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One of the questions on this quiz asks you how you define success. So NSG, how do you define success? Is it being rich and living the "good life"? Is it "making a living doing what you love"? Is it defined by the number of people you help in this life. Or something else? Also if you answer in any of the ways mentioned, I've got a few questions.
1) What do you consider being rich and living the good life? What is the lifestyle necessary to be successful?
2) How many people, and in what ways, must you help to be successful?
3) Are you truly successful if people do not approve of you following your passions, and you must, as a result, suffer backlash for your choices?

Just something that has been going through my mind ever since I first took this political quiz.

Ending the day with as many living students as I started it.

The purpose of life is to be entertained. Whether one is entertained by playing World of Warcraft or the feeling of satisfaction by helping the poor, the feeling is the same. Life presents a series of obstacles to this that must be overcome. People must be able to provide for their comfort and well being in order to reach a state in which they can enjoy themselves. As this level varies and the source of entertainment varies, there is no real need to dwell on details. Let's just cut to the definition of success: Success is the ability to enjoy yourself thoroughly and often.

For me, right now, it's actually having a damn job, which is why I'm seriously considering becoming an over the road trucker.

Let's just cut to the definition of success: Success is the ability to enjoy yourself thoroughly and often.

I don't think the Pope will agree with your theories on masturbation as the key to success.

I personally feel like success is when you don't fail.

I think this definition will work for anyone.

I don't think the Pope will agree with your theories on masturbation as the key to success.

Yes he does. ;)

Yes he does. ;)

I direct you to the concept of Papal Infappability, one of the underpinnings of the Catholic faith.

Just because insiders nickname him Pope BendyDick XVI, doesn't imply anything, he is infappable.

The purpose of life is to be entertained. Whether one is entertained by playing World of Warcraft or the feeling of satisfaction by helping the poor, the feeling is the same. Life presents a series of obstacles to this that must be overcome. People must be able to provide for their comfort and well being in order to reach a state in which they can enjoy themselves. As this level varies and the source of entertainment varies, there is no real need to dwell on details. Let's just cut to the definition of success: Success is the ability to enjoy yourself thoroughly and often.

That is quite profound Lunatic Goofballs. Seriously, I have no idea, sometimes, why, beyond your name, that some generalites call you a clown.

Let's just cut to the definition of success: Success is the ability to enjoy yourself thoroughly and often.

This is what it should be.

That is quite profound Lunatic Goofballs. Seriously, I have no idea, sometimes, why, beyond your name, that some generalites call you a clown.

I AM a clown. I make a comfortable living applying make-up, wearing odd clothing and entertaining people(mostly children) with jokes, magic, balloon animals and assorted pratfalls and sight gags. Fortunately for me, being the center of attention entertains ME.

I direct you to the concept of Papal Infappability, one of the underpinnings of the Catholic faith.

Just because insiders nickname him Pope BendyDick XVI, doesn't imply anything, he is infappable.

I laughed hard.

Actually, the most successful person I've ever met was a man, a busker who played the tin whistle for a living. He had a few bad teeth, threadbare clothes and the biggest grin I've ever seen.

The purpose of life is to be entertained. Whether one is entertained by playing World of Warcraft or the feeling of satisfaction by helping the poor, the feeling is the same. Life presents a series of obstacles to this that must be overcome. People must be able to provide for their comfort and well being in order to reach a state in which they can enjoy themselves. As this level varies and the source of entertainment varies, there is no real need to dwell on details. Let's just cut to the definition of success: Success is the ability to enjoy yourself thoroughly and often.
This.^^

Additionally, in reference to part of the OP, success is defined personally, so the opinions of others do not matter, unless generating a particular opinion was part of your goal.

Additionally, in reference to part of the OP, success is defined personally, so the opinions of others do not matter

Indeed. When I was young I considered success to be living a comfortable, middle class lifestyle. To me this meant owning a car that wasn't a rustbucket piece of shit, living in a functional, modern house (the house I grew up in had holes in the walls and a one-room woodstove for heating) and having enough money to dress decently and be able to eat in restaurants more than once a month. To me that was success because it was a lot more than I had. Of course, I have all those now so my definition of success has changed somewhat.

I've written entire plays on the subject.

But I'll give an anecdotal answer.

My little brother blew past my footsteps and became an actual, making a full living, musician. He rolls his ass out of bed sometime after noon, rolls down to the coffee shop where he has trained them exactly how he likes his coffee driving a little sports car he adores, much of the year paying for it with gift cards from his students. He then goes and teaches those students who he also adores, and then either comes home and plays the video game of his choice or in the band he leads or fill in when someone asks him.

All of this maintaining his own place, raising his kid and meeting his needs, and even occasionally helping out his no good brother who didn't do nearly as well as a musician.

There is no point in his day where he does something he doesn't think is awesome. You don't own any of his CDs, it's not likely that you've been to one of his shows. But at any given point in his day, he is doing something he thinks is awesome.

I can't think of a better measure.

He rolls his ass out of bed sometime after noon, rolls down to the coffee shop where he has trained them exactly how he likes his coffee driving a little sports car he adores, much of the year paying for it with gift cards from his students.

My dad drives a little sports car he adores. It's called a mid life crisis, not success. :p

I just wished to get into a philosophical discussion with y'all, so New Wallachonia, while you claim that it is a personal measure, determined by what a person values (which was the basic premise of the argumentation- the postulate that I felt all here would be willing to accept for the purpose of this debate) you define success in progressively, material terms, am I not right? So, when you attained a certain goal that you initially define as success, you immediately do not consider yourself successful? Thus I take it you are a socially upwardly mobile individual. A danger of this though is never feeling satisfied, thus you are not successful according to LGs definition, which is finding enjoyment in life. The result? Depression, loneliness, etc. I am not saying you are currently experiencing those things, for I do not know you from anybody else here, but it is a danger of such a world view.

Also, Cannot think of a Name(?), your brother sounds like a good man. He makes a living doing what he loves while giving back to society by teaching others and helping his bandmates, from what I gather. I define success as determining your vocation by discerning what gifts have given to you by some sort of higher power (I'm trying to be PC here) realizing what the needs of this world are and what is it you enjoy, by satisfying these areas you have discovered your reason for being, and thus are successful in my book.

I direct you to the concept of Papal Infappability, one of the underpinnings of the Catholic faith.

Just because insiders nickname him Pope BendyDick XVI, doesn't imply anything, he is infappable.

*faps*

*snip*

The problem is that the word 'success' is so very vague, it can cover the immediate and detailed to the distant and vague.

One might point to an objective definition of success, a goal attained, a subjective definition, what 'I' might consider success and even success as measured by others, whether other people consider you a success.

Where any discussion might break down is in the difference between all these definitions, one can easily question 'ah but is that really success' to any statement on what success is.

The etymology of success is rooted in succession, to 'come after', to take over a position, which has morphed into achieving a goal.

Any comment on 'come after' and infappability will be noted.

LG: *faps*
I am not going to touch that with a ten foot pole :P

Indeed. When I was young I considered success to be living a comfortable, middle class lifestyle. To me this meant owning a car that wasn't a rustbucket piece of shit, living in a functional, modern house (the house I grew up in had holes in the walls and a one-room woodstove for heating) and having enough money to dress decently and be able to eat in restaurants more than once a month. To me that was success because it was a lot more than I had. Of course, I have all those now so my definition of success has changed somewhat.
I'm pretty poor. I have no job at the moment and am contemplating how to earn some money in the single worst economic environment of my life. I'm not in trouble now, but I can see the point on the horizon where I will be. Yet, I consider myself "successful" in as much as I am still on the path I chose for my life -- the rather spotty and not-for-profit path of being an artist. Some people denigrate my choices because they don't pay, usually. But my goal was to not work every day of my life in an office cubicle, wishing I was making art instead, and never having the time to organize any of my more ambitious projects. After many difficult and often depressing years, I finally got there -- on that path where I do art and only occasionally get supplemental "day jobs" that I hate -- and I have successfully maintained that lifestyle for over 10 years now. I am pleased with my progress.

Sure, I have more benchmarks of success ahead of me, but I still consider myself to be "succeeding" now, because I can look back at 10 years of experience and finished work that expresses what I wanted it to express and which I find profoundly satisfying, and at 15+ years prior to that of a joyless daily grind at jobs that were not-art, without direction or personal satisfaction of any kind.

So, although I have no money and my career "to do" list is enormous, I still consider myself successful by comparison. So far.

My dad drives a little sports car he adores. It's called a mid life crisis, not success. :p

I am soooooooo going to call bullshit on this oft repeated piece of nonsense that people should be ashamed of uttering.

When I was twenty, I had the sports car I could afford. A little, rattling one leg in the grave Porsche 914 that I paid $900 for and might have overpaid. Its interior was just rat, its hood would pop open when I went over bumps, the headlights would pop up and down on their own accord, the dashboard would die when I pressed the brakes, and throughout the ownership the windshield wipers never worked and the outside doorhandles stopped working.

Would I have liked a 911? Absolutely. But you know what car I could afford at twenty? A $900 rattle-trap 914. At twenty my brother could afford a equally rattle trap Mustang. It has taken him to this point in his life to afford a nice modern sports car that doesn't take an act of daring do to drive it, and now he's not supposed to because he's eeked into his early thirties and there are those that will chortle "mid-life crisis," that he is doomed to Toyota Camry blandness because it took him 'too long' to be able to afford a car he has no reasonable cause to have stopped liking?

Fuck. That. Shit.

Outside of a trust fund/game show/lottery/professional sports contract/child star kind of event, it takes a while to afford these cars. It's not a crisis, it takes that fucking long. If you want to nail your coffin shut prematurely, knock yourself out. But to scoff at those who plan on enjoying the other half of their lives now that they've earned it...seems a bit silly to me.

I've written entire plays on the subject.

But I'll give an anecdotal answer.

My little brother blew past my footsteps and became an actual, making a full living, musician. He rolls his ass out of bed sometime after noon, rolls down to the coffee shop where he has trained them exactly how he likes his coffee driving a little sports car he adores, much of the year paying for it with gift cards from his students. He then goes and teaches those students who he also adores, and then either comes home and plays the video game of his choice or in the band he leads or fill in when someone asks him.

All of this maintaining his own place, raising his kid and meeting his needs, and even occasionally helping out his no good brother who didn't do nearly as well as a musician.

There is no point in his day where he does something he doesn't think is awesome. You don't own any of his CDs, it's not likely that you've been to one of his shows. But at any given point in his day, he is doing something he thinks is awesome.

I can't think of a better measure.

These are the kind of stories that make me kind of glad I'm an only child.

I feel a lot of pressure to be "successful", which I've never even been close to and probably won't. On the other side of the coin, I've come very close to dying more than once, so I kind of feel like just being alive is a success.

I am soooooooo going to call bullshit on this oft repeated piece of nonsense that people should be ashamed of uttering.

When I was twenty, I had the sports car I could afford. A little, rattling one leg in the grave Porsche 914 that I paid $900 for and might have overpaid. Its interior was just rat, its hood would pop open when I went over bumps, the headlights would pop up and down on their own accord, the dashboard would die when I pressed the brakes, and throughout the ownership the windshield wipers never worked and the outside doorhandles stopped working.

Would I have liked a 911? Absolutely. But you know what car I could afford at twenty? A $900 rattle-trap 914. At twenty my brother could afford a equally rattle trap Mustang. It has taken him to this point in his life to afford a nice modern sports car that doesn't take an act of daring do to drive it, and now he's not supposed to because he's eeked into his early thirties and there are those that will chortle "mid-life crisis," that he is doomed to Toyota Camry blandness because it took him 'too long' to be able to afford a car he has no reasonable cause to have stopped liking?

Fuck. That. Shit.

Outside of a trust fund/game show/lottery/professional sports contract/child star kind of event, it takes a while to afford these cars. It's not a crisis, it takes that fucking long. If you want to nail your coffin shut prematurely, knock yourself out. But to scoff at those who plan on enjoying the other half of their lives now that they've earned it...seems a bit silly to me.
QFT. See my earlier comment about the opinions of others not mattering (of course, I think that because I don't think other people matter much at all and that they have a lot of damned cheek presuming to open their mouths in my presence at all, but aside from that...).

Also, your brother is The Man, and has it goin' on. :D

If you want to nail your coffin shut prematurely, knock yourself out. But to scoff at those who plan on enjoying the other half of their lives now that they've earned it...seems a bit silly to me.

Amen, bro.

Of course, I had the car I wanted at 17--nothing incredibly special, a white Mustang GT with a kick-ass stereo, but I loved it a lot. Now that I'm grown up, I've got a gold grandma car I bought off a friend for $1,700 that gets good mileage and will probably run forever. I'm really glad I got to enjoy my college years driving my Mustang.

Of course, that meant I spent my college years driving a light-ass Mustang up and down 17 in the rain, which made for some awesome heart-stopping memories of panic and terror.

I was merely offering a counter argument. Indeed in modern, Western culture New Wallochonia does epitomize the dominant, capitalist culture's definition of success: If you work hard, then you will be rewarded materially, therefore you will be successful. If this is, indeed, the definition of success according to the culture, what of those who cannot achieve the level that Western culture expects of them? Is the duty of society, then, to help them become "successful"? Thus, is not a welfare state essential to a functioning liberal democratic society? Does this imply that the LP is erroneous in its views as to the requirements of a market based society?

Being able to honestly say to yourself that you're doing what you want to do with your life.

These are the kind of stories that make me kind of glad I'm an only child.

I feel a lot of pressure to be "successful", which I've never even been close to and probably won't. On the other side of the coin, I've come very close to dying more than once, so I kind of feel like just being alive is a success.

Here's the suck part. By every measure my brother is more successful than I am. He has achieved more, earns more, has stood on his own feet for longer, is more responsible, I could go on.

And he still lives in my shadow. It is about the most unfair thing possible, and one of the things that has made us finally close as brothers is me telling him that I see it and I know it's fucked up.

He could cure cancer and end world hunger and my family would be all, "That's nice. CToaN bounced a ball!"

And aren't you a teacher? What more success are you looking for? Being played by Michelle Pfiefer in a movie?

Amen, bro.

Of course, I had the car I wanted at 17--nothing incredibly special, a white Mustang GT with a kick-ass stereo, but I loved it a lot. Now that I'm grown up, I've got a gold grandma car I bought off a friend for $1,700 that gets good mileage and will probably run forever. I'm really glad I got to enjoy my college years driving my Mustang.

Of course, that meant I spent my college years driving a light-ass Mustang up and down 17 in the rain, which made for some awesome heart-stopping memories of panic and terror.
I did it in a beat up '67 VW Bus with questionable brakes...which I still drive to this day...(well 'drive' is a relative term, the %&*%#*($& has been in the shop since June because I made the mistake of not going to my regular guy...)

The problem is that the word 'success' is so very vague, it can cover the immediate and detailed to the distant and vague.

One might point to an objective definition of success, a goal attained, a subjective definition, what 'I' might consider success and even success as measured by others, whether other people consider you a success.

Where any discussion might break down is in the difference between all these definitions, one can easily question 'ah but is that really success' to any statement on what success is.

The etymology of success is rooted in succession, to 'come after', to take over a position, which has morphed into achieving a goal.

Any comment on 'come after' and infappability will be noted.
This is true. However, the more I think about the issue -- and after all the years of "you'll never amount to anything; artsy-fartsy, get a job!" bullshit I've taken in my lifetime, you better know I've thought about what "success" really is -- the more I think the definitions of success that rely on others -- others' opinions, others' recognition, etc -- or that rely on social definitions -- as of acceptable lifestyles, for instance -- are illusions.

When you really try to pin "success" down, it seems that there are really only two things that could possibly fall under the heading of "success" and are not illusions that poof out of existence as soon as they are put to the test of being realized.

They are (1) a feeling like what CTOAN describes, and (2) the limited and pragmatic measure of a stated goal achieved.

Measuring success by goals achieved is an undeniable measure, because you either did the thing or you didn't. You either climbed Everest or you didn't. It's pretty simple. The "did or didn't" measure can be applied in surprisingly flexible ways. I set a goal to curate and present a group art show of new works made in response to theme challenge. I succeeded, and a damned fine show it was with a killer opening and tons of traffic throughout its run. I say I succeeded at that project. I also set a goal to establish the lifestyle I described earlier. I have done that, and I call that a success, too, even though it's not a finished thing. I either put on the art show or I didn't (I did, past tense). I either live as an artist, or I don't (I do, present tense).

The feeling, which can be described as "you're a success if you feel like one", in my opinion, only really works if it is paired with the accomplished goals thing, but it is still important because if you don't feel successful -- if you don't feel like your days are awesome -- then no amount of accomplishment will make you believe you are successful at anything. Probably because you're doing something you don't want to do, so every success is felt as a failure at something broader, at life. Yeah, I've been there.

But the important point of both of those is that neither is dependent on the expectations of society or other people. They are both personal.

I did it in a beat up '67 VW Bus with questionable brakes...which I still drive to this day...(well 'drive' is a relative term, the %&*%#*($& has been in the shop since June because I made the mistake of not going to my regular guy...)

I drove it my first time ever when I was 16 in an Explorer with shoddy brakes. We are all lucky to have survived.

Here's the suck part. By every measure my brother is more successful than I am. He has achieved more, earns more, has stood on his own feet for longer, is more responsible, I could go on.

And he still lives in my shadow. It is about the most unfair thing possible, and one of the things that has made us finally close as brothers is me telling him that I see it and I know it's fucked up.

He could cure cancer and end world hunger and my family would be all, "That's nice. CToaN bounced a ball!"

Totally messed up, but it's really awesome that you guys talked about it and got it out of the way. My mom holds the same position in her family as your brother--of four children, she is definitely the least like, the one labeled "rebellious" and "radical" and "deviant", even though she's like the most honest, compassionate, integrity-driven person I know. My grandmother prefers my aunt, though, and goes to great pains to show it, praising her all the time and giving her everything and going on and on about how wonderful she is. It's really hard to listen to because my mom is such a great person, I just want to punch that old lady in the face. And my aunt totally doesn't acknowledge it, she acts like she didn't get everything in the world handed to her while my mom was busting her ass and sleeping on park benches while she put herself through college. Grr. It makes me so mad.

And aren't you a teacher? What more success are you looking for? Being played by Michelle Pfiefer in a movie?

Dude. Becoming a teacher isn't a success story, it's a backup plan. I was going to write the great American novel. :(

Hehe, you know when I first started to really believe I was finally getting my life on the right track, and that I really was not just an artist but a good one (dammit) ("good" being the ultimate measure of "success" to me)?

When the kinds of people who used to give me the "artsy-fartsy, get a job" speech, started doing the opposite and telling me to quit my jobs and spend more time in the studio doing artwork. :D

Even one of my landlords once told me specifically I was working too much and should be doing more art -- and I owed him money!

So it's funny, but when you pursue your own dreams and goals, without caring what other people think, once you do get into your real groove, those other people will come around anyway.

But the important point of both of those is that neither is dependent on the expectations of society or other people. They are both personal.

Which is why I'm pretty sure I'll never be successful. I don't think I'll ever be comfortable enough with who I am to feel like I'm worth anything, and if I'm not worth anything, I certainly can't do anything worth anything. The possible exception to this might be if I sacrificed my life wrestling some crazed gun-wielding maniac to the ground to save my students. But then I'd be dead, which would make the success very short-lived.

Dude. Becoming a teacher isn't a success story, it's a backup plan. I was going to write the great American novel. :(
Someone break your fingers? You still got time, woman.
Which is why I'm pretty sure I'll never be successful. I don't think I'll ever be comfortable enough with who I am to feel like I'm worth anything, and if I'm not worth anything, I certainly can't do anything worth anything. The possible exception to this might be if I sacrificed my life wrestling some crazed gun-wielding maniac to the ground to save my students. But then I'd be dead, which would make the success very short-lived.
I'm a kinda sketchy looking dude, I could come to your class with a squirt gun and you could knock me out making you a hero...just don't call the BART cops...



too soon

Hehe, you know when I first started to really believe I was finally getting my life on the right track, and that I really was not just an artist but a good one (dammit) ("good" being the ultimate measure of "success" to me)?

When the kinds of people who used to give me the "artsy-fartsy, get a job" speech, started doing the opposite and telling me to quit my jobs and spend more time in the studio doing artwork. :D

Even one of my landlords once told me specifically I was working too much and should be doing more art -- and I owed him money!

So it's funny, but when you pursue your own dreams and goals, without caring what other people think, once you do get into your real groove, those other people will come around anyway.

Doesn't this somewhat contradict your earlier point, here you believe you were truly successful when others validated your personal feeling that you were, at least, on the track to success.

No (wo)man is an island, we do require some validation of our opinion in respect to others, we don't live in a vacuum.

I'd wonder whether one could say true success is when all 3 are in place.

1. You achieved a goal
2. The goal was a personal definition of success
3. That goal is validated by others - it doesn't matter who, what matters is that their validation enhances the feeling of achievement.

One could apply success to any of the 3 in some ways but, to the point of the OP, all 3 are are required for true success.

Someone break your fingers? You still got time, woman.

Stop sounding like my conscience, fucker.

too soon

Little bit.

I am soooooooo going to call bullshit on this oft repeated piece of nonsense that people should be ashamed of uttering.

When I was twenty, I had the sports car I could afford. A little, rattling one leg in the grave Porsche 914 that I paid $900 for and might have overpaid. Its interior was just rat, its hood would pop open when I went over bumps, the headlights would pop up and down on their own accord, the dashboard would die when I pressed the brakes, and throughout the ownership the windshield wipers never worked and the outside doorhandles stopped working.

Would I have liked a 911? Absolutely. But you know what car I could afford at twenty? A $900 rattle-trap 914. At twenty my brother could afford a equally rattle trap Mustang. It has taken him to this point in his life to afford a nice modern sports car that doesn't take an act of daring do to drive it, and now he's not supposed to because he's eeked into his early thirties and there are those that will chortle "mid-life crisis," that he is doomed to Toyota Camry blandness because it took him 'too long' to be able to afford a car he has no reasonable cause to have stopped liking?

Fuck. That. Shit.

Outside of a trust fund/game show/lottery/professional sports contract/child star kind of event, it takes a while to afford these cars. It's not a crisis, it takes that fucking long. If you want to nail your coffin shut prematurely, knock yourself out. But to scoff at those who plan on enjoying the other half of their lives now that they've earned it...seems a bit silly to me.

Exactly, see what a little prodding will do. ;)

Stop sounding like my conscience, fucker.

I'm on top of everyone else's writing but my own.

Which is why I'm pretty sure I'll never be successful. I don't think I'll ever be comfortable enough with who I am to feel like I'm worth anything, and if I'm not worth anything, I certainly can't do anything worth anything. The possible exception to this might be if I sacrificed my life wrestling some crazed gun-wielding maniac to the ground to save my students. But then I'd be dead, which would make the success very short-lived.
This is true, but what the hell, you gotta die somehow, so you may as well succeed at it. :D

I, of course, have no idea how old you are. I'm 45, and I don't think I felt like I had ever or could ever succeed at anything until I was about 35. So, starting the count at high school, which is when I first started forming ambitions, that's a good two decades of bitterness, disappointment, and general unhappiness.

I'm not sure what turned it around. I know it involved a personal epiphany about what mattered to me in life. But I think there was also a maturation process that I had no control over and could not have made come any earlier than it did. I know my artwork advanced significantly at that time, and looking back on it, I was not the artist then, that I am now. If I had done what many "encouraged" me to do and seek work in the arts as a teacher or commercial designer in my 20s, I sincerely believe that I would never have experienced any success at all, because I would have stuck all my creative energies into doing what I now see as substandard work. I would have been just another office monkey, only at a drafting table instead of a desk.

Now, I look back on all those bitter years of failure, and I feel grateful for them, because they did, really and truly, make me what I am now. My philosophy now is, no matter what life throws at you, no matter what you have to do at any point, keep the faith with your personal goals, because everything -- everything, no matter how hostile to your dreams it might seem -- will assist in getting you there -- as long as you never stop trying to get there.

So if you wanted to write a novel, do it. Who gives a shit if it takes you 20 years? Doing it is better than not doing it.

Doesn't this somewhat contradict your earlier point, here you believe you were truly successful when others validated your personal feeling that you were, at least, on the track to success.

No (wo)man is an island, we do require some validation of our opinion in respect to others, we don't live in a vacuum.

I'd wonder whether one could say true success is when all 3 are in place.

1. You achieved a goal
2. The goal was a personal definition of success
3. That goal is validated by others - it doesn't matter who, what matters is that their validation enhances the feeling of achievement.

One could apply success to any of the 3 in some ways but, to the point of the OP, all 3 are are required for true success.
As I said in another post, if you personally do not feel like a success, then you will not see any of your accomplishments as successes. Likewise, if you do not feel like a success, then no amount of approbation from others will give you that feeling.

For example, I feel like I am succeeding. Before I felt that way, those who put down my ambitions as childish or unrealistic had the power to grind me down hard. Now, I get rejected from shows all the time, but those rejections roll right off my back. The negative reactions of others do not make me doubt myself because I KNOW that my work is successful, because I can feel it.

By that same token, if I do a piece of work and it fails as a work (an individual project), then no amount of other people telling me they like it will make me put it on display. I KNOW it is a failure, because I have within myself my own measure for what constitutes a successful accomplishment. I have my own sense of what I was trying to achieve. I have works that I have held out of circulation for years, even though everyone who saw them loved them, because I KNEW they weren't good enough and needed more work. And when I finally did "fix" them, their impact on viewers was worlds beyond what it used to be.

That is how that feeling of success works. It is generated within me, and it is completely controlled by me. It is totally independent of what comes from the outside. When other people's opinions echo my own sense of success, it's the whipped cream and cherry on top of the sundae of good feelings. When they don't, then others' opinions are mere noise.

So when I said, I knew then that I really was a success, I didn't mean that those other people's opinions GAVE me a feeling of success. What I meant was that they echoed back my own feelings to me. Getting that feedback let me know that my feelings were real and I could trust them. From those days forward, I enjoy hearing the opinions of others, but I do not measure my success by them.

The purpose of life is to be entertained. Whether one is entertained by playing World of Warcraft or the feeling of satisfaction by helping the poor, the feeling is the same. Life presents a series of obstacles to this that must be overcome. People must be able to provide for their comfort and well being in order to reach a state in which they can enjoy themselves. As this level varies and the source of entertainment varies, there is no real need to dwell on details. Let's just cut to the definition of success: Success is the ability to enjoy yourself thoroughly and often.

Yeah, this; but I summed it up into "happiness". To me being successful in life is being happy with life and the way you live it. It's a bit selfish, but your life is yours to enjoy after all.

Success is destroying the Universe or eating 500 big sandwiches in one year. Whoever gets one of these first is considered to have "Succeeded," and the other players each get one round to attempt an "Overtrump" and reset existence before the Succeeded wins.

as benny hill used to say, nothing sucksseeds like a parot with no beak.

my own deffinician of success is related to where i've found gratification and where i haven't. to put it simply success is knowing what you enjoy doing, and being in the proccess of doing it.

thus it ain't got squat to do with symbolic value, accumulation, trying to impress anybody, or even excitement.

1) What do you consider being rich and living the good life? What is the lifestyle necessary to be successful? well this first question starts off being self contradictory: see my deffinician above.

being rich, i think that's a matter of a combination of being gratified AND having earned some sort of honor. and i think the latter element of that would have to do with the gratification of one's own generosity, creative generosity, generosity OF creativity primarily, like making something beautiful, that brings happiness and gratification to others and asking noting in return. being able to do that and doing so, i think i'd count that as wealth.

as for lifestyle, well comfort without stiffling the imagination and the stimulating of it.
creating and exploring are what gratify, so a life style that intimately revolves around doing so.

2) How many people, and in what ways, must you help to be successful?
well i don't think its a matter of counting and numbers, but the more you can give to everybody, and i don't mean by shortchainging yourself either. that might seem like a grand gesture, but what does that do anyone? but say you create something beautiful, and then, you know, whatever you bring into this world, you then no long consider it a child or a property, but instead intentionally donate it to the public domain, that sort of thing. people who develop something like the 3d program blender, and then put it, make it freeware, i mean themselves intentionally to begin with, i'd call that doing so. of course there are caregiving proffessions and those qualify too of course. but different ways of doing this, different people aren't all born to do this in the same way. we each have different 'gifts' to share.

3) Are you truly successful if people do not approve of you following your passions, and you must, as a result, suffer backlash for your choices? oh absolutely. what other people think has absolutely nothing to do with it, unless that somehow empaires your gratification.

as jim hightower calles his book; "go against the flow, even a dead fish can float downstream". and i think what i'd add to that, how i'd interpret that, is not to let other people's emotional attatchment to what they're familiar with, prevent your own objectivity. i mean its fine to go along to get along, we all need to do that too, to some degree, but not to tell yourself the same lies everyone else is just because they are, because you and they think you'll get something out of doing so. the only thing 99.9999% of everybody ever gets out of the is the shaft. not just to themselves, but to the kind of world we all have to live in

I think I'm pretty successful. I own a little house in the woods(ish), it's not big or fancy, but it's paid for and I've not got any neighbors. I own a good truck that's paid for as well. I hunt, I fish, I trap, and I occasionally sell the skins to people I know. What meat I don't eat myself, I sell or give to the church. When I need money I have a wide variety of skills I can fall back on, and people I know who need things done. People like to see me come in, in every bar or restaurant in town.

And most importantly, I don't have to punch a clock, wear a tie, or go to an office(well occasionally I do, but only to meet people there).

This discussion has been most fruitful, I am glad to see that people responded to it as I thought they would. I was not sure what I'd read as responses to the OP, but I am delighted :D :D

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.

Och this is an awfully "c'est quoi?" kind of question. Success is what you make of it and all.

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.

We'll rape all your churches and burn all your women!:p

I don't think the Pope will agree with your theories on masturbation as the key to success.
Not publicly, maybe.

That is quite profound Lunatic Goofballs. Seriously, I have no idea, sometimes, why, beyond your name, that some generalites call you a clown.He is a god too, you know (as clearly labeled) ... he simply wears many wigs ... er, hats.

I was merely offering a counter argument. Indeed in modern, Western culture New Wallochonia does epitomize the dominant, capitalist culture's definition of success: If you work hard, then you will be rewarded materially, therefore you will be successful. If this is, indeed, the definition of success according to the culture, what of those who cannot achieve the level that Western culture expects of them? Is the duty of society, then, to help them become "successful"? Thus, is not a welfare state essential to a functioning liberal democratic society? Does this imply that the LP is erroneous in its views as to the requirements of a market based society?

What I think Bob Dylan was addressing in the video for Subterrean Homesick Blues when he wrote "suckcess" on the sign.

1) To serve my God with all my heart, mind, and soul.
2) To help out everyone I can along the way, to ease their suffering and bring them hope.

1) To serve my God with all my heart, mind, and soul.
2) To help out everyone I can along the way, to ease their suffering and bring them hope.

Hippie :p

If you're content with your life, then you're a success.

um. i have no idea, success seems quite an alien creation to me. i just seem to struggle on and happen to find some parts of life less strugglesome than others.
finding people like yourself, i think is key to success.

The temporary postponement of failure

We'll rape all your churches and burn all your women!:p
but don't forget to spare the sheep!

At least not hating where you go everyday for work. Someone to share your success with. Cold Beer. A place to go at the end of day. Some time to spend as you like. Enough money to make ends meet and lack nothing of any value. Being able to sleep with a clear conscience knowing that I at least I left it better than I found it and hopefully improved the place by being here. Just like Verizon "Make progress everyday"

in modern, Western culture New Wallochonia does epitomize the dominant, capitalist culture's definition of success

Indeed, but in attaining what I defined as "success" I've decided that it isn't really as great as I thought it was.

I'm pretty poor. I have no job at the moment and am contemplating how to earn some money in the single worst economic environment of my life. I'm not in trouble now, but I can see the point on the horizon where I will be. Yet, I consider myself "successful" in as much as I am still on the path I chose for my life -- the rather spotty and not-for-profit path of being an artist. Some people denigrate my choices because they don't pay, usually. But my goal was to not work every day of my life in an office cubicle, wishing I was making art instead, and never having the time to organize any of my more ambitious projects. After many difficult and often depressing years, I finally got there -- on that path where I do art and only occasionally get supplemental "day jobs" that I hate -- and I have successfully maintained that lifestyle for over 10 years now. I am pleased with my progress.

In the last few years I've very much changed what I view as "success". What I now want from life is a job I enjoy in a place I want to live. I currently plan on either teaching English somewhere in France or teaching French at a university in Michigan. Neither job would make me fabulously wealthy, but I really don't care about that. I've been offered jobs doing private military contracting in Iraq and Afghanistan, some for six figures a year, but that's really not what I want at all. I've also been told I could get the hook up for jobs with various military contracting industries in Texas, Kansas or New Jersey but those aren't jobs I want to do and not places I want to live.

moralpolitics.com

One of the questions on this quiz asks you how you define success. So NSG, how do you define success? Is it being rich and living the "good life"? Is it "making a living doing what you love"? Is it defined by the number of people you help in this life. Or something else? Also if you answer in any of the ways mentioned, I've got a few questions.
1) What do you consider being rich and living the good life? What is the lifestyle necessary to be successful?
2) How many people, and in what ways, must you help to be successful?
3) Are you truly successful if people do not approve of you following your passions, and you must, as a result, suffer backlash for your choices?

Just something that has been going through my mind ever since I first took this political quiz.

Umm what ever you define it to be?

success will be getting out of debt, living a normal and less stressful life, and (this is the big one) not having to worry about money.

all of the above would make me happy, so perhaps they are all just means to and end: being happy.

Success is achieving a goal that was determined before starting. How big the success is is determined by the risk associated with attempting the goal, the resulting reward for completing said goal successuflly, and by how difficult it was to achieve said predetermined goal.

I'm not sure if I have mentioned my definition earlier, however I define success as finding your vocation. I define being truly successful by living by the dictates of your passion, talents, and the needs of society. If you are able to do that- great. If you can't, well keep at it, with endurance it will come to you in due time.

I'm not sure if I have mentioned my definition earlier, however I define success as finding your vocation. I define being truly successful by living by the dictates of your passion, talents, and the needs of society. If you are able to do that- great. If you can't, well keep at it, with endurance it will come to you in due time.

I like my definition better. It lets me be successful more.

I like my definition, because it connects me to the greater society. It represents a benchmark of achievement, both materially, as well as socially. What one's vocation can sometimes change in life (see also teacher burnout), thus creating a challenge as one must determine what is it that society requires which he/she can provide, so such a definition can change for each individual. I do regard true success in life to be more than reaching a goal. Reaching predetermined goals set by the self could be defined as temporal, or common, success, while realising and living out one's vocation may be defined as vital success (also Maslow's heirarchy of needs- satisfying the need of self-actualization could be defined as such as well). I understand the question of success, as stated on the moralpolitics quiz, to be about what is the end goal in life, what is most important for you to achieve in life.

NB: posted wrong link, it is supposed to be http://www.moral-politics.com

I like my definition, because it connects me to the greater society. It represents a benchmark of achievement, both materially, as well as socially. What one's vocation can sometimes change in life (see also teacher burnout), thus creating a challenge as one must determine what is it that society requires which he/she can provide, so such a definition can change for each individual. I do regard true success in life to be more than reaching a goal. Reaching predetermined goals set by the self could be defined as temporal, or common, success, while realising and living out one's vocation may be defined as vital success (also Maslow's heirarchy of needs- satisfying the need of self-actualization could be defined as such as well). I understand the question of success, as stated on the moralpolitics quiz, to be about what is the end goal in life, what is most important for you to achieve in life.

NB: posted wrong link, it is supposed to be http://www.moral-politics.com

Screw society. Society is always trying to make me feel like shit and is always asking me to give everything I earned just to feed someone who's milking the system. Society is like one big asshole. It takes, rarely gives, and yells alot.

My definition is simpler.

What do you mean, Hoyteca? What could make you feel this way? I guess, as a communitarian, it is truly difficult for me to grasp your world view, and I feel sorry that you seem to feel that way about your fellow humans.

I think the trend is to allow people to set their own definition of success in order that everyone might achieve it.

If a word is bothersome, invent your own definition, worked for 'torture'.

What do you mean, Hoyteca? What could make you feel this way? I guess, as a communitarian, it is truly difficult for me to grasp your world view, and I feel sorry that you seem to feel that way about your fellow humans.

People are naturally selfish. Forget to teach a kid to share and care and they'll be stabbing you on the street in order to steal your wallet. Our species evolved to survive in a "survival of the fittest" world. You show one sign of weakness and people will be swarming you, asking for favors and cash. Appear weak and those items you loaned people will become gifts. Survival of the fittest. Take away the danger and you'll still have the instincts.

Trust me, when it comes to basic human nature, I must agree. Oftentimes people just focus on their rights- what society can, and should, give them, but they fail to focus on their responsibilities to the society that gives them those rights- what they can, and should, do for the greater good. I know that society has failed on its responsibilities in the past by failing to protect the rights of the individual, instead solely focusing on what individuals can give to society (see also Hitler, Stalin, et al).

Both views are erroneous in my view. There is a balance between rights and responsibilities. In terms of success, society must provide the tools either to get there or for self discovery, in return the individual must use the tools given to attain success and use that success to benefit his/her fellow humanity.

This is how it is supposed to work, but I do understand that is not always the case as a result of the erroneous views I mentioned, which are reflected to one degree or another in various societies and political movements through out history. That is why we have not achieved a perfect society... that and Murphy's Law.

NB: Godwin post #71 :D

People are naturally selfish.
I wouldn't call it natural. Deeply embedded, certainly, but natural, no. Human selfishness is learned behaviour, picked up from the social context the person has originated from. I think the fact that this is stated as unquestioned truth is maintained for the sake of general convenience rather than as some sort of aetherial wisdom.

I strongly believe the human animal is capable of forming a collective sense of well-being. The question is, what changes will we need to make to human society in order to bring that into reality?

In my opinion, success is if the world is in a better state now as a result of your actions and choices than it was before you made them.