NationStates Jolt Archive

All because of a fight over chores:

A 12-year-old boy has been found guilty in the United States of murdering his mother following a row over his household chores.

Guess this is a good reason not to keep guns around, huh?

Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7810192.stm)

Remember, guns don't kill people. Bullets, travelling very fast as they leave guns, kill people.

Remember, guns don't kill people. Bullets, travelling very fast as they leave guns, kill people.

But, without accessibility, guns are harmless.

Guns don't kill people, out-of-control, badly-brought-up children with guns kill people.

Mom was deficient in parenting skills.

Boyfriend was irresponsible.

And somewhere the kid got the idea that self-defense meant defending himself from doing his chores.

Ah, family values.

Eight times? Wow.

He got a pistol from a bedroom cupboard and shot Sara Madrid repeatedly.

Yea, great place to keep a gun, in a cupboard. Not in a gun cabinet, under lock and key, and the ammunition in a separate location....

But, without accessibility, guns are harmless.

So are knives and sledgehammers and chainsaws and nunchucks and samurai swords and bat'leths.

But, without accessibility, guns are harmless.

If there'd been more guns in the house, the mother could have defended herself.

Eight times? Wow.
Lizzie Borden took an axe
And gave her mother forty whacks.
And when she saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one.

So are knives and sledgehammers and chainsaws and nunchucks and samurai swords and bat'leths.

I want a bat'leth...

If there'd been more guns in the house, the mother could have defended herself.

*giggles*

If there'd been more guns in the house, the mother could have defended herself.

Fucking. Gold.

I want a bat'leth...

Everyone wants one. :p

I want a bat'leth...

Just check amazon!

http://www.amazon.com/BELANNA-TORRES-ROXANN-BATLETH-TELEVISI/dp/B0018MZ8D8/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=miscellaneous&qid=1231046291&sr=8-1

;)

Guess this is a good reason not to keep guns around, huh?

Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7810192.stm)

Not really, but it merely emphasizes my conclusion that having children is a bad idea. Buying a 911 with the money saved on not having them is better.

Remember, guns don't kill people. Bullets, travelling very fast as they leave guns, kill people.

Actually, only if they hit. Apparently holes kill people.

Actually, only if they hit. Apparently holes kill people.

but not all holes. Some can actually be quite enjoyable.

but not all holes. Some can actually be quite enjoyable.

sarkhaan, you ignorant slut.

sarkhaan, you ignorant slut.

you rang?

[/lurch]

you rang?

[/lurch]


dude, we should catch bbq at soul fire next weekend.

dude, we should catch bbq at soul fire next weekend.Their mac and cheese with the bbq potato chips on top is nothing short of orgasmic. And the corn bread....mmm....

So are knives and sledgehammers and chainsaws and nunchucks and samurai swords and bat'leths.

Indeed. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O30L-2uAmo)

Lizzie Borden took an axe
And gave her mother forty whacks.
And when she saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one.

And then she was acquitted.

Not really, but it merely emphasizes my conclusion that having children is a bad idea. Buying a 911 with the money saved on not having them is better.

Do you mean a 1911?

If you do, since raising a child to the age of 18 can supposedly cost something like $200,000 USD, with today's prices you could almost buy two 1911's.

Unless one of them's a Kimber...

And then she was acquitted.

*smacks on nose with rolled up news paper*

quiet you.

All because of a fight over chores:



Guess this is a good reason not to keep guns around, huh?

Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7810192.stm)

It's certainly a good reason to keep them locked up in a manner that an emotional child can't gain access. This sounds like a crime of passion, rather than one the child would have committed had the child been thinking logically.

All the more reason that if one is going to own guns and have children around, one needs to learn proper storage techniques. Seriously.

*smacks on nose with rolled up news paper*

quiet you.

Someone seriously needs to work that into the rhyme somehow.

Maybe make it into a limerick :p

dude, we should catch bbq at soul fire next weekend.

You're making totally off-topic posts. Spam.

You shouldn't do that. I don't do that.

Is it a fairly wide array of criteria that contribute to whether a minor is charged as an adult? Does it differ widely by State (or country, for my international compatriots here)? State decisions on the matter could run affoul of Federal due process considerations?

It's certainly a good reason to keep them locked up in a manner that an emotional child can't gain access. This sounds like a crime of passion, rather than one the child would have committed had the child been thinking logically.

All the more reason that if one is going to own guns and have children around, one needs to learn proper storage techniques. Seriously.

It was premeditated, according to the article, doesn't that automatically disregard it as a crime of passion?

It's certainly a good reason to keep them locked up in a manner that an emotional child can't gain access. This sounds like a crime of passion, rather than one the child would have committed had the child been thinking logically.

All the more reason that if one is going to own guns and have children around, one needs to learn proper storage techniques. Seriously.

I'm going to be briefly serious and agree. If you can afford the gun, you can afford a decent hand-safe or something better. If the weapon isn't on you, it should be locked down.

And then she was acquitted.

She didn't try to rob a collectibles dealer either.

Do you mean a 1911?

If you do, since raising a child to the age of 18 can supposedly cost something like $200,000 USD, with today's prices you could almost buy two 1911's.

Unless one of them's a Kimber...

No, I own a P7 and a P226 which I both love. I mean a 911 Carrera.

No, I own a P7 and a P226 which I both love. I mean a 911 Carrera.

Ah, cool.

And with luck, your 911 won't ever come home pregnant or get hooked on meth and wind up with you on an episode of A&E's award winning series "Intervention" reading a letter out loud and trying not to cry.

Seriously, though, 1911's are getting expensive...

What the hell......
Do the words "child safe locks" mean nothing anymore? Uy....

Kids need spankings. Sure, assaulting an adult is illegal, but so is keeping that adult locked up against his or her will. You don't see people wanting it to be illegal to ground your children because of some trauma solitary confinement creates.

More and more, it seems like we've got the whole death thing wrong. If a kid accidentally kills himself with a lawn dart, he was clearly too stupid to do mankind any good. Our species is becoming weaker and dumber. Why? Because we're letting the faulty ones reproduce. I mean, people need labels telling them not to play in washing machines or stick their dicks in easy-bakes. That's not a good sign. And niether are the spoiled, homocidal idiots we're creating with our self esteem this and government that.

You don't see people wanting it to be illegal to ground your children

*ahem*
You (http://www.youthrights.org) see (http://www.asfar.org) plenty (http://www.freechild.org) of (http://www.caica.org/) people (http://en.kraetzae.de/) wanting (http://www.libertarianrock.com/) to (http://home.earthlink.net/~mmales/) do (http://www.takingchildrenseriously.com/) so (http://www.cafety.org/).

It was premeditated, according to the article, doesn't that automatically disregard it as a crime of passion?

I have no idea. I'm not a lawyer. I'm not even Jewish!

All because of a fight over chores:



Guess this is a good reason not to keep LOADED AND UNSECURED guns around, huh?

Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7810192.stm)

Fixed it for you.

So are knives and sledgehammers and chainsaws and nunchucks and samurai swords and bat'leths.

All things which I own....

But I don't have a gun, so according to 90% of the Europeans here that makes me a responsible person :).

Disclaimer: 90% was pulled out of my ass.

Ah, cool.

And with luck, your 911 won't ever come home pregnant or get hooked on meth and wind up with you on an episode of A&E's award winning series "Intervention" reading a letter out loud and trying not to cry.

Seriously, though, 1911's are getting expensive...

You can pick up a Rock Island Armory 1911 for less than $400 new. For a little more, you can pick up a Springfield Armory 1911 (lowest I've seen online is $492).

It's when you start upgrading, that they become expensive (they're the AR15 or Ruger 10/22 of the pistol world, meaning highly upgradeable).

Not really, but it merely emphasizes my conclusion that having children is a bad idea. Buying a 911 with the money saved on not having them is better.
Better or not, but certainly more fun!

And they're also very jealous. These little back seats, they're a reminder to you not to have kids. They're threatening you, "If you have a kid, you only have five years before you'll be cleaning my engine and polishing my paintwork."
The kids won't fit any longer, so you'll be selling your 911 to someone younger and shopping for a people carrier.

I think that...

Safe storage of firearm in the good ole USA should be mandated by law and in case such measures are not followed any irresponsible use of the gun will be the fault of the owner and not the user.


That'd change the culture fast, methinks...


btw. Convicted for premeditated murder over killing done because of unfair burden of household chores? WTF?

edit:
And what was his defence lawyer smoking?
The boy's lawyer argued the child did not intend to kill his mother, but only wanted to get back at her for abusing him.

I would've rather gone with complete incapability of understanding the situation which killing someone over having to do the dishes shows.

All because of a fight over chores:



Guess this is a good reason not to keep guns around, huh?


No... this is a reason to require moms to have a gun with them all the time and follow hip shooting courses! ;)

Lizzie Borden took an axe
And gave her mother forty whacks.
And when she saw what she had done
She gave her father forty-one.

Heh, good that. :tongue:

So are knives and sledgehammers and chainsaws and nunchucks and samurai swords and bat'leths.

How many bat'leth related deaths were there in the last year exactly?

So are knives and sledgehammers and chainsaws and nunchucks and samurai swords and bat'leths.

Nunchucks being nunchaku used by Chuck Norris.

If there'd been more guns in the house, the mother could have defended herself.
Is this the Poe's Law of gun control debates?

No, but I agree.

How many bat'leth related deaths were there in the last year exactly?

I'm not sure. I don't know many people who have them. I would think a few though. They're rather dangerous, which is why I keep mine locked up and out of reach of children.

Is this the Poe's Law of gun control debates?

I hope not....but for clarity's sake, I was kidding.

I'm not sure. I don't know many people who have them. I would think a few though. They're rather dangerous, which is why I keep mine locked up and out of reach of children.
Yeah, that thing looks like you'll much rather injure yourself with it than anyone else.

Without a parent, there wouldn't be a child.
Thus, no parent could be killed, as no parent existed, thus the child did not exist.
And the crime could not be... committed?
I'd say blame the parent for actually existing so that the child could come into existence and shoot the parent.

I'm not sure. I don't know many people who have them. I would think a few though. They're rather dangerous, which is why I keep mine locked up and out of reach of children.

I see what you're saying... mandatory bat'leth registration, background check, and 14 day waiting period

Without a parent, there wouldn't be a child.
Thus, no parent could be killed, as no parent existed, thus the child did not exist.
And the crime could not be... committed?
I'd say blame the parent for actually existing so that the child could come into existence and shoot the parent.
However, to retrospectively correct this anomaly would create a paradox, because if the crime never occurred then there would be no reason to go back to prevent it from occurring.

Thus, we must blame the child. For the sake of space-time integrity.

If a kid accidentally kills himself with a lawn dart, he was clearly too stupid to do mankind any good.
Or, he was a child, with an as-yet under-developed sense of self and spatial awareness.

Like what children have.

All because of a fight over chores:



Guess this is a good reason not to keep guns around, huh?

Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7810192.stm)

yeah, forget the fact that the gun was sitting loaded without a trigger guard or any other safety devices in an easy to get to location.

The boy's lawyer argued the child did not intend to kill his mother, but only wanted to get back at her for abusing him.
Eight times? I don't call that accidental.

If there'd been more guns in the house, the mother could have defended herself.

If mommy had arranged for adamantium knives to pop out of her hands when needed she could have done so even better.

Silly mom.

Let's see how the NRA tries to spin this as a call for more guns...

Let's see how the NRA tries to spin this as a call for more guns...

Or excellent marksmanship?

Let's see how the NRA tries to spin this as a call for more guns...

The NRA will probably spin this as to WHY GUN SAFETY EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT!

no triggerguard or other safety device? Gun kept loaded in a drawer? where the child can get to it easily?

The NRA will probably spin this as to WHY GUN SAFETY EDUCATION IS IMPORTANT!

no triggerguard or other safety device? Gun kept loaded in a drawer? where the child can get to it easily?

Put your gun in a time-locked safe, so it will be of great use when the burglar threatens you ! ;)

Put your gun in a time-locked safe, so it will be of great use when the burglar threatens you ! ;)

that's right. dammit.. Theives these days... no sense of courtisey... always stopping by unannounced...

seriously tho. securing the weapon in a simple locked drawer would've prevented that situation.

All because of a fight over chores:



Guess this is a good reason not to keep guns around, huh?

Link. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7810192.stm)

...Or not to have children... There's no way I'm giving up my Desert Eagle for the sake of some brat... Get child locks, for Pete's sake!

Yeah, that thing looks like you'll much rather injure yourself with it than anyone else.

I would assume that someone who didn't know how to handle it would actually do damage to their enemy and themselves. I have a friend who was screwing around with one and actually cut his thigh down to the bone on accident.

...Or not to have children... There's no way I'm giving up my Desert Eagle for the sake of some brat... Get child locks, for Pete's sake!

But how are you going to defend yourself against tyranny if you don't exercise your right to bear children as part of a well organised creche?

Clearly, the mother is partially to blame as she stored the weapon in an easily accessible location; likewise, the perpetrator is guilty of a brutal murder. However, it would be negligent to merely objurgate two individuals as the proximate cause of this incident without understanding the underlying problem in society that led to this tragedy. The legal system treats juvenile crime in a very lenient manner; indeed, the very last sentence of the article was utterly revolting: "Under Arizona law, the boy can be held only until he turns 18 years of age." The death penalty should be applied to all people who commit such heinous crimes, as it is an effective deterrent; a paltry 6 years in a juvenile prison is a risible punishment for such a horrendous transgression. This is nothing less than a travesty of justice.

More and more, it seems like we've got the whole death thing wrong. If a kid accidentally kills himself with a lawn dart, he was clearly too stupid to do mankind any good. Our species is becoming weaker and dumber.
Since when? I would have figured with our advances in medicine, nutrition and education we'd be getting stronger and smarter.
Why? Because we're letting the faulty ones reproduce.
Hooray, eugenics. Everybody loves eugenics.
I mean, people need labels telling them not to play in washing machines or stick their dicks in easy-bakes. That's not a good sign.
People don't need labels. It's just safer to have them than not.
And niether are the spoiled, homocidal idiots we're creating with our self esteem this and government that.
So something to do with self esteem and the government had a hand in this kid killing his mother? How?
Fixed it for you.
I dunno, the boyfriend did say he taught the boy how to use the gun for self defence and emergencies. Maybe the ammo was kept somewhere else but he knew where and how to load it.
Is this the Poe's Law of gun control debates?
Yes.
Yeah, that thing looks like you'll much rather injure yourself with it than anyone else.
That's the idea. To keep them in the hands of true star trek fans who will never ever touch them.
Clearly, the mother is partially to blame as she stored the weapon in an easily accessible location;
Unless the boyfriend decided to keep it there.
likewise, the perpetrator is guilty of a brutal murder.
Yup.
However, it would be negligent to merely objurgate two individuals as the proximate cause of this incident without understanding the underlying problem in society that led to this tragedy. The legal system treats juvenile crime in a very lenient manner;
So how the legal system treats juveniles is partially to blame for this death? How?
indeed, the very last sentence of the article was utterly revolting: "Under Arizona law, the boy can be held only until he turns 18 years of age."
He wouldn't be a juvenile after that, would he?
The death penalty should be applied to all people who commit such heinous crimes, as it is an effective deterrent;
Really? Since when?
a paltry 6 years in a juvenile prison is a risible punishment for such a horrendous transgression. This is nothing less than a travesty of justice.

Which raises the question, should punishment be the goal when sentencing a criminal? I doubt it was in this case, since psychologists argued and the judge agreed that the boy could be rehabilitated in the juvenile system.

....I dunno, the boyfriend did say he taught the boy how to use the gun for self defence and emergencies. Maybe the ammo was kept somewhere else but he knew where and how to load it....

But if the firearm had been secured with a trigger/action lock, and/or secured in a locked drawer, lock box, safe, etc, then the kid wouldn't have been able to access/load the firearm in the first place.

For the record, I am pro-firearms (I like target shooting), but the firearm really should have been stored securely. 12 years old is a little young (IMO) for unsecured access to a firearm.

I think that...

Safe storage of firearm in the good ole USA should be mandated by law and in case such measures are not followed any irresponsible use of the gun will be the fault of the owner and not the user.


That'd change the culture fast, methinks...


btw. Convicted for premeditated murder over killing done because of unfair burden of household chores? WTF?

edit:
And what was his defence lawyer smoking?
The boy's lawyer argued the child did not intend to kill his mother, but only wanted to get back at her for abusing him.

I would've rather gone with complete incapability of understanding the situation which killing someone over having to do the dishes shows.

Six 100$ notes an hour.

Six 100$ notes an hour.

The street value of those is $100 don't you know?