NationStates Jolt Archive

Who do you think will win the Superbowl between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Arizona Cardinals?


Im going with the Steelers on this one, theyre a solid team, and I like them, lol....and Arizona is inconsistent and i believe its rare for a team to win on their first SuperBowl appearance...just imo though...

Whats yours?

Steelers. Cos if my colleague sees I said anything else he'll never let me forget it.

Cardinals. I might live in PA but I hold no allegiance to any team and I am sick of seeing the same 3 football teams (Steelers, Patritots, and Colts) winning every football game. I am also sick of all the superbowl crap, the pittsburgh steelers are gods bs, and the damn annoying songs I am forced to play every 20 minutes as a radio DJ.

I hope its 101-0 Cardninals.

the noodles always win, whether its pork, chicken or beef.

Steelers. Though I have great respect for the Cardinals, if for nothing else but that I still thing of them as Pat Tilman's team. I met him in Afghanistan before he died.

Meh, I don't care, my team had Superbowl Potential, but they got too cocky.

Please God make the Steelers lose.

I'd be happy either way. I lived in Pittsburgh for years, still have a lot of friends there. Shortly after I moved there, the Steelers won the Super Bowl and I saw a quirky late-night celebration: a housewife in bathrobe and hair curlers came outside to bang garbage can lids together, that sort of thing.
On the other hand, the Cardinals are the Lions' only serious rival for long-term NFL futility. Seeing them finally take it all, the same year the Lions went 0-16, has a kind of poetic justice to it.

On the other hand, the Cardinals are the Lions' only serious rival for long-term NFL futility.

Idk, I think New Orleans may have squandered the last vestiges of the hope they had after the '06 season...

I fear Drew Brees will be another Archie Manning...Awesome Player with a Good Team....

But in a Division too tough to really get anywhere in...

Steelers. As much as I would want the Cardinals to have their first Superbowl win, I just don't see it happening.

I can't wait until I eat those words...*ponders Pats vs. Giants*

Then again, would I want the Steelers to be the sole leader in number of Superbowl wins?...Right now, Cowboys and Steelers are tied at 5...Being a Cowboys fan, I SHOULD be rooting for the Cardinals...

Yes, I know, Cowboys didn't do so hot this year...

Hey, has anyone heard any updates on McGahee? He might as well have run into an 18-wheeler on the highway. All I've seen is "Neck" under the injury report, but is there anything more specific?

'Inadvertently'-exposed nipples always win the Super Bowl.

Cardinals. Fitzgerald is playing like a relative's life hangs on every game. It's fun to watch. Warner has been there before. Pittsburgh's offense is anemic, and Arizona's defense, while not Ravens-like, did a good job of keeping ahead of Philadelphia.

Also nice to see that the Steelers have once again greased the NFL's officiating corps.

As a life long Steelers fan, you can bet I am rooting for them all the way. 6 rings baby. 6 rings!

Since neither the Packers or the Jets made it this year, I don't really care. If I were forced to choose, I'd go for the Steelers.

I'm definitely rooting for the Cards, growing up in AZ has been hard since they came to town and it'd be nice to see them go all the way.

Cardinals. I've picked against them three times in the playoff, I've learnt my lesson.

Arizona, because they have an Australian player.

Cardinals for sure.

No doubt the Cardinals will win.

God promised it to Kurt Warner, didn't you know?

Arizona, because they have an Australian player.
And we all know just how good Australia is at American silly ball, don't we?

Arizona was on fire las night. So Im gonna go with them.

That, and I hate Ben Rofl-Burger.

Steelers!

Cardinals. I might live in PA but I hold no allegiance to any team and I am sick of seeing the same 3 football teams (Steelers, Patritots, and Colts) winning every football game. I am also sick of all the superbowl crap, the pittsburgh steelers are gods bs, and the damn annoying songs I am forced to play every 20 minutes as a radio DJ.

I hope its 101-0 Cardninals.Think of the boost to the local economy a Steelers win will produce.

Also nice to see that the Steelers have once again greased the NFL's officiating corps.Lol.

Also nice to see that the Steelers have once again greased the NFL's officiating corps.

By greased, hopefully you mean that they were butt raped by the officials in the game last night. I nearly had a head asplosion because of those refs.

Steelers!:fluffle:


Think of the boost to the local economy a Steelers win will produce.

I know I will be buying lots of Steelers gear in the next two weeks. But with the eventual win coming, I will buy a lot more. :D

By greased, hopefully you mean that they were butt raped by the officials in the game last night. I nearly had a head asplosion because of those refs.

So, you're telling me that anyone "roughed" punter Mitch Berger on a call that prolonged a Steelers scoring drive? I understand fan loyalty, but even fans had to be embarrassed at how badly that call was blown.

No, the Steelers are very rarely on the wrong side of an ass-raping by referees.

No, the Steelers are very rarely on the wrong side of an ass-raping by referees.

True, remember the Immaculate Reception? The ball hit Frenchy in the head, damn it! :mad:

And we all know just how good Australia is at American silly ball, don't we?

Actually I hear it has alot in Common...

Although theres so little action with the foot in American Football...I have no Idea why we still call it that...I think we should call it something like 'Gridiron Ball' or something...

No, the Steelers are very rarely on the wrong side of an ass-raping by referees.How many Steelers games have you seen?

Actually I hear it has alot in Common...

Although theres so little action with the foot in American Football...I have no Idea why we still call it that...I think we should call it something like 'Gridiron Ball' or something...

It's played on foot, which iirc was the origin of the name.

So, you're telling me that anyone "roughed" punter Mitch Berger on a call that prolonged a Steelers scoring drive? I understand fan loyalty, but even fans had to be embarrassed at how badly that call was blown.

No, the Steelers are very rarely on the wrong side of an ass-raping by referees.

And I see you missed how the steelers got a pass interference on McFadden, when he was barely behind the guy and fell into him, while there was no whistle blown for Santonio Holmes when he was screwed by a raven with pass interference. Or how about the face masking that caused a steeler to push a guy down for a "personal foul"? That wasn't called.

But yes, I agree, the Mitch Berger call was a bad one. But you know what? It balanced out the bad calls. :)

Cardinals, because the Steelers can kiss my Broncos-fan ass. Also, for the lulz at the Cardinals winning the Super Bowl.

Idk, I think New Orleans may have squandered the last vestiges of the hope they had after the '06 season...
I was talking LONG-TERM futility. The Lions have only won one (single, solitary) post-season game since their champion team of 1957 (when I could not yet even walk or talk). Before this year, the Cards had only won one post-season game in 60 years. New Orleans hasn't even existed that long.

I was talking LONG-TERM futility. The Lions have only won one (single, solitary) post-season game since their champion team of 1957 (when I could not yet even walk or talk). Before this year, the Cards had only won one post-season game in 60 years. New Orleans hasn't even existed that long.

Numerous Smart Ass jokes there, lol...

But, I see your point, I actually do have high hopes for next year anyway, provided we Revamp the Defense, and Take Bush off the Starting Lineup and replace him with Pierre Thomas...

My Vikings lost. I don't want anyone to win.:mad:

Cardinals, because the Steelers can kiss my Broncos-fan ass. Also, for the lulz at the Cardinals winning the Super Bowl.

If the Cardinals win, I will stop watching the NFL. I'm super cereal about this one. How a team with a 9-7 record can go and win the Championship, you know that thing which determines who is the best in the league, would be beyond my reasoning skills and cause brain damage.

If the Cardinals win, I will stop watching the NFL. I'm super cereal about this one. How a team with a 9-7 record can go and win the Championship, you know that thing which determines who is the best in the league, would be beyond my reasoning skills and cause brain damage.

lolz.

If the Cardinals win, I will stop watching the NFL. I'm super cereal about this one. How a team with a 9-7 record can go and win the Championship, you know that thing which determines who is the best in the league, would be beyond my reasoning skills and cause brain damage.
Forgive my ignorance, but did everyone else in the NFL do worse than 9-7 (I'm assuming that's wins-loses)?

EDIT: Or, as TCT indicates, did they get through a knock-out period in the league?

EDIT 2: Fine... I'll Google it.

*mutters*

EDIT 3: Cheers, Skallvia.

If the Cardinals win, I will stop watching the NFL. I'm super cereal about this one. How a team with a 9-7 record can go and win the Championship, you know that thing which determines who is the best in the league, would be beyond my reasoning skills and cause brain damage.

What part about the concept of playoffs don't you understand?

Forgive my ignorance, but did everyone else in the NFL do worse than 9-7 (I'm assuming that's wins-loses)?

EDIT: Or, as TCT indicates, did they get through a knock-out period in the league?

Nah, there were better ones, the best record was 13-3 I believe with the Tennessee Titans....

But, it was an extremely competitive league this time around...But the teams with the best records out of Each Division made it into the playoffs...and they eliminated one another, it just so happened that the Cardinals beat teams with better records to get where they are...

Nah, there were better ones, the best record was 13-3 I believe with the Tennessee Titans....

But, it was an extremely competitive league this time around...But the teams with the best records out of Each Division made it into the playoffs...and they eliminated one another, it just so happened that the Cardinals beat teams with better records to get where they are...
Ah right. So the Cardinals' division must have been pretty poor this year.

Ta.

What part about the concept of playoffs don't you understand?

I don't think they had that intention in mind in creating it. They wanted the best of the best, to get the best games possible. Who really wants to see a mutt of a team beat out people who have proven all year long that they were the best? Its a bunch of crock, ya know? Perhaps there should be a certain win/loss that needs to be achieved as a minimum in order to be allowed into the playoffs.

Ah right. So the Cardinals' division must have been pretty poor this year.

Ta.

Exactly. They are in the worst conference. Well, actually it might be a toss up between their conference (NFC west) and the AFC west. Western teams seem to suck these days.

I don't think they had that intention in mind in creating it. They wanted the best of the best, to get the best games possible. Who really wants to see a mutt of a team beat out people who have proven all year long that they were the best? Its a bunch of crock, ya know? Perhaps there should be a certain win/loss that needs to be achieved as a minimum in order to be allowed into the playoffs.

If Arizona wins, then clearly they werent a "mutt of a team".

By your logic, its a sham that the Giants beat the Patriots last year.

I don't think they had that intention in mind in creating it. They wanted the best of the best, to get the best games possible. Who really wants to see a mutt of a team beat out people who have proven all year long that they were the best? Its a bunch of crock, ya know? Perhaps there should be a certain win/loss that needs to be achieved as a minimum in order to be allowed into the playoffs.


Meh. So who is "the best" shouldn't be determined by head-to-head competition in playoffs?

You must love the BCS system used in college football.

They wanted the best of the best, to get the best games possible. Who really wants to see a mutt of a team beat out people who have proven all year long that they were the best? Its a bunch of crock, ya know?

But shouldnt these supposedly Awesome teams be able to beat the supposedly crappy Arizona Cardinals when it matters?

You must love the BCS system used in college football.

Hey hey now, dont you dare talk smack about the BCS system...:p

Meh. So who is "the best" shouldn't be determined by head-to-head competition in playoffs?

You must love the BCS system used in college football.

Oh god.....I hate the BCS...I really wish theyd get a Playoff system in the NCAA the voting in the BCS is really biased....

I don't think they had that intention in mind in creating it. They wanted the best of the best, to get the best games possible. Who really wants to see a mutt of a team beat out people who have proven all year long that they were the best? Its a bunch of crock, ya know? Perhaps there should be a certain win/loss that needs to be achieved as a minimum in order to be allowed into the playoffs.


Do you actually know what the Cardinals have done this year?
Try looking at some offensive statistics
Pts: 26.7/game 3rd in the NFL
Yards: 365.8 4th in the NFL

Now they, as one of the best offenses in the league, are going to be pitted against the best defense. A suitable final game methinks.

I want the Cardinals to win, mostly because Larry Fitzgerald deserves a superbowl ring.

Meh. So who is "the best" shouldn't be determined by head-to-head competition in playoffs?

You must love the BCS system used in college football.

Not quite. I just want to ensure that the best are playing. I mean, what if there had been a team with a losing record that got into the playoffs, and somehow got lucky enough to win the whole thing? That just doesn't feel right. But at the same time, the BCS system is not a good deal because it deals with fan rankings and polls for a say in it. The best system is a playoff system which has a big barrier to cross. You don't want just any old team to compete in it and win. A 9-7 record shows that the Cardinals didn't work as hard in the regular season as say a 13-3 titans, 12-4 Steelers, etc. So why should the team that works less be rewarded with a chance to sneak into a championship? Its not very logical, nor honest.

Meh, I don't care, my team had Superbowl Potential, but they got too cocky.

My team was the same way. Was it Carolina? Honestly I wish somebody interesting like the browns or green bay would make it.

Red Socks

Not quite. I just want to ensure that the best are playing. I mean, what if there had been a team with a losing record that got into the playoffs, and somehow got lucky enough to win the whole thing? That just doesn't feel right. But at the same time, the BCS system is not a good deal because it deals with fan rankings and polls for a say in it. The best system is a playoff system which has a big barrier to cross. You don't want just any old team to compete in it and win. A 9-7 record shows that the Cardinals didn't work as hard in the regular season as say a 13-3 titans, 12-4 Steelers, etc. So why should the team that works less be rewarded with a chance to sneak into a championship? Its not very logical, nor honest.

Given teams have variable schedules there's a crapshoot element to it anyway. If you want a definitive 'best over the season' then set up a round robin and do it that way. Otherwise accept that these things happen and teams that come good at the end of the season might win over those who've been more consistent.

Do you actually know what the Cardinals have done this year?
Try looking at some offensive statistics
Pts: 26.7/game 3rd in the NFL
Yards: 365.8 4th in the NFL

Now they, as one of the best offenses in the league, are going to be pitted against the best defense. A suitable final game methinks.

I want the Cardinals to win, mostly because Larry Fitzgerald deserves a superbowl ring.

That could be misleading about their offense. Look at who they played all season long. Their division rivals were among the worst in the NFL. Heck, even the Steelers had a bit of a challenge by having the Ravens in the same division. And when you look at their losses, look at how badly they lost. For example, 47-7 against the Pats, or 56-35 against the Jets.

Nah, there were better ones, the best record was 13-3 I believe with the Tennessee Titans....

But, it was an extremely competitive league this time around...But the teams with the best records out of Each Division made it into the playoffs...and they eliminated one another, it just so happened that the Cardinals beat teams with better records to get where they are...

True. Just because a team was good all season doesn't mean they should be handed a championship. They team that wants to be the champion should have to work all the way to the end.

Not quite. I just want to ensure that the best are playing. I mean, what if there had been a team with a losing record that got into the playoffs, and somehow got lucky enough to win the whole thing? That just doesn't feel right. But at the same time, the BCS system is not a good deal because it deals with fan rankings and polls for a say in it. The best system is a playoff system which has a big barrier to cross. You don't want just any old team to compete in it and win. A 9-7 record shows that the Cardinals didn't work as hard in the regular season as say a 13-3 titans, 12-4 Steelers, etc. So why should the team that works less be rewarded with a chance to sneak into a championship? Its not very logical, nor honest.

Um. The NFL playoff system is a power-protect competition with built in advantages for regular season achievements.

The Titans, Steelers, Giants, and Panthers all got a first-round bye and homefield advantage when they did play.

Arizona is now 12-7 and will play the 14-4 Steelers. Where is the dishonesty or lack of logic in that?

EDIT: For those not familiar with the NFL here are the regular season standings by division (http://www.nfl.com/standings) and the playoff results (http://www.nfl.com/schedules?seasonType=POST#Week).

My team was the same way. Was it Carolina? Honestly I wish somebody interesting like the browns or green bay would make it.

In all honesty, your Panthers might have won had Mr. Delhomme stopped from turning it over 6 times in a game. They will do much better next year, i can imagine. As for GB, give Aaron Rodgers a few years. Once he gets into the groove of things he will lead the teams to the playoffs. Hard to say if it will be a superbowl winning team, but at least get to the playoffs once maturity sets in.

In all honesty, your Panthers might have won had Mr. Delhomme stopped from turning it over 6 times in a game. They will do much better next year, i can imagine. As for GB, give Aaron Rodgers a few years. Once he gets into the groove of things he will lead the teams to the playoffs. Hard to say if it will be a superbowl winning team, but at least get to the playoffs once maturity sets in.

That whole game against arizona was infuriating. But atleast the pats didn't make the playoffs.

The Titans, Steelers, Giants, and Panthers all got a first-round bye and homefield advantage when they did play. First round bye isn't always a good thing. It often hinders teams, because players get out of whack with the game with that week off. Many teams with first round byes have failed to win their playoff game that came next. But, I will give the home field advantage to you. That is a perk, until you get to the super bowl, then it matters not.


Arizona is now 12-7 and will play the 14-4 Steelers. Where is the dishonesty or lack of logic in that?

When you have almost as many loses as you do wins in a season, which is 17 weeks long, why should you be able to compete for the league Championship? That is what feels dishonest about it. You have one team which has worked its ass off all season long, and another which has gotten lucky by being in a crappy division. But, I will say this much. If the Cardinals do win the bowl, I will congratulate them as the better team, of that game. I might be depressed for a few weeks though. :p

That could be misleading about their offense. Look at who they played all season long. Their division rivals were among the worst in the NFL. Heck, even the Steelers had a bit of a challenge by having the Ravens in the same division. And when you look at their losses, look at how badly they lost. For example, 47-7 against the Pats, or 56-35 against the Jets.

Look at who they played. Not just the teams in their division. They played:

1 Sep 07 ARI 23 @ SF 13
2 Sep 14 MIA 10 @ ARI 31
3 Sep 21 ARI 17 @ WAS 24
4 Sep 28 ARI 35 @ NYJ 56
5 Oct 05 BUF 17 @ ARI 41
6 Oct 12 DAL 24 @ ARI 30
7 Bye
8 Oct 26 ARI 23 @ CAR 27
9 Nov 02 ARI 34 @ STL 13
10 Nov 10 SF 24 @ ARI 29
11 Nov 16 ARI 26 @ SEA 20
12 Nov 23 NYG 37 @ ARI 29
13 Nov 27 ARI 20 @ PHI 48
14 Dec 07 STL 10 @ ARI 34
15 Dec 14 MIN 35 @ ARI 14
16 Dec 21 ARI 7 @ NE 47
17 Dec 28 SEA 21 @ ARI 34

Not the easiest schedule in the world, not the hardest either, true. But in these 16 games there are at least 8 that were against playoff calibre teams at the time they were played (Dallas was when Dallas were still seen as one of the favorites).

Not so easy to put them down. The weakness of the Cardinal was the defense, but that has come together in the post season, making them a real threat now.

But in these 16 games there are at least 8 that were against playoff calibre teams
And they lost 75% of those games.

Hey I say if the Cardinals made it its because they were determined and their team was good enough. If some of the other teams didn't play their best along they way then so be it. The system is not flawed and the Cardinals are the best team from the NFC to go.

Who do you think will win the Superbowl between the Pittsburgh Steelers and the Arizona Cardinals?


Im going with the Steelers on this one, theyre a solid team, and I like them, lol....and Arizona is inconsistent and i believe its rare for a team to win on their first SuperBowl appearance...just imo though...

Whats yours?
GO...................KURT!!!!!!

The comeback king!!

And they lost 75% of those games.

AB Again was disputing the idea that Arizona's offensive statistics were necessarily deceptive because they allegedly had an "easy" schedule.

Your point has its merits, but not as a rebuttal to what AB Again was saying.

First round bye isn't always a good thing. It often hinders teams, because players get out of whack with the game with that week off. Many teams with first round byes have failed to win their playoff game that came next. But, I will give the home field advantage to you. That is a perk, until you get to the super bowl, then it matters not.

When you have almost as many loses as you do wins in a season, which is 17 weeks long, why should you be able to compete for the league Championship? That is what feels dishonest about it. You have one team which has worked its ass off all season long, and another which has gotten lucky by being in a crappy division. But, I will say this much. If the Cardinals do win the bowl, I will congratulate them as the better team, of that game. I might be depressed for a few weeks though. :p

Those grapes are might sour, I reckon. :wink:

And they lost 75% of those games.
And so far, they have won 100% of the games that matter!! :)

So, I totally had a friend tell me last night that the Cardinals will win because they are God's team. I was like, "really? He doesn't have a better taste in teams than that one?" Just goes to show that people always root for the underdogs.

The only time I can remember rooting for an underdog though was last year, but only because I LOATHE the Patriots.

And they lost 75% of those games.

That doesn't mean that their offense was bad in those games. They still finished the season second in points scored playing against a lot tougher opposition than their admittedly weak division

Their problem was their defense, as I noted. However in the playoffs their defense seems to have got it together at last, or at least enough together to allow their phenomenal offense a chance to win.

What will be interesting in the superbowl is the it will be strength against strength and weakness against weakness. The Cards O vs the Steelers D will be fireworks, the Steelers O vs the Cards D is likely to be comical

AB Again was disputing the idea that Arizona's offensive statistics were necessarily deceptive because they allegedly had an "easy" schedule.

Your point has its merits, but not as a rebuttal to what AB Again was saying.To determine whether that is so, we would need to see a breakdown between their offensive stats in the 8 "playoff-caliber" games vs. the stats in the 8 "easy" games.

If a team works hard all season and then loses to a supposedly weaker team can you really say they were the better team?

So, I totally had a friend tell me last night that the Cardinals will win because they are God's team. I was like, "really? He doesn't have a better taste in teams than that one?" Just goes to show that people always root for the underdogs.

The only time I can remember rooting for an underdog though was last year, but only because I LOATHE the Patriots.

I guess whether or not we think the cards deserve to go to the superbowl we can all come together and celebrate the fact that the Patriots didn't even make it.

GO...................KURT!!!!!!

The comeback king!!

The guy has a great story. Seems to be just an average guy that can relate to a lot of fans. It will be great to see him win again.

To determine whether that is so, we would need to see a breakdown between their offensive stats in the 8 "playoff-caliber" games vs. the stats in the 8 "easy" games.

And, if we go down that road, one would need to do the same with every team being compared to the Cardinals. (Which leads to an endless regression. :eek:)

Maybe we could just have playoffs instead? :wink:

EDIT: Is someone from Detroit competent to speak about football excellence?:p:D

I guess whether or not we think the cards deserve to go to the superbowl we can all come together and celebrate the fact that the Patriots didn't even make it.

Amen.

get this: there are people who think that sports rps are taking over. Do any of you think that?

I guess whether or not we think the cards deserve to go to the superbowl we can all come together and celebrate the fact that the Patriots didn't even make it.

This^^

And, if we go down that road, one would need to do the same with every team being compared to the Cardinals. (Which leads to an endless regression. :eek:)

Maybe we could just have playoffs instead? :wink:


Honestly, you are completely right. I feel foolish now.

I was just trying to make up an excuse in case my team lost. :p

The guy has a great story. Seems to be just an average guy that can relate to a lot of fans. It will be great to see him win again.
I love the guy....sure is great seeing him rise to the challenge once more!!!!

I love the guy....sure is great seeing him rise to the challenge once more!!!!

Actually, I can't stand him. But his team earned their Superbowl berth.

I'm shocked that this thread hasn't disintegrated into an argument about how football players are pussies compared to rugby players. The hit on Willis McGahee last night should dispel that. And if you remember his college career that's not the worst hit he's taken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9-KkUH8yt8

I'm shocked that this thread hasn't disintegrated into an argument about how football players are pussies compared to rugby players. The hit on Willis McGahee last night should dispel that. And if you remember his college career that's not the worst hit he's taken:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9-KkUH8yt8

I was scared for him for a moment. I though that he had AT LEAST broken his neck. He didn't move for a few moments. It was rather scary. But I bet he will be feeling that one for a while. :D

I was scared for him for a moment. I though that he had AT LEAST broken his neck. He didn't move for a few moments. It was rather scary. But I bet he will be feeling that one for a while. :D
The way he immediately and involuntarily dropped the ball and then the position of his hands was pretty scary.

But shouldnt these supposedly Awesome teams be able to beat the supposedly crappy Arizona Cardinals when it matters?

This.

I'm rooting for the Cardinals. I don't want the Steelers to be the first team with six Superbowl victories. They need to stay tied with the 49ers and Cowboys so none of those teams fans can hold it over the rest of the NFL.

I got to go for the homestate favorite...Steelers. My eagles didn't make it, so I hope the Cards are just spanked across that field.

And we all know just how good Australia is at American silly ball, don't we?

Have you ever seen a "punt" in Australian football?

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9J0kJKPOc74

Those aren't even good ones, really.

I really really want the Cardinals, but I don't think it'll happen. It doesn't really matter though, cause '09/'10 is the season of the Dolphins!!!

Boy oh boy, '10 looks weird. 2010. Futuristic!

AZ, because Kurt Warner + Larry Fitzgerald is almost as awesome as Kurt Warner + Marshall Faulk.