NationStates Jolt Archive


California Broke

Hotwife
19-01-2009, 16:13
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story

By Evan Halper and Patrick McGreevy
January 17, 2009
Reporting from Sacramento -- The state will suspend tax refunds, welfare checks, student grants and other payments owed to Californians starting Feb. 1, Controller John Chiang announced Friday.

Chiang said he had no choice but to stop making some $3.7 billion in payments in the absence of action by the governor and lawmakers to close the state's nearly $42-billion budget deficit. More than half of those payments are tax refunds.

The controller said the suspended payments could be rolled into IOUs if California still lacks sufficient cash to pay its bills come March or April.

"It pains me to pull this trigger," Chiang said at a news conference in his office. "But it is an action that is critically necessary."

The payments to be frozen include nearly $2 billion in tax refunds; $300 million in cash grants for needy families and the elderly, blind and disabled; and $13 million in grants for college students.

Even if a budget agreement is reached by the end of this month, tax refunds and other payments could remain temporarily frozen. Chiang said a budget deal may not generate cash quickly enough to resume them immediately.

Not all payments will stop Feb. 1. Most school and healthcare programs will be paid, as required by state and federal law. The state will continue to pay more than $6.6 billion in such bills.

And Los Angeles County officials said they would cover welfare payments to more than 500,000 local recipients -- for now.

But California is projected to be $346 million short of the funds it needs to pay all its bills in February. By March, the state would be so far in the red that even continuing to suspend payments would not cover the shortfall. California would be insolvent, making the issuance of IOUs likely.

State officials have already designed an IOU template, Chiang said, and have been negotiating with banks over whether taxpayers could cash or deposit them if they are issued. The state could be forced to pay as much as 5% interest on delayed tax refunds if they are not paid by the end of May, Chiang said.

Wow, I wonder what the crime rate in California will look like after a month with no welfare payments...

I remember the last time, the banks took the IOUs as cash - but this time around, the banks are not going to "just accept" them. It looks like there are actual negotiations, and I'm not sure that all banks will accept them - it's like a free loan if you just accept them, and given California's current credit rating, it's a risky loan for any bank to accept, even with interest, because you have no idea when they're really going to pay you back.

California isn't the only state that's insolvent - Maryland is apparently insolvent as well.

But have no fear, "it doesn't matter if Maryland is broke, as long as Obama is President".

For all of you who wondered who I meant when I said that there are Democrats out there who are in a state of blind worship, who drink the Kool Aid of blind belief, and no longer believe in reality, follow the link to see what I mean by this. This is especially for those of you who say that no one like this exists.

http://www.foxbaltimore.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wbff_vid_1847.shtml
Zombie PotatoHeads
19-01-2009, 16:24
Amazing. Total financial crisis, which was months in the making, in California 1 day away from Obama even becoming president and yet, somehow, it's still all his fault.

I've forgotten and I hope you can help me: Who exactly was President this last year or two while this crisis was developing, Hotwife?


Fascinating to watch, the neo-con mind in action. It's gone straight from blaming Clinton for all the wrongs in the world to blaming Obama.
Reading their opines, one might conclude the past 8 years never happened...
Lunatic Goofballs
19-01-2009, 16:25
*considers investing in canned goods and shotguns*
SaintB
19-01-2009, 16:26
I blame abstinence only sexual education.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 16:26
Amazing. Total financial crisis, which was months in the making, in California 1 day away from Obama even becoming president and yet, somehow, it's still all his fault.

I've forgotten and I hope you can help me: Who exactly was President this last year or two while this crisis was developing, Hotwife?

Your readings skills are lacking.

I'm not saying it's Obama's fault.

I'm saying that the Maryland State Senator is an idiot for believing that it's all ok now, simply because Obama is President.

Learn to read.
Hobabwe
19-01-2009, 16:27
http://punditkitchen.com/2009/01/18/political-pictures-elderly-man-with-gun/#comments

This guy will be a common sight in California soon :P
Exilia and Colonies
19-01-2009, 16:30
Thats pretty damn broke.
Risottia
19-01-2009, 16:35
For all of you who wondered who I meant when I said that there are Democrats out there who are in a state of blind worship, who drink the Kool Aid of blind belief, and no longer believe in reality, follow the link to see what I mean by this. This is especially for those of you who say that no one like this exists.


I didn't know the governor of California was a Democrat.
Oh wait...

No, he isn't.

I also didn't know that the PotUS was a Democrat.
Oh wait...

No, he isn't, either.

Anyway, I foresee US inflation going up and up and the dollar taking some other blows; the Chinese aren't going to pump huge amounts of money into the US currency for any longer.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 16:39
I didn't know the governor of California was a Democrat.
Oh wait...

No, he isn't.


Did I say he was? No... so the first thing you thought I said I didn't say - minus 10 points for your reading comprehension failure..


I also didn't know that the PotUS was a Democrat.
Oh wait...

No, he isn't, either.


Did I say he was? No.. so the second thing you thought I said I didn't say - minus 10 more points for reading comprehension failure - I'm saying that blind faith in Obama isn't going to fix this...


Anyway, I foresee US inflation going up and up and the dollar taking some other blows; the Chinese aren't going to pump huge amounts of money into the US currency for any longer.

If you think Obama has any ability to change that - to make it possible for the Federal government to bail out California (and its Democratic legislature) or to bail out Maryland (and its Democratic governor and Democratic legislature), you're going to be wrong - as wrong as the Maryland State Senator who thinks that all things will be good - as long as Obama is President.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 16:41
Oh bloody dear.
Exilia and Colonies
19-01-2009, 16:42
Did I say he was? No.. so the second thing you thought I said I didn't say - minus 10 more points for reading comprehension failure - I'm saying that blind faith in Obama isn't going to fix this...


But Obama promised Change. Surely they'd get a few nickels or something :p
Risottia
19-01-2009, 16:43
Did I say he was? No.. so the second thing you thought I said I didn't say - minus 10 more points for reading comprehension failure - I'm saying that blind faith in Obama isn't going to fix this...

Oh, OK then. Sorry and kudos.

If you think Obama has any ability to change that - to make it possible for the Federal government to bail out California (and its Democratic legislature) or to bail out Maryland (and its Democratic governor and Democratic legislature), you're going to be wrong - as wrong as the Maryland State Senator who thinks that all things will be good - as long as Obama is President.

I think that Obama (and it would have exactly the same with McCain) will HAVE to bail out the bankrupt States, or face revolt.
How will the administration bail out the States? Simple. Inflation + letting the dollar go downhill (that is, since external debts are in dollars, less debts). Just like Italy did back in the '80s during the Craxi cabinets.

This will also help US exports, so the major corporations will be quite happy.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 16:46
Oh, OK then. Sorry and kudos.



I think that Obama (and it would have exactly the same with McCain) will HAVE to bail out the bankrupt States, or face revolt.
How will the administration bail out the States? Simple. Inflation + letting the dollar go downhill (that is, since external debts are in dollars, less debts). Just like Italy did back in the '80s during the Craxi cabinets.

This will also help US exports, so the major corporations will be quite happy.

I don't believe there's anything that he can do.

Inflation isn't going to occur fast enough to make up for the lack of funds that is occurring right now.

A month or two with no welfare payments, and you're going to have poor people burning down city centers.
Cabra West
19-01-2009, 16:48
I don't believe there's anything that he can do.

Inflation isn't going to occur fast enough to make up for the lack of funds that is occurring right now.

A month or two with no welfare payments, and you're going to have poor people burning down city centers.

Well, just so long as he doesn't fly over it in the Airforce 1 to get a good gawk...
Exilia and Colonies
19-01-2009, 16:48
Inflation isn't going to occur fast enough to make up for the lack of funds that is occurring right now.


Then the solution is to artifically force inflation by printing money.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 16:49
A month or two with no welfare payments, and you're going to have poor people burning down city centers.
Says they're covering welfare in the article. Bit of a kick in the teeth for students, mind.

Oh and inflation is going to be pretty tragic for everyone. With the US government about to print eight hundred billion dollars to cover Obama's plans for the first year alone (and it's not going to be the end of this pish either), the US economy is going to be in a lot of trouble in the coming years. Tax and spend is about to be changed to print and spend, and that's never, ever a good thing.
Tagmatium
19-01-2009, 16:49
Then the solution is to artifically force inflation by printing money.
That always tends towards a foolish idea.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 16:50
Then the solution is to artifically force inflation by printing money.
That's not a solution, at all. It's very, very short-sighted.
Exilia and Colonies
19-01-2009, 16:53
That's not a solution, at all. It's very, very short-sighted.

Later you burn some money or something.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 16:54
Says they're covering welfare in the article. Bit of a kick in the teeth for students, mind.

Oh and inflation is going to be pretty tragic for everyone. With the US government about to print eight hundred billion dollars to cover Obama's plans for the first year alone (and it's not going to be the end of this pish either), the US economy is going to be in a lot of trouble in the coming years. Tax and spend is about to be changed to print and spend, and that's never, ever a good thing.

Only in the immediate Los Angeles area is where they're covering welfare, and only for a very short period of time. If it goes on for any length of time, California will be fucked.

We've already "spent" 7 or 8 trillion, and I see no reason to believe that another 800 billions will "miraculously" turn the economy around.
Tagmatium
19-01-2009, 16:56
Later you burn some money or something.
Or give stacks of them to kids to play with because they're worthless.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 16:56
Later you burn some money or something.
... what?

"Hoi population of the US, hand over the money which is now worth less but worth holding onto and all"
"How's about fuck off"
"Ach hadn't foreseen this"
"Aye yer such plebs"
"Err we'll tax it off you then"
"You said you weren't going to increase taxes on us, though, so we won't vote for you next time (not that you would since you annihilated our savings)"
"Ach bloody democracy"
Exilia and Colonies
19-01-2009, 16:56
Then the solution is to artifically force inflation by printing money.

Scratch that thats a terrible idea. Loan them non-existant money. That creates money with provisions to destroy it later.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 16:58
Only in the immediate Los Angeles area is where they're covering welfare, and only for a very short period of time. If it goes on for any length of time, California will be fucked.
Eugh. Someone ought to go around to every legislator in California's house(s) and punch them in the face until they get it paid, because it's not the kind of problem which only impacts those on welfare.
We've already "spent" 7 or 8 trillion, and I see no reason to believe that another 800 billions will "miraculously" turn the economy around.
Quite.
Tagmatium
19-01-2009, 16:59
Scratch that thats a terrible idea. Loan them non-existant money. That creates money with provisions to destroy it later.
What, like handing out friggin' monopoly money? That's an even worse idea!
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 16:59
Scratch that thats a terrible idea. Loan them non-existant money. That creates money with provisions to destroy it later.
Not going to impress the general public at all.

"So err where's my money?"
"It was only ever metaphorical"
"Oh you bastards"
Exilia and Colonies
19-01-2009, 17:00
Not going to impress the general public at all.

"So err where's my money?"
"It was only ever metaphorical"
"Oh you bastards"

But those banks got away with it... :(
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 17:00
Not going to impress the general public at all.

"So err where's my money?"
"It was only ever metaphorical"
"Oh you bastards"

**sounds of store fronts being smashed in**

**smoke and flames**

**chants of angry mobs**
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 17:03
But those banks got away with it... :(
No, they didn't. They had their assets massively reduced in value compared to what they were worth at the time. Which is pretty similar to inflation, but perhaps worse.
SaintB
19-01-2009, 17:42
On a serious note. I bet all those politicians who spent the money in the first place will get their big fat paychecks on time, without fail.
Eofaerwic
19-01-2009, 17:52
On a serious note. I bet all those politicians who spent the money in the first place will get their big fat paychecks on time, without fail.

Well it worked for the bank CEOs...
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 17:52
No, they didn't. They had their assets massively reduced in value compared to what they were worth at the time. Which is pretty similar to inflation, but perhaps worse.

But the people who did this to the banks got away with it. In fact, they were in some cases handsomely rewarded.

The only people who 'suffered' are the stock holders. And since most of those people aren't direct owners, there is bugger all they can do.

Also, the bondholders &c. have got a completely free pass at the expense of the taxpayer.

It is a complete and total utter fucking cock-up, caused by stupidity, corruption and incompetence at all levels.
Katganistan
19-01-2009, 17:53
Well, what do they expect? They spend like crazy, they depend on other states for their water and energy supplies, they have the most stringent (read expensive) anti-pollution laws in place and they have a shit-ton of undocumented workers whose medical care and children's education must be taken care of.

Perhaps if they didn't choose an actor as their governor and someone who actually has a clue as to what's necessary to get the state back on its feet financially (yes, I'm looking at you Mr. I Made Owning Military Vehicles that Guzzle Gas Cool, then Decided to Save the Environment), maybe things will improve.
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 17:53
I am, however, thoroughly expecting this news to be overshadowed by Ireland's problems.
Katganistan
19-01-2009, 17:59
**sounds of store fronts being smashed in**

**smoke and flames**

**chants of angry mobs**
Yes. Because that's exactly what happened in the Great Depression, isn't it?
G3N13
19-01-2009, 18:05
Wow, I wonder what the crime rate in California will look like after a month with no welfare payments...

Wouldn't it be better for the society to raise taxes instead rather than face riots?

edit:
That'd be less than 1,500$ annually average per person. With all the millionaires and Fortune 500 companies around it really shouldn't even be an effort.
The Cat-Tribe
19-01-2009, 18:06
*waiting to see Hotwife's dire predictions prove out*

*also waiting to see Hotwife assign some blame for this situation to the Republicans*

*expects neither will happen, so won't hold breath*
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 18:24
*waiting to see Hotwife's dire predictions prove out*

*also waiting to see Hotwife assign some blame for this situation to the Republicans*

*expects neither will happen, so won't hold breath*

You'll notice that you have a Democratic legislature in California, and a Governor who is Republican in name only.

As for Maryland, it's Democratic governor and Democratic legislature.

But who cares? The Maryland State Senator I linked says that it doesn't matter if the world is going to hell in a hand basket - as long as Barack is President.

As if wishing will make everything go away...
South Lorenya
19-01-2009, 18:31
Why do I have a mental image of the californian pensions being paid, but the politicians "accidentally" giving zimbabwe dolalrs not US dollars?

(Trivia: 1.8 trillion USD is equal to California's GDP. 1.8 trillion ZWD is -- well, was -- equal to about 54 eggs.)
Ashmoria
19-01-2009, 18:33
You'll notice that you have a Democratic legislature in California, and a Governor who is Republican in name only.

As for Maryland, it's Democratic governor and Democratic legislature.

But who cares? The Maryland State Senator I linked says that it doesn't matter if the world is going to hell in a hand basket - as long as Barack is President.

As if wishing will make everything go away...
arent you blowing this a bit out of proportion? she is excited about obama being elected. for her, at that time, on that day, it even overcomes her dismay at MD going broke.

it wasnt a policy statement.
Katganistan
19-01-2009, 18:35
Ashmoria, shame on you. It's always the Democrat's fault.
Even though for the majority of the Bush presidency they had a "mandate" because they had a Republican congress!

Why do you hate freedom?
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 18:35
arent you blowing this a bit out of proportion? she is excited about obama being elected. for her, at that time, on that day, it even overcomes her dismay at MD going broke.

it wasnt a policy statement.

First people say that there's no one that giddy about Obama, that there isn't any drinking of the Kool Aid - then when someone very straightforwardly says on video that nothing matters now that Barack is President, they seek to minimize this, because it shows that the Kool Aid does exist...

Face it, Maryland is fucked. Especially if someone that brainless is a state Senator.
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 18:42
Municipal and state bankruptcies are going to be a defining feature of the next two years. People have to come to terms with that. This is what BHO means when he is talking about shared sacrifice.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 18:43
Municipal and state bankruptcies are going to be a defining feature of the next two years. People have to come to terms with that. This is what BHO means when he is talking about shared sacrifice.

Shared sacrifice = you're fucked
Knights of Liberty
19-01-2009, 18:47
You know who could save us all right now?


Reagan.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 18:48
You know who could save us all right now?


Reagan.

I don't think anyone can save us. This is something that's going to have to run its course.
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 18:48
Shared sacrifice = you're fucked

Well not if you don't rely upon government for you moneys. But yeah, pretty much.

It really comes down to: do we pay teachers & firemen, or do we pay teachers & firemen's pensions? I'm guessing the latter for demographic reasons.
Knights of Liberty
19-01-2009, 18:50
I don't think anyone can save us. This is something that's going to have to run its course.

But...Reagan is a Republican! And like...his economic policies are teh win and saved the country from Carter, terrorists, liberals, and blacks. He could save us! Plus, hes like the Republican Jesus, so even though hes dead, he'll probably rise from the grave soon to save the USA and destroy all the hethens in a final, epic battle in Death Valley.


ALL HAIL REAGAN!
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 18:55
But...Reagan is a Republican! And like...his economic policies are teh win and saved the country from Carter, terrorists, liberals, and blacks. He could save us! Plus, hes like the Republican Jesus, so even though hes dead, he'll probably rise from the grave soon to save the USA and destroy all the hethens in a final, epic battle in Death Valley.


ALL HAIL REAGAN!

No.
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 18:57
If California didn't go through this IOU thing every other year or so, I'd panic. But the truth is our legislature does this a lot. They're required to have a budget by a certain time or everything freezes, and the push it every time. There's always these histrionics to get people panicy and behind whatever solution the person pulling them wants. I'm too tired right now to look into it, but I've little doubt there's some version of the budget that the controller wants that will make it 'all better.'
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 18:58
If California didn't go through this IOU thing every other year or so, I'd panic. But the truth is our legislature does this a lot. They're required to have a budget by a certain time or everything freezes, and the push it every time. There's always these histrionics to get people panicy and behind whatever solution the person pulling them wants. I'm too tired right now to look into it, but I've little doubt there's some version of the budget that the controller wants that will make it 'all better.'

You might want to panic. With the shape the banks are in now, they're balking at honoring the IOUs.
Knights of Liberty
19-01-2009, 19:01
No.

Hey, if youre allowed to make blanket generalizations about hero worship, based on one senator's comments, Im allowed to make those same generalization based on comments from Right Wing talking heads and religious conservatives, as well as the blatant hero worship every Republican running for any federal office displays, arent I?
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 19:02
You might want to panic. With the shape the banks are in now, they're balking at honoring the IOUs.

Dude, if I panicked every time you told me to...
JuNii
19-01-2009, 19:03
If California didn't go through this IOU thing every other year or so, I'd panic. But the truth is our legislature does this a lot. They're required to have a budget by a certain time or everything freezes, and the push it every time. There's always these histrionics to get people panicy and behind whatever solution the person pulling them wants. I'm too tired right now to look into it, but I've little doubt there's some version of the budget that the controller wants that will make it 'all better.'

the fact that ious are passed ot so regularly that you don't find it a concern makes me wonder why anyone would want to stay in California...
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 19:07
the fact that ious are passed ot so regularly that you don't find it a concern makes me wonder why anyone would want to stay in California...

They're not passed out, I think we actually got that far once or twice. Someone threatens that they will, but only if their version of the budget doesn't pass. Plus, you know, most of us don't work for the state so we continue to get real paychecks.
JuNii
19-01-2009, 19:13
They're not passed out, I think we actually got that far once or twice. Someone threatens that they will, but only if their version of the budget doesn't pass. Plus, you know, most of us don't work for the state so we continue to get real paychecks.

ah, misunderstood. if they threaten IOU's every now and then... that's different. :p

but it sounds like tax refunds and welfare would be IOU'ed.
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 19:18
ah, misunderstood. if they threaten IOU's every now and then... that's different. :p

but it sounds like tax refunds and welfare would be IOU'ed.

Just translate it into BoogetyBoogetyBoogetyBoogety!
Anti-Social Darwinism
19-01-2009, 19:30
If California didn't go through this IOU thing every other year or so, I'd panic. But the truth is our legislature does this a lot. They're required to have a budget by a certain time or everything freezes, and the push it every time. There's always these histrionics to get people panicy and behind whatever solution the person pulling them wants. I'm too tired right now to look into it, but I've little doubt there's some version of the budget that the controller wants that will make it 'all better.'

Actually, now I am starting to worry. I doubt very much that BofA or Wells Fargo would honor IOUs issued in place of my pension.

Also, if California ever decides to grab state pension funds to help with the budget, this would be the time.
Mirkana
19-01-2009, 19:31
This will not end well.
Kamsaki-Myu
19-01-2009, 19:33
I don't think anyone can save us. This is something that's going to have to run its course.
But what is "its course"? Mass unrest, obviously, but in what sense? Are we talking massive anarchy, Socialism reborn, Theocratic rule?

Basically, what you want to do is pre-empt totally chaotic unrest with something - anything - that you can build a new system around. And then you have a total revolution, with the backing of the uneasy general populace. The thing about revolution, you see, is it doesn't follow rules. A revolting nation doesn't care for how much money it owes itself or other countries. All bets are off, so to speak. And, as a result, the simple act of holding revolution and resolving that revolution is sufficient to detract from the "course" of current economic difficulty.

All you do is have a revolution, restructure the country (however you want to do it), and pretend that as a result of that revolution there is no financial crisis. And as a result, there won't be. Because suddenly, everyone's in on it. There is no national debt, no spiralling house prices, no massive inflation rates or whatever. All of the problems cease to be problems when we realise they're all problems we've collectively made up for ourselves. And if, as a collective, we decide they're not problems any more, they won't be.

Simple as that. 'course then you'll have other problems to contend with, but you can start to figure those out now and get a head start on them, rather than just letting them hit you like the current crisis turned out.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 19:35
But what is "its course"? Mass unrest, obviously, but in what sense? Are we talking massive anarchy, Socialism reborn, Theocratic rule?

The thing about revolution, you see, is it doesn't follow rules. A revolting nation doesn't care for how much money it owes itself or other countries. All bets are off, so to speak. And, as a result, the simple act of holding revolution and resolving that revolution is sufficient to detract from the "course" of current economic difficulty.

All you do is have a revolution, restructure the country (however you want to do it), and pretend that as a result of that revolution there is no financial crisis. And as a result, there won't be. Because suddenly, everyone's in on it. There is no national debt, no spiralling house prices, no massive inflation rates or whatever. All of the problems cease to be problems when we realise they're all problems we've collectively made up for ourselves. And if, as a collective, we decide they're not problems any more, they won't be.

Simple as that.

Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.
Kamsaki-Myu
19-01-2009, 19:38
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.
No, you're right, it doesn't. But do people running riot in the streets care for the way things "work"? No, they want things that "will work". And if you can give them that, then the way things "do work" really doesn't matter.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 19:40
No, you're right, it doesn't. But do people running riot in the streets care for the way things "work"? No, they want things that "will work". And if you can give them that, then the way things "do work" really doesn't matter.

In a couple of months without their welfare checks, you won't be able to rationally discusss anything with the rioting would-be recipients.
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 19:41
Unfortunately, it doesn't work like that.

Actually, if your country is full of productive intelligent people, and has an abundance of natural resources, you could pull that off if you mostly dumped the debt on foreign types first.

Unfortunately this is the US we are talking about...
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 19:51
Yep. (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/01/19/MN5D15B9LH.DTL)

Really, it's the same old story. Schwarzenegger vetoed the Democrat's budget, the solution is to do an end run around him like he tried unsuccessfully to do around them early in his first term. In order for it to work, they have to start ringing the doom bell loud and early:
State Controller John Chiang said in an interview that he would support putting a tax increase package to voters in an effort to break the long-running legislative stalemate that has left California with a $42 billion deficit and weeks away from delaying refunds to taxpayers and grants to college students and low-income and disabled residents.

If Republicans and Democrats can't compromise on budget cuts and tax increases, "they may at least be able to agree to let voters make a choice," Chiang told The Chronicle.

Mac Taylor, the state's new legislative analyst, made a similar suggestion earlier this month in a critique of the governor's proposed budget for the fiscal year ending in mid-2010. A package of tax increases proposed by the Democrats and vetoed by the governor could go on the ballot for the voters to decide, he wrote.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 19:51
Actually, if your country is full of productive intelligent people, and has an abundance of natural resources, you could pull that off if you mostly dumped the debt on foreign types first.

Unfortunately this is the US we are talking about...

Indeed. But I'm told we have nothing to worry about, because Barack is President! :rolleyes:
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 19:57
Really, it's the same old story. Schwarzenegger vetoed the Democrat's budget, the solution is to do an end run around him like he tried unsuccessfully to do around them early in his first term. In order for it to work, they have to start ringing the doom bell loud and early:

It isn't the same old story. The old story was posturing for local pork. The tax revenues really are collapsing this time. At some point in the very near future there is actually going to have to be a choice made between paying state pensions and which state services get axed.

California was one of the bubble states.
Lacadaemon
19-01-2009, 19:58
Indeed. But I'm told we have nothing to worry about, because Barack is President! :rolleyes:

I don't envy him. The expectations that have been generated for him would be impossible to meet in ordinary times.

Still I am not going to hang the man because some of his followers are morons.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 19:59
I don't envy him. The expectations that have been generated for him would be impossible to meet in ordinary times.

Still I am not going to hang the man because some of his followers are morons.

I actually think he's way smarter than 90% of his supporters.
Arroza
19-01-2009, 20:02
I actually think he's way smarter than 90% of his supporters.

The same could be easily said about any political candidate.
Wilgrove
19-01-2009, 21:02
Well, what do they expect? They spend like crazy, they depend on other states for their water and energy supplies, they have the most stringent (read expensive) anti-pollution laws in place and they have a shit-ton of undocumented workers whose medical care and children's education must be taken care of.

Perhaps if they didn't choose an actor as their governor and someone who actually has a clue as to what's necessary to get the state back on its feet financially (yes, I'm looking at you Mr. I Made Owning Military Vehicles that Guzzle Gas Cool, then Decided to Save the Environment), maybe things will improve.

I thought they had those problems before the Govenator was in office, but yea, this is what happen when you elect incompetent idiots into office.

Yes. Because that's exactly what happened in the Great Depression, isn't it?

Back in the Great Depression, people were actually smart...and sane. Nowanddays...well in the words of Agent K from MIB,

A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

Thank you Agent K.

You know who could save us all right now?


Reagan.

Actually I wouldn't mind having Clinton back in office. Hell he can have all the BJs he wants, as long as he gets the financial crisis back under control. Hell he was able to balance the budget during his term.

This will not end well.

Nope. I will now be selling pitchforks, torches, and maps to rich people's homes.

The same could be easily said about any political candidate.

Except Bush. I think most of Americans are smarter than him.
Myrmidonisia
19-01-2009, 21:03
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story



Wow, I wonder what the crime rate in California will look like after a month with no welfare payments...

I remember the last time, the banks took the IOUs as cash - but this time around, the banks are not going to "just accept" them. It looks like there are actual negotiations, and I'm not sure that all banks will accept them - it's like a free loan if you just accept them, and given California's current credit rating, it's a risky loan for any bank to accept, even with interest, because you have no idea when they're really going to pay you back.

California isn't the only state that's insolvent - Maryland is apparently insolvent as well.

But have no fear, "it doesn't matter if Maryland is broke, as long as Obama is President".

For all of you who wondered who I meant when I said that there are Democrats out there who are in a state of blind worship, who drink the Kool Aid of blind belief, and no longer believe in reality, follow the link to see what I mean by this. This is especially for those of you who say that no one like this exists.

http://www.foxbaltimore.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wbff_vid_1847.shtml
I'd really be impressed if the legislators stopped their salaries.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 21:04
I'd really be impressed if the legislators stopped their salaries.

The last of the petty cash will be spent on their salaries - you know that.
Arroza
19-01-2009, 21:05
Nope. I will now be selling pitchforks, torches, and maps to rich people's homes.


Well in California's case, every pitchfork/molotov combo should automatically come with a map to their nearest politician's residence, and campaign headquarters...
Sdaeriji
19-01-2009, 21:10
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story



Wow, I wonder what the crime rate in California will look like after a month with no welfare payments...

I remember the last time, the banks took the IOUs as cash - but this time around, the banks are not going to "just accept" them. It looks like there are actual negotiations, and I'm not sure that all banks will accept them - it's like a free loan if you just accept them, and given California's current credit rating, it's a risky loan for any bank to accept, even with interest, because you have no idea when they're really going to pay you back.

California isn't the only state that's insolvent - Maryland is apparently insolvent as well.

But have no fear, "it doesn't matter if Maryland is broke, as long as Obama is President".

For all of you who wondered who I meant when I said that there are Democrats out there who are in a state of blind worship, who drink the Kool Aid of blind belief, and no longer believe in reality, follow the link to see what I mean by this. This is especially for those of you who say that no one like this exists.

http://www.foxbaltimore.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wbff_vid_1847.shtml

It's amazing how you can take a situation that has almost nothing to do with Obama whatsoever and make it all about him anyway. You speak of drinking the Kool Aid, but you're willfully blind to the Hi-C you're chugging down. The only people saying anything even remotely like what you wish you were hearing are fellow right-wing ideologues who are trying to create this Obama bogeyman in some pathetic effort to salvage some sort of victory out of the massive annihilation they experienced this past November.
Myrmidonisia
19-01-2009, 21:10
The last of the petty cash will be spent on their salaries - you know that.
Cash is the key word. You know they won't write checks to themselves. I'll bet it's hard to find a bank that will cash a State of California check. Even with the trillion dollars we've given them, so far.
Hotwife
19-01-2009, 21:15
Cash is the key word. You know they won't write checks to themselves. I'll bet it's hard to find a bank that will cash a State of California check. Even with the trillion dollars we've given them, so far.

They're having to negotiate with banks over the IOUs they're planning - they never had to negotiate before.

This means the banks are balking. Which means that there's a good chance that most banks won't take them, and they'll be worthless.

Since they've stopped paying on their municipal bonds already, their credit rating is already junk. Which means they'll be unable to borrow any more.
Myrmidonisia
19-01-2009, 21:19
They're having to negotiate with banks over the IOUs they're planning - they never had to negotiate before.

This means the banks are balking. Which means that there's a good chance that most banks won't take them, and they'll be worthless.

Since they've stopped paying on their municipal bonds already, their credit rating is already junk. Which means they'll be unable to borrow any more.
Like I told the whiner from Michigan, as long as the State is still spending money, there's something that can be cut. If the legislators don't have the courage to do it, then they can watch the State go bankrupt. Problem is that there are so many idiots in California, those same legislators will be elected time and time again.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 21:20
Since they've stopped paying on their municipal bonds already, their credit rating is already junk. Which means they'll be unable to borrow any more.
Och I'm sure there are companies out there who will consolidate those debts into one 'low' monthly payment for the next 5000 years.
Fighter4u
19-01-2009, 21:21
Anyway, I foresee US inflation going up and up and the dollar taking some other blows; the Chinese aren't going to pump huge amounts of money into the US currency for any longer.


Well thats bad news for us Canadians. If the U.S dollar goes down then the Canadian manfactering industry is screwed, along with the papaer plup mills and quite a few others industrys. Heck who knows...if Onteria which is in debt anyway falls, maybe the rest of the country will go with it and drag Alberat down with it. Such hammering the Yankees also.
Wilgrove
19-01-2009, 21:28
Well in California's case, every pitchfork/molotov combo should automatically come with a map to their nearest politician's residence, and campaign headquarters...

IE Rich people.
Yootopia
19-01-2009, 21:28
Well thats bad news for us Canadians. If the U.S dollar goes down then the Canadian manfactering industry is screwed, along with the papaer plup mills and quite a few others industrys. Heck who knows...if Onteria which is in debt anyway falls, maybe the rest of the country will go with it and drag Alberat down with it. Such hammering the Yankees also.
Like tolly ya eh.
Eusqueezeabohner
19-01-2009, 21:40
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story



Wow, I wonder what the crime rate in California will look like after a month with no welfare payments...

I remember the last time, the banks took the IOUs as cash - but this time around, the banks are not going to "just accept" them. It looks like there are actual negotiations, and I'm not sure that all banks will accept them - it's like a free loan if you just accept them, and given California's current credit rating, it's a risky loan for any bank to accept, even with interest, because you have no idea when they're really going to pay you back.

California isn't the only state that's insolvent - Maryland is apparently insolvent as well.

But have no fear, "it doesn't matter if Maryland is broke, as long as Obama is President".

For all of you who wondered who I meant when I said that there are Democrats out there who are in a state of blind worship, who drink the Kool Aid of blind belief, and no longer believe in reality, follow the link to see what I mean by this. This is especially for those of you who say that no one like this exists.

http://www.foxbaltimore.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wbff_vid_1847.shtml
I sense Atlas shrugging, from some reason. Los Angeles is also preparing to lay off approximately 2300 teachers and increase class sizes. Any bets on the rise in truancy and juvenile crime? Of course it will cost the money they save in order to build, staff, and populate the new prison space. I'm sure the "Great and Merciful Lord Obama" will provide. Right.

How is inflation the correct answer. Check out the Weimar republic after the WWI. All printing additional notes does is cause hyperinflation. If you could keep it a secret, maybe. That's just not realistic. Furthermore, lenders at the moment are staying out of the market because they know inflation will cheapen their loans. Why price money at 1% when you know inflation will hit 4% at a minimum?
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 21:40
It's amazing how you can take a situation that has almost nothing to do with Obama whatsoever and make it all about him anyway. You speak of drinking the Kool Aid, but you're willfully blind to the Hi-C you're chugging down. The only people saying anything even remotely like what you wish you were hearing are fellow right-wing ideologues who are trying to create this Obama bogeyman in some pathetic effort to salvage some sort of victory out of the massive annihilation they experienced this past November.

It's almost an admirable strategy, the best hope they have for 2010 and beyond is to exaggerate peoples stated expectations (suddenly reversing the trend or working to end policies that are really only 8 years old is 'expecting him to walk on water') to the point of ridiculousness so that even if he does start the long, slow process of turning the ship - a difficult task in and of itself - they can bill him as a disappointment and hope that our memories are shorter than two years so people will put the architects of the disaster back in charge. The sad thing is they'll think it's working because 2010 won't likely be as much of a sea change as 2006 and 2008 because they won't be running against an unpopular administration. The gains, if there are any, won't be as significant, and if there is any loss whatsoever, it will of course signal the end! THE END! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!
One-O-One
19-01-2009, 23:22
*considers investing in canned goods and shotguns*

I thought you were from Connecticut?
Fighter4u
19-01-2009, 23:28
Like tolly ya eh.

But don't worry. I got enough Maple Syrup and Canadian Baloney to tie me down until the Second Coming. :tongue:
The Cat-Tribe
19-01-2009, 23:28
In a couple of months without their welfare checks, you won't be able to rationally discusss anything with the rioting would-be recipients.

Because everyone knows that welfare recipients are little more than rabid animals. :rolleyes:

Sometimes you really disgust me. :(
One-O-One
19-01-2009, 23:28
Ashmoria, shame on you. It's always the Democrat's fault.
Even though for the majority of the Bush presidency they had a "mandate" because they had a Republican congress!

Why do you hate freedom?

Catty.
Knights of Liberty
19-01-2009, 23:30
Because everyone knows that welfare recipients are little more than rabid animals. :rolleyes:

Sometimes you really disgust me. :(

Sometimes?


Besides, Im sure if everyone stopped recieving their money from whoever was giving it to them, only the welfare recipients would riot. Everyone else, you know, those "winners" with jobs who are applying themselves, would remain calm.

We all know only the poor, lazy, dirty jobless riot.
Trostia
19-01-2009, 23:31
Because everyone knows that welfare recipients are little more than rabid animals. :rolleyes:

Sometimes you really disgust me. :(

You can console yourself with the knowledge that when, in a few months, there aren't any welfare riots as he predicted, he will conveniently forget this conversation ever happened.

You didn't hear it from me. I was never here.
One-O-One
19-01-2009, 23:32
In a couple of months without their welfare checks, you won't be able to rationally discusss anything with the rioting would-be recipients.

You have the dubious honour of being the first person I've ever put on my ignore list, this as a nation who has been here on and off since 2005.

Well done.
Risottia
19-01-2009, 23:35
I don't believe there's anything that he can do.

Inflation isn't going to occur fast enough to make up for the lack of funds that is occurring right now.

A month or two with no welfare payments, and you're going to have poor people burning down city centers.

No wait. Inflation will occur at a sort of sustainable rate, because many economies around the world NEED to export into the US: credit will be given - there's the IMF, there's negotiation rounds at the WTO, there's the G8 (or even widened to G8 + Brazil, China, India).

Anyway, yea, a month or two without welfare payments, no subsidies for schools and revolts and large-scale strikes will happen - people know they have social rights and won't accept them being cut down. This is why Obama needs to keep the welfare system going. At any cost. By Keynes economics, by direct statal intervention, by any means.
The Cat-Tribe
19-01-2009, 23:50
Sometimes?


Besides, Im sure if everyone stopped recieving their money from whoever was giving it to them, only the welfare recipients would riot. Everyone else, you know, those "winners" with jobs who are applying themselves, would remain calm.

We all know only the poor, lazy, dirty jobless riot.

Not to mention ....

From the OP story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story):

The payments to be frozen include nearly $2 billion in tax refunds; $300 million in cash grants for needy families and the elderly, blind and disabled; and $13 million in grants for college students.

Lord knows the damage caused the last time the elderly, blind, and disabled rioted!!
Knights of Liberty
19-01-2009, 23:52
Not to mention ....

From the OP story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story):

The payments to be frozen include nearly $2 billion in tax refunds; $300 million in cash grants for needy families and the elderly, blind and disabled; and $13 million in grants for college students.

Lord knows the damage caused the last time the elderly, blind, and disabled rioted!!

We are DOOOOOOOOMED!
Fartsniffage
19-01-2009, 23:55
Not to mention ....

From the OP story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story):

The payments to be frozen include nearly $2 billion in tax refunds; $300 million in cash grants for needy families and the elderly, blind and disabled; and $13 million in grants for college students.

Lord knows the damage caused the last time the elderly, blind, and disabled rioted!!

http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w11/img.164776_t.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eEwaLd9Z2bPV/340x.jpg

It happens.
Cannot think of a name
19-01-2009, 23:57
We are DOOOOOOOOMED!

Haven't you seen Blindness?
Marrakech II
20-01-2009, 00:03
It doesn't matter if the State of Maryland is broke if Obama is President.

This came from a Maryland State Senator? Are you kidding? I see get the impeachment process started right away. She obviously lives in a fantasy land.
Marrakech II
20-01-2009, 00:04
http://www.nancarrow-webdesk.com/warehouse/storage2/2008-w11/img.164776_t.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eEwaLd9Z2bPV/340x.jpg

It happens.

Image 1: Not for public use. LOL.....
JuNii
20-01-2009, 00:05
Not to mention ....

From the OP story (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-budget17-2009jan17%2C0%2C4472460.story):

The payments to be frozen include nearly $2 billion in tax refunds; $300 million in cash grants for needy families and the elderly, blind and disabled; and $13 million in grants for college students.

Lord knows the damage caused the last time the elderly, blind, and disabled rioted!!

oohhhh TCT... Never underestimate those cranky Elderly... and those blind drive by shootings? oh man the carnage! :eek:
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 00:37
If this torpedoes my train, people are going to die. I could care less who has the top spot in the White House; I voted for High Speed Rail, baby!

In other news, I walked a mile to the grocery store in Malibu and saw half a dozen Lamborghinis. It's nice to know that some people have perspective in these trying times.[/sarcasm]
Lacadaemon
20-01-2009, 00:38
No high speed train.
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 00:40
You're making me very, very sad.
Lacadaemon
20-01-2009, 00:47
You should riot. And this way you can beat the rush.
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 00:48
If only I knew where to riot!

Think they'll go after the Koreans again?
Arroza
20-01-2009, 00:55
If only I knew where to riot!

Think they'll go after the Koreans again?

Have you considered rioting in La Jolla or Palm Springs? They have better stuff.
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 00:58
I was just in La Jolla the other day. Hard times.

The steakhouses are really cutting back. Ran out of Porterhouse. And the police didn't even go out of their way to harass us as we left a liquor store. Hard times, indeed.
Lacadaemon
20-01-2009, 00:59
Forget the koreans. They like it. It gives them a chance to use their shotguns.

I'd find somebody weaker; somebody who doesn't like guns and who isn't very good at fighting.
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 01:06
somebody who doesn't like guns and who isn't very good at fighting.I don't know if beating up Susan Sarandon and Richard Gere is the best solution to this whole crisis.
Lacadaemon
20-01-2009, 01:23
It's a start. Even the longest journey begins with a single step.
Trostia
20-01-2009, 01:27
It's a start. Even the longest journey begins with a single step.

Not for quadriplegics.
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 01:29
Then a single revolution. :D

In other news, I'm going to hell.
Cannot think of a name
20-01-2009, 02:51
In other news, I walked a mile to the grocery store in Malibu and saw half a dozen Lamborghinis. It's nice to know that some people have perspective in these trying times.[/sarcasm]

I just spent the last week watching the Barrett-Jackson Collector Car Auction...
Lacadaemon
20-01-2009, 03:16
Not for quadriplegics.

That's 'cos they are lazy. But nevermind, once their welfare benefits get cut off, they'll be up and around in no time.
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 03:54
Doing handstands, no doubt.

EDIT: Wait a minute. Quadriplegics. Oh.

Boy, I look real stupid right now, eh?
Trostia
20-01-2009, 04:12
Doing handstands, no doubt.

EDIT: Wait a minute. Quadriplegics. Oh.

Boy, I look real stupid right now, eh?

To be fair, I didn't specify whether I meant quadriplegic hexapods, who could probably do handstands if they were so inclined.
Christmahanikwanzikah
20-01-2009, 04:16
So... if I don't file...

Can they give me an "IOU one audit?"
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:23
While seemingly astonishing to you, those of us who live in California are quite aware of the state of our economy, and we share your horror that not-yet-inaugurated President-elect Obama has done nothing to help the crisis in the zero days he has been in office. If only we'd had a conservative to lead us through these tough times for the past few years, I'm sure the fate of our state would be much different.
Knights of Liberty
20-01-2009, 04:24
While seemingly astonishing to you, those of us who live in California are quite aware of the state of our economy, and we share your horror that not-yet-inaugurated President-elect Obama has done nothing to help the crisis in the zero days he has been in office. If only we'd had a conservative to lead us through these tough times for the past few years, I'm sure the fate of our state would be much different.

Reagan.
Christmahanikwanzikah
20-01-2009, 04:26
While seemingly astonishing to you, those of us who live in California are quite aware of the state of our economy, and we share your horror that not-yet-inaugurated President-elect Obama has done nothing to help the crisis in the zero days he has been in office. If only we'd had a conservative to lead us through these tough times for the past few years, I'm sure the fate of our state would be much different.

Look, it doesn't matter one damn bit who the President is. When we levy the staggering amount of laws and taxes on business, it's no wonder they move out of state. It's too hard to do business here, as compared to Arizona and Nevada.
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:27
Well, what do they expect? They spend like crazy, they depend on other states for their water and energy supplies

For the record, that's entirely SoCal's fault. If we split the state near Salinas we'd do fine up here with the Hetch Hetchy.
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:29
Look, it doesn't matter one damn bit who the President is. When we levy the staggering amount of laws and taxes on business, it's no wonder they move out of state. It's too hard to do business here, as compared to Arizona and Nevada.

I don't think it has much to do with it, either. That was kind of my point.
Christmahanikwanzikah
20-01-2009, 04:29
For the record, that's entirely SoCal's fault. If we split the state near Salinas we'd do fine up here with the Hetch Hetchy.

The MWD cut by 35% the amount of water from NorCal. Most of what we get is from the Colorado.
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:31
If California didn't go through this IOU thing every other year or so, I'd panic. But the truth is our legislature does this a lot. They're required to have a budget by a certain time or everything freezes, and the push it every time. There's always these histrionics to get people panicy and behind whatever solution the person pulling them wants. I'm too tired right now to look into it, but I've little doubt there's some version of the budget that the controller wants that will make it 'all better.'

Word.

In more positive news, John Chiang just sent me back money for a bunch of doctor's appointments, so I'm cool with him at the moment.
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:36
Sometimes?


Besides, Im sure if everyone stopped recieving their money from whoever was giving it to them, only the welfare recipients would riot. Everyone else, you know, those "winners" with jobs who are applying themselves, would remain calm.

We all know only the poor, lazy, dirty jobless riot.

Yeah, the teacher's union isn't going to send up a fuss at all.

>_>

<_<

Luckily, my district already has its budget planned out for this year so we all get our paychecks, so I won't get kicked in the balls til next year.
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:40
The MWD cut by 35% the amount of water from NorCal. Most of what we get is from the Colorado.

Never in a drought, though, are you, fuckers? :mad:
Ancient and Holy Terra
20-01-2009, 04:42
For the record, that's entirely SoCal's fault. If we split the state near Salinas we'd do fine up here with the Hetch Hetchy.That is one impressive dam.

Of course, I had the chance to take a tour of the Three Gorges Dam in China before they completed it, and the scale of that thing is mind-boggling.
Neo Art
20-01-2009, 04:42
so I won't get kicked in the balls

hmmmm
Christmahanikwanzikah
20-01-2009, 04:43
Never in a drought, though, are you, fuckers? :mad:

Heh. We're always in a drought. SCAG (SoCal Assoc. of Governments) has really cut down on water consumption and has given the police authority to back it up.

That said, the Colorado River isn't exactly a bad water supply. :D
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:58
Heh. We're always in a drought. SCAG (SoCal Assoc. of Governments) has really cut down on water consumption and has given the police authority to back it up.

That said, the Colorado River isn't exactly a bad water supply. :D

Okay, I grant that things might have changed a bit recently. I also grant that I might still be bitter about spending most of my formative years "in a drought" when my cousins in L.A. never were.

You're still water thieves and you know it. Don't make us sell you back to Mexico.
Ryadn
20-01-2009, 04:59
hmmmm

I knew someone would make something of that. I should have figured it'd be you.
Anti-Social Darwinism
20-01-2009, 10:18
Heh. We're always in a drought. SCAG (SoCal Assoc. of Governments) has really cut down on water consumption and has given the police authority to back it up.

That said, the Colorado River isn't exactly a bad water supply. :D

And if I've heard correctly about Obama's appointment to Interior, Colorado River water may not be a given any more, either.

About bloody time, SoCal has always outstripped the available water and then tried to compensate by looting Northern California and other states.
Cameroi
20-01-2009, 10:27
this is, believe it or not, another 'old news' thread.

california "goes broke" EVERY budgitary session. we then issue 'warrents', which are just like checks, except the're not, exactly, because the're not a promise to pay, but a promise that they will be replaced by a promise to pay once a budget is passed.

don't ask me. of course politics is insane. isn't that why we're here?
Pepe Dominguez
20-01-2009, 10:29
I was just in La Jolla the other day. Hard times.

The steakhouses are really cutting back. Ran out of Porterhouse. And the police didn't even go out of their way to harass us as we left a liquor store. Hard times, indeed.

Slumming it, were you? :D

And if I've heard correctly about Obama's appointment to Interior, Colorado River water may not be a given any more, either.

About bloody time, SoCal has always outstripped the available water and then tried to compensate by looting Northern California and other states.

The real crime is, we only let 10% flow in to Mexico. And even that is only because we were forced to.
Christmahanikwanzikah
20-01-2009, 10:31
And if I've heard correctly about Obama's appointment to Interior, Colorado River water may not be a given any more, either.

About bloody time, SoCal has always outstripped the available water and then tried to compensate by looting Northern California and other states.

Good luck. There will most certainly be hard lobbying by all state representatives in both houses of Congress, along with legislators and the governor, to offset any water blockades attempted on the region by the Federal Government. The reason being the region is, more or less, the economic heart and soul of California. The port in Long Beach is one of the biggest on Earth and, along with major businesses in the metropolitan Los Angeles area, Hollywood is the entertainment (read: money) capital of the state, country and (possibly) hemisphere.

If anything, such a push would probably be accompanied by large government subsidation and advocation of desalination plants, rather than a reduction of use in already prevalent water sources and an overhauling of the water infrastructure not seen since the early 20th century in Los Angeles.
Trilateral Commission
20-01-2009, 17:04
deleted, wrong thread
greed and death
20-01-2009, 17:12
California going insolvent is what happens when people can force changed to the tax rate and force spending as a ballot initiative.
not really either of the parties fault. Just the the fault of the teeming masses that want as much as they can get from the government but don't want to pay taxes.