NationStates Jolt Archive

So, for a few years now (atleast as far back as 2001) I have always been considering service in the US Marine Corps.

Now, I'm not even sure I would qualify, as I have had LASIK (something which I am told is frequently waived) and have a leg tattoo (though, it doesn't technically fit their definition of "leg sleve", it might be too big for them. I don't know for sure yet)

But this thread is because it has again become a viable option. I'm not employed at a job I enjoy. I may not get that job this coming year. Minimum enlistment is four years, which, as of now, I could easily do (I would get out when I was 26 or 27). I chose the Marines because they would be my biggest challenge.

So this thread is asking NSG...should Sarky consider the USMC? Why? Why not? Should I consider a different division of the military? Why? Why not?

Post your best arguments for and agaisnt service. Ask any questions you choose to clarify your answers.

Edit: by the way, I have a degree from a four year college

Marines have highest casualty rates, Airforce has lowest

So, for a few years now (atleast as far back as 2001) I have always been considering service in the US Marine Corps.

Now, I'm not even sure I would qualify, as I have had LASIK (something which I am told is frequently waived) and have a leg tattoo (though, it doesn't technically fit their definition of "leg sleve", it might be too big for them. I don't know for sure yet)

But this thread is because it has again become a viable option. I'm not employed at a job I enjoy. I may not get that job this coming year. Minimum enlistment is four years, which, as of now, I could easily do (I would get out when I was 26 or 27). I chose the Marines because they would be my biggest challenge.

So this thread is asking NSG...should Sarky consider the USMC? Why? Why not? Should I consider a different division of the military? Why? Why not?

Post your best arguments for and agaisnt service. Ask any questions you choose to clarify your answers.

Are you gonna wake up at 5 am and run 10 km?

Now, I'm not even sure I would qualify, as I have had LASIK (something which I am told is frequently waived)Having LASIK done before enlistment is automatic disqualification in the Navy, Army, and Marine Corps. Not sure about the Air Force, though I would assume its the same way.

Edit: One some occasions it is possible to obtain a waiver for PRK and LASIK before entering the military, it just makes it harder to enter.

Any military service would be challenging. But you might want to consider something that would give you a usable skill when you get out. The Marines do teach some skills, admittedly, but they are limited - in the Navy or the Air Force, you have many more options open to you.

The Marines do have neat uniforms, though.

Having LASIK done before enlistment is automatic disqualification in the Navy, Army, and Marine Corps. Not sure about the Air Force, though I would assume its the same way.

Why?

Do they let people in with glasses or contacts?

The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Also, LASIK is temporary

Why? Established policy says so. Hell if I know why they did it. I'm not head of the Defense for Health Affairs.

Do they let people in with glasses or contacts?Yes.

Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 visionFor aviation. You can join the Air Force with 20/400 or worse uncorrected as long as it is 20/50 corrected, or better.

Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Also, LASIK is temporary

The Airforce only accepts pilots with natural 20-20 vision. All that's required of non-pilots is that their vision be correctible to 20-20.

Thank you people who said I was wrong (honestly). My sources (namely my family in this case) is wrong

All that's required of non-pilots is that their vision be correctible to 20-20.It was 20/50 for officers, last time I checked. I'll go look again.

Kagetora;14372639']Thank you people who said I was wrong (honestly). My sources (namely my family in this case) is wrongUsually not a good source when dealing with things military.

Are you gonna wake up at 5 am and run 10 km?
Yes.

Kagetora;14372582']Marines have highest casualty rates, Airforce has lowestKnown. And okay with it.

Having LASIK done before enlistment is automatic disqualification in the Navy, Army, and Marine Corps. Not sure about the Air Force, though I would assume its the same way.

Edit: One some occasions it is possible to obtain a waiver for PRK and LASIK before entering the military, it just makes it harder to enter.
I;m pretty sure I can get in around the waiver.

Any military service would be challenging. But you might want to consider something that would give you a usable skill when you get out. The Marines do teach some skills, admittedly, but they are limited - in the Navy or the Air Force, you have many more options open to you.

The Marines do have neat uniforms, though.
That they do. And I'm not necessarily looking for "usable" skills. I have my college education for that
Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Also, LASIK is temporary
LASIK isn't temporary. Eyes naturally degrade.

It was 20/50 for officers, last time I checked. I'll go look again.

Usually not a good source when dealing with things military.

I recall my daughter saying that, when she went through her physical, it was 20/50, so I stand corrected.

Positives:
1. Earning money you don't necessarily need to spend to live
2. Getting in shape
3. Acquiring life skills and career experience
4. A lot of downtime (in some situations)
5. Job security (you have to be pretty bad to be kicked out)

Negatives:
1. May change your personality slightly
2. Leave behind loved ones
3. Death may result (just like on all those warning labels)

Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Also, LASIK is temporary

Actually, that's only true for people on flight duty. Ground personnel (technicians, Air Police) can have less.

Marines can be a good choice; I certainly never regretted it.

Pros: You will become as physically fit as you have ever been. By the time you leave basic, you will have attained a level of physical strength and prowess greater than anything you previously considered possible. You will also learn skills; while every Marine is a rifleman, you will learn the basics of electronics and mechanics, and if you take a specialty you will be well trained in that specialty.

Cons: The specialty area you want may very well not be available. You will go where the corps needs you to go, not where you want to go. As stated before, Marines have the highest casualty rates - this we open the door for everybody else, and are the force-in-being (the force that's ready to go on a moment's notice) in peacetime - or to put it another way, when it absolutely, positive has to be taken yesterday, they call in the Marines.

Also, no BS, Basic is ROUGH. Many, many people just can't take it. Army is not as rough, but still a tough course. Navy and Air Force get it easy.

However, there is no service more honorable, more distinctive or more rewarding than being a US Marine. You will see amazing things, perhaps do amazing things, in the company of your brothers and sisters around the world. You will be the first in, and the last out, and you will be part of a tradition going back to the founding of our nation. Semper Fidelis will be your motto, and you will live up to it. I say go for it.

The Army, in my family's case, has always been a good springboard to success. That's probably true of the Marines too. The difference is that, as far as I know, the Marines will choose your MOS for you, whereas in the Army you would have a choice. Also, the Army would reward you for your completed four-year degree by giving you an automatic increase in rank for every year completed. I have no clue whether the Marines do that or not. In either case, you'll have G.I. Bill and VA benefits when you get out, and day-to-day military life, as far as I've been told, isn't too stressful. My dad, in fact, describes his time in the Army as the most peaceful time of his life.

The Army, in my family's case, has always been a good springboard to success. That's probably true of the Marines too. The difference is that, as far as I know, the Marines will choose your MOS for you, whereas in the Army you would have a choice. Also, the Army would reward you for your completed four-year degree by giving you an automatic increase in rank for every year completed. I have no clue whether the Marines do that or not. In either case, you'll have G.I. Bill and VA benefits when you get out, and day-to-day military life, as far as I've been told, isn't too stressful. My dad, in fact, describes his time in the Army as the most peaceful time of his life.

Actually, you usually do have some choice in your Marine MOS - it depends on what they need at the time.

However, I servved in peacetime. Choices may be much more restricted in wartime.

Well, I believe the ultimate question you should ask yourself is this: how would it feel to know that you may be in a situation where you will have to kill another person for reasons that you may not even agree with? Or to know that you may cause the death of innocent people inadvertently?

Of course, if you are looking to be in more of a logistics position, these may not entirely be of concern to you, but it should be something not taken lightly. Just my two cents.

Since im a punk teen, im jus going to come out and b rude. DON'T JOIN THE MARINES. Tough economic situation sucks, but so does recievinv an AK round to the head. If your set on joining an armed force, go with either the air force, or the coast gaurd(although idk if the coastgaurd is worth it...) And if you feel like hurting people, so you want to join the marines, GO TO THE FECKING DOCTOR!!

I can't tell you much about the Marines, but I can tell you that boot camp will be extremely unpleasant. Everything about it is designed to screw with your head, in as many ways as possible.

If you can take that, you'll be good to go for boot camp at least. If you're like me and you couldn't...well, you'll be able to go home after awhile.

Either way, it's really up to you. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

I'd propose whichever way you go, get into the OCS program since you already have a degree. It'll likely include more years owed to the service but you'll end up with a lot more responsibility which will lead to greater job prospects once you get out (if you decide not to make it a career).

Edit: by the way, I have a degree from a four year college

Degree in what? It could earn you a commissioned officer's rank.
I dunno about US military, but in Italy:
the Navy looks for naval engineers, electronic engineers and politologists (diplomacy)
the Air Force looks for aircraft engineers, electronic engineers, computer programmers and physicists (traffic control system, satellite image analysis and research in meteorology)
the Army looks for all kind of engineers, translators, politologists and for finance experts (for the Guardia di Finanza)
the Carabinieri (military police) look for lawyers and all kind of engineers, and even for experts in arts history (for fighting art contraband).

Maybe you could put your degree to a better use than being a basical grunt - no disrespect meant for grunts, but some skills are better not wasted, even in the military.

Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Also, LASIK is temporary

The Airforce only accepts pilots with natural 20-20 vision. All that's required of non-pilots is that their vision be correctible to 20-20.

LASIK surgery is now acceptable for persons wanting to qualify for pilots. I know this because the memo is in the bulletin board in the hallway of my AFROTC detachment HQ. This extends to all branches of the US armed forces.

I may need LASIK in the future, and I already passed my AFOQT-both the required sections and the pilot/nav sections.

Also, it doesn't matter what degree you have, you'd be an officer (after OCS of course). Some career paths they're looking for certain degrees, but all you need is a degree.

Pros:

The Marine Mafia is a fact, jack. Unlike army, Navy, or Air Force, when you complete your term in the Corps, you'll have an automatic social network that can score you better paying jobs, faster promotions in the civilian sector, and the like (should you so choose to learn to use it.)

Cons:

The Marine corps can result in long-term physical problems (blown joints, mystery scars, medical issues they don't have names for) in peacetime, but we're not in peace-time. All military service comes with the disclaimer that death may result from this particular career choice-that's why we HAVE a Veteran's Administration, GI Bill, and Veteran's Preferences in some hiring (Boeing, for instance, or the Civil Service).

If you make it in, make it through, survive, and come out the other side intact, you'll be more than you are currently, or could likely achieve in the civilian world if you don't-not so much the money or the education bennies (sign up for all of 'em you can!!), but because you'll be someone who's done something those triathalon running bean-curd eaters just can't comprehend or match, Marines are Marines even after they're out of the service.

Nobody else has that.

Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Men, all this stuff you’ve heard about America not wanting to fight, wanting to stay out of the war, is a lot of horse dung. Americans traditionally love to fight. All real Americans love the sting of battle. When you were kids, you all admired the champion marble shooter, the fastest runner, the big league ball player, the toughest boxer. Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser. Americans play to win all the time. I wouldn’t give a hoot in hell for a man who lost and laughed. That’s why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. Because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.

Now, an Army is a team. It lives, eats, sleeps, fights as a team. This individuality stuff is a bunch of crap. The bilious bastards who wrote that stuff about individuality for the Saturday Evening Post don’t know anything more about real battle than they do about fornicating.

We have the finest food and equipment, the best spirit and the best men in the world. You know, by God I actually pity those poor bastards we’re going up against. By God, I do. We’re not just going to shoot the bastards, we’re going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We’re going to murder those lousy Hun bastards by the bushel.

Now, some of you boys, I know, are wondering whether or not you'll chicken out under fire. Don't worry about it. I can assure you that you will all do your duty. The Nazis are the enemy. Wade into them. Spill their blood. Shoot them in the belly. When you put your hand into a bunch of goo that a moment before was your best friend's face, you'll know what to do.

Now there’s another thing I want you to remember. I don’t want to get any messages saying that we are holding our position. We’re not holding anything. Let the Hun do that. We are advancing constantly and we’re not interested in holding onto anything except the enemy. We're going to hold onto him by the nose and we're going to kick him in the ass. We're going to kick the hell out of him all the time and we're gonna go through him like crap through a goose.

There’s one thing that you men will be able to say when you get back home. And you may thank God for it. Thirty years from now when you’re sitting around your fireside with your grandson on your knee and he asks you what did you do in the great World War II, you won’t have to say, "Well, I shoveled shit in Louisiana."

Alright now, you sons-of-bitches, you know how I feel. Oh, and I will be proud to lead you wonderful guys into battle – anytime, anywhere.

That’s all.

Now, I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country.

*cuts in in Patton's rant*
Pietro Micca did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pietro_Micca

That’s why Americans have never lost and will never lose a war. Because the very thought of losing is hateful to Americans.

1812 US invasion of Canada. And Vietnam.

If you don't mind killing people for no other reason than someone else telling you to, go right ahead. Soldiering might be the job for you.

*Snip.

What the fuck?

Anyway.. It sounds like it'd be fucking hard work, so you would probably need quite a bit of passion/willpower/etc.. If you have that passion, go for it.

1812 US invasion of Canada. And Vietnam.

Might I add Iraq, and Afghanistan?

What the fuck?

Looks like Patton's speech, from the movie, but I might be wrong.

Might I add Iraq, and Afghanistan?

They might still win...



...



...



;)

Now, I'm not even sure I would qualify, as I have had LASIK (something which I am told is frequently waived) and have a leg tattoo (though, it doesn't technically fit their definition of "leg sleve", it might be too big for them. I don't know for sure yet)


You could get a certificate if they reject you, saying "Unfit to kill for country due to Tattoo"......

Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Ah, that's only for pilots. All other positions, you pretty much have to be on the same vision standards as the other services.

1812 US invasion of Canada. And Vietnam.

I believe you're confusing the campaign with the war in the case of 1812.

I believe you're confusing the campaign with the war in the case of 1812.

I suppose a draw because the British were lazy technically doesn't count as a loss. Seriously, our asses were kicked hilariously bad. Britain couldn't have won, but any victory we had would necessarily be a Pyrrhic one.

I believe you're confusing the campaign with the war in the case of 1812.
Well, no, actually. The operations of war begun with US troops invading Canadian territory, and ended with status quo ante reinstated. Hence, the defending side (British Empire) won. On the worldwide scale, the US backed France in the Napoleonic wars (the first real world war) against Brits, Austria, Russia and Prussia... so, overall victory for the Brits' side.

if you want to join the marines, DO IT.

go down to the recruitment center now and find out if these things will disqualify you. why spend another day wondering about it?

Also, no BS, Basic is ROUGH. Many, many people just can't take it. Army is not as rough, but still a tough course.

Strange, I know three guys who went through both Army and Marine basic and said it was basically the same thing.

Degree in what? It could earn you a commissioned officer's rank.

With a 4 year degree he could go to OCS and get a commission, regardless of what the degree is in.

Maybe you could put your degree to a better use than being a basical grunt - no disrespect meant for grunts, but some skills are better not wasted, even in the military.

Meh, lots of enlisted guys have 4 year degrees. One of the specialists (senior private) in my platoon has a masters degree.

Anyway, don't be fooled by the Marine PR machine, the Marines aren't really any more "high speed" than Army combat units. If you're really looking for something hard you can get Ranger school in your initial Army contract, with a spot in the Ranger Regiment if you perform well enough. Also, you can enlist to go directly to Special Forces selection right after basic.

The odds of death are pretty low, and have more to do with your specialty than your branch of service.

There are high speed Air Force types who parachute into bad places and get killed - and there are Marines who sit in the supply room on board ship, and never see anything happen.

It's more dangerous to be a civilian young black male on the streets of Washington DC, or Prince George's County, Maryland, than it is to be a Marine of any specialty.

The odds of death are pretty low, and have more to do with your specialty than your branch of service.

There are high speed Air Force types who parachute into bad places and get killed - and there are Marines who sit in the supply room on board ship, and never see anything happen.

It's more dangerous to be a civilian young black male on the streets of Washington DC, or Prince George's County, Maryland, than it is to be a Marine of any specialty.

This. You wouldn't believe how often people seem shocked that I spent 2 years in Iraq and didn't get killed or hurt.

This. You wouldn't believe how often people seem shocked that I spent 2 years in Iraq and didn't get killed or hurt.

Considering that we're engaged in not one, but two counterinsurgencies, we're suffering remarkably low casualty and death rates. Historically low.

Compare them to the rates the US experienced in Vietnam, or the rates in Korea or WW II - and our "combat" losses are remarkably light.

Considering that we're engaged in not one, but two counterinsurgencies, we're suffering remarkably low casualty and death rates. Historically low.

Compare them to the rates the US experienced in Vietnam, or the rates in Korea or WW II - and our "combat" losses are remarkably light.

Which is precisely why it's so silly that people are surprised when I come back with all the same parts I left with.

Kagetora;14372619']The air-force only accepts those with natural 20-20 vision

Also, LASIK is temporary

thats not true you can only fly if you have 20-40 vision that can be corrected to 20-20 vision but there are many parts to the air force not just flying which dont have any vision qualifications at all.

Which is precisely why it's so silly that people are surprised when I come back with all the same parts I left with.

I've been there for both the First Gulf War and OIF, and I was in the infantry (Army), and came back with everything...

Friends of mine regularly have come and gone from Iraq and Afghanistan - all infantry - and none of them have been casualties.

I'm in a family full of Marine veterans. You're going to get your ass kicked and then after they do that and you're all "brothers" you go out to the front lines and get shot or blown up.

Also, Jarheads are jerkfaces 80% of the time when they finally get out, even if they were perfectly nice going in.

I'm in a family full of Marine veterans. You're going to get your ass kicked and then after they do that and you're all "brothers" you go out to the front lines and get shot or blown up.

Also, Jarheads are jerkfaces 80% of the time when they finally get out, even if they were perfectly nice going in.

Yeah, but it doesn't last. And these days we get plenty of help reacclimatizing to civilian life.

So, for a few years now (atleast as far back as 2001) I have always been considering service in the US Marine Corps.

So this thread is asking NSG...should Sarky consider the USMC? Why? Why not? Should I consider a different division of the military? Why? Why not?

Post your best arguments for and agaisnt service. Ask any questions you choose to clarify your answers.

Edit: by the way, I have a degree from a four year college
Let's forget the details for a bit and concentrate on the big things. I know how the Marine Corps used to work -- I retired in 1996 after 20 years. I was a Lieutenant Colonel when I retired.

Do you like physical exercise? I mean really like it? The USMC I retired from was convinced that you could win a war if you could just get everyone to run 3 miles in 18 minutes, then do eighty situps, and 20 pullups. But a lot of the work -- even in the air wing -- is hard and being in good shape is important.

Can you put up with irrelevant bullshit? Better yet, can you see your way past it and find the part that's valuable? That's important in any service because there's so much tradition that's unhampered by progress.

You have a degree -- Do you want to be an officer? That's the better path, but it's still a hard row to hoe. Lots of responsibility, lots of micro and mis management by superiors, lots of privilege compared to your troops. Lots of money for the uniforms -- I spent over $2000 and that was in 1976. You also used to spend a good deal of money on maintenance, but it seems like everyone wears cammies now, so that might not be as big a deal.

Like being away from home much? Get ready for it. Looks like just about any service carries that burden, though.

There's a lot of opportunity, but generally the USMC concentrates on combat arms -- in fact that's what your first MOS needs to be, if you become an officer. Not a lot of call for tank drivers, infantry commanders, etc, in the civilian world -- outside of Blackwater, anyway. Other services have far more occupations to choose from.

Good Luck and Semper Fi.

Yeah, but it doesn't last. And these days we get plenty of help reacclimatizing to civilian life.

Only if you had temporary jerkface. If you had underlying jerkface that you've been holding back for years, the Marines will seek it out and exploit it and it won't go back into your jerkface hiding place and your filter is forever broken.

Or I have about 32 Marines in my immediate family and they piss me off. :p

I'm in a family full of Marine veterans. You're going to get your ass kicked and then after they do that and you're all "brothers" you go out to the front lines and get shot or blown up.

Also, Jarheads are jerkfaces 80% of the time when they finally get out, even if they were perfectly nice going in.
Sorry for your situation, but I don't think it represents the majority of us Marine vets.

Well, no, actually. The operations of war begun with US troops invading Canadian territory, and ended with status quo ante reinstated. Hence, the defending side (British Empire) won. On the worldwide scale, the US backed France in the Napoleonic wars (the first real world war) against Brits, Austria, Russia and Prussia... so, overall victory for the Brits' side.

The American War of 1812 is not a part of the greater Napoleonic Wars, though. There was no alliance between states, and while concurrent, was unrelated in any means other than the fact that the US sought to use the fact that Britain was tied down on the Continent to limit the forces that could be readily deployed to North America. The US did not fight Austria, Russia or Prussia on land or on the seas, and war was not declared between those states and the US. It's fairly clear that the North American war was a separate conflict from the European wars.

Except the goals of the United States during that war did not include the annexation of Canada, nor was it any other form of territorial aggrandizement. In order, the goals were: Eliminate the ability of Tecumseh's confederation to operate out of Canada using British arms. Force Britain to permit the US to trade with France. Force Britain to end the practice of impressment.

Issues pertaining to rights of the seas were resolved as a result of the defeat of Napoleon, and are incidental and irrelevant. Tecumseh's confederation was broken at the Battle of the Thames when Tecumseh himself was killed, so that goal was achieved. The territorial status quo ante bellum was maintained (which it probably would have been anyways), but the primary goal of the frontier warhawks was accomplished.

But, I concur with Brown in that the goal of 1812 for the US was not to annex Canada.

Sorry for your situation, but I don't think it represents the majority of us Marine vets.

I would say the majority of the ones I know. I think you misunderstand what I mean by jerkface. It's not entirely derogatory, in fact it's often useful, like if I need someone to intimidate my utility company or someone to make my neighbors leave me alone.

Sorry for your situation, but I don't think it represents the majority of us Marine vets.

Not sure you're right there. Being an officer, you probably didn't get as much of it; as an NCO, it was in my face every day. We have some pretty nasty types in the Corps, and some of 'em run a little wild after they get out.

Meh, just play COD4 instead.

A whole lot less hassle.

join the Infantry we are nicer people who have bacon (then again join the national guard to see if you like it first >.>)

think about it: what kind of people enlist for the marines? fucking busy bodies!

If you don't mind killing people for no other reason than someone else telling you to, go right ahead.

getting shot at might be a good reason.

Jarheads are jerkfaces 80% of the time when they finally get out, even if they were perfectly nice going in.

latest orders I got where to shoot USMC on sight

I was a Lieutenant Colonel when I retired.


ah, handing out your rank (and a high one even if former) online is still a no-no iirc

*is handed a gift box full of delicious sausage with your picture on the bottom*

A whole lot less hassle.

pfft that games well hard

getting shot at might be a good reason.

I like that circular logic... you become a soldier to shoot at people who shoot at you because you are a soldier who shoots at them....

pfft that games well hard
Aye, but you can sit in a comfy chair while killing people in a morally dubious conflict, rather than having to physically do it.

Aye, but you can sit in a comfy chair while killing people in a morally dubious conflict, rather than having to physically do it.

Reality is more fun.

Reality is more fun.
I take my reality without the guns and the running and the shaven men screaming at you, thank you.

you become a soldier to shoot at people

not really I just have allot of fun *shrug*

who shoot at you because you are a soldier

nah usually its because I'm an infidel or some such

Aye, but you can sit in a comfy chair while killing people in a morally dubious conflict, rather than having to physically do it.

you will be amazed at the camping chairs they have these days *nods*

I take my reality without the guns and the running and the shaven men screaming at you, thank you.

oh don't be so boring :p

I like that circular logic... you become a soldier to shoot at people who shoot at you because you are a soldier who shoots at them....

There are hundreds of other reasons to become a soldier, other than just shooting someone.

nah usually its because I'm an infidel or some such

Isn't it odd that that never happened to most infidels on this planet?

There are hundreds of other reasons to become a soldier, other than just shooting someone.

And yet, people who don't want to shoot others rarely become soldiers...

And yet, people who don't want to shoot others rarely become soldiers...

Are you saying that only people who have some bloodthirsty urge to kill someone become soldiers? Are you honestly, seriously saying that?

oh don't be so boring :p
I also enjoy the regular company of women, and pubs.

But that's my boring existence... :P

Isn't it odd that that never happened to most infidels on this planet?

I wonder why? (though you would be surprise at what passes for an infidel these days)

I also enjoy the regular company of women, and pubs.

pfft I'm TA thats pretty much what I'm paid for >.>

pfft I'm TA thats pretty much what I'm paid for >.>
Ahhh yes, I've met some of your TA compatriots before in pubs.

Rather... brusque fellows.

Reality is more fun.

The Army is like a FPS with better graphics.
-FPS Doug


But more seriously, with a Bachelor's Degree you can likely get into OCS rather easily. Even if you don't want to go that route, enlisting in the Army with a Bachelor's means you get promoted to E-4 upon graduation from AIT (Basic Training). That's a pay raise of a few hundred bucks a month. I don;t know if the other services offer similar promotions.

I looked into all this pretty heavily when I graduated, but severe allergies made me reconsider.

If you want to join up, don't let us Leftist Euro-w*nkers stop you and all that. I'd join the proper navy, mind. Safe as houses.

Negatives:

Bullying
Really not as elite as its cracked up to be
Higher chance of death than regular army

Negatives:

Bullying
Really not as elite as its cracked up to be
High chance of death

It's actually not a "high chance of death".

Being a young black male civilian in Washington DC is far more dangerous.

Not sure you're right there. Being an officer, you probably didn't get as much of it; as an NCO, it was in my face every day. We have some pretty nasty types in the Corps, and some of 'em run a little wild after they get out.
Okay. I was in the air wing and I think we had a different sort of relationship with our enlisted. In fact, I think the enlisted Marines that made it to the wing had to be a lot different than the ones that made it to the infantry.

Certainly it didn't benefit any of them to be belligerent or nasty to me or to the NCOs. Although, I did have a Sgt Major at my last command who lamented the days he could take a guy out behind the hangar and straighten him out.

Okay. I was in the air wing...
As in flying planes, or 'just' jumping out of them?

As in flying planes, or 'just' jumping out of them?

He flew ground attack aircraft.

Are you saying that only people who have some bloodthirsty urge to kill someone become soldiers? Are you honestly, seriously saying that?

not all. Just, you know, most

not all. Just, you know, most

90 percent of people in the Army are not in combat arms specialties.

They're doing paperwork, laundry, etc.

How does that square with your assertion?

not all. Just, you know, most

Well, as you were saying earlier in another thread:

"HUUUR DUUUR Back it the fuck up!"

He flew ground attack aircraft.
Huh. I assumed the USMC would be supported by Navy aircraft.

Anyhoo, thanks for the info.

90 percent of people in the Army are not in combat arms specialties.

They're doing paperwork, laundry, etc.

How does that square with your assertion?

"Killing Muslims is better than sex."

"Killing Muslims is better than sex."

I was in combat arms. My point still stands.

Well, as you were saying earlier in another thread:

"HUUUR DUUUR Back it the fuck up!"

oh come now, one would hope a little hyperboli would be self evident. But as a general point, one can hardly imagine any argument that should be taken seriously that posits that amongst people who willingly volunteer themselves to go into combat and kill people there is not a significant number of those who do so because they want to get into combat and kill people.

oh come now, one would hope a little hyperboli would be self evident. But as a general point, one can hardly imagine any argument that should be taken seriously that posits that amongst people who willingly volunteer themselves to go into combat and kill people there is not a significant number of those who do so because they want to get into combat and kill people.

Like I said, 90 percent of the soldiers in the Army are not in combat arms.

oh come now, one would hope a little hyperboli would be self evident.

On NSG, you can never be too sure.


But as a general point, one can hardly imagine any argument that should be taken seriously that posits that amongst people who willingly volunteer themselves to go into combat and kill people there is not a significant number of those who do so because they want to get into combat and kill people.

There may be a number, but I see no reason to assume it's a significant one at that. And my personal experience further supports this for me. And lets be here, I'm talking about someone who specifically wants to kill someone, not someone who simply enjoys military combat and tactics.

Huh. I assumed the USMC would be supported by Navy aircraft.

Anyhoo, thanks for the info.
We are sort of joined at the hip, so to speak. We fly naval aircraft, do the same training and are designated as Naval Aviators. Missions vary a little, but similar planes do similar missions. My Intruder was a deep strike, close air support, War-at-Sea, SEAD, tanking, and banner towing workhorse. We could even carry Sidewinders, but I'd never call us a fighter aircraft.

The concept of the Marine Corps is to be self-sufficient. We deploy as a air-ground-logistics unit in sizes that support the operation. The buzzword is 'joint' nowadays, so I'm not sure whether we still maintain that structure as religiously as we did in my day.

We are sort of joined at the hip, so to speak. We fly naval aircraft, do the same training and are designated as Naval Aviators. Missions vary a little, but similar planes do similar missions. My Intruder was a deep strike, close air support, War-at-Sea, SEAD, tanking, and banner towing workhorse. We could even carry Sidewinders, but I'd never call us a fighter aircraft.
But you were still a Marine, not a Navy airman?

But you were still a Marine, not a Navy airman?

Nope, he was a Marine. We have our own air wing, mostly (but not solely) designed for ground support. Very good people who you want on your side when the situation turns FUBAR.

I spent most of my time in on Embassy Detail. I never needed their help...but there were times I was very glad to hear they were a quick radio call away.

No other branch gets as much respect.
Most importantly is the fact that the Marines I know all seem to pull some top shelf kitty:wink:

I was in combat arms. My point still stands.

Sorry, don't have the exact quote of when you claimed that the majority of the military agreed with your views.

Sorry, don't have the exact quote of when you claimed that the majority of the military agreed with your views.

My point is that 90 percent of the people in the military are not in combat arms - that is, not in a job that would involve killing anyone.

Cooks, clerks, laundry, etc.

Someone was trying to say that the majority of people who join are in it to kill someone - which doesn't seem to correlate with the types of jobs that people have in the Army.

Combat arms are the only people who go out and kill - the rest have little or no chance to do so.

So I'm saying that 90 percent didn't join for that reason.

But you were still a Marine, not a Navy airman?
Nope, closest I ever came to being a squid was when I wore a VA-42 patch as an instructor.

Here, the Marines are an equal branch with the Navy, Air Force, and Army at the JCS, but we're subordinate to the CNO.

How in the name of NS did I miss this thread? Anyways, as a US Marine, I can safely tell you that you're probably fine. And yes, the USMC is technically subordinate to the Navy. I'm aboard a Navy ship right now and I am constantly reminded of this. But we're still better than EVERYONE else. ;)

But we're still better than EVERYONE else. ;)

Except the SAS, SBS, Royal Marines, Spetznaz, French Foreign Legion etc etc.

Except the SAS, SBS, Royal Marines, Spetznaz, French Foreign Legion etc etc.

Hey,hey, hey, I was just kidding, and I only meant the US. Royal Marines are debatable, though. Spetznaz, I might yet serve in someday.

Hey,hey, hey, I was just kidding, and I only meant the US. Royal Marines are debatable, though. Spetznaz, I might yet serve in someday.

Well, seeing as a friend of my dad failed British Army training, and passed USMC, and the Royal Marines being much harder to get into then the regular army, I think yes.

Spetznaz, I might yet serve in someday.

Cool. Have fun shooting Chechen babies.

Cool. Have fun shooting Chechen babies.

I get more bipolar every year. I hope not, though...

My point is that 90 percent of the people in the military are not in combat arms - that is, not in a job that would involve killing anyone.

Cooks, clerks, laundry, etc.

Someone was trying to say that the majority of people who join are in it to kill someone - which doesn't seem to correlate with the types of jobs that people have in the Army.

Combat arms are the only people who go out and kill - the rest have little or no chance to do so.

So I'm saying that 90 percent didn't join for that reason.
Those cooks can serve some pretty deadly meals... Doesn't the Army contract most of that stuff out, now?

Those cooks can serve some pretty deadly meals... Doesn't the Army contract most of that stuff out, now?

Unless you're in the field. If you're at a base of any kind, there are contractors.

Still, 90% of people aren't combat arms, which is something that always used to surprise me.

Hey,hey, hey, I was just kidding, and I only meant the US.

Oh yeah. The rest of your special forces are an embarassment. Marines top them anyday.

Well, seeing as a friend of my dad failed British Army training, and passed USMC, and the Royal Marines being much harder to get into then the regular army, I think yes.

The training is progressive. He must have been incredibly out of shape to begin with. How far through training did he get?

The training is progressive. He must have been incredibly out of shape to begin with. How far through training did he get?

He almost finished it, apparently, but he completed the marine stuff.

He almost finished it, apparently, but he completed the marine stuff.

Well, maybe the training whipped him into shape just enough for the USMC minimum, Hmmm?

Load of USMC went into the SBS bar thinking there the dogs bollocks and got the shit kicked out of them, same thing happend on a French frigate.

Unless you're in the field. If you're at a base of any kind, there are contractors.

Still, 90% of people aren't combat arms, which is something that always used to surprise me.
I always thought it was more like two-thirds, but the combat arms people need lots of support.

Load of USMC went into the SBS bar thinking there the dogs bollocks and got the shit kicked out of them, same thing happend on a French frigate.

Care for a one on one fight, though?

Oh yeah. The rest of your special forces are an embarassment. Marines top them anyday.
On what grounds would you say that? That US special forces are an embarassment, that is.

Marines aren't special forces, though. Forced Recon is, but not Marines in general.

Care for a one on one fight, though? I wouldn’t fight them, but I'm not a fighting fit soldier. Also the American army in general, not just the USMC, have a poor reputation for there drinking ability. Or it could just be that British soldiers, sailors etc are hardcore drinkers and the Americans are normal.

On what grounds would you say that? That US special forces are an embarassment, that is.

Marines aren't special forces, though. Forced Recon is, but not Marines in general.

Yeah, I originally chose to ignore the misguided comment you brought up, but no. I know a couple of Forced Recon guys, and they're pretty hard.

The biggest downfall would be your personality would likely change. I've had buddies that went off who were good humored dudes, and now they are either pricks or they don't socialize much. I know it doesn't happen to all, or even many, but if that possibility is there, I would personally avoid it.

That being said, I too had considered being a Marine at one point. I changed my mind once I realized that I am more likely to help the world if I am alive, able to make my own decisions, than if I am in the Corps.

Well, seeing as a friend of my dad failed British Army training, and passed USMC, and the Royal Marines being much harder to get into then the regular army, I think yes.
How did he meet the USMC citizenship requirements? There are several ways, but I see this story so many times, I find it hard to believe.

I wouldn’t fight them, but I'm not a fighting fit soldier. Also the American army in general, not just the USMC, have a poor reputation for there drinking ability. Or it could just be that British soldiers, sailors etc are hardcore drinkers and the Americans are normal.

Why does it always come down to drinking? As much as I enjoy it, when did it become a requirement? Bah.

How did he meet the USMC citizenship requirements? There are several ways, but I see this story so many times, I find it hard to believe.

Lots of people join FOR citizenship. Lots of Mexicans here.

Why does it always come down to drinking? As much as I enjoy it, when did it become a requirement? Bah. Well the Americans always seem to be bigging themselves up, so anything we can bring them back down for is relished :p

The biggest downfall would be your personality would likely change. I've had buddies that went off who were good humored dudes, and now they are either pricks or they don't socialize much. I know it doesn't happen to all, or even many, but if that possibility is there, I would personally avoid it.

That being said, I too had considered being a Marine at one point. I changed my mind once I realized that I am more likely to help the world if I am alive, able to make my own decisions, than if I am in the Corps.

I joined because I couldn't stomach the thought of school for 5 more minutes, and I didn't want to be a loser... So tell me, was I wrong?

Well the Americans always seem to be bigging themselves up, so anything we can bring them back down for is relished :p

Meh, we get it. Listen, 300 million fat people aren't hard to top.

Lots of people join FOR citizenship. Lots of Mexicans here.
But they have to be permanent residents to begin with, right?

But they have to be permanent residents to begin with, right?

Permanent Resident doesn't nescessarily imply citizenship. The military is usually willing to bend the rules as long as you can hack basic and are sufficiently intelligent.

The marines are great, but they generally don't teach you a career that you can carry into civilian life, with the exception of being a contract killer. My choice would be the Coast Guard, because search and rescue is very similar to combat, and the skills you learn are great for recreation and can even give you a job. My dream has always been to run a small time fishing guide service out on the ocean when I retire. Either way, I am glad that you want to serve your country.

The marines are great, but they generally don't teach you a career that you can carry into civilian life, with the exception of being a contract killer. My choice would be the Coast Guard, because search and rescue is very similar to combat, and the skills you learn are great for recreation and can even give you a job. My dream has always been to run a small time fishing guide service out on the ocean when I retire. Either way, I am glad that you want to serve your country.

IF I leave the Military, I'm considering a Career as an officer in the SC DNR(Department of Natural Resources). I would consider a career as a contract killer though... ;)

if you want to join the marines, DO IT.

go down to the recruitment center now and find out if these things will disqualify you. why spend another day wondering about it?
Something I really need to do. I am not particularly interested in the other aspects of the armed forces for several reasons...so it's sort of marines or bust.
Let's forget the details for a bit and concentrate on the big things. I know how the Marine Corps used to work -- I retired in 1996 after 20 years. I was a Lieutenant Colonel when I retired.

Do you like physical exercise? I mean really like it? The USMC I retired from was convinced that you could win a war if you could just get everyone to run 3 miles in 18 minutes, then do eighty situps, and 20 pullups. But a lot of the work -- even in the air wing -- is hard and being in good shape is important.I'm actually kinda looking forward to it...

Can you put up with irrelevant bullshit? Better yet, can you see your way past it and find the part that's valuable? That's important in any service because there's so much tradition that's unhampered by progress.Like a champ.

You have a degree -- Do you want to be an officer? That's the better path, but it's still a hard row to hoe. Lots of responsibility, lots of micro and mis management by superiors, lots of privilege compared to your troops. Lots of money for the uniforms -- I spent over $2000 and that was in 1976. You also used to spend a good deal of money on maintenance, but it seems like everyone wears cammies now, so that might not be as big a deal.Something I am considering, but that's after I decide if USMC is for me...I may hit you up to ask you some questions about that.

Like being away from home much? Get ready for it. Looks like just about any service carries that burden, though.Travel can be good.

There's a lot of opportunity, but generally the USMC concentrates on combat arms -- in fact that's what your first MOS needs to be, if you become an officer. Not a lot of call for tank drivers, infantry commanders, etc, in the civilian world -- outside of Blackwater, anyway. Other services have far more occupations to choose from.

Good Luck and Semper Fi.
Well, I'm not so much doing this for job training. I have an English ed degree, and am a certified teacher in MA.


The biggest downfall would be your personality would likely change. I've had buddies that went off who were good humored dudes, and now they are either pricks or they don't socialize much. I know it doesn't happen to all, or even many, but if that possibility is there, I would personally avoid it.

That being said, I too had considered being a Marine at one point. I changed my mind once I realized that I am more likely to help the world if I am alive, able to make my own decisions, than if I am in the Corps.I wouldn't really mind some aspects changing. Even the entire thing...

The marines are great, but they generally don't teach you a career that you can carry into civilian life, with the exception of being a contract killer. My choice would be the Coast Guard, because search and rescue is very similar to combat, and the skills you learn are great for recreation and can even give you a job. My dream has always been to run a small time fishing guide service out on the ocean when I retire. Either way, I am glad that you want to serve your country.Again, the career aspect is set already, so that isn't a concern.



Thanks to all you guys...definatly given me some stuff to think about.

Well if you don't mind all that crap, then you're good. One more thing, though. Do you live east or west of the Mississippi? This will determine whether you go to Paris Island or San Diego. If East, then I got Shome Shtuff to Shay.

I joined because I couldn't stomach the thought of school for 5 more minutes, and I didn't want to be a loser... So tell me, was I wrong?

What you did was wrong for me, and many others. I would almost argue that in some aspects being part of the military might disqualify a person as being a proactive part of society seeing as many veterans are homeless, and many more come back with disorders.

I could argue that, but I won't. I don't want to disrespect someone who has served, having had most of my family serve themselves. :)

What you did was wrong for me, and many others. I would almost argue that in some aspects being part of the military might disqualify a person as being a proactive part of society seeing as many veterans are homeless, and many more come back with disorders.

I could argue that, but I won't. I don't want to disrespect someone who has served, having had most of my family serve themselves. :)

I can see where you would want to argue that, and I commend you for your restraint.

Permanent Resident doesn't nescessarily imply citizenship. The military is usually willing to bend the rules as long as you can hack basic and are sufficiently intelligent.
No, but I thought one of the legal requirements for enlistment was to have permanent residence status. I know recruiters will do what they can -- I was able to promote one of my favorite Marines to Staff Sergeant before he left on recruiting duty. Next time I heard from him, he was a Corporal. It turns out that he was just a little too good at recruiting. Finally, it caught up with him and he got busted back down.

No, but I thought one of the legal requirements for enlistment was to have permanent residence status. I know recruiters will do what they can -- I was able to promote one of my favorite Marines to Staff Sergeant before he left on recruiting duty. Next time I heard from him, he was a Corporal. It turns out that he was just a little too good at recruiting. Finally, it caught up with him and he got busted back down.

Not every body follows the rules. A quarter of our battalion is made up of immigrants.

Unless you're in the field. If you're at a base of any kind, there are contractors.

And nowadays they'll probably mermite it out to you when you are in the field.

And nowadays they'll probably mermite it out to you when you are in the field.

With people like Blackwater, they'll contract out the combat work, too.

And yet, people who don't want to shoot others rarely become soldiers...I want to join because I don't have the ability to pay for a gyro pilot license or college. But I'm obviously in it to blow shit up and shoot people, right?

LASIK surgery is now acceptable for persons wanting to qualify for pilots. I know this because the memo is in the bulletin board in the hallway of my AFROTC detachment HQ. This extends to all branches of the US armed forces.

I may need LASIK in the future, and I already passed my AFOQT-both the required sections and the pilot/nav sections.

Also, it doesn't matter what degree you have, you'd be an officer (after OCS of course). Some career paths they're looking for certain degrees, but all you need is a degree.Dude, you just made my day. :)

I want to join because I don't have the ability to pay for a gyro pilot license or college. But I'm obviously in it to blow shit up and shoot people, right?

That's why my 1st MOS was artillery.

With people like Blackwater, they'll contract out the combat work, too.

A lot of the convoys in my unit's AOR during my last deployment were guarded by private security.

That's why my 1st MOS was artillery.My JROTC teachers are both 30+ year vets from the Army, and they're both field artillery to the core. :p

One's a CW5 (When they still had Warrants for artillery.) and the other is a CSM.

A lot of the convoys in my unit's AOR during my last deployment were guarded by private security.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. The future IS Metal Gears Solid 4, isn't it?

My JROTC teachers are both 30+ year vets from the Army, and they're both field artillery to the core. :p

One's a CW5 (When they still had Warrants for artillery.) and the other is a CSM.

I love Artillery guys. I'm going back if I decide to stay after this tour.

I happily enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1986 as an infantryman, and served My God, My Country, and My Corps faithfully for 20 years. I loved every other minute of my service. Every day was something new and exciting. I have seen the world and met so many different people and cultures that I wouldn't even begin to try to describe the amazing sights and people. The men and women that I served with and commanded are a special breed and will forever be in my heart, as are ALL Marines. Marines share a kinship that other services do not. The Marine Corps is an amazingly close knit community. We are ALWAYS Marines from the day we graduated from boot till the day we die, and go to heavens gate to stand watch over the pearly gates. I served in more than a few combat zones, and many more humanitarian missions. I have lost men and saved many people that were unable to save themselves. I am very proud of being a Marine.

Not everyone agrees that there should even be a military or that what the US Military does is right or just, and that is ok, they are allowed to have their own set of beliefs. As a Marine it is my job to ENSURE that you and every person has the right and freedom to express those beliefs as you feel fit. I'm not going to tell you that you should join the Marine Corps. That is a decision that each and every person has to think long and hard about.

Just remember: We don't promise you a rose garden.

Semper Fidelis

I love Artillery guys. I'm going back if I decide to stay after this tour.Heh, I just want to learn to fly.

I happily enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1986 as an infantryman, and served My God, My Country, and My Corps faithfully for 20 years. I loved every other minute of my service. Every day was something new and exciting. I have seen the world and met so many different people and cultures that I wouldn't even begin to try to describe the amazing sights and people. The men and women that I served with and commanded are a special breed and will forever be in my heart, as are ALL Marines. Marines share a kinship that other services do not. The Marine Corps is an amazingly close knit community. We are ALWAYS Marines from the day we graduated from boot till the day we die, and go to heavens gate to stand watch over the pearly gates. I served in more than a few combat zones, and many more humanitarian missions. I have lost men and saved many people that were unable to save themselves. I am very proud of being a Marine.

Not everyone agrees that there should even be a military or that what the US Military does is right or just, and that is ok, they are allowed to have their own set of beliefs. As a Marine it is my job to ENSURE that you and every person has the right and freedom to express those beliefs as you feel fit. I'm not going to tell you that you should join the Marine Corps. That is a decision that each and every person has to think long and hard about.

Just remember: We don't promise you a rose garden.

Semper Fidelis

Amen, brother. Semper Fi.

So, for a few years now (atleast as far back as 2001) I have always been considering service in the US Marine Corps.

Now, I'm not even sure I would qualify, as I have had LASIK (something which I am told is frequently waived) and have a leg tattoo (though, it doesn't technically fit their definition of "leg sleve", it might be too big for them. I don't know for sure yet)

But this thread is because it has again become a viable option. I'm not employed at a job I enjoy. I may not get that job this coming year. Minimum enlistment is four years, which, as of now, I could easily do (I would get out when I was 26 or 27). I chose the Marines because they would be my biggest challenge.

So this thread is asking NSG...should Sarky consider the USMC? Why? Why not? Should I consider a different division of the military? Why? Why not?

Post your best arguments for and agaisnt service. Ask any questions you choose to clarify your answers.

Edit: by the way, I have a degree from a four year college

With luck, you'll end up in Germany or Japan or something. (Do we still have bases in Germany?) In all honesty, though, expect to be in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Do you have any special skills related to your degree? You could, for example, get an engineer job.

With luck, you'll end up in Germany or Japan or something. (Do we still have bases in Germany?) In all honesty, though, expect to be in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Do you have any special skills related to your degree? You could, for example, get an engineer job.

I'm goin' to Japan, and I've been to Germany. As well as Iraq and Afghanistan. You and your college degree. I have ONE CLASS left to get mine, and I'm already under way shipping out. Just remember that Iraq and Afghanistan aren't death sentences.

Since im a punk teen, im jus going to come out and b rude. DON'T JOIN THE MARINES. Tough economic situation sucks, but so does recievinv an AK round to the head. If your set on joining an armed force, go with either the air force, or the coast gaurd(although idk if the coastgaurd is worth it...) And if you feel like hurting people, so you want to join the marines, GO TO THE FECKING DOCTOR!!
You are probably a troll but yet I'm going to bite, shut the fuck up. Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about so go back and vandalize more street signs and mug old ladies with your chav friends.

You are probably a troll but yet I'm going to bite, shut the fuck up. Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about so go back and vandalize more street signs and mug old ladies with your chav friends.

I bet he's a on heroin and just mad because the USMC doesn't take druggies.

Combat arms are the only people who go out and kill - the rest have little or no chance to do so.


I'm sorry, but I have to challenge that. I'm a National Guardsmen stationed at an RSP until June, when I ship for Benning, and one of the first things that our cadre told us was that no matter what your MOS might be, you can still find yourself in the middle of the shit. Combat arm or not.
Especially MPs, who aren't a combat arm but rather a combat support arm. Also the truck drivers who have to drive through places they might get ambushed. According to my First Sergeant, cooks are always getting sentry duty, and when Haji starts to put mortar rounds inside the compound, it doesn't matter if you're an 11B or a QM spoon-counter (his words), you all grab your rifle and go to fight.

To the OP, definitely go for it. I would advise Army (either regular, reserve, or National Guard) just because of the enlistment bonus, but it really doesn't matter. Personally, I love it, and either way you get GI Bill and an amazing experience.

I'm sorry, but I have to challenge that. I'm a National Guardsmen stationed at an RSP until June, when I ship for Benning, and one of the first things that our cadre told us was that no matter what your MOS might be, you can still find yourself in the middle of the shit. Combat arm or not.
Especially MPs, who aren't a combat arm but rather a combat support arm. Also the truck drivers who have to drive through places they might get ambushed. According to my First Sergeant, cooks are always getting sentry duty, and when Haji starts to put mortar rounds inside the compound, it doesn't matter if you're an 11B or a QM spoon-counter (his words), you all grab your rifle and go to fight.

To the OP, definitely go for it. I would advise Army (either regular, reserve, or National Guard) just because of the enlistment bonus, but it really doesn't matter. Personally, I love it, and either way you get GI Bill and an amazing experience.

Yepper. I was MP for a while, and guess what? BANG, right in the middle of shit in Iraq. I've finished 3 3/4 years of school on the GI bill, and managed squease a whole $18,500 enlistment bonus, which I proceeded to invest in stocks...

Well if you don't mind all that crap, then you're good. One more thing, though. Do you live east or west of the Mississippi? This will determine whether you go to Paris Island or San Diego. If East, then I got Shome Shtuff to Shay.
I'd be at Parris Island

Join the Space Marines.

Looks like Patton's speech, from the movie, but I might be wrong.

Okay, good. I was going to say...

Go guard first. It will give you a taste of the military and you can decide after your initial enlistment whether or not you like it. The guard has a bad rep, and doesn't have the same image as the USMC and such, but I have met some of the most honorable, intelligent, and physically fit people I have ever known in the Guard. The GI bill is great (even though you already have a degree, your student loans, if any, can be reimbursed) and the enlistment bonuses are fat.

Also, go artillery, because its fucking awesome.

Strange how Verdigroth didn't put in his 2 cents.

Tonight, at least.

My only problem on with having been in the USMC is that the Army wouldn't let us play in all the nifty sandboxes. I wasn't allowed in Afghanistan because the Army wouldn't let us in...until all their helicopters were grounded. And in Iraq we couldn't fire back because the Air Force and Foreign Armies wouldn't let us play afraid we might shoot them in the excitement. Well we weren't slotted into the fields of fire. So we weren't allowed to shoot the sand ninjas unless they made it through everyone else. Course I was in the air wing then.

Erp, spoke too soon.

So, for a few years now (atleast as far back as 2001) I have always been considering service in the US Marine Corps.

Now, I'm not even sure I would qualify, as I have had LASIK (something which I am told is frequently waived) and have a leg tattoo (though, it doesn't technically fit their definition of "leg sleve", it might be too big for them. I don't know for sure yet)

But this thread is because it has again become a viable option. I'm not employed at a job I enjoy. I may not get that job this coming year. Minimum enlistment is four years, which, as of now, I could easily do (I would get out when I was 26 or 27). I chose the Marines because they would be my biggest challenge.

So this thread is asking NSG...should Sarky consider the USMC? Why? Why not? Should I consider a different division of the military? Why? Why not?

Post your best arguments for and agaisnt service. Ask any questions you choose to clarify your answers.

Edit: by the way, I have a degree from a four year college

on laisk. the military has no way to tell if you've had that procedure done. Do not tell them and you do not have to worry about a waiver.
As for the tattoo. If it is not gang related or racist and doesn't show in the dress uniform (long sleeves and pants) at least in the army your okay. now they will look at your tattoo and look through a big book of gang and racist organization tats.

as for arguments for and against the service. that's a personal matter.

the trick is each individual service.
assuming you want to join the military.

Airforce. Benefit: least likely to be shot at. nicest living facilities.
drawback: slowest promotion.

Navy. Benefit. 2nd least likely to be shot at. largest variety of foreign countries(tied with marines).
nuclear program.
Drawback: 2nd slowest promotion. and the nuclear program doesn't have the civilian outlet it was hoped for 20 years ago. after 3 mile island and the fall of oil prices in the 80's we didn't end up like France (80% of electricity is nuclear). crappiest sleeping arrangements(tied with marines)

Marines: benefit fucking hard core. largest variety of foreign countries(tied with navy)
Draw back most likely to be shot at. Crappiest sleeping arrangements(tied with navy)

Army. Benefit: can pick specific job (other can only pick field aka communications Vs picking satellite communications). fastest promotion time(seriously E-7 in 7 years is not uncommon). Easiest to become a pilot(army allows pilot via warrant officer others require commissioned officer).
Drawback: all middle ground compared to the other services.



just my take on things.

Are you saying that only people who have some bloodthirsty urge to kill someone become soldiers? Are you honestly, seriously saying that?

Nope.
I'm saying that anybody who knows that he/she isn't willing to kill another human being for no other reason than being told to probably shouldn't be in any form of military.

I want to join because I don't have the ability to pay for a gyro pilot license or college. But I'm obviously in it to blow shit up and shoot people, right?

Well, if you've got a serious problem with killing people, joining a military operation just to get your education financed is quite dishonest, isn't it?

Go guard first. It will give you a taste of the military and you can decide after your initial enlistment whether or not you like it. The guard has a bad rep, and doesn't have the same image as the USMC and such, but I have met some of the most honorable, intelligent, and physically fit people I have ever known in the Guard. The GI bill is great (even though you already have a degree, your student loans, if any, can be reimbursed) and the enlistment bonuses are fat.

Also, go cavalry, because its fucking awesome.

Fixed.

I happily enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1986 as an infantryman, and served My God, My Country, and My Corps faithfully for 20 years.

The bolded one is a notion I always like to challenge.

Thou shalt not kill, it is written. And Jesus added some more.

While I'm sure that Rhalellan served his country and his corps faithfully, I wonder how can he say he served his god, too, since he was an infantryman, and not a military chaplain.

If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training... you will be a weapon, you will be a minister of death, praying for war. But until that day you are pukes! You're the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human fucking beings! You are nothing but unorganized grabasstic pieces of amphibian shit! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard, but I am fair! There is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless! And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps! Do you maggots understand that?

pfft I'm TA thats pretty much what I'm paid for >.>

I keep meaning to investigate that option, mainly in terms of commitment, likelihood of getting called up and how it interacts with university etc.

Doesn't help that the TA site isn't exactly superb.

And yet, people who don't want to shoot others rarely become soldiers...

What about people who live in a county that has conscription?

What about people who live in a county that has conscription?

*shrugs* Do what my brothers did, go for social service instead. At least that's something you can respect.

I happily enlisted in the Marine Corps in 1986 as an infantryman, and served My God, My Country, and My Corps faithfully for 20 years. I loved every other minute of my service. Every day was something new and exciting. I have seen the world and met so many different people and cultures that I wouldn't even begin to try to describe the amazing sights and people. The men and women that I served with and commanded are a special breed and will forever be in my heart, as are ALL Marines. Marines share a kinship that other services do not. The Marine Corps is an amazingly close knit community. We are ALWAYS Marines from the day we graduated from boot till the day we die, and go to heavens gate to stand watch over the pearly gates. I served in more than a few combat zones, and many more humanitarian missions. I have lost men and saved many people that were unable to save themselves. I am very proud of being a Marine.

Not everyone agrees that there should even be a military or that what the US Military does is right or just, and that is ok, they are allowed to have their own set of beliefs. As a Marine it is my job to ENSURE that you and every person has the right and freedom to express those beliefs as you feel fit. I'm not going to tell you that you should join the Marine Corps. That is a decision that each and every person has to think long and hard about.

Just remember: We don't promise you a rose garden.

Semper Fidelis
Well said! Semper Fi.

Well, if you've got a serious problem with killing people, joining a military operation just to get your education financed is quite dishonest, isn't it?No, I think that would be you who has serious problems with the military in general. Dislike it all you like, but equating the military to a bunch of people who're signing up to kill for no reason is rather silly.

No, I think that would be you who has serious problems with the military in general. Dislike it all you like, but equating the military to a bunch of people who're signing up to kill for no reason is rather silly.

Ok, then, what do you think is the primary purpose of an army?

Ok, then, what do you think is the primary purpose of an army?

The primary purpose of an Army is to enforce, as a last resort, the political will of a nation state.

If they can do that with a minimum number of "killings", it's still a good thing.

Just because they have the ability to kill people does not mean that it's the primary means by which their success is measured.

We also have political considerations when gauging success.

The primary purpose of an Army is to enforce, as a last resort, the political will of a nation state.

If they can do that with a minimum number of "killings", it's still a good thing.

Just because they have the ability to kill people does not mean that it's the primary means by which their success is measured.

We also have political considerations when gauging success.

By which means do they enforce it, then?
Last time I checked it was by threatening to kill and/or killing of the group who gets defined as the country's "enemy" at any given time.

By which means do they enforce it, then?
Last time I checked it was by threatening to kill and/or killing of the group who gets defined as the country's "enemy" at any given time.

Threatening does not involved killing anyone.

And with modern Western forces, the killing has been sharply reduced to achieve the same goals.

There's been a general trend to lower and lower casualty rates (for soldiers and civilians alike) in conflicts involving Western-style forces. So obviously, wholesale killing for killing's sake is not the primary goal.

As an example, Western-style militaries now specialize in leadership decapitation - that is, blowing up only the leadership, their communication networks, and other infrastructure items like power distribution and bridges.

This results in far fewer casualties than if we pursued the methods of 60 years ago, where we firebombed entire city centers.

Obviously, killing is not the "primary" goal. Destroying an enemy's ability to fight by destroying their ability to move and communicate is the primary goal.

*shrugs* Do what my brothers did, go for social service instead. At least that's something you can respect.

:fluffle: Thanks. I did go social service!

Anyway, I do respect many people who, unlike me, accepted the military draft and didn't ask social service. They were "serving their country" - for a "wage", if we want to call it that, of 5120 lire/day (that is about 2.60 €/day).

Professional soldiers, on the other hand, aren't there just for patriotism. They're in the military as job: that is, they're in for the money also. The basic grunt of the italian army, nowadays, gets something in the order of 1500 €/month... plus he hasn't to pay for food, clothes, shelter etc. And if he ever goes on mission abroad (which is voluntary!), the wage is more than doubled.

I wonder how many professional soldiers would accept to "serve their country" for 2.60 €/day.

Nope.
I'm saying that anybody who knows that he/she isn't willing to kill another human being for no other reason than being told to

But that's a stupid simplification, it's not that clear cut. And being told to is obviously not the only reason at all that soldiers have to kill others at times, in fact if it really was the case that a soldier is being ordered to kill someone, for absolutely no reason other than because that's his order (as in, the person/people he is ordered to kill are not in any way a threat to others), then the officer making that order would probably be court marshalled.

:fluffle: Thanks. I did go social service!

Anyway, I do respect many people who, unlike me, accepted the military draft and didn't ask social service. They were "serving their country" - for a "wage", if we want to call it that, of 5120 lire/day (that is about 2.60 €/day).

Professional soldiers, on the other hand, aren't there just for patriotism. They're in the military as job: that is, they're in for the money also. The basic grunt of the italian army, nowadays, gets something in the order of 1500 €/month... plus he hasn't to pay for food, clothes, shelter etc. And if he ever goes on mission abroad (which is voluntary!), the wage is more than doubled.

I wonder how many professional soldiers would accept to "serve their country" for 2.60 €/day.

That's not the case for your 'average grunt' in the UK, they get barely anything, it's actually a bit of a scandal and comes up in the news from time to time. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who joins the army, simply for the money, and for no other reason, in the UK.

That's not the case for your 'average grunt' in the UK, they get barely anything, it's actually a bit of a scandal and comes up in the news from time to time. I think you'll be hard pressed to find anyone who joins the army, simply for the money, and for no other reason, in the UK.

Same here in the US. Enlisted men don't make a lot of money.

Same here in the US. Enlisted men don't make a lot of money.
I've heard encouraging things about the Army, anyway. They have some very generous subsistence and housing allowances, compared to what was paid when I was on active duty. Back then, it was financial suicide for anyone below E-6 to get married. Most of the junior troops with families could qualify for food stamps.

I've heard encouraging things about the Army, anyway. They have some very generous subsistence and housing allowances, compared to what was paid when I was on active duty. Back then, it was financial suicide for anyone below E-6 to get married. Most of the junior troops with families could qualify for food stamps.

As a single E-5 without dependents I was making just under $4,000/month while I was deployed and most of the E-4s who were married made just more than me.

While I know you're aware of this, I'll point out to those less familiar with the military that I was receiving a fair bit extra for being deployed.

edit: My base pay is $2,670/month (E-5 with over 8 years), to which I'd add $241 for food and about $500 for housing if I were on active duty while being taxed. While deployed I was paid that, plus around $300 or $400 in additional pay while not being taxed.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

I've heard encouraging things about the Army, anyway. They have some very generous subsistence and housing allowances, compared to what was paid when I was on active duty. Back then, it was financial suicide for anyone below E-6 to get married. Most of the junior troops with families could qualify for food stamps.

The allowances have gotten better, but I believe it's still financial suicide (or immediate poverty) if you get married below E-6.

Most E-4 families still qualify for food stamps.

As a single E-5 without dependents I was making just under $4,000/month while I was deployed and most of the E-4s who were married made just more than me.

While I know you're aware of this, I'll point out to those less familiar with the military that I was receiving a fair bit extra for being deployed.

your leaving out that this money was Tax free. my brothers first tour in Iraq he was an E1 and came back with over 20k in the bank.

The allowances have gotten better, but I believe it's still financial suicide (or immediate poverty) if you get married below E-6.

Most E-4 families still qualify for food stamps.

Maybe not quite financial suicide but it's still not enough.

your leaving out that this money was Tax free. my brothers first tour in Iraq he was an E1 and came back with over 20k in the bank.

Yeah, I edited that in. I paid my car off, half of my student loans, partied it up in France for two weeks and still had $20k when I got home.

Don't join the military or any sort of armed forces. Go do something in your life that doesn't involve the potential need to kill other people. Go join the peace corp. :)

As a single E-5 without dependents I was making just under $4,000/month while I was deployed and most of the E-4s who were married made just more than me.

While I know you're aware of this, I'll point out to those less familiar with the military that I was receiving a fair bit extra for being deployed.

edit: My base pay is $2,670/month (E-5 with over 8 years), to which I'd add $241 for food and about $500 for housing if I were on active duty while being taxed. While deployed I was paid that, plus around $300 or $400 in additional pay while not being taxed.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp
The deployment pay sounds nice. In my day, we all got $30 a month for family separation after some amount of time (60 days, maybe?) and another $30 for being in a combat zone. No, I wasn't in WWII... This was during Desert Storm. The biggest break we got was free mail.

The deployment pay sounds nice. In my day, we all got $30 a month for family separation after some amount of time (60 days, maybe?) and another $30 for being in a combat zone. No, I wasn't in WWII... This was during Desert Storm. The biggest break we got was free mail.

Yeah, I wasn't even getting family sep or the BAH with dependents rate.

Apparently they're saying now that in the near future they may institute a policy within the Guard that you may recieve money for mileage and lodging for weekend drills if you live 100 miles or more from your unit's home station. Thankfully, I live roughly 120 miles from Bay City.

Also Artillery > Cavalry :)

Don't join the military or any sort of armed forces. Go do something in your life that doesn't involve the potential need to kill other people. Go join the peace corp. :)

Find me a job where they let me shoot rockets, pay me a decent wage, provide me with medical insurance and pay for my college education and I won't re-enlist.

If you ladies leave my island, if you survive recruit training... you will be a weapon, you will be a minister of death, praying for war. But until that day you are pukes! You're the lowest form of life on Earth. You are not even human fucking beings! You are nothing but unorganized grabasstic pieces of amphibian shit! Because I am hard, you will not like me. But the more you hate me, the more you will learn. I am hard, but I am fair! There is no racial bigotry here! I do not look down on niggers, kikes, wops or greasers. Here you are all equally worthless! And my orders are to weed out all non-hackers who do not pack the gear to serve in my beloved Corps! Do you maggots understand that?

I watched that on Monday, what a film.

Find me a job where they let me shoot rockets, pay me a decent wage, provide me with medical insurance and pay for my college education and I won't re-enlist.

I'm finally meeting some like minded people.

I'm finally meeting some like minded people.

Don't get too happy - a lot here will call you an insane, bloodthirsty nutjob. Mostly people who've never had the pleasure of serving.

I watched that on Monday, what a film.

Accurrate, too. Watch Full Metal Jacket if decide to join the USMC.

Don't get too happy - a lot here will call you an insane, bloodthirsty nutjob. Mostly people who've never had the pleasure of serving.

People call me that all the time. You just have remember that it takes REAL balls to serve.

I'm finally meeting some like minded people.

My thing is that I don't even blame these people for having such views of the military. I didn't "understand" it very well until I joined. It's easy to develop a skewed perspective of the military based on what one learns strictly from watching movies and reading in the news.

Except the SAS, SBS, Royal Marines, Spetznaz, French Foreign Legion etc etc.

pfft have any of these ever won a war?

Load of USMC went into the SBS bar thinking there the dogs bollocks and got the shit kicked out of them, same thing happend on a French frigate.

did you hear this off your cadet instructor? (the one who was reserve assistant mess tin washer in the Falklands)

I keep meaning to investigate that option, mainly in terms of commitment, likelihood of getting called up and how it interacts with university etc.

1) I think the commitment is down to like 21 days now if the regiment is local (14 if not)
2) zero likelihood of call up (its all volunteer barring WWIII/civilian catastrophe)
3) what you will want is OTC if your in uni which is made for you student types

Doesn't help that the TA site isn't exactly superb.

the idea of the site is to get you to pop in (my suspicion is they like to asses you first on the questions you ask)

Apparently they're saying now that in the near future they may institute a policy within the Guard that you may recieve money for mileage and lodging for weekend drills if you live 100 miles or more from your unit's home station. Thankfully, I live roughly 120 miles from Bay City.

good god they treat you bad the worst we have is not being able to collect nectar points if we are driving on army pay

I'm finally meeting some like minded people.

It won't last long.

pfft have any of these ever won a war?

Oh, of course, what was I thinking? ;)

Accurrate, too. Watch Full Metal Jacket if decide to join the USMC.

Lol.

Apparently they're saying now that in the near future they may institute a policy within the Guard that you may recieve money for mileage and lodging for weekend drills if you live 100 miles or more from your unit's home station. Thankfully, I live roughly 120 miles from Bay City.

Also Artillery > Cavalry :)

Sweet, my house is exactly 113 miles from the armory in Manistee.

We have cool hats. Cavalry > Artillery.

Find me a job where they let me shoot rockets, pay me a decent wage, provide me with medical insurance and pay for my college education and I won't re-enlist.

Every time I go to the M240 range I think "I can't believe they're paying me for this!". Even if I'm just safetying it's a great time.

1) I think the commitment is down to like 21 days now if the regiment is local (14 if not)

21 days a year?


good god they treat you bad the worst we have is not being able to collect nectar points if we are driving on army pay

Yeah, but they give us all kinds of free shit. In the last year I've been issued 4 multitools and 3 Surefire flashlights. And by "issued" I mean "given" because they don't want them back.

Don't join the artillery. I still have hearing problems several years afterward. You get a tour of the most God-Awful places on earth. Up to your neck in swamp, or snow. You hate camping ever after being in the armed forces. 12 pound rifle (may be lighter these days) and pack full crap are you best friends. You do drill so long it will make you puke. You have to run everywhere and back. Polish boots, iron clothes, de-lint uniforms. Inspections everyday. Swimming everyday just after breakfast. You be able to take a weapon apart and put it back together in a minute, some can do it faster. Do you really care how many different kinds of shells there are? People call you skin head, jar head etc. You get into fights off base because you looked at someones girlfriend or because my division, company, unit is better than your division, company, unit.

You develop a bad attitude with respect to authority figure in your life. People yell at you all the time. Sometimes one in each ear. You get woken up by the sound of a garbage can and a pay stick approx 4:30AM - 5 something AM every damn morning.

They call you every name under the book, anything to make you crack.

Polish boots, iron clothes

Actually, no one in the US military do either of those anymore. The boots are all suede and the uniforms are wash and wear. They switched to both of those during my break in service, and boy wasn't I surprised when I showed up to drill as the only asshole in BDUs with spit shined boots. None of my troops even know what Kiwi is.

You develop a bad attitude with respect to authority figure in your life.

I never did, but I just learned to pick any useful bits out of what they were saying and ignore the rest. Towards the end of basic I had the same emotional reaction to someone yelling at me as to someone talking to me in a conversational tone.

21 days a year?

half my company is more or less imaginary:p

Yeah, but they give us all kinds of free shit. In the last year I've been issued 4 multitools and 3 Surefire flashlights. And by "issued" I mean "given" because they don't want them back.

:( being in brecon and having ebay let me down was not cool last year

you wouldn't believe the kit issues the British army has though from experience the royal navy is worse when a mate came home with a gas mask that doesn't fit and no idea what fullers earth was

Actually, no one in the US military do either of those anymore. The boots are all suede and the uniforms are wash and wear. They switched to both of those during my break in service, and boy wasn't I surprised when I showed up to drill as the only asshole in BDUs with spit shined boots. None of my troops even know what Kiwi is.

how hard can it be to polish and iron kit?

Actually, no one in the US military do either of those anymore. The boots are all suede and the uniforms are wash and wear. They switched to both of those during my break in service, and boy wasn't I surprised when I showed up to drill as the only asshole in BDUs with spit shined boots. None of my troops even know what Kiwi is.



I never did, but I just learned to pick any useful bits out of what they were saying and ignore the rest. Towards the end of basic I had the same emotional reaction to someone yelling at me as to someone talking to me in a conversational tone.
What a ritual that was, too. A little water in the top of the Kiwi can, burn off the top of the polish, pull a piece of t-shirt over your index finger, dab it in the water, then in the polish, then rub the polish into the boot.

I saw my first pair of suede boots in Desert Storm. We kept wearing the black flight boots for the duration, but I only brushed black on those.

Cavalry > Artillery.Also Artillery > Cavalry :)What's up with the cavalry-artillery rivalry thing?

half my company is more or less imaginary:p

Mine was before this deployment when we snagged guys up from all around the state. Of course, as Michigan's economy continued to nose dive we came back and we're now well over strength. Funny how that works.

you wouldn't believe the kit issues the British army has though from experience the royal navy is worse when a mate came home with a gas mask that doesn't fit and no idea what fullers earth was

Oh, I'd believe it. I ran into a British tank unit from somewhere in Germany while I was in Iraq and talked for a bit. Their lieutenant was amazed that we're issued Gatorade.

how hard can it be to polish and iron kit?

I think the idea was that they'd rather the soldiers spent their time doing constructive training or something.

What a ritual that was, too. A little water in the top of the Kiwi can, burn off the top of the polish, pull a piece of t-shirt over your index finger, dab it in the water, then in the polish, then rub the polish into the boot.

I kinda miss it. It was relaxing. My evening ritual, I suppose.

I saw my first pair of suede boots in Desert Storm. We kept wearing the black flight boots for the duration, but I only brushed black on those.

I saw my first in 2003 but now they've issued me close to a dozen pair. Of course, I'm still wearing my two pair I was issued in '03, largely because they don't make them anymore.

edit:

What's up with the cavalry-artillery rivalry thing?

There not (as far as I'm aware) a specific "arty v. cav" thing, it's just shit talking. Especially because we'll probably run into each other at Camp Grayling this summer without realizing it.

There not (as far as I'm aware) a specific "arty v. cav" thing, it's just shit talking. Especially because we'll probably run into each other at Camp Grayling this summer without realizing it.Oh, alright. Gotcha. :p

Aviation is my thing. (Especially since I've found out that they allow prospective pilots to have LASIK, now.)

There not (as far as I'm aware) a specific "arty v. cav" thing, it's just shit talking. Especially because we'll probably run into each other at Camp Grayling this summer without realizing it.

Probably, and when/if this happens, New Wallonochia will order me to do flutter-kicks until I puke because I'm just a lowly E-4 who insulted the holy institution of cavalry. ;)

Probably, and when/if this happens, New Wallonochia will order me to do flutter-kicks until I puke because I'm just a lowly E-4 who insulted the holy institution of cavalry. ;)

While wearing my stetson, of course :p

While wearing my stetson, of course :p

Eh, let's forget we even had this discussion. We're supposed to be picking on the infantry!

pfft have any of these ever won a war?



did you hear this off your cadet instructor? (the one who was reserve assistant mess tin washer in the Falklands)

I vaguely remember something like this. Mainly because the tabloids when a bit silly about "yeah, our boys pwned" or something.



1) I think the commitment is down to like 21 days now if the regiment is local (14 if not)
2) zero likelihood of call up (its all volunteer barring WWIII/civilian catastrophe)
3) what you will want is OTC if your in uni which is made for you student types

There isn't one, but thanks for the info.


the idea of the site is to get you to pop in (my suspicion is they like to asses you first on the questions you ask)

If so then they're devious, it looks good but is mostly dead links.

Eh, let's forget we even had this discussion. We're supposed to be picking on the infantry!

I'd never smoke anyone but my own joes anyway. One of which, my driver, happens to be an 11 Bodybag...

Don't join the military or any sort of armed forces. Go do something in your life that doesn't involve the potential need to kill other people. Go join the peace corp. :)

Peace Corps doesn't pay. Or let you have snazzy uniforms or play with several million dollars worth of violent equipment.

That is all.`

Peace Corps doesn't pay. Or let you have snazzy uniforms or play with several million dollars worth of violent equipment.

That is all.`

pssst...how's air force treating you?