NationStates Jolt Archive

Piece of shit. Discuss.

Pointless thread, discuss.

Not a piece of shit - and those who call him that aren't fit to kiss his boots.

Che was an heroic person who died defending his vision. He wanted to liberate Latin America. However, Communism - particularly the Russia-line version was never going to be the way.
Communist parties were the wrong turn of the 20th century.
Hopefully some of Che's dreams will be realised in the 21st century. I think that the world might be getting innoculated from both Marxism and Capitalism. Viva la revolution anarchista!

He was a no good dirty communist, so yes he was a piece of shit.

He's dead, so who cares?

Get your hands off it boys! He gave gringo imperialism a hard time in Latin America - and that has to be a good thing.

Klaus Barbie - bigger piece of shit

Get your hands off it boys! He gave gringo imperialism a hard time in Latin America - and that has to be a good thing.

Does it?

Everyone who disagrees with your world view, is automatically a piece of shit. That's human nature for ya.

Does it?

Yes. It. DOES.

His pictures the most reproduced in the world.

His pictures the most reproduced in the world.

I think thats Mickey Mouse, or Jesus.


Jesus Mickey!

THE FIRE OF CHE' STILL BURNS THROUGH HIS EYES AT THIS GENERATION!!!
Have you no respect for the ideals and life of a man who genuinely tried to better his people and in fact, all the people of the world?! This generation, which includes me, have lost our way and merely dismiss such matters as unimportant, boring, or worse yet, just accept the status quo. How dare you! You write one statement that isn't even a sentence, "Piece of shit" and then just dismiss the issue! Give me something that will bring a fire to your soul and a purpose to your walk! What are you doing?! If you discuss all things in this way, I can assure you that you will never be a useful member of society and then the question arises as to why we support you! If you study at school, university, or college etc. What are they teaching you? Have some respect and learn! I myself am self taught, even though I was studying for a BEd(Bachelor of Education) in Australia, I gave that up to fight and teach people like you that there is an alternative to hopelessness! I am constantly working in the local council and I see young and old driven to such a state, but I tell you that it sickens me to think that this could happen to anyone in any place and in any situation! So, before you through the life of this valuable member of society onto the dung heap of historical failures, tell me why and discuss it. If this has been to harsh, I apologise, but if you ever give a trite answer like that again it will show what a weak minded person you are!

Yes. It. DOES. I would disagree

Now as to Che. I have found his life to be quite an inspiring story. He was truly a man who went out and reached for the salvation of the common man. His vision was fantastic, even if it was slightly misplaced, but his dedication to his cause was monumental. If anyone here has not yet seen the "Motorcycle Diaries", I suggest that they do. It is a fairly accurate portrayal of his journey to his final beliefs, that is until Fidel did him in. But Fidel's actions are another story altogether. So, enjoy the movie and learn from this man's dedication for the betterment of society.

I've seen the film, still didnt change my opinion of him.

I would disagree

That's because your country was not on the recieving end of militarism, torture and dictatorship supported by the oh-so-freedom-loving Americans of the time.

That's because your country was not on the recieving end of militarism, torture and dictatorship supported by the oh-so-freedom-loving Americans of the time. Germany was in a bad way before Hiter came along, is that an excuse to support him.

Germany was in a bad way before Hiter came along, is that an excuse to support him.

Godwin...

What's with all the trolls lately? They're rehashing old arguments without bringing any new fire to the discussion.

Quite sad.

Che Guevara

bloody scene kids...

I myself am self taught, even though I was studying for a BEd(Bachelor of Education) in Australia, I gave that up to fight and teach people like you that there is an alternative to hopelessness!

you will regret doing that.

Germany was in a bad way before Hiter came along, is that an excuse to support him.

dammit your supposed to day Lenin not the H-bomb

Germany was in a bad way before Hiter came along, is that an excuse to support him.

I don't support Castro. I am against the notion that American imperialism in Latin and South America isn't "necessarily a bad thing". Which you seem to espouse. Because the tortures and executions didn't happen in your country.

Respect me. I will NOT be taken down by such a measly move as Reductio ad Hitlerium.

Because the tortures and executions didn't happen in your country.

we had the IRA.

I don't support Castro. I am against the notion that American imperialism in Latin and South America isn't "necessarily a bad thing". Which you seem to espouse. Because the tortures and executions didn't happen in your country.

Respect me. I will NOT be taken down by such a measly move as Reductio ad Hitlerium. Perhaps it was a bad thing for those Latin countries, but was it a bad thing for the US of A. No, they did it for there own benefit and I’m choosing to side with them on this one.

@Call to power: Yes, there have been times when I think that I might have made a wrong decision, but each time I help another fellow man (or woman in the society of today:) to find that there is a way out, gives me a great blessing. Anyhow, it is not like I don't have a job. I am a private music teacher and I was only going to get my degree, so that I could be accepted in the public education system, but I am doing quite well in the private sector so I decided that I could give that up.
@all: The scene in which Che was involved was a truly intense bloody scene. He was trying to stop the oppression of your everyday "joe" and in doing so, made himself an enemy of those that supported the war. It was as Heikoku has said, quite devastating to the people who actually were involved, but beneficial to the policies and wallets of those dictating the events. Ideally, I would like to see countries govern themselves, without the outside intervention of other nations. It's like sticking your nose into another family's affairs, it just isn't right. The actions of the time caused many twists in the fate of Latin and South America and destroyed any support that America could have had in the scenario.
@Renner20: Please come up with something more original than the age old Hitler move. I personally believe that socialism is a viable form of government, but if you don't that's fine. Just try to be a bit more creative in your arguments. As to Hitler, he was a good option at the time, but it should have been the men behind him that rose to power, not the Tefferfrescher. He was a demented genius, wise in his governing of Germany, but unwise in his other more infamous deeds. But let's keep the subject on Che, a revolutionary who fought for the common man and his welfare.

The Hitler thing was a Cliché, you think i dont know that.

Assume the worst, hope for the best.

His pictures the most reproduced in the world.

Only because people are making money off of it.

Godwin...

What's with all the trolls lately? They're rehashing old arguments without bringing any new fire to the discussion.

Quite sad.

winter recess, all the highschool children are on break, over sugared, over caffinated, and far lacking in adult supervision, and all the college kids are back home, ready to show off what they've "learned".

Piece of shit. Discuss.

What should one think of the intelligence and of the culture of someone who deals away with one of the most influential historical figures of the last century with 2 nouns?

I am a private music teacher and I was only going to get my degree, so that I could be accepted in the public education system, but I am doing quite well in the private sector so I decided that I could give that up.

so how exactly are you helping people :confused:

He was trying to stop the oppression of your everyday "joe"

with violence.

winter recess, all the highschool children are on break, over sugared, over caffinated, and far lacking in adult supervision, and all the college kids are back home, ready to show off what they've "learned".

I wish I was back in the days when people just stood on a soapbox and shouted things I really do :(

winter recess, all the highschool children are on break, over sugared, over caffinated, and far lacking in adult supervision, and all the college kids are back home, ready to show off what they've "learned".

yeeeooooowwwwwwwwwwwwwwch!

*burns self on Neo Art's white-hot cynicism*

I wish I was back in the days when people just stood on a soapbox and shouted things I really do :(

http://www.fresnobeehive.com/archives/upload/2007/08/boondocksHuey500.jpg

It's called a soap box. If you got something to say, you use a soap box

Not a piece of shit - and those who call him that aren't fit to kiss his boots.

What about those my age who have very little idea who he was and just wear t-shirts with his picture on it because it is cool?

Perhaps it was a bad thing for those Latin countries, but was it a bad thing for the US of A. No, they did it for there own benefit and I’m choosing to side with them on this one.

Because you don't care how many people die as long as those that are like you feel comfortable.

Y'know, like Al Qaeda. Or, since you brought it up, like the Nazis.

What about those my age who have very little idea who he was and just wear t-shirts with his picture on it because it is cool?

I have no time for people who wear T-shirt's with Che on them, and claim it makes them some sort of communist. You bought it from capitalists exploiting third world workers, so shut it.

Exception, of course, for people who made their own Che T-shirts, but in my experience people who make their own clothing have moved beyond the stage of printing Latin American revolutionaries on them.

Edit: This applies more broadly to basically anyone who wears clothing that's 'revolutionary', branded with communist style slogans, etc. Similar opinions apply to those who wear store-bought 'punk' clothing and think it makes them punks, and so on.

What, me dislike consumer culture? Never, I say!

Klaus Barbie - bigger piece of shit

Hey, my wifes third cousins sisters nephews uncle third stepchilds sons sister is 1/3 related to Klaus Barbie.

Of course, that statement is invalidated by the fact that I don't have a wife.

Of course, that statement is invalidated by the fact that I don't have a wife.

And did you stop beating her? :p

(Joke on a common fallacy)

"Only because people are making money off of it."


And surely that is the essence of the American way?

You know, the CIA let all those Nazis flee to Brazil, Chile and Paraguay where they were instrumnetal in torturing and assassinating Latinos who were fighting for independence.

So who is going to defend the CIA and the juntas that ran Latin America in the post-war 20th century. Come on! Own up!
Otherwise....."Che est mort mais la lutte continue" (Che is dead but the struggle goes on!)

Because you don't care how many people die as long as those that are like you feel comfortable.

Y'know, like Al Qaeda. Or, since you brought it up, like the Nazis. Or just about any world leader. You are loyal to your own country, sod the rest of them.

Or just about any world leader. You are loyal to your own country, sod the rest of them.

Ah, so you're fine with your family getting murdered as long as it's in someone else's interest? Okay then.

Speaking of Christmas, I just watched "Joyeux Noel" about the 1914 Christmas truce where the Scottish, German and French troops fraternised on Christmas. Tis terribly subversive act of not killing each other was seriously frowned upon by all those country's generals and the brigades that fraternised were never allowed to be close to each other's positions for the duration of the war.
"Leaders" are usually able to manipulate their citizens to die for them (and to kill for them) but not always.
A bayonet has a worker at both ends.

Che Guevara was a sexist and a homophobe, so fuck him.

I find the appropriation of his image as pop-art suitable for mass consumption to be delightfully amusing, bordering on the ironic.

Piece of shit. Discuss.

What he said.

Whenever I see someone wearing a red t-shirt with his image on it, I imagine that the background color actually represents the flames of hell. :D

It was probably a good thing for his legacy that he died when he did, idealists turn to disillusion turn to tyrants.

Piece of shit. Discuss.
A mixed bag.

Che Guevara was a sexist and a homophobe, so fuck him.

I find the appropriation of his image as pop-art suitable for mass consumption to be delightfully amusing, bordering on the ironic.

I actually have a shirt with his picture on it that I wrote "IRONY" on.

What he said.

Whenever I see someone wearing a red t-shirt with his image on it, I imagine that the background color actually represents the flames of hell. :D

Because enjoying the notion of another person's soul suffering the worst fate possible for all eternity is the CHRISTIAN THING TO DO.

Or just about any world leader. You are loyal to your own country, sod the rest of them.
No, I think you're loyal only to your own country. The rest of us aren't so stupid.

Because enjoying the notion of another person's soul suffering the worst fate possible for all eternity is the CHRISTIAN THING TO DO.

I don't know his ultimate fate, but if God has indeed seen fit to consign him to eternal torment, I will rejoice in God's justice. :D

Che fought for what he though was right.
but so did Pinoche or most of the other great tyrants of history.
The diffrence is Che failed in the end. where as most of those know to history have succeded.

Che's last words:

"If you strike me down, I will be on more t-shirts than you can possibly imagine..."

Che's last words:

"If you strike me down, I will be on more t-shirts than you can possibly imagine..."

And Che would probably shoot anyone with his face on their shirt. :p

from the only thing written about the first 30 years of jesus life, other then his birth, that incident in the temple when he was twelve, if looked at in the context of what is known about the situation as it existed, historically, indipendent of its context of belief, there is a very strong implication of those years having been spent quite simularly to che's. might even have had SOMEthing to do with the REAL motivation for his appearantly wrongful exicution.

now che, i see has having had a hero's motivation. how many people know the real story about him? i don't claim to know all the details well, but i believe i may have heard more then those identifying themselve with the prejudice that condems him and seems to be, or have been, the theme of this thread.

on the other hand of course, i don't support the killing of anyone as a means to further a cause, however otherwise noble it might otherwise be.

so i won't rise to che's defense unconditionally, but neither will i condem what i believe to have been his motivation entirely and unconditionally either.

I would disagree

Of course you would. You still believe in Monarchies and White Man's burden. Maybe when you get older you'll grow out of it.

I don't know his ultimate fate, but if God has indeed seen fit to consign him to eternal torment, I will rejoice in God's justice. :D

Tell me, why would he be in hell? Because he disagreed with New Mitanni? Because he wasnt a capitalist?

Of course you would. You still believe in Monarchies and White Man's burden. Maybe when you get older you'll grow out of it.



Tell me, why would he be in hell? Because he disagreed with New Mitanni? Because he wasnt a capitalist?

because regardless about his beliefs he killed and advocated killing people to achieve those ends.

if socialism needs a hero let it be Hugo Chavez who atleast for the most part has worked with in the laws of his country to affect change.

because regardless about his beliefs he killed and advocated killing people to achieve those ends.


George Bush killed people to achieve his ends too. So did Reagan. And so did a lot of other people I garuntee you NM does not believe are in hell.

Of course you would. You still believe in Monarchies and White Man's burden. Maybe when you get older you'll grow out of it.
Constitutional Monarchies are great.

Che's last words:

"If you strike me down, I will be on more t-shirts than you can possibly imagine..."

This is awesome.

Piece of shit. Discuss.

Castro's Executioner has been room temperature longer than many of his admirers have been alive-and indications are, he achieved that noble status because someone, whether KGB or Castro, ratted him out to the authorities in a country he'd gone to spread "La Revolucion" to.

Not that he didn't deserve it. It's one thing to fight in a revolution at home, it's something else entirely to go looking for fights. Guevarra went looking for a fight, and got himself executed as a direct result.

Thus proving that not all third-world dictators are as stupid as Batista was.

This is awesome.

You do realize what you just said?

**picture of KOL's head exploding**

You do realize what you just said?

**picture of KOL's head exploding**

Hey, you can be funny when you put our mind to it.:p

one of Communisms legendary figures the others

Karl Marx
Fredrich Engels
Rosa Luxembourg
Vladmir Lenin
Mao Zedong


Im a Communist and i salute him
but you guys are completly entitled to your own opinion

Ah, so you're fine with your family getting murdered as long as it's in someone else's interest? Okay then. That's the thing, the government murdering families doesn’t happen in my country. But if a foreign government of which it would be in our interest to keep going were to do it, I couldn’t care less.

No, I think you're loyal only to your own country. The rest of us aren't so stupid. Its not stupid, its practical. It is not my or our government’s responsibility to try and solve the problems of other countries.

Of course you would. You still believe in Monarchies and White Man's burden. Maybe when you get older you'll grow out of it. Constitutional Monarchies, and when have I ever spoke of White Mans Burden.

That's the thing, the government murdering families doesn’t happen in my country. But if a foreign government of which it would be in our interest to keep going were to do it, I couldn’t care less.

Wow - do you actually have any principles at all, apart from "whatever is in my interest is right"?


Its not stupid, its practical. It is not my or our government’s responsibility to try and solve the problems of other countries.


But it is their responsibility to interfere in other countries if it is in their 'interest'? Double standards, no?

prefer José de San Martín to Che

John Cleese's character's views here may be relevant to our little discussion:
http://au.youtube.com:80/watch?v=N3LJYO3r1xw&feature=related

Castro's Executioner has been room temperature longer than many of his admirers have been alive-and indications are, he achieved that noble status because someone, whether KGB or Castro, ratted him out to the authorities in a country he'd gone to spread "La Revolucion" to.

Not that he didn't deserve it. It's one thing to fight in a revolution at home, it's something else entirely to go looking for fights. Guevarra went looking for a fight, and got himself executed as a direct result.

Thus proving that not all third-world dictators are as stupid as Batista was.

Yes it was a disaster to go into Bolivia without being invited. In fact, left-wing analysts coined the term "Guevarist tactics" to label actions which don't spring from the local people themselves. He was a flawed idealist who evoked the memory of Simon Bolivar in not just the Latin heart but among the left and dilettantes everywhere. Yes Capitalism co-opted his face to make it a very marketable logo. Maybe because he had a face that many people would have liked to have on a pillow beside them - so someone wearing his face might have a better chance of getting laid.
Hey! Make love not war! Either way, "Che lives!"

Piece of shit. Discuss.

Well, his face does look rather fashionable on that $90 shirt I bought from the Gap to show my high school friends how much of a rebel I am.

$90?? Oy! Go to your local left-wing bookshop. I'm sure they'll cut a better deal than that.
Here's some Venezualan "Che" agitprop - in Spanish so listen carefully:
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=_Q7Bx0gq5eU

George Bush killed people to achieve his ends too. So did Reagan. And so did a lot of other people I garuntee you NM does not believe are in hell.

mostly with in the laws of the United states (hides gitmo under a blanket)

because regardless about his beliefs he killed and advocated killing people to achieve those ends.

So, you wish Hell upon people who kill and advocate killing others?

Good to know you wish Hell on Bush.

That's the thing, the government murdering families doesn’t happen in my country.

I hope you get in the sights of people like you.

I hope you get in the sights of people like you.

Down boy.

Piece of shit. Discuss.

Piece of shit murderous scum, escoria. You will be surprised who and how many will defend him on these forums. You should have made it a Public Poll, you still can.

Piece of shit murderous scum, escoria. You will be surprised who and how many will defend him on these forums. You should have made it a Public Poll, you still can.

Che is personally responsible for Elian being in Cuba.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami Shores View Post
Piece of shit murderous scum, escoria. You will be surprised who and how many will defend him on these forums. You should have made it a Public Poll, you still can.

Che is personally responsible for Elian being in Cuba.

Proves my point, look who is defending that murderous escoria scum. I expected at least one of them too with that line, lol.

Proves my point, look who is defending that murderous escoria scum. I expected at least one of them too with that line, lol.

Actually, Ive never really defended him. I have no real opinion on Che.

Hey Miami Shores,
I understand that, as a Cuban emigre you will have issues with Fidel and Che and I for one don't support an authoritarian state jailing opponents. But do you support the Actions on the Theodore Roosevelt administration in starting the Spanish-American War by blaming the explosion of the USS Maine on Spain? Do you support the US annexation of Cuba turning Havana into America's brothel and casino while thousands of Cubans were oppressed by the Batista regime? Hell! Did you ever wonder why Che and Fidel won in Cuba? Like the South Vietnamese governmnet in 1975, Cuba was a country ripe for revolution. Maybe if the Mc Carthyists hadn't attacked Fidel from the beginning, he and Cuba may have turned out differently.
What's your family's story? Why did you flee Cuba?

Down boy.

What? I only said he should get to meet more people like him.

That way, I, a national of one of the countries he treated so callously, wouldn't have to.

Hey Miami Shores,
I understand that, as a Cuban emigre you will have issues with Fidel and Che and I for one don't support an authoritarian state jailing opponents. But do you support the Actions on the Theodore Roosevelt administration in starting the Spanish-American War by blaming the explosion of the USS Maine on Spain? Do you support the US annexation of Cuba turning Havana into America's brothel and casino while thousands of Cubans were oppressed by the Batista regime? Hell! Did you ever wonder why Che and Fidel won in Cuba? Like the South Vietnamese governmnet in 1975, Cuba was a country ripe for revolution. Maybe if the Mc Carthyists hadn't attacked Fidel from the beginning, he and Cuba may have turned out differently.
What's your family's story? Why did you flee Cuba?


Hmm, You do realize that McKinley was President at the time of the Spanish American War and that Theodore Roosevelt was only Assisant Secretary of the Navy at the time the war broke out. He wouldn't become Vice president until McKinley's second term and only because the Republican machine hoped he would just dispear after becoming Vice President.

Also William Randolph Hearst had an great deal to do with infaming the American Public against the spanish before the maine even blew up. He in fact was proud that he helped started the war, holding it to be his war.

Ha! Ha! Good one Teritoria! Touche!
You're right of course. Teddy Roosevelt and the Rough Riders only charged up San Juan Hill..... and Hearst was the magnate that started that nasty, squalid war - he was the Rupert Murdoch of his age.

Hey Miami! Why silent on it? It was serious US imperialism - every bit as bad as Vietnam and Iraq.

Wow - do you actually have any principles at all, apart from "whatever is in my interest is right"?



But it is their responsibility to interfere in other countries if it is in their 'interest'? Double standards, no?

Got it in one.

I hope you get in the sights of people like you. Good for you.

Got it in one.


Duly noted.

It's nice to see a bit of good old fashioned simplistic hypocrisy!

Ah, Che. Nice ideals, shame they don't work. He left all the work to others anyway. As someone once said about him, "It was easier for him to blow up trains than make them run on time."

SNIP

hes a male teen let him grow out of it :wink:

(though I myself went red which I guess shows just how good red alert was)

which I guess shows just how good red alert was)

What a game. I prefer RA2 though. I might go and make a thread now.

Wow - do you actually have any principles at all, apart from "whatever is in my interest is right"?


90 percent of people run that way, Holy Cheese.

Your principles are only good as far as you "believe" in them.

Are you willing to kill or die for each and every one of your principles?

Willing to kill and die to help someone in some faraway country?

If not, then your principle in this area is just a pipe dream.

OP is spam.

No discussion.