NationStates Jolt Archive

At one point in everyone's life, we have all encountered an asshole of teacher. That teacher has, at one point or another, abused or mishandled his/her authority as an educator. Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect), despite sometimes being obviously arbitrary and unfair. This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign, which gives the school and teachers the final say. So I ask, Why can't students challenge punishments? Because the last time I checked, I live in a democracy. And it certainly isn't democratic to have someone arbitrarily decide that I need to be disciplined. Of course, this is where the age-old adage "Do as I say, not as I do," comes in. But why should students continue to accept this system bordering on fascism?

Now, I've suffered my fair share of arbitrary punishments, as I've been going to a Catholic school for most of my academic life. But recently my friend was expelled from a Catholic school (a school for future priests) on the basis that he was "dangerous" because someone interpreted his statement "You guys annoy me so much it makes we want to kill someone." as a threat. BTW this guy is a total WoW and PC nerd. First they suspended him, told him to get a mental examination to deal with his "mental insanity," which he did. When he got a paper stating that he was clearly sane, then they expelled him.

IMO, arbitrary punishment threatens democracy. Students are being indoctrinated to accept arbitrary punishment from an authority figure. So how can adults expect the new generation to uphold their rights and freedoms, when students can't even defend themselves from unfair action taken against them? This goes completely against what the US is founded on. "If it was unpatriotic to question the government, we'd still be English!" (no offense meant to anyone of the UK)

This is just me, but I think that the failure of students to stand up to unfair action affects them as citizens. I suspect a correlation between low voter turnout and the powerlessness as a student to challenge authority. So what I'm really asking is the plausibility of starting a student rights union.

Schools are not a democracy. They have a mandate from the state (in the case of public) or from their paying customers (in the case of private) to educate. Students often do have the option for recourse in the form of an appeal system. It just usually isn't worth it.

This to me sounds like a knee jerk reaction. In some ways you can understand their response due to recent development such Columbine, Virginia Tech and several other of which we are painfully aware of. On the surface this sound like a innocent remark.

I think this ruling should be challenged through the courts. It is absolutely plausible to have a students rights union.

This I think speaks more to "We as educators" do not know how to Properly respond to violence vs. off the cuff, insincere remarks. If we do nothing we can be blamed both in the media and through the courts. If we react too strongly we can be blamed both through the media and through the courts.

you will encounter assholes in life and usually they will have power over you. deal with it.

It is absolutely plausible to have a students rights union.

like those bastard student councils that I was banned from?! :mad:

edit: also lol @ schoolkid calling authority fascist

I do not know your friend but to me I would be curious if this kid had a history of violence? Is it possible that some other factors possibly (grades/behavior) which "you" were not aware of influenced the administrators decision? Are we talking about a straight A student who was a member of the the glee club and student's council president or are we talking about a guy/gal who skipped class, drank beer behind the gym, threw paper airplanes in class and was generally disruptive?

At one point in everyone's life, we have all encountered an asshole of teacher. That teacher has, at one point or another, abused or mishandled his/her authority as an educator. Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect), despite sometimes being obviously arbitrary and unfair. This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign, which gives the school and teachers the final say. So I ask, Why can't students challenge punishments?
They probably can, by complaining to the principal or school board or some such. Not that it's likely to achieve anything until lots of students make complaints against a given teacher.
Because the last time I checked, I live in a democracy. And it certainly isn't democratic to have someone arbitrarily decide that I need to be disciplined.
Schools aren't democracies. When's the last time you voted for your next history teacher?
Of course, this is where the age-old adage "Do as I say, not as I do," comes in. But why should students continue to accept this system bordering on fascism?
Because the system doesn't border on fascism, perhaps.

Now, I've suffered my fair share of arbitrary punishments, as I've been going to a Catholic school for most of my academic life.
I've been going to catholic schools for all of my primary and secondary education. I can't recall any arbitrary punishments I've been on the receiving end of, nor any of my friends.
But recently my friend was expelled from a Catholic school (a school for future priests)
A seminary?
on the basis that he was "dangerous" because someone interpreted his statement "You guys annoy me so much it makes we want to kill someone." as a threat. BTW this guy is a total WoW and PC nerd. First they suspended him, told him to get a mental examination to deal with his "mental insanity," which he did. When he got a paper stating that he was clearly sane, then they expelled him.
If true, it could simply be a case of the seminary trying too hard to keep its hands clean of trouble priests.

IMO, arbitrary punishment threatens democracy. Students are being indoctrinated to accept arbitrary punishment from an authority figure. So how can adults expect the new generation to uphold their rights and freedoms, when students can't even defend themselves from unfair action taken against them?
Again, they can. It may not be worth it in individual cases, but it can be done.
This goes completely against what the US is founded on. "If it was unpatriotic to question the government, we'd still be English!" (no offense meant to anyone of the UK)

This is just me, but I think that the failure of students to stand up to unfair action affects them as citizens. I suspect a correlation between low voter turnout and the powerlessness as a student to challenge authority. So what I'm really asking is the plausibility of starting a student rights union.
You mean there isn't one in America? Every university in Ireland has a students union, and there's the Union of Students in Ireland which represents all of them on a national level.

Because if you are a student then for the most part you are a child, you are in the care of the school while you are there and at school you should do as your bloody well told. If you get a dick of a teacher then unlucky, but for the most part all my teachers have been sane people who only punish when it is necessary.

When your at uni, collage etc and are over 18 then you can do something about it, but not while your a child. I'm under 18 btw

Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect),

All of those can be challenged. That's what the National Board of Education, The School Inspection, administrative courts, regional and local educational authorities and ombudsmen, student body arbitration and evaluation and so on are for.

Sorry another thing came to mind. Catholic schools are notorious for getting rid of people that don't fit their mold. There was a school in our region which openly dismissed a teacher who was pregnant out of wedlock. Since they are Private school they have the right (not that is is fair mind you) to make any arbitrary rule they decide is best. For lack of a better word this sucks but those are the rules.

you will encounter assholes in life and usually they will have power over you. deal with it.


Right. This is the kind of thinking that will get the next Mussolini into office. Here's what I think. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34038778@N02/3171321221/)

I do not know your friend but to me I would be curious if this kid had a history of violence? Is it possible that some other factors possibly (grades/behavior) which "you" were not aware of influenced the administrators decision? Are we talking about a straight A student who was a member of the the glee club and student's council president or are we talking about a guy/gal who skipped class, drank beer behind the gym, threw paper airplanes in class and was generally disruptive?

My friend is quiet, but very smart and logical. He's the kind of kid that doesn't make any impression, really. He's also apathetic, but it's most likely because the people at his school don't really talk about anything that interest him. Which is why we're friends.

They probably can, by complaining to the principal or school board or some such. Not that it's likely to achieve anything until lots of students make complaints against a given teacher.

Schools aren't democracies. When's the last time you voted for your next history teacher?

I've often heard this. The US is a democracy, no? And yet the education system indoctrinates kids in a clearly anti-democratic fashion. I'm not calling for teacher elections, I'm just asking for a system to check teachers powers.


I've been going to catholic schools for all of my primary and secondary education. I can't recall any arbitrary punishments I've been on the receiving end of, nor any of my friends.


My friend once got a detention for handing another student his school bag. Both of them stated this to the teacher, whose answer was to write my friend a detention slip. Trust me, ask any American. They have at least one story like this.


A seminary?


Yeah, that's the word I was looking for.


If true, it could simply be a case of the seminary trying too hard to keep its hands clean of trouble priests.


I forgot to mention that many parents called the school to complain about him being a threat to their kids. Apparently, they didn't even search his locker, they just suspended him until he got a pysch evaluation.


You mean there isn't one in America? Every university in Ireland has a students union, and there's the Union of Students in Ireland which represents all of them on a national level.

The very least we have is a student council, which is mainly used for a number of things: a bullet on your college resume, collecting money for donation drives, and giving the illusion of a democracy, to name a few.

BTW, I'm talking on the pre-college level. I'm sure there are student rights unions on the university level, but I have to ask, why there isn't one for students on the pre-college level?

The very least we have is a student council, which is mainly used for a number of things: a bullet on your college resume, collecting money for donation drives, and giving the illusion of a democracy, to name a few.

Student councils I remember them, biggest load of bullshit you could really be apart of. Some schools have the nerve to call it a student representative council, when in reality it is just a way for the school to get students to start doing something and doesn't actually do anything for the school.

I was quite shocked in my senior years when I was voted into the council and all we were really allowed to do was to do the work for the school and not for the students. Sure it was alright to chuck on the resume but in reality it is bunk. Maybe back in the day these members of the council had some more sway and could represent students, my father tells me stories of what he did back when he was a prefect but not nowadays.

Right. This is the kind of thinking that will get the next Mussolini into office. Here's what I think. (http://www.flickr.com/photos/34038778@N02/3171321221/)

"It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep."" — Benito Mussolini

odd that a thug would say that isn't it? and to move onto me spreading wisdom you have to be realistic in life, it isn't fair but not only that its stupid to fight and squabble over things you cannot change

I've often heard this. The US is a democracy, no?
More or less.
And yet the education system indoctrinates kids in a clearly anti-democratic fashion. I'm not calling for teacher elections, I'm just asking for a system to check teachers powers.
Like principals, and school boards, and PTAs? The things that already exist?

My friend once got a detention for handing another student his school bag. Both of them stated this to the teacher, whose answer was to write my friend a detention slip. Trust me, ask any American. They have at least one story like this.
Great. Every day for 6 years 100 people in my year didn't get punished for something arbitrarily. I guess I win.



Yeah, that's the word I was looking for.
They're probably not covered by the same rules actual schools are, since they're basically part of the Catholic church.



I forgot to mention that many parents called the school to complain about him being a threat to their kids. Apparently, they didn't even search his locker, they just suspended him until he got a pysch evaluation.
How young do guys go to seminaries in America?



The very least we have is a student council, which is mainly used for a number of things: a bullet on your college resume, collecting money for donation drives, and giving the illusion of a democracy, to name a few.
How odd.

BTW, I'm talking on the pre-college level. I'm sure there are student rights unions on the university level, but I have to ask, why there isn't one for students on the pre-college level?
I think the USI covers secondary school students too. Someone organised those strikes we went on.

The US is a democracy, no?

No.

As I have heard my own teachers say, and as I have told my own students, out there is a democracy, inside this classroom it's a dictatorship and I'm it.

My friend once got a detention for handing another student his school bag. Both of them stated this to the teacher, whose answer was to write my friend a detention slip. Trust me, ask any American. They have at least one story like this.

Or ask any student, a friend of mine once got detention for sneezing. When it was complained to the school about this he was told it was for disturbing the class.

Actually I once got detention because other people broke the rules, they didn't get any sort of punishment. I was given it for lying to a teacher, when my parents asked how did he lie because I was having a fit over this cause I knew I hadn't lied they replied with "Well he wasn't lying to us, he just wasn't telling us what he wanted to hear". So in other words if I had lied to them and told them what they wanted to hear, I would have never have got in trouble for lying, I would have got a detention for other people's misdeeds but not for what I actually did wrong.

Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect), despite sometimes being obviously arbitrary and unfair.

Yes they can.

No.

you should really be a teacher :D

As I have heard my own teachers say, and as I have told my own students, out there is a democracy, inside this ring it's a dictatorship and I'm it.

behold NERVUN the professional wrestler!

I once got detention because other people broke the rules, they didn't get any sort of punishment. I was given it for lying to a teacher, when my parents asked how did he lie because I was having a fit over this cause I knew I hadn't lied they replied with "Well he wasn't lying to us, he just wasn't telling us what he wanted to hear".

the way I'm reading that is some kids got you in trouble and the teacher didn't believe your story?

Or ask any student, a friend of mine once got detention for sneezing. When it was complained to the school about this he was told it was for disturbing the class.

Actually I once got detention because other people broke the rules, they didn't get any sort of punishment. I was given it for lying to a teacher, when my parents asked how did he lie because I was having a fit over this cause I knew I hadn't lied they replied with "Well he wasn't lying to us, he just wasn't telling us what he wanted to hear". So in other words if I had lied to them and told them what they wanted to hear, I would have never have got in trouble for lying, I would have got a detention for other people's misdeeds but not for what I actually did wrong.

So I'm up about 100 to 4 on the anecdotal evidence front. But keep it up guys, you'll catch me eventually.

you should really be a teacher :D

Actually, during my uni years I was a histology, anatomy and autopsy/pathology amanuensis, and the job I start in less than a month is at a university hospital and my position encompasses supervising a group of medical students in their problem based learning groups. So, literally "been there, done that, doing it tomorrow".

Wait a second. You had the choice to sign a contract? That's nice. Grade 12 and back I was simply forced to go -- by law.

I laughed when I read the title.

"It is better to live one day as a lion than 100 years as a sheep."" — Benito Mussolini

odd that a thug would say that isn't it? and to move onto me spreading wisdom you have to be realistic in life, it isn't fair but not only that its stupid to fight and squabble over things you cannot change

Never said he was thug. I don't believe people are born evil. But that quote really can't account for his fascist rule of Italy.


Like principals, and school boards, and PTAs? The things that already exist?


Ever since when did principals, school boards, or PTAs (which exclude students in meetings BTW) ever represent student interests?


How young do guys go to seminaries in America?


As far as I know, they start recruiting after primary, about 11-12 years of age.


I think the USI covers secondary school students too. Someone organised those strikes we went on.
[/QUOTE]

Not enough. At the very least, I'm calling for an appeals department in schools to review offenses and punishments.

Wait a second. You had the choice to sign a contract? That's nice. Grade 12 and back I was simply forced to go -- by law.

It's not much of a choice when if you don't, they kick you out and they don't even refund your tuition money (in most schools).

I love the smell of teen angst in the morning. Smells like....acne medication

I go to a Catholic school, and generally speaking, when a kid is punished it is for a good reason. 40 kids were expelled Freshman year, but this was due to a drug bust. Trust me, the rights teachers have is one of the primary reasons for the success of college education. Even if it does ruffle a few feathers, it saves the education of everybody else from being stolen by some asshole with an inferiority complex.

Ever since when did principals, school boards, or PTAs (which exclude students in meetings BTW) ever represent student interests?
Since they're all, at some point or other, legal guardians of the students. They're legally required to act in the interest of students/children.



As far as I know, they start recruiting after primary, about 11-12 years of age.
Crazy.
Not enough. At the very least, I'm calling for an appeals department in schools to review offenses and punishments.

Why? Is it really that hard to complain to a principal or school board or whatever?

I love the smell of teen angst in the morning. Smells like....acne medication
You mean napalm?

This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign

A what? Is this a New York thing, I've honestly never heard of such a thing.

Now, I've suffered my fair share of arbitrary punishments, as I've been going to a Catholic school for most of my academic life.

A Catholic school is a private establishment, they can largely do as they like and if you don't like it you don't have to purchase their services.

You mean there isn't one in America? Every university in Ireland has a students union, and there's the Union of Students in Ireland which represents all of them on a national level.

It's rather different in the US. Each university has a "student government", which is a bit different. I'd never heard of a "student union" until I attended university in France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Student_governments_in_the_United_States

At one point in everyone's life, we have all encountered an asshole of teacher. That teacher has, at one point or another, abused or mishandled his/her authority as an educator. Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect), despite sometimes being obviously arbitrary and unfair. This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign, which gives the school and teachers the final say. So I ask, Why can't students challenge punishments? Because the last time I checked, I live in a democracy. And it certainly isn't democratic to have someone arbitrarily decide that I need to be disciplined. Of course, this is where the age-old adage "Do as I say, not as I do," comes in. But why should students continue to accept this system bordering on fascism?

Now, I've suffered my fair share of arbitrary punishments, as I've been going to a Catholic school for most of my academic life. But recently my friend was expelled from a Catholic school (a school for future priests) on the basis that he was "dangerous" because someone interpreted his statement "You guys annoy me so much it makes we want to kill someone." as a threat. BTW this guy is a total WoW and PC nerd. First they suspended him, told him to get a mental examination to deal with his "mental insanity," which he did. When he got a paper stating that he was clearly sane, then they expelled him.

IMO, arbitrary punishment threatens democracy. Students are being indoctrinated to accept arbitrary punishment from an authority figure. So how can adults expect the new generation to uphold their rights and freedoms, when students can't even defend themselves from unfair action taken against them? This goes completely against what the US is founded on. "If it was unpatriotic to question the government, we'd still be English!" (no offense meant to anyone of the UK)

This is just me, but I think that the failure of students to stand up to unfair action affects them as citizens. I suspect a correlation between low voter turnout and the powerlessness as a student to challenge authority. So what I'm really asking is the plausibility of starting a student rights union.
mostly its fine because your parents have decided to send you to a school with this kind of structure and to abide by those rules.

if y'all dont like these rules, there are many other fine schools to choose from that operate under somewhat different ones.

and you may not know the full story on your friend. if his parents didnt make a huge fuss to try and keep him in that school, there is probably much more to the story than you are aware of.

Sorry another thing came to mind. Catholic schools are notorious for getting rid of people that don't fit their mold. There was a school in our region which openly dismissed a teacher who was pregnant out of wedlock. Since they are Private school they have the right (not that is is fair mind you) to make any arbitrary rule they decide is best. For lack of a better word this sucks but those are the rules.

out of wedlock? is this the 21st century or have i time travelled several decades into the past?
If the school was that picky, maybe they didn't like the teacher but couldn't put it in so many words and applied some random excuse to get rid of them.

As to the OP, welcome to humanity. I'm sure if they talked things over with your friend properly and discussed why he still wanted to be there (god knows why you'd go to a catholic school?), they'd maybe change their minds.

You'l probably find the exclusions thing can also be applied to; employment, uni (to a lesser extent), college, dealing with any large institution.
oh and happy hannuka

Since they're all, at some point or other, legal guardians of the students. They're legally required to act in the interest of students/children.


Yeah, but it doesn't make sense to me not to even bother get the students' opinion. How can they make an informed decision when they don't even take into account the people they're going affect?


Why? Is it really that hard to complain to a principal or school board or whatever?

Principal and school boards are mainly for administrative purposes, not really for disciplinary action.

mostly its fine because your parents have decided to send you to a school with this kind of structure and to abide by those rules.

if y'all dont like these rules, there are many other fine schools to choose from that operate under somewhat different ones.

and you may not know the full story on your friend. if his parents didnt make a huge fuss to try and keep him in that school, there is probably much more to the story than you are aware of.

Actually, I choose the school I go to. And it's not exactly practical to just up and move to a new school.

As far as what happened to my friend, it's most likely a misguided attempt to prevent a Columbine or Virginia Tech shoot-out. Which really just goes to show how much they understand students, let alone human beings. Kicking the problem kids out of their school does nothing to the reduce the danger of violence still happening.

I've often heard this. The US is a democracy, no? And yet the education system indoctrinates kids in a clearly anti-democratic fashion. I'm not calling for teacher elections, I'm just asking for a system to check teachers powers.There is. You know that little book that you had to sign off that you read? Yeah...check in there.

I forgot to mention that many parents called the school to complain about him being a threat to their kids. Apparently, they didn't even search his locker, they just suspended him until he got a pysch evaluation.
Welcome to private schools.

Actually, I choose the school I go to. And it's not exactly practical to just up and move to a new school.

As far as what happened to my friend, it's most likely a misguided attempt to prevent a Columbine or Virginia Tech shoot-out. Which really just goes to show how much they understand students, let alone human beings. Kicking the problem kids out of their school does nothing to the reduce the danger of violence still happening.
then you chose a school with those rules. why are you whining about it now?

as i wrote before, unless your friends parents made a huge fuss, there is something going on that you dont know about. so, did his parents make a huge fuss?

Seriously. Its a Catholic school. The students were lucky the teachers didn't get together all the local priests and organize a brutal gang-rape party down at the local church.

Thats the traditional Catholic way to teach kiddies who misbehave a lesson.

then you chose a school with those rules. why are you whining about it now?

as i wrote before, unless your friends parents made a huge fuss, there is something going on that you dont know about. so, did his parents make a huge fuss?

I never whined about my school, IIRC.

Well, they complied when he was suspended to see a therapist and get a mental examination for his "mental insanity." Then he gave in the evaluation that he obviously wasn't mentally insane. Then they said that while he overcame his mental insanity with the therapist so that he could come back to school, unfortunetly he can't come back to school. Oh, and to add insult to injury they called him up after the telephone call saying he got expelled to tell his parents that he was absent. At that point, even I would like nothing more to do with that school.

I never whined about my school, IIRC.

Well, they complied when he was suspended to see a therapist and get a mental examination for his "mental insanity." Then he gave in the evaluation that he obviously wasn't mentally insane. Then they said that while he overcame his mental insanity with the therapist so that he could come back to school, unfortunetly he can't come back to school. Oh, and to add insult to injury they called him up after the telephone call saying he got expelled to tell his parents that he was absent. At that point, even I would like nothing more to do with that school.
have you moved on to a new school yet?

For the record, as an American, I've never ever heard of a seminary taking 11-year-olds in modern times. That's pretty crazy in itself. It also sounds like a truly bizarre seminary, since presumably under the law they'd have to be teaching a high-school curriculum and the priesthood-training curriculum at once. Is it a boarding school or something?

For the record, as an American, I've never ever heard of a seminary taking 11-year-olds in modern times. That's pretty crazy in itself. It also sounds like a truly bizarre seminary, since presumably under the law they'd have to be teaching a high-school curriculum and the priesthood-training curriculum at once. Is it a boarding school or something?

I've heard of people entering the seminary at 13, back in the 1950's.



No, I don't have a joke that goes with that, its just true.

For the record, as an American, I've never ever heard of a seminary taking 11-year-olds in modern times. That's pretty crazy in itself. It also sounds like a truly bizarre seminary, since presumably under the law they'd have to be teaching a high-school curriculum and the priesthood-training curriculum at once. Is it a boarding school or something?

Nope. Actually I made a mistake about the age, its actually 12-13 years of age, but not really much of a difference eh? "Get 'em young, the possibilities are endless."

I've heard of people entering the seminary at 13, back in the 1950's.



No, I don't have a joke that goes with that, its just true.

How coincidental. One of my friends (the one who got a detention for holding the back-pack) goes to a school of that description, Holy Cross. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_High_School_(Flushing))

Here's my friend's school (the one who got expelled), Cathedral Prep Seminar. (http://www.cathedralprepseminary.com/)

Nope. Actually I made a mistake about the age, its actually 12-13 years of age, but not really much of a difference eh? "Get 'em young, the possibilities are endless."



How coincidental. One of my friends (the one who got a detention for holding the back-pack) goes to a school of that description, Holy Cross. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_High_School_(Flushing))

Here's my friend's school (the one who got expelled), Cathedral Prep Seminar. (http://www.cathedralprepseminary.com/)
so youre talking about 2 different schools with 2 different adminstrations and rules...

do you go to catholic school?

taking a look at that link to cathedral prep, they did your friend a favor.

so youre talking about 2 different schools with 2 different adminstrations and rules...

do you go to catholic school?

taking a look at that link to cathedral prep, they did your friend a favor.

Yeah, I go to Catholic school too. *sigh*

I don't have as much trouble as other students because I don't talk as much and try not to make the teacher's job harder than it already is.

And yeah, my friend thought so too.

He told me that they have this thing called "Class Night" which was a Friday afternoon set aside for group activities. But one particular part of a particular Class Night freaked him out. They took the students into a chapel and they started to pray a prayer that priests made every night before going to sleep. What freaked him out was he knew no one knew that prayer but still said it in unison and that if you replaced "God" or "Jesus" with "Satan" it was exactly like a Satanic prayer he saw on the History channel. Prior to this he was a Christian, but now he a staunch atheist (though he retains some right ideas).

Yeah, I go to Catholic school too. *sigh*

I don't have as much trouble as other students because I don't talk as much and try not to make the teacher's job harder than it already is.

And yeah, my friend thought so too.

He told me that they have this thing called "Class Night" which was a Friday afternoon set aside for group activities. But one particular part of a particular Class Night freaked him out. They took the students into a chapel and they started to pray a prayer that priests made every night before going to sleep. What freaked him out was he knew no one knew that prayer but still said it in unison and that if you replaced "God" or "Jesus" with "Satan" it was exactly like a Satanic prayer he saw on the History channel. Prior to this he was a Christian, but now he a staunch atheist (though he retains some right ideas).
creepy.

who knows? after he gets over this experience he may end up as a priest yet*. its good to question your faith. its a big transition from being taught to believe and believing it on your own.




*hopefully not a priest of satan

...They took the students into a chapel and they started to pray a prayer that priests made every night before going to sleep. What freaked him out was he knew no one knew that prayer but still said it in unison and that if you replaced "God" or "Jesus" with "Satan" it was exactly like a Satanic prayer he saw on the History channel. Prior to this he was a Christian, but now he a staunch atheist (though he retains some right ideas).

Sounds like they *might be* closet Satanists - I think that in the US a lot of those ultra religious types are. The big clue would be if they ever have you dancing around a giant statue of Moloch and sacrificing an 'effegy' to 'God' . It's too bad that they made him reject god (imho) -- but I suppose it's better no god than a false one.

Sounds like they *might be* closet Satanists - I think that in the US a lot of those ultra religious types are. The big clue would be if they ever have you dancing around a giant statue of Moloch and sacrificing an 'effegy' to 'God' . It's too bad that they made him reject god (imho) -- but I suppose it's better no god than a false one.

Absolutely. The "No-God" is totally bad ass. See the "Prince of Nothing" Series by Bakker.

Sounds like they *might be* closet Satanists - I think that in the US a lot of those ultra religious types are. The big clue would be if they ever have you dancing around a giant statue of Moloch and sacrificing an 'effegy' to 'God' . It's too bad that they made him reject god (imho) -- but I suppose it's better no god than a false one.
yeah those catholic seminaries are known as satanist enclaves...

its more likely that the history channel program (or maybe actual satanists) took the priests prayer for their own purposes. it being an actual prayer makes it that much more powerful.

yeah those catholic seminaries are known as satanist enclaves...



You never know. I don't have a lot of faith in the catholic church ... if anything it's them and the fundies in the US that have done the greatest damage in recent times to christs message. Didn't jesus say you'll know them by their works? It wouldn't surpirse me in the least if at least some of them really were working for the other team ... but I don't want to jack this thread.

Err, student rights.. WTF students have no rights -stop being emo- and get used to it.

WTF students have no rights -stop being emo- and get used to it.


lol

You can't be serious.

Sorry your right. I have the right to write 3 term papers every semester, read 500 pages a wk, I have the right to sleep deprivation, I have the right to work all day at a 4 hr a day job and get barely a living wage... I have lots of rights actually.

I don't think I had any really bad teachers....*ponders*....nope, all my teachers have been pretty okay. Sure some have been strict, but I've never had an "an asshole of a teacher".

Sorry your right. I have the right to write 3 term papers every semester, read 500 pages a wk, I have the right to sleep deprivation, I have the right to work all day at a 4 hr a day job and get barely a living wage... I have lots of rights actually.

Those are decisions made on your own part. Arbitrary disciplinary actions (such as punishing a whole class with detention when only a few are responsible) are not.

EDIT:

I don't think I had any really bad teachers....*ponders*....nope, all my teachers have been pretty okay. Sure some have been strict, but I've never had an "an asshole of a teacher".

You'll get one eventually. Trust me.

You have a personal choice. You can walk out of detention. You'll probably get expelled but then you haven't really lived until you've been expelled from a couple of high schools.

You have a personal choice. You can walk out of detention. You'll probably get expelled but then you haven't really lived until you've been expelled from a couple of high schools.

Yes, everyone does have a personal choice. But it seems half-assed to me to put an innocent student in that situation.

It's not much of a choice when if you don't, they kick you out and they don't even refund your tuition money (in most schools).
If you don't like private schools and how they are run, don't spend the money on them.

If you don't like private schools and how they are run, don't spend the money on them.

I will spend money if you will post a picture of you in your cat-tholic-schoolgirl dress.

Yeah it's a pretty shitty situation. ...But it's actually your folks fault. You should take it up with them - I assume they are the ones making you go to a shitty catholic school ... In any-case all high schools I've been to were pretty shitty and you'll have to get your grade 12 somewhere. You'll just have to get thorough it - then once your free you get choose and live in your own personal self-made hell.

I will spend money if you will post a picture of you in your cat-tholic-schoolgirl dress.
Somehow I don't think it's MONEY you'll spend.... :D

...but here.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Katganistan/cat_prep.jpg

Somehow I don't think it's MONEY you'll spend.... :D

Ooh! Oooooh! Kat said something dirty! Kat said something dirty!

Diiiiirty! Woooh!

Somehow I don't think it's MONEY you'll spend.... :D

It's not his fault; he's a Cat-aholic.
Hmm, that seemed funnier when it was in my head.

I will spend money if you will post a picture of you in your cat-tholic-schoolgirl dress.

They are the sexiest uniforms on the face of the earth. Well, that and those Nazi SS uniforms.

Yes, everyone does have a personal choice. But it seems half-assed to me to put an innocent student in that situation.
while i dont recommend doing anything that will get you expelled, it IS valuable to make the calculation of what small protest is worth doing (that wont get you expelled). there is no sense going through life following all the rules just because they are rules.

It's not his fault; he's a Cat-aholic.
Hmm, that seemed funnier when it was in my head.

I feel the same way about my Christoher Walken impression.

They are the sexiest uniforms on the face of the earth. Well, that and those Nazi SS uniforms.
hmmmmmmm

what kind of person is turned on by both?

You're right; I'm sorry.
I should never have mentioned money. ;)

hmmmmmmm

what kind of person is turned on by both?

um... me

...there is no sense going through life following all the rules just because they are rules.

Thats a good point. Probably better to break all the rules than try to follow them all... In the end it's impossible so don't even try. Just start f*ing s*t up a little bit at a time every single day. They can't put you in jail for misdemeanors...

while i dont recommend doing anything that will get you expelled, it IS valuable to make the calculation of what small protest is worth doing (that wont get you expelled). there is no sense going through life following all the rules just because they are rules.

I agree with what you're saying entirely. But rules can be changed, provided the game is played. After all, "If you cannot follow the rules, you cannot play the game."

I agree with what you're saying entirely. But rules can be changed, provided the game is played. After all, "If you cannot follow the rules, you cannot play the game."
yeah but is THIS the game you want to play?

um... me
kinda BI innit?

IMO, arbitrary punishment threatens democracy. Students are being indoctrinated to accept arbitrary punishment from an authority figure. So how can adults expect the new generation to uphold their rights and freedoms, when students can't even defend themselves from unfair action taken against them? This goes completely against what the US is founded on. "If it was unpatriotic to question the government, we'd still be English!" (no offense meant to anyone of the UK)

This is just me, but I think that the failure of students to stand up to unfair action affects them as citizens. I suspect a correlation between low voter turnout and the powerlessness as a student to challenge authority. So what I'm really asking is the plausibility of starting a student rights union.

Ever think that might be deliberate?

Come on, the last thing the government and the <1000 or so rich people who actually control the American nation and own the politicians is a population of free thinking people who stand up for themselves.

No, you know what they want? Obedient Workers! People just smart enough to do work well enough and not so smart or thoughtful that they realize that they have no real say in government and are manipulated by a small conglomerate of media companies which dictate their thought patterns.

It's called conditioning, people don't become sheep by nature, it takes careful conditioning though the school system which destroys any notion of independence in favor of obedience and submissiveness and allows these 1000 or so rich people who own the politicians to continue to own the politicians by manipulating the people with the twin pillars of education and the 'news' media.

kinda BI innit?

not at all... *I'll* wear the SS uniform you can wear the school girl outfit :p

not at all... *I'll* wear the SS uniform you can wear the school girl outfit :p
hahahaha

oh turns you on in THAT way....

whole nother story.

Ever think that might be deliberate?

Come on, the last thing the government and the <1000 or so rich people who actually control the American nation and own the politicians is a population of free thinking people who stand up for themselves.

No, you know what they want? Obedient Workers! People just smart enough to do work well enough and not so smart or thoughtful that they realize that they have no real say in government and are manipulated by a small conglomerate of media companies which dictate their thought patterns.

It's called conditioning, people don't become sheep by nature, it takes careful conditioning though the school system which destroys any notion of independence in favor of obedience and submissiveness and allows these 1000 or so rich people who own the politicians to continue to own the politicians by manipulating the people with the twin pillars of education and the 'news' media.

I've made the connection. Of course, it also helps to shackle those people to debt.

...well if you want to wear the SS uniform and have me wear the school girl outfit - I'm game for that as well. Just as long as you tie me up, "rape" me, call me your b*ch.

...well if you want to wear the SS uniform and have me wear the school girl outfit - I'm game for that as well. Just as long as you tie me up, "rape" me, call me your b*ch.
hahahahha are you SURE thats not BI in some way?

I've made the connection. Of course, it also helps to shackle those people to debt.
yeah if you want to be free go to college without taking student loans.

I've made the connection. Of course, it also helps to shackle those people to debt.

Easily, what better way to keep them working hard so they don't get fired and loose everything they bought on credit.

Yay! People agree with me, that means I'm not overly cynical.

I've made the connection. Of course, it also helps to shackle those people to debt.

Just a tip. You can avoid a huge student debt if you study abroad. I'm studying in Germany right now...

hahahahha are you SURE thats not BI in some way?

Not at all. Even if you *ss f*k me with a d*ld* ... as long as your a girl its not gay.

Not at all. Even if you *ss f*k me with a d*ld* ... as long as your a girl its not gay.
whoa thats a freaky image eh?

Not at all. Even if you *ss f*k me with a d*ld* ... as long as your a girl its not gay.
Y*r *se of as*icks c*nf*ses me.

whoa thats a freaky image eh?

Yeah we should probably stop now. ...I'll probably freak you out.

Easily, what better way to keep them working hard so they don't get fired and loose everything they bought on credit.

Yay! People agree with me, that means I'm not overly cynical.

When you start referring to tin foil hats as UAV Jammers, then you have something to boast about.

BTW, take a look at Tony Benn. (http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tony_Benn) He's got a good idea about how the world works.

Y*r *se of as*icks c*nf*ses me.
man in SS uniform, girl in catholic school girl uniform. girl is using strapon on the man.

kinky.

Y*r *se of as*icks c*nf*ses me.

I th*k *ts p*rf*ctly f*king cl**r

Not at all. Even if you *ss f*k me with a d*ld* ... as long as your a girl its not gay.

Ever had a prostate massage?

I th*k *ts p*rf*ctly f*king cl**r

W*t?? :wink:

man in SS uniform, girl in catholic school girl uniform. girl is using strapon on the man.

kinky.

The catholic school girl uniform just works any way you use it.

Ever had a prostate massage?

When do they do that anyway? Was it 30 or 40?

The catholic school girl uniform just works any way you use it.
*stops naughty hijack of thread*

When do they do that anyway? Was it 30 or 40?

Any age. It's actually pretty awesome.

*stops naughty hijack of thread*

Don't stop! It's getting to the best part!

So....students...have the right...to a prostate massage...bought on credit...from somebody educated overseas.

Okay, I'll buy that.

*stops naughty hijack of thread*

Yeah good idea ...it's getting out of control. My tip about studying abroad is a good one btw. I pay 500 a semester tuition + expenses (which are quite a bit) here in Germany but It's still much better than my old Uni in Canada (where I'm from) And unless you actually want to become a doctor or a layer or somthing profitable like that It's probably not a good idea to saddle yourself with a huge student debt.

So....students...have the right...to a prostate massage...bought on credit...from somebody educated overseas.

Okay, I'll buy that.

How much would that cost?

So....students...have the right...to a prostate massage...bought on credit...from somebody educated overseas.

Okay, I'll buy that.

especially if their wearing either a school girl outfit or an SS uniform.

*sorry couldn't resist ... punish me? :fluffle:*

Yeah good idea ...it's getting out of control. My tip about studying abroad is a good one btw. I pay 500 a semester tuition + expenses (which are quite a bit) here in Germany but It's still much better than my old Uni in Canada (where I'm from) And unless you actually want to become a doctor or a layer or somthing profitable like that It's probably not a good idea to saddle yourself with a huge student debt.

Its not really good for "a doctor or a layer" either. I have friends that attended relatively inexpensive lay schools, and now they have to lay some pretty crappy jobs, like doc review.

How much would that cost?

You live in LA. Take I-5 South until people don't speak English anymore. Then pass through into Mexico. Ask for Adelitas. Lots of those girls have degrees, and eventually you'll find one from overseas.

especially if their wearing either a school girl outfit or an SS uniform.

*sorry couldn't resist ... punish me? :fluffle:*

The worst part is, there probably was some "Flower of Young German Womanhood" section of the Hitler Youth or something, that had a get-up that would fit the bill.

Kat wouldn't wear it, though. She doesn't like anything in Earth tones.

especially if their wearing either a school girl outfit or an SS uniform.

*sorry couldn't resist ... punish me? :fluffle:*

The girl with the ss uniform doing it to a tied up Baldwin?

Yes but at least you have a way to pay it off if your relatively employable. If you study something more abstract like say - oh i dunno of the top of my head ... linguistics - well you don't want to have a lot of debt thats for sure.

At one point in everyone's life, we have all encountered an asshole of teacher. That teacher has, at one point or another, abused or mishandled his/her authority as an educator.I have yet to encounter one of these teachers, and I'm on my last eighteen weeks of high school (year 12).

You live in LA. Take I-5 South until people don't speak English anymore. Then pass through into Mexico. Ask for Adelitas. Lots of those girls have degrees, and eventually you'll find one from overseas.

Zona Norte?

I have yet to encounter one of these teachers, and I'm on my last eighteen weeks of high school (year 12).

Then you are extremely extremely lucky. Go buy a bunch of lottery tickets ... your probably just one of *those* people.

Zona Norte?

Yeah, but you have to be 18 to go into Adelitas, I think. If you're 18 though, get whatcha like. Do whatcha like. Drink Whatcha like.

You'll have so many women, people will call you "Bitches". No disrespect, grandad.

Then you are extremely extremely lucky. Go buy a bunch of lottery tickets ... your probably just one of *those* people.Not eighteen yet, but I want to buy a few on my birthday.

And people always say that. I'm just "magically lucky". I really, really don't understand this concept. :confused:

Yes but at least you have a way to pay it off if your relatively employable. If you study something more abstract like say - oh i dunno of the top of my head ... linguistics - well you don't want to have a lot of debt thats for sure.

Wait, I though the tongue-slingers were in high demand now, doing vocal analyst shit, translation, intel, whatever?

Wait, I though the tongue-slingers were in high demand now, doing vocal analyst shit, translation, intel, whatever?Linguist are in high-demand, as long as you speak a well-known language. (Chinese Mandarin, Japanese Nihongo, Spanish (Not sure which dialect.), Farsi, Dari, Arabic (Same as Spanish), etc.)

Linguist are in high-demand, as long as you speak a well-known language. (Chinese Mandarin, Japanese Nihongo, Spanish (Not sure which dialect.), Farsi, Dari, Arabic (Same as Spanish), etc.)

Meh mabey... I'm more into the theoretical aspects of language though. Logical inferencing building mental models, AI, that sort of sh*t. I'm a bit too far *out there* to be very employable in the private sector - I think... I certainly will try but I have my doubts.

Meh mabey... I'm more into the theoretical aspects of language though. Logical inferencing building mental models, AI, that sort of sh*t. I'm a bit too far *out there* to be very employable in the private sector - I think... I certainly will try but I have my doubts.

If you're really good, can you get tapped for private sector bank crypto, or even some kind of high end applied linguistics in marketing or something?

Or you could learn to pronounce the strange symbols on this metallic tablet dredged up from the ocean that I stole from Miskatonic University when they threw me out for dry humping the cat statues in the Egyptian wing...

...bank crypto, or even some kind of high end applied linguistics in marketing...

Non of thats really my style - too practical. I'm on a program which searches linguistic trees using monadic second order logic right now. (this is could actually be usfull in AI ) I'm really into logical modeling of discourse... The crazy part about this stuff is that to an extent it does work - the problem is that I work in an area where problems are defined in whats called ps-space time. To be of much practical value computers still need to be a lot faster than they are now. ...and I also need to learn a lot more math than I know now :p

I think i just killed the thread... doh.

Non of thats really my style - too practical. I'm on a program which searches linguistic trees using monadic second order logic right now. (this is could actually be usfull in AI ) I'm really into logical modeling of discourse... The crazy part about this stuff is that to an extent it does work - the problem is that I work in an area where problems are defined in whats called ps-space time. To be of much practical value computers still need to be a lot faster than they are now. ...and I also need to learn a lot more math than I know now :p

That's do-able. And if you can't find work in what you want, the math is salable in other industries.

I've seen guys (and women) spin some pretty specialized stuff into corp work...few of my friends from over in physics got picked up to do financial crunching in England.

You should write a program that gives automated yet heuristically meaningful responses to understaffed suicide hotlines, but responds only in limericks.

You should write a program that gives automated yet heuristically meaningful responses to understaffed suicide hotlines, but responds only in limericks.

That I could do. I actually did try to write a very simple 'psychologist' program in Prolog. It blew up all the time though because I tried to make it actually handle multiple readings of ambiguities

it's late... g'night all.

At one point in everyone's life, we have all encountered an asshole of teacher. That teacher has, at one point or another, abused or mishandled his/her authority as an educator. Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect), despite sometimes being obviously arbitrary and unfair. This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign, which gives the school and teachers the final say. So I ask, Why can't students challenge punishments? Because the last time I checked, I live in a democracy. And it certainly isn't democratic to have someone arbitrarily decide that I need to be disciplined. Of course, this is where the age-old adage "Do as I say, not as I do," comes in. But why should students continue to accept this system bordering on fascism?

Now, I've suffered my fair share of arbitrary punishments, as I've been going to a Catholic school for most of my academic life. But recently my friend was expelled from a Catholic school (a school for future priests) on the basis that he was "dangerous" because someone interpreted his statement "You guys annoy me so much it makes we want to kill someone." as a threat. BTW this guy is a total WoW and PC nerd. First they suspended him, told him to get a mental examination to deal with his "mental insanity," which he did. When he got a paper stating that he was clearly sane, then they expelled him.

IMO, arbitrary punishment threatens democracy. Students are being indoctrinated to accept arbitrary punishment from an authority figure. So how can adults expect the new generation to uphold their rights and freedoms, when students can't even defend themselves from unfair action taken against them? This goes completely against what the US is founded on. "If it was unpatriotic to question the government, we'd still be English!" (no offense meant to anyone of the UK)

This is just me, but I think that the failure of students to stand up to unfair action affects them as citizens. I suspect a correlation between low voter turnout and the powerlessness as a student to challenge authority. So what I'm really asking is the plausibility of starting a student rights union.

Life is not fair, deal with it...

I used to teach high school and now I'm a teaching assistant while in grad school... Students have rights to safety and a free education... For people that generally don't pay taxes and don't add much to society, I say you're getting a free lunch as it is.

You're going to have people lord over you for the rest of your life and you're going to be treated unfairly... Administrators treat teachers unfairly all the time... It's a fact of life, deal with it.

Linguist are in high-demand, as long as you speak a well-known language. (Chinese Mandarin, Japanese Nihongo, Spanish (Not sure which dialect.), Farsi, Dari, Arabic (Same as Spanish), etc.)

*hopes French linguists are in high demand*

Life is not fair, deal with it...

Probably the truest thing in this thread.

*hopes French linguists are in high demand*Aren't you in the military? (ARG, IIRC.) Have you taken the DLPT?

Aren't you in the military? (ARG, IIRC.) Have you taken the DLPT?

I'm just in the regular Guard, and they don't pay us extra for languages unless we're in an area where the language is spoken (M-Day, not AGR). That said, I've volunteered to go to Djibouti if at all possible, but it doesn't seem likely. Of course, when I was in Iraq (I got back to Michigan a few weeks ago) I threatened to take my truck to Lebanon as they speak French there, but for some reason I suspect they'd have stopped paying me once I disappeared...

edit: M-Day may be an MIARNG term, each state's Guard has it's own jargon.

I'm just in the regular Guard, and they don't pay us extra for languages unless we're in an area where the language is spoken (M-Day, not AGR). That said, I've volunteered to go to Djibouti if at all possible, but it doesn't seem likely. Of course, when I was in Iraq (I got back to Michigan a few weeks ago) I threatened to take my truck to Lebanon as they speak French there, but for some reason I suspect they'd have stopped paying me once I disappeared...

edit: M-Day may be an MIARNG term, each state's Guard has it's own jargon.I think it's a specific-area jargon, never heard it before.

And active duty soldiers get a $400 bonus for maintaining proficiency in a needed foreign language.

This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign, which gives the school and teachers the final say.

Woah woah woah....what? Dont make statements like this as if this is how it is all over the US. No such things exist for many schools (this is, honostly, the first I have heard of such foolishness). Besides, it would do jack, because unless youre 18, this "contract" is not legally binding.

You don't live in a democracy, and if you did, you wouldn't be old enough to have those rights anyway.
Catholic schools are private. They can let in and kick out anyone they want. They have the right to refuse service.
If you have legitimate concerns about rights being violated, you can seek legal representation.

Not enough. At the very least, I'm calling for an appeals department in schools to review offenses and punishments.

In my state, they're still trying to decide whether I'll have a job next year or they'll get rid of kindergarten. But I'm sure the very pressing issue of forming a counsel to review unfair detentions is on their list.

You don't live in a democracy, and if you did, you wouldn't be old enough to have those rights anyway.
Catholic schools are private. They can let in and kick out anyone they want. They have the right to refuse service.
If you have legitimate concerns about rights being violated, you can seek legal representation.

Okay, but what if my Catholic school was receiving funds from the state?

linky (http://capwiz.com/nyscatholicconference/issues/alert/?alertid=12035501)

Woah woah woah....what? Dont make statements like this as if this is how it is all over the US. No such things exist for many schools (this is, honostly, the first I have heard of such foolishness). Besides, it would do jack, because unless youre 18, this "contract" is not legally binding.

Well, the guardian also has to sign.

I think it's a specific-area jargon, never heard it before.

And active duty soldiers get a $400 bonus for maintaining proficiency in a needed foreign language.

Actually, French (when I looked about 2 years ago) was in the same tier as Arabic, Farsi, Chinese and Russian. Unfortunately, there isn't much French being spoken in Iraq so they said even if I got a 3/3 (which is likely) they wouldn't pay me a dime.

Actually, French (when I looked about 2 years ago) was in the same tier as Arabic, Farsi, Chinese and Russian. Unfortunately, there isn't much French being spoken in Iraq so they said even if I got a 3/3 (which is likely) they wouldn't pay me a dime.French is in the same tier as Spanish, now. (According to the 2008 Presidio language system.)

Well, the guardian also has to sign.

Well then, your parents seem to agree that the judgement of the teachers and staff is to be trusted.

Thus your opinion is...how should I say...irrelevent?


If your rights really were being violated, Id be singing a different tune. But youre basically saying "OMG I GOTZ A DETENTION FER TALKING AND IT WAS LIK TOTLY UNFAIRZ LOLS!!1!"

Schools are already under funded and under staffed, with teachers and staff being over worked. Lets not add to that by creating some little committee to determine if little Jenny should have really gotten a lunch detention for passing a note in class or if it "was, lik, totly unfair!1!"

passing a note in class! <changes into SS uniform/> That little b*ch jenny is gonna pay!

passing a note in class! <changes into SS uniform/> That little b*ch jenny is gonna pay!

Hand cuff her and spank her. Maybe get some candle wax. Oh, and...wait...I mean...


Damn.

So I'm up about 100 to 4 on the anecdotal evidence front. But keep it up guys, you'll catch me eventually.

You know just as much as me that anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove anything, and just what the fuck are you going on about. But see I can make up numbers too, so let's see about 400 kids in my school every year about 25% would get this type of crap so that's 100 times 5 years ok so I am now beating you 504 to 100. But regardless, you and your friend were proberbly goody-two shoes that sucked up to your teachers at every chance you got. :)

the way I'm reading that is some kids got you in trouble and the teacher didn't believe your story?

Well kinda what happened is that a couple of students violated their terms of use and I was near by, somehow because of that I got in trouble because I was telling the truth and not the story they wanted me to tell them, so I got detention because I refused to lie to them.

A what? Is this a New York thing, I've honestly never heard of such a thing.

At my school we had a contract to sign one for the general entry to the school and one to be allowed to access the schools computers.

I used to teach high school and now I'm a teaching assistant while in grad school... Students have rights to safety and a free education... For people that generally don't pay taxes and don't add much to society, I say you're getting a free lunch as it is.

Are you saying that Alabama has no indiscriminatory taxes?

I was in an SU, and I can tell you now that most students deserve nothing but contempt. Stupid, stupid demand after stupid, stupid demand.

Now, it deeply irritates me that students cannot challenge punishments given by the school (detentions, suspensions, expulsions, ect), despite sometimes being obviously arbitrary and unfair. This is for the most part (at least in the US) due to a contract that students must sign, which gives the school and teachers the final say. So I ask, Why can't students challenge punishments?

I could cite so much administrative case law to contradict this statement that it hurts. Wood v. Strickland comes easily to mind.

I could cite so much administrative case law to contradict this statement that it hurts. Wood v. Strickland comes easily to mind.

Please do, as much as you can.

Wow...insightful.

Don't you notice how strange school is? Upwards of 3000 teenagers enter a building, and for seven hours, they endure a rigorous education process approved by state governments. They get one break for a meal (lunch), lasting roughly 30 minutes. The halls are plagued with overhead speakers, possibly to promote propaganda, and at least twice a week, they hear the headmaster's (principal's) voice (announcements), but only once every so often do they actually see him/her. They are forced to take certain classes, including training camp (ie PE =D), They are forced to follow every whim of their superiors (teachers), as within state law. They must dress a certain way (dress code, or even uniforms), they all share one identity that they flaunt over other similiar institutions (mascot). They cannot step outside the guidelines or they are severly punished (detentions, ISS, etc.).

The scariest thing: when posed the question: "What did you do today?" All 3000 students reply, "Nothing."


That was fun to write. Of course, it's a satire of what school really is. I only mentioned the bad points, but it's still a creepy thought.