NationStates Jolt Archive

Well I just recently got back to the U.S. from a few European countries, and, while I'll spare you the personal bloggable details, upon my return in America, I'd like to share something with you guys that has been bothering me for a while.

The whole obesity problem that the USA has. It's getting ridiculous, and yet we say "it's not their fault"......

I call bullshit. Sure, even in Europe there are people who are overweight, either because they eat too much, don't excersize enough or because they just have shitty genes, but there are neither the same ammount of these overweight people as in the U.S., nor do are these people fat to the extreme weight levels they are in the U.S.

And it's also getting more and more apparent in the generation of young Americans. I'd call a culture (and parents) who don't emphasize activities, exercising, sports and eating well to blame.

But I also feel that when a culture says "well it's not their fault, they can't help it", not only does that grant legitmacy to the terrible lifestyle, but it also convinces parents that it's O.K. to let their children grow up that way. It promotes a climate of laxity where people who need motivation to get healthy won't get it...simply because everyone thinks "it's ok, it's not their fault".

http://rachelhenwood.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/obesity-child-x-5.jpg
So, again, I call bullshit.

I think that we shouldn't accept it as an ok lifestyle, should emphasize more exercise and activities, and should preach a healthier eating-life style.

This healthy culture should be taught both in the household and in the schools.

The people with the genes that predispose them to being overweight may still be, but not to the same extreme as they would be when living under a culture that says "it's not your fault, nothing you can do about it."

I think it's ridiculous when you hear overweight people saying "the people on T.V. are too skinny." Maybe you are just fat?? Maybe you are the one who is unattractive and unhealthy.

We are worried about the health of our planet, the health of our enviornment....so why not worry about the health of our species? The health of our population.

This has got to stop:


USA Obesity Rates Reach Epidemic Proportions

58 Million Overweight; 40 Million Obese; 3 Million morbidly Obese
Eight out of 10 over 25's Overweight
78% of American's not meeting basic activity level recommendations
25% completely Sedentary
76% increase in Type II diabetes in adults 30-40 yrs old since 1990

Obesity Related Diseases
80% of type II diabetes related to obesity
70% of Cardiovascular disease related to obesity
42% breast and colon cancer diagnosed among obese individuals
30% of gall bladder surgery related to obesity
26% of obese people having high blood pressure

Childhood Obesity Running Out of Control
4% overweight 1982 | 16% overweight 1994
25% of all white children overweight 2001
33% African American and Hispanic children overweight 2001
Hospital costs associated with childhood obesity rising from $35 Million (1979) to $127 Million (1999)

Childhood Metabolic and Heart Risks
New study suggests one in four overweight children is already showing early signs of type II diabetes (impaired glucose intolerance)
60% already have one risk factor for heart disease

Surge in Childhood Diabetes
Between 8% - 45% of newly diagnosed cases of childhood diabetes are type II, associated with obesity.
Whereas 4% of Childhood diabetes was type II in 1990, that number has risen to approximately 20%
Depending on the age group (Type II most frequent 10-19 group) and the racial/ethnic mix of group stated
Of Children diagnosed with Type II diabetes, 85% are obese -------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you want to try to make National health care less expensive, promote a healthy lifestyle in our children, both in school and in the home.

Why don't you cry about it, fatty?

1. I'm in very good shape, though no point in arguing about it over the internet.

2. Thanks for getting involved. Stick around.........you know how much I love your company.

Yeah, I have that same bit of culture shock when I come back from Europe too. I remember walking through O'Hare thinking "Holy fuck these people are enormous! I wish I had a knife in case one of them tries to eat me..."

is it just me or is that fat kid getting shorter?

also its not fat its fluffy >.>

If you want to try to make National health care less expensive, promote a healthy lifestyle in our children, both in school and in the home.

Curious that you used this as a closer.

I think you're hinting around a connection here, but missing it. European countries have a tendency to look after their least fortunate, while the US tends to tell people 'it's your own fault, dig yourself out'.

And I think that impacts heavily on the diet and recreation of poorer Americans, both directly and indirectly.

I think this can be borne out by seeing WHERE, demographically, the morbidly obese are in the American population - it's not because they're living extravagantly, it's because food production in the US is geared towards pumping out slightly-repackaged shit.

is it just me or is that fat kid getting shorter?

also its not fat its fluffy >.>
Probably gravity pulling him down.

Why don't you cry about it, fatty?

LMAO

/thread

is it just me or is that fat kid getting shorter?

I think he's slouching more with each iteration.

European countries have a tendency to look after their least fortunate, while the US tends to tell people 'it's your own fault, dig yourself out'.

you seem to be of the impression that we make fat people work for their McDonald's or something? *jumps on your shoulders with a big make on a stick because I have places to be*

Probably gravity pulling him down.

maybe there is food on the floor?

I think he's slouching more with each iteration.

:eek: KFC gives you bad posture!

Curious that you used this as a closer.
I wanted to put something in there about it earlier...but I forgot then remembered at the end...anyway....having a healthy population makes a national health care less expensive....considering all the health risks for fat people and how our kids are getting fatter and more and more unhealthy.

I think you're hinting around a connection here, but missing it. European countries have a tendency to look after their least fortunate, while the US tends to tell people 'it's your own fault, dig yourself out'.
Maybe...but that's more about the American Individualism idea than anything else......though I don't think it ahs to do with obesity levels.....poverty levels, yeah probably...but obesity levels, don't think so.

And I think that impacts heavily on the diet and recreation of poorer Americans, both directly and indirectly.
I don't think it's just poor people at all.......I really don't.
I think this can be borne out by seeing WHERE, demographically, the morbidly obese are in the American population - it's not because they're living extravagantly, it's because food production in the US is geared towards pumping out slightly-repackaged shit.
Meh, I'd disagree. I'd say it's more about being active and healthy...and maintaing and fast metabolism. For example....if you have a fast metabolism, if you're eating a burger every day at lunch, you're not gonna get obese....because you're body, which is in good shape, is gonna metabolize it quickly. But if you are not active and with a slow metabolism, eating a burger every day is going to make you obese over time....because all of that is just sitting in you.

And it doesn't matter if we're talking about burgers or steaks, fried chicken or glazed ham......to me it's about personal fitness and metabolism speed than exact diet.

is it just me or is that fat kid getting shorter?

also its not fat its fluffy >.>

The fatter one is the worse one's posture gets because of the slouching and bending of the neck and spine with the weight.

Encourage people to eat less fast food / fatty foods - you can do that by raising the prices for unhealthy foods, and lowering the prices of vegetables and the like.

is it just me or is that fat kid getting shorter?

also its not fat its fluffy >.>
It's an optical illusion. I measured it. *nods*

Curious that you used this as a closer.

I think you're hinting around a connection here, but missing it. European countries have a tendency to look after their least fortunate, while the US tends to tell people 'it's your own fault, dig yourself out'.

And I think that impacts heavily on the diet and recreation of poorer Americans, both directly and indirectly.

I think this can be borne out by seeing WHERE, demographically, the morbidly obese are in the American population - it's not because they're living extravagantly, it's because food production in the US is geared towards pumping out slightly-repackaged shit.
I agree with both of you (:eek2: I agree with TAI??? *dies* Some detail will probably come up that lets me disagree with him again).

I have also been struck (read: horrified) by the difference in obesity levels between the US and Europe. And I do believe that Americans are stuck in a largely sedentary lifestyle with zero encouragement to do the hard work to change it, and lots of encouragement to just embrace it and stay in it, even though it is damaging our health and our life expectancy while driving up our living expenses with avoidable health care costs (leaving precious little for ones that might not be avoidable). And I am also particularly shocked by levels of childhood obesity in the US.

I don't believe in instituting some rigidly conformist "healthy norm" that could be just as damaging as doing nothing at all about weight attitudes, but I do believe obesity needs to be treated as a public health issue. It's gotten that bad in the US.

And I also believe that the "there's nothing you can do about it, so just accept it" message needs to be changed, but NOT to the usual American opposite message, namely, "you're fat because you're a bad person with a weak character."

Rather, it needs to be "weight is extremely difficult to manage, but it can be managed as long as you use reasonable measures and have reasonable expectations. Health is more important than appearance." And as long as the government does its part to stop encouraging inactivity -- such as making more walk-friendly municipal design, making less car-encouraging municipal design, insisting on proper health education in schools, combined with proper nutrition in schools, properly regulating what goes into our foods and how we are informed of it (so that McD's and HotPockets aren't the only things the poor can afford for dinner and that they have the info with which to make food choices), and requiring more health insurers to cover costs of preventative programs like gym memberships, etc.

ohnoes, fat people. Call for action! ITS AN EPIDEMIC!

Or you know, it's not, and there are far more important and problematic issues both in this country and throughout the world to be enraged about.

Encourage people to eat less fast food / fatty foods - you can do that by raising the prices for unhealthy foods, and lowering the prices of vegetables and the like.
That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.

Having the government tamper with demand prices for foods merges too much into what a command economy does.

You can just TEACH people in school and in the home that it is not acceptable, nor is it good (it's seriously unhealthy) to live that kind of lifestyle.

Do that without raising taxes and regulating markets.

:eek: KFC gives you bad posture!

Damn that Colonel Sanders!

*shakes fist*

ohnoes, fat people. Call for action! ITS AN EPIDEMIC!

Or you know, it's not, and there are far more important and problematic issues both in this country and throughout the world to be enraged about.
You're probably fat. :p

here in USia we have like the perfect storm of the shittiest foods being the cheapest, a goddamned addiction to fast food, very little required exercise at schools, an increasingly sedentary work-life, inner cities where it isn't safe to let the kids go out to play and exurbs where terrified white people think it's even worse, and ridiculously huge TVs.

also, we've been bigger than europeans for several centuries for several reasons anyways.

I don't think it's just poor people at all.......I really don't.

I don't think obesity mainly affects the poor, either.

In the US, obesity is associated with poverty because the majority of affordable foods are highly processed and loaded with fats and sugar. This is why poor Americans are often fat and undernourished at the same time.

But obesity in the US spans economic classes, and I personally believe that, above the poverty line, the most serious contributing problem is our relatively sedentary lifestyle.

That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.

Having the government tamper with demand prices for foods merges too much into what a command economy does.


The government already tampers with the demand heavily in food and agriculture, the food market is not a 'free market'. You have nothing to worry about.


You can just TEACH people in school and in the home that it is not acceptable, nor is it good (it's seriously unhealthy) to live that kind of lifestyle.


They already do, I believe.

You're probably fat. :p

Quite the opposite actually, but that's beside the point.

While agreeing that obesity is not just affecting poor people, here in NZ there is an obvious trend of the poor people in society = the fatter people in society. It also happens to be that the cultures with lower standards of living, education etc. (eg. Maori and Pacific Islander) are statistically 'fatter'.

I blame Jabba and him setting a bad example!

it doesn't matter if we're talking about burgers or steaks, fried chicken or glazed ham......to me it's about personal fitness and metabolism speed than exact diet.

I've seen some pretty fast moving fat people though...maybe its time America learns to dress appropriately (a nice burka could work)

The fatter one is the worse one's posture gets because of the slouching and bending of the neck and spine with the weight.

does this mean people with big asses have good posture?

Encourage people to eat less fast food / fatty foods - you can do that by raising the prices for unhealthy foods, and lowering the prices of vegetables and the like.

vegetables are already cheaper than meat and such though, perhaps we should start work on making cabbage edible

It's an optical illusion. I measured it. *nods*

so heavy not even light can escape the surface?

Or you know, it's not, and there are far more important and problematic issues both in this country and throughout the world to be enraged about.

like heart disease...

Do that without raising taxes and regulating markets.

but they cost more so why not pay for their vices like we do with cigarettes

Damn that Colonel Sanders!

this explains his cane

That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.

Having the government tamper with demand prices for foods merges too much into what a command economy does.

You can just TEACH people in school and in the home that it is not acceptable, nor is it good (it's seriously unhealthy) to live that kind of lifestyle.

Do that without raising taxes and regulating markets.
Oh, thank goodness! Something I can disagree with! I was feeling really uncomfortable. :p

Ahem -- Teaching people that it is no okay to live a high-fat-food/low activity lifestyle is not going to change their weight if they can't afford healthy foods and don't have access to place to get exercise (like workplaces within walking distance of home, or public sports fields that are not overrun by drug dealers or gangs).

You might be able to get away with "teaching" those who are caught up in an obesity-creating lifestyle above the poverty line, but it will do nothing at all for poverty-related obesity.

here in USia we have like the perfect storm of the shittiest foods being the cheapest, a goddamned addiction to fast food, very little required exercise at schools, an increasingly sedentary work-life, inner cities where it isn't safe to let the kids go out to play and exurbs where terrified white people think it's even worse, and ridiculously huge TVs.

also, we've been bigger than europeans for several centuries for several reasons anyways.
I'm not sure about that. We've been traditionally taller than Europeans because of having a diet stronger on wheat and meat, but I don't think the size difference was ever as great between Americans and Europeans as it traditionally has been between us and, say, Asians.

Also, that traditional size difference has nothing to do with obesity. The numbers of obese Americans today are vastly higher than they were even 30 years ago, let alone centuries.

Quite the opposite actually, but that's beside the point.
Nope. It's the internet so you could just as well be fat as you could be skinny. It's all a matter of random chance....and I'm feeling lucky.
I don't think obesity mainly affects the poor, either.

In the US, obesity is associated with poverty because the majority of affordable foods are highly processed and loaded with fats and sugar. This is why poor Americans are often fat and undernourished at the same time.

But obesity in the US spans economic classes, and I personally believe that, above the poverty line, the most serious contributing problem is our relatively sedentary lifestyle.
Indeed.

And a growing tendacy to believe "hey, it's just genetics".....

The government already tampers with the demand heavily in food and agriculture, the food market is not a 'free market'. You have nothing to worry about.
Hey, I'm gonna pinch the skin on your nose.


Hey, since I'm already pinching your nose, let me punch it. What!? Why not? I'm already pinching it after all.


Just because something is already exists does not mean that it has free reign to increase.


They already do, I believe.
Not enough at all. Trust me.

That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.


But it would be a solution.

Americans are too focused on their sense of entitlement. The whole idea that you can have the rights, but be free of responsibility may be the American Dream, but dreams aren't necessarily a good model for REAL life. ANd in this case, it basically means the only way you'll see a BIG difference in obesity in the US, is by heavy pressure being applied to the producers, or to the consumers - but it will take law.

Hey, I'm gonna pinch the skin on your nose.


Hey, since I'm already pinching your nose, let me punch it. What!? Why not? I'm already pinching it after all.


Just because something is already exists does not mean that it has free reign to increase.


Well look, if there is one market that isn't going to go into crisis due to a few more taxes on a few more products, it's the food market. No need to worry. Seriously, stop that, it's silly!

That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.
Works in parts of Europe.

Having the government tamper with demand prices for foods merges too much into what a command economy does.
So it's just the worst solution because it may be taking some steps towards an economic philosophy you don't approve of?

And they already tamper with prices for food.

You can just TEACH people in school and in the home that it is not acceptable, nor is it good (it's seriously unhealthy) to live that kind of lifestyle.
So taking steps towards a "command economy" is bad, but you're all for indoctrination?

Do that without raising taxes and regulating markets.
So you would approve of the educational system telling kids that McDonald's is the Devil?

And it's not working today, so how much indoctrination are you after?

Just because something is already exists does not mean that it has free reign to increase.

well food produce is made artificially low anyway so all it would be doing is pinching your nose slightly less (only to loosen the plug on your catastrophic bleeding!)

...
Maybe...but that's more about the American Individualism idea than anything else......though I don't think it ahs to do with obesity levels.....poverty levels, yeah probably...but obesity levels, don't think so.


I don't think it's just poor people at all.......I really don't...

"Correlation Between Obesity and Poverty: Healthy People 2010 Should Increase Attention On Those In Poverty"

http://www.scienceblog.com/cms/correlation-between-obesity-and-poverty-health-people-2010-should-increase-attention-those-poverty-14046.html

Rather, it needs to be "weight is extremely difficult to manage, but it can be managed as long as you use reasonable measures and have reasonable expectations. Health is more important than appearance." And as long as the government does its part to stop encouraging inactivity -- such as making more walk-friendly municipal design, making less car-encouraging municipal design, insisting on proper health education in schools, combined with proper nutrition in schools, properly regulating what goes into our foods and how we are informed of it (so that McD's and HotPockets aren't the only things the poor can afford for dinner and that they have the info with which to make food choices), and requiring more health insurers to cover costs of preventative programs like gym memberships, etc.

I like just about all of this.

I personally believe that, above the poverty line, the most serious contributing problem is our relatively sedentary lifestyle.

I'd agree. When I lived in Europe I'd walk 10 or 15km every day. Here I could easily go with less than 1km a day if I wanted.

I'm not sure about that. We've been traditionally taller than Europeans because of having a diet stronger on wheat and meat, but I don't think the size difference was ever as great between Americans and Europeans as it traditionally has been between us and, say, Asians.

Also, that traditional size difference has nothing to do with obesity. The numbers of obese Americans today are vastly higher than they were even 30 years ago, let alone centuries.

i'm nearly certain that part of the original largeness is hybrid vigor, in the sense that populations that used to be mutually relatively isolated came here and all started fucking. i would not be surprised at all that there is an actual genetic difference at play still which accounts for some of how awe-inspiringly huge we've gotten in our new cultural circumstances.

That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.

Having the government tamper with demand prices for foods merges too much into what a command economy does.

You can just TEACH people in school and in the home that it is not acceptable, nor is it good (it's seriously unhealthy) to live that kind of lifestyle.

Do that without raising taxes and regulating markets.

You can go and "just TEACH" people whatever you want. But if a family can't afford anything but shit food then no amount of teaching them will get them to eat healthily.

vegetables are already cheaper than meat and such though, perhaps we should start work on making cabbage edible

In your dreams!

:p

You can go and "just TEACH" people whatever you want. But if a family can't afford anything but shit food then no amount of teaching them will get them to eat healthily.
You mean, what they're taught at school isn't the only factor here?? :eek2:

Next thing you know you'll be telling me that teaching kids "abstinence only" in school won't stop kids from having sex!

Yeah, I have that same bit of culture shock when I come back from Europe too. I remember walking through O'Hare thinking "Holy fuck these people are enormous! I wish I had a knife in case one of them tries to eat me..."
I can do better... I just was in Kenya. Everyone there is skin and bones -- except for the politicians, of course. Not emaciated and starving where I was, but not much fat, either. I weigh about 200 and I'm 6 ft tall, so I'm not really fat, just not at my proper anorexic weight of 160 pounds, according to the actuarial tables.

But boy, did I feel fat. And boy did everyone look fat when I got to Amsterdam, not to mention what I saw when I got back to Atlanta.

Of course this is a problem, but I wouldnt put it in a look-at-me-I'm-a-total-dick kinda way like Atlantian Isles.

I think we should almost totally eliminate Western diet and replace it with Japanese.

http://www.weaselhut.net/Bmi30chart.png
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity

PS: I fucked the page :D

Heres a list of Most Overweight Countries in the World:

Rank, Country, %Overweight
1. Nauru 94.5
2. Micronesia, Federated States of 91.1
3. Cook Islands 90.9
4. Tonga 90.8
5. Niue 81.7
6. Samoa 80.4
7. Palau 78.4
8. Kuwait 74.2
9. United States 74.1
10. Kiribati 73.6
11. Dominica 71.0
12. Barbados 69.7
13. Argentina 69.4
14. Egypt 69.4
15. Malta 68.7
16. Greece 68.5
17. New Zealand 68.4
18. United Arab Emirates 68.3
19. Mexico 68.1
20. Trinidad and Tobago 67.9
21. Australia 67.4
22. Belarus 66.8
23. Chile 65.3
24. Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of) 65.2
25. Seychelles 64.6
26. Bahrain 64.1
27. Andorra 63.8
28. United Kingdom 63.8
29. Saudi Arabia 63.5
30. Monaco 62.4
31. Bolivia 62.2
32. San Marino 62.1
33. Guatemala 61.2
34. Mongolia 61.2
35. Canada 61.1
36. Qatar 61.0
37. Uruguay 60.9
38. Jordan 60.5
39. Bahamas 60.4
40. Iceland 60.4
41. Nicaragua 60.4
42. Cuba 60.1
43. Germany 60.1
44. Brunei Darussalam 59.8
45. Slovenia 59.8
46. Peru 59.6
47. Vanuatu 59.6
48. Finland 58.7
49. Jamaica 57.4
Rank Country %
50. Israel 57.3
51. Saint Lucia 57.3
52. Austria 57.1
53. Azerbaijan 57.1
54. Turkey 56.8
55. Tuvalu 56.6
56. Dominican Republic 56.5
57. Slovakia 56.3
58. Cyprus 56.2
59. Saint Kitts and Nevis 56.1
60. Costa Rica 55.8
61. Colombia 55.6
62. Antigua and Barbuda 55.5
63. Switzerland 55.4
64. Montenegro 54.9
65. Serbia 54.9
66. Serbia and Montenegro (The former state union of) 54.9
67. Albania 54.8
68. Fiji 54.8
69. Bulgaria 54.2
70. Luxembourg 54.2
71. Croatia 53.9
72. Bosnia and Herzegovina 53.8
73. Portugal 53.8
74. Armenia 53.3
75. Grenada 53.3
76. South Africa 53.3
77. Iran (Islamic Republic of) 53.2
78. Libyan Arab Jamahiriya 53.2
79. Lithuania 53.1
80. Lebanon 53.0
81. Czech Republic 52.9
82. Syrian Arab Republic 52.8
83. Spain 51.8
84. Hungary 51.6
85. Panama 51.4
86. Tunisia 51.0
87. Saint Vincent and the Grenadines 50.6
88. Brazil 50.5
89. Belize 49.8
90. Sweden 49.7
91. Norway 49.1
92. Russian Federation 49.1
93. El Salvador 48.7
94. Lesotho 48.5
95. Suriname 47.8
96. Paraguay 47.7
97. Guyana 47.5
98. Poland 47.5
99. Latvia 47.3
100. The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia 47.2
101. Ecuador 47.1
102. Turkmenistan 46.8
103. Ireland 46.6
104. Belgium 46.3
105. Marshall Islands 46.2
106. Netherlands 46.0
107. Uzbekistan 46.0
108. Denmark 45.8
109. Mauritius 45.6
110. Oman 45.6
111. Italy 45.5
112. Iraq 45.4
113. Georgia 44.8
114. Ukraine 44.8
115. Solomon Islands 44.0
116. Botswana 43.6
117. Honduras 43.5
118. Equatorial Guinea 43.0
119. Morocco 42.9
120. Dem. Republic of Timor-Leste 42.7
121. Mauritania 42.5
122. Estonia 42.2
123. Republic of Korea 42.0
124. Swaziland 41.8
125. Kazakhstan 41.4
126. Republic of Moldova 41.1
127. Bhutan 40.9
128. France 40.1
129. Cameroon 39.9
130. Maldives 39.9
131. Algeria 39.8
132. Dem. People's Republic of Korea 39.4
133. Kyrgyzstan 39.2
134. Romania 39.1
135. Lao People's Democratic Republic 38.9
136. Cape Verde 38.2
137. Tajikistan 37.3
138. Gabon 36.5
139. Myanmar 36.3
140. Liberia 35.6
141. Sierra Leone 33.4
142. Haiti 32.8
143. Zimbabwe 32.1
144. Thailand 31.6
145. Papua New Guinea 30.2
146. Malaysia 29.9
147. Ghana 29.2
148. China 28.9
149. Benin 28.5
150. Comoros 28.0
151. Angola 27.5
152. Nigeria 27.1
153. Yemen 27.0
154. Senegal 26.4
155. Philippines 25.2
156. Djibouti 24.9
157. Mali 24.1
158. Togo 24.0
159. Guinea 23.5
160. Sudan 23.1
161. Cote d'Ivoire 22.9
162. Singapore 22.9
163. Japan 22.6
164. Namibia 22.5
165. Pakistan 22.2
166. Sao Tome and Principe 21.4
167. United Republic of Tanzania 21.2
168. Malawi 19.3
169. Congo 18.9
170. Niger 17.6
171. Madagascar 17.4
172. Mozambique 17.3
173. Guinea-Bissau 16.7
174. Gambia 16.6
175. Indonesia 16.2
176. India 16.0
177. Somalia 15.8
178. Chad 15.6
179. Afghanistan 15.1
180. Uganda 14.8
181. Kenya 14.3
182. Burkina Faso 14.1
183. Rwanda 13.7
184. Zambia 13.0
185. Burundi 12.9
186. Central African Republic 12.9
187. Cambodia 11.3
188. Dem. Republic of the Congo 9.1
189. Nepal 8.4
190. Sri Lanka 7.4
191. Vietnam 6.4
192. Bangladesh 6.1
193. Ethiopia 5.6
194. Eritrea 4.4
http://www.epidemiologic.org/2007/02/most-overweight-countries-in-world.html

That's why I really prefer European women to American women. My neighbor's idea of exercise, is to walk from her front door to the garage.
It's no wonder she's over weight.

This is actually a huge problem (no pun intended). We just watched Supersize Me in health, which was the culmination of an entire semester spent telling us how to eat healthy and incorporate exercise into our lives.
Apparently some guy in Canada did the exact same thing as the guy from Supersize Me down to the exact menu of the movie on a day to day basis...except he exercised one hour every morning. And guess what? He didn't gain weight.

Society needs to focus more on getting people off their asses and so they can excercise.

This is actually a huge problem (no pun intended). We just watched Supersize Me in health, which was the culmination of an entire semester spent telling us how to eat healthy and incorporate exercise into our lives.
Apparently some guy in Canada did the exact same thing as the guy from Supersize Me down to the exact menu of the movie on a day to day basis...except he exercised one hour every morning. And guess what? He didn't gain weight.

Society needs to focus more on getting people off their asses and so they can excercise.

Diet, not exercise, plays key role in weight loss.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28524942/

First of all, you should change your stupid American diet.

Rank, Country, %Overweight
1. Nauru 94.5
2. Micronesia, Federated States of 91.1
3. Cook Islands 90.9
4. Tonga 90.8
5. Niue 81.7
6. Samoa 80.4
7. Palau 78.4


In fairness to these micro states, I'm pretty sure Polynesian peoples are genetically pre-disposed to obesity..... I think.

In fairness to these micro states, I'm pretty sure Polynesian peoples are genetically pre-disposed to obesity..... I think.

That is correct. Theres genetics involved. So thats why people shouldnt be dicks like Atlantian Isles when dealing with this.

But theres a problem with the Western diet. As I said, look at Japan, they are rich like Western countries but still healthy.

Edit: Correction, theres a problem with non-Japanese diet. Countries like Kuwait, Mongolia, Argentina, Egypt are pretty high in the list as well.

I think that we shouldn't accept it as an ok lifestyle, should emphasize more exercise and activities, and should preach a healthier eating-life style.


QFT. Expecially about eating. Afaik, americans tend to eat and drink things that are usually either too fat or too sweet, or both. Also those fizzy drinks everywhere, including schools. I wonder why americans prefer drinking sodas than plain water. Or mineral water.

Anyway, I've heard that there's a correlation between being poor and having an unhealty lifestyle. Poor people tend to eat more junk food (it's cheaper and takes less time), don't have time for physical exercise, and are generally less conscious about the risks of a bad lifestyle.

Here in Italy, in the last 20 years the mid-class has lost a lot of buying power: in the same years, the figures for child obesity have increased dramatically. Italy is now first in the EU for child obesity percentage. :( And this should be the homeland of the mediterranean diet.

"Are you addicted to food?"

How appropriate an advertisement.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1042/1271773807_f3ea0b4768_o.png

or...

http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/fattest-states-2008-big.gif

compared to...

http://online.wsj.com/media/info-poverty0604-states.gif

That's why I really prefer European women to American women.

:eek: American be stealin our wimmenz!

I wonder why americans prefer drinking sodas than plain water. Or mineral water.

we should introduce them to tea at an early age *nods*

this should be the homeland of the mediterranean diet.

no wonder they are choosing to eat fast food :p

Oh great, another punk American college student gets back from Europe and thinks he has the answers to everything.

Oh great, another punk American college student gets back from Europe and thinks he has the answers to everything.

yes Europe is so awesome you can learn stuff just be sharing our air :)

we should introduce them to tea at an early age *nods*
Have 'em pissing out all their weight due to its diuretic nature.

That's quite possibly the worst solution I've ever heard.

Having the government tamper with demand prices for foods merges too much into what a command economy does.

You can just TEACH people in school and in the home that it is not acceptable, nor is it good (it's seriously unhealthy) to live that kind of lifestyle.

Do that without raising taxes and regulating markets.

Eliminating corn subsidies would go a long way in curbing the cheap plentitude of high fructose corn syrup and fatty corn-fed beef that lay at the heart of the obesity problem, and would actually correct a serious market distortion.

Have 'em pissing out all their weight due to its diuretic nature.

Tea leaves contain more than 700 chemicals, among which the compounds closely related to human health are flavanoides, amino acids, vitamins (C, E and K), caffeine and polysaccharides. Moreover, tea drinking has recently proven to be associated with cell-mediated immune function of the human body. Tea plays an important role in improving beneficial intestinal microflora, as well as providing immunity against intestinal disorders and in protecting cell membranes from oxidative damage. Tea also prevents dental caries due to the presence of fluorine. The role of tea is well established in normalizing blood pressure, lipid depressing activity, prevention of coronary heart diseases and diabetes by reducing the blood-glucose activity. Tea also possesses germicidal and germistatic activities against various gram-positive and gram negative human pathogenic bacteria. Both green and black tea infusions contain a number of antioxidants, mainly catechins that have anti-carcinogenic, anti-mutagenic and anti-tumoric properties. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea#Potential_effects_of_tea_on_health)

I think I just solved all of Americas health problems :cool:

Eliminating corn subsidies would go a long way in curbing the cheap plentitude of high fructose corn syrup and fatty corn-fed beef that lay at the heart of the obesity problem, and would actually correct a serious market distortion.

If you ever run for office on that platform, call me so I can watch you get drawn and quartered.

*waves tea cup*

A toast to your discovery, sir!

If you ever run for office on that platform, call me so I can watch you get drawn and quartered.

I know it's politically impossible. I'm just sayin' is all.

"Are you addicted to food?"

How appropriate an advertisement.

I totally am. I need a regular hit of food to live, man.

I would say it's due to a combination of things.

1. Sugar in foods, it's happening in Europe as well but sugar just seems to be the generic taster for food, the cheaper the food, the more likely to just be loaded up with sugar. I don't care what kind of sugar it actually is, there's just a lot of it in our diet.
2. Buy high, sell low - when I go into American supermarkets, I'm just like 'Fooooood', there is so much, so cheap, in such large variety packs, the cereals alone are just extraordinary. In Europe, you're lucky to find cornflakes and they cost GBP3.50, we just don't buy as much food.
3. A car culture - one thing that hampers my ability to travel America is that I don't drive, some cities are really just a conglomeration of malls and there's just no way of walking, no easy means of public transport, it's harder to walk than anything else.

These 3 alone go a long way, it becomes epidemic because when lots of people become overweight, it almost becomes acceptable.

Anyway, I suspect it will only get worse, the entire infrastructure is built around not walking.

Obesity is the natural evolving of the Human body. Soon, we will no longer need the use of limbs. Obesity is the new master race, and America is just ahead of the game.

Hm, in Arabian countries, the fatter a woman is, the more desirable (or, in the case of more backward countries, more valuable) she's considered. So I don't think it's really that big of a problem, especially when humanity's facing more serious issues.

As for the obese, it's their fault, their problem.

Obesity is the natural evolving of the Human body. Soon, we will no longer need the use of limbs. Obesity is the new master race, and America is just ahead of the game.

Can't do better than the wheel, can ya? Redefines public transit.

As for the obese, it's their fault, their problem.

If it's linked to poverty, I'm not sure you can place all the blame on the victims.

This thread made me hungry. I ate a whole stick of butter.

Seriously though, OP, why the hell does it matter to you? Medicine isn't socialized here, so what's it hurting you?

Let the fatties be.

If it's linked to poverty, I'm not sure you can place all the blame on the victims.

I seriously doubt that even one single person in the US got fat out of poverty.

Have you paid for lettuce, tomatos, cucumbers, avocados, onions, mushrooms, peppers and other salad items lately? They and other fresh vegetables and fruits cost a fortune in stores here in NYC. Believe me, I was shocked with my last bill. Unfortunately, the price of food here skyrockets with the overblown rents paid by supermarkets. There is a reason that people go for the cheaper carbs, meats and veggies.

This thread made me hungry. I ate a whole stick of butter.

Seriously though, OP, why the hell does it matter to you? Medicine isn't socialized here, so what's it hurting you?

Let the fatties be.

Medical insurance wouldn't be making small employers and individuals yelp in pain if they weren't also bearing the burden of obesity-related illnesses from other claimants.

If we did away with the insurance industry and made people pay out of pocket - or if insurers wouldn't cover lifestyle choices - it might be different. But then they would get sued for civil rights violations probably. Plus the potential for abuse - imagine if your insurer suddenly decided you had to go vegan to be covered. You get my drift. I'm just spewing ideas again.

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1042/1271773807_f3ea0b4768_o.png

or...

http://calorielab.com/news/wp-images/post-images/fattest-states-2008-big.gif

compared to...

http://online.wsj.com/media/info-poverty0604-states.gif

Crass to quote myself, but I think people should take a look.

I seriously doubt that even one single person in the US got fat out of poverty.

Fast food chains have excellent deals.

I seriously doubt that even one single person in the US got fat out of poverty.

You haven't been reading the thread, have you...

(Or any of the current research, but the thread would have been a start).

Have you paid for lettuce, tomatos, cucumbers, avocados, onions, mushrooms, peppers and other salad items lately? They and other fresh vegetables and fruits cost a fortune in stores here in NYC. Believe me, I was shocked with my last bill. Unfortunately, the price of food here skyrockets with the overblown rents paid by supermarkets. There is a reason that people go for the cheaper carbs, meats and veggies.

I agree, and the way that food is produced is almost a crime against humanity, from vegetables picked early and then ripened artificially, to meat that's mass-produced, none of the cheap food is nutritious and it's mostly carbohydrates, sugar and fat.

Producers are allowed to sell us crap filled with artificial sweeteners, preservatives and all sorts of chemicals for which we cannot know the long-term effects.

America is set up to produce fat people, alas, Europe's well on its way.

Fast food chains have excellent deals.
But you also have those huge grocery stores... don't they sell salad, rice, etc.?

Medical insurance wouldn't be making small employers and individuals yelp in pain if they weren't also bearing the burden of obesity-related illnesses from other claimants.

If we did away with the insurance industry and made people pay out of pocket - or if insurers wouldn't cover lifestyle choices - it might be different. But then they would get sued for civil rights violations probably. Plus the potential for abuse - imagine if your insurer suddenly decided you had to go vegan to be covered. You get my drift. I'm just spewing ideas again.

Fair enough.

Gastric Bypass isn't elective, is it? I'm sure if the employers left literature in the rest room, it wouldn't be considered abuse.:p

But you also have those huge grocery stores... don't they sell salad, rice, etc.?

Could you imagine having literally NO job? Or maybe you're working part time as a janitor, or a fry cook, or secretary, and you're getting 15k a year to support your two kids without a second earner in the family because your baby daddy left you for you don't know what? If you're lucky, you have two jobs, one during the day and one during the night.

Where does the time or money come from to buy vegetables so your kids can eat a healthy and well balanced diet?

I don't think you're trying hard enough to understand what it would actually be like to be impoverished.

But you also have those huge grocery stores... don't they sell salad, rice, etc.?

"Hey, extra large burritoes for 1.99!"

As many people have pointed out, healthy food is not within the poor persons budget.

The US must be a weird country indeed. Both here, in Germany, in Hungary, Romania (and I'm pretty sure that also in other countries), a Big Mac costs more than a 200g pack of rice. If I was impoverished, I'd buy the rice (potatoes are even cheaper).

You can get a double cheeseburger for .99c. I guarantee they don't sell any amount of rice large enough to feed a person a normal sized meal for under a dollar. The cheapest way to buy things like that is to buy in bulk, but buying in bulk involves planning for the future, which is not something you can do if you literally live from paycheck to mouth.

Another way to look at it isn't in prices, but calories. A double cheeseburger has 421 calories in it. How much white rice do you have to eat to get that kind of caloric content? And not only that, but it also has cheese, bread, pickles, tomato, pickle relish, ketchup, mustard, etc. on it. I'm not saying its healthy, but you'll only get fat if you eat only double cheeseburgers. You'll die if you only eat rice.

You can get a double cheeseburger for .99c.
It's 8 times more expensive here.

http://cep.mcdonalds.com/dollar/
All the disgusting things you can get for a dollar!

(at the very bottom, god only knows what that reality tv stuff is)

The US must be a weird country indeed. Both here, in Germany, in Hungary, Romania (and I'm pretty sure that also in other countries), a Big Mac costs more than a 200g pack of rice. If I was impoverished, I'd buy the rice (potatoes are even cheaper).

Pound for pound, the foods you are described are actually still cheaper here. But the people we are discussing (and I have been guilty myself) are not inclined to buy groceries and prepare them which is the root cause of the problem - either a perceived lack of time or laziness depending on your viewpoint. For me, it would be a perceived lack of time (and cooking skills)

Why buy groceries and cook them when for only a small margin more you can have someone else prepare them and make them taste good etc.

EDIT: And waste. Some people live alone and don't like to buy the amount of groceries it would take to make the grocery shopping time investment economical because the food would spoil while they organized and consumed it.

Laziness is one's own fault. I live alone and even I can find the 20-30min and minimal skill to put pasta into hot salt water (as for storing it, I don't buy the family pack).

I still blame the fact that you can buy McD sandwiches for under a dollar. The cheapest McDonald's sandwich, the cheeseburger, costs CHF3.50 over here, more than thrice as much as in the US. Idiotic.

The US must be a weird country indeed.

Yes it is. Also, when you have to work 60 or 70 hours a week at substandard minimum wage a $5.00 large Hot 'N Ready pizza you can get in 30 seconds from Little Caeser's sounds pretty good.

yes Europe is so awesome you can learn stuff just be sharing our air :)

you tell em...
by the way not all European countries have lots of slim people, e.g. look at the figures for obesity in Scots/Irish/English, and as other posters have suggested the difference in political/philosophical outlook on the poor between Europe and U.S. is noticeable.
Yep it's the welfare state thing again, free healthcare (to an extent) is important in regards to keeping populations more healthy.
then again these are two wholly different pieces of land mass, and people so there's bound to be good reasons for why the OP has those figures.

It's 8 times more expensive here.
Well, then, you don't really know anything at all about diet, lifestyle and obesity in the US, do you? And since the topic is obesity in the US, your input so far isn't really worth much, based as it is on ignorance.

Pound for pound, the foods you are described are actually still cheaper here. But the people we are discussing (and I have been guilty myself) are not inclined to buy groceries and prepare them which is the root cause of the problem - either a perceived lack of time or laziness depending on your viewpoint. For me, it would be a perceived lack of time (and cooking skills)

Why buy groceries and cook them when for only a small margin more you can have someone else prepare them and make them taste good etc.

EDIT: And waste. Some people live alone and don't like to buy the amount of groceries it would take to make the grocery shopping time investment economical because the food would spoil while they organized and consumed it.
This doesn't work and here's why:

1) Your personal experience does not set the standard for all Americans, so the reason you choose fast foods over your own cooking means nothing.

2) It is not a "perceived" lack of time, when you are talking about a single-earner family trying to manage multiple children while working enough hours at minimum wage to keep a roof over their heads. The lack of time is very real.

3) You are flat-out wrong about fresh fruits, vegies and grains costing less to feed a family than restaurant fast foods. The "value menu" items at places like MacDonald's, Wendy's, BK are priced as low as they are because those chains are able to buy ingredients in bulk at such a volume that their cost per plate is far, far less than any family would be paying at retail from a grocery store. People who like to blame the poor for their problems always trot out this "fresh food costs less per pound" BS, and they are always wrong. You can buy a pound of tomatoes for less than you can get a pound of fried chicken with sides, but one pound of tomatoes is not going to be enough to fuel a family of three or four for 24 hours, the way the high-fat and sugar prepared food will. Your "responsible" poor people could eat like the most health-conscious vegans, but if they don't have more money, they'll starve doing it.

And before you come back with the old "they can afford to lose some weight" joke, it's not a matter of weight loss or gain. It's a matter of having enough calories in a day to keep the body running and the brain focused for work or school. It's not good enough to eat the right foods, you have to have the right amount of food, too. Below the poverty line, families just can't get that without resorting to cheap processed foods that give them the fuel, but not the nutrition. It's a vicious choice they have to make -- starve on healthy foods in amounts too low to get the right calorie levels, or bloat on unhealthy foods that give too many calories. They can't afford to strike the right balance between too much and too little.

Laziness is one's own fault. I live alone and even I can find the 20-30min and minimal skill to put pasta into hot salt water (as for storing it, I don't buy the family pack).

I still blame the fact that you can buy McD sandwiches for under a dollar. The cheapest McDonald's sandwich, the cheeseburger, costs CHF3.50 over here, more than thrice as much as in the US. Idiotic.
You're right about this much -- the market for the big fast food chains in the US does quite deliberately exploit the needs of the poor for volume sales of cheap food.

McDonald's is, or at least has been for a very long time (I haven't checked the numbers recently), the single biggest buyer of food from farms and distributors in the United States. They essentially set the price standards for beef, tomatoes, lettuce, and most of their other ingredients, and whatever McD's wants, that's what the farms will produce.

If McD decided to go vegan tomorrow and bought that food at the same volume and sold it at the same prices that they do now, they could almost single-handedly start changing the tide of obesity and health problems in the US.

Welcome to one of the side effects of near-unregulated Free Market Capitalism. Junk food peddlers will target kids, and shit that'll kill you is always cheaper and apparently tastier than healthy food. If you want kids to eat healthier, that's Nanny State Socialism you're trying to impose.

If McD decided to go vegan tomorrow and bought that food at the same volume and sold it at the same prices that they do now, they could almost single-handedly start changing the tide of obesity and health problems in the US.
And they would totally screw Whole Foods up. I say its a win-win.

Heres a list of Most Overweight Countries in the World:

Rank, Country, %Overweight
1. Nauru 94.5
2. Micronesia, Federated States of 91.1
3. Cook Islands 90.9
4. Tonga 90.8
5. Niue 81.7
6. Samoa 80.4
7. Palau 78.4
8. Kuwait 74.2
9. United States 74.1
10. Kiribati 73.6
I wonder if the reason all those Pacific Island countries are in the top ten is not so much because they are a nation of fatties but rather WHO is applying bad criteria. Polynesians are very big people on the whole and so are naturally 'over' weight according to the criteria used for Westerners. They're all very big-boned, unlike the Japanese who are very small-framed which is why the Japanese find it so easy to stay in the underweight category.
The natural, healthy weight-range for Polynesians is much higher than for Japanese. If we apply the same criteria for what constitutes a fatty for both groups then we would have 90+% of Polynesians falling within the obese category.

ohnoes, fat people. Call for action! ITS AN EPIDEMIC!

Or you know, it's not, and there are far more important and problematic issues both in this country and throughout the world to be enraged about.
Aye because heart attacks and diabetes are cheap to deal with.

I bet others already mentioned it, but it's really as simple as portions. I saw a show that compared portions from decades ago to today in fast food places, more than twice the size. They fed nothing but McDonald's to some college kids for a month and they actually lost weight. You can really eat what you want no matter what, it's the amount that gets you if you're predisposed to gain weight.

like heart disease...


Right, well you can go ahead and get outraged about heart disease if you want. But you know, since stress is a major factor in heart conditions, I think that outrage is somewhat counter-productive, don't you?

Nope. It's the internet so you could just as well be fat as you could be skinny. It's all a matter of random chance....and I'm feeling lucky.

No, the chance of me being something other than I am not is exactly 0%, and it doesn't matter that you're using the internet.

Unless you're calling me a liar, you can just have a nice glass of STFU. And frankly if you think "lol you must be fat" is some sort of retort, you should be drinking that glass anyway. Down the hatch, it's healthy for you.

Aye because heart attacks and diabetes are cheap to deal with.

No National health issue - or frankly any National level issue - is "cheap to deal with." And you know, cost isn't the overriding factor in everything.

Yes it is. Also, when you have to work 60 or 70 hours a week at substandard minimum wage a $5.00 large Hot 'N Ready pizza you can get in 30 seconds from Little Caeser's sounds pretty good.
There's nothing wrong with fast food per se.

The quantity is more important here, especially if you combine snacks like potato chips or choclit with the healthy energy loaded megapizza.

edit:
...furthermore on topic, being in good shape is more important than having the right BMI.

No National health issue - or frankly any National level issue - is "cheap to deal with." And you know, cost isn't the overriding factor in everything.
Uhu... what's your point here?

Fatarses costing the healthcare service money is bad. And not exactly hard to prevent.

Uhu... what's your point here?

Fatarses costing the healthcare service money is bad. And not exactly hard to prevent.

it's not really that, it's that the health and education of a country's citizens should be of paramount importance to a government. Make that the primary goal and most other issues should at least be alleviated in a number of ways.

The attitude of 'let obese people be obese, we've more important things to deal with' is shallow.

It is quite funny that America's appetites for fatty, sugary food and drugs will do more damage to it than communists ever did. Unless it was a communist plot to set up KFC...

It is quite funny that America's appetites for fatty, sugary food and drugs will do more damage to it than communists ever did. Unless it was a communist plot to set up KFC...
In the words of Lenin, "Class warfare is the overriding morality of the state, and it justifies the use of the Family MegaBucket to smash the cruel shackles of the international proletariat".

...
They're all very big-boned, unlike the Japanese who are very small-framed which is why the Japanese find it so easy to stay in the underweight category.
...


I dunno, I still think Japanese diet is the best, maybe could be even better with a lil bit of Mediterranean diet thrown in.


"Thanks to the relatively healthier Japanese diet and lifestyle, Japanese women and men live longer and healthier than everyone else on Earth," Moriyama tells WebMD. Not only can they expect to live 86 and 79 years respectively (compared to 80 and 75 years for Americans), but they can also anticipate an average of 75 years lived healthy and disability-free, the World Health Organization reports. On top of that, Japanese people enjoy the No. 1 lowest obesity rate in the developed world -- 3% -- versus 11% for the French and 32% for Americans, according to the International Obesity TaskForce. "You might think it's all in our genes," Moriyama says. "But when Japanese people adopt a Western-style diet, they put on weight quickly."

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/diets-of-world-japanese-diet

I think that a small amount of recal will perhaps offer a hint at the resons why USA citizens are fatter then Europeans.

A week or two back on a thread about meat, or food or somesuch a USAsian mentioned that he could not find a decent staeak in the UK, and when questioned it seems that what was meant by the wrod decent, was large. As the cheif complaint was that he could not find a stake over 500 grams. Thats' half a kilo of meat people, or 1.1 British pounds(not sterling) all along with whatever else one has with their steak!

I don't know about the rest of you out there, but I just could not eat that much.

Unless it was a communist plot to set up KFC...

Sure it is. What background color is the KFC logo? That's right. Commie red! And what have we here?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/f/f6/Kentuckyleader.jpg/125px-Kentuckyleader.jpg

Sure it is. What background color is the KFC logo? That's right. Commie red! And what have we here?

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/uncyclopedia/images/thumb/f/f6/Kentuckyleader.jpg/125px-Kentuckyleader.jpg

He looks kind of North Korean to me

He looks kind of North Korean to me

He's too well fed to be North Korean.

I think that a small amount of recal will perhaps offer a hint at the resons why USA citizens are fatter then Europeans.

A week or two back on a thread about meat, or food or somesuch a USAsian mentioned that he could not find a decent staeak in the UK, and when questioned it seems that what was meant by the wrod decent, was large. As the cheif complaint was that he could not find a stake over 500 grams. Thats' half a kilo of meat people, or 1.1 British pounds(not sterling) all along with whatever else one has with their steak!

I don't know about the rest of you out there, but I just could not eat that much.
That's another cultural problem in the US that we really need to do something about. It's a near-cult-like social conditioning for mega-consumption. I'm an American, and I somehow missed that brainwashing class because I nearly faint at the mere sight of portions being sold to Americans as "normal," "healthy," and "standard." I don't know how people can eat as much in a single sitting as I see people eat, without rupturing their stomaches and dying on the spot, Mr. Creosote-style.

I have a theory about that, but it's ranty, complicated, and way off-topic.

I dunno, I still think Japanese diet is the best, maybe could be even better with a lil bit of Mediterranean diet thrown in.


I'm not eating whale, if for the only fact that they breed so slowly that they aren't a viable food source.

Oh, and fuck raman.

*snip*

An excellent summary of where the problem lies. It is more a poverty issue than a laziness issue. Once that habit is ingrained in a child, he or she is less likely to spontaneously develop healthy eating habits as an adult. The U.S. is reaping the rewards of ignoring the poor for the past 25 years, and that reward is a collapsing health care system and an obesity epidemic.

I blame the internet, television, and over-protective parents. When the baby boomers were children, their parents kicked them out of the house. They ran around the neighborhoods engaged in pickup basketball or baseball games. Now, they get together and play counter-strike or halo, or don't interact at all and just sit in front of the television because their parents are scared of the neighbors kidnapping the young 'uns with CNN and FOX News scaring the crap out of everybody.

I'm not eating whale, if for the only fact that they breed so slowly that they aren't a viable food source.

Oh, and fuck raman.

I'm not a big fan of raw squid, or fish that can kill me if it is not properly prepared. Besides, aren't they all 5' with tiny...you know...feet?

I'm not a big fan of raw squid, or fish that can kill me if it is not properly prepared. Besides, aren't they all 5' with tiny...you know...feet?

At least they can see their...feet

I'm not a big fan of raw squid, or fish that can kill me if it is not properly prepared. Besides, aren't they all 5' with tiny...you know...feet?

The Japanese diet leans heavily towards sea food, and the waters around Japan are ravaged. I'm not a picky eater, but cows aren't going exctinct any time soon.

Uhu... what's your point here?

Uh huh, my point is that costs aren't the primary concern with these things, because every single thing government does costs money. Your complaint of "OHNOES! IT COSTS MOENY!" is just ridiculous.

Fatarses costing the healthcare service money is bad. And not exactly hard to prevent.

Oh, well shit, why hasn't anyone elected you to a position of high office and then you could wave your magic wand and make everything better, for free? You could implement strict health regimens that would magically not restrict civil liberties in any way, you could clamp down on those mean nasty businesses who "sell poison" but it would magically not infringe on the free market or again, civil liberties. You could start a magic government propaganda and health broadcast that would of course, cost no money whatsoever. You'd solve the 'crisis' in just a few days.

Also while you're protecting the world from the dangers of free choice you could ban smoking an driving and anything else that might have the effect of costing taxpayers money. Of course this will be a magically no-cost ban, as would the enforcement but it's all in the name of combating "fatarses" so no magical expenses can be spared!

I don't know if you're trying to advance your point, but convincing people would be easier without all the personal attacks and sarcasm. Money saved on health care could go towards advertising, though obviously some money for advertising has to come first. I doubt our government couldn't find some money somewhere, though. They seem to be good at creating fictional dollars.

I don't know if you're trying to advance your point, but convincing people would be easier without all the personal attacks and sarcasm.

Well there's no chance of convincing people whose main debating tactics seems to be using derogatory language to refer to fat people. It's real cute and all that it's PC to slam on obesity ("fatarses," or TAI's accusing me of being fat for disagreeing with him) but just because people have an ability does not mean they should use it. I have the ability to throw poop, for example.

And I don't see a sarcastic response to some glib LOL, FAT PEOPLE IS FUNNY as being a "personal attack." I'm not attacking anyone personally, I am attacking an offensive stance.

Money saved on health care could go towards advertising, though obviously some money for advertising has to come first. I doubt our government couldn't find some money somewhere, though. They seem to be good at creating fictional dollars.

So where do we draw the line? I mean, what other lifestyle choices should we pay the government to spread propaganda in favor of? And I like how we're paying the government because the government is taking too much money (apparently) for health care.

Yeah it's always too much money for health care, until you need it yourself. Always good and well to say "Oh they did it themselves with their awful, awful lifestyle choices" until your own imperfect lifestyle choices land you in the shit. Always good to derogatively refer to all heart disease patients as "fatarses" so you feel better about depriving them of health care.

I don't think we should deprive anyone of health care, but if there is a safe and effective way to reduce the amount of strain put on our health care system, then I'm all for it. I think the system itself kinda forces strain on it. What I mean by that poorly worded sentence is that our system encourages the use of emergency treatment for conditions that should have been treated when they appeared. Due to our garbage system, however, people decide to ignore symptoms until they become debilitating and they have to go in for procedures that cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. And of course there are very few people in this country who can actually pay such a bill, so the government picks up the tab. This isn't just for obese or overweight people, but the link between poverty and obesity can hold true for everything I've said as well.

This isn't really a debate over health care, so much as a debate over the role of government, since the (possible) solution to this problem extends beyond simply changing health care. We need that, but we'd also need to implement programs that educate and assist the poor in making the correct choices to improve their own health.

I mean, what other lifestyle choices should we pay the government to spread propaganda in favor of?
The ones that negatively effect those that the government is proported to serve. And I know "negative effects" can be subjective, but some aren't. For instance, are you against the government's ad campaigns against smoking? Or drunk driving? There are certain things where a negative impact on individuals and society can be empirically proven, but the role of choice still plays a part. In this case, the government cannot force people to do anything, but can attempt through education (or propoganda, if you'd prefer) to get people to change of their own accord.

People who like to blame the poor for their problems always trot out this "fresh food costs less per pound" BS, and they are always wrong. You can buy a pound of tomatoes for less than you can get a pound of fried chicken with sides, but one pound of tomatoes is not going to be enough to fuel a family of three or four for 24 hours, the way the high-fat and sugar prepared food will. Your "responsible" poor people could eat like the most health-conscious vegans, but if they don't have more money, they'll starve doing it.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I wasn't blaming the poor at all. I thought we were discussing people who were willfully obese but had enough money to choose a different lifestyle.

Earlier you mentioned that fast food companies were able to get their ingredients in bulk, and that was why they rivaled the cost of groceries. I agree with this. I'm not sure what to do about it, short of banning fast food chains from being allowed to participate in the wholesale goods market. But chill out on the personal attacks.

Please don't put words in my mouth. I wasn't blaming the poor at all. I thought we were discussing people who were willfully obese but had enough money to choose a different lifestyle.

Earlier you mentioned that fast food companies were able to get their ingredients in bulk, and that was why they rivaled the cost of groceries. I agree with this. I'm not sure what to do about it, short of banning fast food chains from being allowed to participate in the wholesale goods market. But chill out on the personal attacks.
Or you know, you could chill out on the taking every single word so very personally. And frankly, if you're so sensitive about people taking a negative view of your statements, you perhaps should read the thread more closely. We have not been discussing people who willfully fatten themselves out of laziness or self-indulgence or whatever. We have been discussing obesity in the US in general but with a particular emphasis on obesity connected to poverty. In particular, the specific post you were responding to was talking about nutrition problems associated with poverty, as in not being able to afford more healthy food. So, yeah, I don't think I'll apologize for criticizing a post that answered a comment about poverty with some uninformed remark about how healthy food is really cheaper than junk food and people could eat it if they wanted to.

In addition, the "healthy food costs less than fast food" erroneous argument is one that is made by those who like to blame the poor for their problems. If you don't want to look like you belong to that group, you should perhaps try to avoid repeating their arguments.

I agree, and the way that food is produced is almost a crime against humanity, from vegetables picked early and then ripened artificially, to meat that's mass-produced, none of the cheap food is nutritious and it's mostly carbohydrates, sugar and fat.

Producers are allowed to sell us crap filled with artificial sweeteners, preservatives and all sorts of chemicals for which we cannot know the long-term effects.

America is set up to produce fat people, alas, Europe's well on its way.
Yes, and because we can't grow food here, we are totally dependent on what is provided. I never considered myself "poor" and, instead, fall soundly in the "middle class" and I can tell you that in the last 6 months, my weekly food/household cleaning items bill for myself, a single person, has gone from $60 to $100 plus. If I buy fresh fruits and vegetables, it goes to $125. I now consider myself one of the "poor" working middle class.

All I know is we don't have as many fat people here in the Northwest US or do I see them in Oregon or California at the rate I see them in the Mid-west.

The quantity is more important here, especially if you combine snacks like potato chips or choclit with the healthy energy loaded megapizza

Healthy? Have you ever had a Hot 'N Ready pizza?

All I know is we don't have as many fat people here in the Northwest US or do I see them in Oregon or California at the rate I see them in the Mid-west.

It's cold up here. You guys have a lot more opportunity to do things outside than we do as we're inside trying not to get frostbite half of the year.

Yes, and because we can't grow food here, we are totally dependent on what is provided. I never considered myself "poor" and, instead, fall soundly in the "middle class" and I can tell you that in the last 6 months, my weekly food/household cleaning items bill for myself, a single person, has gone from $60 to $100 plus. If I buy fresh fruits and vegetables, it goes to $125. I now consider myself one of the "poor" working middle class.
Wow, and I thought my region was expensive. :( My weekly supermarket bill for a single adult household has gone from an average $50 to about $65-$70.

But then I buy very little in the way of processed or brand products. I generally start from raw in my cooking, only buy meat once or twice a month, and usually clean my house with baking soda and vinegar (plus bleach for the toilet and laundry detergent). The prices of prepared foods and most cleaning products are pretty shocking nowadays. I've had to cut them out of the budget, pretty much altogether.