NationStates Jolt Archive

One of the most difficult things in life, I find, is trying to reason with people who are - in my opinion - not the brightest Crayola in the box. We all have different definitions of who or what we find stupid. Some may think right-wing Christians are stupid, for example. I think what we can all agree upon, however, is that some people are incredibly difficult to reason with. When someone is stubborn, set in their way of thinking, uneducated, inexperienced or just plain vacuous, it can be very difficult to get your point across. So, how do you reason with these people? How do you debate when it's seemingly impossible to get your point across? I'm sure some of you are excellent debaters, so I'd like to hear your advice. Also, please share your experiences with trying to reason with people who simply just don't get it: we all love a funny yet frustrating story.

I don't bother.


Oops :$

Well, I generally win IT horror story pissing matches... which is impressive, given I don't work in IT and I have friends who are IT managers and such.

Usually I don't bother trying to get my point across to stupid people; often citing that "you could stab so-and-so with good solid points all day long and it wouldn't penetrate so-and-so's Armor of Stupid."

... Which isn't an option when the stupid person is the business manager I do filing lackey work for, and unofficially computer help because this woman can't send an email to more than one person at a time without having step-by-step instructions written down to reference.

The particular story that makes my friends cringe involves screen resolution and a label printer. Keep in mind, this woman has her monitor set at 640x480 resolution, while any computer I'm using is at a much more sensible 1024x768 or 1152x864. I was filling in for the front desk secretary, and thus had the front computer set to one of those resolutions. The front desk computer is also the one hooked up to the label printer.

So she comes up to where I am, and says she needs me to make a label. Okay, I tell her, opening the label program on the computer and typing in the information she tells me. Now remember what I mentioned about her screen resolution and mine earlier.

"Oh, Stephanie, make the font bigger- that looks too small."
"Don't worry, it's just the screen resolution, the label will still be the same size it always is."
"No, I need the label to be bigger than that so I can read it easily."
"Listen, it won't BE any smaller than normal. It just LOOKS smaller on the screen because my settings are different."
"But that's tiny, I won't be able to read it!"

And so on for about ten minutes because she would NOT stop making a fuss long enough for me to just hit the damn print button. She finally shut up and wandered away in befuddled silence when I finally got her to stop fussing long enough to hit the print button and holy shit, the label printed at the same size she's used to!

.... On top of that, about two hours later she wandered back in needing another label and we went through the entire argument again. I'm filling in for the secretary again at the end of this month, and you know, I would not be surprised if this computer-illiterate idiot and I have to go through the label argument AGAIN.

I say "Just wait, I know what I'm doing..."

>.>

I don't bother. I don't bother to argue. I don't really bother to even acknowledge their presence. Even that takes them a few minutes to figure out. Point proven? Probably not.

There's one language stupid people understand. Well, two actually. One is violence. The other is stupid. Either punch stupid people in the face or speak the language of stupid so they can understand you. And don't go more than one or two syllables a word. Tripple-syllable words confuse stupid people. This is how we settled a dispute with the evil bastards of Xenuland. We punched their faces and spoke their national language of stupid. They gave us one of their cities. Well, actually, we aquired it through liberal use of violent force. We gained Hubbardville and renamed it "Failureburg". Boy were they pissed. I think it was submissive piss.

I'm afraid that I'll get so sucked into the back and forth that no one from the outside will be able to tell which one is the idiot. Usually I try and back out when I find myself either repeating myself or arguing too far adrift of the original point of contention.

i prefer to use the big ol' stick of enlightenment. saves time, and is good exercise.

i prefer to use the big ol' stick of enlightenment. saves time, and is good exercise.

With all the violence your big stick surely dishes out, stupid people must really understand you. Do you aim for the face or are you more of a ball-wacking person?

I think you've got to start by realising that you don't have to debate them. Getting over the need to argue with every person who has a stupid opinion is very liberating.

If, however, you need to argue with somebody because what you want rests on convincing that person of something then you've got to bullshit your way through. A lot of false concessions - "yes but"s and "I agree, in an ideal world, but.."s

I think you've got to start by realising that you don't have to debate them. Getting over the need to argue with every person who has a stupid opinion is very liberating.

If, however, you need to argue with somebody because what you want rests on convincing that person of something then you've got to bullshit your way through. A lot of false concessions - "yes but"s and "I agree, in an ideal world, but.."s

But if we do that, those Xenuland terrorists will win!

I don't bother. No matter how one may try, stupid people are.. well... stupid. Why waste my time?

I don't bother. No matter how one may try, stupid people are.. well... stupid. Why waste my time?

Because punching them in the face is fun? Isn't that how debates work when stupid people are involved? By punching them in the face?

Because punching them in the face is fun? Isn't that how debates work when stupid people are involved? By punching them in the face?

I find that when debating, one has more fun with intelligent people. A stupid person is too easy and, in the worst case, too infuriating. No matter what you say or how you sustain your claim, they're far too set in their ideas (stupid as they may be) and won't listen to reason. *shrug* I don't bother anymore.

Of course, sometimes I'm too poisonous in my retorts and I really, on account of a dimwit, don't want to be accused of flaming. You know what I mean? :wink:

Occasionally, if my parents need help with computer stuffs, I'll do this:

http://xkcd.com/208/

Only without the swinging and the programming...

I find that when debating, one has more fun with intelligent people. A stupid person is too easy and, in the worst case, too infuriating. No matter what you say or how you sustain your claim, they're far too set in their ideas (stupid as they may be) and won't listen to reason. *shrug* I don't bother anymore.

Of course, sometimes I'm too poisonous in my retorts and I really, on account of a dimwit, don't want to be accused of flaming. You know what I mean? :wink:

It's nice to be able to speak English and be understood when your fist is sore from punching so many places. Makes your brain wumbo.

PS You guys and your crazy made-up countries. "Spain". Pssh. What words will you guys invent next?

It's nice to be able to speak English and be understood when your fist is sore from punching so many places. Makes your brain wumbo.

PS You guys and your crazy made-up countries. "Spain". Pssh. What words will you guys invent next?
duh. spain is where st nicholas lives with his 6-8 black men (not slaves, just good friends) and assorted bad dutch children.

It's nice to be able to speak English and be understood when your fist is sore from punching so many places. Makes your brain wumbo.

Claim sustained.

PS You guys and your crazy made-up countries. "Spain". Pssh. What words will you guys invent next?

Spain is the anglisized word for ''España'', which comes from the Latin ''Hispania''. Bitch at the Romans, not me. I just inherited the word. ;)

I generally just do what I will, I ignore the stupid people.

I generally just do what I will, I ignore the stupid people.

if NSGers ignored the stupid, then what would become of me?

if NSGers ignored the stupid, then what would become of me?

Uh... Nothing? :$

duh. spain is where st nicholas lives with his 6-8 black men (not slaves, just good friends) and assorted bad dutch children.

No, he lives in the North Pole, where he researches the pornographic reticullum that is in every tube within the internets. He leaves every Augest 24 (Pie Day[Zepland]) to round up every bad boy and girl that insults the greatness of Anpu and Zeppelin and drops them off in Xenuland as punishment, while every good Zeppelin-loving boy and girl gets to party with Anpu and Lincoln. Get your facts straight.

I must note that I love the irony of this thread...

Uh... Nothing? :$

Okay then I'm good.

I must note that I love the irony of this thread...

Seconded.

This is classic.

No, he lives in the North Pole, where he researches the pornographic reticullum that is in every tube within the internets. He leaves every Augest 24 (Pie Day[Zepland]) to round up every bad boy and girl that insults the greatness of Anpu and Zeppelin and drops them off in Xenuland as punishment, while every good Zeppelin-loving boy and girl gets to party with Anpu and Lincoln. Get your facts straight.
why would 6-8 black men want to live at the north pole?

im sure you must be mistaken.

why would 6-8 black men want to live at the north pole?

im sure you must be mistaken.

To build snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry that they will use to get back at the white man for taking their land and forcefully employing them in the exciting field of cotton picking. Who wouldn't want snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry?

To build snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry that they will use to get back at the white man for taking their land and forcefully employing them in the exciting field of cotton picking. Who wouldn't want snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry?
oh

i didnt consider that

yeah. if i could have snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry id move to the north pole in a heartbeat.

To build snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry that they will use to get back at the white man for taking their land and forcefully employing them in the exciting field of cotton picking. Who wouldn't want snowmen and thermonuclear weaponry?

Mugabe wouldn't want snowmen. He'd take the thermonuclear weaponry though.

The biggest problem with arguing with stupid people is that they don't KNOW they're stupid, and think YOU are for disagreeing with them.

OP - "When someone is stubborn, set in their way of thinking, uneducated, inexperienced or just plain vacuous, it can be very difficult to get your point across..."


Once, you try. Give what information/knowledge you have.. in a right way. IF they ignore you (lalalaalala I don't even want to hear what you are saying .. lalalalala) .. or are flat out bull headed. Move on. Not your place. Waste of time.

Might seem like a quitter move, but I'm realistic when it comes to people. Also.. no I don't have the freakin energy nor drive to fight people to change their view, at this moment.

The biggest problem with arguing with stupid people is that they don't KNOW they're stupid, and think YOU are for disagreeing with them.
and sometimes they are not stupid at all, they just have a different point of view that you are not going to change.

Mugabe wouldn't want snowmen. He'd take the thermonuclear weaponry though.

Mugabe doesn't listen to Led Zeppelin, which makes him bad. Therefore, he is banned from the entire Arctic Circle and all of Zepland. If he steps one foot in Carouselambra, Zepland, we'd punch him in the face.

Mugabe doesn't listen to Led Zeppelin, which makes him bad. Therefore, he is banned from the entire Arctic Circle and all of Zepland. If he steps one foot in Carouselambra, Zepland, we'd punch him in the face.
you would have no choice. he is abysmally stupid.

you would have no choice. he is abysmally stupid.

There is a brilliance to his stupidity. His mind is like ancient ruins in the middle of a jungle. The more it crumbles, the more mysterious it becomes. But he is not ancient ruins, which leaves my analogy null and void.

It has also come to my attention that our different beliefs may lead us all to believe that everyone is stupid. We need a new thread for that.

I'm lolling at how silly this is.

I'm lolling at how silly this is.

Does Christmahanikwanzikah know who needs their faces punched?

Y'know, if it wouldn't cost me my source of income, I could really get behind this "punching stupid people" thing.

But fire is so much more entertaining! The flailing, the screaming! Such sweet music! :p

you would have no choice. he is abysmally stupid.

He's evil. Not stupid.

And besides, Zimbabwe belongs to him.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/ap_on_re_af/af_zimbabwe

HARARE, Zimbabwe – President Robert Mugabe declared Friday that "Zimbabwe is mine," saying only Zimbabweans can remove him from power and that no African nation is brave enough to wrest it from him.

The ever-defiant Mugabe — in power for nearly three decades — hit back after the top U.S. envoy to Africa called for the "person who has ruined the country" to step down....

etc. etc. Click the link if you wanna read more.

I'm lolling at how silly this is.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/Denvek/TooSilly.jpg

He's evil. Not stupid.

And besides, Zimbabwe belongs to him.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081219/ap_on_re_af/af_zimbabwe

HARARE, Zimbabwe – President Robert Mugabe declared Friday that "Zimbabwe is mine," saying only Zimbabweans can remove him from power and that no African nation is brave enough to wrest it from him.

The ever-defiant Mugabe — in power for nearly three decades — hit back after the top U.S. envoy to Africa called for the "person who has ruined the country" to step down....

etc. etc. Click the link if you wanna read more.
shhhhhhhh i was going with the theme of the thread.

Now, I usually just try and avoid those arguements. I know who I can have good deabtes with.

On the other side, this thread is really entertaining. I think I should try and avoid most of you.

Kagetora;14328823']Now, I usually just try and avoid those arguements. I know who I can have good deabtes with.

On the other side, this thread is really entertaining. I think I should try and avoid most of you.
youd love it here. you should come back every day.

Y'know, if it wouldn't cost me my source of income, I could really get behind this "punching stupid people" thing.

But fire is so much more entertaining! The flailing, the screaming! Such sweet music! :p

But it's nice to get your hands dirty with someone else's blood.

Kagetora;14328823']Now, I usually just try and avoid those arguements. I know who I can have good deabtes with.

On the other side, this thread is really entertaining. I think I should try and avoid most of you.

Just avoid those stupid people from Xenuland. They've been bitching ever since my fellow Zeplanders forcefully aquired their most sacred city and renamed it "Failureburg". It's really annoying.

But it's nice to get your hands dirty with someone else's blood.

Exactly, that's why you use a chainsaw

Kagetora;14328977']Exactly, that's why you use a chainsaw

Anpu doesn't want me to use a chainsaw because cleanup is a bitch.

Is this "Stupid because someone disagrees with your enlightened world view" or "Stupid because you're an asshole who thinks you're better than someone else"? :tongue:

Is this "Stupid because someone disagrees with your enlightened world view" or "Stupid because you're an asshole who thinks you're better than someone else"? :tongue:

Stupid because they're always right, even when they're completely wrong. In other words, Ancient Greeks and Scientologists.

Ancient Greeks

Die.:p

Stupid because they're always right, even when they're completely wrong. In other words, Ancient Greeks and Scientologists.

I totally lol'd

Stupid because they're always right, even when they're completely wrong. In other words, Ancient Greeks and Scientologists.
Damn, forgot the Greeks...

One of the most difficult things in life, I find, is trying to reason with people who are - in my opinion - not the brightest Crayola in the box. We all have different definitions of who or what we find stupid. Some may think right-wing Christians are stupid, for example. I think what we can all agree upon, however, is that some people are incredibly difficult to reason with. When someone is stubborn, set in their way of thinking, uneducated, inexperienced or just plain vacuous, it can be very difficult to get your point across. So, how do you reason with these people? How do you debate when it's seemingly impossible to get your point across? I'm sure some of you are excellent debaters, so I'd like to hear your advice. Also, please share your experiences with trying to reason with people who simply just don't get it: we all love a funny yet frustrating story.

I find it helps to remember two things: 1) Not everyone sees things the way I do, and B) My way is not necessarily always the only way or even the right way. If I can keep that in mind, my ability to reason with some people...or just leave them in their state...increases.

It's all relative and what one person sees as stupidity, another sees as genius.

If I resort to talking to a troll, a lamer, or a stubborn mule who fails to see any reason, which unfortunately I sometimes do, I won't have any expectation of a meaningful outcome whatsoever. That's how I do it.

It's all relative and what one person sees as stupidity, another sees as genius.


That's what people say when they talk about my country of Zepland and my awesome new religion. And me, but they're jealous of my foxies because they don't have any and they're ancient Greeks that want my foxies.

That's what people say when they talk about my country of Zepland and my awesome new religion. And me, but they're jealous of my foxies because they don't have any and they're ancient Greeks that want my foxies.

I know.

Well, if someone's being a thick-headed mule, I'll hit them with convoluted logic. Sure it won't make sense and it will confuse them, but I will be amused. If it's someone asking me for help and it's something I know, but they don't like my methods or think I'm doing it wrong, a simple phrase always shuts them up, "if you don't like the way I'm doing it, do it yourself."

One of the most difficult things in life, I find, is trying to reason with people who are - in my opinion - not the brightest Crayola in the box. We all have different definitions of who or what we find stupid. Some may think right-wing Christians are stupid, for example. I think what we can all agree upon, however, is that some people are incredibly difficult to reason with. When someone is stubborn, set in their way of thinking, uneducated, inexperienced or just plain vacuous, it can be very difficult to get your point across. So, how do you reason with these people? How do you debate when it's seemingly impossible to get your point across? I'm sure some of you are excellent debaters, so I'd like to hear your advice. Also, please share your experiences with trying to reason with people who simply just don't get it: we all love a funny yet frustrating story. That’s a very arrogant way to go about things, just because they have different viewpoints to yourself doesn’t make them stupid. What you see a good point they may see as complete rubbish, and visa-versa. Its all a matter of opinion, not intelligence.

That’s a very arrogant way to go about things, just because they have different viewpoints to yourself doesn’t make them stupid. What you see a good point they may see as complete rubbish, and visa-versa. Its all a matter of opinion, not intelligence.

I think he or she meant that they were stupid because they wouldn't listen and wouldn't consider viewpoints that differ from their own.

"Oh, Stephanie, make the font bigger- that looks too small."
"Don't worry, it's just the screen resolution, the label will still be the same size it always is."
"No, I need the label to be bigger than that so I can read it easily."
"Listen, it won't BE any smaller than normal. It just LOOKS smaller on the screen because my settings are different."
"But that's tiny, I won't be able to read it!"



THIS is what I mean. Exactly this.

Because punching them in the face is fun? Isn't that how debates work when stupid people are involved? By punching them in the face?

Unfortunately some stupid people often resort to violence first. Apparently it's a language they understand.

I must note that I love the irony of this thread...

Seconded.

This is classic.

:/

The biggest problem with arguing with stupid people is that they don't KNOW they're stupid, and think YOU are for disagreeing with them.

That's the problem. I was just wondering, how exactly do you think we can get around that? How do you debate with someone like that? And, I guess in a way we can all be like that, but still...

Is this "Stupid because someone disagrees with your enlightened world view" or "Stupid because you're an asshole who thinks you're better than someone else"? :tongue:

First one, mostly.

But, second one sometimes.

Like I said in the OP, everyone has different things and people they find stupid. The definition of stupid is not what I'm talking about. I'm asking, how do we debate with people we think are stupid?

That’s a very arrogant way to go about things, just because they have different viewpoints to yourself doesn’t make them stupid. What you see a good point they may see as complete rubbish, and visa-versa. Its all a matter of opinion, not intelligence.

Well, I have to disagree about it being a matter of opinion rather than intelligence. Intelligence, opinion and education on the subject are all important.

If you read what I wrote, however, I was getting at that despite everyone defining stupidity differently, how do we debate with people we think are stupid?

I think he or she meant that they were stupid because they wouldn't listen and wouldn't consider viewpoints that differ from their own.

She & yep.

I use simple diagrams, usually drawn with crayons.

I use simple diagrams, usually drawn with crayons.
I like the way you think but please stop thinking, it's not you.

i believe the ancient phrase is:"never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed human".

i believe the ancient phrase is:"never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed human".

Bingo.

I like the way you think but please stop thinking, it's not you.

Holy crap - who is it then??!

I always thought it was me doing the thinking....

Reason with them? Hows this?:

http://gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite?blobcol=urldata&blobtable=MungoBlobs&blobkey=id&blobwhere=1202251446155&blobheader=image%2Fjpeg

Really, I just use stupid people for their amusement value.

One of my housemates regularly talks down to me if he thinks that I'm being stupid, especially when computers are concerned.

I don't know much about the things, and admittedly it doesn't help that I often become cack-handed when someone's trying to direct me to something on it and I just can't find it, even though I was probably looking at it a few minutes previously, scratching my head as to why that particular feature on my PC wasn't working.

Nonetheless, it is massively irritating, especially since I know craploads more than him on other subjects, like history.

It's just a case of either being more patient with someone, especially if they've got the good grace to recognise when they're being wrong or just leaving them to their idiocy if they decide to stand by their incorrectness. It often comes back to bite them on their arse if they're that keen to maintain their stupidity.

I find debating in youtube comments sections gives me practice in arguing with stupid people. :p

I find debating in youtube comments sections gives me practice in arguing with stupid people. :p
But that's like teasing animals with food.

Funny as hell.

The best way to deal with stupid people is to tackle them, handcuff their hands behind their back, tie their testicles to a cinderblock and toss them into a pool of quicksand to die a terrifying death where nobody will ever find the corpse.

The second best way to deal with stupid people is to use their stupidity as a source of personal amusement.

I try not to deal with stupid people. Its usually an excersize in futility and most of them will just drag you down to thier level and beet you with experience. So I have learned that if a person I confirm to be stupid makes a dumb comment to just shrug and nod, and if they need assistance to just take over the project and not try to explain.

How do you argue with stupid?
You don't.

Spain is the anglisized word for ''España'', which comes from the Latin ''Hispania''. Bitch at the Romans, not me. I just inherited the word. ;)

And, then there's ''Espanja'', which is Finnish for Spain. BTW, a Finnish guy called J. Karjalainen wrote an ode to Spain: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0x5ezNh45pQ

Well in my opinion, stupid people can learn. Its ignorant people you can't reason with. They know they are wrong, even against flawless reasoning and fact, where as stupid people don't know they are wrong, and it is up to you to teach them.

Well in my opinion, stupid people can learn. Its ignorant people you can't reason with. They know they are wrong, even against flawless reasoning and fact, where as stupid people don't know they are wrong, and it is up to you to teach them.
Nah, even ignorant people aren't that bad. It's the willfully ignorant who are the problem.

Really, I just use stupid people for their amusement value.
So you like to play with yourself?

The biggest problem with arguing with stupid people is that they don't KNOW they're stupid, and think YOU are for disagreeing with them.

What's worse is that I'm not positive they're wrong. I try to assume everyone is as intelligent or more intelligent than I am and work off of that. If we're both intelligent, it works out swell. If they're stupid and I'm not, well, at least I can say I tried. If they're intelligent and I'm stupid, I don't have the added problem of being arrogant.

But that's like teasing animals with food.

Funny as hell.

Or, if you care about the future state of humanity, depressing as hell.

I try not to deal with stupid people. Its usually an excersize in futility and most of them will just drag you down to thier level and beet you with experience. So I have learned that if a person I confirm to be stupid makes a dumb comment to just shrug and nod, and if they need assistance to just take over the project and not try to explain.

God I'm an asshole! Anyway, irony.:p

Wow, now I know why everyone NSG gets a kick out of being petty.

God I'm an asshole! Anyway, irony.:p

Wow, now I know why everyone one NSG gets a kick out of being petty.
"Everyone one?"
If we're going to be petty...;)

"Everyone one?"
If we're going to be petty...;)

I guess pride comes before the fall.:$