NationStates Jolt Archive

It's a Beast!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7829475.stm

Obama's 'Beast' of a car revealed

By Rajini Vaidyanathan
BBC News, Washington

It looks like something out of a James Bond film.

But the presidential seal on the side marks this hulking limo out as something not even the superspy will be able to get his hands on.

These are the first pictures of the new armoured limousine which will be used to ferry Barack Obama around.

Nicknamed "The Beast", the Cadillac will make its debut on 20 January, as part of the inaugural parade.

It is traditional to show presidential cars off for the first time in this way.

'State of the art'

The Secret Service said the 2009 limo would provide it with a "valuable asset" in providing its occupant with the highest level of protection.

As expected, they are not giving too much away about the car, but Nicholas Trotta, their Assistant Director for the Office of Protective Operations is quoted in their news release:

"Although many of the vehicle's security enhancements cannot be discussed, it is safe to say that this car's security and coded communications systems make it the most technologically advanced protection vehicle in the world."

Observers say the car is likely to include bullet proof glass, an armoured body, a separate oxygen supply, and a completely sealed interior to protect against a chemical attack.

Some joke the car is so tough it could withstand a rocket-propelled grenade. Its tyres are said to work flat, so the vehicle will keep going even if shot at.

While the car's interior is a closely guarded secret, there is no doubt "The Beast" has been kitted out with the best and most up-to-date equipment.

David Caldwell, a spokesman for General Motors which makes Cadillac, told the BBC that the car is made to specifications that the company is given by the federal government.

"One of the specifications is that we don't talk about the specifications," he said.

But Mr Caldwell did reveal that the car has been made in keeping with the design of a contemporary Cadillac, and would include a hand-crafted interior.

When asked if it included such extras as an iPod dock, he said he could not comment specifically, but added that the limo would have "state of the art electronics".

My only objection is that it's a limo rather than a smaller, more fuel efficient car, but then I tend to look mildly negatively(or at least feel I should, anyway) at anything like this that smacks of high wealth. Call it a case of having an attitude that one is a public servant to do work, not be nobility.

But regardless, it's a very good car for Obama. He'll be well defended. Let's hope the defenses don't have to be used.

Its at least a hybrid Kyronea.

I knew it would look better fully painted.

I can understand the need for security, but I always thought the best form of security is having the president in something other than a limo to screw with people's heads.

Otherwise, the whole thing reeks of waste and excess. Oh well.

Presidential limousines are pretty interesting. This thing is massive. Look at the windows; that armor is thick.

It's a Beast!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7829475.stm



My only objection is that it's a limo rather than a smaller, more fuel efficient car, but then I tend to look mildly negatively(or at least feel I should, anyway) at anything like this that smacks of high wealth. Call it a case of having an attitude that one is a public servant to do work, not be nobility.

But regardless, it's a very good car for Obama. He'll be well defended. Let's hope the defenses don't have to be used.

ROFL! Wow...am I the only one who thought that the limo should be in a rap video?

I'd seriously die laughing if the limo comes with hydraulics and subwoofers.

Ahh...funny funny stuff.

I can understand the need for security, but I always thought the best form of security is having the president in something other than a limo to screw with people's heads.


They tried it with a Segway once. Bush's dismal performance with it showed them it wasn't workable.

That thing STILL looks ugly.

I cant wait till hes president so when anyone talks about him, they can actually talk about things of substance.


EDIT: I know it wont happen, but I can dream cant I?

I cant wait till hes president so when anyone talks about him, they can actually talk about things of substance.


EDIT: I know it wont happen, but I can dream cant I?

You know they'll still be talking about his damn dog two years into his presidency.

You know they'll still be talking about his damn dog two years into his presidency.

I cant decide which annoys me more. The star struck swooning, or the right wing paranoia and baseless fear mongering.


Thats a lie, I can decide which annoys me more. A lot more. But the swooning going on lately has still gotten old. No, I dont give a fuck what he had for Thanksgiving, gtfo.

Exactly. Obama is important as the President-Elect, but this is getting silly.

This is necessary. Presidents have traditionally made lots of powerful enemies just by becoming president. It's not unreasonable to assume that the Commander in Chief for the world's most powerful and second most hated military would be in mortal danger. Plus, the country can't run effectively if the Prsident needed to be replaced every week.

My only objection is that it's a limo rather than a smaller, more fuel efficient car, but then I tend to look mildly negatively(or at least feel I should, anyway) at anything like this that smacks of high wealth. Call it a case of having an attitude that one is a public servant to do work, not be nobility.

But regardless, it's a very good car for Obama. He'll be well defended. Let's hope the defenses don't have to be used.

LOL, nice car. And he'll prolly need the room, travelling with aides and stuff.

That thing STILL looks ugly.

Unfortunately, the president of the US is not gonna use a german car.

That thing STILL looks ugly.

I've never seen a car that wasn't.

I've never seen a car that wasn't.

:eek:

Doesnt it look sexy?

http://www.lapcr.com/08%20Mercedes%20C%20Class.jpg

Whoa, this car, is massive! They may as well give Obama an APC. :D

:eek:

Doesnt it look sexy?

http://www.lapcr.com/08%20Mercedes%20C%20Class.jpg

No, its not

:eek:

Doesnt it look sexy?

http://www.lapcr.com/08%20Mercedes%20C%20Class.jpg

I'm thinking more along the lines of this:

http://redlightnaps.files.wordpress.com/2007/08/delorean1.jpg

Whoa, this car, is massive! They may as well give Obama an APC. :D

http://www.oxmonline.com/files/u15049/APC_Chase_tiledshot.jpg

Oh Hell Yeah. Obama would kick ass in one of those.

I've never seen a car that wasn't.

BMW 8 Series. Hell, I'll link the Wikipedia article, even:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_8_Series

Why isn't he taking mass transit?

Why isn't he taking mass transit?

Because once secured, it stops being mass transit.

Because once secured, it stops being mass transit.

So don't secure it. Just give him a few bodyguards.

Winston Churchill used to regularly walk to parliament during WWII.

Americans are paranoid.

So don't secure it. Just give him a few bodyguards.

Winston Churchill used to regularly walk to parliament during WWII.

Americans are paranoid.

Churchill didn't have to worry about being targeted by Nazi assassins or the IRA either.

In the day of modern terrorism and assassination, Obama taking public transportation with even a bodyguard contingent would be even bigger stupidity than Sarah Palin using public e-mail for state business.

Here's a cutaway.

http://www.autoloandaily.com/images/stories/cadillac%20one%20cutaway.jpg

Here's a cutaway.

-SNIP-

My god, that limo's right out of Spy Hunter. Right down to the shotgun.

So don't secure it. Just give him a few bodyguards.

Winston Churchill used to regularly walk to parliament during WWII.

Americans are paranoid.

Winston Churchill didn't have any of his predecessors in the past generation or so being gunned down in the open though.

Here's a cutaway.
...SNIP

That car is just crazy, it sounds very cool though - the doors weigh the equivalent of plane doors... just absolutely crazy. Pump-action shotguns too - hah, crazy - very American - pretty cool but!..

Ugly as hell
:p

Lacks the defense of speed though, it's seriously slow. Probably takes minutes to change course as well. Once you're cornered, armor alone is little defense - it may stop bullets, but won't stand a RPG, these things cut a lot more armor than it has, and they aren't all that rare today. The only defense against RPGs viable on a car is reactive armor or an active protection system like Arena or Trophy.


They ought have taken an S-class with AMG engine as the base. Though I see why they'd use diesel, could be because diesel fuel is far less flammable, but they could take a good one, say the V12 diesel from Audi Q7. It wouldn't become sporty, but at least it wouldn't top out at 60mph and take 15 seconds to get there either.

Mercedes are pros at armored cars, so they would also still be able to use a reinforced car chassis rather than a truck one, which means an ability to turn.

That is the single coolest thing I've seen in a long while

Boy, that's hideous...

Excuse the pun, but I wouldn't want to be seen dead in something like that.

Lacks the defense of speed though, it's seriously slow. Probably takes minutes to change course as well. Once you're cornered, armor alone is little defense - it may stop bullets, but won't stand a RPG, these things cut a lot more armor than it has, and they aren't all that rare today. The only defense against RPGs viable on a car is reactive armor or an active protection system like Arena or Trophy.


Here's the $5 question. How do you know it doesn't have reactive armor? It's not like they advertised all the defensive measures. Sure, you could argue that the windows are a big weak spot to RPGs since they obviously won't carry ERA bricks, but so would any armored car, and the only way around that is to turn the Presidential Limo into the Presidential APC.

Secondly, having infantry (secret service) protecting reactive armored vehicles is a quick way to being gibbed.

How is this newsworthy? Immaterial tripe.

Here's the $5 question. How do you know it doesn't have reactive armor?
First of all, ERA is highly dangerous, and prone to accidental detonation from light fire, which causes heavy damage to soft targets. Not very prone, but I still think the President would have reservations about riding around in a fragmentation bomb from "Terrorist's Dream" series.

NERA is safe, but not as effective, and, knowing the conservatism of American protection design, they wouldn't use president's limo as a test platform for its first application.

Second, the doors are only 8" thick. That's less than twice the thickness of a normal car door, you can find a 6" door on a luxury car without any armor. There's space left to fit some aluminum and ceramic armor, but not ERA. While NERA could potentially fit, see above, plus it wouldn't leave enough space for bullet protection.

Third, the estimated weight of a bit over 4 tons, confirmed by the performance figures, doesn't really allow for such comprehensive protection. Reactive armor requires a very stiff backing structure, something not doable in such weight and thickness constraints.


Sure, you could argue that the windows are a big weak spot to RPGs since they obviously won't carry ERA bricks, but so would any armored car, and the only way around that is to turn the Presidential Limo into the Presidential APC.
Another way is to turn the Presidential Truck into the Presidential Car. Build it with high-performance chassis and drivetrain so that it can get moving quickly. Hitting a mobile target with any sort of RPG is very unlikely.

A big fat morbidly obese car can be fast, the Germans, particularly Mercedes, do that routinely: just give it twice the chassis and drivetrain of a healthy car, and the 2.5-ton abomination goes 200 mph.


Secondly, having infantry (secret service) protecting reactive armored vehicles is a quick way to being gibbed.
Exactly, that's why it should be built like an armored getaway car, not as a bunker: any static defense can be easily breached.

Wouldn't it have been better for him to have a Toyota Camry instead of that thing - it looks abominable for a sedan.
As for the 6.5 diesel - surely they could have had Toyota's 3.5 V6 petrol fitted instead?

The 2009 Camry is awesome - just awesome. Shame the President didn't decide to get one.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/autoreview/400x266/2009-Toyota-Camry-07812081990002.jpg

Another way is to turn the Presidential Truck into the Presidential Car. Build it with high-performance chassis and drivetrain so that it can get moving quickly. Hitting a mobile target with any sort of RPG is very unlikely.

A big fat morbidly obese car can be fast, the Germans, particularly Mercedes, do that routinely: just give it twice the chassis and drivetrain of a healthy car, and the 2.5-ton abomination goes 200 mph.


Even if we discount ERA and NERA bricks, the biggest consideration would be the mission parameters of the limo and its likely deployment arrangement.

The way I see it, the limo is designed on the principle of keeping its occupant safe and the vehicle retaining mobility in the event of that extra lucky first shot with a variety of man portable weapons and land mines (although if you strap a couple of 155mm shells together under a manhole on a remote detonator, I don't think any amount of armor is going to help), while the escorts neutralize the threat. I find it likely that the routes are all swept prior to the limo moving anywhere.

If it faces a full assault team with sufficient power and tactical skill to be hidden during the sweep, take out the escorts, prevent the limo from escaping and breach the armor, then it doesn't matter whether it's a mobile bunker or fast bullet proof car. The occupant is fucked.

as president, any u.s. president, he doesn't have much choice but to be transported in something well armoured, however almost disguised as an almost ordinary passinger highway vehicule. it's just one of those practical realities of providing for the secred service to be able to protect him and all that sort of thing. to me, it would be one of the prices rather then perks of the job, one i would most thoroughly hate, and suspect he's not that happy about it either.

but such is life, certain kinds of jobs, and the authority that goes with them, requires certain kinds of compromises, and that's what i see something like this as being.

For crying out loud, you have the first Black president ever and forget to add spinnas to the wheels?

My only objection is that it's a limo rather than a smaller, more fuel efficient car

that is probably a matter of necessity. You probably just simply can't fit everything you'd need to on a smaller car.

At least it's an american car!

Churchill didn't have to worry about being targeted by Nazi assassins or the IRA either.
Err no.

what a fucking ugly car. i'd probably get a Maybach armoured if i were president

Wouldn't it have been better for him to have a Toyota Camry instead of that thing

I get the feeling some might object to the President of the United States being driven around in a Toyota

what a fucking ugly car. i'd probably get a Maybach armoured if i were president
Aye, or a Bugatti Veyron with rocket boosters or something. Bugger armour when you have SPEEEED. Also a very vroomy engine.

Why exactly would he need SPEED? Presidential motorcades tend to go through...cities. You can't build up too much speed there. The President doesn't exactly go tooling around for long drives in the countryside. He has a plane for that.

Why exactly would he need SPEED? Presidential motorcades tend to go through...cities. You can't build up too much speed there.
I dunno, it gets from 0-60 in 2.4 seconds. That's pretty much decent.
The President doesn't exactly go tooling around for long drives in the countryside. He has a plane for that.
And a damned shame that is.

It's a Beast!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7829475.stm

My only objection is that it's a limo rather than a smaller, more fuel efficient car, but then I tend to look mildly negatively(or at least feel I should, anyway) at anything like this that smacks of high wealth. Call it a case of having an attitude that one is a public servant to do work, not be nobility.

But regardless, it's a very good car for Obama. He'll be well defended. Let's hope the defenses don't have to be used.

It can't be a smaller more fuel efficient car. Armor has mass.

You get to choose - either the car can take massive nearby explosions, maybe an RPG hit, and deflect all rifle and pistol fire as well as stop all grenade fragments and keep driving - or it can be a Prius.

Not both.

Aye, or a Bugatti Veyron with rocket boosters or something. Bugger armour when you have SPEEEED. Also a very vroomy engine.

oh now that's an idea :D

For crying out loud, you have the first Black president ever and forget to add spinnas to the wheels?
Hey, at least the hubcaps are chrome!

I wonder if they put neon lights underneath?!? Does it have hydraulics?

"All my friends know the low rider
The low rider is a little higher
The low rider drives a little slower
Low rider, is a real goer
Hey
Low rider knows every street, yeah
Low rider, is the one to meet, yeah
Low rider don't use no gas now
The low rider don't drive too fast
Take a little trip, take a little trip
Take a little trip and see
Take a little trip, take a little trip
Take a little trip with me"

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y223/GermanNightmare/lowrider.gif

Hey, at least the hubcaps are chrome!

I wonder if they put neon lights underneath?!? Does it have hydraulics
Dancing neons are basically essential. Hopefully he plays a version of the National Anthem remixed by Dr Dre.

Dancing neons are basically essential. Hopefully he plays a version of the National Anthem remixed by Dr Dre.

I'd like to hope, in the interests of relations with Essex, he consents to some tasteful and gratuitious plastic airvents and spoliers as well.

I get the feeling some might object to the President of the United States being driven around in a Toyota

Toyota do build cars in North America - the Camry is, if I'm right, made in Indiana and Kentucky - so it is American-made.

It's also a top-selling car too.

The way I see it, the limo is designed on the principle of keeping its occupant safe and the vehicle retaining mobility
I'm not entirely sure about the mobility. Armored cars usually don't have their engine compartment protected, or at least not to any significant degree. Engine protection, like in proper AFV, is heavy and demanding. This one appears to conform to the traditional scheme with occupant protection only, with the engine they count on luck.


(although if you strap a couple of 155mm shells together under a manhole on a remote detonator, I don't think any amount of armor is going to help), while the escorts neutralize the threat.
That trick with the shells would be hard to do and likely to miss.
Mine protection requires a V-hull, something that makes the car look ugly.


If it faces a full assault team with sufficient power and tactical skill to be hidden during the sweep, take out the escorts, prevent the limo from escaping and breach the armor, then it doesn't matter whether it's a mobile bunker or fast bullet proof car.
It takes less than it seems. It's not a full assault team, it's just someone taking out the front vehicle or otherwise forcing the limo to stop, and then another guy fires a RPG at the President's compartment. That's enough. Whether the limo can escape afterwards matters little.

It's a Beast!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7829475.stm

My only objection is that it's a limo rather than a smaller, more fuel efficient car, but then I tend to look mildly negatively(or at least feel I should, anyway) at anything like this that smacks of high wealth. Call it a case of having an attitude that one is a public servant to do work, not be nobility.

Change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan huh.

Aye, or a Bugatti Veyron with rocket boosters or something. Bugger armour when you have SPEEEED. Also a very vroomy engine.
Why stop at a simple Bugatti? Give him a Group B Lancia Delta! Two seconds from 0 to 60, even less from 60 to zero, top speed never bothered to measure, can turn on a dime, switchback or do 180s at a hundred miles per hour, and can thrust at a hundred fifty through a bumpy dirt track in the forest.

Now that's speed for the President.

Why stop at a simple Bugatti? Give him a Group B Lancia Delta! Two seconds from 0 to 60, even less from 60 to zero, top speed never bothered to measure, turns on a dime, and can thrust at a hundred miles through a bumpy forest trail.

Get an M1A2. You can ignore traffic, drive over most obstacles, blow up the rest, and travel over most terrain without problems.

Get an M1A2. You can ignore traffic, drive over most obstacles, blow up the rest, and travel over most terrain without problems.
Too slow, there's no fun in it.

But with a Lancia Delta as the state car, the Presidential Rallies will no longer be so boring!

Needs more bling.

Change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan huh.

I heard he's still calling the office 'President.' THATS NOT CHANGE! HES A LIAR! :rolleyes:

I heard he's still calling the office 'President.' THATS NOT CHANGE! HES A LIAR! :rolleyes:

and I don't see a single monkey, walrus or trained monkey on his cabinet.

Some fucking change

and I don't see a single monkey, walrus or trained monkey on his cabinet.

Some fucking change

We already had a monkey, so putting a monkey in wouldn't be change.

We already had a monkey, so putting a monkey in wouldn't be change.

note, I said "trained". I also point out that for the sake of technicality, a chimp is not a monkey.

I'm not entirely sure about the mobility. Armored cars usually don't have their engine compartment protected, or at least not to any significant degree. Engine protection, like in proper AFV, is heavy and demanding. This one appears to conform to the traditional scheme with occupant protection only, with the engine they count on luck.


Fair enough.


That trick with the shells would be hard to do and likely to miss.
Mine protection requires a V-hull, something that makes the car look ugly.


How's it likely to miss? Just wait until the car is over the manhole cover and press the button. If you have the time and skill, you could probably try and weld a thick steel barrel around it with the top open to create a cheap shaped charge. Easy to spot if they checked the sewers beforehand, certainly, but missing? Can't see that. It's no shaped charge, but it'll do a bang up job of turning the limo into scrap metal.


It takes less than it seems. It's not a full assault team, it's just someone taking out the front vehicle or otherwise forcing the limo to stop, and then another guy fires a RPG at the President's compartment. That's enough. Whether the limo can escape afterwards matters little.

In this scenario, regardless of car performance (unless it's something really off the wall), the occupant is still a sitting duck.

However, taking out the front vehicle isn't likely to work unless the roads are really narrow and not conducive to off road antics.

In either case, you describe a two shot scenario. That means you either have to take two shots consecutively, or have two separate anti-tank pairs. The first option means you're likely to be killed while reloading. The second option makes the car performance moot.

Of course, the limo could be hiding something funky like a popup ARENA or TROPHY defense system.

Lacks the defense of speed though, it's seriously slow. Probably takes minutes to change course as well. Once you're cornered, armor alone is little defense - it may stop bullets, but won't stand a RPG, these things cut a lot more armor than it has, and they aren't all that rare today. The only defense against RPGs viable on a car is reactive armor or an active protection system like Arena or Trophy.


They ought have taken an S-class with AMG engine as the base. Though I see why they'd use diesel, could be because diesel fuel is far less flammable, but they could take a good one, say the V12 diesel from Audi Q7. It wouldn't become sporty, but at least it wouldn't top out at 60mph and take 15 seconds to get there either.

Mercedes are pros at armored cars, so they would also still be able to use a reinforced car chassis rather than a truck one, which means an ability to turn.
You really think that's the full specifications? Come on. That limo's probably faster than the specs say.

Also: lulz at armor protected gas tank. Gas tanks won't explode if you shoot them anyway...no need to protect it that much for that reason. To keep fuel from leaking and potentially making the vehicle run out, sure, but not to keep it from exploding...

that is probably a matter of necessity. You probably just simply can't fit everything you'd need to on a smaller car.

At least it's an american car!

True.

How's it likely to miss? Just wait until the car is over the manhole cover and press the button.
By the car not passing over the manhole at all, or passing with just a wheel.
Then there's hitting the president and not the engine or the trunk.


However, taking out the front vehicle isn't likely to work unless the roads are really narrow and not conducive to off road antics.
It's that exact case where the road is not narrow or offroading is possible. So the USA 1 can drive around the front car... but not so easily.

It will need to either sharply maneuver around it, or brake hard, roll back, drive. And that's where performance comes in. An armored BMW 760Li or Mercedes S-Guard could do that. A truck chassis, however, doesn't lend to good cornering, and poor acceleration will give the attackers enough time to hit with a good accuracy.


Of course, the limo could be hiding something funky like a popup ARENA or TROPHY defense system.
Not within these space, mass and cost constraints. These systems aren't compact, and the vehicle has little space to spare, with a large diesel in the front, proper interior, and a proper trunk.

Change you can believe in, his own campaign slogan huh.

Have you heard hes going to open relations with Cuba?

He has however banned Elian Gonzalez from ever setting foot here.

You really think that's the full specifications? Come on. That limo's probably faster than the specs say.
That would be fairly hard to achieve, unless it's something entirely different under the skin than the specs say. American engines are not very good, and diesels especially. So the 6.5L must be a truck engine, which most likely would be the Detroit 6.5L V8 from the Humvee. That would struggle to pull it even in 20 seconds, however.
I presume it's the best US has in that segment - a Duramax LMM 6.6L turbo diesel, which makes sense as it's used in the same truck the chassis is taken from. That, with a weight of 4.something tons, gives a logical acceleration of 15 seconds from 0 to 60, though that's the best case. As for the top speed, it's almost certainly limited by the truck chassis and drivetrain used - Kodiak is a proper commercial lorry, not a mom's SUV. Though I expect it to actually be around 70 mph, but practically, in the engine's power band, it's about 60.


Also: lulz at armor protected gas tank. Gas tanks won't explode if you shoot them anyway...no need to protect it that much for that reason. To keep fuel from leaking and potentially making the vehicle run out, sure, but not to keep it from exploding...
It's probably to avoid a fire around the vehicle, which makes it difficult or impossible to get out.
Though diesel fuel is hard to ignite anyway.

I cant decide which annoys me more. The star struck swooning, or the right wing paranoia and baseless fear mongering.


I think that the swooning and the paranoia will die down as soon as he is actually elected into office and doing something. As long as he doesn't screw up, the right should be quiet. Although I do have to say that your baseless attacks on the right wing is getting old, might I suggest you change up your material? The Left and Right always hissy fit for a while, the left did it in 2000 and 2004, and now the right is doing it in 2008, get over it.

Have you heard hes going to open relations with Cuba?


Oh well there is a disaster literally waiting to happen.

It can't be a smaller more fuel efficient car. Armor has mass.
Well, actually it can...

A smaller car also has less area to armor. So even reinforced, both the car and the armor are much lighter.

The President should get an armored 356 for a CHANGE. It's got space for the President and First Lady in the front, two bodyguards in the back, all the survival equipment between the front wheels, and a nice flat-four between the rear wheels, all in just 1,700 pounds! Four seats, leather interior, what else do you need? Uparmor it with another 1,300-1,700 lbs (the limo in question probably has 3,000 lbs, but remember, surface area!), so it's just as safe. Give it 911 springs and shocks to cope with the new weight, a modernized engine, and you're all set. It will do 30 miles to the gallon, and still outpace your normal family car by a long shot.

Just imagine that.

Oh well there is a disaster literally waiting to happen.
How so?

Clinton will open negotiations, tell them to give up communism, and when they say 'no', the embargo will continue as-was.

Why exactly would he need SPEED? Presidential motorcades tend to go through...cities. You can't build up too much speed there. The President doesn't exactly go tooling around for long drives in the countryside. He has a plane for that.

Unless streets are shut down and your motorcade is flanked with police

Too slow, there's no fun in it.

But with a Lancia Delta as the state car, the Presidential Rallies will no longer be so boring!

Too slow? Pop the governor off and you can get an Abrams well above 55 MPH. It's the condition of the streets after it passes that you need to worry about. While that's no 200, it is rather more protected and fun.

By the car not passing over the manhole at all, or passing with just a wheel.
Then there's hitting the president and not the engine or the trunk.

Fair enough. But even if the limo doesn't go over the manhole, the combined explosive punch of several 155mm shells going off in the sewers is likely to turn that part of the road into a crater. No limo or fast car is going to be able to drive out of that, assuming it still works once it falls in.

Still, route foreknowledge and planning are a must.


It's that exact case where the road is not narrow or offroading is possible. So the USA 1 can drive around the front car... but not so easily.

It will need to either sharply maneuver around it, or brake hard, roll back, drive. And that's where performance comes in. An armored BMW 760Li or Mercedes S-Guard could do that. A truck chassis, however, doesn't lend to good cornering, and poor acceleration will give the attackers enough time to hit with a good accuracy.

But isn't the presidential limo sitting in the middle of a convoy? Taking out the front vehicle closes off the rear until the the escorts at the back get their act together.

That being said, if you're a good enough shot with an RPG to make a first strike on the lead elements without being detected beforehand, why not wait a bit and make the first shot on the limo?


Not within these space, mass and cost constraints. These systems aren't compact, and the vehicle has little space to spare, with a large diesel in the front, proper interior, and a proper trunk.

True, I forgot that about the weight and power draws of ARENA and TROPHY. But weren't they making a lightweight version of TROPHY for things like the Golan LAV?