NationStates Jolt Archive

All I can say is, it's not looking good (http://news.antiwar.com/2008/12/15/muntadar-al-zeidi-the-shoe-man-of-baghdad/) for him.

All I can say is, it's not looking good (http://news.antiwar.com/2008/12/15/muntadar-al-zeidi-the-shoe-man-of-baghdad/) for him.
"Man throws things at very important figure in the world, suffers as a consequence"

Your article says he could be in jail for seven years, but the AP says different: (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hwK_CSpBxsNuVUEaDuOwmSSCiqGwD953NQI03)
Al-Zeidi was initially taken into custody by Iraqi security and interrogated about whether anybody had paid him to throw his shoes at Bush during a news conference Sunday in Baghdad, according to the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to the media.

He could face charges of insulting a foreign leader and the Iraqi prime minister, who was standing next to Bush. The offense carries a maximum penalty of two years in jail.

Given the protests in his support, and the request for clemency by the Iraqi Union of Journalists, it's unlikely that he'd get a sentence as harsh as two years. Tortured? Don't be ridiculous.

Given the protests in his support, and the request for clemency by the Iraqi Union of Journalists, it's unlikely that he'd get a sentence as harsh as two years. Tortured? Don't be ridiculous.

Yes, I don't think he will be tortured. After all, he'll be (eventually) in an Iraqi prison with Iraqi guards, not in an Gitmo-style lager. Bet he'll be treated with silken gloves - if not downright hero-worshipped.

All I can say is, it's not looking good (http://news.antiwar.com/2008/12/15/muntadar-al-zeidi-the-shoe-man-of-baghdad/) for him.

He won't be tortured.

He's already lapping up the adulation. Even Bush's strongest supporters in Iraq have only gone so far as to describe his actions as "inappropriate".

Actually to Bush's credit he made a point about this being a democracy now so that this guy could do this. George W should have known that he'd be about as popular as a pork chop in a kosher restaurant.
Sigh! Roll on Obama! Hopefully they'll throw flowers at him - out of relief!

Yes, I don't think he will be tortured. After all, he'll be (eventually) in an Iraqi prison with Iraqi guards, not in an Gitmo-style lager. Bet he'll be treated with silken gloves - if not downright hero-worshipped.

According to the BBC he already has broken ribs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7785338.stm

According to the BBC he already has broken ribs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7785338.stm

Ah... Democracy!

He may have gotten injuries when he was being restrained by security.

The big issue is:

Is this an assault (on Bush) or a gesture of political discontent? Was he, in other terms, trying to hit him with these shoes or just lobbing them in his vague direction to express his disgust?

Shit! The morons who beat him won't be popular with their countrymen.....and it's a dangerous path for a puppet government to go down.

He may have gotten injuries when he was being restrained by security.

The big issue is:

Is this an assault (on Bush) or a gesture of political discontent? Was he, in other terms, trying to hit him with these shoes or just lobbing them in his vague direction to express his disgust?

Did seem like he tried to hit Bush.

But Bush is not a person, so there's that.

Did seem like he tried to hit Bush.

But Bush is not a person, so there's that.
...

He also missed which means he is a failure. *nod*

Is this an assault (on Bush) or a gesture of political discontent?
Those two things are not mutually exclusive.
He also missed which means he is a failure. *nod*
Congrats for posting in the right thread this time :tongue:

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

Congrats for posting in the right thread this time :tongue:

I haven't had my coffee yet,. :p

Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

If it transpires he was trying to hit Bush with the shoe, he should in fact go to prison. Assault = bad, mmkay?

If it was an act of protest, he should go home.

The shoes are being kept as evidence? :( I wanted to buy them from eBay.

If it transpires he was trying to hit Bush with the shoe, he should in fact go to prison. Assault = bad, mmkay?

If it was an act of protest, he should go home.

And if it was an act of protest during which he tried to hit Bush with his shoe?

Who wants to bet that this poor man will be tortured? why would he be tortured? they know what he did.

According to the BBC he already has broken ribs
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7785338.stm
it was reported that he was "beaten" outside by Iraqi police.

If it transpires he was trying to hit Bush with the shoe, he should in fact go to prison. Assault = bad, mmkay?

If it was an act of protest, he should go home.
So if I throw something at you, I can say "I'm just protesting" and you will let me walk away? reguardless whether or not I hit you?

why would he be tortured? they know what he did.

To establish whether he was working alone or not.

The shoes are being kept as evidence? :( I wanted to buy them from eBay.I believe someone is offering a million for them.

To establish whether he was working alone or not.

Considering he handed his cameraman a note saying "it's a good day to become a martyr"?

I believe someone is offering a million for them.
Awwww, I can't afford that. :(



Considering he handed his cameraman a note saying "it's a good day to become a martyr"?

Yeah? I guess he figures he's going to be tortured, too.

it was reported that he was "beaten" outside by Iraqi police.

I heard it was secret service.

I heard it was secret service.

could be. the anchor said "he was tackled by secret service and removed by both the secret service and Iraqi police where he was beaten outside."

I doubt he'll be tortured. Better to simply apply the law as it stands. This man is guilty of attempted assault. Six months sounds about right.

Evidently that young man is now being tortured and has some broken bones, and I heard one report of him having some internal bleeding.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/12...ower-being-tortured/ (http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/shoe-thrower-being-tortured/)
http://raedinthemiddle.blogspo...-broken-in-jail.html (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2008/12/montathers-hand-broken-in-jail.html)
http://www.roadstoiraq.com/200...camp-cropper-prison/ (http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2008/12/16/urgent-just-reported-al-zaidi-in-us-run-camp-cropper-prison/)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7785338.stm
http://www.albaghdadia.com/news/

To establish whether he was working alone or not.

You mean there could have been...a second shoer? :eek2:

All I can say is, it's not looking good (http://news.antiwar.com/2008/12/15/muntadar-al-zeidi-the-shoe-man-of-baghdad/) for him.

If this guy had dared do that to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now.

If this guy had dared do that to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now.

Its not much of an improvement though.

Watch my deduction in action!

First fact: If this guy had dared do that to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now.
1. His head is not chopped off, so he did not dare to do this to Saddam Hussein. (Contrapositive)
2. He did dare to do this to George W. Bush (Second fact)
3. THEREFORE George Bush is not Saddam Hussein;
4. THEREFORE torture is completely ethical.

If this guy had dared do that to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now.

So, instead of having his head chopped off, hes not being tortured by the Iraqis.

And this shows you were right how exactly....?

Evidently that young man is now being tortured and has some broken bones, and I heard one report of him having some internal bleeding.

http://firedoglake.com/2008/12...ower-being-tortured/ (http://firedoglake.com/2008/12/15/shoe-thrower-being-tortured/)
http://raedinthemiddle.blogspo...-broken-in-jail.html (http://raedinthemiddle.blogspot.com/2008/12/montathers-hand-broken-in-jail.html)
http://www.roadstoiraq.com/200...camp-cropper-prison/ (http://www.roadstoiraq.com/2008/12/16/urgent-just-reported-al-zaidi-in-us-run-camp-cropper-prison/)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7785338.stm
http://www.albaghdadia.com/news/

Im so glad we invaded Iraq to end the reign of a brutal dictator who tortured his own people.

Then we instituted a democracy who tortures enemies of freedom.

We have taught them well *nod*

Watch my deduction in action!

First fact:
1. His head is not chopped off, so he did not dare to do this to Saddam Hussein. (Contrapositive)
2. He did dare to do this to George W. Bush (Second fact)
3. THEREFORE George Bush is not Saddam Hussein;
4. THEREFORE torture is completely ethical.

I said if this guy had dared do this to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now. You seem to have doubts I dont.

My poin is he never would have dared do that to Dictator Saddam Hussein, I have no doubts of that.

why would he be tortured? they know what he did.
???? He's being tortured BECAUSE they know what he did. I hope you're not one of those people who thinks torture is for the purpose of gathering information.

I said if this guy had dared do this to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now. You seem to have doubts I dont.

My poin is he never would have dared do that to Dictator Saddam Hussein, I have no doubts of that.

I havent seen anyone argue this. Is your point simply that Bush is a better person than Saddam? Or is there some other point Im missing. Because right now, you dont seem to have one.

If he'd thrown shoes at Assad or A-Muddy-Dinner-Jacket, he'd be lucky if that were all that happened to him. :D

Too bad, chump. Should have picked somewhere else to act like an idiot.

If he'd thrown shoes at Assad or A-Muddy-Dinner-Jacket, he'd be lucky if that were all that happened to him. :D

Too bad, chump. Should have picked somewhere else to act like an idiot.

And the champion of freedom comes on and defends the torture of political enemies.

Tell me, how is torturing political dissidents different from what Saddam Hussein did?


Not that I expect an answer to this.

I said if this guy had dared do this to Dictator Saddam Hussein his head would have been chopped off by now. You seem to have doubts I dont.
No, I don't have any doubts. I just don't see how what would have happened under Hussein is relevant to what people are saying is actually happening.

it was rather unprofessional for a reporter to do... maybe Mr Bush should retaliate with some whoopee cushions!

SNIP

credible sources galore!

it was rather unprofessional for a reporter to do... maybe Mr Bush should retaliate with some whoopee cushions!



credible sources galore!

Quoting the news agency that employed the man isn't credible. I would assume since they are the closest to him they would probably know better than say, CNN.

Being allegedly injured is not the same thing as being tortured. Even if it's true, he could have just as easily been injured because he was wrestled to the floor by everyone around him and then security. That's what to expect when you assault a world leader and start an altercation at a news conference.

Perhaps he could have shouted instead, "Help, help! I'm being repressed!"

No, I don't have any doubts. I just don't see how what would have happened under Hussein is relevant to what people are saying is actually happening.

My point is he would dare do that to President Bush but would never dare do that to dictator Saddam Hussein. My last post on this subject, this thread.

Being allegedly injured is not the same thing as being tortured. Even if it's true, he could have just as easily been injured because he was wrestled to the floor by everyone around him and then security. That's what to expect when you assault a world leader and start an altercation at a news conference.

Perhaps he could have shouted instead, "Help, help! I'm being repressed!"

Im not inclined to believe the Iraqi government's protests of innocence. And Im less inclinded to believe George Bush's protests of innocence on behalf of the Iraqi government.

My point is he would dare do that to President Bush but would never dare do that to dictator Saddam Hussein.

So, whats your point exactly? That people are more scared of Saddam than Bush? Besides, how do you know he wouldnt do it to Saddam?


My last post on this subject, this thread.

Good, because youre not making sense.

It's the simplest, basest, STUPIDEST kind of reasoning: "Saddam was bad, ergo the war was good". Guess what: Bush is bad. Would a war to remove him be good?

Would a war to remove him be good?

Would you please?

Would you please?

>.>

<.<

Psst. Rhetorical question. You didn't help my argument there...

>.>

<.<

Psst. Rhetorical question. You didn't help my argument there...

And here you were getting my hopes up.

Im not inclined to believe the Iraqi government's protests of innocence. And Im less inclinded to believe George Bush's protests of innocence on behalf of the Iraqi government.

You and others are stating as fact that the Iraqi government and Bush would undoubtedly sanction something that makes them look bad, doesn't benefit them, is illegal, and turns this guy into a martyr. That's a bit more than skepticism.

You and others are stating as fact that the Iraqi government and Bush would undoubtedly sanction something that makes them look bad, doesn't benefit them, is illegal, and turns this guy into a martyr. That's a bit more than skepticism.

Bush has been doing just that for eight years. Why would he stop now?

You and others are stating as fact that the Iraqi government and Bush would undoubtedly sanction something that makes them look bad, doesn't benefit them, is illegal, and turns this guy into a martyr. That's a bit more than skepticism.

Good point.

Bush has been doing just that for eight years. Why would he stop now?

Valid counterpoint.

It's the simplest, basest, STUPIDEST kind of reasoning: "Saddam was bad, ergo the war was good". Guess what: Bush is bad. Would a war to remove him be good?

It's more like "Saddam is evil, and we fought against Saddam, so we must be good. Since we're good, everything we do is good. Or at least done with pure intentions." It follows from the simplistic good/evil dichotomy. It's a rather accurate descriptor of the thinking by lots of people here in the States.

It's more like "Saddam is evil, and we fought against Saddam, so we must be good. Since we're good, everything we do is good. Or at least done with pure intentions." It follows from the simplistic good/evil dichotomy. It's a rather accurate descriptor of the thinking by lots of people here in the States.

Such a sad state of affairs.

Bush has been doing just that for eight years. Why would he stop now?
Ha ha. I assume that Bush is just stupid and not actively trying to destroy the world. That something is illegal and terrible PR wouldn't in itself persuade him to do something, it just fails too often to dissuade him from doing it.

considering Iraq's current government he will likely disappear shortly until his remains are dug up in a decade or two. And it will likely be blamed on some militia

Evidently that young man is now being tortured and has some broken bones, and I heard one report of him having some internal bleeding.
As I said, not at all surprising.

"Ah I will throw my shoes at this guy, srsly he's a total pussy"
*utter crap beaten out of him*
"Argh my face :("
"JUSTICE IS SERVED!"

As I said, not at all surprising.

"Ah I will throw my shoes at this guy, srsly he's a total pussy"
*utter crap beaten out of him*
"Argh my face :("
"JUSTICE IS SERVED!"

Youre dialouges always amuse me.

You know, I'd bet he had a pretty fair idea of what would happen to him after pulling this off. I wish the mainstream journalism corps in America had 1/10 of the integrity this guy had. Instead they jump into bed with politicians so they can get their "exclusives" so they can lob softballs. Bring that guy over to the US, we need him.

You know, I'd bet he had a pretty fair idea of what would happen to him after pulling this off. I wish the mainstream journalism corps in America had 1/10 of the integrity this guy had. Instead they jump into bed with politicians so they can get their "exclusives" so they can lob softballs. Bring that guy over to the US, we need him.

There are many problems with the American press. That they do not throw shoes is not one of them.