NationStates Jolt Archive

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family? As for me, this economy is making it harder for me to find a job (well harder than it originally was when all I had to do was to meet non-shallow idiots) and right now I'm just trying to find any job that I can do, even if it calls for only a High School Graduate. It also cause my dad to change careers because the Philip Morris plant was shutting down, and my uncle may be losing his job at the Freightliner plant we have here.

So how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?

I was broke when the economy started sliding down the slippery slope, and I am broke still. So actually I am unchanged in this economy.

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family?

Almost zero. I merely had to move a part of my savings from a guaranteed bond (with a bonus linked to futures) to a plain bond guaranteed by the post service, because the interest rates for plain bonds are now better.

Also, I'm enjoying a sharp fall of the prices of petrol and real hard-discount sales in some of the best shops in Milan.

Now I'm considering applying for a credit card. I guess I can get good terms right now, since I never had my bank account fall below 2k€ in the last 4 years.

So far the economy has touched me very little. I'm noting that groceries are a bit more expensive and gas a lot less so (so far). My credit has suffered a little, but my position in that regard isn't as bad as some, because my home and car are paid for. My daughter is employed so I'm no longer supporting her and my son just got a promotion with a raise, so he's good.

The only real effect is fewer dinners out, more library books and a decision on my part to forego looking for a job since I don't need one and think that it would be ethically wrong for me to take a job someone else might need if I don't need it (wow, that was a convoluted sentence). So, I volunteer and take inexpensive or free classes.

I'm doing pretty well, actually. I'm self-employed and live fairly simply, my house and my truck are paid for, so I've been relatively unaffected. Although I am glad the price of gas went back down to where it should be, that makes things easier.

Although I am glad the price of gas went back down to where it should be, that makes things easier.Yeah, you can thank Obama for that. :)

OP - it hasn't affected me except to begin ignoring obnoxious, desperate right-wing bullshit emails from family members who really should've learned better by now.

That, and i'm not so likely to be cavalier regarding my employment as i might otherwise've been.

I did for the first time get change back when putting down $20 to fill my tank of gas, twice.

Yeah, you can thank Obama for that.

Yeah, I'm sure that was all him :rolleyes: He's still being weighed in the balance with me, we'll see what he gets up to once he's in.

Yeah, I'm sure that was all him :rolleyes: He's still being weighed in the balance with me, we'll see what he gets up to once he's in.Well, i appreciate you looking at it fairly. :)

It hasn't actually gotten bad yet. This is just the deceleration phase. You should wait until the wider economy really starts to see the effects pass through. Like I am saying high double digit unemployment. 2009 will get progressively much worse until everyone thinks the entire world is ending. Things will bottom in 2010, but it will be so bad nobody will notice. Then there will be a weak recovery, a sort of persistent recession for a couple of years until the millennials start having kids. It's like this:

Lacadaemon's Economic Cycle

Depression - > Unemployment - > Idleness - > Boredom - > Fucking - > Babies -> Consumption - > Recovery.

It's the circle of life.

Well, i appreciate you looking at it fairly. :)

I wouldn't give me too much credit. At best, I'm open to the idea that there is a chance he might not be completely terrible. On the other hand, you can't really judge a man's job performance until he takes the job, so we'll see...

Like I am saying high double digit unemployment. 2009 will get progressively much worse until everyone thinks the entire world is ending. Things will bottom in 2010, but it will be so bad nobody will notice.

I think that's kind of pessimistic. I don't really think it'll be that bad.

I think that's kind of pessimistic. I don't really think it'll be that bad.

I am expecting a 20% drop in GDP over the next 18-24 months. This is the typical outcome in the aftermath of a banking crisis.

I am expecting a 20% drop in GDP over the next 18-24 months. This is the typical outcome in the aftermath of a banking crisis.

So, I shouldn't expect to find a job anytime soon? Well what am I to do about money?

Because of it, I got a job.. So went from being unemployed and on a sickness benefit to getting a good short-term farming job.

So, I shouldn't expect to find a job anytime soon? Well what am I to do about money?

Depends on the job you are looking for. But in general, no.

We are going to see a million + layoffs a month in 2009. (It is near 600,000 now).

Depends on the job you are looking for. But in general, no.

We are going to see a million + layoffs a month in 2009. (It is near 600,000 now).

Well maybe John Titor will be right about one thing, about America being turned into loose confederates of City-States.

Well maybe John Titor will be right about one thing, about America being turned into loose confederates of City-States.

Yes, I believe that is one likely outcome. There is almost certainly going to be civil unrest.

Yes, I believe that is one likely outcome. There is almost certainly going to be civil unrest.

I don't know, I think you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. Things might be bumpy, but I doubt we're going to see massive un-employment or the breakdown of civilization.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Lacadaemon/usdebt.jpg

No. I don't think I am. It's never going to be paid. So...

Stimulus is a waste of time too.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Lacadaemon/akcswwwzc3.jpg

The above is just an approximate chart prepared by pimco. We are already at the zero hour.

Too late, nothing can be done. It's over.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v719/Lacadaemon/Charles_Ponzi_449351a.jpg

How about we all just curl up into little balls, rock back and forth, and moan like little girls with skinned knees then?

Or alternatively, we could suck it up, do what we can, and not worry about the rest.

Eh? I'm not worried about it. I'm just pointing out what is going to happen, and there is nothing that can be done about it. It's one of those periodic reset of the economy type things that happens.

Oh, and there is no "we" in this. These problems aren't mine. And I resent any implication that I should treat them as such.

Oh, and there is no "we" in this. These problems aren't mine. And I resent any implication that I should treat them as such.

You can 'resent' anything you like. You think that if America goes tits-up, the rest of the world is just going to soldier on unconcernedly? If the American economy crashes, the rest of the world is going to be in pretty rough shape as well, if not worse off.

I got a new job without having to change my work place, got a 7% pay rise and a EUR 3000 "loyalty bonus", and all for continuing to do the work I've done for years.

Or doesn't this count as "woes"? :tongue:

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family? As for me, this economy is making it harder for me to find a job (well harder than it originally was when all I had to do was to meet non-shallow idiots) and right now I'm just trying to find any job that I can do, even if it calls for only a High School Graduate. It also cause my dad to change careers because the Philip Morris plant was shutting down, and my uncle may be losing his job at the Freightliner plant we have here.

So how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?

We've been planning to buy a house around this time now... guess who can't get a mortgage to finance it. :(

Other than that, we're fine. If anything, the current situation has made both our jobs more secure.

If anything, training to be a civil engineer at a time when the government is looking to pump money into the systems I'm planning on working on as a career helps a lot...

the banks are being pretty shit, taking every opportunity to screw our business, and us personally, out of money. new charges we've never seen before, overlimit overdraft charged at £30 per day, £600 for a meeting they scheduled (which used to be free), £600 a month for the honour of banking with them, taking over a month to close an account (something that used to take 3-5 days) just so they can charge us for that month extra as well as some random new charges. this is all with one of the newly part-nationalised banks who are supposed to be treating small businesses well :mad:

clients delaying their payment, cashflow problems (hence the overdraft thing), laid off one employee so far.

not really looking too good. some big projects on the horizon, but getting there will be tricky :(

You can 'resent' anything you like. You think that if America goes tits-up, the rest of the world is just going to soldier on unconcernedly? If the American economy crashes, the rest of the world is going to be in pretty rough shape as well, if not worse off.

I live in the states. But I tell you again, this has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'll be just fine: thank you for your concern about my well being however.

We've been planning to buy a house around this time now... guess who can't get a mortgage to finance it. :(


Yes, but that's a good thing. When you eventually get to buy a house the price will be so much lower you will be a lot better off. Especially since you both have secure jobs apparently.

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family? As for me, this economy is making it harder for me to find a job (well harder than it originally was when all I had to do was to meet non-shallow idiots) and right now I'm just trying to find any job that I can do, even if it calls for only a High School Graduate. It also cause my dad to change careers because the Philip Morris plant was shutting down, and my uncle may be losing his job at the Freightliner plant we have here.

So how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?

For me, the economy hasn't really impacted on me much. I am a bit more careful about my spending, but otherwise, things are pretty smooth. For my mother, she has had to cut on hours because the business she is working for hasn't had much business due to the downturn. For my father, things are about the same as for me - not much impact.

Not much of a problem for me at the moment. Everybody needs healthcare so I'm fairly secure (I don't see us losing 5000 patients over this, especially not the NHS ones).
My Dad feeling under pressure though. The bank has increased his target for the quarter and yet he's a mortgage advisor of all things. So, the banks aren't lending to people for mortgages yet they've increased the sales target for their employees. I think they're trying to fire staff somehow...

I live in the states. But I tell you again, this has absolutely nothing to do with me. I'll be just fine: thank you for your concern about my well being however.

Apparently John Donne was wrong, and you are an island. :rolleyes:

Yes, but that's a good thing. When you eventually get to buy a house the price will be so much lower you will be a lot better off. Especially since you both have secure jobs apparently.

I know, that's what I keep telling myself as well.
And truth be told, we've seen houses drop into our financial price range that we couldn't even have dreamed of 4 months ago... let's just hope the banks make up their minds sooner rather than later, cause I'm getting sick losing money on rent each month.

I know, that's what I keep telling myself as well.
And truth be told, we've seen houses drop into our financial price range that we couldn't even have dreamed of 4 months ago... let's just hope the banks make up their minds sooner rather than later, cause I'm getting sick losing money on rent each month.

Yeah, but the reality is, if it takes even quite a while longer, you'll end up looking back and being glad that it did, because that meant you missed a lot of downside. Which really is far worse than paying a little extra rent.

Apparently John Donne was wrong, and you are an island. :rolleyes:

Well he was half welsh and a poet, so I think his being wrong is a bit of an inevitability.

Yeah, but the reality is, if it takes even quite a while longer, you'll end up looking back and being glad that it did, because that meant you missed a lot of downside. Which really is far worse than paying a little extra rent.

True, but as houseprices are going down, rents are going up here. More people having to rent and all that. And the rents in Ireland were ridiculously high to begin with.
Personally, I'm paying nearly 1/3 of my monthly income on rent, and I'm sharing with my BF, living in a house on the outskirts of a rather small town. I'm kind of worried the landlord will decide to raise the rent even more... :(

True, but as houseprices are going down, rents are going up here. More people having to rent and all that. And the rents in Ireland were ridiculously high to begin with.
Personally, I'm paying nearly 1/3 of my monthly income on rent, and I'm sharing with my BF, living in a house on the outskirts of a rather small town. I'm kind of worried the landlord will decide to raise the rent even more... :(

Yeah, but rents will probably start to go back down again as the economy worsens. That's a certainty.

The same stuff was touted in the states - how rents were going to go up and renters would get squeezed (and in the UK too) - but it never happened. I personally think it was a ploy by estate agents to try and move product.

how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?
In 2004 I took voluntary redundancy and went back to University. I graduated in July last year and since then have been looking for a job, without success. There are some jobs available in my discipline, but none are anywhere near where I live and very few of them offer an entry-level salary even remotely comparable to my wife's current rate of pay. We've discussed the idea of moving away but, unless something truly golden pops up, it simply isn't worth upping sticks and moving somewhere else.

I have a close friend who lost his job in September and who has no formal qualifications whatsoever - he's currently living with his parents (at the age of 45). Another friend of mine shelled out £1.5m on a new house two years ago and since then has seen the value of his realty business drop by more than half and, with this trend likely to continue, he's getting noticeably twitchier week by week.

It's pretty grim, especially since my wife's salary is high enough that I don't even qualify for any benefits, but it could be a hell of a lot worse, so I refuse to get depressed about it.

It's been a mix of good and bad news in our household. The company I work for restructured and I managed to jump up 2 grades (with an extra £6.5k per year rise). At the same time my wifes school took all her hours away from her (she's a teaching assistant). Our mortage is low, but fixed for another 2 years so I've not felt the interest rate cut. My savings are mostly in a work share scheme with a fixed return, so they are safe.
Saying that, I'm still pessimistic about the economy for this year, and feel really sorry for the people affected by the massive job cuts announced every day

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family? As for me, this economy is making it harder for me to find a job (well harder than it originally was when all I had to do was to meet non-shallow idiots) and right now I'm just trying to find any job that I can do, even if it calls for only a High School Graduate. It also cause my dad to change careers because the Philip Morris plant was shutting down, and my uncle may be losing his job at the Freightliner plant we have here.

So how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?

I'm thinking about getting a mortgage broker's license and getting in on all the refinancing that's going on.

I think that's kind of pessimistic. I don't really think it'll be that bad.
I wouldn't be so sure. US unemployment figures are already at 7.2% and no-one's expecting the economy to turn anytime soon. 10+% unemployment is a definite possibility.
cue:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCGcljqOSW0

My income this year was down sharply, but my wife's was not. We curbed our spending, canceled some remodeing on the house we were planning, clipped some coupons, ate out less and that was about it. Fortunately, my long-term investments weren't hit very hard so the future looks good.

I lost the opportunity to get a job that thanks to the economy never came into existence. Other than that it really has had no effect.

Credit is shot, I'm broke as hell, and no one really has money to pay me for mechanic work.

I'm screwed.

I'm doing well as I've been spending like mad lately and work doesn't seem to care (the price of Haribo has gone up though leading to many "back in my day" rants)

however now its January and I'm trying to save :mad:

even if it calls for only a High School Graduate.

omg you poor thing! *offers wilgrove some old blankets I have in the garage*

At the same time my wifes school took all her hours away from her (she's a teaching assistant).

that works by ratios surely? :confused:

no one really has money to pay me for mechanic work.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?feature=related&v=BvgZU6UwoWY

It hasn't actually gotten bad yet. This is just the deceleration phase. You should wait until the wider economy really starts to see the effects pass through. Like I am saying high double digit unemployment. 2009 will get progressively much worse until everyone thinks the entire world is ending. Things will bottom in 2010, but it will be so bad nobody will notice. Then there will be a weak recovery, a sort of persistent recession for a couple of years until the millennials start having kids. It's like this:

Lacadaemon's Economic Cycle

Depression - > Unemployment - > Idleness - > Boredom - > Fucking - > Babies -> Consumption - > Recovery.

It's the circle of life.

And this year's Nobel Prize for Economics goes to Lacadaemon...

My contract ended around the time the financial systems broke down. Still looking for a job.

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family?
My family is generally unaffected. If anything, I'd say we're feeling in a better mood, since we have something of a sense of schaudenfreude over the nature of economics. At the minute, I'm doing volunteer work, but my job prospects both where I am and in the field I'm proficient are actually excellent, thanks to many more local companies starting up software wings rather than outsourcing.

I'm a student. S'all good.

I'm unemployed AND my employer contested my unemployment benefits. Thus, I have no income.

That bad enough for you?

I'm a student. S'all good.

oh god thats awful :(

oh god thats awful :(
Nah it's great.

That bad enough for you?

think about it this way: you now have the excuse to work anywhere thats hiring regardless of social pressure

be a bin man they seem to be doing pretty well here

Nah it's great.

isn't EMA like £30 a week? I spend more than that on lunches >.>

Having no job at the moment. Hope to have one soon.

I hate the lack of money and I hate the boredom.

isn't EMA like £30 a week? I spend more than that on lunches >.>
... aye am at uni, so I'm getting about £4.5k as a loan, another fifteen hundred quid for being awesome from the uni itself, and whatever else I earn. Good times.

In the newspaper was a story about a man who lost his job 4 months ago and he didn’t dare to tell it to his wife, family and friends. Four months he pretended everyday going out working and at evening he told his wife fantasized office stories.

He was just ashamed.

It’s freaking to see what a job loss can do with someone his or her brain.

I'm thinking about getting a mortgage broker's license and getting in on all the refinancing that's going on.

I'm either going to start my own business, or I'll get a Class A CDL and start doing some Over the Road Trucking.

*Throws BA in trash*

In the newspaper was a story about a man who lost his job 4 months ago and he didn’t dare to tell it to his wife, family and friends. Four months he pretended everyday going out working and at evening he told his wife fantasized office stories.

He was just ashamed.

It’s freaking to see what a job loss can do with someone his or her brain.

At least that's better than what they did when the Depression hit, which was to basically kill themselves.

...another fifteen hundred quid for being awesome from the uni itself
You bastid.

Good times.
I'd fully agree.

There may not be a huge amount of cash floating about, but I can live very comfortably with a frugal existence, and as I have no money invested in anything, I'm not suddenly going to lose a huge amount of my wealth. Being a student in the UK, if not a cushty experience, is certainly pleasant.

It really hasn't effected me personally because I just got back from Iraq where they paid me well enough, so I have a bit of a nest egg. Also, I'm on a fixed government income while I'm a student so it still doesn't effect me. However, many of my friends are out of work and a few restaurants I liked closed while I was gone. Oddly enough, my town has the second lowest unemployment in the state (about 6.5%) and is actually below the national average (unlike my hometown, which is about 14% unemployment).

Of course, we've been in a recession for almost a decade so this recent financial crisis was just adding a bit to the economic misery. Now, if/when the Big 3 collapse then I'll really be in trouble and probably be all "Road Warrior" shortly.

Perhaps I should start stockpiling ammo...

It really hasn't effected me personally because I just got back from Iraq where they paid me well enough, so I have a bit of a nest egg. Also, I'm on a fixed government income while I'm a student so it still doesn't effect me. However, many of my friends are out of work and a few restaurants I liked closed while I was gone. Oddly enough, my town has the second lowest unemployment in the state (about 6.5%) and is actually below the national average (unlike my hometown, which is about 14% unemployment).

Of course, we've been in a recession for almost a decade so this recent financial crisis was just adding a bit to the economic misery. Now, if/when the Big 3 collapse then I'll really be in trouble and probably be all "Road Warrior" shortly.

Perhaps I should start stockpiling ammo...

14%? wow

And in reality it's more. Politicians, here, invented all kind of fake labels for not being called 'unemployed'.
That way they don't count you as unemployed, which is better for the image of the politician.

And those species are everywhere the same...

It really hasn't effected me personally because I just got back from Iraq where they paid me well enough, so I have a bit of a nest egg. Also, I'm on a fixed government income while I'm a student so it still doesn't effect me. However, many of my friends are out of work and a few restaurants I liked closed while I was gone. Oddly enough, my town has the second lowest unemployment in the state (about 6.5%) and is actually below the national average (unlike my hometown, which is about 14% unemployment).

Of course, we've been in a recession for almost a decade so this recent financial crisis was just adding a bit to the economic misery. Now, if/when the Big 3 collapse then I'll really be in trouble and probably be all "Road Warrior" shortly.

Perhaps I should start stockpiling ammo...

Yeah, MI's economy has been affected in the recent years quite a lot. When I was living there something like 4-5 years ago, the car manufacturing plants were already cutting back on the payroll (when I was there, around 11,000 people were laid off) and a lot of places in Lansing (to cite an example), were undergoing foreclosure or had closed completely.

14%? wow

14% is nothing. Parts of Detroit are up to 30%.

edit:

Oh, and it would be rather higher if people weren't fleeing the state like rats on a sinking ship. Since the rest of the country took a crap except unemployment in Michigan to reach over 10% very shortly as people don't have places to flee to.

14% is nothing. Parts of Detroit are up to 30%.
Fuck.

14% is nothing. Parts of Detroit are up to 30%.

That is dangerous.

When will they revolt?

Fuck.

Yeah, but no one cares, they're just black people. Let the Big 3 sink, the bastards.

That is dangerous.

When will they revolt?

1967 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12th_Street_Riot)

In the newspaper was a story about a man who lost his job 4 months ago and he didn’t dare to tell it to his wife, family and friends. Four months he pretended everyday going out working and at evening he told his wife fantasized office stories.

He was just ashamed.

It’s freaking to see what a job loss can do with someone his or her brain.
One wonders what he did about the imaginary money. I could tell my wife stories about the office all year long, but if she couldn't pay the bills, it wouldn't matter.

Certainly after four months, she would determine that I needed to have an accident that would allow for my life insurance to be paid.

In the newspaper was a story about a man who lost his job 4 months ago and he didn’t dare to tell it to his wife, family and friends. Four months he pretended everyday going out working and at evening he told his wife fantasized office stories.

my boss used to do that says its helped him more than school and all his previous job combined in terms of what he learned

Istart doing some Over the Road Trucking

if you ever lose your job your family will never go hungry as long as you have this license.

just don't lose your job for drink driving and remember that its a shite job

... aye am at uni, so I'm getting about £4.5k as a loan, another fifteen hundred quid for being awesome from the uni itself, and whatever else I earn. Good times.

Being a student in the UK, if not a cushty experience, is certainly pleasant.

bastards! every time I go on NS I start looking at college :mad:

snip

just think about being one of the few guys in the state who can put food on the table :)

One wonders what he did about the imaginary money. I could tell my wife stories about the office all year long, but if she couldn't pay the bills, it wouldn't matter.

Certainly after four months, she would determine that I needed to have an accident that would allow for my life insurance to be paid.

I don't know. Maybe he used some spare money or he signed a loan.

In the newspaper was a story about a man who lost his job 4 months ago and he didn’t dare to tell it to his wife, family and friends. Four months he pretended everyday going out working and at evening he told his wife fantasized office stories.

He was just ashamed.

It’s freaking to see what a job loss can do with someone his or her brain.

sounds like the movie Falling Down. he ends up killing people and shooting up a burger joint (in a strangely hilarious way...)

sounds like the movie Falling Down. he ends up killing people and shooting up a burger joint (in a strangely hilarious way...)

This is not America. We don't do that, guns ;)

You bastid.
PFFFT. The only reason I'm not pretty much super poor is because I got very good grades at A-Level, which mean that the uni pays about half of my yearly rent.
I'd fully agree.

There may not be a huge amount of cash floating about, but I can live very comfortably with a frugal existence, and as I have no money invested in anything, I'm not suddenly going to lose a huge amount of my wealth. Being a student in the UK, if not a cushty experience, is certainly pleasant.
Aye.

just think about being one of the few guys in the state who can put food on the table :)

In most of the state it's just rough, it's only in Detroit where shit is really, really bad.

Recent article about Detroit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28327490/)

if you ever lose your job your family will never go hungry as long as you have this license.

just don't lose your job for drink driving and remember that its a shite job

Well at least I'll have a job. As of right now, I'm still doing research on it though. I'm hoping that I do 3 years of ORT, and then I could get a regional job that'll keep me closer to home.

I don't know. Maybe he used some spare money or he signed a loan.
I'll bet he paid the bills every month. Or not. But his wife didn't know anything about it until the dunning calls came.

In most of the state it's just rough, it's only in Detroit where shit is really, really bad.

Recent article about Detroit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28327490/)
Christ. A massive loss of jobs in one sector having knock-on affects for the rest of the city? Who'd have thunk it?

In most of the state it's just rough, it's only in Detroit where shit is really, really bad.

Recent article about Detroit (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28327490/)

Here it is official 13.5%, but I assume it's about 20%

Everyday, big companies are closing or fire people massively.

I hate banks, I really hate them.

I hate banks, I really hate them.

You sound like my grandma, she lived through the great depression, so she doesn't trust banks either.

I'll bet he paid the bills every month. Or not. But his wife didn't know anything about it until the dunning calls came.

I don't know the details but in many households there is just one financial minister. The other partner doesn't check anything and as long as everything seems normal, you can go with the flow...

The recession for me has not had many major effects, it mainly has just meant I've had to watch my money much more carefully, and cut back on certain things, which I don't really miss.

The only really annoying one is the fact that my car just got completely ruined, and I can't fix it.

Christ. A massive loss of jobs in one sector having knock-on affects for the rest of the city? Who'd have thunk it?
And this is the state where the governor is giving the BO tax plan a trial run. Governor Granholm decided that raising taxes, after 18 months of statewide recession, was a good way to boost revenue...

Officials in Lansing reported this month that the state faces a revenue shortfall between $350 million and $550 million next budget year. This is a major embarrassment for Governor Jennifer Granholm, the second-term Democrat who shut down the state government last year until the Legislature approved Michigan's biggest tax hike in a generation. Her tax plan raised the state income tax rate to 4.35% from 3.9%, and increased the state's tax on gross business receipts by 22%. Ms. Granholm argued that these new taxes would raise some $1.3 billion in new revenue that could be "invested" in social spending and new businesses and lead to a Michigan renaissance.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121192942396124327.html
But, hey, it will work if BO does it, right?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121192942396124327.html
But, hey, it will work if BO does it, right?

Of course it will! Because he's Obama! He promise us Change and Hope! Sure Politicians lie out of their asses, but Obama is different, surely he isn't just another politician, right?

I'm hoping that I do 3 years of ORT, and then I could get a regional job that'll keep me closer to home.

I thought you needed a job? are you flying drugs across the border to pay for all this:tongue:

I hate banks, I really hate them.

the banks will take note of this next time you need a loan

SNIP

maybe its time to start importing Eastern European politicians seeing as how they seem to know what they are doing

Of course it will! Because he's Obama! He promise us Change and Hope! Sure Politicians lie out of their asses, but Obama is different, surely he isn't just another politician, right?

well the NHS has ended up the worlds second largest government employer after the Chinese army iirc...hmm I wonder how many people in Detroit would like to go to medical school

And this is the state where the governor is giving the BO tax plan a trial run. Governor Granholm decided that raising taxes, after 18 months of statewide recession, was a good way to boost revenue...

Officials in Lansing reported this month that the state faces a revenue shortfall between $350 million and $550 million next budget year. This is a major embarrassment for Governor Jennifer Granholm, the second-term Democrat who shut down the state government last year until the Legislature approved Michigan's biggest tax hike in a generation. Her tax plan raised the state income tax rate to 4.35% from 3.9%, and increased the state's tax on gross business receipts by 22%. Ms. Granholm argued that these new taxes would raise some $1.3 billion in new revenue that could be "invested" in social spending and new businesses and lead to a Michigan renaissance.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121192942396124327.html
But, hey, it will work if BO does it, right?

When you simply don't have enough money to continue essential state services, such as unemployment and child healthcare, where else are you going to get the money?

And it's the "biggest tax hike in a generation" because John Engler lowered taxes in the 90s and restructured the business taxes in such a way that only really worked during boom times. We paid for everything with the ridiculous Single Business Tax which stopped working for us once the SUV bubble popped.

Also, Granholm's plans have nothing to do with Obama. She's been trying to restructure the state's tax code for years, but the Republicans (particularly Mike Bishop in the Senate) have refused to compromise even the slightest. Notably, in the 11th hour prior to the 2006 election the Republicans (expecting a drubbing) repealed the Single Business Tax without proposing an alternative, leaving it to the new Democratic House to deal with.

I mean sure, Granholm hasn't been anywhere near perfect. She's had some harebrained ideas (the Cool Cities project) and not quite enough in the way of testicular fortitude but she's done a hell of a lot better than Posthumous or DeVos would have done.

So far I am ok.

When the shrub was re-elected I had a gut feeling that things would go to crap.

I termed all credit cards and my outstanding debt is about $2000(couple bad things happened). The wifey got employed and we are banking extra pay. Once the debt is eliminated I will be happy.

I want to refinance for a lower rate but the banks are being assholes about it.....

I want to refinance for a lower rate but the banks are being assholes about it.....

If you're making payments on your current rate, banks will be unwilling to refinance at a lower rate. That's the way it is, especially with the foreclosure crisis still being as awful as it is.

When you simply don't have enough money to continue essential state services, such as unemployment and child healthcare, where else are you going to get the money?

What would you do in your household? Mortgage payment comes first. Cell phone is last. ( Your priorities may vary) Start with the least important thing and start cutting until you can pay for the most important thing. Cut, cut, cut. Quit eating out, quit going to movies.

That's exactly what a good government should do. It should not raise taxes on the businesses that you depend on to employ people and then on the people that you depend on to consume.

If you're making payments on your current rate, banks will be unwilling to refinance at a lower rate. That's the way it is, especially with the foreclosure crisis still being as awful as it is.

Oh I know. It's a rather stupid approach because it makes me hostile. Eventually things will get better and I will not remain with this bank.

Never mind the fact that if I have a good record, a lower rate improves the chance I will not be foreclosed.....

But that is American Businessmen.....

I thought you needed a job? are you flying drugs across the border to pay for all this:tongue:

lol, well I will take any job that I can get, but from what I've heard from other truckers is that most regional carriers want some Over the Road Experience on your application, and most of them ask for 1-2 years OTR experiences. So I figure I travel the country (and Canada) for three years, and then see if I can't get a job with a regional carrier.

What would you do in your household? Mortgage payment comes first. Cell phone is last. ( Your priorities may vary) Start with the least important thing and start cutting until you can pay for the most important thing. Cut, cut, cut. Quit eating out, quit going to movies.

That's exactly what a good government should do. It should not raise taxes on the businesses that you depend on to employ people and then on the people that you depend on to consume.

We should also all but eliminate veterans benefits right?

That's exactly what a good government should do. It should not raise taxes on the businesses that you depend on to employ people and then on the people that you depend on to consume.

why don't we just admit that its a lost cause and abandon the city?

lol, well I will take any job that I can get, but from what I've heard from other truckers is that most regional carriers want some Over the Road Experience on your application, and most of them ask for 1-2 years OTR experiences. So I figure I travel the country (and Canada) for three years, and then see if I can't get a job with a regional carrier.

just get a bullshit job for walkers (lays) I've always heard thats how it works (if that fails just drive a bus)

just get a bullshit job for walkers (lays) I've always heard thats how it works (if that fails just drive a bus)

You're going to have to explain the bolded part to me.

You're going to have to explain the bolded part to me.

lower end trucker job delivering to supermarkets and corner shops

lower end trucker job delivering to supermarkets and corner shops

Ahh. Well that could work too. I could always work for Food Lion.

Ahh. Well that could work too. I could always work for Food Lion.

there we go now just get a bitching cover letter *has just looked at your blog resume sorry* and you will be Wilgrove the employed who regularly calls into public radio stations to do rants (eventually being offered a job at one and thus eventually stardom!)

don't forget to apply for meals on wheels if you can whilst your getting your full license, I can see that working

why don't we just admit that its a lost cause and abandon the city?
Wouldn't hurt my feelings... But the automakers have failed to compete so completely that we owe them public money. So it would look really bad to send billions of dollars to GM and Chrysler, but then shut down the city before they could pay their back taxes.

Dad lost his job and hasn't found a new one yet. And for me personally, getting hired is that much more difficult obviously.

We had to let two of the footmen go and several of the undergardners - who will clip the topiary now I ask myself.

In Newfoundland the economic woes won't touch us for another two years at most in any great or really noticable degree because of all the oil were drilling off the coast. And their is pently of jobs in the Captial City. The only problems is us Newfoundlanders don't like moving much. But we gone through hard times before. So we will just ride it out.

Personally the biggest thing that happen to me is I decided it might benfit me to actually study harder so I have good enough grades to lower the amount of future debt I will have and prehaps I wait before buying a Paid Account on Tribalwars and see if they will lower the price first! :P

That's exactly what a good government should do. It should not raise taxes on the businesses that you depend on to employ people and then on the people that you depend on to consume.

Cutting government spending will lower people's consumption making businesses cut employment.

In Newfoundland the economic woes won't touch us for another two years at most in any great or really noticable degree because of all the oil were drilling off the coast. And their is pently of jobs in the Captial City. The only problems is us Newfoundlanders don't like moving much. But we gone through hard times before. So we will just ride it out.

Personally the biggest thing that happen to me is I decided it might benfit me to actually study harder so I have good enough grades to lower the amount of future debt I will have and prehaps I wait before buying a Paid Account on Tribalwars and see if they will lower the price first! :P
You guys have such whimsical accents :D

What would you do in your household? Mortgage payment comes first. Cell phone is last. ( Your priorities may vary) Start with the least important thing and start cutting until you can pay for the most important thing. Cut, cut, cut. Quit eating out, quit going to movies.

That's exactly what a good government should do. It should not raise taxes on the businesses that you depend on to employ people and then on the people that you depend on to consume.

The state has been cutting for six years. We're running out of things to cut. Since there's been a 2% surge in unemployment this year revenues are down and expenditures are up due to the larger number of people seeking unemployment.

Also, business taxes are now lower here than they have been since Blanchard was Governor. Silly Engler taxed payrolls heavily during the 90s because industry could afford it back then. Now businesses get heavy tax breaks for each employee they have in Michigan, as well as tax breaks on equipment needed for operations here.

you can't really judge a man's job performance until he takes the job, so we'll see...That's kinda what i mean. :)

Nothing so far, but I work for the government, so I really can't expect the economy to have any impact on me, I mean, I've had the number of hours I can allocate to any given billing code or project decreased, but I work fast enough that the decrease really shouldn't cut into anything I'm working on.

I am being considered for another position at another agency though (more authority, better pay, more interesting work and in a new city), so if budgets go really south I might not get that, but, that's how it goes.

I've got a new one for you.
what faith goes around the globe with more believers than any other?
no it's not christianity
no it's not Hinduism
it's the faith in money! and look how it slowly slides into nothing. fucking US banks.

The state has been cutting for six years. We're running out of things to cut. Since there's been a 2% surge in unemployment this year revenues are down and expenditures are up due to the larger number of people seeking unemployment.

Also, business taxes are now lower here than they have been since Blanchard was Governor. Silly Engler taxed payrolls heavily during the 90s because industry could afford it back then. Now businesses get heavy tax breaks for each employee they have in Michigan, as well as tax breaks on equipment needed for operations here.
Then I guess you need to find something else to cut. It's clear that raising taxes hasn't resulted in the Michigan "Renaissance" that Granholm was trying for.

Your state has failed spectacularly, though. You may qualify for the failure prizes that are being doled out by the federal government.

So how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?

The financial prudence and restraint of my parents has been revealed as the good sense it always was, with fewer retrenchments necessary than has been the case for less judicious borrowers. Indeed, the UK Police pension my dad should recieve in 3 years, in the current housing market, should set my parents up for life.

As for me, it makes no discernible difference; as a student, my interaction with the wider economy is generally only to secure student loans, and buy goods, neither of which are greatly affected. In fact, given the state of the housing market, I too will be well set when buying my first property.

The financial prudence and restraint of my parents has been revealed as the good sense it always was, with fewer retrenchments necessary than has been the case for less judicious borrowers. Indeed, the UK Police pension my dad should recieve in 3 years, in the current housing market, should set my parents up for life.

As for me, it makes no discernible difference; as a student, my interaction with the wider economy is generally only to secure student loans, and buy goods, neither of which are greatly affected. In fact, given the state of the housing market, I too will be well set when buying my first property.

You don't plan on getting a job first, then?

You don't plan on getting a job first, then?

Given that I've got 2 years to study as an undergraduate, and have every intention of getting a doctorate, I haven't the slightest intention to get a job, when doctorate students get a salary for tuition whilst writing their thesis.

Given that I've got 2 years to study as an undergraduate, and have every intention of getting a doctorate, I haven't the slightest intention to get a job, when doctorate students get a salary for tuition whilst writing their thesis.

Ah. Ok. Just wanted to clarify that.

Ah. Ok. Just wanted to clarify that.

Good God I don't want a real job. I prefer academia to the real world.:D

So, I shouldn't expect to find a job anytime soon? Well what am I to do about money?
You can fly a plane, right? One-Eyed Weasel needs a paying outlet for his mechanical skills, and I'm willing to kill people or take hostages. The three of us could rob a bank. We just need a hot chick, a smooth guy with lots of class, and a seasoned, older criminal; we'll be unstoppable! Oh, also a plan would help, but that is negotiable.

Good God I don't want a real job. I prefer academia to the real world.:D

You've no idea how much that explains about yourself. ;)

You've no idea how much that explains about yourself. ;)

I have a vague idea...I enjoyed myself immensely last night, staying up all night making notes on the battle of Adrianople with a nice shiraz and a packet of Marlboro. Geek much?

So, how has this crappy economic affected you, or your family? As for me, this economy is making it harder for me to find a job (well harder than it originally was when all I had to do was to meet non-shallow idiots) and right now I'm just trying to find any job that I can do, even if it calls for only a High School Graduate. It also cause my dad to change careers because the Philip Morris plant was shutting down, and my uncle may be losing his job at the Freightliner plant we have here.

So how has this Economy affected you or your loved one?

I'm happy to report, not at all!:D

I'm happy to report, not at all!:D

Same here.

Then I guess you need to find something else to cut. It's clear that raising taxes hasn't resulted in the Michigan "Renaissance" that Granholm was trying for.

And what else exactly should we cut? You seem to think we're just starting to realize things aren't right, but we've been dealing with it for several years now. That tax increase is the only thing that stopped us from having to cut funding from primary education and prevented our universities from having to enact 20% increases in tuition like they had to do the year before, when the Republicans in the Senate refused to enact any budget that didn't basically dissolve the state government.

Both Minnesota and Wisconsin have higher tax rates than us but are still doing well economically. Michigan's problems aren't due to a crushingly high tax rate, in fact according to the Tax Foundation (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/461.html) Michigan is right in the middle of the pack as far as tax burden goes.

Your state has failed spectacularly, though. You may qualify for the failure prizes that are being doled out by the federal government.

Our failures have been largely due to things out of our control. It's not the state's fault the Big 3 make shitty cars (unless you think we should nationalize them, of course) and it's not our fault the Federal government refuses to do anything about Chinese currency manipulation. Perhaps the state should have done things earlier to encourage a diversification of the state's economic base, but I'm sure that would be far too socialist for you.

And what else exactly should we cut? You seem to think we're just starting to realize things aren't right, but we've been dealing with it for several years now. That tax increase is the only thing that stopped us from having to cut funding from primary education and prevented our universities from having to enact 20% increases in tuition like they had to do the year before, when the Republicans in the Senate refused to enact any budget that didn't basically dissolve the state government.

Both Minnesota and Wisconsin have higher tax rates than us but are still doing well economically. Michigan's problems aren't due to a crushingly high tax rate, in fact according to the Tax Foundation (http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/461.html) Michigan is right in the middle of the pack as far as tax burden goes.



Our failures have been largely due to things out of our control. It's not the state's fault the Big 3 make shitty cars (unless you think we should nationalize them, of course) and it's not our fault the Federal government refuses to do anything about Chinese currency manipulation. Perhaps the state should have done things earlier to encourage a diversification of the state's economic base, but I'm sure that would be far too socialist for you.
Is the State still spending money? Then there's still something to cut.
Since you throw your hands up and say, "This isn't our fault", you should write to the Governor and tell her to proudly line up behind all the other failures for her hand out. I'm sure Michigan will be well rewarded.

You can fly a plane, right? One-Eyed Weasel needs a paying outlet for his mechanical skills, and I'm willing to kill people or take hostages. The three of us could rob a bank. We just need a hot chick, a smooth guy with lots of class, and a seasoned, older criminal; we'll be unstoppable! Oh, also a plan would help, but that is negotiable.

I'm a chick. Not hot, thought - actually somewhat long in the tooth, but I volunteer. LG could be the seasoned criminal, but I don't think there are many, if any, smooth, classy guys on NSG.

I'm a chick. Not hot, thought - actually somewhat long in the tooth, but I volunteer.

this is the internet and you have a vagina.

I don't think there are many, if any, smooth, classy guys on NSG.

I have a bit of cash knocking about and some ferrari aftershave >.>

You can fly a plane, right? One-Eyed Weasel needs a paying outlet for his mechanical skills, and I'm willing to kill people or take hostages. The three of us could rob a bank. We just need a hot chick, a smooth guy with lots of class, and a seasoned, older criminal; we'll be unstoppable! Oh, also a plan would help, but that is negotiable.

O come on your gonna need a lookout and I would be PERFECT!!! I'm the right age and everything. I just hope you guys aren't the type to proimse the lookout 20% of the pay, and then kill him afterwards right?


*Starts making copies of the thread for safetly.*

Is the State still spending money? Then there's still something to cut.

Yes, I'm sure abolishing the government would fix all of our problems. It'd sure fix the roads up quite well.

Since you throw your hands up and say, "This isn't our fault", you should write to the Governor and tell her to proudly line up behind all the other failures for her hand out. I'm sure Michigan will be well rewarded.

I said not all of our problems are our fault. Some things most certainly are, but a number of them are problems that, given the nature of our system, a state government can't fix. Given that we've been a donor state to the federal budget for many, many years I say we're a bit overdue for some extra cash.

I'm a chick. Not hot, thought - actually somewhat long in the tooth, but I volunteer. LG could be the seasoned criminal, but I don't think there are many, if any, smooth, classy guys on NSG.
Long teeth, eh? I guess there is a use for that . . .
For the seasoned criminal, I was thinking more Robert Vaughn in Hustle or George Clooney in Ocean's Eleven, but, I guess if Robin Williams can play serial killers and sociopaths, Goofballs can play at the voice of experience.
I was thinking about trying Cannot Think of a Name for smooth guy. He may not be all that smooth, or all that classy, or all that young, but he lives in California and that is almost close enough.
I have a bit of cash knocking about and some ferrari aftershave >.>
And you've got a British accent, don't forget that. You'd have to pay for your own flight across the Atlantic Ocean though.
O come on your gonna need a lookout and I would be PERFECT!!! I'm the right age and everything. I just hope you guys aren't the type to proimse the lookout 20% of the pay, and then kill him afterwards right?
20%? Where did you learn to math? As it is, the loot is being split 6 ways, that's just 15% each.

In the newspaper was a story about a man who lost his job 4 months ago and he didn’t dare to tell it to his wife, family and friends. Four months he pretended everyday going out working and at evening he told his wife fantasized office stories.

His name wasn't William 'D-Fens' Foster by any chance?
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e114/whitebread555/falling_down.jpg

I'm a smooth classy guy, and I volunteer. Do I get to double as the getaway driver?

Yes, I'm sure abolishing the government would fix all of our problems. It'd sure fix the roads up quite well.



I said not all of our problems are our fault. Some things most certainly are, but a number of them are problems that, given the nature of our system, a state government can't fix. Given that we've been a donor state to the federal budget for many, many years I say we're a bit overdue for some extra cash.
I think the point that was lost in all this celebration of failure was that raising taxes didn't help the matter. That's the true lesson to be learned. One of the corollaries is that it hurts to keep to a budget when money is tight, but is the responsible thing to do. That's the way we run our homes and it should be the way we run our governments.

I think the point that was lost in all this celebration of failure was that raising taxes didn't help the matter. That's the true lesson to be learned. One of the corollaries is that it hurts to keep to a budget when money is tight, but is the responsible thing to do. That's the way we run our homes and it should be the way we run our governments.

What fantasy world have you been living in?

People have been running their homes as cash machines for unlimited credit based on rising prices and the Government is sitting on a big fat debt of its own. The Government may not be fiscally responsible but John Q. Public is no better.

What fantasy world have you been living in?

People have been running their homes as cash machines for unlimited credit based on rising prices and the Government is sitting on a big fat debt of its own. The Government may not be fiscally responsible but John Q. Public is no better.
I've been living in a world where I pay my bills on time and don't incur debt on lifestyle. Just because everyone else is fiscally irresponsible, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

I think the point that was lost in all this celebration of failure was that raising taxes didn't help the matter. That's the true lesson to be learned. One of the corollaries is that it hurts to keep to a budget when money is tight, but is the responsible thing to do. That's the way we run our homes and it should be the way we run our governments.

We've been cutting taxes since 2002 and that hasn't really helped us either. That tax increase you linked to (from last year) is the first and only tax increase Granholm has had anything to do with. If you look at the Tax Foundation site you'll see that every single year since 2003 Michigan has dropped in the "highest tax burden ranking", from 22nd to 27th, well below your own Georgia which is currently 16th. Apparently lowering taxes doesn't help the matter either.

And you're right, you have to keep a budget. However, when your hours or salary gets cut to where you can't pay the absolutely essential bills, sometimes you've got to get a second, part-time job.

We've been cutting taxes since 2002 and that hasn't really helped us either. That tax increase you linked to (from last year) is the first and only tax increase Granholm has had anything to do with. If you look at the Tax Foundation site you'll see that every single year since 2003 Michigan has dropped in the "highest tax burden ranking", from 22nd to 27th, well below your own Georgia which is currently 16th. Apparently lowering taxes doesn't help the matter either.

And you're right, you have to keep a budget. However, when your hours or salary gets cut to where you can't pay the absolutely essential bills, sometimes you've got to get a second, part-time job.
Bad analogy. The government doesn't earn money. If you said, "... Sometimes you've got to rob a bank", that might have been a little closer to the truth.

When it comes to Georgia, we're cutting. We cutting spending, cutting salaries, cutting labor. There have been a few lame-brained proposals to increase taxes or eliminate tax breaks (same thing as raising taxes, unless you're from DC), but those haven't passed. We also have a shortfall reserve fund that we built up during good times. We're going to spend some of that.

Bad analogy. The government doesn't earn money. If you said, "... Sometimes you've got to rob a bank", that might have been a little closer to the truth.

Robbing a bank is a worse analogy. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who honestly thinks taxation is theft. If you are then this conversation really won't end up going anywhere as our fundamental assumptions are too different on this for anything like meaningful dialogue.

When it comes to Georgia, we're cutting. We cutting spending, cutting salaries, cutting labor. There have been a few lame-brained proposals to increase taxes or eliminate tax breaks (same thing as raising taxes, unless you're from DC), but those haven't passed. We also have a shortfall reserve fund that we built up during good times. We're going to spend some of that.

Michigan has cut all those things, and has been cutting them for several years now. We had a reserve built up from the 90s, but when everyone stopped buying SUVs after 9/11 it dried up quickly.

Robbing a bank is a worse analogy. Unless, of course, you're one of those people who honestly thinks taxation is theft. If you are then this conversation really won't end up going anywhere as our fundamental assumptions are too different on this for anything like meaningful dialogue.



Michigan has cut all those things, and has been cutting them for several years now. We had a reserve built up from the 90s, but when everyone stopped buying SUVs after 9/11 it dried up quickly.
My point is that governments don't earn money by providing services. At the very loosest interpretation, they receive money for services. If the model were really that good, we'd have a better idea when to cast off the losing programs and which ones merited our attention. Since the government does have the power to arbitrarily take money from its citizens, taxation isn't exactly theft, but it's sure not earning.

Now, you're getting to the root of the problem. Michigan is a one-trick pony with the auto industry. But the industry -- with Michigan ignoring the benefits of becoming a "right to work" state, it better be ready to -- Well, have you ever driven down the Ohio River valley? From Steubenville to Cincinnati, all you see are empty steel mills. Akron is populated with empty buildings with names like Goodyear, Goodrich, etc. Get the idea? A Honda plant in Ohio can produce a car for much, much less than any plant run by Ford, GM, or Chrysler. Plus, the management can implement new ideas when they get them.

Yep, the unions are good for Michigan and good for the people. Don't ever change.

I lost 5% of my life savings and my boss won't give me a raise. :mad:

I gonna kill Bush.

I've been living in a world where I pay my bills on time and don't incur debt on lifestyle. Just because everyone else is fiscally irresponsible, doesn't mean it's the right thing to do.

Yes I completly agree. For all of my life I have lived by the principle 'if i haven't got the money then I can't have it'

And I'm in absolutly no troubles at all, I have no money worries, all of my bills are paid on time, I have no debt.

I lost 5% of my life savings and my boss won't give me a raise. :mad:

I gonna kill Bush.

Five percent? Is that all? That's great! My 401K/403B is down 25%. But I'm buying as much as I can because I know everything is on sale now. I mean, is GE, or Coke, or JNJ, or any of a dozen other good companies going to fail? Hardly. This is an opportunity!

I have mixed feelings about the recession. My business is down but my investment purchases carry a lot more punch because of lower stock prices. The interest rates are great right now and I am in the process of refinancing my debts and I hope that goes well. Overall, I think that the past year has been good for my finances.

Five percent? Is that all? That's great! My 401K/403B is down 25%. But I'm buying as much as I can because I know everything is on sale now. I mean, is GE, or Coke, or JNJ, or any of a dozen other good companies going to fail? Hardly. This is an opportunity!

Ditto.