NationStates Jolt Archive

Sweet Statutory [1] (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=568218&highlight=Sweet+Statutory)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480089,00.html

So now it's legal, apparently, in Washington.

The next question I have to ask is...why would you want to?

hot.

edit: so I'm the only one who had a crush on teachers in school huh?

i sure hope he can still be fired at least.

Fair enough.

OMG. A teacher doing it with a student in maths class would make me feel rather silly.

Dammit, where were these teachers when I was in school?!

The next question I have to ask is...why would you want to?

Because it's fun.

It redefines 'extracurricular activities'. :)

hot.

edit: so I'm the only one who had a crush on teachers in school huh?

Crush on teachers, yes. But why on earth would a teacher be interested in a student?

i sure hope he can still be fired at least.

He did resign. In any case, he could probably sue for his job based on the county policy, depending on what it is.

On the other hand, a teacher offering to bang the highest-graded student ought to be an educational incentive.

On the other hand, a teacher offering to bang the highest-graded student ought to be an educational incentive.

Depends on the teacher (http://www.thegvda.org/ugly_nun.JPG)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f0/Hot_for_Teacher.jpg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_lio51Z1qc)

Sweet Statutory [1] (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=568218&highlight=Sweet+Statutory)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480089,00.html

So now it's legal, apparently, in Washington.

The next question I have to ask is...why would you want to?

As usual with you, Faux News, and this general topic, things are quite as they being characterized.

The court in Washington held that a particular statute did not apply to the defendant's conduct because the student in question was 18, and therefore not a minor. See link to the court's opinion (http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&filename=368048MAJ).

That is not quite the same as Washington declaring open season on sex with students. No one is endorsing or supporting such conduct or declaring it universally "legal."

Also, the Faux News story reports:

Hoquiam High School Principal Mark VandenHazel said it's still not acceptable for teachers to engage in sexual conduct with 18-year-old students.

"Regardless of whether it's a criminal act or not, you do this as a teacher and you're just not going to have a job," VandenHazel told FOXNews.com. "We have zero tolerance. If you want to continue teaching, don't even think about it."

Rich Wood, spokesman for the Washington Education Association, echoed VandenHazel's comments.

"A teacher who has an inappropriate relationship with a student is subject to losing their certificate and getting kicked out of the association," Wood told FOXNews.com. "It is grounds for never teaching again in this state — that's not affected by [the Hirschfelder ruling]."

State legislators have already introduced a bill that would make it a felony for teachers to have a sexual relationship with a student who is between 16 and 21 years old. A conviction would carry a mandatory minimum of five years in prison.

edit: so I'm the only one who had a crush on teachers in school huh?

No you're not the only one.

I was going to write a joke, but then I remembered what I do for a living and that it wouldn't come off so well.

Cat Tribes already pointed out the fault is with the law as written, but as to why a teacher would go after a student, why would ANY male go after a younger woman? Teachers are human, the same as everyone else. The temptation is always there. The trick is, as I learned in university and the hard way in the classroom, is to always remember, 'I am the teacher, they are my students, nothing more than that.'

Well if the person is 18, that makes them a legal adult.

I never had a hot teacher, inner-city public schools aren't usually loaded with them.

"A Washington court's ruling this week that teachers can legally have sex with their 18-year-old students is sparking outrage among parents, psychologists and sex therapists."

Guess what, people aged 18 are adults, so they can do what they want. Holy shit, they can even JOIN THE ARMY and DRIVE A CAR! Why shouldn't they be allowed to have sex with another consenting adult of their choice?

On the other hand, I don't think it's appropriated for a teacher to have sex with a pupil because roles, on an educational level, are better if well-defined and separated. So, while it shouldn't be illegal, the internal regulations of the school should advise that it's better not to cross the line.


Btw, I had a German teacher who was a real hottie, tall, platinum-blonde, with long legs and a penchant for leather minis, boots and fumeè leggings... too bad I was 17, but she really was a blow to our hormones.

Sweet Statutory [1] (http://forums.jolt.co.uk/showthread.php?t=568218&highlight=Sweet+Statutory)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,480089,00.html

So now it's legal, apparently, in Washington.

The next question I have to ask is...why would you want to?

It's not statutory if they are of age. It's only statutory if they are under aged. Besides, the kids need to learn how to shag properly!

hot.

edit: so I'm the only one who had a crush on teachers in school huh?

I actually asked a teacher(Female, of course) to marry me when I was in 2nd Grade.

Crush on teachers, yes. But why on earth would a teacher be interested in a student?

Any number of reasons, all linked to the basic one: temptation. Whether that's purely sexual or there's some perceived depth of connection there, human beings are adept at rationalizing murder -- why should unethical sex be difficult?

Also, new teachers can be as young as 22 -- though that age proximity is usually taken into account when assigning positions to teachers of high school students.

He did resign. In any case, he could probably sue for his job based on the county policy, depending on what it is.

No, no he couldn't. While the law allows for it not to be a crime, it is a colossal breach of the WAC (Washington Administrative Code). These days, the Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction could revoke or at least suspend your certificate in a matter of days, for an investigation that could take months or years. There is some mitigation if the student is 18 and has graduated...but not much.

As usual with you, Faux News, and this general topic, things are quite as they being characterized.

The court in Washington held that a particular statute did not apply to the defendant's conduct because the student in question was 18, and therefore not a minor. See link to the court's opinion (http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&filename=368048MAJ).

That is not quite the same as Washington declaring open season on sex with students. No one is endorsing or supporting such conduct or declaring it universally "legal."

Also, the Faux News story reports:

Hoquiam High School Principal Mark VandenHazel said it's still not acceptable for teachers to engage in sexual conduct with 18-year-old students.

"Regardless of whether it's a criminal act or not, you do this as a teacher and you're just not going to have a job," VandenHazel told FOXNews.com. "We have zero tolerance. If you want to continue teaching, don't even think about it."

Rich Wood, spokesman for the Washington Education Association, echoed VandenHazel's comments.

"A teacher who has an inappropriate relationship with a student is subject to losing their certificate and getting kicked out of the association," Wood told FOXNews.com. "It is grounds for never teaching again in this state — that's not affected by [the Hirschfelder ruling]."

State legislators have already introduced a bill that would make it a felony for teachers to have a sexual relationship with a student who is between 16 and 21 years old. A conviction would carry a mandatory minimum of five years in prison.



^
T
H
I
S.

Anyone else find it ironic that the general attitude of these outraged parents was its ok in college but not in high school?

Anyone else find it ironic that the general attitude of these outraged parents was its ok in college but not in high school?
Well, everyone knows that shagging the prof is acceptable and in some classes, the only way to an A. :tongue:

Well, everyone knows that shagging the prof is acceptable and in some classes, the only way to an A. :tongue:

Its still one fucked up double standard. As Linus once said, I love Humanity, I hate people.

Holy shitballs.

I know Matthew Hirschfelder. I was a guest clinician at a choir retreat he organized for his students in 2004. Also, that means I likely at least saw, if not coached or conducted, the girl in question.

What a damn shame. He was a good teacher.

Its still one fucked up double standard. As Linus once said, I love Humanity, I hate people.
I'm not sure it is so much a double standard as it is the line. High school, after all, is still a point in time where one is still a minor (Ignoring the age of the girl in question right now) and still under the guardianship of one's parents.

College, however, has become the place for newly minted adults to spread their wings and start to fly. They've left the nest in other words.

I'm not sure it is so much a double standard as it is the line. High school, after all, is still a point in time where one is still a minor (Ignoring the age of the girl in question right now) and still under the guardianship of one's parents.

College, however, has become the place for newly minted adults to spread their wings and start to fly. They've left the nest in other words.

True. Even if a student is 18 and hasn't yet graduated, the teacher is still considered in loco parentis by law.

One of my best friends in High School *tried* to seduce the librarian at our school. She wasn't all that hot but not bad. She didn't go for him but he was persistent. I think she thought it was some kind of joke but I *know* he would have gone through with it.

True. Even if a student is 18 and hasn't yet graduated, the teacher is still considered in loco parentis by law.
Very much so. A public school teacher has far more power over his or her charges than a college professor.

That said, of course, it would be a major ethics violation for a professor to have a relationship with a student in his or her class (I would argue as well as a student in his or her college or department, but that's me).

One of my best friends in High School *tried* to seduce the librarian at our school. She wasn't all that hot but not bad. She didn't go for him but he was persistent. I think she thought it was some kind of joke but I *know* he would have gone through with it.

You *know* a high school boy would have had sex if the opportunity presented itself? Shocking.

Very much so. A public school teacher has far more power over his or her charges than a college professor.

That said, of course, it would be a major ethics violation for a professor to have a relationship with a student in his or her class (I would argue as well as a student in his or her college or department, but that's me).

I put it this way: don't shit where you eat.

I'm not sure it is so much a double standard as it is the line. High school, after all, is still a point in time where one is still a minor (Ignoring the age of the girl in question right now) and still under the guardianship of one's parents.

College, however, has become the place for newly minted adults to spread their wings and start to fly. They've left the nest in other words.

It is in my opinion, a professor has an obligation and responsibility toward his/her students the same as a high school teacher; that and its wholly unprofessional. It is in my mind a double standard.

It is in my opinion, a professor has an obligation and responsibility toward his/her students the same as a high school teacher; that and its wholly unprofessional. It is in my mind a double standard.
A professor however is not acting in loco parentis.

A professor however is not acting in loco parentis.

That's why he prefaced his assertion with "in my opinion". You're right, of course, but if it's what he thinks and what he would live by, so is he.

That's why he prefaced his assertion with "in my opinion". You're right, of course, but if it's what he thinks and what he would live by, so is he.
And I didn't say otherwise. In fact, I agree with him. I was just noting, however, that a high school teacher, legally, does have an extra dollop of... something (Whatever you wish to call it) with the in loco parentis bit tacked on than a college professor.

But, yes, I do agree that morally a professor has the same obligations and responsibilities to his students that a high school teacher has.

True. Even if a student is 18 and hasn't yet graduated, the teacher is still considered in loco parentis by law.

Really? Here in Italy, once the student is 18, there's no in loco parentis anymore, because he's a full-fledged adult.

I do not see what possible objection any rational person can have to this result. A teacher who has an improper relationship with an of-age student can be punished professionally for violating a professional code of ethics, but not legally as they have not violated any law. There is nothing wrong or objectionable to not charging someone with a crime that they did not commit.

This clears up an annoying legal inconsistency. This does not however mean I have to approve of the act in question.

Really? Here in Italy, once the student is 18, there's no in loco parentis anymore, because he's a full-fledged adult.

I think it has something to do with still being in the charge of the teacher. You've still got state-granted licensure for authority over students, even if they're 18. I've been out of touch with public school law for about five years, so it may be different or I may remember it wrong.

I do not see what possible objection any rational person can have to this result. A teacher who has an improper relationship with an of-age student can be destroyed professionally for violating a professional code of ethics, but not legally as they have not violated any law. There is nothing wrong or objectionable to not charging someone with a crime that they did not commit.

Fixed for accuracy.

i sure hope he can still be fired at least.
I expect so.
Dammit, where were these teachers when I was in school?!
In school with you?
It redefines 'extracurricular activities'. :)
Sex is supposedly very good exercise........
Also, the Faux News story reports:

.....State legislators have already introduced a bill that would make it a felony for teachers to have a sexual relationship with a student who is between 16 and 21 years old. A conviction would carry a mandatory minimum of five years in prison.
Oh now that's just "Think of the children!!!11!" bullshit. Are they going to introduce a law to keep a manager from doing his secretary after this? That's an innappropriate relationship between two adults(presumably) too.
It's not statutory if they are of age. It's only statutory if they are under aged. Besides, the kids need to learn how to shag properly!
I'd say it brings a whole new meaning to the term "sex ed", but really, that joke's as old as the subject.



I actually asked a teacher(Female, of course) to marry me when I was in 2nd Grade.
What did she say?
I do not see what possible objection any rational person can have to this result. A teacher who has an improper relationship with an of-age student can be punished professionally for violating a professional code of ethics, but not legally as they have not violated any law. There is nothing wrong or objectionable to not charging someone with a crime that they did not commit.

^This

Ive had a few teachers....lets just say they had excellent structure, lol....:wink:

True. Even if a student is 18 and hasn't yet graduated, the teacher is still considered in loco parentis by law.

Does that necessarily prohibit them fucking like bunnies?

I'd say it brings a whole new meaning to the term "sex ed", but really, that joke's as old as the subject.

If it works, don't fix it. I say the boys get the hot blonde teather to teach them how to shag, and the girls...............hmmmmm......

The court in Washington held that a particular statute did not apply to the defendant's conduct because the student in question was 18, and therefore not a minor. See link to the court's opinion (http://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/index.cfm?fa=opinions.showOpinion&filename=368048MAJ).

That is not quite the same as Washington declaring open season on sex with students. No one is endorsing or supporting such conduct or declaring it universally "legal."

On THAT basis, I agree with the court. Once you're 18, statutory rape is out of the equation entirely. And actually, many states have lower ages of consent than 18. But once you're 18, you're usually an adult in the eyes of the law.

I doubt very seriously Washington state (or any state, for that matter) would declare that teachers wantonly having sex with their pupils was either legal or acceptable behaviour regardless of age. What they're saying is that a conviction on the basis of statutory rape doesn't apply in this case because the student is or was 18 at the time.

And again, according to the news account, the state educators' association is strongly condemning the sexual activity. So whether it's legal or not, it's unethical and will be punished accordingly.

"A Washington court's ruling this week that teachers can legally have sex with their 18-year-old students is sparking outrage among parents, psychologists and sex therapists."

Guess what, people aged 18 are adults, so they can do what they want. Holy shit, they can even JOIN THE ARMY and DRIVE A CAR! Why shouldn't they be allowed to have sex with another consenting adult of their choice?

On the other hand, I don't think it's appropriated for a teacher to have sex with a pupil because roles, on an educational level, are better if well-defined and separated. So, while it shouldn't be illegal, the internal regulations of the school should advise that it's better not to cross the line.


Btw, I had a German teacher who was a real hottie, tall, platinum-blonde, with long legs and a penchant for leather minis, boots and fumeè leggings... too bad I was 17, but she really was a blow to our hormones.

Damn. My French teacher wears leather pants all the time and she's not exactly. And cause I'm a strange bastard, this does nothing/very little for me.

Does that necessarily prohibit them fucking like bunnies?

Legally? No. Ethically, and therefore with direct respect to ever teaching again in a public school in the nation, in all probability? Without a doubt.