NationStates Jolt Archive

WHAT IF World War 2 was actually started or was started as a result of the United States?
I had this thought the other day, which while it may not make much sense, i still found it quite an interesting idea...

After WW1, there were still many great powers in existence, the US, the British Empire, France and a quickly emerging Soviet Union.
Well, what if in a clever strategy the United States thought to eliminate its rivals in Europe by covertly funding the future Fuhrer of Germany.
Because despite the economic climate in Germany at the time, its still difficult to believe that the German peoples would have been so deluded into willingly voting in what was before a minor political party, with extremely radical ideas.
How did the Nazi party manage to gain such support among the German populace? Perhaps Hitler really was just extremely charismatic and knew how to sway people to his way of thinking, but that only goes so far. He needed resources and money to expand the Nazis operations nationwide across Germany, and where did these resources come from? America!
Think, going by his early speeches before he was even elected, it was terribly obvious that his goals were the conquest of Europe and by funding his regime, the United States could ensure that Nazi Germany would become strong enough to physically exhaust Europe by the wars end (which it almost accomplished).
As the initial shots were fired in Europe, America had managed to avoid physically entering the war, with claim of 'isolationism' and only gave supplies to Nations under threat in Europe. Sure American ships were lost here and there, but what wouldn’t be willing to risk a few naval vessels and the crew within for the prize of becoming the world’s sole Super power?
In the east, the Americans also had there eyes set on prizes in the east. Japan was in the middle of invading China, and where receiving the bulk of these supplies needed for the war effort from the US, after cutting the Japanese off, the Americans knew an attack was imminent and by 'dropping' information, ensured that the Japanese would attack pearl harbour at exactly the right time, to cause enough damage to sway the American minds in favour of war.
With America now at war with Japan, and with a mighty fleet of ships, the Americans began to island hop all the way across the pacific towards Japan.
Meanwhile in Europe, France was lost, Nazi Germany was pushing eastwards, fighting a bloody but successful war against the soviets. And The British had ultimately failed in there attempt to liberate France at the battle Dunkirk.
As all seemed lost for the allied nations of Europe, the British had managed to, against all odds, Win the battle of Britain and maintain control over British skies, thus denying the Germans an easy conquest of Britain. However Britain was left in ruins after this attack and wouldn’t truly recover for many years after the war.
While in the good ol’ US of A. The American scientists were hard at work building the Atom Bomb, which when completed, would provide an unsurpassed military advantage that would prove fundamental in realising Americas dreams...
However things were going badly in Europe, Due to public outcry in America, the US government was forced to send troops to aid the British in retaking France, and against all odds, they succeeded in the D-Day landings, and with many American Military commanders keen to push towards Berlin, the American government had to alter its plans for Europe.
On the other side of Europe, The Soviet Union had managed to win a decisive victory at Stalingrad, and was now slowly pushing westwards and reclaiming and 'liberating' any territories it passed through. Something the Americans most definitely didn’t have in mind.
With the war in the Pacific nearly all but won, all the Americans needed to do were force an unconditional surrender of Japanese forces and occupy Japan. As Japan refused to allow American troops free reign on Japanese soil, the decision was made to show the true power of American military might. The Atom bomb, which promptly caused to the Japanese to raise there arms in defeat.
Meanwhile in Europe, it was now a race between America aided by British and Canadian forces to reach Berlin before the Soviets.
In the end, the war was won, the soviets may have reached Berlin first but Germany was still divided.

The war was won. But the US plans were thwarted.
While the British Empire had collapsed and all other European countries that could have been a threat were in rubble, from the ashes another Superpower emerged that would challenge United States supremacy for another 40 years.
Had everything gone to plan With America has the sole superpower, it could have easily have simply annexed Japan into a US territory, with no one to challenge its claims to the area. And with no one to fight in Europe, who's to say that it wouldn’t have annexed territories in Europe with the promise of rebuilding them once the American flag was being flown over there buildings?

But due to the rise of the Soviet Union, the USA needed to play the good guys, install an independent, pro American democratic government in Japan and West Germany and spend Billions of dollars to rebuild Western Europe in an effort to gain support in order to maintain its position above the Union. Militaraly, economically and technologically.

And so we have an American conspiracy that while it didn’t quite go as planned, in the end America still became to the sole dominant power in the world. Even without territories in Asia or Europe.
Though due to the recent economic crisis, is America’s position threatened?


: If any of you read that, bear in mind that it was just thought that passed through my head while I was going to bed the other night. I still found it an interesting thought though

Block spaced paragraphs, for the sake of my eyes.

tl;dr

the Jews did WWII and the holocaust

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2527/jewspm5.jpg

Thats just another crazy conspiracy thoery; sorry you lose.

Thats just another crazy conspiracy thoery; sorry you lose.

isn't that what politics is all about?

Seems... odd.

There's been loads of ink split over why and how the Nazis got into power.

I agree with SaintB. Still a nice try, though. Khanus could use his spare time better by reading the books of Erich von Däniken or studying the captivating chemtrails theory.

isn't that what politics is all about?

What, lose? Yes.

Block spaced paragraphs, for the sake of my eyes.

Sorry about that, first post in these forums an all



Thats just another crazy conspiracy thoery; sorry you lose.

Well I thought up the whole idea last night, im not saying its credible and i'm not saying I believe it, it was just an idea.


I agree with SaintB. Still a nice try, though. Khanus could use his spare time better by reading the books of Erich von Däniken or studying the captivating chemtrails theory.

May look them up

WHAT IF World War 2 was actually started or was started as a result of the United States?
I had this thought the other day, which while it may not make much sense, i still found it quite an interesting idea...

After WW1, there were still many great powers in existence, the US, the British Empire, France and a quickly emerging Soviet Union.
Well, what if in a clever strategy the United States thought to eliminate its rivals in Europe by covertly funding the future Fuhrer of Germany.
Because despite the economic climate in Germany at the time, its still difficult to believe that the German peoples would have been so deluded into willingly voting in what was before a minor political party, with extremely radical ideas.
How did the Nazi party manage to gain such support among the German populace? Perhaps Hitler really was just extremely charismatic and knew how to sway people to his way of thinking, but that only goes so far. He needed resources and money to expand the Nazis operations nationwide across Germany, and where did these resources come from? America!
Think, going by his early speeches before he was even elected, it was terribly obvious that his goals were the conquest of Europe and by funding his regime, the United States could ensure that Nazi Germany would become strong enough to physically exhaust Europe by the wars end (which it almost accomplished).
As the initial shots were fired in Europe, America had managed to avoid physically entering the war, with claim of 'isolationism' and only gave supplies to Nations under threat in Europe. Sure American ships were lost here and there, but what wouldn’t be willing to risk a few naval vessels and the crew within for the prize of becoming the world’s sole Super power?
In the east, the Americans also had there eyes set on prizes in the east. Japan was in the middle of invading China, and where receiving the bulk of these supplies needed for the war effort from the US, after cutting the Japanese off, the Americans knew an attack was imminent and by 'dropping' information, ensured that the Japanese would attack pearl harbour at exactly the right time, to cause enough damage to sway the American minds in favour of war.
With America now at war with Japan, and with a mighty fleet of ships, the Americans began to island hop all the way across the pacific towards Japan.
Meanwhile in Europe, France was lost, Nazi Germany was pushing eastwards, fighting a bloody but successful war against the soviets. And The British had ultimately failed in there attempt to liberate France at the battle Dunkirk.
As all seemed lost for the allied nations of Europe, the British had managed to, against all odds, Win the battle of Britain and maintain control over British skies, thus denying the Germans an easy conquest of Britain. However Britain was left in ruins after this attack and wouldn’t truly recover for many years after the war.
While in the good ol’ US of A. The American scientists were hard at work building the Atom Bomb, which when completed, would provide an unsurpassed military advantage that would prove fundamental in realising Americas dreams...
However things were going badly in Europe, Due to public outcry in America, the US government was forced to send troops to aid the British in retaking France, and against all odds, they succeeded in the D-Day landings, and with many American Military commanders keen to push towards Berlin, the American government had to alter its plans for Europe.
On the other side of Europe, The Soviet Union had managed to win a decisive victory at Stalingrad, and was now slowly pushing westwards and reclaiming and 'liberating' any territories it passed through. Something the Americans most definitely didn’t have in mind.
With the war in the Pacific nearly all but won, all the Americans needed to do were force an unconditional surrender of Japanese forces and occupy Japan. As Japan refused to allow American troops free reign on Japanese soil, the decision was made to show the true power of American military might. The Atom bomb, which promptly caused to the Japanese to raise there arms in defeat.
Meanwhile in Europe, it was now a race between America aided by British and Canadian forces to reach Berlin before the Soviets.
In the end, the war was won, the soviets may have reached Berlin first but Germany was still divided.

The war was won. But the US plans were thwarted.
While the British Empire had collapsed and all other European countries that could have been a threat were in rubble, from the ashes another Superpower emerged that would challenge United States supremacy for another 40 years.
Had everything gone to plan With America has the sole superpower, it could have easily have simply annexed Japan into a US territory, with no one to challenge its claims to the area. And with no one to fight in Europe, who's to say that it wouldn’t have annexed territories in Europe with the promise of rebuilding them once the American flag was being flown over there buildings?

But due to the rise of the Soviet Union, the USA needed to play the good guys, install an independent, pro American democratic government in Japan and West Germany and spend Billions of dollars to rebuild Western Europe in an effort to gain support in order to maintain its position above the Union. Militaraly, economically and technologically.

And so we have an American conspiracy that while it didn’t quite go as planned, in the end America still became to the sole dominant power in the world. Even without territories in Asia or Europe.
Though due to the recent economic crisis, is America’s position threatened?


: If any of you read that, bear in mind that it was just thought that passed through my head while I was going to bed the other night. I still found it an interesting thought though

This is completely idiotic.

So is quoting the whole massive opening post.

Now, now, no need to be harsh... the guy did say this was all bollocks to begin with. And as far as an exercise of imagination goes, it isn't all that bad. Though it might have been slightly more appropriate in the role-playing section.

This is completely idiotic.

how dare you trample on the memory of the many brave British troops who died invading the beaches of Dunkirk :p

So is quoting the whole massive opening post.

Eh, not really. Thanks.

Well I thought up the whole idea last night, im not saying its credible and i'm not saying I believe it, it was just an idea.


Ok, good. Last thing we need are more conspiracy nuts :)

Eh, not really. Thanks.

Now if you had done a bit of editing, that would have helped. Now you're just a pot calling the kettle black.

Now, now, no need to be harsh... the guy did say this was all bollocks to begin with. And as far as an exercise of imagination goes, it isn't all that bad. Though it might have been slightly more appropriate in the role-playing section.

No, it is beyond bad, it's absolutely terrible.

Out of thin air, he conjures the idea that Hitler needed outside aid to gain power in Germany, and with no basis in fact he randomly decides that the aid came from the United States. The US' evil scheme to be the domininant power in the world is somehow the driving force in this scenario. The entire idea is reminiscent of the plot of a bad B movie on the Sci Fi channel.

Now if you had done a bit of editing, that would have helped. Now you're just a pot calling the kettle black.

Stop being absurd. Quoting his post does not somehow invalidate what I said. Let's keep this on topic, for shit's sake.

No, it is beyond bad, it's absolutely terrible.

Out of thin air, he conjures the idea that Hitler needed outside aid to gain power in Germany, and with no basis in fact he randomly decides that the aid came from the United States. The US' evil scheme to be the domininant power in the world is somehow the driving force in this scenario. The entire idea is reminiscent of the plot of a bad B movie on the Sci Fi channel.

And as i previously said, 'Im not saying its credible and im not saying i believe it, but it was just an idea'

Do you actually think my intention is spout wild conspiracy theories with the intent to sway you all to my cause? No, i only posted it to see what people thought of the idea.

And as i previously said, 'Im not saying its credible and im not saying i believe it, but it was just an idea'

Do you actually think my intention is spout wild conspiracy theories with the intent to sway you all to my cause? No, i only posted it to see what people thought of the idea.

Alright, I think it was a bad idea.

how dare you trample on the memory of the many brave British troops who died invading the beaches of Dunkirk :p
Now we didn't win at Dunkirk by running away.

The idea is patently ridiculous when there are examples of wars the US actually DID generate through such means. The Spanish-American War in 1898, for a start.

No, it is beyond bad, it's absolutely terrible.

Out of thin air, he conjures the idea that Hitler needed outside aid to gain power in Germany, and with no basis in fact he randomly decides that the aid came from the United States. The US' evil scheme to be the domininant power in the world is somehow the driving force in this scenario. The entire idea is reminiscent of the plot of a bad B movie on the Sci Fi channel.

No, it's just the good old meme of thought "cui bono?". The US seems to have had the most to gain, in relative terms, from WW2, hence neither the idea that it was a US scheme, nor the specific choice of the US, are random. They are, however, completely unsubstantiated, hence why this would belong in the RP sections.

No, it's just the good old meme of thought "cui bono?". The US seems to have had the most to gain, in relative terms, from WW2, hence neither the idea that it was a US scheme, nor the specific choice of the US, are random. They are, however, completely unsubstantiated, hence why this would belong in the RP sections.
Not to drag on this whole "it ought to be in the RP section", but this was a hypothetic scenario the guy threw up on this board to see what other people thought of it. He knew it was not the most reality-based of theories, he just wants to see what others think.

Stop being absurd. Quoting his post does not somehow invalidate what I said. Let's keep this on topic, for shit's sake.

I will NOT stop being all I can be, so I'll have to disappoint you there. What I'm trying to convey is that you might have made a slightly stronger point, and only a slightly one, if you had quoted the specific passages that offended you the most. It's just a hint.

Out of thin air, he conjures the idea that Hitler needed outside aid to gain power in Germany, and with no basis in fact he randomly decides that the aid came from the United States. The US' evil scheme to be the domininant power in the world is somehow the driving force in this scenario. The entire idea is reminiscent of the plot of a bad B movie on the Sci Fi channel.

Now that's something I can actually agree with, even though there were quite a few influential people in the States who sympathized with Hitler. Mind you, that was after Hitlers ascend to power.

@OP.

Please please please make sure what you say is correct before you post it,

Dunkirk was not the British aim to liberate France, it was the successful withdrawal of 400,000 British, French and Belgian troops. Which came at the END of the British campaign to hold Belgium and Northern France, but as the French pulled back so fast and co-ordination between the countries disappeared, combined with German effectiveness meant the British had no choice but to pull back too.

Hitler started off small, and failed at first, e.g in Munich, after him and his many henchmen reorganised, said anything to anyone to win votes, get SA and SS bullyboys and spark a right wing revolt against the Weimar over a period of years, he was able to take power peacefully.

As for your theory. Well, it's possible but highly unlikely. I think this goes to show that anything can be said with the benefit of hindsight.

"America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these 'isms' wouldn't today be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government - and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives."

~Winston Churchill, Interview with the New York Enquirer

I will NOT stop being all I can be, so I'll have to disappoint you there. What I'm trying to convey is that you might have made a slightly stronger point, and only a slightly one, if you had quoted the specific passages that offended you the most. It's just a hint.





The entire post offended me.

tl;dr

the Jews did WWII and the holocaust

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/2527/jewspm5.jpg

Ya, the jews wanted to kill off half their population... really?

Ya, the jews wanted to kill off half their population... really?

it wouldn't be the first time the Jew has turned on itself in the name of money and power

@OP.

Historical facts


I know some of my facts were wrong, but when writing I only did a minimal amount of research so as not to interfere with the theory. After all, most conspiracies can be done away with; provided you have the right facts and I didn’t want to defeat myself before I had even begun.


As for your theory. Well, it's possible but highly unlikely. I think this goes to show that anything can be said with the benefit of hindsight.


Aye, I always found it quite fun to make up conspiracies and such about things like that.
Sad I know, but who cares :)

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g52/msbae001/Inspirational%20Posters/America.jpg
Yep, it was all America's fault. :p :D

I say, Skalvia started WWII in order to facilitate its own existence as a Nation!

I suggest the OP reads The Nazi Conscience by Claudia Koonz. It explains Hitler's rise a bit better, as well as the whole ethos of the Nazis.

http://www.amazon.com/Nazi-Conscience-Claudia-Koonz/dp/0674011724

"America should have minded her own business and stayed out of the World War. If you hadn't entered the war the Allies would have made peace with Germany in the Spring of 1917. Had we made peace then there would have been no collapse in Russia followed by Communism, no breakdown in Italy followed by Fascism, and Germany would not have signed the Versailles Treaty, which has enthroned Nazism in Germany. If America had stayed out of the war, all these 'isms' wouldn't today be sweeping the continent of Europe and breaking down parliamentary government - and if England had made peace early in 1917, it would have saved over one million British, French, American, and other lives."

~Winston Churchill, Interview with the New York Enquirer
Churchill being a moron once again.

WHAT IF World War 2 was actually started or was started as a result of the United States?
I had this thought the other day, which while it may not make much sense, i still found it quite an interesting idea...

After WW1, there were still many great powers in existence, the US, the British Empire, France and a quickly emerging Soviet Union.
Well, what if in a clever strategy the United States thought to eliminate its rivals in Europe by covertly funding the future Fuhrer of Germany.
Because despite the economic climate in Germany at the time, its still difficult to believe that the German peoples would have been so deluded into willingly voting in what was before a minor political party, with extremely radical ideas.
How did the Nazi party manage to gain such support among the German populace? Perhaps Hitler really was just extremely charismatic and knew how to sway people to his way of thinking, but that only goes so far. He needed resources and money to expand the Nazis operations nationwide across Germany, and where did these resources come from? America!
Think, going by his early speeches before he was even elected, it was terribly obvious that his goals were the conquest of Europe and by funding his regime, the United States could ensure that Nazi Germany would become strong enough to physically exhaust Europe by the wars end (which it almost accomplished).
As the initial shots were fired in Europe, America had managed to avoid physically entering the war, with claim of 'isolationism' and only gave supplies to Nations under threat in Europe. Sure American ships were lost here and there, but what wouldn’t be willing to risk a few naval vessels and the crew within for the prize of becoming the world’s sole Super power?
In the east, the Americans also had there eyes set on prizes in the east. Japan was in the middle of invading China, and where receiving the bulk of these supplies needed for the war effort from the US, after cutting the Japanese off, the Americans knew an attack was imminent and by 'dropping' information, ensured that the Japanese would attack pearl harbour at exactly the right time, to cause enough damage to sway the American minds in favour of war.
With America now at war with Japan, and with a mighty fleet of ships, the Americans began to island hop all the way across the pacific towards Japan.
Meanwhile in Europe, France was lost, Nazi Germany was pushing eastwards, fighting a bloody but successful war against the soviets. And The British had ultimately failed in there attempt to liberate France at the battle Dunkirk.
As all seemed lost for the allied nations of Europe, the British had managed to, against all odds, Win the battle of Britain and maintain control over British skies, thus denying the Germans an easy conquest of Britain. However Britain was left in ruins after this attack and wouldn’t truly recover for many years after the war.
While in the good ol’ US of A. The American scientists were hard at work building the Atom Bomb, which when completed, would provide an unsurpassed military advantage that would prove fundamental in realising Americas dreams...
However things were going badly in Europe, Due to public outcry in America, the US government was forced to send troops to aid the British in retaking France, and against all odds, they succeeded in the D-Day landings, and with many American Military commanders keen to push towards Berlin, the American government had to alter its plans for Europe.
On the other side of Europe, The Soviet Union had managed to win a decisive victory at Stalingrad, and was now slowly pushing westwards and reclaiming and 'liberating' any territories it passed through. Something the Americans most definitely didn’t have in mind.
With the war in the Pacific nearly all but won, all the Americans needed to do were force an unconditional surrender of Japanese forces and occupy Japan. As Japan refused to allow American troops free reign on Japanese soil, the decision was made to show the true power of American military might. The Atom bomb, which promptly caused to the Japanese to raise there arms in defeat.
Meanwhile in Europe, it was now a race between America aided by British and Canadian forces to reach Berlin before the Soviets.
In the end, the war was won, the soviets may have reached Berlin first but Germany was still divided.

The war was won. But the US plans were thwarted.
While the British Empire had collapsed and all other European countries that could have been a threat were in rubble, from the ashes another Superpower emerged that would challenge United States supremacy for another 40 years.
Had everything gone to plan With America has the sole superpower, it could have easily have simply annexed Japan into a US territory, with no one to challenge its claims to the area. And with no one to fight in Europe, who's to say that it wouldn’t have annexed territories in Europe with the promise of rebuilding them once the American flag was being flown over there buildings?

But due to the rise of the Soviet Union, the USA needed to play the good guys, install an independent, pro American democratic government in Japan and West Germany and spend Billions of dollars to rebuild Western Europe in an effort to gain support in order to maintain its position above the Union. Militaraly, economically and technologically.

And so we have an American conspiracy that while it didn’t quite go as planned, in the end America still became to the sole dominant power in the world. Even without territories in Asia or Europe.
Though due to the recent economic crisis, is America’s position threatened?


: If any of you read that, bear in mind that it was just thought that passed through my head while I was going to bed the other night. I still found it an interesting thought though

It's easy to come up with conspiracy theories when you start with the end result, and work backwards.

Churchill being a moron once again.

Correct me if Im wrong...but...

didnt, the British Government, and France's and the rest of the Allies practically beg us to enter? :confused:

Correct me if Im wrong...but...

didnt, the British Government, and France's and the rest of the Allies practically beg us to enter? :confused:
Not sure if the Italians did, but aye the British and French wanted to get US troops involved sooner, basically to cheapen the war on our part both in terms of money and people.

Not sure if the Italians did, but aye the British and French wanted to get US troops involved sooner, basically to cheapen the war on our part both in terms of money and people.

Thats what i thought....Just had to make sure that I wouldnt have to change my entire perception of Reality, lol...