bastard as other Presidents. If that's love, the word has undergone a serious devaluation.

Whoa, cut out on the reasonable opinions. Continue with such centrist views and you might be viewed as 'un-American' ;)

Sarcasm aside, I do dislike the trend in American politics for a 'either with us fully or against us' position.

NSG loves Obama, but I think every group of extremists, from the left, the right and the ugly, hate him. Al-Qaeda even have it in for him.

NSG loves Obama, but I think every group of extremists, from the left, the right and the ugly, hate him. Al-Qaeda even have it in for him.

Wow, he must be a pretty bad president if even Al-Qaeda has it in for him!!! After all, people in that organization are well known for their love of America, aren't they?

It is a valid question, in some way. The USA doesn't exactly have a wide political spectrum, in fact I would say it's quite a bit narrower than in most other countries.
The differences between Republicans and Democrats are slim at best, yet there is such a hype about this epic "change" now. I'm not fully sure I understand why. As was pointed out, a lot of Obama's policies are very, very similar to those of the previous governments.

The one thing I can say that does seem different is that that climate of fear and paranoia that seems to have dominated the US for the last couple of years has made way for more positive emotions... but that's hardly a political achievement, is it?

Wow, he must be a pretty bad president if even Al-Qaeda has it in for him!!! After all, people in that organization are well known for their love of America, aren't they?

I thought he was all about peace, love and retreating? Why, then, does Al-Qaeda still see him as an enemy?

I thought he was all about peace, love and retreating? Why, then, does Al-Qaeda still see him as an enemy?

They hate his freedom, dammit! :D

Edit: Seriously, though, what do you expect them to do? An organisation such as theirs cannot exist without an enemy. And so far, the US has been a very grateful enemy indeed. Of course they'll try and keep the status quo.

I think its great to have an African-American President. Lots of the procedures and norms of the Presidency will change of course.

Soon as he's in, the painters will be around to turn the President's official residence into the 'Black House'. He'll deliver his inauguration in the form of a rap, before announcing that he's heading off back to the crib with his ho for some sweet Presidential lovings, then a party with his Presidential Posse, and ask if anyone knows where Nelson Mandela is, since he needs to buy some more dope off him?

The above may not reflect the real views of this poster

They hate his freedom, dammit! :D

Edit: Seriously, though, what do you expect them to do? An organisation such as theirs cannot exist without an enemy. And so far, the US has been a very grateful enemy indeed. Of course they'll try and keep the status quo.

Well, that sorta blows a hole in Obama's "pull out and the world will be a safer place" theory, doesn't it?

NSG loves Obama, but I think every group of extremists, from the left, the right and the ugly, hate him. Al-Qaeda even have it in for him.

wow, an organization dedicated to the destruction of the United States hates the President of the United States?

You're shitting me...they've always seemed such peace loving people.

Well, that sorta blows a hole in Obama's "pull out and the world will be a safer place" theory, doesn't it?

I wasn't aware that he promoted that theory. Here I was thinking his approach was "get the soldiers back and give the diplomats back their jobs"...

I wasn't aware that he promoted that theory. Here I was thinking his approach was "get the soldiers back and give the diplomats back their jobs"...

Yeah, that'll work well. :rolleyes:

Yeah, that'll work well. :rolleyes:

Yeah, much better to shoot Iraqis who were completely uninvolved in attacks on our country! That's the effective way to combat Al-Qaeda!

Yeah, that'll work well. :rolleyes:

Why, cause getting soldiers and civilians killed by the bucketfull was such a brilliant solution?

Yeah, that'll work well. :rolleyes:

When will Obama learn to listen to random wankers on the internet?!?!?!

Yeah, much better to shoot Iraqis who were completely uninvolved in attacks on our country! That's the effective way to combat Al-Qaeda!

Why, cause getting soldiers and civilians killed by the bucketfull was such a brilliant solution?

I love that mindset. "Invading Iraq was a mistake, but we can still undo it! We'll just leave, right fucking now! They'll be fine! Everything will be how it was before!".

When will Obama learn to listen to random wankers on the internet?!?!?!

Especially ones who have specifically stated that they hope he completely fucks up the country just to make himself feel better!

I love that mindset. "Invading Iraq was a mistake, but we can still undo it! We'll just leave, right fucking now! They'll be fine! Everything will be how it was before!".

Who said anything about that? :confused:

I love that mindset. "Invading Iraq was a mistake, but we can still undo it! We'll just leave, right fucking now! They'll be fine! Everything will be how it was before!".

quick, Obama, listen up, random internet wanker has some advice for you!

I love that mindset. "Invading Iraq was a mistake, but we can still undo it! We'll just leave, right fucking now! They'll be fine! Everything will be how it was before!".

Zombie Saddam will be a fair and just ruler.

I love that mindset. "Invading Iraq was a mistake, but we can still undo it! We'll just leave, right fucking now! They'll be fine! Everything will be how it was before!".

Because that's exactly what people have said. Verbatim.

Because that's exactly what people have said. Verbatim.

Or rather, it's what he would want them to say, so he'd have something to rant against.
It's always so hard to rant against rational thoughts...

Because that's exactly what people have said. Verbatim.

Obama's pulling out, isn't it?

Zombie Saddam will be a fair and just ruler.

We'll clean up the Afghan presidential palace for Mullah Omar.

quick, Obama, listen up, random internet wanker has some advice for you!

Neo why do you get so agitated? Good thing Mods don't look in on this thread.

Obama's pulling out, isn't it?

Look he doesn't want more kids. Who are you to criticize the new President's sexual practices?

Neo why do you get so agitated?
what makes you think I'm agitated? I am amused

Good thing Mods don't look in on this thread.

If you feel my comments violate the forum rules you are free to report them.

Look he doesn't want more kids. Who are you to criticize the new President's sexual practices?

Oh dear... I just had a really hard time explaining to my colleagues why I spat tea all over my monitor...

what makes you think I'm agitated? I am amused

Well ok then, the term wanker made me think you were agitated.

If you feel my comments violate the forum rules you are free to report them.

I will not report them Neo, all I was doing was looking out for you. Don't want to see you get in trouble. In the same way you might tell a friend to be careful in the bikie bar and not to tell the big tattooed guy at the bar that he is a poofter.

Look he doesn't want more kids. Who are you to criticize the new President's sexual practices?
:fluffle: :D

Look, it's obvious what pain FO is suffering. If Obama doesn't continue fucking up in exactly the same way Bush did, what will FO hang his let's-hate-USA rants on? FO is looking at a bleak future, the end of an easy and productive trolling run, the end of the gravy train of cheap shots at a big fat target. It's sad, really.

I can discern this because all of you people who insist on feeding him, also insist on quoting him in your posts. If you'd all do less of that, I wouldn't have to read his nonsense at all. Just mentioning it as an observation.

Well ok then, the term wanker made me think you were agitated.

Perhaps it's a cultural divide. I've never used, or had the term used, in a particularly offensive way, more like a general, possibly slightly, but not overly derogatory term to refer to someone random. Much like you might use "some bloke" or equivalent.

If it is a more heavy term as you use it, that's not been my experience with the word.

:fluffle: :D

Look, it's obvious what pain FO is suffering. If Obama doesn't continue fucking up in exactly the same way Bush did, what will FO hang his let's-hate-USA rants on?

Lucky for me, he will. Thank god for the global financial crisis.

Lucky for me, he will.

Don't worry, we believe you.

Perhaps it's a cultural divide. I've never used, or had the term used, in a particularly offensive way, more like a general, possibly slightly, but not overly derogatory term to refer to someone random. Much like you might use "some bloke" or equivalent.

If it is a more heavy term as you use it, that's not been my experience with the word.

Now I know that you're an American.

Perhaps it's a cultural divide. I've never used, or had the term used, in a particularly offensive way, more like a general, possibly slightly, but not overly derogatory term to refer to someone random. Much like you might use "some bloke" or equivalent.

If it is a more heavy term as you use it, that's not been my experience with the word.

In Britain and I think in Australia, it is quite an offensive term. It's like calling someone a twat, or a ****.

In Britain and I think in Australia, it is quite an offensive term. It's like calling someone a twat, or a ****.

ah, well then...I was aiming for slightly but not overly offensive. Perhaps "jackass" would be more appropriate?

Now I know that you're an American.

um...yes, yes I am. I never claimed to be otherwise, and readily admit so when asked....what's your point?

Well, we have to love him over here. After all, he's Irish, and this proves it : http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xkw8ip43Vk

Don't worry, we believe you.

As well you should. FO has shown his in-depth understanding of American politics time and time again. He's a political genius.

As well you should. FO has shown his in-depth understanding of American politics time and time again. He's a political genius.

however, he would still do well to familiarize himself with the writings of pre-eminent russian-american philosopher, Ayn Rand