NationStates Jolt Archive

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480179,00.html

How did the doctors cut the carotid during appendicitis surgery...?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480179,00.html

How did the doctors cut the carotid during appendicitis surgery...?

Maybe they stayed at a Holiday Inn Express the night before...

Because the doctor's an idiot... maybe.

Because the doctor's an idiot... maybe.

I've got my money on violently epileptic.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480179,00.html

How did the doctors cut the carotid during appendicitis surgery...?

Maybe the surgeon was assassinated whilst doing it.

I've got my money on violently epileptic.

Perhaps.

Maybe the surgeon was assassinated whilst doing it.

Doubt it. It would be somewhat harder to sue him.

Yeah, but he would have landed on the removed appendix causing it to shoot up into the neck.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480179,00.html

How did the doctors cut the carotid during appendicitis surgery...?

You do realize the artery goes all the way down to just above the heart at the aortic arch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotid_artery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_arch

and before you say the appendix is in the digestive system.
which appendix ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix

I would normally assume the Vermiform appendix but this is fox news.

Dear Lord I feel sorry for the family.

I think this falls under criminal incompetence. If this man lived in Mirkana, he would have been shot.

Oh noez! But it is Faux news! I cannot believe anything about it! *lalalalalalalalalalala*
:D

On a more serious note, the doctor is a complete moron.

Yeah, the doctor's probably an Obama voter.

Doubt it. It would be somewhat harder to sue him.

Well, they'd still have the body.:p

You do realize the artery goes all the way down to just above the heart at the aortic arch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotid_artery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_arch

You do realize that the appendix is part of the human digestive system and attached to the intestines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiform_appendix
The significance, if you haven't realized, then, is that the carotid artery is in the neck and the appendix is in the bowel and therefore nowhere near each other.

yeah, the doctor's probably an obama voter.

what. The. Frak?

Don't be silly. The appendix is in the back.

You do realize that the appendix is part of the human digestive system and attached to the intestines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermiform_appendix

read my edit.

Oh... remove her appendix! I thought you asked me to cut half of her neck off. You really should have explained yourself better.

I bet the surgeon is going to get it in the neck for that mistake.

Well, they'd still have the body.:p

"The family is hereby awarded the offending doctor's liver..."

I bet the surgeon is going to get it in the neck for that mistake.

what a pain in the neck this whole thing is going to become

"The family is hereby awarded the offending doctor's liver..."

They could send a highwayman to get it. Y'know, "stand and de-liver" and all that.

You do realize the artery goes all the way down to just above the heart at the aortic arch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotid_artery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_arch

and before you say the appendix is in the digestive system.
which appendix ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix

I would normally assume the Vermiform appendix but this is fox news.

If you read carefully instead of just assuming that Fox was being biased you would have noticed that she went in for appendicitis, which affects, specifically, the vermiform appendix...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendicitis

I could do a better job than this bloke.

They could send a highwayman to get it. Y'know, "stand and de-liver" and all that.

As I was goin over the Cork and Kerry Mountains
I met with Surgeon Farrell and his malpractice insurance he was countin

I could do a better job than this bloke.

Wow. You're offering to take over his future surgeries? Really putting your neck on the line there. Gotta admire that.

Still. Could have been worse. I'm waiting for a story about a surgeon who didn't know a patient's arse from his elbow.

If you read carefully instead of just assuming that Fox was being biased you would have noticed that she went in for appendicitis, which affects, specifically, the vermiform appendix...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendicitis

i am aware. its not fox new bias that concerns me its fox new's laziness that concerns me.
how hard is it to assume work on the appendix, to mean removal of the appendix, then say hey that's appendicitis ??

produce the original AP article and I will be willing to chop out this doctors liver and give it to the girls dad myself.

read my edit.

Read my response.

And give me some credit. I looked it up before I posted.

i am aware. its not fox new bias that concerns me its fox new's laziness that concerns me.
how hard is it to assume work on the appendix, to mean removal of the appendix, then say hey that's appendicitis ??

produce the original AP article and I will be willing to chop out this doctors liver and give it to the girls dad myself.

Produce any evidence whatsoever that appendicitis means anything other than appendicitis. I'm fairly certain the meaning of a word does not change according to your desire to be cleverer than those around you.

You people do realise that they may have needed to establish a central line for whatever reason, and that that is the most probable explanation as to why the carotid artery may have become cut, especially as the anaesthesiologist is involved in the suit?

Of course you know that. Because you're not the idiots, no no, you medical experts, you who form in your expertise a judgement from an oh, so detailed 6 sentence article. The doctor clearly is the idiot here. Right...

You people do realise that they may have needed to establish a central line for whatever reason, and that that is the most probable explanation as to why the carotid artery may have become cut, especially as the anaesthesiologist is involved in the suit?

Of course you know that. Because you're not the idiots, no no, you medical experts, you who form in your expertise a judgement from an oh, so detailed 6 sentence article. The doctor clearly is the idiot here. Right...Oh please. Like it takes any special expertise to comment on medical procedures. I've watched enough TLC to confidently say I know what goes down in the operating room...all you're trying to do is get us to submit to some sort of medical Illuminati, when we now have tools such as the internet to more effectively inform ourselves about our health. Your sarcasm rolls off me like water on a duck's back.

You people do realise that they may have needed to establish a central line for whatever reason, and that that is the most probable explanation as to why the carotid artery may have become cut, especially as the anaesthesiologist is involved in the suit?

Of course you know that. Because you're not the idiots, no no, you medical experts, you who form in your expertise a judgement from an oh, so detailed 6 sentence article. The doctor clearly is the idiot here. Right...

Pfft. This is america. A guy died on the operating table so it's up to the doctors to prove that they didn't screw up, not the other way around. The thing speaks for itself.

err... what a sparse article. It doesn't state if it was internal bleeding or not, nor does it state how or where the artery was cut.

You people do realise that they may have needed to establish a central line for whatever reason, and that that is the most probable explanation as to why the carotid artery may have become cut, especially as the anaesthesiologist is involved in the suit?
Fass, you've never been one to let the facts get in the way of your own amusement before, why are you so annoyed that other people are doing it?

In that vein, I understand the doctor has recently made a statement:
"Yeah, well someone should have TOLD me she was a goddamned contortionist!"

You people do realise that they may have needed to establish a central line for whatever reason, and that that is the most probable explanation as to why the carotid artery may have become cut, especially as the anaesthesiologist is involved in the suit?

Of course you know that. Because you're not the idiots, no no, you medical experts, you who form in your expertise a judgement from an oh, so detailed 6 sentence article. The doctor clearly is the idiot here. Right...

"Cut" is different from "complications while inserting a needle for anaesthesia" are two different things.

Also, if your job is to be an anaesthesiologist and you regularly have to involve the carotid artery and not have someone die because of what you're doing, then having someone die because of what you're doing with their carotid is, well, negligent.

To put it more simply: if there was nothing wrong with her carotid before she went into surgery, and the surgery caused something to be wrong with her carotid artery, and she wasn't getting surgery on her carotid artery, and it's generally a surgeon's job to fix a person...

You people do realise that they may have needed to establish a central line for whatever reason, and that that is the most probable explanation as to why the carotid artery may have become cut, especially as the anaesthesiologist is involved in the suit?

Of course you know that. Because you're not the idiots, no no, you medical experts, you who form in your expertise a judgement from an oh, so detailed 6 sentence article. The doctor clearly is the idiot here. Right...

Uhm, speaking as someone who did NOT remark on the doctor and may need it for future translations, I ask...

What's a "central line"? o_O

In that vein

Dude, it's an artery, not a vein. Look it up.

(Heh.)

Uhm, speaking as someone who did NOT remark on the doctor and may need it for future translations, I ask...

What's a "central line"? o_O

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_venous_catheter

I've had two of these :) (and yes, that makes you look like frankenstein's monster)

And seeing as it's in a vein, you're a pretty bad doctor if you end up slicing an artery instead.

I don't think they are used for anaesthesia unless there are complications about finding any other veins. And they wouldn't normally be administering other drugs via one unless there were heart complications (which sounds unlikely for a 16 year old)

You are all fucking idiots, you're embarrassing the prestige of NSG by your ignorance of human anatomy, the appendix is in the Brain, fools!

"Cut" is different from "complications while inserting a needle for anaesthesia" are two different things.
actually, it is possible for the needle to punchture the artery on the inside and she could've bleed internally. IF the artery was 'cut' (as in slice) and NO ONE NOTICED as she bled externallly, then that would be criminal, not just incompetance.

What's a "central line"? o_O
a central line (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=14394).

also from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_venous_catheter)... for those who can't wrap their brains around the medical jargon... like me. :(

actually, it is possible for the needle to punchture the artery on the inside and she could've bleed internally. IF the artery was 'cut' (as in slice) and NO ONE NOTICED as she bled externallly, then that would be criminal, not just incompetance.


a central line (http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=14394).

also from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_venous_catheter)... for those who can't wrap their brains around the medical jargon... like me. :(

Thanks. You a doctor? ^_^

Thanks. You a doctor? ^_^

nope, I just work in a hosptial. but I speak from experience. the nurse put in a central line in my arm and it went THROUGH the vein. so all that wonderful pain killer was going INTO my arm and not into the vein. :mad:

Picture those cartoons when one of the characters gets 'blown up' like a balloon? surprisingly that was similar to what happened to me. my lower arm, wrist and hand was puffed up like a huge balloon. :tongue:

needless to say, it took several days for the 'swelling' to go down. but those were several PAIN FREE days as the meds were slowly absorbed by my body. :D

so it's not unusual for a needle to go though the vein/artery and not far fetched for a puncture to turn into a tear.

I found a more detailed article (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/local_story_014004929.html) than the one from Fox.

*sound of everything making sense*

actually, it is possible for the needle to punchture the artery on the inside and she could've bleed internally. IF the artery was 'cut' (as in slice) and NO ONE NOTICED as she bled externallly, then that would be criminal, not just incompetance.

Exactly.

The surgeon was performing a laparoscopy that morning when he realized he had nicked the common iliac artery (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_iliac_artery), according to the autopsy report by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.
If anyone fails anatomy here, it's FOXNews.

*sound of everything making sense*

Not quite.

The surgeon was performing a laparoscopy that morning when he realized he had nicked the common iliac artery, according to the autopsy report by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.

“It is felt the cause of death is regarded to (be an) incised wound of left common carotid artery caused by the mechanism of exsanguination. The manner of death is ruled as an accident,” the chief medical examiner wrote.

I imagine this is the source of confusion.

If anyone fails anatomy here, it's FOXNews.

Wrong again!

“It is felt the cause of death is regarded to (be an) incised wound of left common carotid artery caused by the mechanism of exsanguination. The manner of death is ruled as an accident,” the chief medical examiner wrote.

Not quite.

I imagine this is the source of confusion.

Yes - that's why it NOW makes sense. At least the Iliac artery is in the abdomen!!!

I found a more detailed article (http://www.edmondsun.com/local/local_story_014004929.html) than the one from Fox.
nice... more info.

The surgeon was performing a laparoscopy (http://www.webmd.com/digestive-disorders/laparoscopy-16156) that morning when he realized he had nicked the common iliac artery, according to the autopsy report by the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner.

The surgeon then completely opened the abdomen and applied pressure to the artery and did heart massage for about one hour.

Following surgery, Harkness remained unresponsive and was pronounced dead later that day at 12:54 p.m. No foul play was suspected.

“It is felt the cause of death is regarded to (be an) incised wound of left common carotid artery caused by the mechanism of exsanguination. The manner of death is ruled as an accident,” the chief medical examiner wrote.

Exsanguination is extensive blood loss due to internal or external hemorrhage, which, if not surgically controlled, will lead to death, according to online sources.

I wonder what procedures were taken. I can't believe they just 'massaged the heart' while she bled out.

don't look good for that doc...
The lawsuit alleges that Integris was negligent in credentialing Bell “given his previous history of injuries and deaths of other patients from laparoscopic surgery.” Clark said that allegation is based on “what we hear,” and he noted that depositions had not been taken yet.

Yes - that's why it NOW makes sense. At least the Iliac artery is in the abdomen!!!

Yes, but it begs the question of why the medical examiner wrote carotid artery, when in fact it was the iliac artery.

Yes, but it begs the question of why the medical examiner wrote carotid artery, when in fact it was the iliac artery.

or it could've been the person writing the report.

or it could've been the person writing the report.

Yes, there is that possibility.

Both beg the question: why is everyone freaking out like Fox is the one that made the mistake?

Yes, there is that possibility.

Both beg the question: why is everyone freaking out like Fox is the one that made the mistake?

because everyone here has been trained like Pavlov's dog to decry Fox News whenever it's mentioned.

then again, it just could be the Incompetance of the doctor.

Wrong again!

Where was I wrong before?

I love Fox News. And Murdoch is a lovely cute ickle poodle of yummy wholesome goody yum-yums.

I could only say that because no-one was ringing a bell.

Where was I wrong before?

The Edmond Sun got it wrong, first. Fox was working from faulty information, not their fault.

The Edmond Sun got it wrong, first. Fox was working from faulty information, not their fault.

Right, but where was I wrong first?

Right, but where was I wrong first?

It was back there on page 2 somewhere.

It was back there on page 2 somewhere.

I don't see how, my first post in this thread was on page 4. Me thinks you have be mistaken for someone else.

I don't see how, my first post in this thread was on page 4. Me thinks you have be mistaken for someone else.

Or you posted under a different screen name.

Or maybe you posted under a different screen name.

Dude, it's an artery, not a vein. Look it up.

(Heh.)
Yeah, well, um, yeah, well, yeah, but . . .
YOUR FREQUENTLY PROMISCUOUS MOTHER!

Yes, there is that possibility.

Both beg the question: why is everyone freaking out like Fox is the one that made the mistake?

because unlike other news sources Fox doesn't double check for themselves.
the other half the time it is like they take reliable information play a game of telephone with it(that game where half a dozen or more people whisper in each others ear and get something completely different comes out at the end) then print the end result as front page news.

The Carotid Artery runs along the entirety of the body, it is the main artery in the body and pumps the highest volume of blood. Its still gross incompetence for the surgeon to cut it and kill someone.

EDIT: I read a more detailed article and it states it was a different artery, which is it? o.O

"Cut" is different from "complications while inserting a needle for anaesthesia" are two different things.

Central lines sometimes require preparation of the vein with - and here comes the shocker - a scalpel (http://www.scielo.br/img/revistas/babt/v48n1/a07fig01.gif), especially if the ipsilateral external jugular vein cannot be found or is not large enough (not uncommon among non-adults). And guess which artery goes right next to the jugular vein? Go ahead, guess!

Also, if your job is to be an anaesthesiologist and you regularly have to involve the carotid artery and not have someone die because of what you're doing, then having someone die because of what you're doing with their carotid is, well, negligent.

Nope. It is called "making a mistake" and, in fact, one of the most common complications of the procedure is going into the wrong vessel. So please, get a bloody clue already before you call anything "negligent" - just because something went wrong, doesn't mean it was negligent.

To put it more simply: if there was nothing wrong with her carotid before she went into surgery, and the surgery caused something to be wrong with her carotid artery, and she wasn't getting surgery on her carotid artery, and it's generally a surgeon's job to fix a person...

There was a complication. Damn, you people... it's like you're negligently ignorant and proud of it. I think you are.

As for the subsequent article given, it sheds light on what really happened and even there nicking the common iliac artery during a laparoscopic procedure is not an unheard of complication for surgery involving the fossa iliaca, since injury to surrounding organs, blood vessels or nerves is among the more common risks with the procedure. It happens. Nothing is 100% error free. To call it negligent without having any idea of the difficulty of the procedure and this person's anatomy, which may very well have been difficult for the surgeon to negotiate, and what was done subsequently to try to correct the error and whether that was done skilfully, if unsuccessfully... is stupid. No other word for it. Stupid. Negligently so. You do not have the information, nor obviously the knowledge required to process it, that is required for such an opinion, so stop jumping to baseless conclusions.

There was a complication. Damn, you people... it's like you're negligently ignorant and proud of it. I think you are.

Yes, and the complication was caused by negligence until proven otherwise. As there has not yet been a finding of the relevant facts the negligence is presumed. That's the way it works in Jesusland with Doctor type 'mistakes'.

Ignorance of medical stuff is beside the point. I've no doubt it's different in countries that don't have the benefit of Jesus.

Yes, and the complication was caused by negligence until proven otherwise. As there has not yet been a finding of the relevant facts the negligence is presumed. That's the way it works in Jesusland with Doctor type 'mistakes'.

Ignorance of medical stuff is beside the point. I've no doubt it's different in countries that don't have the benefit of Jesus.

WTF are you talking about?

WTF are you talking about?

That the doctor was negligent. It's the way it works here. And because it's a presumption that can only be rebutted at a trial, actual knowledge of medical procedure is irrelevant because it has no bearing on whether or not he can be properly called negligent at this time. (He can).

Think of it as a guilt until proven innocent thing. (Though that's not all that great a comparison).

That the doctor was negligent. It's the way it works here. And because it's a presumption that can only be rebutted at a trial, actual knowledge of medical procedure is irrelevant because it has no bearing on whether or not he can be properly called negligent at this time. (He can).

Think of it as a guilt until proven innocent thing. (Though that's not all that great a comparison).

Dude, I was wondering what the deal was with all this Jesus thing?

Dude, I was wondering what the deal was with all this Jesus thing?

Oklahoma City is in the Jesusland part of the US. I though everyone knew that.

Oklahoma City is in the Jesusland part of the US. I though everyone knew that.

Yes dude but I'm still failing to see the connection. I would have thought it was more to deal with media outlets who need to sensationalise everything rather than a religion.

Yes dude but I'm still failing to see the connection. I would have thought it was more to deal with media outlets who need to sensationalise everything rather than a religion.

What sensationalism?

Well... I suppose he removed the wrong part, then.

What sensationalism?

See what happens when you start talking about unrelated things and linking it to this story?

You do realize the artery goes all the way down to just above the heart at the aortic arch.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carotid_artery
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aortic_arch

and before you say the appendix is in the digestive system.
which appendix ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appendix

I would normally assume the Vermiform appendix but this is fox news.

Hmm...I was not aware that there was more than one appendix in your body. You learn something new everyday...:confused:

Hmm...I was not aware that there was more than one appendix in your body. You learn something new everyday...:confused:

The one referred to by just about everyone as an "appendix" is the one by the intestines. You, as a speaker, know that too. :p