NationStates Jolt Archive

A state election board on Monday will announce Democrat Al Franken has defeated Republican incumbent Norm Coleman in Minnesota's U.S. Senate race, state officials told CNN Sunday.

A board will say Al Franken won the U.S. Senate race by 225 votes, Minnesota's secretary of state says.

The canvassing board on Monday will say a recount determined Franken won by 225 votes, Secretary of State Mark Ritchie told CNN.

With this win, it puts the democrats at a 59 seat majority. One short of the 60 seat necessary to block a filibuster, but still higher than most pundits predicted, who expected a 56-58 seat senate. Dems did lose Georgia in a run off, which was their other long shot chance at winning, but, in addition to Minnesota seat, also pulled off another close race, upsetting Ted Stevens of Alaska, who appeared that he would win re-election despite being convicted on several felony counts.

The Coleman camp has indicated that they will challenge the results however. So, what do you all make of this?

Oy vey!!!!! Woooooo hooooo!!!!!!!!!!!

I think the Democrats need to be careful. Electing people like Al Franken just isn't going to sit well with a lot of people...I mean, seriously, what kind of qualifications does he really have to be a Senator? The Democrats need competent candidates with broad experience in relevant fields to really produce meaningful legislation and to distinguish themselves, and I don't think people like Al Franken are going to do that.

While I definitely don't mind seeing someone sharing many of his views in office, I just don't think it's going to play out as much more than political fodder for the GOP. This will be especially true if the Democrats fail to achieve much in the next four years, and the stage may be set for a resurgent Republican party unless they can avoid falling in to that kind of trap.

No, you're right. We don't need another Lieberman.

The Force will always balance out

Yep. Your in NS2 world 53, aren't you?

I think the Democrats need to be careful. Electing people like Al Franken just isn't going to sit well with a lot of people...I mean, seriously, what kind of qualifications does he really have to be a Senator? The Democrats need competent candidates with broad experience in relevant fields to really produce meaningful legislation and to distinguish themselves, and I don't think people like Al Franken are going to do that.

While I definitely don't mind seeing someone sharing many of his views in office, I just don't think it's going to play out as much more than political fodder for the GOP. This will be especially true if the Democrats fail to achieve much in the next four years, and the stage may be set for a resurgent Republican party unless they can avoid falling in to that kind of trap.
if he's good enough for the people of minnesota, he's good enough.

God only knows about those votes...

if he's good enough for the people of minnesota, he's good enough.

And gosh darn it, people like him.

Most. Maybe.

And gosh darn it, people like him.

ever so slightly more than 50% of the electorate does at any rate.

So what's the next move in the courts? I don't think this is the last we'll hear of this election.

I think the Democrats need to be careful.

It's Minnesota. They elected Jesse Ventura, too.

Jesse Ventura's cool, though. Al Franken? Not so much.

Coleman is going to file a lawsuit and this is going to drag on, and on, and on....

I had a teacher named Ms. Coleman in school who was a total bitch. Hence, I automaticly take Franken's side.

Who?

I don't like people named Coleman.

Is Frankin someone you met in a bar, and then he made a bet that Al Franken would win the Senate seat? You really need to stop betting against the Democrats, Neo, it doesn't seem to work for you.

It's Minnesota. They elected Jesse Ventura, too.
They elected him as governor, which puts him in the same ranks of California's Arnold Schwarzenneger, Virginia's George Allen, etc. Senate seats tend to be less silly, as they draw national attention, and more significant, as they affect the whole nation directly.

Is Frankin someone you met in a bar, and then he made a bet that Al Franken would win the Senate seat? You really need to stop betting against the Democrats, Neo, it doesn't seem to work for you.


They elected him as governor, which puts him in the same ranks of California's Arnold Schwarzenneger, Virginia's George Allen, etc. Senate seats tend to be less silly, as they draw national attention, and more significant, as they affect the whole nation directly.

Don't forget Mark Sanford of SC, no celebrity, but a total deush(?).

I think the Democrats need to be careful. Electing people like Al Franken just isn't going to sit well with a lot of people...
The same FOX News/neocon pundit worshipers that wouldn't have supported him, or any Democrat, to begin with.

I mean, seriously, what kind of qualifications does he really have to be a Senator?

I imagine the same as any other Congressman...

if he's good enough for the people of minnesota, he's good enough.

You mean the same state that elected a pro wrestler as governor?

So, what do you all make of this?
Well, I can make a hat, or a flower, or...

...What?

Ok, I'll stop now...

I think that the fat lady hasn't sung yet on this election. The GOP has already stated that they will not let Franklin be seated (And given the mess with the appointed senator from IL. the Democrats really don't have a leg to stand on in objecting) until the whole mess plays out in the courts. That's going to take time and until then, both sides will be sniping at each other and accusing each other of voter fraud and other dirty tricks. It's Florida all over again, but this one will last a number of weeks or months longer.

It's Florida all over again

Except the recount actually worked, the Supreme Court didn't step in on partisan lines, and eventually the guy who actually got the most votes will be in the seat.

As for Franken's "qualifications", that's such a load of horseshit and it's the same horseshit from the same people who were throwing around horseshit about Obama's qualifications. He made a living lambasting politics and making jokes about the American political process. I imagine he has more in depth opinions and knowledge about American politics than many junior senators.

I think the Democrats need to be careful. Electing people like Al Franken just isn't going to sit well with a lot of people...I mean, seriously, what kind of qualifications does he really have to be a Senator? The Democrats need competent candidates with broad experience in relevant fields to really produce meaningful legislation and to distinguish themselves, and I don't think people like Al Franken are going to do that.

While I definitely don't mind seeing someone sharing many of his views in office, I just don't think it's going to play out as much more than political fodder for the GOP. This will be especially true if the Democrats fail to achieve much in the next four years, and the stage may be set for a resurgent Republican party unless they can avoid falling in to that kind of trap.

Wow! That's a lot of preemptive blame on Franken!

So he's bringing down the whole Democratic party because they won't find the magic wand to fix 8 years of Dubya and Penis Cheney in 4 years. That is special. If Republicans do make a neocomeback a la W, I'll smile at the dark joke that is the fate of this country. I honestly won't give a damn at that point. If Democrats do magically fix everything, golly gee that's awesome! So either way I'm calm. Could you cut the alarms though, they're annoying.

Except the recount actually worked, the Supreme Court didn't step in on partisan lines, and eventually the guy who actually got the most votes will be in the seat.

As for Franken's "qualifications", that's such a load of horseshit and it's the same horseshit from the same people who were throwing around horseshit about Obama's qualifications. He made a living lambasting politics and making jokes about the American political process. I imagine he has more in depth opinions and knowledge about American politics than many junior senators.

Yeah, but he's no Arnold, and certainly no W.

Wow! That's a lot of preemptive blame on Franken!

So he's bringing down the whole Democratic party because they won't find the magic wand to fix 8 years of Dubya and Penis Cheney in 4 years. That is special. If Republicans do make a neocomeback a la W, I'll smile at the dark joke that is the fate of this country. I honestly won't give a damn at that point. If Democrats do magically fix everything, golly gee that's awesome! So either way I'm calm. Could you cut the alarms though, they're annoying.

You should know full well that the Republicans are masters of making mountains out of molehills; that is their particular strategy, and one that is very effective when used properly. The pressure on the Democrats is so great that they can't afford PR gaffes that would give the Republicans a window of opportunity; I can already see them painting the party as one of out-of-touch celebrities, empty rhetoric and corrupt political dynasties, and it will only get worse should there be any hiccups in the Democratic Party's platform agenda going in to the next four years.

I see they kept counting, and re-counting, and re-re-counting until they found a number they liked. I predict that if he does win out in the end he'll make some mention of the 'Wellstone legacy' or some such.

I see they kept counting, and re-counting, and re-re-counting until they found a number they liked. I predict that if he does win out in the end he'll make some mention of the 'Wellstone legacy' or some such.

Typical.

Do you have any idea how a recount with ballot challenges works? An initial machine count is done, and if it's within the recount margin (1% or so, varies by state), they do a hand recount, and challenge any ballots that might have been misread by the machines. BOTH sides have representatives and the recount board throws some out, decides some are intended one way, and some the other. It wasn't constant re-counting, it was canvassing and deciding the intent of about 1500 ballots that were not machine-readable but deserved to be counted.

You should know full well that the Republicans are masters of making mountains out of molehills; that is their particular strategy, and one that is very effective when used properly. The pressure on the Democrats is so great that they can't afford PR gaffes that would give the Republicans a window of opportunity; I can already see them painting the party as one of out-of-touch celebrities, empty rhetoric and corrupt political dynasties, and it will only get worse should there be any hiccups in the Democratic Party's platform agenda going in to the next four years.

hiccups compared to the paralyzing seizures of the last 8 years. I'm past the point of caring if many people are stupid enough to believe in the neocon dream again. If it happens, good, fate spoke, end of argument.

Typical.

Typical of...what, really? You left that bit out.

[Condescending blather...oh here's the good bit:]deciding the intent of about 1500 ballots

'Deciding the intent'...that's a good phrase. It's almost as good as 'We'll take that under advisement' or 'take care of him and see he gets what he deserves'(although that last is generally used by over-the-top Bond villians or similar such).

Who?

Him, Al Franken.

if he's good enough for the people of minnesota, he's good enough.
That's the thing thou8gh, he's not good enough for the people of Minnesota. Most Minnesotans did not vote for Al Franken. He's going to claim that the people's voices are finally being heard and at a national level Democrats will be trying to paint this as an overwhelming majority of people siding with them and taking bac the country. The truth is that most Minnesotans would not be satisfied with whoever won this seat and while the Democrats have manipulated the system to give them lots of seats, many of the races they won this election were by slim margins and they'll probably lose those in the next few elections, especially if they fail to do much of anything with their majorities as has been the case since 2006.

Typical of...what, really? You left that bit out.

[Condescending blather...oh here's the good bit:]

'Deciding the intent'...that's a good phrase. It's almost as good as 'We'll take that under advisement' or 'take care of him and see he gets what he deserves'(although that last is generally used by over-the-top Bond villians or similar such).

I'm not sure about this particular electoral process, not being from that neck of the woods, but a common 'spoil' is to mark your paper voting for a certain party, as a whole... and then vote for a specific candidate (from the same party) as an additional strike.

Even though the party and politician match, the ballot paper may count as 'unreadable'... because the party-AND-candidate checks throw it out.

A human observer looking at the same ballot can immediately see that the voter is selecting a one-party-ticket, and has also marked their preferred candidate. Thus, the intent is clear - even though the machine flagged it.


It's just an example - I don't know if that's exactly what happened in this race. I'm just pointing out that 'deciding the intent' is not euphemistic - it's what the panel actually does.

That's the thing thou8gh, he's not good enough for the people of Minnesota. Most Minnesotans did not vote for Al Franken. He's going to claim that the people's voices are finally being heard and at a national level Democrats will be trying to paint this as an overwhelming majority of people siding with them and taking bac the country. The truth is that most Minnesotans would not be satisfied with whoever won this seat and while the Democrats have manipulated the system to give them lots of seats, many of the races they won this election were by slim margins and they'll probably lose those in the next few elections, especially if they fail to do much of anything with their majorities as has been the case since 2006.

The Democrats have 'manipulated the system'? By the sneaky and underhanded process of convincing more people to vote for them than for the current discredited regime?

I'm not sure that's really 'manipulating' anything...

I don't see the Republicans going down without a fight on this one

The Democrats have 'manipulated the system'? By the sneaky and underhanded process of convincing more people to vote for them than for the current discredited regime?

Exactly. When a democrat wins after a thorough and painstaking recount, it's manipulating the system. When a republican wins the presidency by a few hundred votes in one state by a supreme court decision split down partisan lines while losing the national vote by half a million, it's the will of the people.

Don't you know ANYTHING?

That's the thing thou8gh, he's not good enough for the people of Minnesota. Most Minnesotans did not vote for Al Franken. He's going to claim that the people's voices are finally being heard and at a national level Democrats will be trying to paint this as an overwhelming majority of people siding with them and taking bac the country. The truth is that most Minnesotans would not be satisfied with whoever won this seat and while the Democrats have manipulated the system to give them lots of seats, many of the races they won this election were by slim margins and they'll probably lose those in the next few elections, especially if they fail to do much of anything with their majorities as has been the case since 2006.

how the fuck do you "manipulate the system" in a state wide election? this isn't a House seat, there's no gerrymandering of districts going on. It was a state election. He won it. Sure "most Minnesotans did not vote for Al Franken" but the truth is, more Minnesotans voted for him than anyone else.

And that's all that matters.

Who?

Some American politician we've never heard of, obviously! :D

He's good enough, he's smart enough and doggone it, people like him. :)

Electing people like Al Franken just isn't going to sit well with a lot of people...I mean, seriously, what kind of qualifications does he really have to be a Senator? The Democrats need competent candidates with broad experience in relevant fields to really produce meaningful legislation and to distinguish themselves, and I don't think people like Al Franken are going to do that.

Yeah. Next thing you know, they'll start electing people whose only real qualification is their expertise on the athletic field. I mean really, who needs a bunch of jocks in the Senate? Lord only knows that you don't learn anything about politics while throwing a ball back and forth. It's the worst kind of popularity contest crapola to perpetuate that sort of high school and college mentality. We can probably get Senator Bill Bradley to sponsor a bill banning such professions from Senate consideration. Maybe former Rep Jack Kemp will come out of retirement to endorse it.

As for entertainers like Franken and Jesse Ventura, they should be banned too. I hear that Governor Schwarzenegger is currently working up the Ronald Reagan Memorial Hollywood Ban Plan to prevent that sort of travesty from ever again occurring in California politics. We surely don't need somebody like Tina Fey pretending to represent the American voter!

Yeah. Next thing you know, they'll start electing people whose only real qualification is their expertise on the athletic field. I mean really, who needs a bunch of jocks in the Senate? Lord only knows that you don't learn anything about politics while throwing a ball back and forth. It's the worst kind of popularity contest crapola to perpetuate that sort of high school and college mentality. We can probably get Senator Bill Bradley to sponsor a bill banning such professions from Senate consideration. Maybe former Rep Jack Kemp will come out of retirement to endorse it.

As for entertainers like Franken and Jesse Ventura, they should be banned too. I hear that Governor Schwarzenegger is currently working up the Ronald Reagan Memorial Hollywood Ban Plan to prevent that sort of travesty from ever again occurring in California politics. We surely don't need somebody like Tina Fey pretending to represent the American voter!

I'm sure congressman Bono would have signed if he were alive today.

I'm sure congressman Bono would have signed if he were alive today.

At this rate, we'll have Weird Al Yankovic as President.

You mean the same state that elected a pro wrestler as governor?
yes.

if jesse ventura was good enough for minnesota then he was also good enough.

its not particularly my business who gets elected in other states.

The split between Franken and Coleman is so close, it's almost a shame it can't be called a tie, and they both get sent to the Senate. They could take turns sitting in each other's lap. Wouldn't that be worth it? ;)

That's the thing thou8gh, he's not good enough for the people of Minnesota. Most Minnesotans did not vote for Al Franken. He's going to claim that the people's voices are finally being heard and at a national level Democrats will be trying to paint this as an overwhelming majority of people siding with them and taking bac the country. The truth is that most Minnesotans would not be satisfied with whoever won this seat and while the Democrats have manipulated the system to give them lots of seats, many of the races they won this election were by slim margins and they'll probably lose those in the next few elections, especially if they fail to do much of anything with their majorities as has been the case since 2006.
sorry but he got a slim majority.

if the rest of the minnesotans couldnt be bother to vote, or voted for some unelectable candidate, or whatever it is that you think somehow taints mr frankens victory, then he was in some way STILL acceptable to the majority of minnesota voters. if he wasnt wanted, he wouldnt have won.

The split between Franken and Coleman is so close, it's almost a shame it can't be called a tie, and they both get sent to the Senate. They could take turns sitting in each other's lap. Wouldn't that be worth it? ;)

They could take turns giving each other a reacharound.

While the current system says if you win by one vote, you win, I do find that rather vague.

Even if you only win by a couple hundred votes out of millions, that's a statistically insignificant margin. You should be required to win by a statistically significant margin in any election.

They could take turns giving each other a reacharound.

While the current system says if you win by one vote, you win, I do find that rather vague.

Even if you only win by a couple hundred votes out of millions, that's a statistically insignificant margin. You should be required to win by a statistically significant margin in any election.
yeah but how long do you want it to take to get someone elected?

i do think that if no one gets 50% of the votes there should be an automatic run off. minority winners suck.

The Roman Emperor Caligula made his horse Incitatus a Senator.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

The Roman Emperor Caligula made his horse Incitatus a Senator.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

Your failure of an argument might not have been quite such a spectacular failure if it weren't for the fact that the idea that Caligula made his horse a consul wasn't more or less considered entirely fictional. The historians who suggested this idea, Suetonius and Cassius Dio most notably, were strongly motivated by their emperors to create elaborate and fanciful stories about the former emperor, with little regard to truth. There are no records from Caligula's era that suggest Incitatus was anything more than a very spoiled horse.

Your failure of an argument might not have been quite such a spectacular failure if it weren't for the fact that the idea that Caligula made his horse a consul wasn't more or less considered entirely fictional. The historians who suggested this idea, Suetonius and Cassius Dio most notably, were strongly motivated by their emperors to create elaborate and fanciful stories about the former emperor, with little regard to truth. There are no records from Caligula's era that suggest Incitatus was anything more than a very spoiled horse.

shhh, don't let facts get in the way of such beautiful indignation. It's wonderful to behold, really.

At this rate, we'll have Weird Al Yankovic as President.

At least that way we'd have someone already qualified to be a clown before he took the position. Using the last 8 years as a measure, it could be argued Weird Al has the 'experience' for the position that Obama is said to have lacked.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

Chill baby. They fixed the mistake. They have elected a horse's ass, yes... but now Franken will replace him. :D

Your failure of an argument might not have been quite such a spectacular failure if it weren't for the fact that the idea that Caligula made his horse a consul wasn't more or less considered entirely fictional. The historians who suggested this idea, Suetonius and Cassius Dio most notably, were strongly motivated by their emperors to create elaborate and fanciful stories about the former emperor, with little regard to truth. There are no records from Caligula's era that suggest Incitatus was anything more than a very spoiled horse.

Assuming the ancient historians weren't correct, Minnesota has done something nobody could even make up. :p

And Franken remains a horse's ass.

God willing, Coleman's inevitable suit will be resolved in his favor and Stuart Smalley will be sent back to Air America.

Assuming the ancient historians weren't correct, Minnesota has done something nobody could even make up. :p

And Franken remains a horse's ass.

God willing, Coleman's inevitable suit will be resolved in his favor and Stuart Smalley will be sent back to Air America.

so it's your contention that we should ignore the will of the people of Minnesotta?

Oh right right, I forgot, "fort sumpter" etc. etc.

so i read somebody, possibly on the great orange satan, that pointed out that franken getting in makes seating burris marginally more useful to the dems. you see, 3/5 of 98 means you need 59 votes to break a filibuster, while 3/5 of 99 rounds up to 60. thus they'll be nominally down a vote more (assuming straight party votes for most everybody) and need to pick off an additional republican with just franken and not burris.

Assuming the ancient historians weren't correct, Minnesota has done something nobody could even make up. :p

And Franken remains a horse's ass.

God willing, Coleman's inevitable suit will be resolved in his favor and Stuart Smalley will be sent back to Air America.

Franken is a populist candidate, which is a sin or not, depending on opinion. Coleman, on the other hand, actually switched parties to gain political advantage. Franken has made no secret of his politics, Coleman has changed whichever politics were disadvantageous (the man who, in 1993 claimed to be a 'lifelong Democrat' when running for mayor, who helped get Wellstone elected in 96, opposed Wellstone in 2002... once he had GOP backing. The man who campaigned in his earliest days on an anti-war ticket, has been one of the strongest supporters of war in Iraq).

Franken may be a horse's ass (although you haven't said WHY you think that), but Coleman is a whore for political expedience.

Franken may be a horse's ass (although you haven't said WHY you think that)

Because he's a democrat. Duh.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

If by "Senator" you mean "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District", then yes, you are correct.

But since you don't, you're just an idiot.

The Roman Emperor Caligula made his horse Incitatus a Senator.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

Meh, of all the democrats that they could have chosen, why Franken? Honestly, I agree with Mitanni here. We could possibly have another backstabbing here.

If by "Senator" you mean "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District", then yes, you are correct.

But since you don't, you're just an idiot.

What? He's a Senator, not a Congressman.

What? He's a Senator, not a Congressman.

She is a Congresswoman, not a Senator. Perhaps when I said "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" I meant "the U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" not "Al Franken is the U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District"

She is a Congresswoman, not a Senator. Perhaps when I said "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" I meant "the U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" not "Al Franken is the U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District"

What the hell are you talking about?

She is a Congresswoman, not a Senator. Perhaps when I said "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" I meant "the U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" not "Al Franken is the U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District"

Are you trolling? Wtf?

http://www.letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=U.S.+Representative+for+Minnesota%27s+6th+Congressional+District

What the hell are you talking about?

the congresswoman that called for reconstituting the house committee on unamerican activities, and starting its investigations with obama, i presume

What the hell are you talking about?

One of the most evil and offensive smears on the already smeared political landscape, is the "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" - the infamous Michele Bachmann.

That - I believe - is the point being made.

Even if Franken turns out to be worse than useless, NM claiming that Minessota has somehow humiliated itself is laughable, considering Bachmann.

Because he's a democrat. Duh.

Just not up to speed today, am I?

:)

the congresswoman that called for reconstituting the house committee on unamerican activities, and starting its investigations with obama, i presume

Oooooh, see, I missed that part of the dicussion. I thought I didn't. (?)

One of the most evil and offensive smears on the already smeared political landscape, is the "U.S. Representative for Minnesota's 6th Congressional District" - the infamous Michele Bachmann.

That - I believe - is the point being made.

Even if Franken turns out to be worse than useless, NM claiming that Minessota has somehow humiliated itself is laughable, considering Bachmann.

Thank you.

Although Minnesota was the only blue state in '84, so they're not too bad.

Thank you.

Although Minnesota was the only blue state in '84, so they're not too bad.

I don't have any problems with Minessota, per se. It's just, they've elected some real shitbombs in their time. Any company that makes Coleman look good (hey, at least he's not Bachmann, even if he would sell his mother for a Senate seat) is a worry.

Even if Franken turns out to be worse than useless, NM claiming that Minessota has somehow humiliated itself is laughable, considering Bachmann.


Umm, yeah.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SKOLaFyYqOI/AAAAAAAAJ00/YdyOj4tnzJ4/s400/frankenBABY.jpg

Umm, yeah.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SKOLaFyYqOI/AAAAAAAAJ00/YdyOj4tnzJ4/s400/frankenBABY.jpg

What?

i, for one, welcome our new comedian overlords. at least this time it will be intentional.

hey lookit this clown the republicans fielded as a serious candidate for president

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8

i, for one, welcome our new comedian overlords. at least this time it will be intentional.

If Obama screws up, It had better be funnier than Bush. That's hard to top. Let's hope he doesn't missunderestimate.

The Roman Emperor Caligula made his horse Incitatus a Senator.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

I love how the "will of the people" is sacrosanct when New Mitanni agrees with it (see Cal. Props. 22 & 8), but the devil's handmaiden when he doesn't (Obama, Franken).

(Although I will admit NM is not the only one who sometimes feels this way. :wink:)

hey lookit this clown the republicans fielded as a serious candidate for president

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8

hey hotwife look at this clown

rudy giuliani for president of the united states of america

http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/9898/giulianitrumpdragdu9.jpg


I love how the "will of the people" is sacrosanct when New Mitanni agrees with it (see Cal. Props. 22 & 8)

see the 2000 presidential election

Snip.

How DARE the people of Minesotta disagree with you, innit? Their wills should be ignored in your favor. :rolleyes:

Umm, yeah.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SKOLaFyYqOI/AAAAAAAAJ00/YdyOj4tnzJ4/s400/frankenBABY.jpg
Yep, that proves it. Franken is WAY MORE dignified than that Bachman nut.

The Roman Emperor Caligula made his horse Incitatus a Senator.

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

Good job, Minnesota. You've beclowned yourselves for all time.

Do you have any specific problems with Franken, or is your tripe-laden argument "he's not a Republican"? Wait -- who'm I quoting? Never mind. I know the answer.

Typical of...what, really? You left that bit out.

Yet you seem to have understood perfectly. Typical as in typical of either a sour grapes reaction or some other unfounded load of crap.

[Condescending blather...oh here's the good bit:]

Aaaaand there's the proof. Thanks.

'Deciding the intent'...that's a good phrase. It's almost as good as 'We'll take that under advisement' or 'take care of him and see he gets what he deserves'(although that last is generally used by over-the-top Bond villians or similar such).

What is your problem? The canvassing board is comprised of representatives from the Elections Division of the County Auditor (or it is in Washington, not sure about MN), the Secretary of State, and BOTH campaigns.

If you're going to disagree, please do so without mischaracterizing my laying out how the fucking process ACTUALLY WORKS as "condescending blather".

Yep, that proves it. Franken is WAY MORE dignified than that Bachman nut.

Yes it does. She eats babies. He's acting as bait.

Yep, that proves it. Franken is WAY MORE dignified than that Bachman nut.

I'm still trying to work out what the problem was supposed to be.

What would the headline read: 'Career Comedian Dresses Funny. Police Baffled"...?

I love how the "will of the people" is sacrosanct when New Mitanni agrees with it (see Cal. Props. 22 & 8), but the devil's handmaiden when he doesn't (Obama, Franken).

(Although I will admit NM is not the only one who sometimes feels this way. :wink:)

Well that's because Real Americans™ voted on Propositions 8 and 22 while the Orcs and Uruk-Hai all rigged the elections in favor of Sauron Obama and Al Franken, duh.

FOOOOOORT SUMTERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

I'm still trying to work out what the problem was supposed to be.

i think dk is just reminiscing about the quiet dignity brought to the senate by 'tubes' stevens and the gentleman from idaho with the wide stance. luckily he's still got 'diapers' vitter to remind him of the good old days.

I'm still trying to work out what the problem was supposed to be.

What would the headline read: 'Career Comedian Dresses Funny. Police Baffled"...?
They wouldn't be the only ones.

The Democrats have 'manipulated the system'? By the sneaky and underhanded process of convincing more people to vote for them than for the current discredited regime?

I'm not sure that's really 'manipulating' anything...

Well actually if that is what he means then he is correct in saying that people have been manipulated. After all in order to convince them they would have used marketing techniques, by manipulating them into thinking that they would be the right candidate and/or the other person would be worse. Of course the republicans do this as well as every other political party but whatever.

Umm, yeah.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SKOLaFyYqOI/AAAAAAAAJ00/YdyOj4tnzJ4/s400/frankenBABY.jpg
Franken stains.

I'll get me coat...

Assuming the ancient historians weren't correct, Minnesota has done something nobody could even make up. :p

And Franken remains a horse's ass.

God willing, Coleman's inevitable suit will be resolved in his favor and Stuart Smalley will be sent back to Air America.

A horse's ass? You know by making light of the situation you're really just mocking your own politics and the seriousness of modern events.

Let's face it, Franken isn't a "clown," he's a government official now - an Agent of the Dark Lord of Mordor!

Umm, yeah.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_hk_cayNIONo/SKOLaFyYqOI/AAAAAAAAJ00/YdyOj4tnzJ4/s400/frankenBABY.jpg

The Uruk-Hai can't be far behind!

Stand! Men of the West!

Coleman is going to file a lawsuit and this is going to drag on, and on, and on....
What'cha talkin' about, Wi... Damaske?

With this win, it puts the democrats at a 59 seat majority. One short of the 60 seat necessary to block a filibuster, but still higher than most pundits predicted, who expected a 56-58 seat senate. Dems did lose Georgia in a run off, which was their other long shot chance at winning, but, in addition to Minnesota seat, also pulled off another close race, upsetting Ted Stevens of Alaska, who appeared that he would win re-election despite being convicted on several felony counts.

The Coleman camp has indicated that they will challenge the results however. So, what do you all make of this?
With clowns like this being elected (on both sides of the aisle), I'm in favor of repealing the 17th amendment.

It's not such a bad idea -- the House to represent the People and the Senate to represent the States.

With clowns like this being elected (on both sides of the aisle), I'm in favor of repealing the 17th amendment.

Take a looksie:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a0/111th_US_Congress_House_of_Reps.png

Y'know, REALLY not a bad idea from where I'm standing. The net result would be about a 66-34 Democrat majority. Maybe a 67-33, or 68-32, depending on how Idaho went.

Well actually if that is what he means then he is correct in saying that people have been manipulated. After all in order to convince them they would have used marketing techniques, by manipulating them into thinking that they would be the right candidate and/or the other person would be worse. Of course the republicans do this as well as every other political party but whatever.

While the Democrats did run a pretty spot-on campaign this time round, the best 'choices' they made were 'not-being-George-W-Bush', and 'not-running-the-campaign-the-GOP-did'... and you could argue those 'choices' were already made by someone else.

A lot of people were pissed at Bush, specifically, and Republican politics, generally. The Democrats didn't really have to do much marketing... they just had to turn up.

With clowns like this being elected (on both sides of the aisle), I'm in favor of repealing the 17th amendment.


Because Democracy is bad?

Or... only when it makes you the minority?

I'm still trying to work out what the problem was supposed to be.

What would the headline read: 'Career Comedian Dresses Funny. Police Baffled"...?

or perhaps "actor acts, republicans outraged"

or perhaps "republicans outraged"

yase

or perhaps "actor acts, republicans outraged"

I wonder why is it that no one raised a peep about the fact that the REPUBLICAN Governor of California ac...

Oh, wait, THAT wasn't acting. Carry on.

depending on how Idaho went.

except that idaho's state legislature rivals utah's for republican domination. but yeah, the dems control something like 27 state's legislatures to the republicans' 19ish.

There goes the neighborhood!

Minnesota has gone Caligula one better by making a horse's ass a Senator.

At this rate, we'll have Weird Al Yankovic as President.
What's so bad about having a comedian as a politician?

What's so bad about having a comedian as a politician?

Franken at least knows he's a comedian. Self-awareness is always a nice thing to have in a Senator.
I'm surprised the election was a close as it was; Obama beat McCain in Minnesota by a 10%+ margin. Does anyone have any idea why nearly 300,000 people did not vote for the Democrat for the Senate?

What's so bad about having a comedian as a politician?

To NM, every Democrat is Caligula.

Franken at least knows he's a comedian. Self-awareness is always a nice thing to have in a Senator.
I'm surprised the election was a close as it was; Obama beat McCain in Minnesota by a 10%+ margin. Does anyone have any idea why nearly 300,000 people did not vote for the Democrat for the Senate?

Because Obama was not Bush. That connected strongly.

Democrats not being Republicans connected well, also... but not quite AS well.

Hence the difference.

I'm surprised the election was a close as it was; Obama beat McCain in Minnesota by a 10%+ margin. Does anyone have any idea why nearly 300,000 people did not vote for the Democrat for the Senate?
I don't know specifically in this case, but folks often vote one way in a general election and another way in a local election (realising that Congress isn't always 'local', but you see what I mean).

Call it hedging your bets, or whatever.

To NM, every Democrat is Caligula.

Except President Elect Barack Obama of course.

:D

http://lordoftheringsonline.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/lotr-sauron.jpg

"I PROMISED CHANGE AND YOU, THE PEOPLE, WILL HELP ME BRING IT ABOUT!"

I'm surprised the election was a close as it was; Obama beat McCain in Minnesota by a 10%+ margin. Does anyone have any idea why nearly 300,000 people did not vote for the Democrat for the Senate?

Coleman is the incumbent, and senatorial elections are really a whole different matter from presidential elections: there need not be anything out of the ordinary for a Senate election to go in the opposite direction of a presidential one.

Because Obama was not Bush. That connected strongly.

Democrats not being Republicans connected well, also... but not quite AS well.

Hence the difference.

I don't know specifically in this case, but folks often vote one way in a general election and another way in a local election (realising that Congress isn't always 'local', but you see what I mean).

Call it hedging your bets, or whatever.

Coleman is the incumbent, and senatorial elections are really a whole different matter from presidential elections: there need not be anything out of the ordinary for a Senate election to go in the opposite direction of a presidential one.
Those all make sense. I guess I assumed Minnesota was more Democratic anyway, making a close election strange. I was wrong, clearly.

I am pretty scared that the DEmocrats in Minnosota just faked those last votes. It was pretty conspicuous how immediatly after the first count was nearing the end, they launched a search for "lost votes" and magically found over 200 votes for Al. I don't really believe they did that, but i wouldn't be to sure about them next time around and they find more "lost ballots" for their candidate.

I am pretty scared that the DEmocrats in Minnosota just faked those last votes. It was pretty conspicuous how immediatly after the first count was nearing the end, they launched a search for "lost votes" and magically found over 200 votes for Al. I don't really believe they did that, but i wouldn't be to sure about them next time around and they find more "lost ballots" for their candidate.

demonRATS stealing an election like they always do

see United States presidential election, 2000 for more LIBERAL ELECTION FRAUD

I am pretty scared that the DEmocrats in Minnosota just faked those last votes. It was pretty conspicuous how immediatly after the first count was nearing the end, they launched a search for "lost votes" and magically found over 200 votes for Al. I don't really believe they did that, but i wouldn't be to sure about them next time around and they find more "lost ballots" for their candidate.

It is kind of weird how votes keep showing up, but I think it's pretty clear by now that it isn't unusual. There were about 3,000 ballots found for our district's congressional race, also very close, days after the election. If these things didn't happen, they wouldn't bother recounting.

Personally, I know with certainty that the Franken campaign will keep making new votes appear from out of thin air for as long as they are empowered to do so by the liberal courts.

Interesting that those same courts rejected the absentee ballots for Coleman - the reason they are afraid to count those is because they are heavily comprised of military voters which would make it that much harder for Franken to win.

Because Democracy is bad?

Or... only when it makes you the minority?

One, because I'm tired of demagogues representing us. Two, because I'm tired of the States rights being trampled on by the federal government. Isn't it odd that Mexico has representation in DC, while New Mexico is unrepresented? Actually, I find it more than odd. I find it sad.

I have no idea who that is (although for some reason I have a vague recollection of someone talking into a mirror and something about "lying liars and lies and whatnot"), but New Mitanni doesn't seem to agree with him, which must mean he's at least semi-sane. So, good on whatever state it was, I already forget.

I have no idea who that is (although for some reason I have a vague recollection of someone talking into a mirror and something about "lying liars and lies and whatnot"), but New Mitanni doesn't seem to agree with him, which must mean he's at least semi-sane. So, good on whatever state it was, I already forget.

Actually, the Stuart Smalley movie was actually fairly decent. Had Vincent D'Onofrio.

One, because I'm tired of demagogues representing us.


What exactly do you (think you) mean by demagogues? Aren't ALL representatives - elected OR appointed - 'demagogues'?


Two, because I'm tired of the States rights being trampled on by the federal government.


Which has what to do with the situation in question? Or anything? 'States Rights' is not an issue that will be 'cured' by removing democracy.


Isn't it odd that Mexico has representation in DC, while New Mexico is unrepresented?


How exactly do you think Mexico is 'represented'?

And, how is New Mexico 'under' represented?


Actually, I find it more than odd. I find it sad.

I find it nonsensical and imaginary.

I wonder why is it that no one raised a peep about the fact that the REPUBLICAN Governor of California ac...

Oh, wait, THAT wasn't acting. Carry on.

No, its because Schvatzenkegger can't run for president.

Its okay to have an actor, as long as he doesn't become president. Like Reagan.

Wait..

No, its because Schvatzenkegger can't run for president.

Its okay to have an actor, as long as he doesn't become president. Like Reagan.

Wait..

The "Wait..." delivery was a REALLY good one. Impressive.

Isn't it odd that Mexico has representation in DC, while New Mexico is unrepresented?

Now I have to change my catch phrase from "Its true, I read it in a Chick Pamphlet" to "Its true, Myrmidonisia posted it".

I wonder why is it that no one raised a peep about the fact that the REPUBLICAN Governor of California ac...


Oh, come on. When you think "dignified statesman," don't you think of this?

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2008/junior.jpg

One, because I'm tired of demagogues representing us. Two, because I'm tired of the States rights being trampled on by the federal government. Isn't it odd that Mexico has representation in DC, while New Mexico is unrepresented? Actually, I find it more than odd. I find it sad.

The idea of States' rights (sic) is a load of nonsense. Governments cannot have rights. People have rights. Governments have power, and every government power is the negation of a right (but this is sometimes for the better-- I am glad that we negate the right to kill each other, for example), and not a right itself.

So, in what way are the people of New Mexico not represented? They have a Congressional delegation, same as any other state, no?

Oh, come on. When you think "dignified statesman," don't you think of this?

http://www.nerve.com/CS/blogs/scanner/2008/junior.jpg

Thanks. ^_^

Actually, the Stuart Smalley movie was actually fairly decent. Had Vincent D'Onofrio.

I don't know... was he naked? Because Law and Order - Criminal Intent only gives me blue balls in that department.

I don't know... was he naked? Because Law and Order - Criminal Intent only gives me blue balls in that department.

No, he's not naked...maybe he gets shirtless in "The Cell".

But speaking as a born again Bible-believing Christian, I shouldn't be indulging your sinful gay fantasies.

He gets kind of BDSM in "Full Metal Jacket"....

You see, I've allowed Jesus into my heart, and so homosexuality is not acceptable.

Too bad he wasn't in Threesome...he could have done Josh Charles in a dorm room, and you could just digitally remove Lara Flynn Boyle...or digitally add a penis to her.

God warns us against men laying with other men in the Flesh, and we should heed what our heavenly father tells us.

I'll go check IMDB and see if there's anything D'Onofrio might be naked in...

The idea of States' rights (sic) is a load of nonsense. Governments cannot have rights. People have rights. Governments have power, and every government power is the negation of a right (but this is sometimes for the better-- I am glad that we negate the right to kill each other, for example), and not a right itself.

So, in what way are the people of New Mexico not represented? They have a Congressional delegation, same as any other state, no?
and just how is mexico represented?

Personally, I know with certainty that the Franken campaign will keep making new votes appear from out of thin air for as long as they are empowered to do so by the liberal courts.

Interesting that those same courts rejected the absentee ballots for Coleman - the reason they are afraid to count those is because they are heavily comprised of military voters which would make it that much harder for Franken to win.
You know that with certainty, do you? Well, you must have some information that proves that the Franken campaign conducted election fraud and that the liberal courts are in collusion with them. I certainly hope you forwarded it to the Minnesota Attorney General so that he can bring a case before the conservative courts, because otherwise, justice would be subverted. It's your duty.

You know, provided you're not just blowing smoke up your own ass.

What exactly do you (think you) mean by demagogues? Aren't ALL representatives - elected OR appointed - 'demagogues'?



Which has what to do with the situation in question? Or anything? 'States Rights' is not an issue that will be 'cured' by removing democracy.



How exactly do you think Mexico is 'represented'?

And, how is New Mexico 'under' represented?



I find it nonsensical and imaginary.
Interesting, but this has nothing to do with the existence or removal of democracy. It has everything to do with the proper balance of power. I happen to agree with James Madison when he wrote in the Federalist papers that that a balance of powers between the branches of government and the levels of government (general, state, and the people) is necessary for stability. Look at #37 through 48 for his discussions of the situation, if you're interested in more detail that my one sentence synopsis.

Mexico has represented itself by establishing an embassy. Duh. Only the population of New Mexico is represented in Congress. The State, itself, has no representation. A State would actually have to hire lobbyists to represent their interests in the federal government -- something unnecessary before the 17th amendment...

Mexico has represented itself by establishing an embassy. Duh.

Which is somehow comparable to the kind "representation" that States have through Senators? Even when those Senators were appointed by legislatures prior the the 17th? Wow. I wonder how Mexico voted on the bailout...


Only the population of New Mexico is represented in Congress. The State, itself, has no representation. A State would actually have to hire lobbyists to represent their interests in the federal government -- something unnecessary before the 17th amendment...

So, Senators, being elected by the populace, don't then proceed to represent the interests of that State? The 17th doesn't give the Governor (who has a little bit of something to do with "the State, itself") the ability to be authorized by the legislature to appoint Senators for vacancies until an election can be held?

So, its a bad thing somehow that Senators represent the populace of the State that elected them, and not "the State, itself". Wow, so much for representative government...

Interesting, but this has nothing to do with the existence or removal of democracy. It has everything to do with the proper balance of power. I happen to agree with James Madison when he wrote in the Federalist papers that that a balance of powers between the branches of government and the levels of government (general, state, and the people) is necessary for stability. Look at #37 through 48 for his discussions of the situation, if you're interested in more detail that my one sentence synopsis.

Mexico has represented itself by establishing an embassy. Duh. Only the population of New Mexico is represented in Congress. The State, itself, has no representation. A State would actually have to hire lobbyists to represent their interests in the federal government -- something unnecessary before the 17th amendment...
thats just silly.

mexico has an official office; new mexico has 5 votes in congress.

which is more representative?

thats just silly.

mexico has an official office; new mexico has 5 votes in congress.

which is more representative?

Whichever state or country makes it sound like he actually has a point, of course.

and just how is mexico represented?

It's funny. I considered responding to this with a joke, saying something like "Well they have an embassy!!!!"

Them Myrm made his post.

It's funny. I considered responding to this with a joke, saying something like "Well they have an embassy!!!!"

Them Myrm made his post.

Now, part of your brain will have to eat itself to avoid living in a world where somebody would post something like that.

I think either way the wind blows in this recount, Minnesota has two of the most competent members in the Senate and I am proud of that. Coleman is somewhat out of favour with the electorate in MN but he, arguably, has done his job. Now the ball is in Franken's court to fulfill Minnesotans' trust in him and prove he can do the job better (but still not better than Klobuchar, who is epic :p).

thats just silly.

mexico has an official office; new mexico has 5 votes in congress.

which is more representative?

the state of new mexico's lobbyists, obviously

the state of new mexico's lobbyists, obviously
we got some!

at least im pretty sure we do

Interesting, but this has nothing to do with the existence or removal of democracy. It has everything to do with the proper balance of power. I happen to agree with James Madison when he wrote in the Federalist papers that that a balance of powers between the branches of government and the levels of government (general, state, and the people) is necessary for stability.


And yet, you would assist this balance of power... by removing the balance of power?

By removing the democratic appointment, you excise 'the people' from the equation. By making the position 'appointed', you'd remove the state, and replace it with nepotism.

You might agree with James Madison. I don't think he agrees with you.


Mexico has represented itself by establishing an embassy.


So, at best, a kind of lobby group.

At worst... a place to store diplomats?


Duh. Only the population of New Mexico is represented in Congress.


As opposed to what... the population and the trees?


The State, itself, has no representation.


How do you figure that? How is an elected representative of a state any LESS representative of that state, than an APPOINTED representative of the state would be?


A State would actually have to hire lobbyists to represent their interests in the federal government -- something unnecessary before the 17th amendment...

Unnecessary then, and bullshit now.

No, he's not naked...maybe he gets shirtless in "The Cell".

But speaking as a born again Bible-believing Christian, I shouldn't be indulging your sinful gay fantasies.

He gets kind of BDSM in "Full Metal Jacket"....

You see, I've allowed Jesus into my heart, and so homosexuality is not acceptable.

Too bad he wasn't in Threesome...he could have done Josh Charles in a dorm room, and you could just digitally remove Lara Flynn Boyle...or digitally add a penis to her.

God warns us against men laying with other men in the Flesh, and we should heed what our heavenly father tells us.

I'll go check IMDB and see if there's anything D'Onofrio might be naked in...

Brilliant representation of the pious version of Two-Face than some religious folks can be.

It's a sinful mockery of decent, God-fearing human beings, damn you!

Brilliant representation of the pious version of Two-Face than some religious folks can be.

It's a sinful mockery of decent, God-fearing human beings, damn you!

Well, it will all soon be better. The Vatican is going to open an embassy with the US, which evidently is representation greater than that of 2 US Senators.

Damn Papists beat us to it.

Well, it will all soon be better. The Vatican is going to open an embassy with the US, which evidently is representation greater than that of 2 US Senators.

Damn Papists beat us to it.

Now all they need is a license to vend, and it'll be Pope Soap on a Rope.

Y'know, fer kids.

Now all they need is a license to vend, and it'll be Pope Soap on a Rope.

Y'know, fer kids.

I think we both need to admit Al Franken wrote better shit than us.

Now all they need is a license to vend, and it'll be Pope Soap on a Rope.

Y'know, fer kids.

But it would have to be quietly transferred to another parish after each use.

I get back from a week long "vacation" and not only is the Franken win epic, but the right wing howling is even more so.

A horse's ass? You know by making light of the situation you're really just mocking your own politics and the seriousness of modern events.

Let's face it, Franken isn't a "clown," he's a government official now - an Agent of the Dark Lord of Mordor!



The Uruk-Hai can't be far behind!

Stand! Men of the West!

We do not know pain. We do not know fear. WE WILL TASTE MAN-FLESH!


FOOOOOORT SUMTERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Awesome. Fucking win.

What exactly do you (think you) mean by demagogues? Aren't ALL representatives - elected OR appointed - 'demagogues'?

Only when theyre black or support the black guy.

Personally, I know with certainty that the Franken campaign will keep making new votes appear from out of thin air for as long as they are empowered to do so by the liberal courts.

Interesting that those same courts rejected the absentee ballots for Coleman - the reason they are afraid to count those is because they are heavily comprised of military voters which would make it that much harder for Franken to win.

Awfully nice of the Liberal Court to take a break from creating rights for gays out of thin air and keeping baby killing legal, dont you think?

sorry but he got a slim majority.
That's still likely t be decided in court. Considering all the ballots that showed up after the polls closed (and should have been rejected along with the overvotes) and were counted there is a possibility that rejected absentee ballots may get counted too. There is also the possibility that the 130 or so missing ballots from Minneapolis may get thrown out (I wonder if the reason they can't be found is that they were scanned twice).

if the rest of the minnesotans couldnt be bother to vote,
According to the MN SoS Minnesotans voted in record numbers but they always say voter turnout is high so who the fuck cares.

or voted for some unelectable candidate,
The only way you can truly waste a vote is by voting for someone you don't really want. Fuck electability.

or whatever it is that you think somehow taints mr frankens victory,
I think the recount was tainted. Franken lost votes during limited random precinct audits. I wonder if he would still have this lead if such audits were conducted statewide.

then he was in some way STILL acceptable to the majority of minnesota voters.
So only a little over 2/5 of the state is a majority when no other single person has significantly more? Las Vegas was founded on glorious bad math, not St. Paul.

if he wasnt wanted, he wouldnt have won.
The winner will likely be decided in court.

has his win actually been declared? last i heard, (as of this/yesterday, morning) he was ahead numerically but there were still judicial review processes pending.

i, of course, hope he does.

We do not know pain. We do not know fear. WE WILL TASTE MAN-FLESH!

Now I think I figured out why NM keeps using Orc and Uruk-Hai imagery to describe Democrats and gays.

:D

With this win, it puts the democrats at a 59 seat majority. One short of the 60 seat necessary to block a filibuster, but still higher than most pundits predicted, who expected a 56-58 seat senate. Dems did lose Georgia in a run off, which was their other long shot chance at winning, but, in addition to Minnesota seat, also pulled off another close race, upsetting Ted Stevens of Alaska, who appeared that he would win re-election despite being convicted on several felony counts.

The Coleman camp has indicated that they will challenge the results however. So, what do you all make of this?

Minnesotans prove once again-"Vote for the Name You KNOW!!", and that cheap celebrity is all you need to get elected.

Minnesotans prove once again-"Vote for the Name You KNOW!!", and that cheap celebrity is all you need to get elected.

Which might work better if Coleman wasn't the incumbent, a former mayor, and a candidate on both the same ticket Franken was fronting AND it's opposition, at various times.

In Minnesota terms, about the only person with higher name recognition than Coleman is Jesus. (Not the mexican yardworker, the other one).

I'm thinking he'll really be a big help with Congress' overall approval rating:rolleyes:

You know that with certainty, do you? Well, you must have some information that proves that the Franken campaign conducted election fraud and that the liberal courts are in collusion with them. I certainly hope you forwarded it to the Minnesota Attorney General so that he can bring a case before the conservative courts, because otherwise, justice would be subverted. It's your duty.

You know, provided you're not just blowing smoke up your own ass.

It's pretty obvious when they decide that one group of ballots can be admitted because it's from a Democratic county and another group of ballots can't because it's from a Republican county, and continue to do so, arbitrarily, until the Democratic candidate has a slim majority, that either the election officials, courts, or media are tainted somehow. My bet is on all three. I shouldn't need proof to make that observation from the sidelines, but I sure hope the Coleman campaign has some.

It's pretty obvious when they decide that one group of ballots can be admitted because it's from a Democratic county and another group of ballots can't because it's from a Republican county, and continue to do so, arbitrarily, until the Democratic candidate has a slim majority, that either the election officials, courts, or media are tainted somehow. My bet is on all three. I shouldn't need proof to make that observation from the sidelines, but I sure hope the Coleman campaign has some.

You don't NEED proof no, but it goes a long way in making you look more "intelligent person with a reasoned opinion" and less "crazy conspiracy theorist kook"

Al Franken/Lewis Black The same in one person is a funny and awsome comedian I like the guy and his veiws make some sence. If Change is what we need then give him a chance we can't get any worse off !!! Bush is leaving the White House Soon OOOORAH !!!

It's pretty obvious when they decide that one group of ballots can be admitted because it's from a Democratic county and another group of ballots can't because it's from a Republican county, and continue to do so, arbitrarily, until the Democratic candidate has a slim majority, that either the election officials, courts, or media are tainted somehow. My bet is on all three. I shouldn't need proof to make that observation from the sidelines, but I sure hope the Coleman campaign has some.
So, in other words, you don't actually know anything. You are just blowing smoke up your own ass, spinning vast conspiracies of enormous state and national organizations all cahooting to disappoint you -- because they (a) have nothing else to do and (b) give such a shit.

You don't NEED proof no, but it goes a long way in making you look more "intelligent person with a reasoned opinion" and less "crazy conspiracy theorist kook"
Also this. ^

That's still likely t be decided in court. Considering all the ballots that showed up after the polls closed (and should have been rejected along with the overvotes) and were counted there is a possibility that rejected absentee ballots may get counted too. There is also the possibility that the 130 or so missing ballots from Minneapolis may get thrown out (I wonder if the reason they can't be found is that they were scanned twice).


According to the MN SoS Minnesotans voted in record numbers but they always say voter turnout is high so who the fuck cares.


The only way you can truly waste a vote is by voting for someone you don't really want. Fuck electability.


I think the recount was tainted. Franken lost votes during limited random precinct audits. I wonder if he would still have this lead if such audits were conducted statewide.


So only a little over 2/5 of the state is a majority when no other single person has significantly more? Las Vegas was founded on glorious bad math, not St. Paul.


The winner will likely be decided in court.
oh pffft.

each of those things was carefully considered in broad daylight. i dont see any reason for them to change now

oh pffft.

each of those things was carefully considered in broad daylight. i dont see any reason for them to change now

Because the liberal won!

Because the liberal won!

Thats because of the liberal baby-eating conspiracy. They only eat conservative babies so there are no new conservative voters. They've been doing it for years but its only just yielding results.

Thats because of the liberal baby-eating conspiracy. They only eat conservative babies so there are no new conservative voters. They've been doing it for years but its only just yielding results.

The way conservative teenagers taught abstinence-only sex education keeps reproducing, those liberal babyeaters must have huge stomachs.

The way conservative teenagers taught abstinence-only sex education keeps reproducing, those liberal babyeaters must have huge stomachs.

Why do you think Im slightly overweight?

It's pretty obvious when they decide that one group of ballots can be admitted because it's from a Democratic county and another group of ballots can't because it's from a Republican county, and continue to do so, arbitrarily, until the Democratic candidate has a slim majority, that either the election officials, courts, or media are tainted somehow. My bet is on all three. I shouldn't need proof to make that observation from the sidelines, but I sure hope the Coleman campaign has some.

Im sure the Republicans involved with the process are really quick to arbitrarily throw out ballots from Republican counties.

You want to back anything you just said up, or are you ready to admit youre just throwing a hissy fit because your party is now more or less considered politically irrelevent?

The way conservative teenagers taught abstinence-only sex education keeps reproducing, those liberal babyeaters must have huge stomachs.

So thats the real reason for abstinence only sex education...

*Updates conspiracy theory*

Much of what I know about Franken is that he's a fantastic salesman for his books, but I really haven't looked that thoroughly into his policies. I'm not from Minnesota, and I really am not all that bothered by how that race winds up. Good luck for him perhaps?

They could take turns giving each other a reacharound.

While the current system says if you win by one vote, you win, I do find that rather vague.

Even if you only win by a couple hundred votes out of millions, that's a statistically insignificant margin. You should be required to win by a statistically significant margin in any election.

Statistical significance does not come into play as you are doing an actual count rather then projecting a trend on a limited survey

Statistical significance does not come into play as you are doing an actual count rather then projecting a trend on a limited survey

I agree, although for close races, an assessment of how accurate the count method (margin for measurement error, rather than statistical inference error) is helpful.

I'm sure the losing side will cry foul no matter what. I do think its unfair to call Franken inexperienced just because he hasn't spent his whole life in an elected position.

I agree, although for close races, an assessment of how accurate the count method (margin for measurement error, rather than statistical inference error) is helpful.

I'm sure the losing side will cry foul no matter what. I do think its unfair to call Franken inexperienced just because he hasn't spent his whole life in an elected position.
Yeah sampling error is always a concern

You know, it's a funny thing. I read some "conservative" websites now and then. Mostly a "know thine enemy" sorta thing (and the angst there these days is delicious). And I've been noticing the sane arguments there that we see here. "repeal the 17th amendment!" "require a majority!" "make it a significant margin!".

And what's funny is, I never saw any of those arguments before this. Where were they when Coleman looked like he would win? Where was this sudden desire to require a decisive victory back in 2000?

In fact, what I find ultimately amusing is that the sum same people who are making these arguments about how we should require a clear majority, now were ones who were so quick to point out that, despite Bush Jr. losing by half a million votes, that "we don't do it that way".

The same people who were screaming about ACORN and the "great threat to our democracy", despite the fact that:

1) there hasn't been a single shred of evidence implicating anyone in ACORN management in a voter registration fraud scheme

2) there hasn't been a single shred of evidence that this voter registration fraud that did get perpetrated by a few individuals resulted in even one single fraudulent vote, and;

3) the only reason the thing came to light in the first place is because ACORN took the initiative and reported registration forms they found suspicious

Are the very same people who, when we pointed out that Bush was going to get elected president despite the very real possibility that Florida voted for Gore, because of a decision made in Bush's favor by a woman that just so happened to be appointed by his brother, and we're conspiracy nutcases.

An election that comes down to a few thousand votes, with the decision not to recount being made by Bush's brother's secretary of state...and we just have sour grapes.

Not a single example of actual voter fraud, and a voter registration fraud scheme exposed BY ACORN ITSELF, OF ITS OWN VOLITION, and the dems stole an election, despite a margin of victory of 9 million votes

You know, it's a funny thing. I read some "conservative" websites now and then. Mostly a "know thine enemy" sorta thing (and the angst there these days is delicious). And I've been noticing the sane arguments there that we see here. "repeal the 17th amendment!" "require a majority!" "make it a significant margin!".

And what's funny is, I never saw any of those arguments before this. Where were they when Coleman looked like he would win? Where was this sudden desire to require a decisive victory back in 2000?

In fact, what I find ultimately amusing is that the sum same people who are making these arguments about how we should require a clear majority, now were ones who were so quick to point out that, despite Bush Jr. losing by half a million votes, that "we don't do it that way".

The same people who were screaming about ACORN and the "great threat to our democracy", despite the fact that:

1) there hasn't been a single shred of evidence implicating anyone in ACORN management in a voter registration fraud scheme

2) there hasn't been a single shred of evidence that this voter registration fraud that did get perpetrated by a few individuals resulted in even one single fraudulent vote, and;

3) the only reason the thing came to light in the first place is because ACORN took the initiative and reported registration forms they found suspicious

Are the very same people who, when we pointed out that Bush was going to get elected president despite the very real possibility that Florida voted for Gore, because of a decision made in Bush's favor by a woman that just so happened to be appointed by his brother, and we're conspiracy nutcases.

An election that comes down to a few thousand votes, with the decision not to recount being made by Bush's brother's secretary of state...and we just have sour grapes.

Not a single example of actual voter fraud, and a voter registration fraud scheme exposed BY ACORN ITSELF, OF ITS OWN VOLITION, and the dems stole an election, despite a margin of victory of 9 million votes

You dont know how this works, do you? Liberal lie, cheat, and steal, because they dont believe in God. They just want to take your money and give it to lazy blacks while killing your babies and allowing fags to fuck each other in public. They want to ban you from owning a Bible and make everyone into an Islamo-Athiest. And they probably are dating Osama Bin Ladin.

Conservatives are honost and love Jesus, and all they want to do is make life better for everyone. They try to help the poor as much as they can, thats why they always give the rich tax cuts. They want peace, which is why they bomb brown people. And most importantly, they love freedom (as long as your not gay). Hence, we must oppose liberal victories even if it means sacrificing our own intellect, consistancy, honosty, and logic to do so.

Get a clue.

Islamo-Athiest.

And...

*HEAD ASPLODE!*

I believe Al Franken stood in 2004 as an independent. This is what I said at the time:
December 2004

The Church Of Bush

Well, the US election is over, and as I write this the attack on Fallujah is under way. What also concerned me, is the extent homophobia played in this election. The religion of George Bush is not Christianity as I understand it, so I’ve put together a version of the Ten Commandments that the President appears to subscribe to.
1.Thou shalt worship only one God, the Almighty US Dollar that is. OK it may have gone down in value a bit lately but my advisors tell me it’s just a blip.
2.Thou shalt not make any graven images. (We don’t do that kind of thing in Texas. It’s what the fags in New England do.)
3.Keep holy the Sabbath day. (It’s all right to blow some holes in Iraq on Sunday. They have their Sabbath on a Friday.)
4.Honour thy father and thy mother. They come in useful on the campaign trail.
5.Thou shalt kill, not unborn babies1 though, because they can’t fight.
6.Thou shalt not commit adultery. (I keep it zipped up, unlike Bill Clinton.)
7.Thou shalt steal, loot countries you invade and award contracts to your buddies.
8.Thou shalt bear false witness. Do you think that if we told the truth about Iraq other countries would back us?
9.Thou shalt not covet they neighbour’s wife. No problem, have you seen that Teresa Kerry? What a dog!
10.Thou shalt kick thy neighbour’s ass, to show him who’s boss.
Not all American Christians support war crimes. Albert Franzen, independent senate candidate for Illinois, quoted a resolution passed by the Northern Illinois Conference of the United Methodist Church:
Appeal to the Government of the United States

“We call upon the government of the United States to:
Plan an orderly transfer of power to legitimate Iraqi leadership under UN security arrangements.
Plan an orderly withdrawal of all US forces, including military contractors (mercenaries) and prison guards and the closing of all US bases in Iraq, in consultation with the UN.
End the privatisation of Iraqi oil, and allow a sovereign Iraq to make all decisions about Iraqi oil and other national resources.
Apologize for any and all instances of violating the Geneva Convention and turn over the investigation and prosecution to the new International Court of Justice.
Offer a multi-billion no-strings-attached humanitarian and economic aid package to a sovereign Iraq, with solicitations to all Coalition partners and to all regional governments to join in this effort.
Resume efforts to defend our nation against all threats within the bounds of our Bill of Rights and stated Values.”
There really wasn’t much difference at all between Bush and Kerry. Interestingly, all the minor candidates, Nader, Constitutional, Green and Libertarian were against the war, but I believe they got about 0.5% between them.


Mi lernas Esperanton. Ĉu vi ĝin parolas?

But it would have to be quietly transferred to another parish after each use.

Bingo.

Which might work better if Coleman wasn't the incumbent, a former mayor, and a candidate on both the same ticket Franken was fronting AND it's opposition, at various times.

In Minnesota terms, about the only person with higher name recognition than Coleman is Jesus. (Not the mexican yardworker, the other one).

I'd bet more Minnesotans can tell you who Al Franken is, than can tell you who the current Governor is, who the OTHER Senator from Minnesota is, who their own Mayor, Congressman, State Rep, etc. etc. are.

Al Franken, after all, was on Saturday Night Live as a member of the Cast, and is a well-known Commedian with best-selling books.

Coleman's just some politician with an 'r' next to his name.

Which might work better if Coleman wasn't the incumbent, a former mayor, and a candidate on both the same ticket Franken was fronting AND it's opposition, at various times.

In Minnesota terms, about the only person with higher name recognition than Coleman is Jesus. (Not the mexican yardworker, the other one).
As Sudova has already pointed out, you're an idiot. There's more to life in Minnesota than what you can glean from the Wikipedia page and the first three returns of a Google search.

I'd bet more Minnesotans can tell you who Al Franken is, than can tell you who the current Governor is, who the OTHER Senator from Minnesota is, who their own Mayor, Congressman, State Rep, etc. etc. are.


You don't know those things?

And you don't think the average Minnesotan would, either?


Al Franken, after all, was on Saturday Night Live as a member of the Cast, and is a well-known Commedian with best-selling books.


I'd heard the name 'Al Franken' before I saw him involved in politics, but I didn't know who he was. Perhaps you find it hard to believe, but there are people in this country that are better versed in politicians than in comedians.


Coleman's just some politician with an 'r' next to his name.

Which shows how little attention you pay, because he's been a remarkably popular figure in Minnesotan politics, and it hasn't always been an "r" next to his name.

You don't know those things?

And you don't think the average Minnesotan would, either?


Actually, as a politics junkie, I do know those things-but most of the people I come into contact with day-to-day through work, going to the store, family gatherings, etc. don't, and that DOES make a difference. Most people don't know as much about their local/state politics, as they do about the National level. More people can (on average) tell you details about celebrity x's wardrobe malfunction, than the name of the person who makes executive decisions for their county. I doubt Minnesotans are any different from the rest of the country in that respect.

Al Franken is a celebrity, Coleman's a Republican, in a year in which the entire mechanism of mass market media has worked to demonize republicans and elevate Celebrities.

As Sudova has already pointed out, you're an idiot.

As you've been told before, flaming is against the rules. Warned.

the entire mechanism of mass market media has worked to demonize republicans

Gee, I wonder what the poor Republicans could have done to earn the scorn of, well, everyone...

Al Franken is a celebrity, Coleman's a Republican, in a year in which the entire mechanism of mass market media has worked to demonize republicans and elevate Celebrities.

Celebrities like... oh, Sarah Palin, you mean?

The "entire mechanism of mass market media" hasn't "worked to demonise republicans". Shitty politics, overt constitution-rape, an incumbent who would have trouble outwitting an otter, and more trouble saying it... and a general disenchantment on the part of voters... 'demonised Republicans'. The media were just the messengers.

Well, except Fox, obviously.


EDIT: Thinking about it - what exactly are you trying to say? That Minnesotans can't remember back to Coleman losing out to Ventura in '99? That Minnesotans (especially the more than a million that backed him) have forgotten his election to the Senate? Surely at LEAST one in every five Minnesotans must be pretty familiar with him, by simple virtue of having already elected him once...?