NationStates Jolt Archive

I intended to post this in the Mac vs. PC thread, but I decided to make it its own thread rather than drag that one too far off topic. Just don't expect me to respond, I just want my opinon known

Either this is some kind of sarcasm based rile-me-up attempt, or you're serious and can be written off as a fanboy.

Actually, based on your long ramble of unsubstantiated "Ooh shininess" Mac advocacy, which looks almost copy pasted with a few word changes from similar "testimonies", it sounds like a bunch of crock.

Bolded is the relevent part,just change Mac to Firefox

This sort of thing is (almost word for word) why I stay with IE instead of going with Firefox. Sure firefox has all these shiny features but at the end of the day they're just fucking web browsers and I just want one that works for what I intend to do. I don't need something that does a million things I'll never do. And let's not forget Firefox had more security issues (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Browser-Wars-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-vs-Safari-vs-Opera-83045.shtml) than it's main competitor in its last iteration (and don't think that people don't try to exploit them either), and yet I keep getting slammed with people telling me to use it. Seriously, stop it.

I am for IE over Firefox.

Firefox just slows my computer down dramatically, and sometimes it just doesn't work on me.

IE may have many flaws, but it never lets me down when i need it.

Just don't expect me to respond, I just want my opinon known


I believe that's what blogs are for.

Until recently, IE had that Gaping Security Flaw that could be easily exploited. Even world news organizations like the BBC were advising people to stay away from IE until a patch was released (and it was).

Still, I haven't gone near Firefox myself. Right now I'm volunteering to try out Google Chrome. Sure it doesn't have a lot of features right now and it's got bugs but hey, so did every browser at its beginning.

Why I don't care:

*wanders off*

Until recently, IE had that Gaping Security Flaw that could be easily exploited. Even world news organizations like the BBC were advising people to stay away from IE until a patch was released (and it was).

Still, I haven't gone near Firefox myself. Right now I'm volunteering to try out Google Chrome. Sure it doesn't have a lot of features right now and it's got bugs but hey, so did every browser at its beginning.

Firefox to me is nothing but hype. I just don't get why it's popular.

Firefox to me is nothing but hype. I just don't get why it's popular.

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.

Ah.

People still can't admit that aguy can create a computer company out of his basment that is far superior than a bunch of dorks in suits can make huh?

I really thought the years of Windows hatin' were over...

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.
Och, nonsense.

Sure, some people just love to take a dump on MS at every opportunity, but Mac/Linux usage isn't driven by such sentiment.

Just use what you want, it's your fault for letting fanboys get to you. Sure, IE has more holes than a spaghetti drainer and has been abandoned by it's creator, but somebody needs spam and what would they do without botnets. And IE is essentially embedded into the windows kernel anyways, so might as well not try to hide from it. And firefox isn't the only alternative anyways, not even mozilla, there are things like chrome from google, which is an up and coming browser.

Just use what you want, it's your fault for letting fanboys get to you. Sure, IE has more holes than a spaghetti drainer and has been abandoned by it's creator, but somebody needs spam and what would they do without botnets. And IE is essentially embedded into the windows kernel anyways, so might as well not try to hide from it. And firefox isn't the only alternative anyways, not even mozilla, there are things like chrome from google, which is an up and coming browser.

Is chrome any good? I am looking for a new browser (I currently have IE).
But mozilla, and firefox suck.

Is chrome any good? I am looking for a new browser (I currently have IE).
But mozilla, and firefox suck.

Compared to the veterans in the field it lacks a lot of flash and glitter.

However, individual browser panel crashes are contained to where you can keep the browser as a whole operating, and it comes with an Incognito Window feature where you can open up a stealth version of Chrome where all traces of your visit to a website including cookies are either suppressed and/or erased upon your departure.

Compared to the veterans in the field it lacks a lot of flash and glitter.

However, individual browser panel crashes are contained to where you can keep the browser as a whole operating, and it comes with an Incognito Window feature where you can open up a stealth version of Chrome where all traces of your visit to a website including cookies are either suppressed and/or erased upon your departure.

Hmm, sounds like it could have a lot of potential.

Hmm, sounds like it could have a lot of potential.

It still has bugs here and there, but again it's still brand new, recently de-Betad and a WiP. But the potentials are staggering if they're refined. I'm using it right now.

chrome is fine though it seems more of a test at this point, but on the plus side if you're on windows right now it's available. The problems people seem to have with mozilla or firefox seem to be rooted in windows software, and if it's intentional stirring by MS, the same thing will happen to any other browser competitor on that OS, if so, save yourself the trouble and stick with IE.

Ah.

People still can't admit that aguy can create a computer company out of his basment that is far superior than a bunch of dorks in suits can make huh?

I really thought the years of Windows hatin' were over...

Wasn't Mac founded by two guys (one a scruffy sloppy beardy and the other with a penchant for turtlenecks) in a garage and Linux a bunch of open source freaks? What windmill you tiltin' at, dude?

It still has bugs here and there, but again it's still brand new, recently de-Betad and a WiP. But the potentials are staggering if they're refined. I'm using it right now.

sounds good, but until chrome is refined i think i will just stick with IE. (unless if i get persuaded well.)

Wasn't Mac founded by two guys (one a scruffy sloppy beardy and the other with a penchant for turtlenecks) in a garage and Linux a bunch of open source freaks? What windmill you tiltin' at, dude?

T'was a joke, not a good one, but a joke none the less.

sounds good, but until chrome is refined i think i will just stick with IE. (unless if i get persuaded well.)

Only way it'll be refined is if people use it and send in bug reports whenever they crop up. Plus, Chrome isn't vulnerable to IE's treasure trove of security exploits.

I use Safari. Safari came on my Mac so therefore it is awesome and made of puppy dog farts with pink ribbons and sparkles. Anyone else who says otherwise takes it up the ass from "The Man" and is a corporate sellout.

Only way it'll be refined is if people use it and send in bug reports whenever they crop up. Plus, Chrome isn't vulnerable to IE's treasure trove of security exploits.

I will defintely download it within the next couple of days and give it a shot. I will wait until after the holidays, when I will be on the internet a little more often.

I use Safari. Safari came on my Mac so therefore it is awesome and made of puppy dog farts with pink ribbons and sparkles. Anyone else who says otherwise takes it up the ass from "The Man" and is a corporate sellout.

Safari is good, but I don't have a mac. Hence the problem. (PC version of Safari sucks.)

I don't use Firefox becuause it's *the* alternative browser (that is the non-microsoft IE).

I use Opera - Even though versions from 9.50 to 9.63 have been pieces of shit, it's still by far the best browser.

Opera suffers from similar things as Firefox at this point (on Winblows). Any other popular browser may eventually suffer the same fate. Firefox 1 was faster than anything when 12 people were using it.

Or it could just be that chrome is fast because there's not much use there yet. Either way, don't expect miracles. Mozilla/Firefox are already as light as they can while doing what they need to do. IE is fast because it's loaded into Windows whether you like it or not; it is part of Windows' memory print, it never closes for it to open.

I use, at any given point in time, Firefox, Opera, IE, and Google Chrome. (I would use Safari, but I currently use Windows, and the PC version of Safari is...how shall we say, bad.)

Promiscuity, ah, it rocks. :p

Opera suffers from similar things as Firefox at this point (on Winblows). Any other popular browser may eventually suffer the same fate. Firefox 1 was faster than anything when 12 people were using it.
It's still fast and light - when compared to need-10-plugins-Firefox - but post-9.5 it's been unstable, has a tendency to leak memory. However the biggest issue I have is that 9.5 series broke customs - key & mouse controls, etc.. - used since...well...at least Opera 6 (it also bork shift-del [= cut] on address bar with an international keyboard) and didn't actually introduce anything revolutionary beyond a new address bar (and a new - rushed, poorly working, bugged, ugly, unfunctional - default skin).

I'm hoping 10.0 will return Opera back to glory.

btw. IE 6 is the fastest browser around on Windows. ;)

btw2. I'd swap browsers in a heart beat if another browser offered 1) rmb+lmb forward/back function 2) customizable search mnemonics (eg. g, w, a, ud for google, wiki, answers.com & urban dictionary) 3) UI links (have 30ish 1 click bookmark buttons on the interface) and 4) speed dial (new tab = 9 [customizable with an ini edit] "preview" webpages) 5) internal ad & pop-up blocker 6) browser masking (though, FF & IE don't really need this) 7) "Recycle Bin" (ie. easily accessible history of closed tabs) 8) ctrl, shift & new tabs

Most new browsers have few of those but only Opera has them all by default ;)

It's still fast and light

has a tendency to leak memory.

Talk about a contradiction.

Any version of IE loads as part of windows, that's the speed and it's all start up, it's actually slow in displaying stuff once it's running; 7 got bloated up a la Vista, but basically when you close an IE window it doesn't really close, it's more like minimized.

And I'd like to clock firefox overall against other so called light browsers because Opera doesn't seem especially fast to me. Try smooth scrolling to see how fast Opera is, or loading bad js sites, or see how it does with flash, java or other plugins. Then there's the font rendering, not that great.

Huh. I switched to Firefox recently (after IE 7 crashing on me for the 10 billionth time and being frustrated by having to reopen my last used tabs over and over and over again) and it's run as fast as IE 7. There's no noticeable difference.

I'd like to clock the difference, but I don't really have any intentions of switching back.

I do not have a preference for a browser, if I went on looks alone I'd choose Safari.

The only reason I use Firefox is because IE, (which I used when I had XP) Seems to be slower than a snail on my Vista system.

I use Flock to do NS, Firefox to do Youtube, IE to do online games, and Chrome to do everything else. :p

:D

Hehehe. I read that blog about Firefox being more vulnerable than IE a while ago. I've also read the blogs that tore that Symantec report to pieces for being inaccurate/bad. It overlooked three key points:

1. Time to fix
2. Number (still) unpatched
3. FF is a self-contained program, while IE rests upon Windows - so for an accurate vulnerability count you'll need to go and find thoes Windows vulnerabilities that impact IE for a fair count.

Still, I use FF pretty exclusively for several reasons:

1. Adblock
2. Flashblock
3. DownloadThemAll
4. Speed (my 32 bit FF is faster on my 64 bit Vista than both the 32 and 64 bit IE)

I do run into problems when I end up needing IE, though. However, those are either due to out-side parties (combining 32 bit Java/Flash on a 64 bit Vista has been an issue) or because I've been too lazy to figure out what sites to give permission to in Flashblock or just didn't want to do that (so the problem was me!)

I stick with FF because it:

1. Meets my desires/preferences/Internet use better than IE in general
2. Extensions and themes
3. I prefer the open-source philosophy over the closed-source philosophy and choose to support those programs

Would IE Tab remedy your problems...?

Firefox has neat plugins. Some of them are actually super-useful. Before I discovered those, I used Opera.

I run Firefox because I like it, have had good experiences using it, and haven't had massive headaches from it.

I've had massive headaches from IE in all the versions I've used. Firefox does what I tell it to do, and it doesn't do what I don't want it to do. IE doesn't always do what I tell it to do, and often does things I don't want it to do.

simple as that.

It might - except I haven't figured out how to open the 32-bit IE with IE tab (I do have that extension and use it on occassion). That's where my biggest problem with FF is - Flash/Java not working properly due to the 32/64 bit mix.

I am for IE over Firefox.

Firefox just slows my computer down dramatically, and sometimes it just doesn't work on me.

IE may have many flaws, but it never lets me down when i need it.

Opera fits the same criteria for me, plus it's much faster in my experience than Firefox and IE.

I'm using Opera, and Firefox at work.
I can't stand the MS IE, it's akward and clumsy.

I intended to post this in the Mac vs. PC thread, but I decided to make it its own thread rather than drag that one too far off topic. Just don't expect me to respond, I just want my opinon known



Bolded is the relevent part,just change Mac to Firefox

This sort of thing is (almost word for word) why I stay with IE instead of going with Firefox. Sure firefox has all these shiny features but at the end of the day they're just fucking web browsers and I just want one that works for what I intend to do. I don't need something that does a million things I'll never do. And let's not forget Firefox had more security issues (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Browser-Wars-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-vs-Safari-vs-Opera-83045.shtml) than it's main competitor in its last iteration (and don't think that people don't try to exploit them either), and yet I keep getting slammed with people telling me to use it. Seriously, stop it.

It's a web browser, right? Then your main criterion should be how well it does its job.

There are standards for how Web Pages should be written, and for how they should be rendered. The more accurate the rendering, the better the browser is doing its job.

IE is the worst of the modern graphical browsers for this. Firefox is better, Opera and Webkit kick it's ass.

Therefore you should switch, because IE works the worst for what you intend for it to do --- browse the web.

I denounced IE when I found out that when you put something into it's inbuilt search bar and press enter, it just redirects you to the Google home file rather than searching Google for your query. Sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous.

And let's not forget Firefox had more security issues (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Browser-Wars-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-vs-Safari-vs-Opera-83045.shtml) than it's main competitor in its last iteration (and don't think that people don't try to exploit them either)

Yep, I see many Apple-fanboyism around. And I can't understand it. Really, Mac costs a lot and does about the same things any PC does. With the negative of being less flexible hardware-wise.

Also, I tried Firefox and didn't experience any improvement from IE: I experienced problems with Java and PHP instead. So I switched back to IE, and most things run fine.

I denounced IE when I found out that when you put something into it's inbuilt search bar and press enter, it just redirects you to the Google home file rather than searching Google for your query. Sorry, but that's absolutely ridiculous.

I disabled any automatic-inbuilt search thingy. I'm perfectly capable of writing "www.google.com" myself if I need google.

IE is bulky and slow and ugly.

I prefer Firefox but the memory issue that was supposed to have been fixed in 3.0 still seems to be present. It kept locking up before and I had to go into the task manager where I noticed that it was taking up over 1 GB of memory. I only had maybe 15 tabs open, but it had been open for hours which always seems to do it.

I like Safari. It's a lot like Firefox but a bit nicer-looking. I alternate between the two of them, depending on what I'm doing.

I use Firefox, and it seems to work. I am content.

But, this is stupid (http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/). God.

I use Firefox, and it seems to work. I am content.

But, this is stupid (http://www.alternativebrowseralliance.com/). God.

People pour their passion into the most preposterous projects.

I intended to post this in the Mac vs. PC thread, but I decided to make it its own thread rather than drag that one too far off topic. Just don't expect me to respond, I just want my opinon known



Bolded is the relevent part,just change Mac to Firefox

This sort of thing is (almost word for word) why I stay with IE instead of going with Firefox. Sure firefox has all these shiny features but at the end of the day they're just fucking web browsers and I just want one that works for what I intend to do. I don't need something that does a million things I'll never do. And let's not forget Firefox had more security issues (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Browser-Wars-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-vs-Safari-vs-Opera-83045.shtml) than it's main competitor in its last iteration (and don't think that people don't try to exploit them either), and yet I keep getting slammed with people telling me to use it. Seriously, stop it.There was an ad on another forum I'm on. Any IE user was vulnerable, Firefox just blocked it.

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.

Noscript makes it vastly more secure. That's it's best feature.

This sort of thing is (almost word for word) why I stay with IE instead of going with Firefox. Sure firefox has all these shiny features but at the end of the day they're just fucking web browsers and I just want one that works for what I intend to do. I don't need something that does a million things I'll never do. And let's not forget Firefox had more security issues (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Browser-Wars-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-vs-Safari-vs-Opera-83045.shtml) than it's main competitor in its last iteration (and don't think that people don't try to exploit them either), and yet I keep getting slammed with people telling me to use it. Seriously, stop it.

that's why i use Opera. i just want a good web browser.

but actually, i use IE, FF, Opera, and Chrome all for different things

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.

That's absolutely ridiculous. I switched to Firefox before I ever knew anything about the Mac, and it always satisfied me much more than Internet Explorer. And I assure you I didn't think of it in terms of "Microsoft or something else." To me, it was just an issue of browsers, and I didn't know who made each browsers and certainly didn't care. I wanted the better browser (for me), and I found that. That's how it is supposed to be when you're getting a product! Your opinion of the browsers seems to be based more on the brand than my opinion of them or the opinions of my friends and relatives who use Firefox.

Perhaps Internet Explorer is better now (I haven't really used it for a few years), but I used to hate having to be on it for even a minute after switching to Firefox. It seemed unbelievably slow and so unsatisfying. On Firefox right now, I have eight tabs open. I can easily have fifteen+ tabs open. When I used Internet Explorer (at least when it actually had tabs; before that, having multiple windows open was the nightmare), that would have had my browser freezing up all over the place. Of course, like I said, IE may be better now, but it certainly wasn't anything to write home about back when I used it.

I wish people could get that some of us CAN enjoy the alternatives to Microsoft products without being "fanboys." Reading over this thread and the Mac VS. Windows-based PCs thread, though, has actually made me think that the Microsoft "fanboys" are so much worse.

That being said, I'm not enjoying Firefox as much anymore. I can't remember which update it was, but I have been much less satisfied with it ever since a certain update took place. I tried Safari when I first got my Mac (it came with the Mac, of course), but I didn't like it much. I might give it a try again, though, and see if it I like it more now that Firefox isn't entirely pleasing me.

Oh, yeah, and: Firefox is not a Mac/Apple product. Come on now.

Firefox is my preferred browser. I have no problems with it, it works well, it doesn't slow my computer down noticably, I've customized it to my liking by adding different useful add-ons like Adblock and session manager for improved surfing. I like Firefox.

Opera is my secondary browser. I have it as my primary on my laptop. It is just as good as Firefox for my purposes, but I think FF is just a tad more userfriendly. I'm sure that's down to what I'm used to using, though. I like Opera.

I have to use IE at work. I find it to be clumpy and unstable. It has a nasty tendency to crash on me and it lacks a lot of the features that I like with FF and Opera. I sometimes use IE for optimal viewing of certain pages, but... I don't like IE.

Oh man not *this* again...

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.

No it's the fact that my computer works better for what I do with it. Have you even tried linux?

Ah.
People still can't admit that aguy can create a computer company out of his basment that is far superior than a bunch of dorks in suits can make huh?


What? Check ur fact brother linux is an Open Source effort - as is Firefox which means there is no CEO of linux in a suit playing golf laughing all the way to the bank while little hungry software developers toil in front of their desks making the the actual software which makes that guy richer.

As for mac...

Wasn't Mac founded by two guys (one a scruffy sloppy beardy and the other with a penchant for turtlenecks) in a garage and Linux a bunch of open source freaks? What windmill you tiltin' at, dude?

Yeah what that guy said.


I really thought the years of Windows hatin' were over...

C'mon Vista is so bad.

Clicks on icon, 'do you want this program to access the internet' - wait... wait... 'a problem occurred' ...WTF

Give me command line or give me death!

Yep, I see many Apple-fanboyism around. And I can't understand it. Really, Mac costs a lot and does about the same things any PC does. With the negative of being less flexible hardware-wise.


I do agree that the cost is higher... and the hardware is just about exactly the same as any PC now. The reason for the extra cost (for me) is having an easy to use computer which I can install commercial apps on and still compile and run open source software. Oh and I still have my blessed command line!

As for the browser wars... I agree with this guy.

Firefox is my preferred browser. I have no problems with it, it works well, it doesn't slow my computer down noticably, I've customized it to my liking by adding different useful add-ons like Adblock and session manager for improved surfing. I like Firefox.

Opera is my secondary browser. I have it as my primary on my laptop. It is just as good as Firefox for my purposes, but I think FF is just a tad more userfriendly. I'm sure that's down to what I'm used to using, though. I like Opera.

I have to use IE at work. I find it to be clumpy and unstable. It has a nasty tendency to crash on me and it lacks a lot of the features that I like with FF and Opera. I sometimes use IE for optimal viewing of certain pages, but... I don't like IE.

Yeah luckily I never have to use IE except to test my web pages I work on to make sure that the look right in IE. You see, although I hate IE I'm still a nice guy and I make sure everything works right for you despite IE's idiosyncrasies...

Hey and what about lynx - anyone here still use text based browsers sometimes? I know I sure do.

Yep, I see many Apple-fanboyism around. And I can't understand it. Really, Mac costs a lot and does about the same things any PC does. With the negative of being less flexible hardware-wise.

Irrelevant to the topic, but hey.

I use Safari for most Web stuff except porn. I use Firefox for porn *nods*.

I use Safari for most Web stuff except porn. I use Firefox for porn *nods*.

That may have entirely been a joke without even a tiny bit of seriousness, but just in case you were serious or partially serious: why Firefox for porn? What it makes it better for that?

That may have entirely been a joke without even a tiny bit of seriousness, but just in case you were serious or partially serious: why Firefox for porn? What it makes it better for that?

Select any pair of browsers. But remember that most modern browsers will autocomplete URL's you've already typed. If you've been visiting porn sites, this can be awkward at a later point.

Select any pair of browsers. But remember that most modern browsers will autocomplete URL's you've already typed. If you've been visiting porn sites, this can be awkward at a later point.

Ah, right. I see. I tend to clear my history immediately no matter what. That does make sense, though, yes.

Because of adblock plus, and the fact that it's generally quicker, firefox is wayyy better.

Firefox for 2 reasons.

1. Adblock Plus
2. Bookmarks as a drop down menu. Mmm convinience.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with IE, and it has its advantages, such as being compatible with many websites that firefox isn't. Hell, it's literally impossible to do internet banking with firefox.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with IE, and it has its advantages, such as being compatible with many websites that firefox isn't. Hell, it's literally impossible to do internet banking with firefox.

That is not the fault of Firefox. There are standards about how web pages should be written and formatted. Firefox obeys these*. Therefore web pages which display wrong or do not work are not the fault of Firefox, but of crappy web designers.

*To a very reasonable extent. Much more than IE.

And let's not forget Firefox had more security issues (http://news.softpedia.com/news/Browser-Wars-Internet-Explorer-vs-Firefox-vs-Safari-vs-Opera-83045.shtml) than it's main competitor in its last iteration (and don't think that people don't try to exploit them either)
No they didn't. Mozilla revealed more issues when they came up. Then fixed them ASAP. Microsoft doesn't reveal their hundreds of issues until they are fixed once a month.

That site needs a better Symantec link. I found nothing about browser security after following it and looking through 3 different documents.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with IE, and it has its advantages, such as being compatible with many websites that firefox isn't. Hell, it's literally impossible to do internet banking with firefox.
Not Firefox's fault that your bank employs a shitty web designer.

That being said, there is nothing wrong with IE, and it has its advantages, such as being compatible with many websites that firefox isn't. Hell, it's literally impossible to do internet banking with firefox.

IE works much better with sites like Pandora. Firefox uses quite a lot of memory to run the flash on that page, also Youtube and several others.

Firefox for 2 reasons.

1. Adblock Plus
2. Bookmarks as a drop down menu. Mmm convinience.

Opera for two reasons
1. built-in adblock
2. searchable bookmarks as super convenient sidebar ;)

plus...

3. 100% acid3 rating
4. fewer vulnerablities
5. custom searches
6. built-in download manager, including torrents
7. the deleted tabs menu!
8. easily configurable keyboard shortcuts (FF seems so inflexible with its shortcuts, and i hate using the mouse!)
9. easy session saving, resume from last session, lots of options there

yay Opera :p

Opera for two reasons
1. built-in adblock
2. searchable bookmarks as super convenient sidebar ;)

plus...

3. 100% acid3 rating
4. fewer vulnerablities
5. custom searches
6. built-in download manager, including torrents
7. the deleted tabs menu!
8. easily configurable keyboard shortcuts (FF seems so inflexible with its shortcuts, and i hate using the mouse!)
9. easy session saving, resume from last session, lots of options there

yay Opera :p

Firefox has a deleted tabs menu and custom searches (vague on this one, but I think it can be done). And the keyboard shortcuts can be configured, although I don't know how, as I use Conkeror.

Oh, and Fox does session saving, resuming, etc.

Talk about a contradiction.
No, not really.

The new version leaks memory in three places:
- While DLing a video it tends to leak memory even after video is loaded
- Inbuilt Torrent Client leaks memory 100% of the time (fixed in 9.52, broken in 9.60)
- Large file DL in general

As far as IE 6 speed goes, much of it is explained by the lack of support of sophisticated features.
And I'd like to clock firefox overall against other so called light browsers because Opera doesn't seem especially fast to me.
http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

First google result.

Try smooth scrolling to see how fast Opera is, or loading bad js sites, or see how it does with flash, java or other plugins. Then there's the font rendering, not that great.
The smooth scrolling of Opera is still line based, it doesn't scroll "smoothly" so to speak, which is good.

I concur that JS support is crap in 9.5...Had to turn scripts off to access CNN.com (haven't turned them back on though... so I'm uncertain have they fixed the issue in 9.51-9.63).

Font rendering...well...dunno about that. At least Opera has inbuilt zoom - ctrl + mousewheel...which is very, very useful - while somewhat explaining your experience with font rendering.

edit:
But like I said: Due to 9.5 being such turd I'd...

...swap browsers in a heart beat if another browser offered 1) rmb+lmb forward/back function 2) customizable searches & search mnemonics (eg. g, w, a, ud for google, wiki, answers.com & urban dictionary) 3) UI links (have 30ish 1 click bookmark buttons on the interface) and 4) speed dial (new tab = 9 [customizable with an ini edit] "preview" webpages) 5) internal ad & pop-up blocker 6) browser masking (though, FF & IE don't really need this) 7) "Recycle Bin" (ie. easily accessible history of closed tabs) 8) ctrl, shift & new tabs 9) inbuilt zoom

Most new browsers have few of those but only Opera has them all by default ;)

Font rendering...well...dunno about that. At least Opera has inbuilt zoom - ctrl + mousewheel...which is very, very useful - while somewhat explaining your experience with font rendering.
So does Firefox.

Personally I like Firefox. IE has just been a problem for me in the sense that it runs slower Firefox, at least on the networks I have used it. Not to mention every time I try to get rid of IE the system says that if I do I could ruin my comp. If you ask me any program that comes standard on a system and can't be removed even though it isn't vital is a little sketchy.

So does Firefox.
Does it actually zoom or just increase font size?

For example, this reply box* scales with Opera's zoom so that the visible width is 16 letters on my resolution and I can't see the borders @ maximum zoom.

*in "advanced" mode.

it's easier for me to write a web app that works in firefox, than one that works in IE.

if you have noscript on firefox, you're a million times safer than you'll ever be in IE.

chrome is looking nice, but as everyone seems to notice, it's not a finished product yet.

Does it actually zoom or just increase font size?

For example, this reply box* scales with Opera's zoom so that the visible width is 16 letters on my resolution and I can't see the borders @ maximum zoom.

*in "advanced" mode.

Since v3, Firefox scales everything appropriately when you zoom in and out.

Firefox has a deleted tabs menu and custom searches (vague on this one, but I think it can be done). And the keyboard shortcuts can be configured, although I don't know how, as I use Conkeror.

Oh, and Fox does session saving, resuming, etc.

oh yeah, it can... i've largely configured my FF to do all that. but it doesn't do it out of the box, which is what i've come to expect from a browser. it needs a bunch of extensions to do what i want it to do, while Opera just does it, and does it well.

i suppose its the Mac vs Windows thing all over again. Opera/Mac just does what people want out of the box. if you want choice, more expandablility and can be bothered to work out what extensions/programs you need, then go for Firefox/Windows. heh.

Since v3, Firefox scales everything appropriately when you zoom in and out.

that was one of the reasons i started using Opera over FF or IE, though now they all do decent zoom

I first started using Firefox back when IE 6 was all the new rage, and when it basically just kept constantly pissing me off, especially with the security issues and everything.

Firefox introduced me to tabbed browsing, which I've loved, and since then, because I'm me, I've seen no reason to change to anything else, since it's not like I do lots of high security work, and Firefox has some nice add-ons I like.

And I really never liked IE much anyway. Not because it was Microsoft, but simply because it was always pissing me off with one issue or another. Firefox has occasionally too, but nowhere near as often as IE ever did.

oh yeah, it can... i've largely configured my FF to do all that. but it doesn't do it out of the box, which is what i've come to expect from a browser. it needs a bunch of extensions to do what i want it to do, while Opera just does it, and does it well.

i suppose its the Mac vs Windows thing all over again. Opera/Mac just does what people want out of the box. if you want choice, more expandablility and can be bothered to work out what extensions/programs you need, then go for Firefox/Windows. heh.

No, more like the Mac vs Windows vs Linux thing.

Opera/Mac just does most things out of the box, and in a shiny way.

IE/Windows can be expanded, but are horribly insecure, and always several years behind the curve on features.

Firefox/Linux are minimal and limited by default, but are completely and totally reconfigurable and expandable to fit your needs, if you have the time.

Hey and what about lynx - anyone here still use text based browsers sometimes? I know I sure do.

I've never seriously browsed with it, but I did a little when I was installing an OS. It's somethign I should learn to do better though. Also, mutt for email is pretty neat...

Anyway, I use firefox because most of my work is done on either a linux machine or my laptop (which currently only runs os x). I never have any serious problems with it. Sometimes it starts to run slow if I leave it going for weeks on end (as I'm apt to do) but closing it fixes it.

Hey and what about lynx - anyone here still use text based browsers sometimes? I know I sure do.

*Raises hand*

Never lynx, however, because it is the worst of them.

I use w3m or elinks, depending on the particular features I need at that point in time.

Edit: I also use Mutt for email. It's nifty, but takes a while to load when you're up to a few thousand emails.

Firefox/Linux are minimal and limited by default, but are completely and totally reconfigurable and expandable to fit your needs, if you have the time.

I think that's an important statement, there. Firefox isn't by design "complete". There's a set of basic, minimal functions to do what it needs to do - and has the APIs necessary for those that want it to do more to be able to write the extensions desired. But most of us want/expect a web browser to do more than what those basic/minimal functions offer. And FF allows the end-user to pick and chose to customize their "experience" (to use Microsoft-speak).

It's a mental switch people need to make. Instead of being given a pre-packaged program, you're given just what you need and then it's up to you to make it what you want. Some people love that; other's hate it.

No, more like the Mac vs Windows vs Linux thing.

Opera/Mac just does most things out of the box, and in a shiny way.

IE/Windows can be expanded, but are horribly insecure, and always several years behind the curve on features.

Firefox/Linux are minimal and limited by default, but are completely and totally reconfigurable and expandable to fit your needs, if you have the time.
well put! :p

Firefox to me is nothing but hype. I just don't get why it's popular.

It's mostly the same old "FUCK MICROSOFT" rah-rah that drives the popularity of Mac and Linux.

Ah.

People still can't admit that aguy can create a computer company out of his basment that is far superior than a bunch of dorks in suits can make huh?

I really thought the years of Windows hatin' were over...

Ah, but you forget people like me! I love windows... Just not IE. Firefox has always worked a bit faster for me, and I liked the degree of customization. Instead of typing in the first few letters of the site, you can just type the first few letters of the topic. (Helps a lot with NSG) And I also like the different skins. But yeah, there isn't a major difference, but they're both free, so I've always went with Firefox.

Oh, and the spell check.

As far as IE 6 speed goes, much of it is explained by the lack of support of sophisticated features.

Are you blind, or being intentionally annoying? How could you miss the repeated mention of the fact that IE is highly embedded into windows itself, thus the apparent boost in start up speed. But then, if you think once IE is actually running that it's works and displays things faster, you must be seeing things.

And of course, that's just 6, IE 7 is unnecessarily bloated for no reason, though it still tends to start up faster, being IE.

http://nontroppo.org/timer/kestrel_tests/

First google result.

First google result? The dynamics of idiocracy don't prove a thing to me. Who the hell is this nontroppo blog and why should we care? Should I post up 2, 3, more similar sites with total reversed results and you will yield? Sites, sites, sites, just sites. I'll consider my first hand experience with the two browsers more important, thanks.

The smooth scrolling of Opera is still line based, it doesn't scroll "smoothly" so to speak, which is good.

In your opinion. And you can set firefox to line scroll just the same, except you have the option to make it smooth.

Font rendering...well...dunno about that. At least Opera has inbuilt zoom - ctrl + mousewheel...which is very, very useful - while somewhat explaining your experience with font rendering.

No, the smoothing itself is flawed, though I assume you're basing your whole experience on windows, which means the rendering is the same as the OS. And firefox has zoom as well, probably doesn't work the same, I don't remember, but you can 'zoom' pages with ctrl+mouse wheel. Better yet, you want some really nice zooming, use compiz and use it's zoom feature, then you can zoom on the whole desktop.

But ultimately, zooming and lack of smooth scrolling aren't important to me. An all around browser that doesn't fail with flash, java and js is preferable to me, and using 10 different browser is for the birds and an inefficient waste of time, and a bizarre habit from people complaining about memory leaks.

IE is better, it's faster, it's becomeing stronger, it's dangerously virus prone, it hs software that removes virus's, what else can ya ask for?

Firefox has: More secure connection, slower load times, when it crashes it crashes, can royally screw up your pc worse then IE if your not careful.

IE is better, it's faster, it's becomeing stronger, it's dangerously virus prone, it hs software that removes virus's, what else can ya ask for?

Firefox has: More secure connection, slower load times, when it crashes it crashes, can royally screw up your pc worse then IE if your not careful.

And you is, FUD, lie and troll weakly.

I use Firefox over IE because IE is really, really slow on my Vista running computer.

And my friend uses Firefox on her Mac because it's better then Safari.

Firefox is popular because it's simply better, IE is the sort of browser you use as training wheels before you get to play with the good browsers.

That may have entirely been a joke without even a tiny bit of seriousness, but just in case you were serious or partially serious: why Firefox for porn? What it makes it better for that?

Quite serious, no joke.

Firefox does better with Flip4Mac than Safari does. Flip4Mac handles .avi and .wmv files on my Mac perfectly in sync with Quick Time. So the whole porno-viewing package is better in Firefox. Plus yeah, I run Firefox completely dumb (turning off all cookies, memory features, and the like) just in case someone besides me fires it up. Saves any potential embarrassment.

Quite serious, no joke.

Firefox does better with Flip4Mac than Safari does. Flip4Mac handles .avi and .wmv files on my Mac perfectly in sync with Quick Time. So the whole porno-viewing package is better in Firefox. Plus yeah, I run Firefox completely dumb (turning off all cookies, memory features, and the like) just in case someone besides me fires it up. Saves any potential embarrassment.

Chrome has an Incognito Mode which is practically a godsend to anyone who want to browse porn without leaving embarassing trails for other people using the same computer.

Chrome has an Incognito Mode which is practically a godsend to anyone who want to browse porn without leaving embarassing trails for other people using the same computer.

Makes sense, given that many probably search for niche porn via Google. Though it makes me wonder if there's a porn search engine called "Jiigle".

Are you blind, or being intentionally annoying? How could you miss the repeated mention of the fact that IE is highly embedded into windows itself, thus the apparent boost in start up speed. But then, if you think once IE is actually running that it's works and displays things faster, you must be seeing things.
I was explaining the latter.

IE6 is faster than Safari, Opera, IE7 (presumably) or Firefox when rendering pages - I s'pose this is because IE6 can't render modern features and that web designers still reserve a special case for it.

One thing that does impact rendering speed is adblocking, so the only test I can perform shows that IE6 consistently (timed ~5 reloads with a stop watch) renders a certain page with flash ads and whatnot 40% faster than Safari (3 vs 5 secs). It also reserves half-the-CPU power of Safari while browsing the site.

In your opinion. And you can set firefox to line scroll just the same, except you have the option to make it smooth.
A matter of taste.

No, the smoothing itself is flawed
You're complaining about the lack of anti-aliased fonts?

That's not a standard anyways so as a flaw it is a matter of opinion.
Better yet, you want some really nice zooming, use compiz and use it's zoom feature, then you can zoom on the whole desktop.
Assuming you can find the correct display drivers for your vid card and are able to configure the software without having the GUI configurator crash half the time....

...people complaining about memory leaks.
Modular structure tends to do that....oh, wait, you're not talking about Firefox (http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=firefox+memory+leak&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8) now are you? ;)

btw. I still think the best version of Opera is 9.27 which didn't have the issues I complain about 9.5. The only issue it had was slow address bar with 10k+ history. :)

Basically, the reason Firefox was so popular is tabbed browsing. I think that searching is also less intrusive. (I have a small bar at the bottom instead of a search window.) But now, Microsoft has understood that everyone likes tabbed browsing, so they added it in updates.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to what you're more familiar with using. And by this time, I prefer to use Firefox.

Firefox !!
Vista.. now that's something I haven't experienced .. nor do I really want to.
Supposibly IE is better now? So what. Vista sucks for gamers.

I was explaining the latter.

IE6 is faster than Safari, Opera, IE7 (presumably) or Firefox when rendering pages

No it isn't, as I've told you thrice now, at least not faster than Firefox, I don't know about Safari and I don't care. Firefox beats it on the Mac OSX as well.

That's not a standard anyways so as a flaw it is a matter of opinion.

And it goes both ways, you just voided your own argument.

Assuming you can find the correct display drivers for your vid card and are able to configure the software without having the GUI configurator crash half the time.

I'd assume it's better to check at the point of buying hardware if you were going to run it instead of throwing a dart at a bunch of winware and complaining when something fails outside of windows. There are plenty of video cards that have drivers for it at this point, and your inference to something crashing is basically meaningless.

Basically, the reason Firefox was so popular is tabbed browsing.
No, the reason Firefox is so popular is because of lucky timing - IE had stagnated and was full of security holes - and massive lobbying.

Ultimately it became The Browser because using FF became a statement against M$ for the people incapable of or unwilling to actually switch to another OS or actually choose an uncool software.

Tabbed browsing was just a bonus and nothing revolutionary.

No it isn't, as I've told you thrice now
Yes, and I've told you equally many times that it is faster, or at least as fast.

For example, www.sony.com refresh is completed in 9-11 secs regardless of whether I refresh with O9.5, Safari or IE6. Don't have FF (2) installed anymore so can't test that one.
And it goes both ways, you just voided your own argument.
I'm not the one saying either way is flawed, now am I?

I'd assume it's better to check at the point of buying hardware if you were going to run it instead of throwing a dart at a bunch of winware and complaining when something fails outside of windows.
Buy hardware in order to run Compiz? I know it has bloated since Geforce 2 is enough days but...this? :confused: :tongue:

btw. The comp was legacy Athlon 1.2 GHz with Nvidia Riva TNT -> Geforce 2 MX -> Radeon 8500 on X/K/Ubuntu 8.04. Boy, did I curse while setting up the last card and it still crashes on various 3D applications (eg. screensaver, but not for example on Dominions III). For that matter, Compiz didn't work with any of those properly. Not my comp anymore so not my problem either :)

edit:
Well, except that it is...Whenever the person using it needs to do something new I get contacted :D

Yes, and I've told you equally many times that it is faster, or at least as fast.

Then I guess at this point we should just ignore this issue since you showed incapable of proving your claim, and me indifferent to proving the opposite. Believe what you want, it's meaningless. But I do not believe, nor have I personally observed your claim to be even close to true.

Buy hardware in order to run Compiz? I know it has bloated since Geforce 2 is enough days but...this? :confused: :tongue:

If geforce 2 times was the last time you tried compiz, that explains it. Today, buy any recent generation intel video (which are unfortunately only integrated at this point), virtually any nvidia (even geforce2), and many ati cards, and it will work once the driver is running. In the case of Intel video, no assembly required, it should work by default. Compiz is a lot older now.

btw. The comp was legacy Athlon 1.2 GHz with Nvidia Riva TNT -> Geforce 2 MX -> Radeon 8500 on X/K/Ubuntu 8.04. Boy, did I curse while setting up the last card and it still crashes on various 3D applications (eg. screensaver, but not for example on Dominions III). For that matter, Compiz didn't work with any of those properly. Not my comp anymore so not my problem either :)

You think it's supposed to crash? No, there was something wrong with your stuff. Although generally fglrx (ati linux driver) is buggy if you try to run video and 3d games while compiz is switched on. Luckily it can be switched on and off on the fly, and there is work in progress to correct this issue. But this is about a light year from the original point that got to this.

But I do not believe, nor have I personally observed your claim to be even close to true.
Look, I'm first to realize that hearing someone make such a claim is incredulous.

But based on personal testing - which I also did reference - I've noticed that IE6 is among the fastest browsers around when it comes to rendering websites.

It's not the fastest browser to use by any means - ie. given a task, a more modern browser is faster (and on personal use that browser would be Opera) - but on sheer rendering speed IE6 isn't half bad.

The relevance of this is similar to saying Lynx is the fastest browser though :P

If geforce 2 times was the last time you tried compiz
Umm, no - I tried the modern compiz-fusion on a Riva TNT, GF2MX and Radeon 8500.

The reason for my quip was that Compiz was once hailed as speed improvement over 2D rendering even on modest desktop. Alas, now it's more a graphical gimmick/bloatware (while still retaining some useful features). ;)
virtually any nvidia (even geforce2)
Only parts of the Gf2 family and only >= 64 MB cards.

I did get it running on the Gf2MX 32MB - Not that well though.
You think it's supposed to crash? No, there was something wrong with your stuff.
Depends on what you mean.

IIRC the Ati's closed binary Radeon 8500 drivers were no longer supported by 8.04 and this has apparently caused quite a lot of problems with 8.5k at least based on the posts on the ubuntuforums and personal experience (including refresh rate trouble).

Things might've gone differently had I made the installation with 8500 attached...or not.
Although generally fglrx (ati linux driver) is buggy if you try to run video and 3d games while compiz is switched on.
In this case, Compiz is turned off by default.

I'd be able to tell the difference if my computer didn't have so many hardware problems. I use Firefox any ways

The reason for my quip was that Compiz was once hailed as speed improvement over 2D rendering even on modest desktop.

Falsity false Superbollocks.

I can dismiss the rest of your comments since your credibility is weak, at best.

Back in the day I used IE, because I was rather unaware of other options. Then I heard of firefox, and gave it a go, and I liked it, so I kept it. Some time later I tried Opera. It was good, but a bit different, and not so much better that I felt it worth getting used to a new browser, so I went back to firefox. Now I can't really be bothered to even try a new browser, because I just don't care that much. Firefox works fine, and I'm used to it, and I don't need anything better.

*shrug*

I started using Firefox when it had tabbed browsing and IE didn't. Never bothered to switch back, because it's where all my bookmarks are now.

Does it actually zoom or just increase font size?

For example, this reply box* scales with Opera's zoom so that the visible width is 16 letters on my resolution and I can't see the borders @ maximum zoom.

*in "advanced" mode.

You can do both, actually. You can zoom in on the entire thing, OR you can choose to zoom in on only the text.

Reading over all of these comments, I think this is a much sillier debate than the Mac VS. Windows-based PCs debate. All of the browsers seem to have just about all of the options that people will mention as the reasons they like their particular browsers most. I'm actually wanting to try out the other browsers now, just to see how I like them, because they ALLL seem to be pretty great. Though, honestly, I don't like IE. And it may very well be a lot better than it used to be; I won't say that it's horrible, because I don't use it anymore. BUT I know that it was so problematic for me when I used it that I won't bother to switch to it now, because 1) I like what I use, 2) there seem to be other great browsers that are not IE that I haven't yet tried, and 3) I haven't read a single thing that made IE appeal to me at ALL, despite reading messages that made other browsers appeal to me. But all the same, again, they're just browsers, and they all have just about the same stuff. Reading people's lists of why they use their preferred browsers (when they weren't Firefox), I could find myself saying, "erm, yep, Firefox has that too."

I'm really glad about the various options out there, though, and I truly am excited to try Opera. I gave Safari a try after this thread started, but I decided it's pretty much the exact same thing as Firefox. I don't get the "it's prettier" comments, because it looks like pretty much the same thing. I noticed a very small difference when it came to fonts, but Safari didn't actually look better to me. In Firefox, my signature is a lot smaller and more difficult to read (I set it to size 1 on purpose); in Safari, it's bigger and much easier to read. That was one of the differences I noticed as far as appearances go, but I actually liked the way it looked on Firefox more. Oh, I also noticed that the website icons show up in the tabs in Firefox but not on Safari. There may have been a setting I could have tweaked for that, though. I'm sure if I kept using them both and comparing them, I would find even more subtle differences. All in all, though, the browsers seem to be the same on the "main" issues, and there are subtle differences and variations, and it all really DOES come down to a matter of opinion, and it's only natural that we'll all have different tastes/opinions.

That being said, I'm off to try Opera! :D

Chrome has an Incognito Mode which is practically a godsend to anyone who want to browse porn without leaving embarassing trails for other people using the same computer.

Reading this thread has gotten me to try out different browsers, and Safari has something just like that as well, but it's called "private browsing." It looks very quick and easy, which is great. If that were to be set up on Firefox, it seems like it might take a bit more work just to be undone later on. There may be an option like this in Firefox somewhere, but I don't see it. Opera may have something like this also, but I haven't tried Opera yet.

I've found that IE and Chrome are far less likely to crash than recent versions of Firefox with my computer. Yet I continue to use Firefox whether I'm on a Windows or Linux computer just because I like the downloaded theme I have on Firefox. Hurrah for irrationality!:p

So with Safari, so far, here are some basic things I've noticed I like:

1.) There's the private browsing that I mentioned in my last message, which is similar to the incognito mode in Chrome.
2.) There's a very convenient "reset Safari" option, which is similar to Firefox's "clear private data," but it just seems much more convenient, and it will also immediately close your browser (if you choose this option) and reopen it with the data cleared and your homepage all set up and ready for a new browsing session.

And that's really all that I've noticed so far that I like more about Safari than Firefox.

One thing that I really like in Firefox is the "recently closed tabs" section, which holds on to your ten most-recently closed tabs, in case you need to get them back. That's a fairly new feature on Firefox, I believe, and it has come in handy so many times since I noticed it. On Safari, I don't see an equivalent. There's something similar, but there are only the "reopen last closed window" and "reopen all windows from last session" options, but these options don't actually seem to deal with tabs, and when I try them, they open up new browser windows that go straight to my homepage (most likely because I don't have any old browsing sessions yet--only old closed tabs in my current browsing session), so it's really not helpful (to me, at least) at all. There may be something more than this, but I haven't found it yet.

The drag-and-drop option seems to be a bit more comprehensive on Firefox also than on Safari. On Firefox, I can drag an entire tab to my desktop for saving. On Safari, I don't seem to be able to do that.

Additionally, I like the bookmarks options on Firefox MUCH more. I don't really know where to begin with explaining the differences. First of all, I guess, I can't drag a tab to the bookmark toolbar to save it as a bookmark on Safari. I don't like that. Secondly, if I right-click on the tab to save it as a bookmark while having other tabs open, I only get an option to make a bookmark for ALL of the tabs. Similarly, when I right-click the bookmarks toolbar, I only get an option to create a new FOLDER; I don't get an option to create a new single bookmark. I can save a particular tab as a bookmark, but it seems to be only through the "bookmarks" menu at the top that I can do that, and that's a bit of a pain. Even then, it adds all the way to the left of the toolbar instead of to the right of the toolbar, which I don't understand. Yes, I can easily move it, but it makes more sense to me to have new bookmarks go to the right of the bookmark toolbar.

Oh, one other thing. The "x" for closing a tab is on the right side of the tab on Firefox and the left side on Safari. I greatly prefer it on the right side, but that could just be because it's what I'm most used to. I found it slightly annoying having to go to the left to close the tabs.

So anyway. Those are some differences that I've noticed. And like I've already said, certain features may actually be available in all (or many) browsers but just not as easily found in certain browsers. Again, I think it all comes down to this: the browsers are MOSTLY the same and have the same basic functions (for the most part) with a few small differences, and we each get to decide which browser we like most. Isn't that fun!?

d: d: d:

Now, I really am off to try Opera.

I've found that IE and Chrome are far less likely to crash than recent versions of Firefox with my computer. Yet I continue to use Firefox whether I'm on a Windows or Linux computer just because I like the downloaded theme I have on Firefox. Hurrah for irrationality!:p

If you continue to use Firefox, how do you really know that IE and Chrome are far less likely to crash? I'm guessing you use Firefox much more often than the other two browsers. Because of that, it only makes sense that you would experience more crashing in Firefox. d; d; d; (I'm somewhat kidding, by the way. I know you can run little tests/experiments and whatnot, heh.)

My Firefox hardly crashes. When it does, though, I can open everything back up exactly (or almost exactly) as it was, so it doesn't bother me as much anymore. I used to hate crashes, naturally, in all browsers, but browser-makers seem to have gotten good at making it where we don't lose too much when they DO crash.

My boyfriend is on a Windows-based laptop, though, and uses Firefox, and his Firefox crashes SO OFTEN when he uses YouTube. It's honestly annoying. One day, we were watching YouTube videos together on his laptop, and his browser would after just about every video that we watched. We had to restart it nearly twenty times, and then I was fed up. I guess I should have been fed up earlier than that, but I'm patient. (: I don't think my Firefox has crashed even a total of twenty times in all the time that I've used it on this laptop, so I'm happy with it. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the crashing is because of the computer, because of the browser, because of something malignant on the computer, or because of a combination of these reasons. This also helps to account for the differences that we see when some people will swear that Firefox is better while others will swear that IE is better. If our computers work better with one browser than they do with another, it makes sense that we would think the browser that works best with our particular computer is the better browser.

Unless, of course, we look past that and realize that these things vary case by case. :D And I like that you pointed out that Firefox crashes more with YOUR computer, 'cause some people really don't get that how something works on their computer is not necessarily how it's going to work on everyone else's computer.

Alright, so far, I like Opera. I was going to say that I didn't, but after playing around with it a little more, I realized that the things I would have complained about could actually be worked around once I found the other options. I feel like Opera is a little disorganized with the options all over the place and more settings that have to be tweaked to get it how you want it, but once you have everything how you want it, it's probably pretty great.

I really like the start-up dialog. I was actually going to say that I hated how it wouldn't ask me if I wanted to start up a saved session once I opened Opera, but I found that I could have it set to start up with the start-up dialog, so that complaint went right out the window. I like that aspect of it a lot.

And I've found that absolutely everything I'm trying seems much slower to me than my Firefox does. But that doesn't mean that the others are intrinsically slower. I'm sure it has something to do with something else. I don't know what the deal is, but I do imagine that the others would start working faster for me after using them for a while and getting the settings all fixed and whatnot. But who knows. So far, though, Firefox is the fastest for me. I will not assume that it means that it is always the fastest, though.