NationStates Jolt Archive

So, last night something came to me, well actually two things came to me. 1. The song "She'll be coming around the mountain" is a dirty song if you think about it long enough.

However, the most important thing concerns Christian's belief that they're the only right path to Heaven and to Yahweh. I started thinking about this after reading on some website about why Jews should convert to Christianity.

Now, the doctrine of most Christian domination is that you need to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and you must accept him as your personal savior if you want to gain entrance into Heaven.

Well, last night something came to me. Where is Jesus Christ? I mean he was born Jewish, he lived his life as a Jewish man, and he died Jewish. So, barring the claim that he was the Son of God, then by Christian Doctrine, wouldn't Jesus be in Hell?

Where is Jesus Christ?
Dunno, mate. Dunno if there was one, even.

Jesus is everywhere isn't he? :p

I started thinking

you will want to avoid doing that

Where is Jesus Christ?I don't know. I don't even know where my cat i- Wait, never mind.
Now, the thing about Jesus being in Hell... I wouldn't even begin to guess at that. Maybe Dante could help you?

So, last night something came to me, well actually two things came to me. 1. The song "She'll be coming around the mountain" is a dirty song if you think about it long enough.

However, the most important thing concerns Christian's belief that they're the only right path to Heaven and to Yahweh. I started thinking about this after reading on some website about why Jews should convert to Christianity.

Now, the doctrine of most Christian domination is that you need to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and you must accept him as your personal savior if you want to gain entrance into Heaven.

Well, last night something came to me. Where is Jesus Christ? I mean he was born Jewish, he lived his life as a Jewish man, and he died Jewish. So, barring the claim that he was the Son of God, then by Christian Doctrine, wouldn't Jesus be in Hell?

I disagree with the bolded part. While I am no longer Christian, I was raised Catholic, and there was none of this "personal savior" crap. The understanding was that Jesus came to save mankind, collectively.

Well, last night something came to me. Where is Jesus Christ? I mean he was born Jewish, he lived his life as a Jewish man, and he died Jewish. So, barring the claim that he was the Son of God, then by Christian Doctrine, wouldn't Jesus be in Hell?

your logic train derailed a bit. And your understanding of christian theology is lacking.

According to (some) Christian theology, all men are sinners, all sins are punishable by hell. The only way to cleans your sins is to repent and accept Christ. Christ, however, being not mortal, had no sins, thus died sinless. Therefore, no hell.

The details differ somewhat, but the basic premise is that Christ, not being mere mortal, was not bound by the concept of "everybody sins" that us mere people are. You missed a step in your logic ladder, it's not the acceptance of Christ that gets you into heaven, it's the repentance of your sins, made only complete through faith. Christ, so the story goes, had no sins.

your logic train derailed a bit. And your understanding of christian theology is lacking.

According to (some) Christian theology, all men are sinners, all sins are punishable by hell. The only way to cleans your sins is to repent and accept Christ. Christ, however, being not mortal, had no sins, thus died sinless. Therefore, no hell.

The details differ somewhat, but the basic premise is that Christ, not being mere mortal, was not bound by the concept of "everybody sins" that us mere people are. You missed a step in your logic ladder, it's not the acceptance of Christ that gets you into heaven, it's the repentance of your sins, made only complete through faith. Christ, so the story goes, had no sins.If he wasn't mortal, how did he die? Did he just randomly decide to go to sleep when he was on the cross? o_0;
And was he really tired? Because he slept for, like, three days, or something like that.

If he wasn't mortal, how did he die? Did he just randomly decide to go to sleep when he was on the cross? o_0;
And was he really tired? Because he slept for, like, three days, or something like that.

He had one heck of a last supper.

To my understanding, however, it specifically says that he ascended. So he's special, obviously.

If he wasn't mortal, how did he die? Did he just randomly decide to go to sleep when he was on the cross? o_0;
And was he really tired? Because he slept for, like, three days, or something like that.

He'd spent, like, a week straight with Neil Patrick Harris. Anybody'd want to sleep for three days after that.

Anybody, that is, except for NPH.

Now, the doctrine of most Christian domination is that you need to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and you must accept him as your personal savior if you want to gain entrance into Heaven.

Well, last night something came to me. Where is Jesus Christ? I mean he was born Jewish, he lived his life as a Jewish man, and he died Jewish. So, barring the claim that he was the Son of God, then by Christian Doctrine, wouldn't Jesus be in Hell?

No, he was sinless. Immaculate conception and all that. He only went on vacation to Hell for a few days.

He had one heck of a last supper.

To my understanding, however, it specifically says that he ascended. So he's special, obviously.

I never knew that Christians thought Christ was special :p

No, he was sinless. Immaculate conception and all that. He only went on vacation to Hell for a few days.

If he was sinless, he couldn't have died. Death is the wages of sin.

your logic train derailed a bit. And your understanding of christian theology is lacking.

According to (some) Christian theology, all men are sinners, all sins are punishable by hell. The only way to cleans your sins is to repent and accept Christ. Christ, however, being not mortal, had no sins, thus died sinless. Therefore, no hell.

The details differ somewhat, but the basic premise is that Christ, not being mere mortal, was not bound by the concept of "everybody sins" that us mere people are. You missed a step in your logic ladder, it's not the acceptance of Christ that gets you into heaven, it's the repentance of your sins, made only complete through faith. Christ, so the story goes, had no sins.

Interesting to tell someone their grasp of Christian theology is lacking, and then claim that Jesus wasn't mortal.

This is what happens when I have too much spare time:

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/shrinkwrap.jpg

:D

This is what happens when I have too much spare time:

http://www.boomspeed.com/looonatic/shrinkwrap.jpg

:D

We did that to our Principal's car on the last day of school. Except that we put a bunch of signs saying 'I drink my own pee" underneath said shrink-wrap. Good times...

...Immaculate conception and all that...

(As a note - the Immaculate Conception refers to the conception of Mary... not Jesus)

So, last night something came to me, well actually two things came to me. 1. The song "She'll be coming around the mountain" is a dirty song if you think about it long enough.

However, the most important thing concerns Christian's belief that they're the only right path to Heaven and to Yahweh. I started thinking about this after reading on some website about why Jews should convert to Christianity.

Now, the doctrine of most Christian domination is that you need to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and you must accept him as your personal savior if you want to gain entrance into Heaven.

Well, last night something came to me. Where is Jesus Christ? I mean he was born Jewish, he lived his life as a Jewish man, and he died Jewish. So, barring the claim that he was the Son of God, then by Christian Doctrine, wouldn't Jesus be in Hell?
why would being jewish have anything to do with it?

there were no christians before jesus died. he had to be something.

If he wasn't mortal, how did he die?

Interesting to tell someone their grasp of Christian theology is lacking, and then claim that Jesus wasn't mortal.

I use mortal in the "Human, as distinct from a supernatural being" sense, as opposed to the "capable of death" sense. For example, see here. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mortal) The use of the word "mortal" to describe a human being, as opposed to supernatural entity, is a perfectly valid use of the word.

Sure, according to theology, Jesus was mortal in the "capable of being killed" sense (as he was killed) but he was not "human", but rather something supernatural.

Namely, god.

I use mortal in the "Human, as distinct from a supernatural being" sense, as opposed to the "capable of death" sense. Sure, according to theology, Jesus was mortal in the "capable of being killed" sense (as he was killed) but he was not "human", but rather something supernatural.

Namely, god.

In which tradition? Many churches use mantra like 'fully god and fully man', 'very god and very man' or 'true god and true man'.

Many churches teach that the dove seen descending at the Baptism, was the Spirit (immortal) indwelling the body of Christ (mortal).

The fact that he died on the Cross means he's mortal, the fact that he's resurrected means that he's immortal. It's a dichotomy - he HAS TO be both man AND god.

Interesting to tell someone their grasp of Christian theology is lacking, and then claim that Jesus wasn't mortal.

Well, in fairness, Wilgrove's grasp of Christian theology pretty clearly is lacking. Neo Art didn't claim his wasn't lacking, too. :p

Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Christ believed in his own teachings, which would kinda make him a "Christian" by most sensible definitions, even if Wil's apparent complete ignorance of the faith & works debate and other pretty key aspects of Christian theology didn't make this thread nonsensical to begin with.

I use mortal in the "Human, as distinct from a supernatural being" sense, as opposed to the "capable of death" sense. For example, see here. (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/mortal) The use of the word "mortal" to describe a human being, as opposed to supernatural entity, is a perfectly valid use of the word.

Sure, according to theology, Jesus was mortal in the "capable of being killed" sense (as he was killed) but he was not "human", but rather something supernatural.

Namely, god.

Well, he's actually supposed to be both at once - it's kinda the point of why he was special. He's simultaneously man and god; it's one of those things like the Trinity being simultaneously three and one that doesn't actually make rational sense per se, but that you're just supposed to accept because, y'know, God doesn't have to follow the rules. :)

Well, he's actually supposed to be both at once - it's kinda the point of why he was special. He's simultaneously man and god; it's one of those things like the Trinity being simultaneously three and one that doesn't actually make rational sense per se, but that you're just supposed to accept because, y'know, God doesn't have to follow the rules. :)

well, sure, if you want to get into the nitty gritty of it, he was both man, and not, but from a logical perspective, if he's "man and" anything, he's more than just man.

The fact that he died on the Cross means he's mortal, the fact that he's resurrected means that he's immortal. It's a dichotomy - he HAS TO be both man AND god.

Exactly - if it made sense then it would be easy to have faith in it. Good old religious mystery.

Man God, AND spirit.... Is that a trichotomy??! :tongue:

but from a logical perspective

...wait, I thought we were discussing religion?





*dodges inevitable smiting* :p

Well, he's actually supposed to be both at once - it's kinda the point of why he was special. He's simultaneously man and god; it's one of those things like the Trinity being simultaneously three and one that doesn't actually make rational sense per se, but that you're just supposed to accept because, y'know, God doesn't have to follow the rules. :)

Although, of course, it is following the rules, really. Both 'trinity' and 'indwelling' are basic concepts of the religion of Egypt. Christianity was just following the established pattern for godhood.

So, last night something came to me, well actually two things came to me. 1. The song "She'll be coming around the mountain" is a dirty song if you think about it long enough.

Every song is dirty if you think about it long enough. Even The grand old Duke of York

I suggest that you keep focused on the mountain and who is comin' round.

We did that to our Principal's car on the last day of school. Except that we put a bunch of signs saying 'I drink my own pee" underneath said shrink-wrap. Good times...

Same, but no signs plus a couple of us, myself included shoved rotten apples up into the door handles. So when they go to open the door they ram their fingers into rotten apples.

I had too much free time on my hands hands today...

"Do plants ever feel itchy?"

Where is Jesus Christ?
He'll be coming 'round the mountains when he comes...

she'll be comin' round the mountain is NOT dirty.

Now, the doctrine of most Christian domination is that you need to be saved by the blood of Jesus Christ, and you must accept him as your personal savior if you want to gain entrance into Heaven.

Well, last night something came to me. Where is Jesus Christ? I mean he was born Jewish, he lived his life as a Jewish man, and he died Jewish. So, barring the claim that he was the Son of God, then by Christian Doctrine, wouldn't Jesus be in Hell?

Thats quite the stretch...

"Hmm.. Seems that besides you being the Son of God and the inspiration behind the Christian faith (which, by the way hasn't been formed as of yet), you don't exactly fit the criteria of someone who is heaven-bound.."

Unlike Judaism, ethnicity isn't such a large part of the Christian equation when considering one's admittance into the fold. As for a person having to accept "Him" as their saviour in order to be saved.. Since Jesus was "Him", he would have been well aware of this fact, and according to Scripture he led his life in the way that the model Christian would have (born Jewish or not).

I don't believe in any of that jazz myself.

“Religion is not merely the opium of the masses, it's the cyanide.”
-Tom Robbins

I had too much free time on my hands hands today...

"Do plants ever feel itchy?"
Most people don't know this, but in Dante's original draft of The Inferno, the suicides who were turned into trees were cursed with itchy roots that they would never be able to scratch. He was forced to change it afterward, because friends found that image of eternal itchiness to horrific to be believed.
Having the trees scream and bleed while savage harpies tore off their limbs was considered much more merciful.

Most people don't know this, but in Dante's original draft of The Inferno, the suicides who were turned into trees were cursed with itchy roots that they would never be able to scratch. He was forced to change it afterward, because friends found that image of eternal itchiness to horrific to be believed.
Having the trees scream and bleed while savage harpies tore off their limbs was considered much more merciful.

Quite understandable. Eternal itchiness is reserved for child rapists and people who talk in the theatre.

I always understood that Christ, upon dying, became a Christian. Therefore he wouldn't have gone to Hell for dying Jewish.

I always understood that Christ, upon dying, became a Christian. Therefore he wouldn't have gone to Hell for dying Jewish.

There is no Hell concept in Judaism. There is a place - Sheol, I believe - where people can atone for sins, and the rest of the after life, but no concept of hell, such as that found in Christianity. So, technically, Jesus wouldn't have gone to hell. Hell was only introduced as a concept by Paul (and others such as the divinity of Christ and the Holy Trinity, as well as the removal of Judaic dietary laws).

Quite understandable. Eternal itchiness is reserved for child rapists and people who talk in the theatre.
Not just itchiness, but an itchiness you can't scratch.
I don't know if it is humanly possible to deserve that. You'd have to rape Jesus, kill him, and then molest his corpse, or slaughter every child below the age of 10 and then dispose of the bodies in an ecologically irresponsible manner.

I found Jesus. He's right next to Waldo.

she'll be comin' round the mountain is NOT dirty.

She'll be riding six white horses when she comes...

Comon....seriously? You see nothing dirty about that?

I see orgy, bestiality and the word comes makes me giggle.

you will want to avoid doing that

I have to admit, I laughed.

She'll be riding six white horses when she comes...

Comon....seriously? You see nothing dirty about that?

I see orgy, bestiality and the word comes makes me giggle.
no i dont see anything dirty about horses.

and you have to be rather immature to find every instance of the word come amusing.

She'll be riding six white horses when she comes...

Comon....seriously? You see nothing dirty about that?
No.
I see orgy, bestiality and the word comes makes me giggle.
You should see is a therapist.
Or just get a hobby. I suggest unmixing jars of mixed nuts.

No.

You should see is a therapist.
Or just get a hobby. I suggest unmixing jars of mixed nuts.

By the way, they hate that. Nuts are very social creatures. *nod*

She'll be riding six white horses when she comes...

Comon....seriously? You see nothing dirty about that?

I see orgy, bestiality and the word comes makes me giggle.
Well, you would.
You really really need to get laid Wil.

By the way, they hate that. Nuts are very social creatures. *nod*
Well they can socialize with their own damn kind. Whenever I see a cashew and a walnut touching each other, lying seductively side-by-side, it makes me sick to my stomach.

Well they can socialize with their own damn kind. Whenever I see a cashew and a walnut touching each other, lying seductively side-by-side, it makes me sick to my stomach.

Nut bigot! :mad:

Nut bigot! :mad:
And what of the alternative: would you have all nuts jumbled together in an orgy of kernels, seeds and legumes?
You know what the result with all that integration is going to be, don't you? Cross-pollination. Hybridization. The destruction of the noble separation and purity of the species. Cashews on bushes, peanuts in trees, brazil nuts that don't taste like crap; what sort of a world is that to leave for our children?

((By the way, what I do when I have too much spare time is become angry at things that don't make any sense. Mixed nuts being mixed, spheres being too round, the word "Republican-lite," etc))