NationStates Jolt Archive

So last Monday night, the History Channel talked about the end times as foretold in the Book of Revelation. It talked about the Seven Seals, the Seven Bowls, the Seven Horns, and of course the Four Horsemen. The Book of Revelation talked about horrible tribulations that those who have been left behind will go through as the world come crumbling down around them. Wars, Famine, Epidemic, Earthquakes, Asteroids, and of course the Anti-Christ.

However, we've seen these events happens in the past, we've survived war, we survived Epidemics, earthquakes, Hell they seem to happen almost everyday. What makes the event in the Book of Revelation so special? Also, every generation thinks that they lived in the end times. I know that my parents generation thought they were in the end times due to the Cold War and the threat of Nuclear Holocaust. What makes this generation different?

Also, forget me if I'm wrong, but the Book of Revelation isn't the only book to foretell the end times, several people have, and every one of them have failed, a few of them ended up broke and drunk the next day. I mean if people over time didn't get the end date right, why would John get it right?

Wait -- only four Horsemen? Why not seven, like everything else? Where are my other three Horsemen, dammit? ;)

Wait -- only four Horsemen? Why not seven, like everything else? Where are my other three Horsemen, dammit? ;)

They're chronic procrastinators.

Lame Mura...

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.

Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.

Also, forget me if I'm wrong, but the Book of Revelation isn't the only book to foretell the end times, several people have, and every one of them have failed, a few of them ended up broke and drunk the next day. I mean if people over time didn't get the end date right, why would John get it right?

Apocalyptic literature has been around far before Christianity.

Kagetora;14372577']Lame Mura...

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.


Umm actually, we had that ability since 1945...try again.

Apocalyptic literature has been around far before Christianity.

My point still stands, but thanks for the correction.

Umm actually, we had that ability since 1945...try again.

There were only 2 bombs in 1945. Thats not enough to destroy humanity;)

Sure, tons of people have predicted the end times. The Jehovah's Witness started as a religion based around Armageddon. Nostradamus was (maybe still is) believed to have foretold many events (such as Hitler), including the end times. The Mayan calendar ended in 2012, and people think that may be the end times (I think that's unlikely though. Maybe the calendar ended because the Mayans were killed before they could make more).

I wouldn't sweat it. If the end times come, the only people who have to worry are those who don't die.

Wrong. Since 1945, for the most part we didn't have the capability to destroy all of humanity. In fact at that point, only one nation even had nuclear capability.

My point still stands, but thanks for the correction.

Oh, it very much does still stand. I was just reassuring you that you were not wrong, as your sentence began with "Forget me if Im wrong..."


I was just pointing that out to say, no Wilgrove, youre right.

Sure, tons of people have predicted the end times. The Jehovah's Witness started as a religion based around Armageddon. Nostradamus was (maybe still is) believed to have foretold many events (such as Hitler), including the end times. The Mayan calendar ended in 2012, and people think that may be the end times (I think that's unlikely though. Maybe the calendar ended because the Mayans were killed before they could make more).

I wouldn't sweat it. If the end times come, the only people who have to worry are those who don't die.

The lost book of Nostradamus predicts that on the Solar Eclipse of the Galactic Center (2012) the world will change drastically.

The Mayan calendars we know of happened before the Conquistadors came. They had plenty of time

Kagetora;14372592']Wrong. Since 1945, for the most part we didn't have the capability to destroy all of humanity. In fact at that point, only one nation even had nuclear capability.

What about the Cold War? The fact that the USSR and USA had enough nukes to destroy the world several times over?

Oh, it very much does still stand. I was just reassuring you that you were not wrong, as your sentence began with "Forget me if Im wrong..."


I was just pointing that out to say, no Wilgrove, youre right.

Yay, I feel validated! *gives KoL beer*

Kagetora;14372601']The lost book of Nostradamus predicts that on the Solar Eclipse of the Galactic Center (2012) the world will change drastically.

The Mayan calendars we know of happened before the Conquistadors came. They had plenty of time

Noted.

Is there evidence that they had ceased working on it by that point?

The fact that they were carved in stone kinda implies they would be in stone still. But there is the (very small) possibility that since the conquistadors destroyed the Mayan libraries, there might have been something.

@Milgrove: That's not 1945... and technically, a bunch of people from that time period are still alive anyway, so they're sorta still this generation (according to me)

Kagetora;14372577']Lame Mura...
Oh, they went lame, and that's why they're late? :p

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.
That speaks to why we might actually succeed in ending the world this time, but it doesn't speak to why we should take John's word for it, since he wasn't here to observe the world of today.

Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.
Good old Nostradamus. Those quatrains can be interpreted to fit just about anything -- and have been, too.

I am torn about the whole 2012 thing. On the one hand, I don't believe in oracles and augurs, but on the other hand, I do believe in being prepared. But I don't know whether the best course would be to stay in a good, crowded, "Escape From New York" ready city, or buy that little foreclosed pot farm in the mountains and set up a perimeter and a vegie garden. It was easier in the 80s, with the constantly looming threat of imminent nuclear annihilation. There was no question that I wanted to be right at ground zero -- none of that Mad Max shit for me, thanks -- bunch of mutated Australians running around in chaps with no underpants, no thanks.

But massive astrological shifts just don't give quite the same decision-making motivation. How can you predict whether the massive changes will be good or bad?

1. *Facepalm*
2. Which is why it's a prophecy, and if you're Xian, than any prophet who gets anything wrong is to be shunned, and I think John probably didn't have anything wrong
3. In the lost book, they are Alchemic and Astrological symbols
4. Well the last time the Solar/Center eclipse happened (approx 26,000 years ago) the last Ice Age melted and Neanderthals became populous

Kagetora;14372634']1. *Facepalm*
2. Which is why it's a prophecy, and if you're Xian, than any prophet who gets anything wrong is to be shunned, and I think John probably didn't have anything wrong
3. In the lost book, they are Alchemic and Astrological symbols
4. Well the last time the Solar/Center eclipse happened (approx 26,000 years ago) the last Ice Age melted and Neanderthals became populous

The last Ice Age ended about 10,000 years ago, and Neanderthals went extinct about 30,000 years ago.

*goes and checks facts, probably wrong words*

The last Ice Age ended about 10,000 years ago, and Neanderthals went extinct about 30,000 years ago.

Now now, prediction is letting the belief shape the facts, don't switch it around.

After rechecking, it was rise of Modern Man, and a period of Glacial Retreat (warm period, still technically ice age)

Kagetora;14372659']After rechecking, it was rise of Modern Man, and a period of Glacial Retreat (warm period, still technically ice age)

The rise of modern man where?

25,000 B.C.

The community of Dolni Vestonice near Brno, Czechoslovakia reveals use of fires, hearths and wickiup or wigwam type structures. Between Marseille and Cassis in the Calanque a sea cave preserved paintings of early sea life and animals from this period. Mal'ta west of Lake Baikel, Siberia sites are carbon dated to 12,800 B.C. but other scholars suspect the real age of the sites is 20,000 to 25,000 B.C. They are using points, needles and ivory bracelets. They made figurines of birds and women. Three women are wearing hooded garments like the Eskimo parkas. Their hut structures are similar to those found in Czechoslovakia and the Ukraine. A modern looking woman is cremated near Lake Mungo, Australia.

Archeological discovery of a txistu flute suggests the Basque culture existed at this time in their current territory of France/Spain/Portugal. The Basque are believed to represent the indigenous Peoples of Europe and their language is not related to any other language of the world.

It is believed the Negrito Peoples arrived the Philippines.

A new human type, not Mongoloid appeared in some caves as the Peking man, in Northern China. They may be allied to the Ainu people of Japan and Korea.

A people from the Caucasus Mountains, Russia share common DNA among the Ojibwa and Dakota Sioux in America. This suggests some of these Peoples migrated to America or the Ojibwa or Dakota Sioux migrated to Russia.

24,000 B.C.

It is believed that Neanderthal man is still using the caves in southern Spain at this time.

From this source, just about everywhere

According to the History Channel last Sunday, it was the appearance of Cro Magnon people in Europe and presumed beginning of the end for Neanderthals. Of course, we don't really know how and when the Neanderthals disappeared, but even so, that wasn't bad for the Cro Magnons, was it? So again, will the coming changes be good or bad, ultimately? We can't predict that.

Umm guys, this is about the Book of Revelation, not about Neanderthals and modern man. Move it along.

Kagetora;14372669']From this source, just about everywhere
What source? No link? Not even a title/author?

THAT'S THE WORD I COULDN'T THINK OF! CRO-MAGNON!

The rise of the Cro-magnon at the end of a glacial period is what I was thinking of, not the Neanderthals

Umm guys, this is about the Book of Revelation, not about Neanderthals and modern man. Move it along.
Revelation has been done to death, W.

What source? No link? Not even a title/author?

http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/euro3.htm

@Wilgrove: To me it seemed to be about Prophecies in general

People have been predicting "the end of the world" by Revelations for the past THOUSAND YEARS. The "prophecies" are so vague that EVERY era counts if you look hard enough.

Oh, and by the way, we DON'T currently have the capacity to wipe ourselves out with a nuclear exchange. If all the nuclear powers went at it, we'd lose the northern hemisphere - the south would survive.

Kagetora;14372679']http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/euro3.htm

@Wilgrove: To me it seemed to be about Prophecies in general
Thanks. Interesting. Took a lot of fiddling and poking to find the author. I notice that, aside from his collection of quotable quotes, he doesn't offer much in the way of bibliography, either. And I still can't figure out what his perspsective is, but whatever. Thanks for the citation.

Revelation has been done to death, W.

Kagetora;14372679']http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/euro3.htm

@Wilgrove: To me it seemed to be about Prophecies in general

A civilize and well let's be honest, a man who gives a damn what other people think of him would politely ask you to make a thread on this. Me on the other hand decide to fire up MSPaint.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v73/PAY5353/Threadjacking.jpg

Kagetora;14372679']http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dgarneau/euro3.htm

@Wilgrove: To me it seemed to be about Prophecies in general

I mean continuous stuff is happening in that link from 35, 000BC onwards.

To just place a date of 26, 000 years ago and then add some special significance to it...

Well, it's the stuff of prophecy.

People have been predicting "the end of the world" by Revelations for the past THOUSAND YEARS. The "prophecies" are so vague that EVERY era counts if you look hard enough.

Oh, and by the way, we DON'T currently have the capacity to wipe ourselves out with a nuclear exchange. If all the nuclear powers went at it, we'd lose the northern hemisphere - the south would survive.

Why would the South survive?

Why would the South survive?

It may not survive but the South will rise again, so it has been foretold.

I think the real reason is that there's bugger all there to bomb.

Why would the South survive?

Not enough targets, not enough nukes. To wipe out humanity you'd need to hit enough of an area to lethally irradiate most of the planetary (land) surface - with the number of nukes currently available, they could do that throughout the northern hemisphere, but only certain, strategic points in the south would be hit.

It may not survive but the South will rise again, so it has been foretold.

I think the real reason is that there's bugger all there to bomb.

Yea but wouldn't the wind at least bring the fallout to the Southern Hemisphere?

Not enough targets, not enough nukes. To wipe out humanity you'd need to hit enough of an area to lethally irradiate most of the planetary (land) surface - with the number of nukes currently available, they could do that throughout the northern hemisphere, but only certain, strategic points in the south would be hit.

I dunno, I mean what if all you needed to do was to create a Nuclear winter, where we kick up such a storm that we have a never ending blanket of clouds? That would destroy all plant life as we know it, thus destroying us.

Yea but wouldn't the wind at least bring the fallout to the Southern Hemisphere?

Fallout on;y lasts about two weeks. By the time the wind brought sufficient particulates far enough south to do damage, they would already have decayed to harmlessness.

Fallout on;y lasts about two weeks. By the time the wind brought sufficient particulates far enough south to do damage, they would already have decayed to harmlessness.

Depends on how much fallout there is. If everyone launches every single last Nuke, we're talking about a shit load of fallout.

I thought you liked randomness in your threads wilgrove.

Let the talk take thread where it will...go with the flow! :D

I dunno, I mean what if all you needed to do was to create a Nuclear winter, where we kick up such a storm that we have a never ending blanket of clouds? That would destroy all plant life as we know it, thus destroying us.

First, the Southern and Northern weather systems do not significantly interact; a nuclear winter scenario covering the north would likely only mean cold summers and harsh winters (and correspondingly poor crop yields) in the South - harsh, but survivable.

Secondly, most of the Nuclear Winter scenarios were predicated on lots of ground bursts to destroy heavily protected bunkers. But neither side actually built all that many nuclear bunkers, so 90% of nukes would actually be air bursts, which do more damage to a larger area - but do not throw up huge amounts of particulates. We might solve global warming, but we wouldn't freeze.

Depends on how much fallout there is. If everyone launches every single last Nuke, we're talking about a shit load of fallout.

Actually, amount means nothing. The only meaningful stat is the half-life of the particulates, which averages three days. By day 15 it's halved in quantity five times - however much got thrown up, there's not going to be much left.

Plus, fallout is, by it's very nature, heavy. Thus it's name - it "falls out" of the air quite rapidly.

Pearls (http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/2008-12-25/) nailed it ;)

Pearls (http://comics.com/pearls_before_swine/2008-12-25/) nailed it ;)

Hehe, that was funny.

Why would the South survive?
You just threadjacked yourself.

And I would like to point out that I did address the original topic by pointing out that Kagetora's point about Revelation being relevant now because we can finally make it come true does not answer why we should give John the benefit of the doubt about having predicted what he did.

I also addressed the original topic when I questioned why John shortchanged us on Horsemen.

What about the Cold War? The fact that the USSR and USA had enough nukes to destroy the world several times over?

No they didn't. Enough to ruin each other as nations, yes. Enough to wipe out their military and industrial capacity and put the immediate death toll in the hundreds of millions, naturally. But not enough to "destroy" the world even once, much less several times over. You'll need a bigger bang than that.

No they didn't. Enough to ruin each other as nations, yes. Enough to wipe out their military and industrial capacity and put the immediate death toll in the hundreds of millions, naturally. But not enough to "destroy" the world even once, much less several times over. You'll need a bigger bang than that.

Actually, at the height of the Cold War, they could have come close. But that was before the SALT and START and MRM treaties, and the massive reductions in nukes both the US and ex-USSR went through after the Fall of the Wall.

what i find interesting, is that 'revelations' was written BEFORE the epsitles of "saint" paul, more properly known as saul of tarsus.

also this focus on war is a bit misdirected. lets not forget death and the OTHER two members of his posse, famine and disease. nobody said it had to happen all at once either.

even the concept of "end" can be applied somewhat euphamistically. now we DO have perminant long term shifts in wide area weather patterns, somewhat overdramatically refered to as global warming. not so visibly spectacular in and of themselves, but famine and disease on a larger scale, global epidemic proportions, could, conceivably reduce total human population to more sustainable levels then its current excess, are really much more capable of doing so over the long haul, then the deadliest of immediate conflicts, which tend to be fallowed by breeding frenzies which resault in more OVER population rather then ending up having reduced it.

there is also to consider, the distinct PROBABILITY that EVERYTHING in revelation was refering aligorically to matters of the spirit, or more directly, of organized belief.

and indeed one great cycled closed and a new one opened, less then a couple of hundred years ago, between 1844 and 1863, and it was the events of this context, as much or more then physical chainges in our tangable world that were more then likely being refered to.

in essence, "the world" in the sense revelations refered to, "ended" at that time.

(and if not then, then certainly bakini atol, heroshima and nagasaki)

Actually, at the height of the Cold War, they could have come close. But that was before the SALT and START and MRM treaties, and the massive reductions in nukes both the US and ex-USSR went through after the Fall of the Wall.

No, not even close. If we want to talk about destroying the world, you would require, at the very least, enough power to crack it apart like an egg, or at least blast enough of its mass into space so that what remains will break into fragments. That's several magnitudes greater than the combined nuclear stockpile of the height of the cold war was capable of.

The Earth is a massive ball of mostly iron. It can survive a lot of things that humanity wouldn't, nukes, maybe even the Moon parking its butt on the surface included.

No, not even close. If we want to talk about destroying the world, you would require, at the very least, enough power to crack it apart like an egg, or at least blast enough of its mass into space so that what remains will break into fragments. That's several magnitudes greater than the combined nuclear stockpile of the height of the cold war was capable of.

The Earth is a massive ball of mostly iron. It can survive a lot of things that humanity wouldn't, nukes, maybe even the Moon parking its butt on the surface included.

Okay, true. I was thinking more along the lines of "sterilise the surface".

So what do the seven seals do? Balance balls on their noses, play Yankee Doodle on the seven horns? Horsemen, seals - is this an apocalypse or a circus? Will there be clowns?

Umm actually, we had that ability since 1945...try again.

Um, no. Not really. While the nuclear weapons theory had been proven successful:

1) the bombs themselves weren't all that powerful, with the fusion bomb having not being built yet
2) only one country had them
3) launch capabilities were non existant, requiring a successful bomber run to even drop them

It wasn't until the 1960, and really the 1970s, when missle technology, nuclear weapons technology, and targetting technology had spread to the point where a full scale nuclear war became a possibility.

Really, for such arrogance one would think you actually would make sure to know what you're talking about.

(1) 2012 is NOT the end of the mayan calendar. They have thirteen places in their calendar but only use the first five for the same reason we describe years as '88 or '09 instead if 1988 or 2009. Not surprisingly, the first eight places aren't all the maximum! Just think of 2012 as mayan Y2K.

(2) The book of revelation is a myth created in a drug-filled hallucination. Martin Luther found it offensive, John Calvin doubted it, and Thomas Jefferson "considered it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams". (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_revelation#Dismissal)

(3) There's no such thing as an antichrist. If christianity wasn't false, then they would have identified Hitler (or Stalin or Ximenez de Cisneros or...) as him.

So last Monday night, the History Channel talked about the end times as foretold in the Book of Revelation. It talked about the Seven Seals, the Seven Bowls, the Seven Horns, and of course the Four Horsemen. The Book of Revelation talked about horrible tribulations that those who have been left behind will go through as the world come crumbling down around them. Wars, Famine, Epidemic, Earthquakes, Asteroids, and of course the Anti-Christ.

However, we've seen these events happens in the past, we've survived war, we survived Epidemics, earthquakes, Hell they seem to happen almost everyday. What makes the event in the Book of Revelation so special? Also, every generation thinks that they lived in the end times. I know that my parents generation thought they were in the end times due to the Cold War and the threat of Nuclear Holocaust. What makes this generation different?

Also, forget me if I'm wrong, but the Book of Revelation isn't the only book to foretell the end times, several people have, and every one of them have failed, a few of them ended up broke and drunk the next day. I mean if people over time didn't get the end date right, why would John get it right?

I always take the Book of Revelations in an academic way. Since that's an apocalypse or ''end'' to a book, in this case the Bible, I usually do not take it literally.

(1) 2012 is NOT the end of the mayan calendar. They have thirteen places in their calendar but only use the first five for the same reason we describe years as '88 or '09 instead if 1988 or 2009. Not surprisingly, the first eight places aren't all the maximum! Just think of 2012 as mayan Y2K.A pity. 2012 heralding a Mayan 'New Age'/ awakening, where they sweep across Mesoamerica and take back what was once theirs would be pretty awesome to watch.

Hell. Maybe... Modern Maya in... Guatemala, I think, are again learning their classic script. Just a first step, but... <.<

the book of revelations is given credence because it is in the bible. for the same reason and by the same people.

these people think that NOW is going to be the end times for 2 reasons

1) it hasnt happened yet so all those numerous other times that would seem to count obviously werent the time. the near future CAN be the time because it has to happen sometime eh?

2) they live now, worry about it now, and can make money/debate points on it now.

none of the other end times revelations count because they are not the inerrant word of god. they are just some junk written by crazy men.

the book of revelations

"revelation" god damn it. "Book of Revelation" :p

"revelation" god damn it. "Book of Revelation" :p
we always called it the apocalypse

if its going to bug you, ill have to call it revelations all the time...

we always called it the apocalypse

and interestingly enough, a dooomsday book has nothing to do with doomsday, and really isn't a book.

more of a ledger really.

and interestingly enough, a dooomsday book has nothing to do with doomsday, and really isn't a book.

more of a ledger really.
that is very odd. bit if a letdown really. you get all excited about reading about ....well DOOM and all you get is a kind of census.

(wrong spelling again eh?)

however, the doomsday book by connie willis is a great read. its one of my favorite books ever.

A pity. 2012 heralding a Mayan 'New Age'/ awakening, where they sweep across Mesoamerica and take back what was once theirs would be pretty awesome to watch.

Hell. Maybe... Modern Maya in... Guatemala, I think, are again learning their classic script. Just a first step, but... <.<

Well, when the biggest news on December 21st, 2012 is "Beloved donut shop declares bankruptcy" or something...

Dear crap, people!

The calander on my wall ends on December 31st, 2009! Only a year left!

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

Then I presume you'll be selling your daughters on the open market any day now...

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

I don't believe that for one bit. Maybe St John was a rambling lunatic that was just scratching together lots of different stories to make one for himself. We see this today still with doomsday cults. They all turn out to be insane.

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

uh huh.

O, ye of little faith.....

O, ye of little faith.....

well...yeah. Do I have faith in the rantings of a madman? no, of course not. That's pretty much common sense. The bigger question, seems to me, is why you do.

O, ye of little faith.....
it doesnt much matter does it?

its prophecy, there is no way to know exactly what is meant by it

and, since the last chapter says that the events are to happen SOON, its all over with. whatever was being revealed, its already happened.

rev. 22:10 "This, too, he said to me, 'Do not keep the prophecies in this book a secret, because the Time is close. "

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

You know that when the first Christian Bishops met to discuss what books would be part of official Christian canon, Revelation barely made the cut, right? Seems most of them thought it was just as insane as it appears.


I do love the logic though. The Hebrews, their neighbors, and every other civilization had been writing apocalyptic literature for thousands of years before the Book of Revelation was written, and none of it was meant to be taken literally. It was all symbolic/political in motive.

Yet now we're supposed to believe that this one book is? Psh.

O, ye of little faith.....

...and sufficient reason and intelligence, clearly.

The early church almost didn't include the stupid thing in the Bible. Which means that people back then realised how ridiculous the thing was, but people from today don't.

The early church almost didn't include the stupid thing in the Bible. Which means that people back then realised how ridiculous the thing was, but people from today don't.

But, but we are much smarter today. :$

But, but we are much smarter today. :$

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

You sure about that?

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lj3iNxZ8Dww

You sure about that?

Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

lol, well she is hot. Rick so not..... :tongue:

lol, well she is hot. Rick so not..... :tongue:

:D Bit too 2008?

Kagetora;14372577']Lame Mura...

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.

Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.

To you, Nostradamus is "the big one?"

Well then, we have nothing to fear.

Incidentally, despite what the History Channel might assert, there's no specific date associated with the Book of Revelation.

:D Bit too 2008?


Nah, a bit too 2007 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0).

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

LG! Someone's elbowing in on your jokeposting territory!

Kagetora;14372577']Lame Mura...

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.

Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.

Not really. Nuclear warfare wouldn't end humanity, just kill a very significant proportion of it. In the ancient ages, a nation having all it's cities razed, it's military capacity completely destroyed, and 1/3-1/2 dead and a significant number enslaved or deported. In that sense, while the weapons seem terrifying (as they should), it's not too different from what happened to Carthage after the Punic Wars. No fallout and such, but same general events.

Also, didn't the Book of Revelation say that the end times would come within a generation after Jesus death and resurrection?

Kagetora;14372577']are said to

Exactly.

Kagetora;14372577']Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.

2012 is merely the end of a calendar cycle for the Mayans. Also, just because it finishes there, why does it mean that it's a world-end prophecy? Maybe they got up to 2012, and then were too busy being shot by the Spaniards to continue?

And for the record, I LOATHE Nostradamus. Partly for his prophecising, but mainly because it inspired morons to look into things more deeply than necessary and then shout "Nostradamus predicted it! IT'S ALL OVER PEOPLE!". Especially that Hitler/Hister thing, god that was a joke.

the fact is that the mayan people believed in a philosophy based around the cycles. they hads setup 13 cycles in which the world would take until the final cycle would come to a close in 2012 when the world and universe would end and everything would be erased. now as to if this will actaully happen, i dont know, but the lack of more calendars has nothing to do with when the whites arrived. it all falls into their system of cycles, not a continuous calendar.

The story was told by St. John, but the words are the word of God.

Attributed.

We don't actually KNOW who wrote any of the Bible books.

Attributed.

We don't actually KNOW who wrote any of the Bible books.

Sure we do! It was Jesus! :p

Wait -- only four Horsemen? Why not seven, like everything else? Where are my other three Horsemen, dammit? ;)

Dopey, Sneezy and Sleepy don't know how to ride :D...

...c'mon that wasn't THAT bad.

If the world as we know it is going to end as per the word of God and His will, then I can see no problem with it. I certainly don't fear it and many welcome it. Depending on your perspective it should be a time of celebration or your worst nightmare.

If the world as we know it is going to end as per the word of God and His will, then I can see no problem with it. I certainly don't fear it and many welcome it. Depending on your perspective it should be a time of celebration or your worst nightmare.

In other words - it's a way to make people feel like they're part of the winning side, and that 'bad people won't prosper'.

It's wish fulfillment, and it's cute. It's how you convince people to be pawns for twenty centuries. But it's about as significant to real life, as Harry Potter.

In other words - it's a way to make people feel like they're part of the winning side, and that 'bad people won't prosper'.
"In other words" are your words not mine and miss the mark by a mile.

It's wish fulfillment, and it's cute.
Whose "wish fulfillment" are you talking about?

It's how you convince people to be pawns for twenty centuries.
Perhaps the world is in need of more pawns?

But it's about as significant to real life, as Harry Potter.
Your opinion is duly noted.

"In other words" are your words not mine and miss the mark by a mile.


Your words: "Depending on your perspective it should be a time of celebration or your worst nightmare".

You can say I missed the mark... I think I nailed it.

Incidentally - it's neither my worst nightmare nor a cause for celebration. There's nothing celebratory or scary about unrealistic imaginative fiction.


Whose "wish fulfillment" are you talking about?


Whichever sort of people live these lives of quiet desperation that make them so juiced up about the idea that the world might end. Baptists, mainly. Or so it seems.


Perhaps the world is in need of more pawns?


Undoubtedly. Which is why I don't object to existence of religion.


Your opinion is duly noted.

It's not an opinion, it's fact. Revelation is a story in a book. It could be easily shown to have some significance to real life by... well, ever having had any significance on real life... which it hasn't. So - it's just another fairytale.

I'm not losing sleep over 'Revelation' for the same reason I'm not losing sleep over 'Red Riding Hood'.

Incidentally - it's neither my worst nightmare nor a cause for celebration. There's nothing celebratory or scary about unrealistic imaginative fiction.

I'm not losing sleep over 'Revelation' for the same reason I'm not losing sleep over 'Red Riding Hood'.

Actually, you know what religious fiction is kind of scary? The new Battle Star Galactica. Some of that could totally happen.

Actually, you know what religious fiction is kind of scary? The new Battle Star Galactica. Some of that could totally happen.

Could happen?

I thought it was reality tv!

Could happen?

I thought it was reality tv!Other than hearing "frak" places like here and not so much in common conversation irl ...

btw, in at page 7. Bringing up any archive fun stuff?
:)

It's not an opinion, it's fact. Revelation is a story in a book. It could be easily shown to have some significance to real life by... well, ever having had any significance on real life... which it hasn't. So - it's just another fairytale.

I'm not losing sleep over 'Revelation' for the same reason I'm not losing sleep over 'Red Riding Hood'.

Whil in general I agree with you, it should be noted that Revelation has had an effect on the real world. Its caused idiot US presidents to base their policey decisions around it.

Whil in general I agree with you, it should be noted that Revelation has had an effect on the real world. Its cause idiot US presidents to influence their policey decisions around it.Another in a great series of despicable travesties.

Other than hearing "frak" places like here and not so much in common conversation irl ...

btw, in at page 7. Bringing up any archive fun stuff?
:)

I don't archive any of this stuff. I used to, back in the day, but my HD fried, and I just didn't have the heart any more. :)

I don't think this particular thread is up to speed yet, anyway, so you ain't missed much. A couple of statements of faith-as-though-it-were-fact... and that's about it.

Whil in general I agree with you, it should be noted that Revelation has had an effect on the real world. Its caused idiot US presidents to base their policey decisions around it.

I think that's more of the OT idea that you got to be nice to Jews or God will take away your naptime and cocoa.

I don't archive any of this stuff. There might be some 'round here. I have a few beauts somewhere in the old email archive.

I don't think this particular thread is up to speed yet, anyway, so you ain't missed much. A couple of statements of faith-as-though-it-were-fact... and that's about it.How disappointing. Hotwife/Whispering Legs/Eve Online/Deep Kimchi actually is having more fun with the sea ice thread, huh? :(

Actually, you know what religious fiction is kind of scary? The new Battle Star Galactica. Some of that could totally happen.

It's not real? :(

I think that's more of the OT idea that you got to be nice to Jews or God will take away your naptime and cocoa.
Well, that and smearing faeces on your face.

I think that's more of the OT idea that you got to be nice to Jews or God will take away your naptime and cocoa.

Both Regan and Dubya have said that they believed they were playing their part in bringing about the final battle in Revelation.


It pains me to say it, but its true.

Both Regan and Dubya have said that they believed they were playing their part in bringing about the final battle in Revelation.


It pains me to say it, but its true.

Even so - it would mean that the way in which Revelation is significant... is that some people who believe it are interested in actually going beyond the perving over the idea of destruction, and are actually willing to get us all killed for it.

...which brings to my mind again... how is it that people will try to ban a Manson record, but the book that actually causes all the killing gets a free pass...

Well, that and smearing faeces on your face.

I think that's just Old Testament kinkiness.

...which brings to my mind again... how is it that people will try to ban a Manson record, but the book that actually causes all the killing gets a free pass...Or even, public vandalism, like acid on doorknobs and such.

I think that's just Old Testament kinkiness.Did that sequence involve Onan or Sara? I forget.

Even so - it would mean that the way in which Revelation is significant... is that some people who believe it are interested in actually going beyond the perving over the idea of destruction, and are actually willing to get us all killed for it.

...which brings to my mind again... how is it that people will try to ban a Manson record, but the book that actually causes all the killing gets a free pass...


We're retarded, as a species.

So last Monday night, the History Channel talked about the end times as foretold in the Book of Revelation. It talked about the Seven Seals, the Seven Bowls, the Seven Horns, and of course the Four Horsemen. The Book of Revelation talked about horrible tribulations that those who have been left behind will go through as the world come crumbling down around them. Wars, Famine, Epidemic, Earthquakes, Asteroids, and of course the Anti-Christ.

However, we've seen these events happens in the past, we've survived war, we survived Epidemics, earthquakes, Hell they seem to happen almost everyday. What makes the event in the Book of Revelation so special? Also, every generation thinks that they lived in the end times. I know that my parents generation thought they were in the end times due to the Cold War and the threat of Nuclear Holocaust. What makes this generation different?

Also, forget me if I'm wrong, but the Book of Revelation isn't the only book to foretell the end times, several people have, and every one of them have failed, a few of them ended up broke and drunk the next day. I mean if people over time didn't get the end date right, why would John get it right?

Matthew 24: "And Jesus said to them 'and you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. Nation will rise against nation. Kingdom against Kingdom. And there shall be earthquakes in diverse places. Let not your hearts be troubled for these are not signs of the end."

Sure, tons of people have predicted the end times. The Jehovah's Witness started as a religion based around Armageddon. Nostradamus was (maybe still is) believed to have foretold many events (such as Hitler), including the end times. The Mayan calendar ended in 2012, and people think that may be the end times (I think that's unlikely though. Maybe the calendar ended because the Mayans were killed before they could make more).

I wouldn't sweat it. If the end times come, the only people who have to worry are those who don't die.

The Seventh Day Adventists also got their start from preaching the end times. They still preach it but they've added other stuff to it.
Interestingly, them getting the date wrong (1847 I think they called) didn't deter them from setting up their denomination to continue preaching the end of the world.
One of their things they teach is that Jesus is at this very moment passing judgement on every single person alive in the world today. He's also deciding their eternal punishment.

you shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. Nation will rise against nation. Kingdom against Kingdom. And there shall be earthquakes in diverse places. Let not your hearts be troubled for these are not signs of the end."Well, i can't really disagree with that part. Point.

What are you all worked up about???
Nothing will happen in 2012. When the Maya were talking about the "END" in their calendar. They were talking about the end of a calendrical cycle. They were not talking about the end of the world.
It just means the Maya calendar stops. The world will continue on. When the Assyrian calendar expired, did the world end????

One of their things they teach is that Jesus is at this very moment passing judgement on every single person alive in the world today. He's also deciding their eternal punishment.We'll i've already made it pretty easy if such a thing were truly to transpire.
Tat tvam asi.

Look nothing is going to happen until I get bored with you all and shut my eyes forever. There by confirming Bishop Barkely's belief that things exist only because they are perceived.

Look nothing is going to happen until I get bored with you all and shut my eyes forever. There by confirming Bishop Barkely's belief that things exist only because they are perceived.
Bishop Barkely's a figment of my imagination, not yours.
This thread cover the solipsist angle yet?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solipsism_syndrome

I just found this in Genesis 49:10

Lo-yasur shevet miyhudah, umechokek miben raglaw; ad ki-yavo shiloh, welo yikhat amim.

translated from Hebrew into English: The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come, and to him shall the people be obedient.

Sounds like whoever wrote that was talking about Jesus. Possibly that Israel would rule its territory until Jesus had come and gone. How interesting that Israel was pretty much a free state during Roman times. But then got conquered by them when Jesus came and left.
After Israel lost its territory and independence to the Romans and Arabs, a majority of the world converted to Christianity and to this day, claims obedience to the Christ.
Interesting.

Except that Israel is a country again.....

Then again, great wars have been fought and great crusades against infidels launched in his name. The Inquisition was set up on his behalf to weed out traitors. Why would Jesus be upset about that?

Of course there those who say that faith is past and that the Jesus God is dead forever. Man is above God, therefore he does not need God. Or so they say.

Then again, great wars have been fought and great crusades against infidels launched in his name. The Inquisition was set up on his behalf to weed out traitors. Why would Jesus be upset about that?Not really sure. I suppose someone should bring that up when they talk with him about that fig tree he didn't like.

Of course there those who say that faith is past and that the Jesus God is dead forever. Man is above God, therefore he does not need God. Or so they say.God clearly doesn't need us either, else he wouldn't be so keen on wiping us out so "often".
That's okay.

Your words: "Depending on your perspective it should be a time of celebration or your worst nightmare".

You can say I missed the mark... I think I nailed it.

Incidentally - it's neither my worst nightmare nor a cause for celebration. There's nothing celebratory or scary about unrealistic imaginative fiction.

Whichever sort of people live these lives of quiet desperation that make them so juiced up about the idea that the world might end. Baptists, mainly. Or so it seems.

Undoubtedly. Which is why I don't object to existence of religion.

It's not an opinion, it's fact. Revelation is a story in a book. It could be easily shown to have some significance to real life by... well, ever having had any significance on real life... which it hasn't. So - it's just another fairytale.

I'm not losing sleep over 'Revelation' for the same reason I'm not losing sleep over 'Red Riding Hood'.
What I find interesting is that you would engage me in a debate that you cannot possibly win, and I cannot possibly lose.

Kagetora;14372577']Lame Mura...

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.

Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.

Nostradamus? I share a birthday with the guy, and that basically makes me him, and I announce that he's full of shit, and everything he predicted he wrote while wasted in the drunk tank, stolen from other rambling of his drunken fraternity.

True story.

What I find interesting is that you would engage me in a debate that you cannot possibly win, and I cannot possibly lose.

What I find interesting, is that you see it as something someone could win or lose.

The problem with the post I replied to, was that it's finale was predicated on the assumption that the christian mythology is true. In preaching, you obviated any claim to 'debate'. And, I have to say - it looks like the post I'm responding to here... is preaching, too.

First let me say the second coming is a big deal to Christians, probably the biggest deal. John never said when the world would end.

What he attempted to do was tell you how you could tell if the world was ending. Thing is with this and most of the Bible's signs they can be interpreted in many ways. The guys that come knocking on your door early on Saturday morning the Jehova's Witnesses based just about their whole religion on this one book. it is a big deal but itis like putting dot on a piece of glass and then holding them up to the world. You can make the points fit with something or not.

I can quote the whole thing from memory. You have to take my word I am not looking it up.

Woe to you oh Earth and Sea. For the Devil sends the Beast with wrath because he knows the time is short. Let him who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number it's number is 666.

It is the final stand between Good and Evil. It is for all the marbles, winner take all! For Christians this is Helms Deep. This what we have been training for.

First let me say the second coming is a big deal to Christians, probably the biggest deal. John never said when the world would end.

What he attempted to do was...

...write down a dream or vision.

Anything else is conjecture. And just because that's how you want it to be, doesn't mean that's how it is.

I mean if people over time didn't get the end date right, why would John get it right?

John mentioned a date in Rev.? I must have missed that part.

It certainly seems to me as though these are the End Times (I'm a Christian). On the other hand, I do not lack the perspective to realise that every generation since Jesus ascended into Heaven has thought that they were in the End Times. If these are, they are, and I'll deal with it, if not, then not.

As far as you mentioning people being "left behind' Rapture theory is exactly that, theory. It is clear that at some point Believers will be spirited to Heaven, though whether or not that is before or after the Tribulation, or even sometime in the middle of it, no on can really say with much scriptural backing.

Yes we do have wars, and plagues and whatnot every day, I think the message is that these seven years will be particularly worse.

Also, a slight evidence to the End Times seeming sooner, is that Revelation mentions the nation of Israel, which did not exist at the time of the writing, and has not existed any time since then, until 1948. Not that that means it'll happen tomorrow, but we'll see.

...write down a dream or vision.

Anything else is conjecture. And just because that's how you want it to be, doesn't mean that's how it is.

Imagine you have to describe things 2000 or 3000 years in future and you see all these things but you have no frame of reference to describe them to people of your generation. You would likely go back to what you know. Hence what we read.

What I don't get is what the code and secrecy is all about? In no other book to we get this amount of parables.

This is the Superbowl for Christians. The sponsors are all lined up. Just think of it, it will likely be televised, we will have a record of it, probably the only time a modern civilization,we will get on paper and in the fact books but ohhhhhh it will be too late. No one left to read it.

Also, didn't the Book of Revelation say that the end times would come within a generation after Jesus death and resurrection?

Nobody knows. Only the Father knows the end date and he is keeping it mum.


Jesus gave some pointers on how tell it was the big one.

I'm no theologian but I've heard a bit from preachers. No man knows when Jesus will return so never listen to a man who predicts Jesus' return plus I believe that the entire world is supposed to go into peace for 3 and a half years before the tribulation. And if I'm not mistaken the world is supposed to have a single common language, currency, and religion.

I just found this in Genesis 49:10

Lo-yasur shevet miyhudah, umechokek miben raglaw; ad ki-yavo shiloh, welo yikhat amim.

translated from Hebrew into English: The scepter shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come, and to him shall the people be obedient.

Sounds like whoever wrote that was talking about Jesus. Possibly that Israel would rule its territory until Jesus had come and gone. How interesting that Israel was pretty much a free state during Roman times. But then got conquered by them when Jesus came and left.
After Israel lost its territory and independence to the Romans and Arabs, a majority of the world converted to Christianity and to this day, claims obedience to the Christ.
Interesting.

Except that Israel is a country again.....
i really dont think you should take random verses from the bible as some kind of prophecy.

if you look at the context, it has nothing to do with jesus.

I'm no theologian but I've heard a bit from preachers. No man knows when Jesus will return so never listen to a man who predicts Jesus' return plus I believe that the entire world is supposed to go into peace for 3 and a half years before the tribulation. And if I'm not mistaken the world is supposed to have a single common language, currency, and religion.

Well then Jesus will never return, because mankind has, does, and will always fight, and they'll fight about anything from whose god is better to imaginary lines drawn on a piece of paper that we call a map.

Also, forget me if I'm wrong, but the Book of Revelation isn't the only book to foretell the end times
If only it were that easy!
How can we forget you when you've turned NS into your own personal blog? :p


for the record, there are 7 horsemen. The other 3 are: Procrasination, Ennui and Indifference. They'll be over later as soon as they can be arsed.

If only it were that easy!
How can we forget you when you've turned NS into your own personal blog? :p

Hey you all loved The Wilgrove Show! You know you did! :p

Man I've been having alot of typos lately...

Yeah it is all very symbolic. Just be careful if anyone ask you to put a mark on your hand or head.

Yeah it is all very symbolic. Just be careful if anyone ask you to put a mark on your hand or head.

Well the priestess at the Yule Sabbat put the Pentacle on my forehead, and before that the priest put ashes on my forehead for Ash Wednesday.

Besides if you are doing the right things you have nothing to worry about.

Well the priestess at the Yule Sabbat put the Pentacle on my forehead, and before that the priest put ashes on my forehead for Ash Wednesday.

I think ashes is okay. You are on your own with Pentacle.

I think ashes is okay. You are on your own with Pentacle.

Hmm, so why is the ash ok, but the Pentacle isn't? I mean they're basically the same ceremony, they may have different meaning and different symbols, but they're basically the same thing.

Imagine you have to describe things 2000 or 3000 years in future and you see all these things but you have no frame of reference to describe them to people of your generation. You would likely go back to what you know. Hence what we read.

What I don't get is what the code and secrecy is all about? In no other book to we get this amount of parables.

There's no mention anywhere of 'John' discussing things 200 years in the future, much less 2000. Anything you read in the text as being about NOW, is because you want to see it.

And that's how 'prophecy' survives - someone says something drugged-up, and other people spend their lives trying to fit reality into it.

As for the bible being full of parables - the bible IS a parable. You're not supposed to take it literally. The whole thing is a metaphor.

This is the Superbowl for Christians. The sponsors are all lined up. Just think of it, it will likely be televised, we will have a record of it, probably the only time a modern civilization,we will get on paper and in the fact books but ohhhhhh it will be too late. No one left to read it.

You haven't actually read Revelation, have you...

Well Ash Wednesday is the beginning of Lent. The mark (a cross) is suppose to show repentance. "Remember (O man) that you are dust, and to dust you shall return."
Some of the rituals seem the same.

You haven't actually read Revelation, have you...


Many times. Every since the Omen. Remember that movie? It scared the crap out of me for weeks. I researched and read and read it some more. Even worse was Omen 2. Damn some scary stuff. The reason why I read it are probably wrong but the outcome was positive...I think.

The book is very, very difficult to really fully understand. Probably the hardest in all the Bible. The bible isn't even written in contiguous fashion. One part is in Daniel. Some is in Revelations but it is all in code or symbolism?

As a Christian, I take Revelation and couple it with many of the "end time" prophecies that are scattered throughout the Bible, including in the Gospels, as well as many sayings in Ezekiel, Daniel, and so on. And why might this generation be the one?

I've heard this interpretation: it centres on Jerusalem being in Jewish hands (1967 is when I believe they retook it all, for the first time in centuries). The Bible speaks of
Jerusalem being surrounded by Gentiles; Jews would have to *have* Jerusalem to be looking outwards to see it surrounded as such by Gentiles, and the Bible notes that the generation that lives to see *all* of the prophecies: not just war, famines, troubles, etc., but including the Jerusalem prophecy, it shall be the end time generation.

Hence, it might be us. We are told to be prepared, to know when it is near, but we cannot know the exact date.

I know he is going to hit me with the 144,000 thing. The 144,000 are tribes Israel. I am not from any tribe of Israel. I at the time of this writing would have been considered a Gentile. We are not cover in 144,000.

I know he is going to hit me with the 144,000 thing. The 144,00 are tribes Judea. I am not from any tribe of Judea. I at the time of this writing would have been considered a Gentile. We are not cover in 144,000.

So we're fucked no matter what we do if we're not in the 144,000?

Many times. Every since the Omen. Remember that movie? It scared the crap out of me for weeks. I researched and read and read it some more. Even worse was Omen 2. Damn some scary stuff. The reason why I read it are probably wrong but the outcome was positive...I think.

I remember the Omen, although I apparently was considerably less impressed by it than you were.

I'm just wondering why you're talking about Revelation being televised (like it would be one event), and why there'd be no one left. Neither of those ideas strike me as scriptural.

So we're fucked no matter what we do if we're not in the 144,000?

There is some argument. Some say the great multitude in Revelation IS the 144,000... others say that the great multitude is in addition to the 144,000. Those who aren't of Jewish extraction but ARE Christian tend to favour the latter, from what I can tell.

The most straightforward reading suggests the 144,000 ARE the multitude, and I believe that's what Witnesses teach, also... any other reading smacks of trying to fit the text to beliefs, rather than the other way round.

The book is very, very difficult to really fully understand. Probably the hardest in all the Bible. The bible isn't even written in contiguous fashion. One part is in Daniel. Some is in Revelations but it is all in code or symbolism?

A friend of mine refers to the Bible as being spiritually true, but not literally true.

See some of the stuff has happened and some will happen and it is all mixed together.

Rev 1 through 4 are message to each of the major churchs of the day.
Rev 5 through 8 are the people who get the "get out of jail free card" the get to miss Armageddon
Rev 9 through 14 are the rise of the Anti-Christ
Rev 15 through to the end is the final smackdown.


To point out look at Rev 12 that has already happened it describes the birth of Jesus. The woman is Mary. Fast forward to the last part
Then the dragon enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring Those who keep God's commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus.

Check this out. Keep in mind John had never seen an Apache attack helicopter.

This come from rev 9 7 onward

The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their head the wore something like a crown of gold and their face resembled human faces. Their hair was like women's hair and their teeth were like were like lions teeth
[not sure if he is describing the rotors or the cockpit - my words in square brackets. Human face is the pilot]
They had breastplates of iron and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses. They had tails with stingers like scorpions and in their tails they had the power to torment people for 5 months
[Funny could actually been a stinger, missile that is, or some other form of rocket, gun etc]

This is what I am talking about. You are now teleport 2000 years ago and you have to describe a helicopter to people around you. What words would you use?

Check this out. Keep in mind John had never seen an Apache attack helicopter.

This come from rev 9 7 onward

The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their head the wore something like a crown of gold and their face resembled human faces. Their hair was like women's hair and their teeth were like were like lions teeth
[not sure if he is describing the rotors or the cockpit - my words in square brackets. Human face is the pilot]
They had breastplates of iron and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses. They had tails with stingers like scorpions and in their tails they had the power to torment people for 5 months
[Funny could actually been a stinger, missile that is, or some other form of rocket, gun etc]

I wonder if you've ever seen an Apache Attack helicopter, if you think this isn't a complete stretch.

But then, technically, the design brief for the stabilizing rotor on the Apache Helicopter did say "Must be able to torment people for 5 months", whereas previous rotor-bladed weapon platforms were limited to 3 months of tormenting people.

This is what I am talking about. You are now teleport 2000 years ago and you have to describe a helicopter to people around you. What words would you use?

Evidently, terms so vague that they can be spun to represent almost anything.

Rael has 80,000 people convinced that the "columns of fire" and "wheels of light in the sky" represent spacecraft. He gets a lot of high end trim out of it.

I don't think its going to work as well for you.

To point out look at Rev 12 that has already happened it describes the birth of Jesus. The woman is Mary.

The woman in Revelation 12 is Israel.

You look, but you don't see.

Check this out. Keep in mind John had never seen an Apache attack helicopter.

This come from rev 9 7 onward

The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their head the wore something like a crown of gold and their face resembled human faces. Their hair was like women's hair and their teeth were like were like lions teeth
[not sure if he is describing the rotors or the cockpit - my words in square brackets. Human face is the pilot]
They had breastplates of iron and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses. They had tails with stingers like scorpions and in their tails they had the power to torment people for 5 months
[Funny could actually been a stinger, missile that is, or some other form of rocket, gun etc]

This is rather more a case of you WANTING it to be about a certain moden thing... than any actual similarity.

I think it's proof God supports cannabis legalisation.

What I would interpret it as

The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle.
A series of insects in columns and rows

On their head the wore something like a crown of gold and their face resembled human faces.
They're shiny, and they have human faces (like a centaur, gorgon, or one of the many mythological creatures)

Their hair was like women's hair and their teeth were like were like lions teeth
They are female faces, and have fangs

They had breastplates of iron and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses.
They wear armor, and are huge

They had tails with stingers like scorpions and in their tails they had the power to torment people for 5 months
They have large tails, and can go long times without eating

IN CONCLUSION:
Giant, shiny fairies with fangs and wearing armor and have long tails

So last Monday night, the History Channel talked about the end times as foretold in the Book of Revelation. It talked about the Seven Seals, the Seven Bowls, the Seven Horns, and of course the Four Horsemen. The Book of Revelation talked about horrible tribulations that those who have been left behind will go through as the world come crumbling down around them. Wars, Famine, Epidemic, Earthquakes, Asteroids, and of course the Anti-Christ.

However, we've seen these events happens in the past, we've survived war, we survived Epidemics, earthquakes, Hell they seem to happen almost everyday. What makes the event in the Book of Revelation so special? Also, every generation thinks that they lived in the end times. I know that my parents generation thought they were in the end times due to the Cold War and the threat of Nuclear Holocaust. What makes this generation different?

Also, forget me if I'm wrong, but the Book of Revelation isn't the only book to foretell the end times, several people have, and every one of them have failed, a few of them ended up broke and drunk the next day. I mean if people over time didn't get the end date right, why would John get it right?




( Isaiah 30:25-27 )

25 In that day, when your enemies are slaughtered, there will be streams of water flowing down every mountain and hill.

26 The moon will be as bright as the sun, and the sun will be seven times brighter--like the light of seven days! So it will be when the LORD begins to heal his people and cure the wounds he gave them.

27 Look! The LORD is coming from far away, burning with anger, surrounded by a thick, rising smoke. His lips are filled with fury; his words consume like fire.


In these scriptures God is talking to Israel. I'VE never seen or heard of the sun and moon being this bright before. So that places these end time events in the future.

Kagetora;14372577']Lame Mura...

Anyway, the reason this generation is different, is because never before has humanity had the power to literally destroy humanity in a few hours.

Also, as for prophecy, the only one I think is really credible would be the 2012 prophecy. I know at least four major groups/persons (are said to) have prophecized this. Maya, Chinese, Egyptians, and the big one, Nostradamus.
Er, it was 60 years ago they dropped the bomb... we've been able to do that scale fo damage for at least 2-3 generations...

I think you can read it and come up with a different aspect every time. It is the most difficult book in the Bible, I would say. Tons of imagery. I am not sure the book purpose other than the Good guys win after a long bitter struggle. If you can find 5 experts who totally agree on this book you will have something.

What makes the event in the Book of Revelation so special? Nothing, in a nutshell.
Well, no more special than Andy Worhol.