NationStates Jolt Archive

Seriously. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52H2RcIFpi8)

They're not even talking about the goddamn computers anymore.

Yeah, it's really more of an attack on PCs, rather than advertising anything.

Yeah, it's really more of an attack on PCs, rather than advertising anything.

Not even, it's more of a direct attack on Microsoft and Windows in particular. The PC is always a whiny caricature of Bill Gates after all.

Seriously. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52H2RcIFpi8)

They're not even talking about the goddamn computers anymore.

Right. And they're the first company to produce ads that don't directly reference the product. I don't know what's sadder, the ads themselves, the attention drawn to them by PC fans who complain about them, or the Mac fans who defend them.

There's a possibility that this may backfire on Apple.

Right. And they're the first company to produce ads that don't directly reference the product. I don't know what's sadder, the ads themselves, the attention drawn to them by PC fans who complain about them, or the Mac fans who defend them.

The ads.
Seriously.
I've got a hard-core apple fan sitting at home, and even he finds them annoying by now. Although he finds Microsoft's reply to them even more annoying... :D

Advertising.
Advertising.
Advertising.
Fix Apple.
Advertising.
Advertising.
Advertising.
Fix Apple.


:tongue:

I agree, they've run their course.

Alas, with Snow Leopard coming out before MS7, and with some fancy technology to do with drawing unused power from all the processors, I suspect the gloating nature of these ads is going to get worse.

I'd really hope they stop and switch to promoting Mac features alone but I doubt it.

They're just supposed to be funny. That's the new thing in the advertisement world in general. Make a funny commercial, and sell your product. What commercials talk about the products? As far as I can tell, they hardly advertise the product anymore. They just make entertaining commercials. And that was an entertaining one.

By the way, I pretty much dislike advertising altogether.

They're just supposed to be funny. That's the new thing in the advertisement world in general. Make a funny commercial, and sell your product. What commercials talk about the products? As far as I can tell, they hardly advertise the product anymore. They just make entertaining commercials. And that was an entertaining one.

By the way, I pretty much dislike advertising altogether.

It's hardly a new concept, funny ads.
There have been TV shows with the funniest ads from all over the globe for decades now.

It doesn't have to be a new concept to be the new "thing." It's what is in. It's what all the commercials are doing. It's less about Apple and more about the advertisement world as a whole.

I'm not defending them. As I ended my last message, I'm not fond of these ads or any ads at all. However, I don't think these particular commercials are any worse than the others. They've got a trend going in their commercials, and they're probably going to stick to it for a while, because it's recognizable and therefore memorable and will help their product stick in the minds of others. That's how advertisement works. It's about selling the product.

Also, being annoyed by ads and gimmicks is also not a new concept. What DOES seem to be new, though, is the interest in advertisements. There's a new show that highlights the best commercials. Commercials are all over YouTube and commented on. People love commercials, love talking about commercials, love discussing which product has the best commercials, etc. And why is that? Because the commercials are becoming more and more about entertainment and less about the product. That's just how it is, and Apple certainly isn't headlining that.

It doesn't have to be a new concept to be the new "thing." It's what is in. It's what all the commercials are doing. It's less about Apple and more about the advertisement world as a whole.

I'm not defending them. As I ended my last message, I'm not fond of these ads or any ads at all. However, I don't think these particular commercials are any worse than the others. They've got a trend going in their commercials, and they're probably going to stick to it for a while, because it's recognizable and therefore memorable and will help their product stick in the minds of others. That's how advertisement works. It's about selling the product.

Also, being annoyed by ads and gimmicks is also not a new concept. What DOES seem to be new, though, is the interest in advertisements. There's a new show that highlights the best commercials. Commercials are all over YouTube and commented on. People love commercials, love talking about commercials, love discussing which product has the best commercials, etc. And why is that? Because the commercials are becoming more and more about entertainment and less about the product. That's just how it is, and Apple certainly isn't headlining that.

But that's just it, these ads aren't funny any more, they've lost all their wit and such.

But that's just it, these ads aren't funny any more, they've lost all their wit and such.

Well, I can't speak for the MAC ads, but there are always a good few ads out there that make me laugh.
The Irish MacDonald's christmas ad has me chuckling every time I see it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-JdC04vBik
:p

But that's just it, these ads aren't funny any more, they've lost all their wit and such.

I'm not one to argue about that. Personally, I don't think I've EVER really found a commercial to be funny. I guess I'm lacking in the sense-of-humor department.

That's rather subjective, though, and there are obviously people who DO think these commercials are funny. But for these particular commercials, it's not just about the entertainment but also about having a gimmick that sticks. For Apple, their gimmick is the PC versus Mac thing and the odd, awkward little communications that take place between the two.

What about the Alltell commercials that have all of the services against the one new service that happens to always be around? And they incorporate some wizard? Those are pretty annoying to me too. There are plenty of commercials along these lines. They're all annoying.

Back to the original post, yeah, they could definitely benefit from putting some more information about the product in. Verizon does a pretty good job of making "amusing" commercials with a gimmick while also featuring something about the product that they think makes them better than other similar products. As a matter of fact, my boyfriend always comments that he likes those commercials when we see them, haha.

My only problem with this is that it's definitely not just Apple doing this. I hardly ever know what is being advertised in commercials anymore. They're so vague and contain very little focus on the actual product. But yep, the merging of the entertainment and actual advertisement of a particular PRODUCT should be worked on--in all of the advertisements that are lacking in this area, including those Mac advertisements.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-JdC04vBik
:p

hehe, that's good

What does Mac have, like 10% of the computer market? You'd think that PC people could unclench...

What does Mac have, like 10% of the computer market? You'd think that PC people could unclench...

What they lack in market share they make up for in plain arrogance, though ;)

What they lack in market share they make up for in plain arrogance, though ;)

Especially when someone has a PC problem, no matter how minor, and the Mac fanboys first response is "buy a Mac".

Especially when someone has a PC problem, no matter how minor, and the Mac fanboys first response is "buy a Mac".

Without realising that nothing works on a Mac.

As the old joke goes, Apple might produce a solar powered energy efficient car, but it only works on 5% of the roads.

Seriously. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52H2RcIFpi8)

They're not even talking about the goddamn computers anymore.

If they are really getting to you, ignore them, don't watch them, swear and switch over, or in the immortal words of TV 'why don't you just switch off the television set and go out and do something less boring instead'

If they are really getting to you, ignore them, don't watch them, swear and switch over, or in the immortal words of TV 'why don't you just switch off the television set and go out and do something less boring instead'

You mean like posting on an internet forum? ;)

You mean like posting on an internet forum? ;)

Heheheh indeed!:D

Without realising that nothing works on a Mac.

As the old joke goes, Apple might produce a solar powered energy efficient car, but it only works on 5% of the roads.

Speaking of old, that's an outdated complaint. Pretty much everything works on Macs now. In addition to that, if you really want to, you can use Boot Camp to get Windows on your Mac.

There was only one program I had to go without after I switched from a Windows computer to a Macbook, and that was IrfanView. There were plenty of alternatives to that, though.

Speaking of old, that's an outdated complaint. Pretty much everything works on Macs now. In addition to that, if you really want to, you can use Boot Camp to get Windows on your Mac.

There was only one program I had to go without after I switched from a Windows computer to a Macbook, and that was IrfanView. There were plenty of alternatives to that, though.

So...basically you buy a Mac, and then have to run windows on top of it to get anything good to work?

Speaking of old, that's an outdated complaint. Pretty much everything works on Macs now. In addition to that, if you really want to, you can use Boot Camp to get Windows on your Mac.

There was only one program I had to go without after I switched from a Windows computer to a Macbook, and that was IrfanView. There were plenty of alternatives to that, though.

What about games?

Personaly I don't much prefer one above the other, I use a PC coz it's cheaper, no style over substance which is just what you pay for with a Mac.

So...basically you pay though your nose to buy a Mac, and then have to run windows on top of it to get anything good to work?

Fixed. :D

So...basically you buy a Mac, and then have to run windows on top of it to get anything good to work?

Um, hardly. Did you even read what I typed? People CAN use Windows on their Macs if they want to. That does not appeal to me, and I, personally, don't know why anyone would want to. The option is there, though, for those who really wish to.

However, as I said, most everything already works on Macs. Macs have gained in popularity a lot, so program-makers are getting smart and making programs that work on Macs as well. Additionally, there are alternatives to almost everything, just as Mac computers are alternatives to Windows-based computers. For any popular, well-known program that is used on Windows computers, there are great alternatives for Macs if those well-known programs don't work on Macs (though, as I said, most already do). For instance, I use NeoOffice on my Mac, and I think it's absolutely great. I love it. And it's free. So I don't have to go with Microsoft Office, which, by the way, is also available for Macs.

Name one program that you can use on a Windows computer that you can't use on a Mac that doesn't have a viable alternative.

Name one program that you can use on a Windows computer that you can't use on a Mac that doesn't have a viable alternative.

heh can't do that but as the old one goes there is somthing that you can do on a PC hat you can't do on a Mac.




Yep right click!:D

What about games?

What about them? I'm not much of a gamer myself--when I was looking into getting a Mac, I really only wanted it for the reliability after getting an HP that I hatehateHATED--but I know that quite a few games are already available to Macs and when they have new versions they make sure to be available for Macs right away. Other games might take a little while longer to come to Mac.

And ah, THAT might be the reason some people desire to use Boot Camp! Games. Ahh. That would make sense.

Which games do you play?

Name one program that you can use on a Windows computer that you can't use on a Mac that doesn't have a viable alternative.

Most games, the majority of 3d design software including 3ds Max. You can tell yourself that developers are making software for Macs, but they are far and few in between. Reality doesn't coincide with that stance.

Also the fact that you can't upgrade a Mac. Period.

Fixed. :D

I definitely agree with that. When I decided to get my first laptop, I went with an HP laptop for around $800. It pretty much crashed on me right away, and there was so much needless crap on it when I first got it. I hated it. I think that pretty much pushed me over to getting a Mac, simply because I didn't want those types of troubles again. But I sure did have to a pay a pretty penny, and I'm not sure they're worth that much more. Who knows, though.

But I don't use Boot Camp, and I don't have any problems with not being able to use programs that I like. I used to do a lot of graphic-making, so I was bothered when I first switched to the Mac and certain lesser-known programs weren't available to me. But I ended up finding a ton of great imaging programs available for the Mac.

In fact, regardless of what type of computer a person is using, there are TONS of alternatives to all the popular programs/sites/products, etc. They're worth looking into.

And that goes for MP3 players too, which I'm guessing a lot of people here may agree with, since some of you don't seem too happy about Apple products. d: The iPod isn't the only functional MP3 player, even though it's the most well-known. And that's the same way it is with the programs. There are well-known programs that most people use on Windows. Most of them are compatible with Macs now. But for those that aren't, there are great alternatives.

I'm happy with my Macbook. It has been 13 months since I got it, and I haven't had a single problem with it. That doesn't mean that I think Windows computers aren't as good, though. My boyfriend hates Macs. It just depends on the computer user.

I definitely agree with that. When I decided to get my first laptop, I went with an HP laptop for around $800. It pretty much crashed on me right away, and there was so much needless crap on it when I first got it. I hated it. I think that pretty much pushed me over to getting a Mac, simply because I didn't want those types of troubles again. But I sure did have to a pay a pretty penny, and I'm not sure they're worth that much more. Who knows, though.

I'm happy with my Macbook. It has been 13 months since I got it, and I haven't had a single problem with it. That doesn't mean that I think Windows computers aren't as good, though. My boyfriend hates Macs. It just depends on the computer user.

I'm a cheapskate. I got my IBM Thinkpad on ebay for 250 Euros, about 3 years ago. It's still going strong, only the battery is fucked by now. I don't think I'd ever be willing to pay more than 300 Euros for any kind of computer.

Most games, the majority of 3d design software including 3ds Max. You can tell yourself that developers are making software for Macs, but they are far and few in between. Reality doesn't coincide with that stance.

Also the fact that you can't upgrade a Mac. Period.

Yeah, someone else mentioned games. Not being a gamer myself, those didn't come to mind at all. I do know that quite a few games ARE available for Macs, though.

Additionally, I actually use a Mac and continually see all of the great programs that are available, so I'm guessing you're the one not agreeing with reality. Just the other day, I needed to find a comic book reader. My friend, who uses a Windows computer and who was the one who wanted me to find the comic book reader in the first place, ended up using a different reader from the one I used, because the one he used was not available for the Mac. However, the alternative that I got was a great alternative and worked just as well as his did.

I also recently was looking at the different BitTorrent clients available on Macs, and there were great alternatives in that case as well.

Imaging programs, office programs, games (quite a few), messaging programs, etc. There is tons of software available for Macs.

As far as not being able to upgrade goes, how do you figure?

I'm a cheapskate. I got my IBM Thinkpad on ebay for 250 Euros, about 3 years ago. It's still going strong, only the battery is fucked by now. I don't think I'd ever be willing to pay more than 300 Euros for any kind of computer.

That might do for a laptop, but not for me. Especially when you're using it mostly for high spec graphics work and gas physics simulation, so I pay a hefty price for performance.

I'm a cheapskate. I got my IBM Thinkpad on ebay for 250 Euros, about 3 years ago. It's still going strong, only the battery is fucked by now. I don't think I'd ever be willing to pay more than 300 Euros for any kind of computer.

I don't know if I did the conversions right or not, but I...don't think they sell computers that cheap around here. I mean, used maybe. Was it a used Thinkpad?

As long as it works and satisfies your needs, that's really all there is to worry about. I was buying my first laptop, and I KNEW I wouldn't have another chunk of money like that for quite some time, and after the HP laptop really failed me, the Mac just seemed worth it to me. But yeah, if I did the conversions right, it was about three times the price of what you paid. I can't ever disagree there. The Macs are definitely expensive and perhaps unreasonably so. The one I currently have would be cheaper for buyers now, though, because it isn't their "new" model, heh. (:

That might do for a laptop, but not for me. Especially when you're using it mostly for high spec graphics work and gas physics simulation, so I pay a hefty price for performance.

True, but then I'm just a run-of-the-mill user... not much into graphics, not much into gaming... I'm using the computer for social networking and information, mostly.

I don't know if I did the conversions right or not, but I...don't think they sell computers that cheap around here. I mean, used maybe. Was it a used Thinkpad?

As long as it works and satisfies your needs, that's really all there is to worry about. I was buying my first laptop, and I KNEW I wouldn't have another chunk of money like that for quite some time, and after the HP laptop really failed me, the Mac just seemed worth it to me. But yeah, if I did the conversions right, it was about three times the price of what you paid. I can't ever disagree there. The Macs are definitely expensive and perhaps unreasonably so. The one I currently have would be cheaper for buyers now, though, because it isn't their "new" model, heh. (:

It is used. I don't see the point in buying new laptops or computers, much as I wouldn't buy a new car.
The additional money you pay is in no relation to any assumed better performance.

heh can't do that but as the old one goes there is somthing that you can do on a PC hat you can't do on a Mac.




Yep right click!:D
A new mouse costs like $5, and then you can right click to your little heart's content.
Having only one button on the touchpad is annoying, but most aspects of using a laptop keyboard are.

Yeah, someone else mentioned games. Not being a gamer myself, those didn't come to mind at all. I do know that quite a few games ARE available for Macs, though.

Few and far in between.


Additionally, I actually use a Mac and continually see all of the great programs that are available, so I'm guessing you're the one not agreeing with reality.


Great by your standards, maybe. Not by mine. A lot of flashy things, but not much substance that others haven't done better.


My friend, who uses a Windows computer and who was the one who wanted me to find the comic book reader in the first place, ended up using a different reader from the one I used, because the one he used was not available for the Mac. However, the alternative that I got was a great alternative and worked just as well as his did.

Congratulations, you found a Mac version of C-Display. Is that supposed to impress me?

You like your Mac, we get it. But you're not going to convince me of it's supposed superiority anytime soon.


As far as not being able to upgrade goes, how do you figure?

Try replacing the processor, or optical drives. How about sound cards? Graphics cards? Want to swap out the motherboard but keep the components? Tough, you're out of luck.

And that's not counting the software side optimization you can do on a PC. No luck getting that out of a Mac.

heh can't do that but as the old one goes there is somthing that you can do on a PC hat you can't do on a Mac.




Yep right click!:D

You're quite right that it is old. That's yet ANOTHER outdated complaint. See, these are the types of complaints that frustrated me a lot right after I got my Macbook. When I was trying to decide whether or not to get one, I was asking people what they thought of the Macs. The complaints were always the same. They dealt with compatibility issues and very small differences like right-clicking. Well, with my laptop, I CAN get the same function as a right-click, simply by pressing "control" at the same time as I click. That's no problem at all for me. Butttt what I prefer is to just have a wireless mouse plugged in, and my mouse HAS a right-click button. It really depends on the mouse a person buys. Mine has a right-click button, so...obviously I CAN right-click.

I have always preferred to have an actual mouse in the first place. I've never liked the built-in mouse pads on laptops. Ever. I like to be able to move the mouse aroud, haha. I'm not sure why, but it just feels less restricted.

Name one program that you can use on a Windows computer that you can't use on a Mac that doesn't have a viable alternative.

Word Processing.

Yeah, I know there are other 'word processors' out there that 'do the same thing', but there's good reason Mac's have been porting Office for the last few years-- people are buying macs, thinking they're the hoot, and realizing, oh shit, I don't have excel, how the hell do I draw a pie graph with my leet photoshop skills.

The real bottom line is this, name one program, that Windows doesn't have, that Macs do have. As that Youtube video points out, Windows has a *lot* of the stuff Macs profess at being better at, but does it on a budget.

You're quite right that it is old. That's yet ANOTHER outdated complaint. See, these are the types of complaints that frustrated me a lot right after I got my Macbook. When I was trying to decide whether or not to get one, I was asking people what they thought of the Macs. The complaints were always the same. They dealt with compatibility issues and very small differences like right-clicking. Well, with my laptop, I CAN get the same function as a right-click, simply by pressing "control" at the same time as I click. That's no problem at all for me. Butttt what I prefer is to just have a wireless mouse plugged in, and my mouse HAS a right-click button. It really depends on the mouse a person buys. Mine has a right-click button, so...obviously I CAN right-click.

I have always preferred to have an actual mouse in the first place. I've never liked the built-in mouse pads on laptops. Ever. I like to be able to move the mouse aroud, haha. I'm not sure why, but it just feels less restricted.

Compliant? No man, it was a joke!

Few and far in between.



Great by your standards, maybe. Not by mine. A lot of flashy things, but not much substance that others haven't done better.



Congratulations, you found a Mac version of C-Display. Is that supposed to impress me?

You talk big about alternatives, but you never think about the utility or flexibility of them. A wooden peg might work as an alternative to your foot. Me, I'll stick with something I'm quite proficient at.



Try replacing the processor, or optical drives. How about sound cards? Graphics cards? Want to swap out the motherboard but keep the components? Tough, you're out of luck.

And that's not counting the software side optimization you can do on a PC. No luck getting that out of a Mac.

You're a real bitter one, aren't you? So the Mac doesn't suit your needs, that's fine. You can argue all you want, but I'm actually using a Mac laptop on a day-to-day basis, and I haven't ever been simply "out of luck" with my laptop. There is, as I've already said, tons of software available.

And that part about the wooden peg was just stupid. When I say "great alternatives," it's because they're great alternatives. They're plenty great as far as utility goes, and there's certainly a whole hell of a lot of flexibility. But there's definitely nothing wrong with sticking with something you're good at. Denying facts just to rationalize why you stick with something you're good at is pretty useless, though.

You're a real bitter one, aren't you?


It's a reflex action. The last Mac fan here was annoying with arguments of how a titanium shell Macbook was structurally superior to a much cheaper and prettier to a cheaper laptop with better hardware and a padded carrying case when what the OP of that thread wanted was a cheap, decent performance laptop.


So the Mac doesn't suit your needs, that's fine. You can argue all you want, but I'm actually using a Mac laptop on a day-to-day basis, and I haven't ever been simply "out of luck" with my laptop. There is, as I've already said, tons of software available.


Nice try at mixing arguments. I talk about being out of luck with hardware upgrades on a Mac, desktops in case I wasn't clear, and you're talking about out of luck with software?

It is used. I don't see the point in buying new laptops or computers, much as I wouldn't buy a new car.
The additional money you pay is in no relation to any assumed better performance.

Well, sometimes it is. It's not always the case, though, no. If your laptop has already been going strong for three years, you have definitely proven that the extra money isn't necessary. I don't think a used laptop would have worked well for me for three years, though. I tend to have a lot of stuff going on at once when I'm using the laptop, and I can very easily be on the Internet for hours at a time.

I admire your point of view. I really do. I hate wasting money on things, when it isn't necessary. When it comes to technology, though, I guess that's where I tend to be a little different, at least when it comes to what will already be expensive purchases for me anyway. I would rather put in a little extra money to not have to worry. But you're right that it isn't exactly necessary.

I paid $20 for my DVD player. It's a very BASIC DVD player. It has only three buttons on it. (: It's fine for me, though.

When it came to my laptop, I viewed it differently, because I wanted to make sure that I had something that would last and would work well for me. I guess it's paying a little extra for the peace of mind. Yours sounds pretty great, though, for still running strong. One would expect the battery to be pretty out of shape after three years anyway. With that being the only problem, that's pretty amazing.

Word Processing.

Yeah, I know there are other 'word processors' out there that 'do the same thing', but there's good reason Mac's have been porting Office for the last few years-- people are buying macs, thinking they're the hoot, and realizing, oh shit, I don't have excel, how the hell do I draw a pie graph with my leet photoshop skills.

The real bottom line is this, name one program, that Windows doesn't have, that Macs do have. As that Youtube video points out, Windows has a *lot* of the stuff Macs profess at being better at, but does it on a budget.

Keynote is simply far better than Powerpoint, there's little denying it, I don't use Pages or Numbers because PCs don't read them.

The reason I use Office is compatibility, even then I try not to use Powerpoint where possible.

PCs are far more versatile than Macs, no question, there's far more manufacturers, far more programmers and more.

The reason I bought Mac, however, is that I just didn't want to load up Windows, that's a personal preference for a little change, and beyond that there's really little point debating between the two, it's another laptop.

I thought about getting a Mac, in the end though I went for dark brown overcoat instead.

Word Processing.

Yeah, I know there are other 'word processors' out there that 'do the same thing', but there's good reason Mac's have been porting Office for the last few years-- people are buying macs, thinking they're the hoot, and realizing, oh shit, I don't have excel, how the hell do I draw a pie graph with my leet photoshop skills.

The real bottom line is this, name one program, that Windows doesn't have, that Macs do have. As that Youtube video points out, Windows has a *lot* of the stuff Macs profess at being better at, but does it on a budget.

I've already said that Microsoft Office (excuse the typo) IS available on Macs. And yep, there are great alternatives. I love the free NeoOffice, and I loved the free Microsoft Works when I was using a Windows computer. I wouldn't use Office anyway. But it IS available for the Mac.

Keynote is simply far better than Powerpoint, there's little denying it, I don't use Pages or Numbers because PCs don't read them.

The reason I use Office is compatibility, even then I try not to use Powerpoint where possible.

PCs are far more versatile than Macs, no question, there's far more manufacturers, far more programmers and more.

The reason I bought Mac, however, is that I just didn't want to load up Windows, that's a personal preference for a little change, and beyond that there's really little point debating between the two, it's another laptop.

Agreed, on that last paragraph. Everyone has his or her own personal reason for getting a particular computer. I wanted something reliable, simple, and a little different. But it's true: it's just another laptop.

It's a reflex action. The last Mac fan here was annoying with arguments of how a titanium shell Macbook was structurally superior to a much cheaper and prettier to a cheaper laptop with better hardware and a padded carrying case when what the OP of that thread wanted was a cheap, decent performance laptop.

Nice try at mixing arguments. I talk about being out of luck with hardware upgrades on a Mac, desktops in case I wasn't clear, and you're talking about out of luck with software?

Well, I'm not a Mac "fan;" I'm simply a Mac user whose tired of being told that nothing works on Macs, when I've had NO PROBLEM with my Mac and haven't had to simply do without anything. I may have to use different programs from the more popular, better-recognized programs, but that's no problem for me. In fact, it has been fun, because these different programs also have different capabilities and features, and it's fun experimenting. (:

And if someone suggested a Macbook when the OP wanted something that was cheap and just "decent," that person was pretty idiotic. That's not me, however. You don't need to have your reflexes set to fighting mode. d:

As to the last paragraph, arguments evolve, and this one is no different. You've already mentioned being out of luck with software and even said the "few and far between" again in that message, and that's still wrong and is still the part I was talking about. d: But enough of this. Let's, uh, have some tea and be nice? d:

It's a reflex action. The last Mac fan here was annoying with arguments of how a titanium shell Macbook was structurally superior to a much cheaper and prettier to a cheaper laptop with better hardware and a padded carrying case when what the OP of that thread wanted was a cheap, decent performance laptop.



Nice try at mixing arguments. I talk about being out of luck with hardware upgrades on a Mac, desktops in case I wasn't clear, and you're talking about out of luck with software?

PS. I only use a Mac laptop. For desktop computers, I've only used Windows-based computers, and I've been happy with all of them. I haven't been happy with the Windows laptops I've tried, though. They freeze and crash on me wayyy too much. That could just be because of how I use them, though.

Well, sometimes it is. It's not always the case, though, no. If your laptop has already been going strong for three years, you have definitely proven that the extra money isn't necessary. I don't think a used laptop would have worked well for me for three years, though. I tend to have a lot of stuff going on at once when I'm using the laptop, and I can very easily be on the Internet for hours at a time.

I admire your point of view. I really do. I hate wasting money on things, when it isn't necessary. When it comes to technology, though, I guess that's where I tend to be a little different, at least when it comes to what will already be expensive purchases for me anyway. I would rather put in a little extra money to not have to worry. But you're right that it isn't exactly necessary.

I paid $20 for my DVD player. It's a very BASIC DVD player. It has only three buttons on it. (: It's fine for me, though.

When it came to my laptop, I viewed it differently, because I wanted to make sure that I had something that would last and would work well for me. I guess it's paying a little extra for the peace of mind. Yours sounds pretty great, though, for still running strong. One would expect the battery to be pretty out of shape after three years anyway. With that being the only problem, that's pretty amazing.

I hate to advertise, but IMHO, there are very few laptops out there as reliable and durable as the IBM (or now Lenovo) Thinkpads.
I worked with them in my job, and knew I'd be getting value for money when buying a 2nd hand one. A lot of my colleagues would have bought their work laptop off the company when they got newer versions, and those things can easily last you ten years or more.

The reason I bought Mac, however, is that I just didn't want to load up Windows, that's a personal preference for a little change, and beyond that there's really little point debating between the two, it's another laptop.

I'm looking into installing Linux....there's some niffty things out there.

I hate to advertise, but IMHO, there are very few laptops out there as reliable and durable as the IBM (or now Lenovo) Thinkpads.
I worked with them in my job, and knew I'd be getting value for money when buying a 2nd hand one. A lot of my colleagues would have bought their work laptop off the company when they got newer versions, and those things can easily last you ten years or more.

I don't mind the advertising, especially when it comes to this topic, 'cause that is what I worried most about when I bought my laptop. It seemed the most reliable and secure, and I wanted something that would last quite some time. There are only a few things that I regularly buy, like shampoo, conditioner, deodorant, food, etc. d: When it comes to other things like televisions, computers, couches, cameras, anything like that, I want things that last. I'll have to look into the Thinkpads.

I thought about getting a Mac, in the end though I went for dark brown overcoat instead.
Damn you and your sparkling wordplay!

The reason I bought Mac, however, is that I just didn't want to load up Windows, that's a personal preference for a little change, and beyond that there's really little point debating between the two, it's another laptop.
should have gone with ubuntu... its free and totally excellent :P

edit: though i use vista for the most part cos our office is windows based

My own personal anecdotes on the Mac/PC thing. YMMV.

I learned on a Mac in grade school. Mac back in the early 80s were given free to schools in mass numbers to create adult customers. I never owned a home computer (nor did most people back then) After college i dated a woman that had a mac so when i bought my own first home computer i bought a Mac because she already had software i could copy and it was also what i learned on in school. So ive been an Apple user for a quarter century now.

My brother, who is in his mid 50s (and has 2 teenage boys), was getting so frustrated with his PCs. They constantly broke down, one day he had his cable shut off and he called the company and they told him in the last hour his computer just sent out 150,000 emails. I used to mention on occasion that he should get a Mac. But lets face it, a 50+ year old guy whos not a computer expert really doesnt want to go thru the trouble of learning a brand new operating system. But he eventually got so frustrated and after my laughing at him over his string of troubles over the years when ive always been 100% problem free my entire life, he broke down and bought an imac. (The only thing ive ever had go wrong with a Mac was i eventually burned out an internal replacable battery once or twice over the years)

That first purchase was 8 months ago, since then he has replaced all 5 computers in the house with Macs, the PCs are either packed away or in the garbage and he couldnt be happier and he wishes he listened to me 10 years ago.

My gf is a Nurse and was also a lifelong PCer, and as a nurse lives on computers. She had never even considered a Mac, never even touched one, then she saw me using mine and to make a long story short, her old laptop is in the trash and she has one of the new aluminum Mac laptops and couldnt be happier. She says the drag and drop abilities of Mac make it worth it alone.

On the topic of the Mac ads i love them. I have had Tivo since it was invented and in general refuse to watch commercials period but i will stop a fastforward and watch a new Mac ad. Not all of them are great but a higher % of them make me chuckle then any other ad for any other item i ever see on TV. Microsoft thought that being funny was easy. So they threw alot of money at Seinfeld and thought problem solved. Sound familiar? Was there anyone that thought either of those Seinfeld/Bill Gates ads wernt disasters?

Finally, advice for Non Aligned states, Buy a Mac.

Finally, advice for Non Aligned states, Buy a Mac.

Either this is some kind of sarcasm based rile-me-up attempt, or you're serious and can be written off as a fanboy.

Actually, based on your long ramble of unsubstantiated "Ooh shininess" Mac advocacy, which looks almost copy pasted with a few word changes from similar "testimonies", it sounds like a bunch of crock.

Either this is some kind of sarcasm based rile-me-up attempt, or you're serious and can be written off as a fanboy.

Actually, based on your long ramble of unsubstantiated "Ooh shininess" Mac advocacy, which looks almost copy pasted with a few word changes from similar "testimonies", it sounds like a bunch of crock.

LMAO my brother and girlfriend will be happy to know ive cut and pasted them into existence. Reality is a bitch NAS, deal with it.

http://i229.photobucket.com/albums/ee307/malsterling99/CADNobody.jpg

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comics/20021126.jpg

I'm looking into installing Linux....there's some niffty things out there.

should have gone with ubuntu... its free and totally excellent :P

edit: though i use vista for the most part cos our office is windows based

I experimented with Ubuntu about 3 years ago on a Sony Viao I had at the time, it seemed a little clunky so I went with Mac when the Viao died.

I've said before that I'd like to switch to Linux, I prefer the concept over both Windows and Mac, I'm just waiting until it's usable and perhaps it already is.

I suspect, for my next laptop, I'll go with Linux.

It's the principle, I prefer open source and variety as long as compatibility is there, for that I do somewhat respect MS for at least creating something that anyone could use, share and collaborate with.

-crap-
It is snotty stuff like that which makes PC users deserve to be assaulted with every terrible Mac ad in the world.
And, yeah, I know that is in response to the ads, but the obnoxious superiority complex has been around for decades.

Yea nobody likes Apples except for the people that voted it Americas #1 company and the people that have put $26,000,000,000 into Apples bank accounts to sit and rot for no good reason.

Seriously, for every theoretical (I hardly ever see them) supposed Mac 'fanboy' that commits some nefarious faux pas like, I don't know, preferring something you don't, there is a five page long gaggle of PC whiners complaining about it.

Seriously, get over it. It's just a fucking computer. If even 50% of 10% of the market is happy with their purchase it's hardly a reason for the other 90% to throw a fucking tizzy fit every time they see an apple with a bite out of it.

Yea nobody likes Apples except for the people that voted it Americas #1 company and the people that have put $26,000,000,000 into Apples bank accounts to sit and rot for no good reason.

http://cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/market-share-operating-systems.jpg

So what does that say about Windows?

It is snotty stuff like that which makes PC users deserve to be assaulted with every terrible Mac ad in the world.
And, yeah, I know that is in response to the ads, but the obnoxious superiority complex has been around for decades.

Right, responding to Mac ads with similarly dismissive stuff is what causes PC users to "deserve to be assaulted" with those very Mac ads they're responding to. Terribly circular logic, there.

Reminds me of the John McCain ads on Obama. *nod*

http://cybernetnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/market-share-operating-systems.jpg

So what does that say about Windows?

I dont know what it says about Windows but it says that Mac increased its sales almost 30% in a year O.O

I dont know what it says about Windows but it says that Mac increased its sales almost 30% in a year O.O

And still fails to cover even 10% of the market...

And still fails to cover even 10% of the market...

As do Mercedes and BMWs

So do Mercedes and BMWs

Who work in a much more diverse market to begin with. Seriously, Apple have one big competitor - 1, a single one, and they can't wrestle 10% market share from it.... pityful.

Right, responding to Mac ads with similarly dismissive stuff is what causes PC users to "deserve to be assaulted" with those very Mac ads they're responding to. Terribly circular logic, there.
Well, no, if you actually read my words you would have noticed that I acknowledged the comics were a (childish) response, I asserted that they were indicative of a mindset that has always been condescending and obnoxious.
The logic isn't as circular as you make out, though. The apple ads are ongoing, so more ads were created and aired after those particular examples of unfunny.

Who work in a much more diverse market to begin with. Seriously, Apple have one big competitor - 1, a single one, and they can't wrestle 10% market share from it.... pityful.

So how is it that Apple has 24Billion in reserves and Microsoft doesnt have $240 billion in reserves since it has 10x marketshare?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Id_kGL3M5Cg
the best one.

So how is it that Apple has 24Billion in reserves and Microsoft doesnt have $240 billion in reserves since it has 10x marketshare?

Silly Maccy... because market share is not defined by profit alone.

So how is it that Apple has 24Billion in reserves and Microsoft doesnt have $240 billion in reserves since it has 10x marketshare?

Because there would be no point for Microsoft to retain $240 billion in reserves. It would be a waste of money.

Because there would be no point for Microsoft to retain $240 billion in reserves. It would be a waste of money.

No buying Yahoo and have it devalue by half overnight is wasting money. Cash is king.

No buying Yahoo and have it devalue by half overnight is wasting money. Cash is king.

Keeping $240 billion in reserves is wasted money. Money not earning money is wasted money.

Keeping $240 billion in reserves is wasted money. Money not earning money is wasted money.

Tell that to Bernard Madoffs clients.

Keeping $240 billion in reserves is wasted money. Money not earning money is wasted money.

I can't help but wonder at the interest rate that $240 billion is earning just sitting there?

Tell that to Bernard Madoffs clients.

You're just speaking nonsense now. Do you have anything of actual value to say, or are you going to just ring off irrelevant one-liners over and over? 10x market share =/= 10x cash reserves.

I can't help but wonder at the interest rate that $240 billion is earning just sitting there?

likely less then inflation. though i wonder how much was lost recently in the ponzi scam I mean the stock market.

Seriously, for every theoretical (I hardly ever see them) supposed Mac 'fanboy' that commits some nefarious faux pas like, I don't know, preferring something you don't, there is a five page long gaggle of PC whiners complaining about it.

Seriously, get over it. It's just a fucking computer. If even 50% of 10% of the market is happy with their purchase it's hardly a reason for the other 90% to throw a fucking tizzy fit every time they see an apple with a bite out of it.

^ This.

For the record, my current computer is a PC, and I quite enjoy the Mac ads, because they are funny and John Hodgman is a talented comedian. I really don't understand why people object to them so - I have yet to see any shrieking anguish when Puffs tissues proclaim their superiority to Kleenex, or when Dyson vacuums insist that all other vacuums are terrible, or when Huggies diapers swear they soak up baby pee infinitely better than Pampers. What is the difference, really?

You're just speaking nonsense now. Do you have anything of actual value to say, or are you going to just ring off irrelevant one-liners over and over? 10x market share =/= 10x cash reserves.

Its up to you to get value out of what i say, i cant make you.

^ This.

For the record, my current computer is a PC, and I quite enjoy the Mac ads, because they are funny and John Hodgman is a talented comedian. I really don't understand why people object to them so - I have yet to see any shrieking anguish when Puffs tissues proclaim their superiority to Kleenex, or when Dyson vacuums insist that all other vacuums are terrible, or when Huggies diapers swear they soak up baby pee infinitely better than Pampers. What is the difference, really?

Because when all is said and done people will purchase the best nappy that they can for the cheapest price, while the only real differance between Macs and PC's is one looks prettyer than the other.:D

Because when all is said and done people will purchase the best nappy that they can for the cheapest price, while the only real differance between Macs and PC's is one looks prettyer than the other.:D

That and one gets viruses and the other doesn't, and one has a more intuitive Operating System then the other, and one has accessories you can just plug in and they work and the other doesn't....

^ This.

For the record, my current computer is a PC, and I quite enjoy the Mac ads, because they are funny and John Hodgman is a talented comedian. I really don't understand why people object to them so - I have yet to see any shrieking anguish when Puffs tissues proclaim their superiority to Kleenex, or when Dyson vacuums insist that all other vacuums are terrible, or when Huggies diapers swear they soak up baby pee infinitely better than Pampers. What is the difference, really?

If you think about it, it's not even a positive commercial. Most of them almost always subtly rely on the "conventional wisdom" that "Windows Sucks." Why else would Hodgman always play up a whiny Gates caricature every chance he gets in those commercials?

That and one gets viruses and the other doesn't, and one has a more intuitive Operating System then the other, and one has accessories you can just plug in and they work and the other doesn't....

Yes, comes with increased capacity for customization..it's a trade off.
I, and many others, would disagree. Mac's OS makes me want to punch cute things.
The vast majority of accessories out there are plug-and-play at this point; it is actually rare that I need to install the drivers and if I do, they come with the device. Again, though, this is the cost of having more options.

I also think the reason are so defensive about their macs or PCs is because computers have become so integral to our way of life that making an attack on someone's computer choice is almost like telling them they have ugly hands or something. Even when we bitch about our computers it's one of those love-hate bitch sessions.

That and one gets viruses and the other doesn't, and one has a more intuitive Operating System then the other, and one has accessories you can just plug in and they work and the other doesn't....

Well not really, both PC's and Macs have their pros and cons, I guess it all depends what you fancy.

That and one gets viruses and the other doesn't, and one has a more intuitive Operating System then the other, and one has accessories you can just plug in and they work and the other doesn't....

and one you have to wait 6 months after the release of a game to play it, if crosses over to mac at all.

Well not really, both PC's and Macs have their pros and cons, I guess it all depends what you fancy.

Exactly this.

I like Mac's file structure, but appreciate PC's ubiquity. I own the last of the G5 iMacs and got it for way cheap as a result. Going on four years and no problems. I play UT2k4 on sniper/camping servers, and that's about all the gamery I need.

I use Sibelius (music publishing software), and I work with graphics and photos. I prefer a Mac. I don't claim it to be superior, and I think the constant bitching and defensiveness on both sides is beyond annoying.

That and one gets viruses and the other doesn't, and one has a more intuitive Operating System then the other, and one has accessories you can just plug in and they work and the other doesn't....

Three separate sources for a virus.
Link One (http://www.sophos.com/security/analyses/viruses-and-spyware/osxleapa.html)
Link Two (http://www.symantec.com/security_response/writeup.jsp?docid=2006-021614-4006-99)
Link Three (http://vil.nai.com/vil/content/v_138578.htm)

Enjoy.
I'm not entirely certain what this is meant to do, but it's there.

I've also been able to plug pretty much anything into my Windows machine and it's worked. If not, it's a 5 minute Google.

My own personal anecdotes on the Mac/PC thing. YMMV.

I learned on a Mac in grade school. Mac back in the early 80s were given free to schools in mass numbers to create adult customers. I never owned a home computer (nor did most people back then) After college i dated a woman that had a mac so when i bought my own first home computer i bought a Mac because she already had software i could copy and it was also what i learned on in school. So ive been an Apple user for a quarter century now.

My brother, who is in his mid 50s (and has 2 teenage boys), was getting so frustrated with his PCs. They constantly broke down, one day he had his cable shut off and he called the company and they told him in the last hour his computer just sent out 150,000 emails. I used to mention on occasion that he should get a Mac. But lets face it, a 50+ year old guy whos not a computer expert really doesnt want to go thru the trouble of learning a brand new operating system. But he eventually got so frustrated and after my laughing at him over his string of troubles over the years when ive always been 100% problem free my entire life, he broke down and bought an imac. (The only thing ive ever had go wrong with a Mac was i eventually burned out an internal replacable battery once or twice over the years)

That first purchase was 8 months ago, since then he has replaced all 5 computers in the house with Macs, the PCs are either packed away or in the garbage and he couldnt be happier and he wishes he listened to me 10 years ago.

My gf is a Nurse and was also a lifelong PCer, and as a nurse lives on computers. She had never even considered a Mac, never even touched one, then she saw me using mine and to make a long story short, her old laptop is in the trash and she has one of the new aluminum Mac laptops and couldnt be happier. She says the drag and drop abilities of Mac make it worth it alone.

On the topic of the Mac ads i love them. I have had Tivo since it was invented and in general refuse to watch commercials period but i will stop a fastforward and watch a new Mac ad. Not all of them are great but a higher % of them make me chuckle then any other ad for any other item i ever see on TV. Microsoft thought that being funny was easy. So they threw alot of money at Seinfeld and thought problem solved. Sound familiar? Was there anyone that thought either of those Seinfeld/Bill Gates ads wernt disasters?

Finally, advice for Non Aligned states, Buy a Mac.

if your PC is constantly having problems, its probably because you're doing stupid stuff to it. if you can't manage to deal with running a PC (*cough which isn't hard cough*) then perhaps a Fisher-Price My-First-PC, or a Mac, makes sense.

for the record, i can see the appeal of macs. i can see the appeal of PCs. i can see the appeal of using linux. i can also see the appeal of not owning a fucking computer ;)

I experimented with Ubuntu about 3 years ago on a Sony Viao I had at the time, it seemed a little clunky so I went with Mac when the Viao died.

I've said before that I'd like to switch to Linux, I prefer the concept over both Windows and Mac, I'm just waiting until it's usable and perhaps it already is.

I suspect, for my next laptop, I'll go with Linux.

It's the principle, I prefer open source and variety as long as compatibility is there, for that I do somewhat respect MS for at least creating something that anyone could use, share and collaborate with.
mm, i've never been a linux user, really. i use it now largely for a bit of fun on another machine, and to run my servers, but i do believe its come on leaps and bounds in the last couple of years. a lot of the computing press are saying that ubuntu is the first linux distro that's close to being a proper mass-market, user-friendly OS. its one of PC Pro magazine's top 10 predictions for 2009: the rise of ubuntu. and from my experience using it on two machines, i'd say its excelent. i experimented with knoppix and debian a few years back, as well, and neither were really polished like ubuntu is today. [/quits selling ubuntu]

that said, i'm not 100% sure its quite ready yet. i can only go from my own experience, but on one machine it worked like a dream, booting straight away in about half the time (if that) of XP. on my newer machine at home, it was like pulling teeth to get it to work. first it hated my graphics card, and getting linux compatible drivers for that was tricky, and then on trying to use windows drivers for my wireless network card through some fancypants emulator thing, it totally killed the OS. it won't boot up ubuntu at all - repair mode, command line... nothing. so perhaps it will only be ready when hardware and software manafacturers start releasing linux ready drivers for their stuff. many do already, but for your average jo bloggs PC- or Mac-user, getting into these sorts of driver difficulties will really piss them off, and certainly deterr them from switching. if i were to start our office again, i'd probably use linux throughout now, but its too late... i'm not going to bother going through the trouble of switching over until i can be more sure it'll go smoothly and i won't lose my sanity in the process.

that said, maybe its price and the volume of great, free, open source software available over the repositories makes up for its downsides :P

I learned on a Mac in grade school. Mac back in the early 80s were given free to schools in mass numbers to create adult customers. I never owned a home computer (nor did most people back then) After college i dated a woman that had a mac so when i bought my own first home computer i bought a Mac because she already had software i could copy and it was also what i learned on in school. So ive been an Apple user for a quarter century now.

My primary school back in the 1990s had Macs (most of them in New Zealand at the time did), and unlike you, I had a home computer with Windows 95.

I did a project for school on the computer, and was so excited to show it to my class, when I saw that the file wasn't loading. Tried again, wasn't loading. I found out that day that Microsoft Office wasn't even on the school's computers, and that it didn't even work.

I was also gaining an interest in games, and I couldn't help but notice - needs Windows 95 or better was on virtually all the boxes. That pretty much put me off Macs for the rest of my days. People have mentioned on this thread that you can get your games to work on Macs, but to be quite frank - I much prefer just sticking the disc in and installing, instead of having to go to all that effort just so I can play Rise of Nations, or Age of Empires, or whatever.

My brother, who is in his mid 50s (and has 2 teenage boys), was getting so frustrated with his PCs. They constantly broke down, one day he had his cable shut off and he called the company and they told him in the last hour his computer just sent out 150,000 emails. I used to mention on occasion that he should get a Mac. But lets face it, a 50+ year old guy whos not a computer expert really doesnt want to go thru the trouble of learning a brand new operating system. But he eventually got so frustrated and after my laughing at him over his string of troubles over the years when ive always been 100% problem free my entire life, he broke down and bought an imac. (The only thing ive ever had go wrong with a Mac was i eventually burned out an internal replacable battery once or twice over the years)

Yes, however, since no-one uses Macs, there is no point in people making viruses, worms, et al, for them. If Mac had 20 or 30% market share, you would see a surge in the number f such things attacking Macs.

Aside from MS Blaster, I have never had any problems with my PCs (and I have had three, plus a Laptop on Vista, which I haven't had problems with either)

Finally, advice for Non Aligned states, Buy a Mac.

My advice - buy a PC. At last you can just stick the disc in and install. No need for fancy additional software.

if your PC is constantly having problems, its probably because you're doing stupid stuff to it. if you can't manage to deal with running a PC (*cough which isn't hard cough*) then perhaps a Fisher-Price My-First-PC, or a Mac, makes sense.

That or having 2 careless carefree teenage boys also on the network.

That or having 2 careless carefree teenage boys also on the network.

yeah, that probably wouldn't help. having clueless employees on the network is bad enough :P

none of us have ever had any problems though, due to
1. windows update
2. avast antivirus
3. adaware plus (real-time scanning)

i can let the employees be clueless as much as they like safe in the knowledge that, coupled with a hardware firewall, everything should be safe and they can't fuck up too badly :)

That or having 2 careless carefree teenage boys also on the network.

So...ultimately it had nothing to do with the PC, and more to do with your clueless brother's inability to control his kids and prevent them from infecting the computers?

So...ultimately it had nothing to do with the PC, and more to do with your clueless brother's inability to control his kids and prevent them from infecting the computers?

No it had everything to do with the kids could now be as carefree as they wanted without the consequences of the cable company shutting down their connection. Why make rules compelling certain behavior when its a useless exercise that can be simply avoided by a brand change?

And if my brother is clueless (which he isnt but for the sake of the discussion) so what? Not everyone is a computer genius and if anything this is even a stronger argument for getting a Mac. Your stupidity is far far less likely to get you into any trouble.

They're not that funny, really. I don't even pay attention to them.

No it had everything to do with the kids could now be as carefree as they wanted without the consequences of the cable company shutting down their connection.

So, basically, you're saying people should buy Macs rather then learning responsible internet skills?

I was also gaining an interest in games, and I couldn't help but notice - needs Windows 95 or better was on virtually all the boxes. That pretty much put me off Macs for the rest of my days. People have mentioned on this thread that you can get your games to work on Macs, but to be quite frank - I much prefer just sticking the disc in and installing, instead of having to go to all that effort just so I can play Rise of Nations, or Age of Empires, or whatever.

Uh...both of those are available for Mac. Nice try, though.

Also, what "complicated installations" for Mac are you talking about. I've been a Mac user since 1997, I've never had to do anything but insert the disk. Drag and drop was as "hard" as it got. No drivers, no nothin' but that. PCs are much better with that than they used to be. As I said, the "fight" between the two platforms is beyond stupid. I like what works well for me, and that's a Mac.

So, basically, you're saying people should buy Macs rather then learning responsible internet skills?

Perhaps some think that dealing with viruses shouldn't be part of the experience.

LMAO my brother and girlfriend will be happy to know ive cut and pasted them into existence. Reality is a bitch NAS, deal with it.

Your brother and girlfriend might be real, but your story premise sounds like a Mac ad. Full of fluff, no content or context. Reality still puts Apple as a trend computer, with limited marketshare not a workhorse.

Your brother and girlfriend might be real, but your story premise sounds like a Mac ad. Full of fluff, no content or context. Reality still puts Apple as a trend computer, with limited marketshare not a workhorse.

Unless you use it as a workhorse. The Audio Tech program at my college uses Macs for editing and production.

That and one gets viruses and the other doesn't,

liar (http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/02/macosxleap.html), liar (http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/Macintosh_Viruses_and_Mac_Virus_Resources.htm)

It's no surprise that fanboys like you like to spout myths as fact because you can't handle reality like a YEC fundamentalist so you go back to lies.

Unless you use it as a workhorse. The Audio Tech program at my college uses Macs for editing and production.

Any thing Mac can do better then PC Linux can do better still.

liar (http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/02/macosxleap.html), liar (http://antivirus.about.com/od/macintoshresource/Macintosh_Viruses_and_Mac_Virus_Resources.htm)

It's no surprise that fanboys like you like to spout myths as fact because you can't handle reality like a YEC fundamentalist so you go back to lies.

Is it not possible that IF says no viruses because he's never had one? I haven't either. I don't claim there aren't any, but there you go. I just don't see the need for such vehemence. If the argument is weak, it'll fail. If someone is deluding himself, you know "the truth", so why waste your time and energy in pointless acrimony?

Any thing Mac can do better then PC Linux can do better still.

That's nice.

Is it not possible that IF says no viruses because he's never had one? I haven't either. I don't claim there aren't any, but there you go. I just don't see the need for such vehemence. If the argument is weak, it'll fail. If someone is deluding himself, you know "the truth", so why waste your time and energy in pointless acrimony?

the only reason you don't get very many viruses on MAC is because the market share is so small anyone with the skill to write a virus doesn't want to waste their time targeting Macs.

the only reason you don't get very many viruses on MAC is because the market share is so small anyone with the skill to write a virus doesn't want to waste their time targeting Macs.

Yes, thank you. Been there already in this thread. Also, did you not read me saying "I don't claim there aren't any"? Why are you even replying to me?

I have had a Mac for longer then most of you have been alive and for several decades before the term fanboy was even invented. Back in my day it was just called a satisfied customer. And i simply dont ever have any problems, nor have any of the people i have convinced to switch platforms ever been angry about their decision.

I don't know, if I were an investor in Apple I'd want a hell of a lot more sales than they're making right now...their stock has been absolutely pummeled in the last year while Microsoft, IBM and HP have fared better relatively speaking. Plus, Apple doesn't pay out dividends and is still a little overvalued while those other three are paying out solid dividends and are a good 50% undervalued.

Apple needs to be careful it doesn't fall in to the same trap that doomed Silicon Graphics and Advanced Micro Devices. They had very strong product lines for a while and gained considerable market share against their rivals but ultimately fell apart when consumer tastes changed. Capitalizing on trendiness isn't going to carry your business unless you're not only capable at keeping up with trends but making sure your rivals don't get there first...recall how weak Apple really was until the Ipod came out to see the pitfalls that face their business.

Your brother and girlfriend might be real, but your story premise sounds like a Mac ad. Full of fluff, no content or context.

Does this mean i should be complimented on my writing skills since apparently my life reads like a professional Mac commercial?

My issue is with the insane amount of division between mac and pc users. It is an allegiance thing. it is crazy.

the only reason you don't get very many viruses on MAC is because the market share is so small anyone with the skill to write a virus doesn't want to waste their time targeting Macs.

Frankly, I dont care why. Im just happy i dont have to worry about them. The reason could be its limited distribution or that the happy fun gnomes defend Macs with thier very lives in a daily struggle. I dont care. Macs dont get viruses and they never have in the last 25 years ive owned one. Im sure you can show me a virus or three that exist, but im going to worry about it just about as much as i worry about getting Malaria in Upstate NY.

Frankly, I dont care why. Im just happy i dont have to worry about them. The reason could be its limited distribution or that the happy fun gnomes defend Macs with thier very lives in a daily struggle. I dont care. Macs dont get viruses and they never have in the last 25 years ive owned one. Im sure you can show me a virus or three that exist, but im going to worry about it just about as much as i worry about getting Malaria in Upstate NY.

Of course, the retort to that is that Macs have been such a relative rarity until recently that there hasn't been an incentive to develop viruses that can exploit them. Mind you, they're also very, very good machines but that still doesn't stop a dedicated enough programmer from creating a virus that can capitalize on some exploit. I think you'll see a major crop of viruses targeting Macs in the near future (not to mention other Apple devices should it be possible to do so) so it's probably a good idea to be careful.

My guess is Macs will get viruses right around the time solar power becomes efficient. Both have been claiming to happen any year real soon for 3 decades.

My guess is Macs will get viruses right around the time solar power becomes efficient. Both have been claiming to happen any year real soon for 3 decades.

Ironically, solar power is almost at commercially viable levels and is becoming extremely efficient (somewhere around 27% now)...

Ironically, solar power is almost at commercially viable levels and is becoming extremely efficient

Also said in 1970 and 1971, and 1972.1973.1974 and 1975 certainly 1976 and 1977,78 79 1980 1981 1982 1983 1984 1985 1986 1987 1988 1989 1990 1991 1992, yup even 1993, we still arnt even 15 years to the present yet and see how ridiculously long this list is 1994 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2000(if we survive Y2Kthat is) 2001 yup they still said same thing in 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008,____ <---Now if your a betting man, what do you think is the fill in the blank answer?

Is it not possible that IF says no viruses because he's never had one? I haven't either. I don't claim there aren't any, but there you go. I just don't see the need for such vehemence. If the argument is weak, it'll fail. If someone is deluding himself, you know "the truth", so why waste your time and energy in pointless acrimony?

I don't have viruses either, does that make PCs immune to viruses?

Mac fans proclaim the "virus free" environment as if it's because of the superiority of Macs, when all it comes down to is that there is less proliferation of Mac type viruses and scarcity of platforms on the internet. If Macs were to gain in numbers and utility, then viruses instances would increase as well, not only from the creation of more viruses, but more infected systems to pass it on to.

It's like the idiots who live in rich houses and proclaim plagues are "poor mans diseases"

Does this mean i should be complimented on my writing skills since apparently my life reads like a professional Mac commercial?

About as professional as a McCain attack ad. Only an idiot would buy it at face value.

About as professional as a McCain attack ad. Only an idiot would buy it at face value.

And if its all true and indeed not face vale then what does that make it? Im confused.

the only reason you don't get very many viruses on MAC is because the market share is so small anyone with the skill to write a virus doesn't want to waste their time targeting Macs.

I wouldn't doubt this at all, but I'm completely fine with it. I love not having to really worry about any of this nonsense on my laptop. It's clean, safe, and fast as can be. I'm worry-free with the Macbook, and that's just the way I like it. As it grows in popularity, I imagine I'll have to worry a bit more.

[Excuse me, now, I'm going to reply to a few things I read in this thread, because I don't want to make a ton of new posts.]

Also, that other nonsense about how Macs are SOO WEAK that they can't get more than 10% of the market is pretty ridiculous. Windows-based computers have been the main computers for a long time and are the most trusted (at least with the majority of society--those who haven't experienced Macs at all). When I was growing up, I didn't know anything about Macs. I didn't need to. I was never introduced to them, and who was I to care about different operating systems? We had a Windows computer, that's what we had at school, and that's what all my friends had. I didn't even really CONSIDER Macs until just a year ago, when I was getting ready to buy my first laptop and started all my research. You know what that's called? A monopoly. Or pretty damn near it. That's a tough thing to fight. Personally, I think Apple is doing a very good job in that fight.

Honestly, I like the little-known/little-used aspect of Mac computers, 'cause I LIKE knowing that we Mac users aren't worth all the trouble that someone might have to go through to create a virus for us. (: Believe me, that's fine by me. But I'm sure it isn't going to stay this way. And all of the nonsense about how Macs just can't get more than 10% can really stop. I mean, someone learns that the Macs sales have increased by 30% in one year and then can only respond to that with basically, "And wow, Windows still pretty much has a monopoly in this area!" Yeah, that REALLY makes Mac look bad. Except, well, it doesn't. At all.

I mean, the iPod is pretty much the MAIN mp3 player, but am I going to bash all other mp3 players and say that they're just oh-so-weak? No, that's ridiculous.

And in response to that message about the DIVERSE market place (in regards to the cars), let me just ask this: how many windows-based computer brands are there? Oh, I can sure count quite a few. This is one thing we haven't really taken into consideration in this conversation. In talking about the market share for these operating systems, are we considering the fact that pretty much ALLL computers out there come with Windows and there's mostly just the Macbook or Mac desktop computers that people are buying for the Mac operating system? I don't think we have. Yeah, there's a REASON that Apple has to fight very hard to get ANYWHERE in this marketplace, and it's not because they're any worse or that Microsoft is any better.

Everyone who has said that they're BOTH operating systems and that they BOTH have their individual pros and cons was right. Naturally, we're all going to like different things for different reasons. Just because one of us likes the Macs doesn't mean they're superior, and just because one of us likes the Windows-based computers doesn't mean that they're superior. Sheesh. It shouldn't be so complicated.

I liked that message about the hand insults, though, and the fact that we have a love-hate relationship with our computers. I guess that's true. And even if we can bash our own computers for some reason or another, all of us, experiencing what our computers offer us on a daily basis, realize how great our computers (and operating systems) really can be, and we don't like to have others bash them, especially when those others aren't the ones experiencing them on a daily basis.

MO JA VEE!

Apple sucks, have you heard of this Mojave experiment that's going around? It's awesome and great. They drop some people in a tent in the middle of the Mojave Desert, they set up Vista PCs for them and tell them that if they don't use it, they won't get water. They all use Vista. The Mojave experiment is great, see, people choose Vista.

My issue is with the insane amount of division between mac and pc users. It is an allegiance thing. it is crazy.

So, so true. I mean, really, who would have imagined it?

Men, prepare for battle! We're talking on the soldiers supporting the rival operating system tonight!

the only reason you don't get very many viruses on MAC is because the market share is so small anyone with the skill to write a virus doesn't want to waste their time targeting Macs.

Incorrect. The truth is Windows NT was poorly designed for hostile environments from the beginning, and addons don't really change it's core. Anything designed with the most basic consideration for the internet will be an impenetrable wall compared to windows. Not to say that anything is completely secure, but compared to windows it's no contest.

My guess is Macs will get viruses right around the time solar power becomes efficient. Both have been claiming to happen any year real soon for 3 decades.

Solar power is actually very efficient. Whether or not people are willing to make the changes, drastic as they may be, to utilize that efficiency, however, is an entirely different story. My mother has property in Arizona, and everything she uses there is powered by solar energy.

I don't have viruses either, does that make PCs immune to viruses?

Mac fans proclaim the "virus free" environment as if it's because of the superiority of Macs, when all it comes down to is that there is less proliferation of Mac type viruses and scarcity of platforms on the internet. If Macs were to gain in numbers and utility, then viruses instances would increase as well, not only from the creation of more viruses, but more infected systems to pass it on to.

It's like the idiots who live in rich houses and proclaim plagues are "poor mans diseases"

It's funny that you describe it that way, considering that the reason we don't have to worry about viruses, as you profess, is the fact that Macs are scarce and much lesser-known/lesser-used. Methinks that WE are the poor men, and, hm, oddly enough, the diseases are in the rich houses.

Really, I get what you're saying, but with all of that popularity that Microsoft has had and the HUGE amount of the market place that is occupied by Windows, why is it that there aren't better methods for combating all of these viruses? I've even read numerous places where people hated their anti-virus software and felt that the software added a bunch of junk to their computers and only made everything worse. On Windows, so many people don't even know which anti-virus programs to use or HOW to protect their computers. And that could and should definitely be dealt with. I'm thinking that it probably would have been dealt with a little more if Windows had more of a competitor, but hey.

Again, regardless of the reason, I'm happy to not have to worry about viruses. And if and when I do have to worry, I'm also happy to know that the Mac people will be working on the necessary solutions.

But I just read an interesting little article about how the operating systems are rarely the targets of malice at this point in time. That doesn't mean that operating systems are in the clear, but it seems to be more about Internet browsers and what all can be done easily through them with phishing and whatnot.

And if its all true and indeed not face vale then what does that make it? Im confused.

Except what you're telling is, like an Apple ad, all fluff. It doesn't talk about performance, capability, or anything. It just goes "It's popular because I say it is! It's cool!"

And to me, that's the sort of trend slave crap I expect from the people who pay $10 for a cup of $1.50 coffee because it's "trendy".

And if you want to talk about "not experiencing a mac", I have, it was my first computer, and in comparison to the needs and hardware flexibility I expect from a computer, it's crap.

It's funny that you describe it that way, considering that the reason we don't have to worry about viruses, as you profess, is the fact that Macs are scarce and much lesser-known/lesser-used. Methinks that WE are the poor men, and, hm, oddly enough, the diseases are in the rich houses.


Considering that Macs are somewhat more expensive than PCs, and they occupy a small niche of the market, while being advertised as trendy products, they fit the role of rich people quite well.

That being said, you're a Mac user, not a Mac fan like IF, so that makes you easier to talk to than him.


Really, I get what you're saying, but with all of that popularity that Microsoft has had and the HUGE amount of the market place that is occupied by Windows, why is it that there aren't better methods for combating all of these viruses?

Short of employing seers with crystal balls, it's pretty near impossible to have a better method. People make viruses that exploit functions or bugs, and anti-virus companies write protections against them. The more complex the code, the greater the probability of an exploit or bug that misses quality control. It's the same no matter what OS you use. Heuristic methods of virus detection are the next best option of active prevention, but that's it.


I've even read numerous places where people hated their anti-virus software and felt that the software added a bunch of junk to their computers and only made everything worse.


Either its bloatware or malware masquerading as an antitvirus software.


On Windows, so many people don't even know which anti-virus programs to use or HOW to protect their computers. And that could and should definitely be dealt with. I'm thinking that it probably would have been dealt with a little more if Windows had more of a competitor, but hey.

Window's does have competitors, but also for PCs. Ubuntu, Red Hat, Fedora, Linux, there's a lot.


Again, regardless of the reason, I'm happy to not have to worry about viruses. And if and when I do have to worry, I'm also happy to know that the Mac people will be working on the necessary solutions.

Since Apple is trying to sell itself as never having viruses, I expect a lot of eye closing and denial in the first few months when a serious virus does show up on the majority of computers.

On Windows, so many people don't even know which anti-virus programs to use or HOW to protect their computers. And that could and should definitely be dealt with. I'm thinking that it probably would have been dealt with a little more if Windows had more of a competitor, but hey.

This isn't a problem of Windows but of antivirus manufacturers.

This isn't a problem of Windows but of antivirus manufacturers.

That Windows, as an OS, requires third-party security software is a fault of Windows.

There's two reasons Macs don't have viruses and it's not really market share.

First, it's harder to exploit Macs, as someone explained earlier.

Second, Mac users are very unlikely to write a virus, 10% of the market is still a lot of people but I'd say that Sony fans wouldn't write a virus for Sony either.

The people able to write viruses for Mac simply wouldn't because they love their Macs.

Having said that, I'm sure Apple recently said that people should load anti-virus software onto their computers, I use Norton, I'm not stupid.

Reminds me of the John McCain ads on Obama. *nod*

Yeah, they're more like campaign attack ads than anything else. Which is a little strange, because as people have said...they're computers.

And when it comes to word processing, OpenOffice is free and can be saved as .doc, .docx, and most other files. Less fancy, but very worthwhile.

The vast majority of malware written today isn't done for the fun of it, it's made to steal stuff, directly or with extortion, or to make money with spam. It has nothing to do with brand loyalty, for or against. It's all about money.

The vast majority of malware written today isn't done for the fun of it, it's made to steal stuff, directly or with extortion, or to make money with spam. It has nothing to do with brand loyalty, for or against. It's all about money.

Exactly. To play alternate history, if Mac became the global computing standard, we'd be seeing the reverse in all likelihood. Apple being a bloated, complacent entity with a bug-ridden OS, Microsoft making Windows workable and making commercials with the Mac being a whiny Steve Jobs caricature. And all sorts of malware being tailor made for Macs.

Exactly. To play alternate history, if Mac became the global computing standard, we'd be seeing the reverse in all likelihood. Apple being a bloated, complacent entity with a bug-ridden OS, Microsoft making Windows workable and making commercials with the Mac being a whiny Steve Jobs caricature. And all sorts of malware being tailor made for Macs.

You flunk reading comprehension this time. I never suggested anything like this.

I'm no Apple fanboy, I hate their overpriced toys, but strictly speaking of the OS, OSX has a much better foundation than Windows. Like I said before, NT (what Windows is based on) is a weak kernel that was never designed for multi user environments and too many things are centrally intertwined, this is why you WIndows users see vulnerabilities all the time, and there is a mad, futile dash to constantly patch them all. OSX is based on a BSD which is a unix variant, an OS that was designed from the start to be multi-user and to keep everything in line and separated.

Not that I like Apple. Like I said, all they did was steal FreeBSD and put their own software over it, and their corporate politics may very well be as bad as MS if the tables were turned, but those important contrast between the technologies of OSX and Windows is a fact. It's not market share, WIndows design is inherently vulnerable to malware.

That Windows, as an OS, requires third-party security software is a fault of Windows.

That's sort of like saying that a house requiring a burglar alarm is the fault of the people who made the house.

That's sort of like saying that a house requiring a burglar alarm is the fault of the people who made the house.

A house with an included alarm system is more valuable than a house without one, so I'm not sure where you're going with this analogy. It is a fault of Windows that it does not contain its own anti-virus software, and consumers are required to go out and purchase a third-party program to secure their computer. It is a feature that Microsoft should develop and include in their OS.

I don't have viruses either, does that make PCs immune to viruses?

Mac fans proclaim the "virus free" environment as if it's because of the superiority of Macs, when all it comes down to is that there is less proliferation of Mac type viruses and scarcity of platforms on the internet. If Macs were to gain in numbers and utility, then viruses instances would increase as well, not only from the creation of more viruses, but more infected systems to pass it on to.

It's like the idiots who live in rich houses and proclaim plagues are "poor mans diseases"

Can one be a dedicated Mac user without being one of your so-called "Mac fans"? You've made this point now several times. I get it, okay? I didn't say there weren't any viruses. I then explained that the reason why someone who uses a Mac MIGHT say that there weren't any is because they've never seen one and didn't see the necessity in searching for them.

Now, if you'd care to repeat yourself YET AGAIN, I suggest you quote someone else.

Can one be a dedicated Mac user without being one of your so-called "Mac fans"? You've made this point now several times. I get it, okay? I didn't say there weren't any viruses. I then explained that the reason why someone who uses a Mac MIGHT say that there weren't any is because they've never seen one and didn't see the necessity in searching for them.

Now, if you'd care to repeat yourself YET AGAIN, I suggest you quote someone else.

I am a Mac user, I like the system, but I'm not particularly obssessed with the products. So I think that indeed, one can be a dedicated user and not a freaky fan. ;)

I use Norton, I'm not stupid.

Umm isn't that something of an oxymoron right there?:D

Yeah, it's really more of an attack on PCs, rather than advertising anything.

You are correct, and Macs have their problems too. Especially since they now use the same hardware architecture (Intel), they are just different, not really any better or worse than PCs.

I love this video... Check it out... (if you have not already) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvXZVJXIyqM

..... Crash Different!

You flunk reading comprehension this time. I never suggested anything like this.

I'm no Apple fanboy, I hate their overpriced toys, but strictly speaking of the OS, OSX has a much better foundation than Windows. Like I said before, NT (what Windows is based on) is a weak kernel that was never designed for multi user environments and too many things are centrally intertwined, this is why you WIndows users see vulnerabilities all the time, and there is a mad, futile dash to constantly patch them all. OSX is based on a BSD which is a unix variant, an OS that was designed from the start to be multi-user and to keep everything in line and separated.

Not that I like Apple. Like I said, all they did was steal FreeBSD and put their own software over it, and their corporate politics may very well be as bad as MS if the tables were turned, but those important contrast between the technologies of OSX and Windows is a fact. It's not market share, WIndows design is inherently vulnerable to malware.

i don't see why Microsoft doesn't start again with a new slimline kernel. i mean, sure there'd be some (ok, a lot of) issues with interoperability and compatibility with older windows systems, and current software might need some emulators or something to run, but surely that'd be the best long-term solution to Windows' vulnerabilities and bloatedness?

Like I said before, NT (what Windows is based on) is a weak kernel that was....
<snip>

The thing that has always gotten me about this it NT stands for New Technology, so windows 95 based on NT technology always makes me giggle.

Damn, and insight into what makes a techy giggle!:D

I am a Mac user, I like the system, but I'm not particularly obssessed with the products. So I think that indeed, one can be a dedicated user and not a freaky fan. ;)

And that's just one reason why you are the Goddess of my personal idolatry.

And that's just one reason why you are the Goddess of my personal idolatry.

You are making me blush.:tongue:

Seriously. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52H2RcIFpi8)

They're not even talking about the goddamn computers anymore.

Yeah, it's really more of an attack on PCs, rather than advertising anything.

Actually they're taking a dig at the issue of Mac/PC compatibility, which is substantially one-way at the moment as Mac try to lure PC users over to their platform with the promise of cooperation between your Mac and Windows projects.

Windows however obviously wont encourage this behaviour as it will allow users to leave their platform for Macs, ergo their lack of cooperation.

But yes, these adverts are bloody annoying and completely pwned by the Windows "I'm a PC, and I've been made into a stereotype" ads. That and the Mac adverts basically say "Hey, if you want to be a successful businessman and do important stuff then use a PC, but if you're cool and wear jeans like me and just want to shell out £1000 to piss about with music programs, then Mac's your man".

FYI, I own a Mac.

I think the thing that annoys me most is the apparent confusion of a P.C. and it's operating system.

The first round was all about "hey Windows is boring!" then we got the round of "hey! Mac can run Windows!" then the round of "hey! Vista sucks!"

I have 5 P.C.'s 4 of them have never ever had a Microsoft product on them.

If there is an inherent problem with the P.C. I want to hear it.

I think the thing that annoys me most is the apparent confusion of a P.C. and it's operating system.

The first round was all about "hey Windows is boring!" then we got the round of "hey! Mac can run Windows!" then the round of "hey! Vista sucks!"

I have 5 P.C.'s 4 of them have never ever had a Microsoft product on them.

If there is an inherent problem with the P.C. I want to hear it.


Thats a bloody good point, PC does not automaticly = Windows OS.

I think the thing that annoys me most is the apparent confusion of a P.C. and it's operating system.

The first round was all about "hey Windows is boring!" then we got the round of "hey! Mac can run Windows!" then the round of "hey! Vista sucks!"

It's basically a combination of Window's ubiquitousness in the computer market and Apple's marketing schemes that reinforces that idea to anyone who can't be bothered to check on alternative OS's.


If there is an inherent problem with the P.C. I want to hear it.

Lack of "trendy" image apparently for the most part.

The only real complaint could be the compatibility issues resulting from having hardware flexibility. But that's an archaic complaint these days, and if you want hardware flexibility, you're either the type who knows or is willing to learn about how to make use of that flexibility.

It's basically a combination of Window's ubiquitousness in the computer market and Apple's marketing schemes that reinforces that idea to anyone who can't be bothered to check on alternative OS's.

Lack of "trendy" image apparently for the most part.

The only real complaint could be the compatibility issues resulting from having hardware flexibility. But that's an archaic complaint these days, and if you want hardware flexibility, you're either the type who knows or is willing to learn about how to make use of that flexibility.

I understand your point, but how is it possible to be "trendy" when you've been around since 1984? I've owned one since 1997 -- am I "trendy"?

I understand your point, but how is it possible to be "trendy" when you've been around since 1984? I've owned one since 1997 -- am I "trendy"?
only if you own a macbook air.

or mac airbook

whatever the pretentious thing is called.

I love the P.C "response" ads. The most unintentionally dorky reply possible, just completely playing into the narrative the Mac commercials started.

I understand your point, but how is it possible to be "trendy" when you've been around since 1984? I've owned one since 1997 -- am I "trendy"?

And how does 90+% of the market share call the remaining <10% 'trendy'?

Seriously, this thread, as all threads of this nature do, prove that "PC" users are the some of the thinnest skinned cats around.

"Waaaaaaaah! A niche competitor that's barely made a dent in a large market has asserted its advantages in an advertising campaign! Waaaaaaaaaaaah, some mythological and highly exaggerated 'fanboy' somewhere has the audacity to be happy with a purchase that is different from mine, I must go to the internet and bleat on endlessly about them as if other peoples computer preferences fucking matter! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

Get the fuck over it you fucking whiners. It's just a fucking computer.

And how does 90+% of the market share call the remaining <10% 'trendy'?

Seriously, this thread, as all threads of this nature do, prove that "PC" users are the some of the thinnest skinned cats around.

"Waaaaaaaah! A niche competitor that's barely made a dent in a large market has asserted its advantages in an advertising campaign! Waaaaaaaaaaaah, some mythological and highly exaggerated 'fanboy' somewhere has the audacity to be happy with a purchase that is different from mine, I must go to the internet and bleat on endlessly about them as if other peoples computer preferences fucking matter! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

Get the fuck over it you fucking whiners. It's just a fucking computer.

Don't you think this post is somewhat ironic?

Seriously. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52H2RcIFpi8)

They're not even talking about the goddamn computers anymore.

I don't own a Mac. But when I'm ready to buy I new computer, I intend to get one. I like these commercials. They are certainly better than the PC ones. That Mojave bullcrap they keep playing is infuriating. I love the line, "It's how you use it" or something to that effect. Basically they blame users for all the Vista bugs. I can attest Vista sucks, and it's not because I don't know how to use it, it's because it is the most user unfriendly garbage ever created. XP was great, but PC killed my goodwill toward them with Vista.

Don't you think this post is somewhat ironic?

It would be if it wasn't sitting in ten pages of evidence.

"Waaaaaaaah! A niche competitor that's barely made a dent in a large market has asserted its advantages in an advertising campaign! Waaaaaaaaaaaah, some mythological and highly exaggerated 'fanboy' somewhere has the audacity to be happy with a purchase that is different from mine, I must go to the internet and bleat on endlessly about them as if other peoples computer preferences fucking matter! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

Gross misrepresentation.

It would be if it wasn't sitting in ten pages of evidence.

Well it's not as bad as console wars.

Gross misrepresentation.
When I see this 'fanboy' that somehow merits eleven pages of chest beating or repeated threads, or the threads whining about the "Pepsi challenge," I'll retract. Until then, I stand by my characterization.
Well it's not as bad as console wars.

True.

Well it's not as bad as console wars.

You're right, it's worst, because I don't see a PS3 and an Xbox 360 decorating a tree will a Wii smokes some crack while siting on a pile of cash.

I don't own a Mac. But when I'm ready to buy I new computer, I intend to get one. I like these commercials. They are certainly better than the PC ones. That Mojave bullcrap they keep playing is infuriating. I love the line, "It's how you use it" or something to that effect. Basically they blame users for all the Vista bugs. I can attest Vista sucks, and it's not because I don't know how to use it, it's because it is the most user unfriendly garbage ever created. XP was great, but PC killed my goodwill toward them with Vista.

"PC" didn't "make" Vista any more than "Car" made "Penzoil". PC's are machines, not software.

I'm looking into installing Linux....there's some niffty things out there.

Indeed it is --- all my boxen are running it. It's different, and does take some getting used to, but Ubuntu etc are now to the stage of general usability. Indeed, I noticed the other day at school that one of my teacher's laptops was running Ubuntu.

Who work in a much more diverse market to begin with. Seriously, Apple have one big competitor - 1, a single one, and they can't wrestle 10% market share from it.... pityful.

That's mainly because of MS's very strong position in corporations, which they leverage for all its worth.

Yes, however, since no-one uses Macs, there is no point in people making viruses, worms, et al, for them. If Mac had 20 or 30% market share, you would see a surge in the number f such things attacking Macs.

False. OS X is a UNIX at heart, and is inherently more secure than Windows when it comes to the internet and access controls. It is fundamentally non-trivial to write viruses for UNIX systems.

Any thing Mac can do better then PC Linux can do better still.

False. Linux is very weak at hardcore professional stuff such as audio and video work.

i don't see why Microsoft doesn't start again with a new slimline kernel. i mean, sure there'd be some (ok, a lot of) issues with interoperability and compatibility with older windows systems, and current software might need some emulators or something to run, but surely that'd be the best long-term solution to Windows' vulnerabilities and bloatedness?

Because that would doom them. Microsoft is only still in the market for two reasons: inertia, and backwards compatibility. If MS switch to something entirely new, they'll have to be competing directly against the other modern systems on technical merits, not on compatibility with the old installed base. As a result, they will almost certainly lose marketshare, unless they can write a brand new operating system that has Linux beat on technical merits*, which is unlikely.

It would be the very best long term solution, but they simply cannot do it. Their true strength is predicated on a very simple fact: all the big organisations use Windows, and thus all the big applications are written for it. With a new system that is not backwards compatible, the big corps would reconsider upgrading to it, instead plowing money into development of WINE, etc. Windows' real strength comes from its widespread use on office desks, and a new system arriving there would sound the death knell for MS's current market strategy, and thus most of their marketshare.

*Ironically, their best method if they were going to do this would be to use Linux as the core, and then replace X11 with something new and modern. Even if it was proprietary, they would have a damn good shot at the new machines market, and then they could help with WINE development in order to help maintain backwards compatibility.

"PC" didn't "make" Vista any more than "Car" made "Penzoil". PC's are machines, not software.

But when the hardware and software are purposefully intertwined specifically intended to make it difficult to use other software and impossible to completely rid your machine of the software once it has latched onto your computer like a leech, the difference is moot.

I, being a PC fan, despise this commercial. For one, it doesn't say anything about why a Mac is better then a PC (I have both, the Mac is a bit outdated, and incredibly dusty), which, I will admit, there are a few things that are better. And then, it seems to come off as no more then a childish insult.

In other words: I like.... Erm... Bill I suppose.

But when the hardware and software are purposefully intertwined specifically intended to make it difficult to use other software and impossible to completely rid your machine of the software once it has latched onto your computer like a leech, the difference is moot.

Do you even have Vista? I've experienced no such trouble, even with how often I remove, replace, and install programs.

Do you even have Vista? I've experienced no such trouble, even with how often I remove, replace, and install programs.
exactly, I've not had any major problems with my Vista laptop...except a BSOD. but Vista fixed it automatically and within minutes (I was in class at the time).


And I hereby hate Justin Long....smug bastard.

I have Vista and a long list of problems, the latest being the mysterious disappearance of spell check.

I have Vista and a long list of problems, the latest being the mysterious disappearance of spell check.
Well, can't say anything to that, my spellcheck and other items still work fine.

I have Vista and a long list of problems, the latest being the mysterious disappearance of spell check.

In your browser? In your word processing program? In your email program? Everywhere?

How is this a "Vista" problem exactly?

I haven't had any problems with Vista.

i don't see why Microsoft doesn't start again with a new slimline kernel. i mean, sure there'd be some (ok, a lot of) issues with interoperability and compatibility with older windows systems, and current software might need some emulators or something to run, but surely that'd be the best long-term solution to Windows' vulnerabilities and bloatedness?

Because they can't while remaining true to their corporate philosophies of controlling the market. If they went open or took an open mesh to build around, they'd lose credibility and start looking like a dead weight of a middleman. They want absolute control of their closed down OS since that's their entire business plan, and it doesn't matter if their closed teams are incapable of matching an open alternative as long as they retain their market share.

Because that's the thing, if they really can contract a sprawling team to work together and create what you describe, they would have done it by now. They promised it since the 90s and haven't delivered. Never mind the rubes that keep believing it like an abused girlfriend that keeps going back because 'this time he's different', that won't stop.

Ultimately, business just figures that people wasting their CPU cycles and money on Norton while walking on egg shells is a good thing since it moves money around, the glassy eyed idiots can screw themselves. And MS aligns itself (or extorts) hardware vendors as well, as they have from the beginning, so they can punish PC dissidents with incompatibility or at least discomfort. This is where the whines of "oh this works fine in Windows and not in [X]". Duh, moron, MS created that environment.

In your browser? In your word processing program? In your email program? Everywhere?

How is this a "Vista" problem exactly?

I haven't had any problems with Vista.

Word. It is actually a well-known problem with Vista, although a solution seems in short supply.

But when the hardware and software are purposefully intertwined specifically intended to make it difficult to use other software and impossible to completely rid your machine of the software once it has latched onto your computer like a leech, the difference is moot.

Given that I have a machine that was shipped with Linux, and has never seen a Microsoft product, you may wish to reconsider that. It is not hard to use other OS's on a PC, nor is it hard to completely eradicate all traces of Windows from a PC. Now please stop confusing the two.

Word. It is actually a well-known problem with Vista, although a solution seems in short supply.

I just opened up a Word doc in Vista, and my spell check is woking just fine...

*is confused*

Perhaps you're using Office 2007...

I think the thing that annoys me most is the apparent confusion of a P.C. and it's operating system.

The first round was all about "hey Windows is boring!" then we got the round of "hey! Mac can run Windows!" then the round of "hey! Vista sucks!"

I have 5 P.C.'s 4 of them have never ever had a Microsoft product on them.

If there is an inherent problem with the P.C. I want to hear it.

Yep, I find that annoying too--not so much because I think it is incorrect but because I think others will become confused and not fully understand that Macs ARE PCs themselves.

But I don't think the ad can really go "I'm a Windows-based computer. And I'm an OS X-based computer." It's just easier to do it this way, AND it avoids calling out a particular different brand, y'know, by just going with the generic "PC." Of course, everyone knows it becomes Mac VS. Windows, so there's really not much of a point; it's just a little safer for them, I'm guessing. But it's the same in the cell phone commercials. Well, from the past, at least. I'm seeing more and more commercials now where companies actually attack their competitors BY NAME rather than using some generic descriptions or very vague hints at whose being called out, but advertisements which attack competitors have mostly been vague and haven't mentioned the competitors by name.

Macs are PCs, though, yep.

HP, Dell, Compaq, Mac, Gateway, Toshiba, etc. = PCs
Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Solaris, etc. = operating systems

False. Linux is very weak at hardcore professional stuff such as audio and video work.





this infomercial says otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSYeKcsC7cg&feature=related

Considering that Macs are somewhat more expensive than PCs, and they occupy a small niche of the market, while being advertised as trendy products, they fit the role of rich people quite well.

That being said, you're a Mac user, not a Mac fan like IF, so that makes you easier to talk to than him.



Short of employing seers with crystal balls, it's pretty near impossible to have a better method. People make viruses that exploit functions or bugs, and anti-virus companies write protections against them. The more complex the code, the greater the probability of an exploit or bug that misses quality control. It's the same no matter what OS you use. Heuristic methods of virus detection are the next best option of active prevention, but that's it.



Either its bloatware or malware masquerading as an antitvirus software.



Window's does have competitors, but also for PCs. Ubuntu, Red Hat, Fedora, Linux, there's a lot.



Since Apple is trying to sell itself as never having viruses, I expect a lot of eye closing and denial in the first few months when a serious virus does show up on the majority of computers.

Considering that Windows has the majority of the wealth in this particular market place while Macs have to work hard as hell just to have a small portion of the market place and have a small bit of that wealth, Windows fits the profile of the fat cats too. d: It all depends on how you look at it, haha. (Believe me, I'm not taking this seriously. I'm more amused than anything when it comes to viewing the two in this manner, hah.)

About the competitors, though, I said "more of a competitor." Obviously Windows has the Mac OS as a competitor as well. It's not enough, though. Windows still occupies most of that particular market place, so there aren't any real big competitors yet. I mean, the Mac operating system is getting there, and the Windows people might have to start sweating a little bit more, but it's still not MUCH of a competition, as people have been pointing out, simply because Windows has been on top for a long time and is the most-recognized, most-used, most-referenced operating system. All competitors would be entering quite the battle. So thus far, yeah, I do believe Windows hasn't had to worry TOO much about competition.

I don't think Macs are being advertised as never having viruses. Lots of Mac users will talk about how they've never had viruses or never had even a moment's worry with their Macs when it came to security issues (simply because they haven't--we don't need to cover the reasons again), but I really don't think that they're being advertised that way.

I understand your point, but how is it possible to be "trendy" when you've been around since 1984? I've owned one since 1997 -- am I "trendy"?

It's the way Mac advertises itself, and the way the trend slaves with more money than sense lap it up. Some Mac users are decent enough, but like every other demographic, you've got your annoying "Macs rule" idiots who scream about it everywhere they go when they haven't the faintest idea what their systems even do or what the people want. I know we had one such idiot around here for a while who kept blathering about a titanium shell Mac laptop as superior, somehow, against a cheaper, better performance system with padded carrying case. Maybe it was IF.

They're extremely annoying. Sure, you can claim them niche, but so are the pseudo down syndrome YEC people.

It's the way Mac advertises itself, and the way the trend slaves with more money than sense lap it up. Some Mac users are decent enough, but like every other demographic, you've got your annoying "Macs rule" idiots who scream about it everywhere they go when they haven't the faintest idea what their systems even do or what the people want. I know we had one such idiot around here for a while who kept blathering about a titanium shell Mac laptop as superior, somehow, against a cheaper, better performance system with padded carrying case. Maybe it was IF.

They're extremely annoying. Sure, you can claim them niche, but so are the pseudo down syndrome YEC people.

There is nothing i havnt said that wasnt 100% true and frankly im getting tired of being singled out by you. Mac laptops are increasing in sales faster then any laptop on the planet. I have been using Mac products since probably before you were born and im a satisfied Apple customer. Deal with it.

There is nothing i havnt said that wasnt 100% true and frankly im getting tired of being singled out by you. Mac laptops are increasing in sales faster then any laptop on the planet. I have been using Mac products since probably before you were born and im a satisfied Apple customer. Deal with it.

If you're tired of being singled out, stop promoting Macs at every opportunity regardless of what people want or think. You want to act like an evangelizing missionary who assumes a lot of crap about people he's never seen or met and knows nothing about them, be prepared to be treated like one.

Deal with it.

If you're tired of being singled out, stop promoting Macs at every opportunity regardless of what people want or think. You want to act like an evangelizing missionary who assumes a lot of crap about people he's never seen or met and knows nothing about them, be prepared to be treated like one.

Deal with it.

So why is it that probably 85% of the people on here own a PC yet your the only one being an ass about it? Your even trying to bring in arguements from other threads from 6 months ago and your not even sure who or what was said and what wasnt even then. GIVE IT UP.

Now now kiddies.

So why is it that probably 85% of the people on here own a PC yet your the only one being an ass about it? Your even trying to bring in arguements from other threads from 6 months ago and your not even sure who or what was said and what wasnt even then. GIVE IT UP.

You're the one who told me to "Get a Mac" on this thread despite the fact that I never even asked for your opinion or expressed a desire for a new computer.

Don't try to play innocent.

only if you own a macbook air.

or mac airbook

whatever the pretentious thing is called.

That's the one, and as much of a Mac user as I am, I LOATHE that pretentious piece of crap. I understand the Windows argument against Mac when it comes to what Steve Jobs wants his minions to live with (or in the case of Air, live without, i.e., a damned DVD-drive).

I don't trust my dexterity enough to get a laptop. I'll stick with iMac.

this infomercial says otherwise.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSYeKcsC7cg&feature=related

That 'infomercial', and I use the term loosely, is not very useful.

Look, I am a Linux user. I have it on all my machines, and am very happy with what it does for me, and much prefer it to any other OS.

But I am also not a professional in audio, video, or 3D animation, to take a few examples. The top of the line software in several fields is produced solely for Windows or Mac. The GIMP cannot compete with Photoshop for heavy duty professional work yet. Nor are there any Linux programs which can win a stand up fight with Final Cut Pro*.

Yes, there is software out there that will do for most people wanting to make simple videos, or put together simple tracks, or edit simple images. But when it comes to serious professional work, Linux simply can't compete yet.

*Sorry if this isn't the best example --- as I said, I don't work in these fields.

You're the one who told me to "Get a Mac" on this thread despite the fact that I never even asked for your opinion or expressed a desire for a new computer.

Don't try to play innocent.

We are the Knights who say "Get a Mac" ni!
In order to pass you must cut down this forest.......with Bill Gates ni!



ni!


Fine times it is when an old lady cant walk around town without being told to Get a Mac.

Eh, they're barely amusing.

Still using a PC, though. Having used both, I'm going for less expensive and more software.

That's the one, and as much of a Mac user as I am, I LOATHE that pretentious piece of crap.

Please explain that to me. There are a certain number of people in the world for whatever reason that want ultra portable thin lightweight computers. Are they terrible people for wanting this? Is Apple a terrible company for providing for this segment of customers? They seem to be selling well enough to justify it, i dont understand the hate.

Word. It is actually a well-known problem with Vista, although a solution seems in short supply.

That's a registry problem I would think. Sounds like you have something wonky going on. Registry problems are not new with Windows.

Nor are there any Linux programs which can win a stand up fight with Final Cut Pro*.

*Sorry if this isn't the best example --- as I said, I don't work in these fields.

No, that's right, that's where the work is. That and Avid, which is a big price jump up from FCP Pro. There are people who stubbornly stand by Vegas or Premier, but you don't see ads looking for editors familiar with that all that often if at all (I'm freelance so I look for jobs all the time and I never see them), it's either FCP or Avid. Avid runs on both Windows and Mac.

I've never heard of anyone using Kino.

That's a registry problem I would think. Sounds like you have something wonky going on. Registry problems are not new with Windows.

s/Registry // surely?

No, that's right, that's where the work is. That and Avid, which is a big price jump up from FCP Pro. There are people who stubbornly stand by Vegas or Premier, but you don't see ads looking for editors familiar with that all that often if at all (I'm freelance so I look for jobs all the time and I never see them), it's either FCP or Avid. Avid runs on both Windows and Mac.

I've never heard of anyone using Kino.

There we go, I case my rest. Linux is a good platform for many things, but for serious professional video work, it simply cannot compete at this time.

I can't play high-end computer games on a Macintosh without a virtual machine pretending to be a Windows OS. That right there is probably the main reason that Mac has such a small market share, and I don't ever see that changing: Apple doesn't have enough financial incentive to re-vamp their whole OS to be more gamer friendly and then make a marketing push for all the developers to migrate to their platform.

I can't play high-end computer games on a Macintosh without a virtual machine pretending to be a Windows OS. That right there is probably the main reason that Mac has such a small market share, and I don't ever see that changing: Apple doesn't have enough financial incentive to re-vamp their whole OS to be more gamer friendly and then make a marketing push for all the developers to migrate to their platform.

No, that also isn't the reason Apple are so small. The high end gamer market is a very small percentage of the overall market, and is not making more than a couple percentage points difference at most.

Apple are not big because Microsoft owns the corporate desktop. People will go out and buy the stuff they already use at work, because they have some idea how to use it. Schools will train people how to use it, because those people need to be competitive in the job market.

Microsoft own the corporate desktop for one reason, and one reason only: backwards compatibility. To a very great degree, you can run any program ever written for Windows on Windows. There are minor exceptions, but it is almost invariably true. This is MS's true strength, and why they can never fully replace the operating system: if they throw out backwards compatibility, corporations can take a good long look around, instead of following the Microsoft upgrade path because it keeps everything working.

As a result, Windows is simply gaining cruft and bloat with every release. No real fundamental changes can be made, and the codebase just gets worse and worse, bigger and bigger, buggier and buggier. This is going to be MS's doom eventually, because they will reach a stage where fixing any bug will introduce more bugs. Meanwhile, Linux and Mac do not suffer from this problem, and projects like Wine and Crossover are systematically improving support for old Windows programs.

Once Microsoft reach the stage where they simply cannot improve Windows further without breaking it, you will see a sea change in the operating system market, and the end of Microsoft as you know it. Before then, nothing much will change: Apple and Linux will slowly take over consumer machines, but the important areas will still be MS dominated.

Edit: incidentally, Apple have a very strong technical incentive not to revamp their entire OS, because the one they have is very good. It has powerful technologies for developers, a well written graphics system, inherent security to a much greater degree than Windows, and is at it's heart multi-user and UNIX. Sacrificing that for Windows compatibility would doom them.

No, that also isn't the reason Apple are so small. The high end gamer market is a very small percentage of the overall market, and is not making more than a couple percentage points difference at most.

Apple are not big because Microsoft owns the corporate desktop. People will go out and buy the stuff they already use at work, because they have some idea how to use it. Schools will train people how to use it, because those people need to be competitive in the job market.

Microsoft own the corporate desktop for one reason, and one reason only: backwards compatibility. To a very great degree, you can run any program ever written for Windows on Windows. There are minor exceptions, but it is almost invariably true. This is MS's true strength, and why they can never fully replace the operating system: if they throw out backwards compatibility, corporations can take a good long look around, instead of following the Microsoft upgrade path because it keeps everything working.

As a result, Windows is simply gaining cruft and bloat with every release. No real fundamental changes can be made, and the codebase just gets worse and worse, bigger and bigger, buggier and buggier. This is going to be MS's doom eventually, because they will reach a stage where fixing any bug will introduce more bugs. Meanwhile, Linux and Mac do not suffer from this problem, and projects like Wine and Crossover are systematically improving support for old Windows programs.

Once Microsoft reach the stage where they simply cannot improve Windows further without breaking it, you will see a sea change in the operating system market, and the end of Microsoft as you know it. Before then, nothing much will change: Apple and Linux will slowly take over consumer machines, but the important areas will still be MS dominated.

Edit: incidentally, Apple have a very strong technical incentive not to revamp their entire OS, because the one they have is very good. It has powerful technologies for developers, a well written graphics system, inherent security to a much greater degree than Windows, and is at it's heart multi-user and UNIX. Sacrificing that for Windows compatibility would doom them.
Well, MS not being tied to a specific piece of hardware likely has a lot to do with it as well. There are 'pcs' that are just as pricey as Macs but you always have the option of getting a cheaper unit from any number of manufacturers. If a business wants to switch to Mac they only have one fairly pricey way to go. That Windows is only an operating system while Mac is a hardware set with its own operating system nearly insures that it will be a niche product. I don't see anything wrong with niche products, if your in that niche, great, if not, great. It's really not that big a deal, I really don't know why people need to bleat on about it.

The biggest threat to MS will likely come from something like Google releasing something like GooOS.

Well, MS not being tied to a specific piece of hardware likely has a lot to do with it as well. There are 'pcs' that are just as pricey as Macs but you always have the option of getting a cheaper unit from any number of manufacturers. If a business wants to switch to Mac they only have one fairly pricey way to go. That Windows is only an operating system while Mac is a hardware set with its own operating system nearly insures that it will be a niche product. I don't see anything wrong with niche products, if your in that niche, great, if not, great. It's really not that big a deal, I really don't know why people need to bleat on about it.

The biggest threat to MS will likely come from something like Google releasing something like GooOS.

That's how MS nicked the market in the first place, as it happens.

But no. Unless the GooOS is full backwards compatible with all versions of Windows, it won't be a huge threat to MS on the business desktop, which is where MS survives from. Even if it eats the entire consumer market, MS are still in the black. And they'll just sell Office for the GooOS, which is also wildly profitable and still the de-facto standard. My suspicion is that MS are going to be the architects of their own demise, but that it will take a long time, and a lot of very hard work by Wine and co to accelerate it.

I actually thought they were pretty funny....

Vista sucks balls...unfortunately im using it anyway, all you can get on new PCs...


Id like to get a Mac, but no matter how good the ad, They're more expensive, and you can only get them from their website around here...

I actually thought they were pretty funny....

Vista sucks balls...unfortunately im using it anyway, all you can get on new PCs...


Id like to get a Mac, but no matter how good the ad, They're more expensive, and you can only get them from their website around here...

Some Best Buys are beginning to carry Macs now as well.

Some Best Buys are beginning to carry Macs now as well.
Apple is paying them to do it. I can tell because there is a dedicated Apple section with a big screen showing Mac ads and a big Mac posterboard and all other signs of an obvious advertising campaign.

I actually thought they were pretty funny....

Vista sucks balls...unfortunately im using it anyway, all you can get on new PCs...


Id like to get a Mac, but no matter how good the ad, They're more expensive, and you can only get them from their website around here...

You could always just dump the OS and "downgrade" to XP, if you feel like it... Although, I must say, I'm running Vista on my laptop, and I've had very few issues with the OS...

Apple is paying them to do it. I can tell because there is a dedicated Apple section with a big screen showing Mac ads and a big Mac posterboard and all other signs of an obvious advertising campaign.

Thank god your here to uncover such mysteries as in-store PoP...don't let 'em get away with it man! My god, we would have gone on thinking that signage in a store was a public service message!

Please explain that to me. There are a certain number of people in the world for whatever reason that want ultra portable thin lightweight computers. Are they terrible people for wanting this? Is Apple a terrible company for providing for this segment of customers? They seem to be selling well enough to justify it, i dont understand the hate.

A certain number? Betting that I could have counted them on one set of digits before it came out. Once out, rabid fans went "ooooooh, prettyyyyy" and discovered a "need" for it that they didn't have before. Anyone have the sales figures for this soon-to-be DeLorean?

I can't play high-end computer games on a Macintosh without a virtual machine pretending to be a Windows OS. That right there is probably the main reason that Mac has such a small market share, and I don't ever see that changing: Apple doesn't have enough financial incentive to re-vamp their whole OS to be more gamer friendly and then make a marketing push for all the developers to migrate to their platform.

Not sure what games you're talking about. Most of the big sellers are out for all platforms. Back when I gave a shit about games, I had UT2k4, Quake 4, Halo, AoE, Civ 4, everything I wanted to play, I could play. Four years later, and into my college teaching career, I give much less of a shit about games. In fact, those I mentioned are still keeping me busy. Every so often I go into a Mac store to see what's new and find games I might like to try over a break or the summer, but then I think of all the music I have to write and the urge to consume goes away.

Also, 'cause someone else will if I don't, Bungie wrote the precursor to Halo for Macs only(?), called Marathon (Marathon: Infinity; Marathon: Durandal). Best 2D-as-3D ever, in my experience.

Also again, games are largely a console concern now with the exception of the more complex strategy/RPG games that require a keyboard. I will admit that I'm far better with a sniper rifle on my Mac than I will ever be on my friend's XBOX 360. Something about the spider configuration my hand adopts over the 10-key pad and my dominant left hand on the mouse that makes the XBOX controller feel clunky and inaccurate by comparison.

I actually thought they were pretty funny....

Vista sucks balls...unfortunately im using it anyway, all you can get on new PCs...


Id like to get a Mac, but no matter how good the ad, They're more expensive, and you can only get them from their website around here...
You can ask most vendors to put on Linux or even earlier versions of Windows, if you prefer that....

You could always just dump the OS and "downgrade" to XP, if you feel like it... Although, I must say, I'm running Vista on my laptop, and I've had very few issues with the OS...
Ditto.

Also, 'cause someone else will if I don't, Bungie wrote the precursor to Halo for Macs only(?), called Marathon (Marathon: Infinity; Marathon: Durandal). Best 2D-as-3D ever, in my experience.

i think one of them got an official port to windows 95, but yeah.

I give that ad a WTF.

A certain number? Betting that I could have counted them on one set of digits before it came out. Once out, rabid fans went "ooooooh, prettyyyyy" and discovered a "need" for it that they didn't have before.

And your evidence for this is? Im glad you have arbitrarily decided what other peoples needs are and summarily judged them to be insufficient.. I prefer to let free thinking people that have their very own money to spend to best decide what their needs are not you.

I prefer to let free thinking people that have their very own money to spend to best decide what their needs are not you.

Your actions on his thread speak otherwise.

Ditto.

:tongue:

And your evidence for this is? Im glad you have arbitrarily decided what other peoples needs are and summarily judged them to be insufficient.. I prefer to let free thinking people that have their very own money to spend to best decide what their needs are not you.

I don't think you do, but hey, whatever you need to tell yourself to meet your own gaze in the mirror.

I am getting really tired of people taking my posts so far out of context that it's like they're being re-posted in Swahili. I said I didn't like the MacBook Air. I didn't say people shouldn't buy it, and I never said others didn't need it.

For fuck's sake, please try to read what you quote.

:tongue:
My laptop likes Vista, what can I say?

My laptop likes Vista, what can I say?

At the risk of being abrasive - I have Vista on a laptop and it refuses to run DOS applications in full screen, and won't work with anything that attempts to use graphics functions from before DX7. Not to mention all the software designed for Win95 and 98 which no longer works, a problem which plagues XP as well. Really, I think Microsoft shouldn't bother developing a new OS if they can't even make it compatible by default with a DOS app that takes 23K of memory. That smacks of laziness or incompetence and probably both.
That said, I'll probably still use their products indefinitely, which I guess says more about me.

Of course, I also think Microsoft should charge a $100 a year subscription and iteratively release updates for the operating system instead of redesigning everything every two years. I think this business model has proved to be a failure and I'm not sure why they are still trying to make it work.

Your actions on his thread speak otherwise.

I laughed.

Some Best Buys are beginning to carry Macs now as well.

Beginning to? I bought mine from a Best Buy over a year ago.

At the risk of being abrasive - I have Vista on a laptop and it refuses to run DOS applications in full screen, and won't work with anything that attempts to use graphics functions from before DX7. Not to mention all the software designed for Win95 and 98 which no longer works, a problem which plagues XP as well. Really, I think Microsoft shouldn't bother developing a new OS if they can't even make it compatible by default with a DOS app that takes 23K of memory. That smacks of laziness or incompetence and probably both.
That said, I'll probably still use their products indefinitely, which I guess says more about me.


i've had virtually no issues with vista, i must say... probably because i'm not trying to run ancient software lol ;)

i've had virtually no issues with vista, i must say... probably because i'm not trying to run ancient software lol ;)
This laptop of mine has Vista, and the only software that I have installed are Celestia and Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday.

At the risk of being abrasive - I have Vista on a laptop and it refuses to run DOS applications in full screen, and won't work with anything that attempts to use graphics functions from before DX7. Not to mention all the software designed for Win95 and 98 which no longer works, a problem which plagues XP as well. Really, I think Microsoft shouldn't bother developing a new OS if they can't even make it compatible by default with a DOS app that takes 23K of memory. That smacks of laziness or incompetence and probably both.
That said, I'll probably still use their products indefinitely, which I guess says more about me.

Of course, I also think Microsoft should charge a $100 a year subscription and iteratively release updates for the operating system instead of redesigning everything every two years. I think this business model has proved to be a failure and I'm not sure why they are still trying to make it work.

Are you serious? They have to update the kernel, which means a) that older applications won't run natively, they have to be emulated and b) that you have to release a new operating system, you can't just release updates.

Are you serious? They have to update the kernel, which means a) that older applications won't run natively, they have to be emulated and b) that you have to release a new operating system, you can't just release updates.

They can't. If MS lose backwards compatibility, it's the beginning of the end for MS.

If they did write a whole new system, they would not be able to get the same marketshare for a subscription service, as it would be a Unix with a fancy skin.

They can't. If MS lose backwards compatibility, it's the beginning of the end for MS.

If they did write a whole new system, they would not be able to get the same marketshare for a subscription service, as it would be a Unix with a fancy skin.

Which would make it a Mac, which is what Windows has always really wanted to be anyway.

Which would make it a Mac, which is what Windows has always really wanted to be anyway.

Well, yes. But they wouldn't be able to maintain 90% marketshare selling a proprietary Unix for normal hardware, as they'd be competing with Linux face to face on technical merits and price.

They'll never beat Linux on price, and it's unlikely they can beat it on technical merits.

Besides, why would they want to be Mac or Linux? They already have the support of hardware and software manufacturers, why would they throw that away?

This laptop of mine has Vista, and the only software that I have installed are Celestia and Hearts of Iron 2: Doomsday.

well mine's a dell xps 1730 laptop, and i have a shitload of software on here. browsers, an old version of dreamweaver, adobe cs2, napster, ms office, open office, wamp local server, old versions of corel draw suite, google stuff, video editing stuff, an old copy sound forge, packet inspectors, a bunch of mozilla programs, some open source stuff like scribus, some gis software, as well as some games like red alert 3, sims 2, spore, rome total war... and a bunch of adware/spyware/antivirus stuff.

its quite a powerful lappy, with a T7700 cpu, 4gb of ram, dual sli graphics, raid-0 striped hdds, etc, but the only problems i've had with it have been:
a) an irritating sound issue, not being able to record stereo mix. but this is a dell problem and not vista
b) this one is probably vista - updating the drivers for my graphics cards ended up giving nothing more than a blank screen with sli enabled... so i rolled back the driver and its all ok now

to me, vista is better than xp

well mine's a dell xps 1730 laptop, and i have a shitload of software on here. browsers, an old version of dreamweaver, adobe cs2, napster, ms office, open office, wamp local server, old versions of corel draw suite, google stuff, video editing stuff, an old copy sound forge, packet inspectors, a bunch of mozilla programs, some open source stuff like scribus, some gis software, as well as some games like red alert 3, sims 2, spore, rome total war... and a bunch of adware/spyware/antivirus stuff.

its quite a powerful lappy, with a T7700 cpu, 4gb of ram, dual sli graphics, raid-0 striped hdds, etc, but the only problems i've had with it have been:
a) an irritating sound issue, not being able to record stereo mix. but this is a dell problem and not vista
b) this one is probably vista - updating the drivers for my graphics cards ended up giving nothing more than a blank screen with sli enabled... so i rolled back the driver and its all ok now

to me, vista is better than xp

Well, I also have Firefox, Live Messenger and WinRAR.

PC vs. Mac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLbJ8YPHwXM)

PC vs. Mac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLbJ8YPHwXM)

That was awesome!

I did see one Holiday Mac Vs. PC ad yesterday, about them building a snowman, and how fun it is to be animated, and then a bunny comes along and says that he's going to the Apple store. So PC knocks the head of the snowman off and down onto the bunny.

What does that have to do with Mac, or even computers?

I agree, the Mac Vs. PC commercials are just getting ridiculous now.

That was awesome!

I did see one Holiday Mac Vs. PC ad yesterday, about them building a snowman, and how fun it is to be animated, and then a bunny comes along and says that he's going to the Apple store. So PC knocks the head of the snowman off and down onto the bunny.

What does that have to do with Mac, or even computers?

Commercials serve in order to get you to remember and consider the product. The very fact that you remember the ad well enough to describe it with such detail suggests that it works just fine. There's a certain irony in a forum discussing how the ads don't make sense. The very fact that it got you talking abvout them means that they're doing exactly what they're supposed to.

Commercials serve in order to get you to remember and consider the product. The very fact that you remember the ad well enough to describe it with such detail suggests that it works just fine. There's a certain irony in a forum discussing how the ads don't make sense. The very fact that it got you talking abvout them means that they're doing exactly what they're supposed to.

It just makes me want to buy a PC out of spite though.

That was awesome!

I did see one Holiday Mac Vs. PC ad yesterday, about them building a snowman, and how fun it is to be animated, and then a bunny comes along and says that he's going to the Apple store. So PC knocks the head of the snowman off and down onto the bunny.

What does that have to do with Mac, or even computers?

I agree, the Mac Vs. PC commercials are just getting ridiculous now.

It's a Christmas ad. Christmas ads often don't have anything to do with the actual product being advertised. They're meant to wish everyone happy holidays, to remind people of what a great and considerate and compassionate company they are.

Commercials serve in order to get you to remember and consider the product. The very fact that you remember the ad well enough to describe it with such detail suggests that it works just fine. There's a certain irony in a forum discussing how the ads don't make sense. The very fact that it got you talking abvout them means that they're doing exactly what they're supposed to.
Yep. But I think some ads have unintended consequences. For instance, Head-On and the derivatives are known to me -- but the commercials are so bloody annoying that even if the angels, archangels, and host of heaven started to sing their praises, and the FDA said they were the most effective medication for everything on earth, I still wouldn't buy it.

That was awesome!

I did see one Holiday Mac Vs. PC ad yesterday, about them building a snowman, and how fun it is to be animated, and then a bunny comes along and says that he's going to the Apple store. So PC knocks the head of the snowman off and down onto the bunny.

What does that have to do with Mac, or even computers?

I agree, the Mac Vs. PC commercials are just getting ridiculous now.

It's more pretentious Apple bullshit.

Yep. But I think some ads have unintended consequences. For instance, Head-On and the derivatives are known to me -- but the commercials are so bloody annoying that even if the angels, archangels, and host of heaven started to sing their praises, and the FDA said they were the most effective medication for everything on earth, I still wouldn't buy it.

Head on, apply directly to the forehead, Head on, apply directly to the forehead, Head on, apply directly to the forehead...

Well like I said, those ads make me want to buy a PC out of spite.

*runs away before Kat murders him*

Yep. But I think some ads have unintended consequences. For instance, Head-On and the derivatives are known to me -- but the commercials are so bloody annoying that even if the angels, archangels, and host of heaven started to sing their praises, and the FDA said they were the most effective medication for everything on earth, I still wouldn't buy it.

Those spin-off products' commercials are worse in my opinion. Activ-on, Prefer-on, bleh...

That was awesome!

I did see one Holiday Mac Vs. PC ad yesterday, about them building a snowman, and how fun it is to be animated, and then a bunny comes along and says that he's going to the Apple store. So PC knocks the head of the snowman off and down onto the bunny.

What does that have to do with Mac, or even computers?

I agree, the Mac Vs. PC commercials are just getting ridiculous now.
It suggested the Apple Store as a good place for some last minute Christmas gifts...if the people last on your list are people you want to dump hundreds of dollars on for electronic items. That one wasn't even hard, dude.

Yep. But I think some ads have unintended consequences. For instance, Head-On and the derivatives are known to me -- but the commercials are so bloody annoying that even if the angels, archangels, and host of heaven started to sing their praises, and the FDA said they were the most effective medication for everything on earth, I still wouldn't buy it.

The FDA is full of shit anyway. It's a tool of corporate wants,
And no, I will never elaborate more.

Besides, why would they want to be Mac or Linux? They already have the support of hardware and software manufacturers, why would they throw that away?

You'd have to ask those who made each successive Windows system look like the Mac OS. I've no idea why they'd do that unless it's a tacit admission that the Mac OS is a better product. But go look for honesty in a company willing to steal the windows concept in the first place.

The FDA is full of shit anyway. It's a tool of corporate wants,
And no, I will never elaborate more.

Then you will never be taken seriously.

Then you will never be taken seriously.

A clever ploy, I feel.

Then you will never be taken seriously.

I'm sure he/she will be taken seriously by those who understand and don't need the elaboration.

(Stuff here, but it's irrelevant.)

I like the political compass signature. I think I'm going to copy it. d: With my scores, of course.

Well, I also have Firefox, Live Messenger and WinRAR.

damn i must have been bored the other day to type out that list :tongue:

I'm sure he/she will be taken seriously by those who understand and don't need the elaboration.

Nah. He'll just be cheered on by other mobs who don't need elaboration, either. It's easy to be lazy.

damn i must have been bored the other day to type out that list :tongue:

Well, I forgot some from the list I first typed that list. My brother also installed Half-life.

Nah. He'll just be cheered on by other mobs who don't need elaboration, either. It's easy to be lazy.

I don't think it's being lazy so much as avoiding what would probably be a never-ending, pointless debate on something so far away from the original topic of the thread.

That being said, here is a good link:
http://www.naturalnews.com/FDA_corruption.html

I used to have a better one that was sent to me by my uncle, but I can't currently find it. I'm guessing I have a website bookmarked but not the specific page of that website that deals with the FDA, so I'll have to do some more digging. I will do the digging, though, if you want.

(And for all I know, you don't even care about this. You may have just wanted to mention that someone who will make a bold claim without elaboration will never be taken seriously, in which case you can just ignore this. It's interesting all the same, though.)

I don't think it's being lazy so much as avoiding what would probably be a never-ending, pointless debate on something so far away from the original topic of the thread.

That being said, here is a good link:
http://www.naturalnews.com/FDA_corruption.html

I used to have a better one that was sent to me by my uncle, but I can't currently find it. I'm guessing I have a website bookmarked but not the specific page of that website that deals with the FDA, so I'll have to do some more digging. I will do the digging, though, if you want.

(And for all I know, you don't even care about this. You may have just wanted to mention that someone who will make a bold claim without elaboration will never be taken seriously, in which case you can just ignore this. It's interesting all the same, though.)

I've got no issue with someone who wants to point out that government is only as responsible as it can be given the contributions from corportations and lobbyists. The notion that one can pillory an agency without a shred of evidence and expect me not to ask for any is plain silly. Thanks for your link.

Nah. He'll just be cheered on by other mobs who don't need elaboration, either. It's easy to be lazy.

Ah, and here's the link I was looking for:

http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/a-to-z-alphabetical.html#BY_AGENCY

It's really an entire list that is not just by agency but also alphabetically and by issue. It should take you to the beginning of the "by agency" section, though, and then you can just look for the part about the FDA. There's a lot of information on political interference and absurd actions taken by officials in various agencies and regarding various issues, so if you find it interesting, you could read stuff about other agencies/issues as well. I like it. :D

This is also an interesting little tidbit to read with links to much more in-depth information, from the same website:
http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/abuses_of_science/summary-of-the-fda-scientist.html

I've got no issue with someone who wants to point out that government is only as responsible as it can be given the contributions from corportations and lobbyists. The notion that one can pillory an agency without a shred of evidence and expect me not to ask for any is plain silly. Thanks for your link.

Well, I sort of disagree with that "as it can be," because I think it can surely be a lot more responsible, regardless of the contributions. Whether or not it WANTS to be, though, is an entirely different issue. But like I said, this whole thing is so far away from the original issue at hand, and I kind of don't want to get too in-depth on this topic right here and right now, heh. But I definitely get what you're saying.

Of course, you can ask for evidence--and I surely understand why you WOULD ask for evidence (and would hope that you would get it from some people, 'cause the transference/sharing of knowledge is a wonderful thing *smiles*)--but some people may not wish to bother, and I do think those people can still be taken seriously...occasionally. Of course, it is rather odd, I admit, to step in and say something like "The FDA is full of shit anyway" and then just leave it alone, heh. In that case, there is really no point in mentioning anything in the first place.

Then againnnnn, it does still make sense, 'cause at least it could get people researching the topic, which is also a good thing.

Anyhoo!

You're welcome for the link. The second one I posted is really great, in my opinion.