NationStates Jolt Archive

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090116/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_interrogations

If you put the extra methods in the classified annex,

1. Most people won't have any idea what's still being done.
2. The public version of the document will be sparkly and shiny and happy.
3. Obama will preserve, ultimately, the ability to perform torture under specific circumstances.

For Obama, who repeatedly insisted during the 2008 presidential campaign and the transition period that "America doesn't torture," a classified loophole would allow him to back up his vow to end harsh interrogations while retaining a full range of presidential options in conducting the war against terrorism.

The proposed loophole, which could come in the form of a classified annex to the manual, would satisfy intelligence experts who fear that an outright ban of so-called enhanced interrogation techniques would limit the government in obtaining threat information that could save American lives. It would also preserve Obama's flexibility to authorize any interrogation tactics he might deem necessary for national security.

However, such a move would frustrate Senate Democrats and human rights, retired military and religious groups that have pressed for a government-wide prohibition on methods they describe as torture.

Come back when something actually happens. Could, might, possible are not proof of Obama being teh evil.

Come back when something actually happens. Could, might, possible are not proof of Obama being teh evil.

It's funny that they're seriously discussing it as an option, after his promises.

Interesting. I wonder how much change there will actually be once he gets into office.

Obama will not fulfill all his promises. Some of the liberal left need to realize that, despite all his words, he is basicly a moderate centerist, who will not break the norms for Presidential behaviour or policy. Expect retoric. Do not expect radical reform.

It's funny that they're seriously discussing it as an option, after his promises.

According to anonymous source(s), unidentified Obama "advisers" may have considered an option that might be construed by some as a possible case-by-case "loophole" in a document clearly ending the use of torture and extreme interrogation techniques.

:rolleyes:

According to anonymous source(s), unidentified Obama "advisers" may have considered an option that might be construed by some as a possible case-by-case "loophole" in a document clearly ending the use of torture and extreme interrogation techniques.

:rolleyes:

Mmm Vague

It's funny that they're seriously discussing it as an option, after his promises.
What do you think they're discussing? The full article only says they might be considering reserving a little leeway to allow the CIA to do things that are not in the Army Field Manual, which kind of makes sense, since the CIA is not the Army and often isn't in the "field." It also states that the possible loophole they are considering maybe developing some kind of version of, maybe, would put more control over what the CIA does directly in Obama's hands.

It says absolutely nothing at all about a loophole that would allow the federal government to continue the techniques they've been using under Bush. It says that Obama would hold more -- and more direct -- control over what they do, and since he has stated numerous times that he will not condone torture, and everyone he has nominated for significant cabinet positions so far is vehemently anti-torture, I fail to see how you jump to the conclusion that he's not going to stop torturing prisoners, based on this article.

According to anonymous source(s), unidentified Obama "advisers" may have considered an option that might be construed by some as a possible case-by-case "loophole" in a document clearly ending the use of torture and extreme interrogation techniques.

:rolleyes:
Any port in a storm for those looking for something to bash Obama with before he even takes office, I guess.

I'm agreeing with KoL, I don't know which is worse, the worship of Obama on the left, or the venom spewing of Obama on the right.

Hmm, he may be more divisive than Bush....

It's funny that they're seriously discussing it as an option, after his promises.

So? Some "advisers" aren't Obama. They can say whatever they want, it has not bearing on him.

Any port in a storm for those looking for something to bash Obama with before he even takes office, I guess.

As opposed to those saying how he's the greatest president ever before he even takes office?

I'm agreeing with KoL, I don't know which is worse, the worship of Obama on the left, or the venom spewing of Obama on the right.

Hmm, he may be more divisive than Bush....
When did patience get bred out of the gene pool? He's not even in office until next frigging week! When Bush was first elected, the country was split so completely down the middle, with one half hating his guts with a passion and the other literally worshipping him like the Second Coming, that some people even started talking about the country breaking up over the differences. But look now, eight years later, Americans are united -- in hating Bush.

Give Obama a chance. Give him a minute, at least.

As opposed to those saying how he's the greatest president ever before he even takes office?
Yeah, as opposed to those, who I don't actually see in this thread. Who knows, maybe the rabid Obama lovers will take a break from kissing his ass now that they have "Sully" Sullenberger to kvell over. At least Mr. Sullenberger has actually already done the incredibly nifty thing he's being given credit for.

It's funny that they're seriously discussing it as an option, after his promises.

Once again, the article does not say waht you think it says.

I'm agreeing with KoL

People should say this more often.

As opposed to those saying how he's the greatest president ever before he even takes office?

Well in that case I'm sure these claims are all true :rolleyes: . Or are you just trying to derail the thread?

But look now, eight year's later, Americans are united -- in hating Bush.

Give Obama a chance. Give him a minute, at least.

But look at America now, it's pretty much like the Battle between Yahweh and Lucifer. The left worship Obama like he's the best thing since slice bread. The right act like he's the Anti-Christ that'll turn this country into a Gay Communist Paradise. Meanwhile the moderates are banging their heads against the wall wishing the two sides would shut up for one frickin' minute!

Now if you'll excuse me, there's a spot on the wall with my blood on it, I need to go bang my head against it some more.

I'm agreeing with KoL, I don't know which is worse, the worship of Obama on the left, or the venom spewing of Obama on the right.

Hmm, he may be more divisive than Bush....

Yes, his presidency thus far has really torn the nation appart... :rolleyes:

Yeah, as opposed to those, who I don't actually see in this thread. Who knows, maybe the rabid Obama lovers will take a break from kissing his ass now that they have "Sully" Sullenberger to kvell over. At least Mr. Sullenberger has actually already done the incredibly nifty thing he's being given credit for.

What's that got to do with Obama? One landed a plane and saved lives, one is about to become president.

But look at America now, it's pretty much like the Battle between Yahweh and Lucifer. The left worship Obama like he's the best thing since slice bread. The right act like he's the Anti-Christ that'll turn this country into a Gay Communist Paradise. Meanwhile the moderates are banging their heads against the wall wishing the two sides would shut up for one frickin' minute!

Now if you'll excuse me, there's a spot on the wall with my blood on it, I need to go bang my head against it some more.
You should take a break from that headbanging. Maybe then you'll see how you totally missed the point -- you know, the one about how Bush started out with the country divided over him, but now we're united about him. And Obama starts out with the country divided over him, but if you give a half a fucking chance to even start being the president, who knows but we might get united over him, too, in future. Just like Bush. Do you get it yet?

Sigh.

By the way, the country is not as divided over Obama as it was over Bush.

So this was on topic for what, half a page? Impressive.

What's that got to do with Obama? One landed a plane and saved lives, one is about to become president.
Was there a special at the Missing the Point store today?

One is being hailed as a hero. The other is also being hailed as a hero. One has not actually done anything heroic yet. The other has.

One is being hailed as a hero. The other is also being hailed as a hero. One has not actually done anything heroic yet. The other has.

Oh. Sorry, didn't realise that's what you meant.

So this was on topic for what, half a page? Impressive.
Yes, the topic:

The OP's article does not say what he thinks it does. It does not indicate that Obama is going to lie to the public and condemn torture in front of the cameras while holding out a "loophole" so he can keep on torturing.

-snip-

You know, I think we're saying the same thing we're just missing one another. Here's what I'm sick of, I'm sick of the left and right saying what they say about Obama, and yes as you have correctly pointed out, he hasn't done anything yet! I'm also annoyed by the extremes in which both sides take it.

You know, I think we're saying the same thing we're just missing one another. Here's what I'm sick of, I'm sick of the left and right saying what they say about Obama, and yes as you have correctly pointed out, he hasn't done anything yet! I'm also annoyed by the extremes in which both sides take it.
Okay, fine, that's cool. The bottom line on that is this: He's not president yet. Let's all stop critiquing a presidency that doesn't yet exist.

Also, the OP is wrong.

But look at America now, it's pretty much like the Battle between Yahweh and Lucifer. The left worship Obama like he's the best thing since slice bread. The right act like he's the Anti-Christ that'll turn this country into a Gay Communist Paradise. Meanwhile the moderates are banging their heads against the wall wishing the two sides would shut up for one frickin' minute!

Now if you'll excuse me, there's a spot on the wall with my blood on it, I need to go bang my head against it some more.

When did you become a moderate? :eek:

When did you become a moderate? :eek:

When libertarianism became an undefendable ideology.

Okay, fine, that's cool. The bottom line on that is this: He's not president yet. Let's all stop critiquing a presidency that doesn't yet exist.

Also, the OP is wrong.

Why do you hate freedom?

Why...?

Why do you hate freedom?

Why...?
It owes me money and ran over my puppy.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090116/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_interrogations

If you put the extra methods in the classified annex,

1. Most people won't have any idea what's still being done.
2. The public version of the document will be sparkly and shiny and happy.
3. Obama will preserve, ultimately, the ability to perform torture under specific circumstances.

Let's try this again shall we.
However, Obama's changes may not be absolute. His advisers are considering adding a classified loophole to the rules that could allow the CIA to use some interrogation methods not specifically authorized by the Pentagon, the officials said, although the intent is not to use that as an opening for possible use of waterboarding.
I highlighted the relevant portions for you.

It owes me money and ran over my puppy.

Fair 'nuff I spose.

According to anonymous source(s), unidentified Obama "advisers" may have considered an option that might be construed by some as a possible case-by-case "loophole" in a document clearly ending the use of torture and extreme interrogation techniques.

:rolleyes:

Maybe DK is the "anonymous source". It would fit in his modus operandi.

you know, the one about how Bush started out with the country divided over him, but now we're united about him.

Not entirely true. You still have... I use the term people loosely, like DK, New Mitanni and their ilk roaming about. Even Trollgaard who seems sensible sometimes, is plenty for the things Bush has done that everyone else hates.

The left worship Obama like he's the best thing since slice bread.

Which left are you talking about?

The one that's spent the last 2 weeks kvetching about Rick Warren, Obama's lack of response to Israel, the appointment of moderates to the department of agriculture, the new Treasury Secretary, and the fact that Obama hasn't promised to investigate Bush's term yet? That left? Because... If that's the best thing since sliced bread, the bread you're getting isn't very good.

Not entirely true. You still have... I use the term people loosely, like DK, New Mitanni and their ilk roaming about. Even Trollgaard who seems sensible sometimes, is plenty for the things Bush has done that everyone else hates.

The term for such people would be 'Bushevik'.

Which left are you talking about?

The one that's spent the last 2 weeks kvetching about Rick Warren, Obama's lack of response to Israel, the appointment of moderates to the department of agriculture, the new Treasury Secretary, and the fact that Obama hasn't promised to investigate Bush's term yet? That left? Because... If that's the best thing since sliced bread, the bread you're getting isn't very good.

I think hes refering to "the left" that isnt really the left, but the "fake" or "American" left. Known to the rest of the world as "moderates".

You know, the ones who get lumped in as leftist because theyre not right wing by certian right wing figures (Coulter, O'reilly).

And stupid college kids (I am a college kid before anyone freaks out) who would be happy with him even if he took a steaming dump on their porch.

I think hes refering to "the left" that isnt really the left, but the "fake" or "American" left. Known to the rest of the world as "moderates".

Yeah... That's the left I hang with. They're pissed. Seriously. American lefties. Not socialists or communists. Liberals with mild progressive lean. They aren't too pleased. Hell, I'm barely left of center and I'M not too pleased, although my problem is more with the spineless idiocy the congress practices.

And stupid college kids (I am a college kid before anyone freaks out) who would be happy with him even if he took a steaming dump on their porch.

Oh god... Don't get me started. I was in a Chinese Politics course last semester, sitting in, and one of my peers asserts, "I don't think we need to worry about retaliation as a defense strategy with incoming President Obama. He's not very warlike."

I nearly cried. These are politics students at a good private institution, and they don't know jack shit about the man, but are quite sure he's right, whatever it is that he believes.

They aren't lefties, though. They're just stupid.

I personally think that the best way to get information out of someone is to get them high, very high, so fucking high they don't come down for days and barely recall what happened. Then make them believe that they have already leaked a decent amount of information, and offer them incentives to tell you the details.

When did patience get bred out of the gene pool? He's not even in office until next frigging week! When Bush was first elected, the country was split so completely down the middle, with one half hating his guts with a passion and the other literally worshipping him like the Second Coming, that some people even started talking about the country breaking up over the differences. But look now, eight years later, Americans are united -- in hating Bush.

Give Obama a chance. Give him a minute, at least.

But he said things would change!