NationStates Jolt Archive

I figure, you guys basically seem pretty bright, so I'll put it to you to solve this.

It was found in 1912, it's a book full of strange text and and images that nobody seems to be able to decipher; not even the top military and scientific codebreakers. You can pick up some more info on the book here (http://www.voynich.nu/) and here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript).

A couple of pics to give you an idea of exactly what we're dealing with:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Voynich.png
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/79/F75r.jpg/454px-F75r.jpg

So... what the fuck is this shit?

Is this the manuscript Francis Bacon supposedly wrote?

You're thinking of Roger Bacon, and that's only one theory.

It's a hoax.

You're thinking of Roger Bacon, and that's only one theory.

Roger, that's who I meant. Francis is in the late 1500s, right?

It's a hoax.

That or an early attempt of a constructed language.

Either way we wouldn't be able to understand it.

Seeming bright is not the same as being bright.

That or an early attempt of a constructed language.

Either way we wouldn't be able to understand it.

Those are just a couple of possibilities. Some have said that it might be an attempt at writing an Asian language with an invented alphabet. Some guy thought it could be an early German language. I've noticed a couple of similarities to Cyrillic.

That guy who said it to be German also told that German and Hebraic are closely related and the language of God himself.

Wouldn't trust this guy too much.

http://209.85.129.132/search?q=cache:TzHcbvqKVBoJ:fastwalkers.de/downloads/dasvoynichmanuskript.pdf+Voynich+manuskript+landmann&hl=de&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=de&client=firefox-a

If it would have just be written in early German and would just use a simple letter-exchange code, like Landmann claims, it would be relatively easy to decipher.

Might be some guy fucking about, you know.

Might be some guy fucking about, you know.

I can't accept that. Who goes to that much trouble to fuck about?

I can't accept that. Who goes to that much trouble to fuck about?
Someone unemployed, or generally with a terrible sex life.

I can't accept that. Who goes to that much trouble to fuck about?
For starters, everyone on the Internet nowadays... :p

For that matter, back then a hoax like that would have been the prank of the century...So I'm basically undecided but leaning on a hoax.

For that matter, back then a hoax like that would have been the prank of the century...So I'm basically undecided but leaning on a hoax.

It wasn't discovered until 1912, despite being written around the 15th century. What a waste if time it must of been.

Maybe it's the world's longest knock knock joke?

Maybe it's the world's longest knock knock joke?

The punchline is "Yo Mamma" *nods*.

its the colonels secret recipe!

It looks like an artifact. A 'constructed' language, but not one ever intended to have meaning - just to LOOK like a language.

It passes muster quite well, at first examination - if the language in question is extraordinarily heavy on two or three basic word elements.

The fact that the illustrations seem to be somewhere between 'close, but wrong' and 'wow, what the fuck' suggests that the text was designed to serve a similar purpose to bestiaries - i.e. to LOOK good, add an air of authority and mystery to someone's pronouncements, and to 'represent' rather than 'present'.

It looks like an artifact. A 'constructed' language, but not one ever intended to have meaning - just to LOOK like a language.

It passes muster quite well, at first examination - if the language in question is extraordinarily heavy on two or three basic word elements.

The fact that the illustrations seem to be somewhere between 'close, but wrong' and 'wow, what the fuck' suggests that the text was designed to serve a similar purpose to bestiaries - i.e. to LOOK good, add an air of authority and mystery to someone's pronouncements, and to 'represent' rather than 'present'.

Now now, GnI, you've been warned before about answering logically. Don't let me catch you at it again, y'hear?

Now now, GnI, you've been warned before about answering logically. Don't let me catch you at it again, y'hear?

Sorry.

What I meant to say is: nine ninjas, hamster parachute, Fiddlebottoms.

Sorry.

What I meant to say is: nine ninjas, hamster parachute, Fiddlebottoms.

That's better.

And I thought MY doctor had shitty handwriting.

maybe jus the ramblings of a medieval schizophrenic.
Doubtless he was either burned alive as a witch or canonised as a prophet.

I can just see Dan Brown 'writing' yet another of his turgid rotten cliche-ridden tomes based around this manuscript.

Everyone keeps assuming that it's from earth and from the the writer's current life. Given the leniency they give some far-out ideas (e.g. pretty much every "holy book"), the idea that it's a flashback (think inexplicable deja vu) from a previous lfie on an unknown planet is plausible in comparison!

I doubt it's anything to do with outer space. It's too human.

...but how often do you talk to outer space nonhumans?

It wasn't discovered until 1912, despite being written around the 15th century. What a waste if time it must of been.

Or it was written in 1912 by someone who wanted it to look like it was written in the 15th century. The age estimate is based entirely on the contents, which are easily forged.

It passes muster quite well, at first examination - if the language in question is extraordinarily heavy on two or three basic word elements.


Yeah, I noticed that as well. Fuck, it looks sort of like what I do when I need to invent a word in a nonexistent language. Just say gibberish that inevitably ends up containing a couple dozen different syllables at most, just rearranged. It sounds like a language, and certain sounds crop up more often than others, but it's meaningless. I could probably make something the size of the Voynich manuscript in a day simply by recording myself saying meaningless sounds and then transcribing them.

Yeah, I noticed that as well. Fuck, it looks sort of like what I do when I need to invent a word in a nonexistent language. Just say gibberish that inevitably ends up containing a couple dozen different syllables at most, just rearranged. It sounds like a language, and certain sounds crop up more often than others, but it's meaningless. I could probably make something the size of the Voynich manuscript in a day simply by recording myself saying meaningless sounds and then transcribing them.

maybe someone has already done that - taped your weirdo mutterings, transcribed them then sent them back in time to the 15th Century!
You're the author of The Voynich Manuscript!
arrghhhh!

Okay, so my great great great grandfather and his buddies got high this one time, right...

maybe someone has already done that - taped your weirdo mutterings, transcribed them then sent them back in time to the 15th Century!
You're the author of The Voynich Manuscript!
arrghhhh!

Nah, the "words" I say are longer and more diverse than those in the manuscript.

I also vote "hoax" if we're voting, but it's an interesting case because, at least when I first read about it, frequency analysis to that point was inconclusive, as was forensic examination of the document itself. That's all pretty cool, to say the least. :tongue:

Or it was written in 1912 by someone who wanted it to look like it was written in the 15th century. The age estimate is based entirely on the contents, which are easily forged.

Except, y'know, they confirmed that Georg Baresch owned it in 1639 and mentioned it in a letter he sent.

Someone unemployed, or generally with a terrible sex life.

You seem to know this guy's motives quite a bit. :p

None of us will truly know the motive. It is only truly known to the author/s. Now other mysteries I would like to see solved or at least given decent theory to include The Baigong Pipes:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16871_6-insane-discoveries-that-science-cant-explain.html

These pipes had some purpose and hundreds where driven into a mountain which is thought to be inhospitable to humans...

None of us will truly know the motive. It is only truly known to the author/s. Now other mysteries I would like to see solved or at least given decent theory to include The Baigong Pipes:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16871_6-insane-discoveries-that-science-cant-explain.html

These pipes had some purpose and hundreds where driven into a mountain which is thought to be inhospitable to humans...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baigong_Pipes

'Natural concretionary pipe-like features, which are quite similar to the Baigong Pipes, occur in the Navajo Sandstone and other sandstones of Southwestern United States in the form of hematite "pipes".
...strangely shaped stones, pipe-like features, and other concretionary masses have been observed and described from the Navajo and other Jurassic sandstones within Utah and adjacent states. Brenda Beitler notes the presence of hollow "subhorizontal planar strata-bound pipes" and "vertical pipes", which have been created by the precipitation of hematite within the Navajo Sandstone. In addition, the bleached sandstone seen in the picture of the cave entrance is typical of sandstones, in which natural pipe-like features have been found. The pipe-like features are the result of natural self-organization processes, which occur during the precipitation of iron oxides within sedimentary rocks.'

likely just an herbalist's book that he wrote in a made up code/language to keep others from reading.

Except, y'know, they confirmed that Georg Baresch owned it in 1639 and mentioned it in a letter he sent.

I see a bunch of places saying that but I can't find any indication that the codex that was mentioned was the Voynich Manuscript. The letters are quite nonspecific.

It could be the Voynich Manuscript but it also could be something else entirely.

The picture is obviously the invention of the waterslide.

Sorry.

What I meant to say is: nine ninjas, hamster parachute, Fiddlebottoms.
Are you trying to imply that I am the sort of person who has no idea what the fuck he's doing and would be wrong about what the fick he's doing even if he did?
You're probably right.

Well I'm not much of one for laguage, but I think I can help with that pictograph. So first off the style does not match any classical era I know of. The green looks like it was colored by color pencil. The image(s) look like they were done in pencil or with a fine ink tip. Second, lets turn to the picture it's self. Alright, so I originally saw nude women (not one obvious man in the bunch) in the green spaces. Then I looked closer; green usually represents plants (such as grass and trees), but in this case the green spaces may alude to bodies of water. As I looked closer I noticed the edges around the green spaces that had vertical lines which may represent cliffs or shore lines. Also, the green spaces are linked by curvy lines (in blue); the top of the image is in blue and white maybe to illustrate a waterfall. Also notice some "maidens" seem to be wadeing, one looks to be stepping in, and another looks to be doing the back float (look at her red "lip stick" too). The madines hair style looks out of synch with the presumed era. So both art style, technique, and the maidens hair style puts me somewhere between highly suspect and fake.

How's that for a dissection.

I suspect someone was tripping serious balls.

Fake.

So... what the fuck is this shit?

Lol. Funny joke ;)
Quite boring text though.

Fake.

My avatar is not a fake - it really is my avatar.

Alien Born - Hint.

Probably written by the same guy that lost this on his trip to china...


http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3122542.html?menu=news.quirkies

Probably written by the same guy that lost this on his trip to china...


http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_3122542.html?menu=news.quirkies
It's those goddamned, time-traveling Swiss watchmakers again!
I hate those guys. Just because someone has the ability to tamper with the time-space continuum, they think they've got the right to go around placing products everywhere. It isn't right, I say, it isn't right!

It wasn't discovered until 1912, despite being written around the 15th century. What a waste if time it must of been.
Is that one of those "discovered america" type of discoveries or was it actually completely lost?

Can't they just carbon date it for authenticity? If it's not a hoax then it's about the war of the 2170s

Can't they just carbon date it for authenticity? If it's not a hoax then it's about the war of the 2170s
don't think one can carbon-date books, can you?

Plus it might actually be 15th century manuscript, but someone in Victorian Times washed whatever was there originally off, then wrote this gibberish + pictures. The pictures remind me of Victorian-era art and they did do a lot of forgery in that time, especially mystical tosh such as this. the fact it wasn't 'discovered' until 1912 also makes me think it's a Victorian-era forgery.

(and yes, I do know when Queen Vic died, thank you very much).

don't think one can carbon-date books, can you?

It's organic, so I'd imagine so.

It's organic, so I'd imagine so.
I imagine it wouldn't be too accurate though as it would just tell us when the tree the paper was made from was cut down.

What's the most recent age they can carbon-date to anyway? I know they can't carbon-date beyond ~60,000 years as there's not enough C14 left to be accurate. With a 1/2-life of 5500 years (or thereabouts), I would imagine carbon-dating something just 500 years old would be difficult. Too soon to see a significant difference in C14 surely. Any contamination or environmental increase in C14 during the period the trees were cut down might affect it so much accurate readings couldn't be established.

I could be totally wrong here of course.

None of us will truly know the motive. It is only truly known to the author/s. Now other mysteries I would like to see solved or at least given decent theory to include The Baigong Pipes:

http://www.cracked.com/article_16871_6-insane-discoveries-that-science-cant-explain.html

These pipes had some purpose and hundreds where driven into a mountain which is thought to be inhospitable to humans...The Antikythera Mechanism was actually just figured out apparently:

http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/12/2000-year-old-a.html

OMG!

It... it's... SQUIGGLY LINES!!!!

:tongue:

It's a hoax.It's a prophecy.

I imagine it wouldn't be too accurate though as it would just tell us when the tree the paper was made from was cut down.

What's the most recent age they can carbon-date to anyway? I know they can't carbon-date beyond ~60,000 years as there's not enough C14 left to be accurate. With a 1/2-life of 5500 years (or thereabouts), I would imagine carbon-dating something just 500 years old would be difficult. Too soon to see a significant difference in C14 surely. Any contamination or environmental increase in C14 during the period the trees were cut down might affect it so much accurate readings couldn't be established.

I could be totally wrong here of course.

You can easily carbon-date something that's 500 years old.

I imagine it wouldn't be too accurate though as it would just tell us when the tree the paper was made from was cut down.

What's the most recent age they can carbon-date to anyway? I know they can't carbon-date beyond ~60,000 years as there's not enough C14 left to be accurate. With a 1/2-life of 5500 years (or thereabouts), I would imagine carbon-dating something just 500 years old would be difficult. Too soon to see a significant difference in C14 surely. Any contamination or environmental increase in C14 during the period the trees were cut down might affect it so much accurate readings couldn't be established.

I could be totally wrong here of course.

it is easy to carbon date something 500 years old.

here is the problem with books. simply write it on old paper(yes you can still find 500 year old blank sheets of paper and that failing you can find old dead wood to make the paper from).
for the ink make sure you use ink that was available at the time then burn old paper and mix the ashes of the old paper into the ink. so for
as for things over 60000 years old they use other radioactive isotopes to date the item. uranium lead dating is effective back to 4.5 billion years ago.