NationStates Jolt Archive


Hope-I'm-not-bloggy "I'm sorry" thread...

Heikoku 2
18-01-2009, 12:38
I apologize, everyone, for the whole "right about Iraq" issue I showed in these last months.

It didn't come out of malice, or even out of sheer spite, but out of feeling cheated at arguing. And I had a minor epiphany last night and realized that no, I wasn't cheated. My opponent was a fearful military grunt moron who used lower-level appeals - emotion, fear - that WORKED WITH THE CONTEXT, a country paralyzed with fear over mushroom clouds, WMDs and so on. I wasn't in a discussion, I was in an argument, and I am finally able to realize the difference between the two: In a discussion, fallacies are - or would ideally be - hitting below the belt, since you are trying to convince your opponent, whom you regard with at least a modicum of respect. In an argument, nothing is below the belt, because you see your opponent as the evil one, the monster, or the idiot, and you will try to make sure your audience sees the same.

That I mistook the game didn't make my opponent a cheater back then. I had little to zero way to win it, in a situation in which being called anti-American still worked as a way to blacklist your opponent, and in which lots of people were drunk with fear. He won fair and square, manipulating context and low-level appeals that WORKED, and that, yes, in that situation, it was considered a clean fight. Fallacy isn't cheating in an argument. And, for that, I forgive him, let go of this defeat, and apologize to you all for being an asshole about it.

I WAS right about Iraq, but that's besides the point now: If the harsh reality isn't rubbing that in my former opponent's face enough, surely I won't be able to. And if it is, he, a former military grunt, surely can feel that the war he supported is sending service people to their unnecessary deaths.

I also did learn something about lower-level appeals, and, for that, I thank my former opponent - Now I know how to hit below the belt, and can train at it too.

So, that's it, I'm sorry, and, if I bring this up again in another less-nice light (NOT about Iraq but about the ARGUMENT), link me to this post. That's right, folks, I'm giving everyone a free card against me. :p

And yes, I still have my Brobdingnagian pride and ego, I'm still a veritable Asuka Langley Sohryuu of arguing, so, if anyone felt particularly annoyed by the "right about Iraq" thing, they can rest easy in the fact that a post admitting a (clean) defeat at arguing and apologizing on the same breath was none too easy to make. ;)
Mad hatters in jeans
18-01-2009, 13:40
um...yes?
Heikoku 2
18-01-2009, 13:56
um...yes?

YEEEEEES! YES! YES BABY! YES! YES!

*ahem* o_o

Something I can help you with?
Mad hatters in jeans
18-01-2009, 14:02
uh yeah...could you show me a post that outlines the opinion that you're apologising over. i might have missed your opinion on Iraq. oh and who is the opponent?

and i find if i argue in a clear and steady fashion i make better points. (one of my flaws is reading things into the other posters comments that aren't simply there).
I think that's all for now.
Blouman Empire
18-01-2009, 14:04
Dude, I forgot that you may have been right about Iraq.
Heikoku 2
18-01-2009, 14:06
uh yeah...could you show me a post that outlines the opinion that you're apologising over. i might have missed your opinion on Iraq. oh and who is the opponent?

and i find if i argue in a clear and steady fashion i make better points. (one of my flaws is reading things into the other posters comments that aren't simply there).
I think that's all for now.

*Sigh* Several times, I aired my (petty) grievances about an old chatroom series of arguings, and I realize now that he wasn't cheating, I mis-assumed the game I was playing. :p
Ashmoria
18-01-2009, 15:33
good insight.

its well past time that you let it go but yeah, that was pretty much what was happening.

not that i was "there" but i was "here" and that is what got us into iraq. its the only thing that george bush did excellently well. he manipulated our insecurity and fear to get us into a war we didnt need to be in.
No Names Left Damn It
18-01-2009, 15:35
What?
Tagmatium
18-01-2009, 15:39
What?
Yeah, I concurr with that.

What the hell are you on about? Is it a veiled reference to another poster on here, or just a group in general?
Blouman Empire
18-01-2009, 16:15
Yeah, I concurr with that.

What the hell are you on about? Is it a veiled reference to another poster on here, or just a group in general?

Dude, where have you been? It has nothing to do with anyone on this forum but people on some other forum or something which lead to H2 being banned from there forever.
Muravyets
18-01-2009, 16:17
Okay, well, I'm glad that you are finally able to let go of that bit of anger. Hopefully, that will feel much better going forward.

Also, if it helps you give up your habit of constantly reminding us of an argument we were not party to, that will be great, too. :p

However, I do hope you're not going to start using fallacious arguments whenever you decide you're in an argument rather than a discussion. At least, not in NSG.
SaintB
18-01-2009, 16:19
However, I do hope you're not going to start using fallacious arguments whenever you decide you're in an argument rather than a discussion. At least, not in NSG.

Why not? I use them all the time?


To the OP: All is forgotten, so it must also be forgiven.
Tagmatium
18-01-2009, 16:22
Dude, where have you been? It has nothing to do with anyone on this forum but people on some other forum or something which lead to H2 being banned from there forever.
Oh. Right.

I must admit I've missed the background to this blogtastic thread.

And, to be frank, I kind of care little about it, if that is true.

It's just the ranting and somewhat obscure nature of the thread which got me puzzled, since it refers to something that is taken for granted that the rest of NSG is aware of.
Muravyets
18-01-2009, 16:24
Why not? I use them all the time?


To the OP: All is forgotten, so it must also be forgiven.
*reads post* Yeah, you do use fallacies a lot, don't you? ;)
SaintB
18-01-2009, 16:30
*reads post* Yeah, you do use fallacies a lot, don't you? ;)

I'm not as good at it as DI or LG are but I like to toss them around; granted the three of us use them to be funny and not actually argue. I think H2 would be good at it though.