NationStates Jolt Archive

For my 800th post I wanted to tell a bit of a story about how I was so careful to avoid conforming to the majority I kinda conformed to whatever I'd think would be the "opposite" of it, since it's a lesson that I'd like to think others could learn from, even if that sounds like projection on my part.

In middle school, and most of high school, I practically made myself think almost everyone (except for my teachers and my few friends) was out to trick me, based on only a few things from elementary. The first to come to mind is in grade 6, when some people in the class took things from a substitute teacher's purse, put the stuff on my desk as she came in, to make it look like I did it. My memory of that is fuzzy, but I don't remember anyone in the class saying I didn't and I assumed this had to mean that EVERYONE in the class was either part of it or all secretly talking when I wasn't around about how to upset me, for whatever reason... this is an example I've probably used a few other times on this site, (and still will continue to) and it isn't the only example; it's during things like this when I'd make myself assume the worst, because I figured I'd rather risk not being open to friendliness than risk getting embarassed by the rest of the crowd who could make me look like some kind of idiot for even trusting them.

On top of that, not wanting to be like the "majority" (which I had a kinda generic idea of, and again, didn't include teachers) I tried to make myself act like some kind of "opposite of the crowd" and avoid conforming in what I should've known was a superficial way; in things like popular culture and entertainment I'd try to make myself like popular things less, and when I already liked something and knew it was popular, I'd try to make myself think it wasn't. The more I'd try "popular" things and find myself glad I did (ie. Zelda games, 2pac rap) the more appealing I'd find the idea of common ground with "the majority"; not so much that certain things in entertainment were so crucial to not miss out on (I miss out on entertainment things all the time) but that if that's what would be the case there, I wondered what in the bigger picture I'd have missed out on through the way I made myself look at things. For example, in grade 7, I was nominated for student council representative, yet I turned down the nomination because I wondered if it was some kind of trick to embarass me. I didn't say much about it, but someone in the class was saying they would've voted for me; I assumed it had to be BS, since that was one of the people in the classroom in the example I mentioned earlier.

I was so careful to avoid wishful thinking, I made myself be cynical... well, at least about particular social things at school. So careful to avoid following the crowd, I followed whatever I thought was the opposite.

My thinking changed towards the end of high school though. One day towards the end of grade 12 as I found myself getting into MSN, I asked various people for their MSN names and they passed the paper around, giving back quite a list of names. It made me feel welcome, even if only for online conversations. That afternoon I noticed one of them sent a message along the lines of "if we ever made fun of you in a way you felt hurt by, just want you to know we didn't mean any harm"; moments like that really made me look at things differently.

During my first year of university, a couple things drove the point home. During high-school I was more of an obedient type who would for the most part get my homework done and get good grades, etc... yet during university I found myself acting quite different, fell into the habit of putting things off. I was more like what I used to percieve "the majority" as being; except that by then, "the majority" seemed to be more like what I used to be, probably because it wasn't quite of the same people. Aside from that role reversal, the kinds of things I learned about also drove the point home. First-year psychology, especially, mentioned such things as the bystander effect, which gave a new way to look at certain bad memories, (such as in my example, perhaps others not feeling inclined to jump in if they expected others to) and know that the appealing idea that they were a case of common ground with the "crowd" wasn't just wishful thinking; it was grounded in science.

Conformity isn't just that to the majority. It can be to whatever one makes oneself think is the opposite of the majority. Either way, it can make people less inclined to be themselves, whatever "themselves" would be. I guess that should be an obvious lesson, but I doubt it's the only one, and I think there's even bigger lessons to be learned here; I'm just not quite sure what...

so your still butthurt about the sub thing and thus refuse to trust anyone :p

also haven't you done anti-culture in psychology yet?

edit: HS when you wiki that you get a record label from Northampton (there are no records labels in Northampton.)

"reverse conformity" is not a good phrase for this.

its not paranoia but perhaps an unreasonable level of suspicion.

tl; dr :p

But seriously. The lesson to learn is that "conformity" isn't something to strive for or to avoid. If what you like happens to match up to the majority, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine. Just like what you like; do what you enjoy doing. Anything else is giving others the ability to dictate your actions, which causes you to miss out on a lot of cool shit.

Also, yeah, I do think you are a bit too suspicious of others. Yeah, a lot of people are assholes, but most people aren't actively out to screw you specifically.

The group of people that you were surrounded by at school were at odds with your personal beliefs at the time...i.e. hard work and good grades, so at university you met more people who presumably had to work hard and get good grades therefore they would be like you...so in a sense you;ve met people you enjoy being with and as a result will be more willing to conform to their rules or norms. This is probably a good thing, you've found people like yourself i'm guessing.

People will usually fit into another group after school.
Of course there are exceptions, but there's always exceptions to just about everything. Kind of an unspoken automatic thing.

Also, yeah, I do think you are a bit too suspicious of others. Yeah, a lot of people are assholes, but most people aren't actively out to screw you specifically.

Yeah, almost anyone will do.

Oh wait I'm missing something arent I?

Oh wait I'm missing something arent I?

that the whole world is just figment of your imagination and we all really are trying to screw you over?

that the whole world is just figment of your imagination and we all really are trying to screw you over?

huh, and i thought it was me being screwed over...well looks like you found someone better than me didn't you? i hope you're happy.
men eh?

that the whole world is just figment of your imagination and we all really are trying to screw you over?

I think you are missing something too.

My post was a sexual innuendo... <.< >.>

huh, and i thought it was me being screwed over...well looks like you found someone better than me didn't you? i hope you're happy.

your just a practice person, why else would children hate you so much? :tongue:

I think you are missing something too.

thats what we wanted you to beleive!...wait...

edit:

My post was a sexual innuendo... <.< >.>

okay my post just become incredibly naughty to the level of "omg MHIJ is going to kill me" :o

so your still butthurt about the sub thing and thus refuse to trust anyone :p
No, I was actually saying that I USED to be that way, and my point was that I'm NOT so much that way NOW. Besides, it wasn't just about that one incident, but incidents LIKE THAT in which it felt like everyone was against me. I think you've really misinterpreted what I was saying.

also haven't you done anti-culture in psychology yet?
Hmm? I'm not even a psychology major, actually... though I might switch to it seeing as how I'm not even sure what to major in yet.

edit: HS when you wiki that you get a record label from Northampton (there are no records labels in Northampton.)
... what?

tl; dr :p

But seriously. The lesson to learn is that "conformity" isn't something to strive for or to avoid. If what you like happens to match up to the majority, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine. Just like what you like; do what you enjoy doing. Anything else is giving others the ability to dictate your actions, which causes you to miss out on a lot of cool shit.

Also, yeah, I do think you are a bit too suspicious of others. Yeah, a lot of people are assholes, but most people aren't actively out to screw you specifically.
Yeah, that's pretty much the message I was trying to communicate.

That said, the impression I got wasn't so much that they were after me specifically but that the rest of the "crowd" singled out one person for them all to humiliate, and that it arbitrarily happened to be me... but as I said I now don't think it's the case. Still though, I'm inclined to guess that kind of thing is sometimes the case for some people...

Either way, it can make people less inclined to be themselves, whatever "themselves" would be.
You can't "be" yourself. Or, rather, you can't not be yourself, so specifically trying to be yourself, or advising someone else to be themselves, is like trying to exist. There is no such thing as individual destiny, there is nothing "within you" that wasn't put there by someone, or something, else.
That doesn't mean you can't have fun. Quit worrying about everyone being out to get you, and devote that effort to figuring out how to get them first.

You can't "be" yourself. Or, rather, you can't not be yourself, so specifically trying to be yourself, or advising someone else to be themselves, is like trying to exist. There is no such thing as individual destiny, there is nothing "within you" that wasn't put there by someone, or something, else.
That doesn't mean you can't have fun. Quit worrying about everyone being out to get you, and devote that effort to figuring out how to get them first.
Actually, my point was that I USED to worry like that, DON'T now, (at least not much) and was suggesting it was a lesson others could learn. You've gotten it backwards at best. Way to jump to conclusions.

Actually, my point was that I USED to worry like that, DON'T now, (at least not much) and was suggesting it was a lesson others could learn. You've gotten it backwards at best. Way to jump to conclusions.
I didn't jump to conclusions so much as make a desperate grab at what was possibly, maybe the point of a long-winded post.
Lurn 2 edit moar.

For the moment, why don't you try to, in one sentence, state the entire argument of the OP. It may be a compound sentence, but it may have no more than three clauses (subordinate or independent).

I didn't jump to conclusions so much as make a desperate grab at what was possibly, maybe the point of a long-winded post.
Lurn 2 edit moar.

For the moment, why don't you try to, in one sentence, state the entire argument of the OP. It may be a compound sentence, but it may have no more than three clauses (subordinate or independent).
Couldn't you have, well, ASKED what I meant before ASSUMING it?

But whatever, my point was that sometimes being so careful to avoid conforming to the crowd one might end up conforming to their own arbitrary standards set to avoid that.

Couldn't you have, well, ASKED what I meant before ASSUMING it?

But whatever, my point was that sometimes being so careful to avoid conforming to the crowd one might end up conforming to their own arbitrary standards set to avoid that.

Explain in further details you baby seal killer! :mad:


Just kidding. I'm a Newfoundlander myself.Goes to show no matter where you go. You ALWAYS meet another Newofundlander their.

Eh...conformity was never an option for me. The majority of people at school adopted a clear attitude of "you're weird, we don't like you" so it was never an option to be 'normal', if we take that as being accepted by your peers.

I tried up till I was about 15, but it did me no favours. Then I thought "fine, screw the lot of you" and went through my goth phase. Which of course just involved conformity to a constructed group identity. And which was faintly ridiculous, as I'm about as 'dark' as a bag of fluffy kittens. But at the same time, as a group outside of the majority, the people I became friends with weren't caught up with that "you've got to act in a certain way, or we're going to call you gay and give you beatings" (though in retrospect, the bullies and 'cool kids' were mostly spoilt rich kids who'd never have dared get involved in anything that might get them suspended and make daddy angry).

So by adopting the identity of a supposedly 'non-conformist subculture', i.e. by conforming to its dress code and suchlike, I was able to dramatically reduce the amount of 'faking' I had to do on a day to day basis, and as a consequence escaped the trap of trying to be something I was not, and thus in a sense conformed less.

So there's my experiences with conformity and its confusing meaning, since that would appear to be the vague area of the thread. Am I on topic? No idea, I don't have the faintest idea what the point the OP was trying to make was :p

Couldn't you have, well, ASKED what I meant before ASSUMING it?
This way was more fun. For me.
Would you have preferred I just said, "tl;dr."
But whatever, my point was that sometimes being so careful to avoid conforming to the crowd one might end up conforming to their own arbitrary standards set to avoid that.
So my statement that that either of those is an equally valid way of existence, in that they are both arbitrary, wasn't your point at all.

This way was more fun. For me.
Would you have preferred I just said, "tl;dr."
I would have preferred you gave some indication that you weren't sure you understood what I was saying, so that at least I could have known WHY you were jumping to conclusions in the first place.

In other words are you guys saying it ok to be like the majority? That the majority isn't always fake and that always striving not to be like the majority is the worng thing to do? That instead you should be yourself, even if their actually no such thing? So in said you should just follow your morals? Or just have fun if your morals invole not being like the majority because you believe the majortiy is wrong and its not good to be like them? :S

In other words are you guys saying it ok to be like the majority? That the majority isn't always fake and that always striving not to be like the majority is the worng thing to do? That instead you should be yourself, even if their actually no such thing? So in said you should just follow your morals? Or just have fun if your morals invole not being like the majority because you believe the majortiy is wrong and its not good to be like them? :S
I mean that not conforming to the majority doesn't necessarily mean being the opposite of the majority, and that if anything, trying to be the opposite of it would be quite like conformity, and that it's ok to be like the majority when you're similar to it in a way that is for reasons other than just to be like the majority.

I mean that not conforming to the majority doesn't necessarily mean being the opposite of the majority, and that if anything, trying to be the opposite of it would be quite like conformity, and that it's ok to be like the majority when you're similar to it in a way that is for reasons other than just to be like the majority.

So in other words it wrong to conform to something that your only conforming to be different from another group? Thats it not right to conform to any particular group (like gloth,emo,druggie,jocks etc.) just to be a part of that group?

td;dr

It wrong to conform to ANY group at all?

So in other words it wrong to conform to something that your only conforming to be different from another group? Thats it not right to conform to any particular group (like gloth,emo,druggie,jocks etc.) just to be a part of that group?

td;dr

It wrong to conform to ANY group at all?
I'm not sure if morality necessarily enters the equation actually... my point was that avoiding being like the group can be a case of having one kind of conformity to avoid another.

As for "conforming just to be part of the group" it depends on whether or not they find the group appealing. If they don't like the style of the group or whatever and join in just to fit in, that's conformity. But if they do like it and join up, that's another. If they're stuff about the group they like and some stuff they don't like, but are inclined to fit in and are willing to compromise the things they don't like, it's up to them how much of that they compromise.

I'm not sure if morality necessarily enters the equation actually... my point was that avoiding being like the group can be a case of having one kind of conformity to avoid another.

As for "conforming just to be part of the group" it depends on whether or not they find the group appealing. If they don't like the style of the group or whatever and join in just to fit in, that's conformity. But if they do like it and join up, that's another. If they're stuff about the group they like and some stuff they don't like, but are inclined to fit in and are willing to compromise the things they don't like, it's up to them how much of that they compromise.

I see, intresting. Gives me something to think about.


Perhaps we should have a Newfoundland NS meet in a year or two hmm? I think that would be cool even if their only two of us. :fluffle:

Where in Newfoundland do you live? @ Fighter4u

tl; dr :p

But seriously. The lesson to learn is that "conformity" isn't something to strive for or to avoid. If what you like happens to match up to the majority, that's fine. If it doesn't, that's fine. Just like what you like; do what you enjoy doing. Anything else is giving others the ability to dictate your actions, which causes you to miss out on a lot of cool shit.

Also, yeah, I do think you are a bit too suspicious of others. Yeah, a lot of people are assholes, but most people aren't actively out to screw you specifically.

Specifically being the key word.

Where in Newfoundland do you live? @ Fighter4u

Placentia. Those I'm 16(in 3 months) so if we were to have a "NS meet up". I probaby understandably bring a guardian along(easy going guy) who would check you out to make sure you don't kidnap me :P

Placentia. Those I'm 16(in 3 months) so if we were to have a "NS meet up". I probaby understandably bring a guardian along(easy going guy) who would check you out to make sure you don't kidnap me :P
I'm in St. John's; probably not worth it for me to go that far just to meet someone I vaguely know on the Internet. Nice idea, though.

I never really rebelled, but I never actually conformed. I just wore what I wanted and acted like I wanted and never cared what people thought. It started with me getting into a lot of fights before people learned not to mess with the crazy kid who will hit you repeatedly with a chair, and that if you actually started talking to him, he was a good guy and stuck by his friends and helped most everybody.