NationStates Jolt Archive

Scientists have found more evidence of possible life on Mars.

NASA announced Thursday that its researchers and university scientists found methane in the Red Planet's atmosphere. The finding suggests biological or geological activity.

NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility and the W.M. Keck telescope showed prisms that separate white light into a rainbow and showed three lines that indicate the presence of methane.

"Methane is quickly destroyed in the Martian atmosphere in a variety of ways, so our discovery of substantial plumes of methane in the northern hemisphere of Mars in 2003 indicates some ongoing process is releasing the gas," Michael Mumma of NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md., said in a statement.

Mumma, who authored a paper on the finding for Science Express, said that Mars releases methane "at a rate comparable to that of the massive hydrocarbon seep at Coal Oil Point in Santa Barbara, Calif." during its northern midsummer."

Methane is the main component of natural gas. Most of the Earth's methane comes from living organisms as they digest nutrients. However, other events, like iron oxidation, can also cause release of the gas.

"Right now, we do not have enough information to tell whether biology or geology -- or both -- is producing the methane on Mars," Mumma explained. "But it does tell us the planet is still alive, at least in a geologic sense. It is as if Mars is challenging us, saying, 'Hey, find out what this means.' "

NASA said that if microscopic organisms produce methane, they are likely far below the surface, where it's warm enough for water to remain in a liquid state. Water, carbon, and energy sources are necessary for all known forms of life.

"On Earth, microorganisms thrive about 1.2 to 1.9 miles beneath the Witwatersrand basin of South Africa, where natural radioactivity splits water molecules into molecular hydrogen and oxygen," Mumma said. "The organisms use the hydrogen for energy. It might be possible for similar organisms to survive for billions of years below the permafrost layer on Mars, where water is liquid, radiation supplies energy, and carbon dioxide provides carbon."

He said that methane could accumulate in similar underground areas before escaping into the atmosphere through pores or fissures that open during warm seasons.

The team said it found methane over the northern hemisphere of Mars, where there's evidence of ancient ground ice or flowing water.

More research is needed to determine whether the methane came from biological or geological sources.



Source. (http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=212901002&cid=iwhome_art_Gover_mostpop)

So do you think there is bacterial life on Mars? Is it geological activity? Or have discovered a Martian Weapons Depot?

s it geological activity? Or have discovered a Martian Weapons Depot?

http://www.chrismasto.com/delicious/images/333


I dont like where this is going...BOMB IMMEDIATELY!!!

Mars farts, and scientists sniff it.

Gotcha. :)

Spirit: "Hey, Opportunity!"
Opportunity: "Yea, what is it?"
Spirit: "Pull my alpha particle X-ray spectrometer..."

http://entimg.msn.com/i/ComicSciFi/MarsAttacks_300x298.jpg

Ack Ack Ac..ACK ACK!

Someone enlighten me again, why is mars red? ,)

Though I would love to be wrong.
Life on mars would give us untold opportunities of study and knowledge.
And one more piece of the puzzle that is life,universe and everything.

Mars farts, and scientists sniff it.Hey, no far cry from differentiating one team member from another now.

Someone enlighten me again, why is mars red? ,)

Though I would love to be wrong.
Life on mars would give us untold opportunities of study and knowledge.
And one more piece of the puzzle that is life,universe and everything.

other events, like iron oxidation, can also cause release of the gas.




Yeah I hope it's not something basic either.

Or have discovered a Martian Weapons Depot?

Would be interesting to see international reaction if that was the case. Not necessarily even a weapons depot. Just signs of artificial structures. Would it renew a space race into seeing who could plunder the ruins first or would it be another big "meh" from the international powers?

Just watch out for the Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator!


http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/5207/martianct0.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dan Quayle was right!

Just watch out for the Illudium Pu-36 Explosive Space Modulator!


*sudden massive nostalgia*

Someone enlighten me again, why is mars red? ,)

They're commies!

I'm going to bet, with the current rate of interest in the life on mars theory, the world will stand up and ask for the doritos before changing the channel.

They're commies!

I'm sorry but that is a dated viewpoint. Mars is obviously Republican.

They're commies!

Ah ,so that´s where Andaras went.

*sudden massive nostalgia*

And remember, they don't like us because we obstruct their view of Venus.

And after all, girls are from Venus. And we can't have that view obstructed.

http://www.gearfuse.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/spirit_mars_cu.jpg

It's Lenin.

Ah ,so that´s where Andaras went.

Well, it is called The Red Planet.

So do you think there is bacterial life on Mars?

Yes, of course there is. "We" brought it there in numerous spacecrafts.

It's a god-awful small affair

Someone enlighten me again, why is mars red? ,)


Mars is red because its soil contins a very high concentration of iron that has oxidized. I imagine that a few million (billion?) years ago Mars was rather dark colored.

mars is red because its soil contins a very high concentration of iron that has oxidized. I imagine that a few million (billion?) years ago mars was rather dark colored.

'"gasp!"' einstein plays on nationstates!

'"gasp!"' einstein plays on nationstates!

Wait until you hear about my theory on relativity!

Wait until you hear about my theory on relativity!

Oh! I cant wait!

mars does NOT have "weapons of mass distruction". just some very fast moving flowers with leggs.

mars does NOT have "weapons of mass distruction".

Well duh, we all know the Martians ships the WMDs into Syria using trucks! :wink:

"Is there life on Mars?" very good David Bowie song and excellent English cop series. We saw it in Australia.

If you Americans and Canadians didn't get it, chase it up and watch it.

If there really are Microscopic Lifeforms on Mars, How are they going to get to it...

The OP says they are deep underground, and they are obviously microscopic....I think itd be very difficult to get a Rover to really do that efficiently...


And what if they defy our traditional definitions of Life...Like Viruses or Prions?....

Yes, of course there is. "We" brought it there in numerous spacecrafts.

No, we didn't. The radiation in the space between Mars and Earth will kill any and all forms of life that exist on earth. It's pretty damn strong.

No, we didn't. The radiation in the space between Mars and Earth will kill any and all forms of life that exist on earth. It's pretty damn strong.

Ah, finally, the expected answer. Another one who believes any myth, as long as it sounds scientifically sound, even though this science is about as ancient as the moon itself. ;)

"Is there life on Mars?" very good David Bowie song and excellent English cop series. We saw it in Australia.

If you Americans and Canadians didn't get it, chase it up and watch it.

The Americans are naturally making their own shitty version of it, just like they did with the Office.

No, we didn't. The radiation in the space between Mars and Earth will kill any and all forms of life that exist on earth. It's pretty damn strong.

False. Send humans to Mars, and the normal radiation would simply lead to a slight increase in your risk of cancer (as usual, my source is Robert Zubrin's Entering Space or The Case for Mars, which I am aware are biased sources, though ones written be a highly qualified expert).

Also, their's the whole Panspermia theory, which deals with the possibility of primitive life spreading between worlds on fragments blasted into space by asteroid or commet impacts. And yes, you can test this theory in a laboratory.

Microbes exist that can survive interplanetary space for long periods of time. Your information is false.

Scientists have found more evidence of possible life on Mars.

NASA announced Thursday that its researchers and university scientists found methane in the Red Planet's atmosphere. The finding suggests biological or geological activity.

The finding actually COULD suggest geological activity, but as for life, it doesn't suggest ANYTHING.

wiki, extraterrestrial methane

Moon - traces are present in the thin atmosphere[23]
Mars - the atmosphere contains 10 ppb methane. In January 2009, NASA scientists announced that they had discovered that the planet regularly vents methane into the atmosphere in specific areas at regular times, leading some to speculate this may be a sign of biological activity going on below the surface.[24]
Jupiter - the atmosphere contains about 0.3% methane
Saturn - the atmosphere contains about 0.4% methane
Iapetus
Titan — the atmosphere contains 1.6% methane[25]
Enceladus - the atmosphere contains 1.7% methane[26]
Uranus - the atmosphere contains 2.3% methane
Ariel - methane is believed to be a constituent of Ariel's surface ice
Miranda
Oberon - about 20% of Oberon's surface ice is composed of methane-related carbon/nitrogen compounds
Titania - about 20% of Titania's surface ice is composed of methane-related organic compounds
Umbriel - methane is a constituent of Umbriel's surface ice
Neptune - the atmosphere contains 1.6% methane
Triton - Triton has a tenuous nitrogen atmosphere with small amounts of methane near the surface.[27][28]
Pluto - spectroscopic analysis of Pluto's surface reveals it to contain traces of methane[29][30]
Charon - methane is believed to be present on Charon, but it is not completely confirmed[31]
Eris - infrared light from the object revealed the presence of methane ice
Comet Halley
Comet Hyakutake - terrestrial observations found ethane and methane in the comet[32]
Extrasolar planet HD 189733b - This is the first detection of an organic compound on planets outside the solar system. It is unknown how it originated, when the high temperature (700°C) favors the formation of carbon monoxide instead. [33]
Interstellar clouds[34]


...

The problem is that methane, while classified as "organic" compound (as almost all carbon compounds), is one of the simplest moleculae that one can form with two of the most abundant elements in space, that is hydrogen and carbon (CH4).

Other extremely simple compounds frequently found in space and on planets which we know are extremely unlikely to host life are water (H2O) and ammonia (NH3)

Other extremely simple compounds frequently found in space and on planets which we know are extremely unlikely to host life are water (H2O) and ammonia (NH3)

Unlikely, maybe, but sometimes you might get the opposite results. Didn't they use to say that undersea volcanic vents were places where life couldn't survive?

I really don't care. I live here.

lets get down to brass tax: when can we colonise and go plunder the planet's natural resources/use it as a big garbage dump?

lets get down to brass tax: when can we colonise and go plunder the planet's natural resources/use it as a big garbage dump?

Not yet but maybe someday.

lets get down to brass tax: when can we colonise and go plunder the planet's natural resources/use it as a big garbage dump?

I'm already finalising a business plan for my Mars Real Estate company! Just because the housing market is terrible here on Earth doesn't mean its bad on Mars.
:tongue:

I'm already finalising a business plan for my Mars Real Estate company! Just because the housing market is terrible here on Earth doesn't mean its bad on Mars.
:tongue:

where can i buy shares? :D

Unlikely, maybe, but sometimes you might get the opposite results. Didn't they use to say that undersea volcanic vents were places where life couldn't survive?

Yea, but so what?
My point is that the presence of methane ALONE doesn't mean anything about the presence of life. I'm not telling that there CANNOT be life on Mars, I'm merely stating that the presence of methane is a poor marker.

Yea, but so what?
My point is that the presence of methane ALONE doesn't mean anything about the presence of life. I'm not telling that there CANNOT be life on Mars, I'm merely stating that the presence of methane is a poor marker.

Fair enough. Although the discovery of disinfectant eating microbes in NASA clean rooms makes me wonder if it's possible that these methane sources are from a colony of bacteria in the early days of Mars exploration years ago.

I would hazard a guess that any bacterial strain that manages to make a go of it in a Martian environment without any form of population control would result in a huge boom in that bacteria in the space of a year.

False. Send humans to Mars, and the normal radiation would simply lead to a slight increase in your risk of cancer (as usual, my source is Robert Zubrin's Entering Space or The Case for Mars, which I am aware are biased sources, though ones written be a highly qualified expert).
Dude, they're in the spaceship and in spacesuits. They're shielded from radiation. Microbes only have the former, and would have to lose it to actually get on Mars.

Also, their's the whole Panspermia theory, which deals with the possibility of primitive life spreading between worlds on fragments blasted into space by asteroid or commet impacts.
Not a theory. A hypothesis at best.

And yes, you can test this theory in a laboratory.
Yes, but not in the way you think. The prerequisite for testing it would be to find extraterrestrial life and look for shared derived characters that would demonstrate common ancestry.

Microbes exist that can survive interplanetary space for long periods of time. Your information is false.
The most radioresistant bacterium is Deinococcus radiodurans. Quick searches suggest that one solar flare will raise the background radiation to levels sufficient to kill it. Solar flares also happen often enough that any given trip to Mars will coincide with at least several.

I'm sorry but that is a dated viewpoint. Mars is obviously Republican.As evidenced by the bountiful absence of intelligent life, barren soil, and inhospitable environment to breathe and survive in unless thoroughly protected against. Even, with the large gusts that bluster across its face when otherwise bereft of density and substance.

As evidenced by the bountiful absence of intelligent life, barren soil, and inhospitable environment to breathe and survive in unless thoroughly protected against. Even, with the large gusts that bluster across its face when otherwise bereft of density and substance.

Also, although we always associate it with Venus, and it works hard to protect that image, it's actually far more interested in Uranus - little known fact that.

Also, although we always associate it with Venus, and it works hard to protect that image, it's actually far more interested in Uranus - little known fact that.For exploitation, to be sure. Not only as a large whirling source of gas, but for what's inside the ring.

I would hazard a guess that any bacterial strain that manages to make a go of it in a Martian environment without any form of population control would result in a huge boom in that bacteria in the space of a year.

Meh. If even terrestrial bacteria manage to get on Mars, I doubt that the martian environment allows for a population boom.

Temperature always below 0°C (186 K min, 268 K max), thin atmosphere (0.03 to 1.2 kPa: Earth is 101 kPa average), no magnetosphere, less than half solar radiation (about 1/2.25), almost no humidity... not the ideal conditions for bacterial spores to resume activity.

As evidenced by the bountiful absence of intelligent life, barren soil, and inhospitable environment to breathe and survive in unless thoroughly protected against. Even, with the large gusts that bluster across its face when otherwise bereft of density and substance.

and this precludes life as we DON'T know it? precisely how?

or even UNDER the martian 'soil'. and how about under the martian ice caps?

not that there HAS to be, or is even likely to, but we can't and don't catigorically KNOW that there isn't.

Meh. If even terrestrial bacteria manage to get on Mars, I doubt that the martian environment allows for a population boom.

Temperature always below 0°C (186 K min, 268 K max), thin atmosphere (0.03 to 1.2 kPa: Earth is 101 kPa average), no magnetosphere, less than half solar radiation (about 1/2.25), almost no humidity... not the ideal conditions for bacterial spores to resume activity.

But that's the thing you see. All it takes is for just a handful of spores to successfully adapt to Martian environment, and providing there's a suitable nutrition source, they'd be able to boom in an environment utterly lacking in competitors. After all, if disinfectant eating bacteria can evolve, why not a Mars adapted bacteria?

But that's the thing you see. All it takes is for just a handful of spores to successfully adapt to Martian environment, and providing there's a suitable nutrition source, they'd be able to boom in an environment utterly lacking in competitors. After all, if disinfectant eating bacteria can evolve, why not a Mars adapted bacteria?

1.Disinfectant are organic, and the bacteria were in a terrestrial environment. Take ethanol (also used as disinfectant!): a poison for most living beings, but many humans can metabolise it.
2.Provided that there's suitable nutrition. That's not an easy assumption.

In short: it is not impossible for terrestrial bacteria to travel to Mars and adapt to life over there... it's just extremely unlikely.

1.Disinfectant are organic, and the bacteria were in a terrestrial environment. Take ethanol (also used as disinfectant!): a poison for most living beings, but many humans can metabolise it.
2.Provided that there's suitable nutrition. That's not an easy assumption.

In short: it is not impossible for terrestrial bacteria to travel to Mars and adapt to life over there... it's just extremely unlikely.

Would have been an interesting way to test to see if Martian environment could support any form of life though. Load up a probe with as many bacteria samples as you can, drop it on Mars, and let it give periodic updates as to how the samples are doing.

Would have been an interesting way to test to see if Martian environment could support any form of life though. Load up a probe with as many bacteria samples as you can, drop it on Mars, and let it give periodic updates as to how the samples are doing.

Well, you just gave me an interesting idea. We could recreate the atmosphere (and the irradiation) of Mars in a lab, and inject bacteria. Then make slight modifications (like adding some water etc) and see how the bacteria react.
This is better than risking a bacterial invasion on Mars, isn't it?

Well, you just gave me an interesting idea. We could recreate the atmosphere (and the irradiation) of Mars in a lab, and inject bacteria. Then make slight modifications (like adding some water etc) and see how the bacteria react.
This is better than risking a bacterial invasion on Mars, isn't it?

Hell no it isn't!?! For the last... god know how many years, it's the Martians who've been invading us. Frying our people with ray guns, sucking them up tubes to perform experiments (damned experiments!), and crashing into our wind turbines. Well I've had enough damnit. Time to give them one back and if that means we've got to start with a little bacteria then so be it! It's our turn to invade!

and this precludes life as we DON'T know it? precisely how?

or even UNDER the martian 'soil'. and how about under the martian ice caps?

not that there HAS to be, or is even likely to, but we can't and don't catigorically KNOW that there isn't.
I was talking about republicans. Not really sure what you're on about.

Well, you just gave me an interesting idea. We could recreate the atmosphere (and the irradiation) of Mars in a lab, and inject bacteria. Then make slight modifications (like adding some water etc) and see how the bacteria react.
This is better than risking a bacterial invasion on Mars, isn't it?

How would you simulate the low gravity and lack of magnetosphere? Still, it's worth a shot. Eventually, we'll have to move off-planet, and finding strains of life suited for hostile environments may be the first step towards changing them.

How would you simulate the low gravity and lack of magnetosphere? Still, it's worth a shot. Eventually, we'll have to move off-planet, and finding strains of life suited for hostile environments may be the first step towards changing them.

Lack of magnetosphere can be simulated by artificial radiation (after all, the biological effects of the magnetic field of Earth are negligible).

As for reduced gravity, only two ways: 1.lab on the Moon (though it would be TOO much reduced), or 2.orbiting lab, rotating on its axis to simulate gravity (so it can be adjusted).

I don't think it would cost too much, but the times would be long to get any result... if any result is to be gotten. Maybe we could try with induced accelerated mutation.

Lack of magnetosphere can be simulated by artificial radiation (after all, the biological effects of the magnetic field of Earth are negligible).

As for reduced gravity, only two ways: 1.lab on the Moon (though it would be TOO much reduced), or 2.orbiting lab, rotating on its axis to simulate gravity (so it can be adjusted).

I don't think it would cost too much, but the times would be long to get any result... if any result is to be gotten. Maybe we could try with induced accelerated mutation.
I don't think that time would be the issue, since many unicellular organisms have generation times of less than an hour (Pseudomonas natriegens, for example, can manage more than 50,000 generations a year). Amongst these organisms with exceptionally short doubling times are a number of extremophiles, and it's been postulated that their short generation times have contributed to them being able to evolve to survive in environments that are hostile to other forms of life.

The sort of space-based laboratory that you describe would indeed be the best way to simulate Martian conditions, but I think it would be the cost of repeatedly resupplying the incubators that would prove prohibitive, not the time that it would take.

Lack of magnetosphere can be simulated by artificial radiation (after all, the biological effects of the magnetic field of Earth are negligible).

As for reduced gravity, only two ways: 1.lab on the Moon (though it would be TOO much reduced), or 2.orbiting lab, rotating on its axis to simulate gravity (so it can be adjusted).

I don't think it would cost too much, but the times would be long to get any result... if any result is to be gotten. Maybe we could try with induced accelerated mutation.

Cost wise, you'd still need to maintain expensive labs, so I don't know if a probe with a one way ticket to Mars would be more expensive. On the bright side, orbital or lunar labs would probably be doing more than just bacteria tests, so it'll probably pay back more than the probe.

If life is sustainable on Mars, I'm kissing this smouldering garbage heap of a planet goodbye

I don't think that time would be the issue, since many unicellular organisms have generation times of less than an hour (Pseudomonas natriegens, for example, can manage more than 50,000 generations a year). ...

Right.


The sort of space-based laboratory that you describe would indeed be the best way to simulate Martian conditions, but I think it would be the cost of repeatedly resupplying the incubators that would prove prohibitive, not the time that it would take.
Maybe it could be possible to attach a simulated-gravity lab module to the ISS.

I could get in touch with dr.Umberto Guidoni (currently MEP for my party, formerly ESA astronaut) and discuss about the idea of a simulated martian environment experiment in the ISS. Anyone wants to collaborate?

I could get in touch with dr.Umberto Guidoni (currently MEP for my party, formerly ESA astronaut) and discuss about the idea of a simulated martian environment experiment in the ISS. Anyone wants to collaborate?

A bunch of NSGians influencing the development of the ISS? A frightening thought. How do we work this out? :p

In either case, I doubt a simulated gravity lab on the ISS will be anything but cheap, even compared to the rest of the modules. You'd have to build a spinning module to simulate the gravity, and that would be somewhat bulky I imagine. Still, very useful once it's up and running for doing low gravity experiments.

A bunch of NSGians influencing the development of the ISS? A frightening thought. How do we work this out? :p

I want an orbital pie launcher!

A bunch of NSGians influencing the development of the ISS? A frightening thought. How do we work this out? :p


I call the party's national HQ, they give me Guidoni's phone. Or I could check with both my almost-father-in-law (vp of the italian science journalists' union) and with my almost-sister-in-law (she interviewed Guidoni for both party and university newspapers).


In either case, I doubt a simulated gravity lab on the ISS will be anything but cheap, even compared to the rest of the modules. You'd have to build a spinning module to simulate the gravity, and that would be somewhat bulky I imagine. Still, very useful once it's up and running for doing low gravity experiments.

Not very cheap, but terribily useful... also if we could make it inhabitable by at least two people, the astronauts could use it to avoid staying all the time in free fall.

They're only working on this now? Come on! David Bowie asked the question DECADES ago!

They're only working on this now? Come on! David Bowie asked the question DECADES ago!

those intervening decades were plagued by a certain degree of politically supported anti-science.

Martians Awesome.

I've seen pictures of them, Miami! They have green caps and jackets, big beards and smoke huge cigars while saying something weird like "Venceremos!"